Microsoft placing ads in Windows 11 File Explorer.

Colstan

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I realize this is like tossing marbles at the village idiot, but Microsoft has implemented a feature in the latest developer build of Windows 11 to place advertisements directly into File Explorer. Microsoft claims that this was "not intended to be published externally". I would note that they aren't denying that this will eventually become a standard part of Windows 11 in the future. Most of us know that Windows already ships with telemetry spying, continues to find ways to herd users toward using Edge instead of alternate browsers, and has a history of peppering Windows with various helpful suggestions like subscriptions for OneDrive. Now, they appear to be working on adverts for when Windows users are working with their personal files. Microsoft already has a captive audience, but outside of tech nerds, I have to wonder how much backlash they will get among the general populace if they go through with this plan.

Like many Mac users, I have at times considered building my own PC. Even if we take out the inefficient and power hungry nature of PC hardware, it's stunts like this that remind me why I am a Mac user. Apple doesn't get everything right, the whole CSAM debacle has apparently been swept under the rug, but at least I don't have my Mac blatantly spying on me, monetizing every website and file I click on, and serving me advertisements based upon what some bot thinks I might be interested in.

vF8yvpm.png
 

JayAgostino

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I realize this is like tossing marbles at the village idiot, but Microsoft has implemented a feature in the latest developer build of Windows 11 to place advertisements directly into File Explorer. Microsoft claims that this was "not intended to be published externally". I would note that they aren't denying that this will eventually become a standard part of Windows 11 in the future. Most of us know that Windows already ships with telemetry spying, continues to find ways to herd users toward using Edge instead of alternate browsers, and has a history of peppering Windows with various helpful suggestions like subscriptions for OneDrive. Now, they appear to be working on adverts for when Windows users are working with their personal files. Microsoft already has a captive audience, but outside of tech nerds, I have to wonder how much backlash they will get among the general populace if they go through with this plan.

Like many Mac users, I have at times considered building my own PC. Even if we take out the inefficient and power hungry nature of PC hardware, it's stunts like this that remind me why I am a Mac user. Apple doesn't get everything right, the whole CSAM debacle has apparently been swept under the rug, but at least I don't have my Mac blatantly spying on me, monetizing every website and file I click on, and serving me advertisements based upon what some bot thinks I might be interested in.

vF8yvpm.png
It's been gone for four months now. I don't think it'll ever make a return (and hopefully it stays that way).

At least Microsoft is finally adding tabs to File Explorer!
 

Colstan

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At least Microsoft is finally adding tabs to File Explorer!
Let me preface this by saying that I haven't regularly used Windows since I switched to the Mac in 2005, when I purchased my first Mac mini, which also happened to be one of the last PowerPC models. WinXP was the last version of Windows that I used on my daily machine. Even then, back before I considered using alternatives, I tried to get the interface out of the way as much as possible. I hated the WinXP Ronald McDonald interface and tweaked it to make it look and work like Windows 95/98. My favorite version of Windows, if one can have a favorite, was "Chicago", the code name for the beta version of Windows 95. There were certain changes made before final release, probably for compatibility purposes, that appeared to bog things down.

I am fortunate in that I can chose whichever platform I want and not have to worry about other operating systems. Sure, I'd like access to a handful of Windows-only games, but other than that, I'm perfectly happy with using macOS. Still, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy trying out the alternatives, from time to time. Occasionally, I've used various Linux distros inside a VM. I can see why the orderly chaos appeals to some folks. Seeing how I prefer macOS, the only distro that I would have remotely considered switching to was Elementary OS, and seeing how that team recently imploded, I don't think I'd consider switching. Sure, Fedora and Ubuntu aren't going anywhere, but the slapdash nature of Linux isn't for me.

Which brings me back to Windows. Out of curiosity, I've tried most major versions of Windows, upon release. I haven't been forced to use a Microsoft operating systems since WinXP, but have tried up to Win11 and everything between. Never once has a new version of Windows tempted me. As I said, I would like access to a handful of Windows-only games; I'm still using a 2018 Intel Mac mini as my daily machine, and have played an occasional game through Boot Camp. I haven't had Windows 10 installed since August of last year, so even when factoring computer games in the equation, I rarely need it, and despite reputation there are plenty of excellent games on the Mac.

A few months ago, I modified a Windows 11 ISO to bypass the TPM requirements in order to install it inside Boot Camp. I have no need for Win11, but wanted to give the latest from Redmond a shot. As many folks on this forum have pointed out, a Windows PC is built using an antiquated software stack defined in the 1980s, atop an archaic CPU architecture rooted in the 1970s. It's a crumbling facade, a rotten foundation that's slowly collapsing under its own weight. Apple gets a lot of guff for leaving old technologies behind, but it's ultimately better for the ecosystem, developers, professionals, and the average user.

My experience with Win11 was much like with the other versions of Windows that I have tried. It feels to me like Microsoft is constantly trying to play catch-up with macOS, with half-baked features that the Mac had years ago, minus the refinement and quality that we've come to expect from Apple. As a Mac user, I take for granted many of the small things that makes a Mac enjoyable to use. Not having to worry about drivers from a dozen vendors, anti-virus, forced system updates, hacks to disable telemetry spying, poorly hidden baked-in advertising, timed activation, jumping through hoops to change system defaults, and the various other annoyances Microsoft has forced upon their users are things that I am reminded of whenever using Windows, and it seems to get worse with each new version.

Every once in a while I consider building a custom PC, just for gaming; I have the resources and knowhow. However, when I actually give Windows a fair shot, I realize that it isn't worth the bother, never mind all of the issues with PC hardware, such as precarious BIOS updates, long-term driver support, device longevity, questionable warranty coverage, heat and noise, power usage, etc. Apple spoils us with the Mac experience, things that require substantial attention with a Windows PC aren't a second thought on the Mac. Even aspects where the PC is perceived to be more versatile, such as configuration choices, price differential, and games selection are overblown in favor of PC, mainly based upon the opinions of partisans who have an agenda.

In my mind, Windows feels like it's always a few years behind macOS, and that's specifically new features while disregarding all of the leftover cruft that middle-management insists upon. Still, it's always good to have options, stagnation is the enemy of innovation. Apple isn't perfect, but in my opinion, the Mac experience is unrivaled.
 

Cmaier

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Let me preface this by saying that I haven't regularly used Windows since I switched to the Mac in 2005, when I purchased my first Mac mini, which also happened to be one of the last PowerPC models. WinXP was the last version of Windows that I used on my daily machine. Even then, back before I considered using alternatives, I tried to get the interface out of the way as much as possible. I hated the WinXP Ronald McDonald interface and tweaked it to make it look and work like Windows 95/98. My favorite version of Windows, if one can have a favorite, was "Chicago", the code name for the beta version of Windows 95. There were certain changes made before final release, probably for compatibility purposes, that appeared to bog things down.

I am fortunate in that I can chose whichever platform I want and not have to worry about other operating systems. Sure, I'd like access to a handful of Windows-only games, but other than that, I'm perfectly happy with using macOS. Still, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy trying out the alternatives, from time to time. Occasionally, I've used various Linux distros inside a VM. I can see why the orderly chaos appeals to some folks. Seeing how I prefer macOS, the only distro that I would have remotely considered switching to was Elementary OS, and seeing how that team recently imploded, I don't think I'd consider switching. Sure, Fedora and Ubuntu aren't going anywhere, but the slapdash nature of Linux isn't for me.

Which brings me back to Windows. Out of curiosity, I've tried most major versions of Windows, upon release. I haven't been forced to use a Microsoft operating systems since WinXP, but have tried up to Win11 and everything between. Never once has a new version of Windows tempted me. As I said, I would like access to a handful of Windows-only games; I'm still using a 2018 Intel Mac mini as my daily machine, and have played an occasional game through Boot Camp. I haven't had Windows 10 installed since August of last year, so even when factoring computer games in the equation, I rarely need it, and despite reputation there are plenty of excellent games on the Mac.

A few months ago, I modified a Windows 11 ISO to bypass the TPM requirements in order to install it inside Boot Camp. I have no need for Win11, but wanted to give the latest from Redmond a shot. As many folks on this forum have pointed out, a Windows PC is built using an antiquated software stack defined in the 1980s, atop an archaic CPU architecture rooted in the 1970s. It's a crumbling facade, a rotten foundation that's slowly collapsing under its own weight. Apple gets a lot of guff for leaving old technologies behind, but it's ultimately better for the ecosystem, developers, professionals, and the average user.

My experience with Win11 was much like with the other versions of Windows that I have tried. It feels to me like Microsoft is constantly trying to play catch-up with macOS, with half-baked features that the Mac had years ago, minus the refinement and quality that we've come to expect from Apple. As a Mac user, I take for granted many of the small things that makes a Mac enjoyable to use. Not having to worry about drivers from a dozen vendors, anti-virus, forced system updates, hacks to disable telemetry spying, poorly hidden baked-in advertising, timed activation, jumping through hoops to change system defaults, and the various other annoyances Microsoft has forced upon their users are things that I am reminded of whenever using Windows, and it seems to get worse with each new version.

Every once in a while I consider building a custom PC, just for gaming; I have the resources and knowhow. However, when I actually give Windows a fair shot, I realize that it isn't worth the bother, never mind all of the issues with PC hardware, such as precarious BIOS updates, long-term driver support, device longevity, questionable warranty coverage, heat and noise, power usage, etc. Apple spoils us with the Mac experience, things that require substantial attention with a Windows PC aren't a second thought on the Mac. Even aspects where the PC is perceived to be more versatile, such as configuration choices, price differential, and games selection are overblown in favor of PC, mainly based upon the opinions of partisans who have an agenda.

In my mind, Windows feels like it's always a few years behind macOS, and that's specifically new features while disregarding all of the leftover cruft that middle-management insists upon. Still, it's always good to have options, stagnation is the enemy of innovation. Apple isn't perfect, but in my opinion, the Mac experience is unrivaled.

I was a windows expert up through XP. Even had a version of NT running on a PowerPC Mac. I still have to use windows for work, but i manage to avoid it as much as possible because I find it painful. Too many different and competing user-interface conventions, even within the OS itself. Settings spread out all over the place. Etc.

MacOS was an easy transition for me in the leopard days because i was already very proficient at the Unix command line (having used Solaris, netBSD, and eventually Linux for work), so I always had that safety net until I figured out all the key bindings and UI conventions.

Anyway, Windows is good for what it is - they focussed on supporting as much hardware as possible and being as backwards compatible as possible. Huge market for that. Those just aren’t my priorities.
 

Hrafn

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I was a windows expert up through XP. Even had a version of NT running on a PowerPC Mac. I still have to use windows for work, but i manage to avoid it as much as possible because I find it painful. Too many different and competing user-interface conventions, even within the OS itself. Settings spread out all over the place. Etc.

MacOS was an easy transition for me in the leopard days because i was already very proficient at the Unix command line (having used Solaris, netBSD, and eventually Linux for work), so I always had that safety net until I figured out all the key bindings and UI conventions.

Anyway, Windows is good for what it is - they focussed on supporting as much hardware as possible and being as backwards compatible as possible. Huge market for that. Those just aren’t my priorities.
I'll use whatever I have to for work, but still use a Mac at home because I can.
 

JayAgostino

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As many folks on this forum have pointed out, a Windows PC is built using an antiquated software stack defined in the 1980s, atop an archaic CPU architecture rooted in the 1970s. It's a crumbling facade, a rotten foundation that's slowly collapsing under its own weight. Apple gets a lot of guff for leaving old technologies behind, but it's ultimately better for the ecosystem, developers, professionals, and the average user.
Microsoft has always been held at gunpoint by enterprise users (and you could probably throw gamers into the mix). Not only do they make up most of Windows' userbase, but they need to be able to run programs from versions of Windows as old as Windows 95. It's why the government and the military use Windows.
 

Colstan

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I still have to use windows for work, but i manage to avoid it as much as possible because I find it painful. Too many different and competing user-interface conventions, even within the OS itself. Settings spread out all over the place. Etc.
What's remarkable is how using modern Windows is like a digital archeological dig. My initial impressions of Win11 were relatively positive. It "borrows" some elements from the Mac, as is tradition, and seemed to be an attempt to overhaul the UI in a positive direction. Even though most hardcore PC users have never used macOS, they hate Win11 because it's too Mac-like, which I took as a good sign. However, that fresh coat of paint isn't even skin deep. We've seen folks complaining about the Ventura "System Settings" redesign, but that was necessary given how many settings have been added over the years. Using Mojave, I had no problem finding what I need using muscle memory, but with Monterey, I have started to use the search function. I haven't tried the new Ventura System Preferences replacement, which is still being actively refined, but a change needed to be made.

Comparatively, the Windows 11 equivalent is a nightmare. Assuming you can't find what you want in the laundry list that Microsoft has crammed together, you'll still have to bust out Control Panel for a number of things. Device Manager is dredged from the Carboniferous epoch. As someone who prefers using dark mode, it's even worse, because most of these older interfaces don't support it.

Essentially, you can be using Win11, then suddenly thrust back into Win8, then bounced to Win10, sidetracked to Win98 SE, then right back to the future with the "Sun Valley 2" update. A brave adventurer found crustaceous leftovers from Windows 3.1 while spelunking deep within the dark recesses of Windows 11's interior. It's a middle-manager's dream scenario: lifetime employment through mediocrity. Meanwhile, Apple has intentionally brought back Clarus the Dogcow because of fun whimsy, not because some spreadsheet written in 1985 requires it.

Windows remains a human factors engineering abomination.

Anyway, Windows is good for what it is - they focussed on supporting as much hardware as possible and being as backwards compatible as possible. Huge market for that. Those just aren’t my priorities.
I get why they do it, but it's still a completely inelegant solution. Windows atop x86 is a layer cake of inefficiencies, a Matryoshka doll of passableness. As someone with mild OCD, I find it entirely unpleasant.

"The only problem with Microsoft is that they just have no taste."
-Steve Jobs

As a CPU architect, do you relate to where I'm coming from, with Apple's RISC+UNIX approach to desktop computing? In my mind, there's a certain elegance within, whereas the Windows/x86 approach is the kitchen sink with complementary monkey wrench and plunger. It's not something that can be quantified with a metric or benchmark, but still apparent, nonetheless.
 

Cmaier

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What's remarkable is how using modern Windows is like a digital archeological dig. My initial impressions of Win11 were relatively positive. It "borrows" some elements from the Mac, as is tradition, and seemed to be an attempt to overhaul the UI in a positive direction. Even though most hardcore PC users have never used macOS, they hate Win11 because it's too Mac-like, which I took as a good sign. However, that fresh coat of paint isn't even skin deep. We've seen folks complaining about the Ventura "System Settings" redesign, but that was necessary given how many settings have been added over the years. Using Mojave, I had no problem finding what I need using muscle memory, but with Monterey, I have started to use the search function. I haven't tried the new Ventura System Preferences replacement, which is still being actively refined, but a change needed to be made.

Comparatively, the Windows 11 equivalent is a nightmare. Assuming you can't find what you want in the laundry list that Microsoft has crammed together, you'll still have to bust out Control Panel for a number of things. Device Manager is dredged from the Carboniferous epoch. As someone who prefers using dark mode, it's even worse, because most of these older interfaces don't support it.

Essentially, you can be using Win11, then suddenly thrust back into Win8, then bounced to Win10, sidetracked to Win98 SE, then right back to the future with the "Sun Valley 2" update. A brave adventurer found crustaceous leftovers from Windows 3.1 while spelunking deep within the dark recesses of Windows 11's interior. It's a middle-manager's dream scenario: lifetime employment through mediocrity. Meanwhile, Apple has intentionally brought back Clarus the Dogcow because of fun whimsy, not because some spreadsheet written in 1985 requires it.

Windows remains a human factors engineering abomination.


I get why they do it, but it's still a completely inelegant solution. Windows atop x86 is a layer cake of inefficiencies, a Matryoshka doll of passableness. As someone with mild OCD, I find it entirely unpleasant.

"The only problem with Microsoft is that they just have no taste."
-Steve Jobs

As a CPU architect, do you relate to where I'm coming from, with Apple's RISC+UNIX approach to desktop computing? In my mind, there's a certain elegance within, whereas the Windows/x86 approach is the kitchen sink with complementary monkey wrench and plunger. It's not something that can be quantified with a metric or benchmark, but still apparent, nonetheless.

Absolutely. I just wish apple would return to some of these principles more forcefully. In the old days, almost anything you could do with the gui you could also do with the command line. While most people wouldn’t actually ever use the command line, designing that way lends itself to an elegant architecture. When something went wrong, you could always find a log file somewhere. Now a lot of stuff just happens magically, but when it goes wrong you can’t tell why. Still miles ahead of Windows. And the modularity of MacOS/iOS/iPadOS/etc. should continue to serve them well for a long time.
 

Runs For Fun

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I'm full time macOS since I got my Mac Studio. Before that I was mostly using Linux. The only Windows computer I have now is my work computer. I really don't miss Windows one bit. Any time I have to use it, the interface always feels "cheap" and inconsistent. macOS is honestly a pleasure to use. And I can still use a lot of the command line utilities that I used on Linux natively.
 

Colstan

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Absolutely. I just wish apple would return to some of these principles more forcefully. In the old days, almost anything you could do with the gui you could also do with the command line. While most people wouldn’t actually ever use the command line, designing that way lends itself to an elegant architecture. When something went wrong, you could always find a log file somewhere. Now a lot of stuff just happens magically, but when it goes wrong you can’t tell why. Still miles ahead of Windows. And the modularity of MacOS/iOS/iPadOS/etc. should continue to serve them well for a long time.
Much like @Runs For Fun, I'm full-time macOS; I have been since I got the late 2005 Mac mini, which featured a 1.5Ghz G4 that was stealth-launched by Apple and never officially announced, not even with a press release. This is also the experience where I learned to never purchase a Mac with a previous generation ISA after Apple announces a switch. I think I got at most three years out of it before I purchased an Intel Mac mini. I also learned not to trust rumors, because Apple Insider claimed that the Mac mini would be discontinued in 2007, and instead of waiting for the Core 2 Duo version, I bought a Core Solo, only to swap out the CPU for a T7600 2.33Ghz Core 2 Duo later, cursing my purchasing decisions, because I believed a rumor site. I was new to Apple rumors, and it took time to adjust to their unique methods, and how much bullshit tends to swirl around rumor websites.

The PC guys have always been much easier to divine, but a lot less fun because the anticipation is never there; we know months or years ahead of time what is going to be released from the likes of Intel, Nvidia, and AMD. Apple historically keeps a lid on it. I would note that Apple Insider pulled the article despite claiming it was true for years, and never acknowledged their error. Fifteen years later, the Mac mini is doing great and selling quite well. I'm currently on my fourth model.

To @Cmaier's point and the command line matching a GUI interaction, as I said, I haven't been a regular Windows user in nearly 17 years. For the most part, I've had no issues finding computer games to play on my Mac. If you like RPG, Strategy, or Simulation, then those titles are abundant on the Mac. However, there are a couple of PC games that I wanted to play, so I put Win10 on my 2018 Mac mini using Boot Camp last Summer to play those handful of games. I am fortunate to have an abundance of head-hair, because I was yanking it out by the fistful while trying to get my RX 580 eGPU working properly under Windows. Apple doesn't officially support eGPUs under Boot Camp, so you have to employ various hacks and workarounds. The worst of which were changing, adding, and modifying various Registry keys.

I had forgotten what a total abomination the Registry is and how there are zero ways to edit it without potentially deep-sixing your entire Windows install. Even before dealing with hackflags to get eGPUs to work, there are plenty of other low-level garbage that can't be easily shutoff, intentionally so by Microsoft. Having to use Rufus to eliminate Microsoft account requirements and privacy questions to simply do a non-invasive install of Windows 11 is ridiculous. Then, once you get Microsoft's harpy of an operating system installed, you need a debloater to rid yourself of the other privacy-invading garbage and spyware that they install without permission.

I appreciate the work that these folks put into this, but it shouldn't be necessary to deal with in the first place. This is why appreciate Apple's privacy policy which is written in English and you don't need @Cmaier levels of legal knowledge to decipher it. While Apple's dedication to privacy is admirable, the side effect is that it makes it much simpler to deal with unwanted system settings, because they don't exist. Unlike Apple, Microsoft has to hide everything they are doing under the hood, hoping users won't notice. Between the invasive built-in spyware, attempts to monetize every ounce of customer data, and historical undying revenants like the Registry, it's the perfect storm of malignant software design.

All of this just to play a handful of PC games. After I finished up with those specific titles, I banished Windows from my Mac mini, and haven't considered reinstalling Windows since. I can live without a handful of PC-only games when I switch to Apple Silicon. Not being able to boot into Windows may be a blessing in disguise, at least in regards to dealing with the never-ending piles of bloat that Microsoft manages to inflict upon the market. I haven't even mentioned the spycraft from third-party drivers or the likes of Google Chrome. So, even though I'm still using an Intel Mac and can theoretically still benefit marginally from being able to boot natively into Windows, in practice, I won't be missing anything once I switch to Apple Silicon. Now, if Apple would kindly release the M3 generation of Macs...
 
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throAU

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I was a windows expert up through XP. Even had a version of NT running on a PowerPC Mac. I still have to use windows for work, but i manage to avoid it as much as possible because I find it painful. Too many different and competing user-interface conventions, even within the OS itself. Settings spread out all over the place. Etc.

I run and administer an enterprise windows network for day job because I have to.

I also have a gaming pc running windows because it has to for compatibility reasons (hopefully not much longer given the progress with proton on Linux).

I spent my own money on macs because I want to. Because it’s just so much nicer to work with.
 
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