Transgender, a Challenge for the Conservative Mindset

[Huntn]

Was listening to a story this morning on NPR from the mother of a transgender child who took their biological daughter to be evaluated. They were told by the psychiatrist this might be a phase or their child might be transgender, to humor her with how she wanted to dress or cut their hair and to come back in a year. She said they took their son to the store and bought him boy clothes and had never seen him so happy. A year later they went back to see the doctor who told them, their son was transgender and to support him because unsupported, suppressed transgender children have high suicide rates.

So on one hand, we have the informed view, and on the other we have the Christian knuckle draggers* who have so much trouble with this issue because it does not conform to their simplistic view of their existence, they want to charge responsible parents with child abuse?

This is where ignorance sets us way back, why the conservative mindset appears to be a inference to our species advancement. The real issue is politicians who actually believe their rubbish or cater to STUPID to keep themselves in office.

* not implying all Christians are idiots.

 

[Joe]

Transgendered are the new boogie man for conservatives. It used to be the gays, but now that gays can marry and they see that the sky hasn't fallen they have moved on to trans folks.

They make a point when it comes to trans in sports. I get that. They just go about it the wrong way. Don't be a hateful douchebag about it and maybe people will listen to you.

If I took Greg Abbott seriously I would think there is a whole team of trans athletes at my local HS just looking to take over and win all the State titles and leave the poor little girls in the dust. But that is not the case. I don't think I have ever come across a trans athlete in my 30+ years of watching HS athletics in Texas. I am sure they are out there somewhere, but I just haven't come across them because its not a huge issue like conservatives make it out to be.

What I have noticed over the last 30+ years is an increase in boys joining the dance teams that were traditionally all female. Most people don't care for the most part.

 

[Renzatic]

It used to be the gays, but now that gays can marry and they see that the sky hasn't fallen they have moved on to trans folks.

Depending on how Roe v. Wade fares in front of this new SCOTUS, even that could be considered temporary. All laws are currently open to Christian conservative reinterpretation.

 

[Herdfan]

Was listening to a story this morning on NPR from the mother of a transgender child who took their biological daughter to be evaluated. They were told by the psychiatrist this might be a phase or their child might be transgender, to humor her with how she wanted to dress or cut their hair and to come back in a year. She said they took their son to the store and bought him boy clothes and had never seen him so happy. A year later they went back to see the doctor who told them, their son was transgender and to support him because unsupported, suppressed transgender children have high suicide rates.

I think the parents did the responsible thing. They waited to see. They didn't have an agenda and seemed to have the child's best interests in mind.

My concern is parents who jump the gun because a boy likes to play with dolls or a girl who likes to play with building blocks and all of a sudden the kid is on puberty blockers.

I don't think I have ever come across a trans athlete in my 30+ years of watching HS athletics in Texas. I am sure they are out there somewhere, but I just haven't come across them because its not a huge issue like conservatives make it out to be.

Not yet. Give it some time as it is happening. Here is an example from Connecticut:

I Was the Fastest Girl in Connecticut. But Transgender Athletes Made it an Unfair Fight.

It’s discouraging that the federal district court has decided that these experiences—these lost opportunities—simply don’t matter.

adflegal.org

 

[ronntaylor]

Not yet. Give it some time as it is happening. Here is an example from Connecticut:

with the expected link to a right-wing attack group, in this instance, the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF). Yeah, they don't seemed biased:

Founded by some 30 leaders of the Christian Right, the Alliance Defending Freedom is a legal advocacy and training group that has supported the recriminalization of sexual acts between consenting LGBTQ adults in the U.S. and criminalization abroad; has defended state-sanctioned sterilization of trans people abroad; has contended that LGBTQ people are more likely to engage in pedophilia; and claims that a “homosexual agenda” will destroy Christianity and society. ADF also works to develop “religious liberty” legislation and case law that will allow the denial of goods and services to LGBTQ people on the basis of religion. Since the election of President Trump, ADF has become one of the most influential groups informing the administration’s attack on LGBTQ rights.

 

[fooferdoggie]

why is it we always see family and freedom in the titles and they ave nothing to do with either of those?

 

[SuperMatt]

Some people cannot restrain themselves from fear mongering when it comes to gay or transgender people. Their own misunderstanding and/or fear is translated into banning transgender people from using the bathroom or participating in sports, or even being taken away from their parents in Texas.

Ever hear of live and let live? Conservative politicians have NOTHING to offer America except hate and scapegoating, and transgender CHILDREN are their latest targets. It is truly disgusting, although quite unsurprising to see their faithful minions following suit in online posts.

 

[Herdfan]

with the expected link to a right-wing attack group, in this instance, the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF). Yeah, they don't seemed biased:

Doesn't matter since she is the author.

Some people cannot restrain themselves from fear mongering when it comes to gay or transgender people. Their own misunderstanding and/or fear is translated into banning transgender people from using the bathroom or participating in sports, or even being taken away from their parents in Texas.

Do you think it is fair to a girl who has trained her whole life for a chance to win a state or NCAA title, only to not win because they have to compete against someone who is for all intents a biological male?

 

[SuperMatt]

Doesn't matter since she is the author.



Do you think it is fair to a girl who has trained her whole life for a chance to win a state or NCAA title, only to not win because they have to compete against someone who is for all intents a biological male?

This is a red herring. There are policies in place that dictate under what circumstances transgender athletes can compete. I’m talking about outright bans that some states have put into place.

Banning all transgender people from competing because of a 1-in-a-million problem is really stupid. But we know that’s not what it’s really about. It’s “othering” transgender, gay, black, or any other minority group. It’s page one in the GOP playbook, and we can see that it works incredibly well to get their voters riled up.

 

[Herdfan]

This is a red herring. There are policies in place that dictate under what circumstances transgender athletes can compete. I’m talking about outright bans that some states have put into place.

Banning all transgender people from competing because of a 1-in-a-million problem is really stupid. But we know that’s not what it’s really about. It’s “othering” transgender, gay, black, or any other minority group. It’s page one in the GOP playbook, and we can see that it works incredibly well to get their voters riled up.

There are policies. That the NCAA ignored a month after they put them in place. The initial policy was to allow the governing body in that sport decide the guidelines. In the case of Thomas, that would be USA Swimming.

Previously the NCAA guidelines were 10 nmol/L for 12 months. The USA Swimming Guidelines are 5 nmol/L for 36 months. The NCAA then set aside its own policy a month after enacting it. Thomas won an NCAA title, so this isn't some made-up issue that won't happen.

As for othering other minority athletes, that is BS. Minorities participate in sports every day without issue. Any nobody cares.

 

[Renzatic]

Not yet. Give it some time as it is happening. Here is an example from Connecticut...

Whether you think trans people competing against people who are biologically of the opposite sex is right, wrong, or somewhere in between, the one thing I can't manage to wrap my head around is why this issue needs to be a concern for the state.

Transsexuals are fairly rare. We're hearing a lot about them at the moment, because they're the current hot topic wedge issue in our ongoing, incredibly stupid culture war. In reality, you'll probably see 1 trans person for every 10,000 female athletes.

...so given their relative rarity, and the low impact their involvement entails overall, why do we need all these laws and regulations?

It seems to me that this is less about addressing an issue, and more about pandering to panic for votes.

 

[Herdfan]

Whether you think trans people competing against people who are biologically of the opposite sex is right, wrong, or somewhere in between, the one thing I can't manage to wrap my head around is why this issue needs to be a concern for the state.

Transsexuals are fairly rare. We're hearing a lot about them at the moment, because they're the current hot topic wedge issue in our ongoing, incredibly stupid culture war. In reality, you'll probably see 1 trans person for every 10,000 female athletes.

...so given their relative rarity, and the low impact their involvement entails overall, why do we need all these laws and regulations?

It seems to me that this is less about addressing an issue, and more about pandering to panic for votes.

You may be correct in that it is being covered more in-depth for political purposes. But that 1/10,000 or whatever the real number is affects more than just that 1 athlete. In the case of Thomas, at the NCAA's alone, in the 3 events that Thomas swam and placed 1st, 5th and 8th, that is 38 girls who placed one place lower than they should have including 3 who didn't make finals and another 3 who were relegated to the Consolation Final instead of the real final. And they way swimming is scored, those 3 didn't have a chance to win the event. (In swimming you can't place outside your final).

And that is just at the NCAA's and doesn't count conference championships. So probably 100 girls didn't get what they earned because of 1 person. Are the rights of 1 superior to the rights of the other 100?

 

[Renzatic]

But that 1/10,000 or whatever the real number is affects more than just that 1 athlete. In the case of Thomas, at the NCAA's alone, in the 3 events that Thomas swam and placed 1st, 5th and 8th, that is 38 girls who placed one place lower than they should have including 3 who didn't make finals and another 3 who were relegated to the Consolation Final instead of the real final.

There's a lot of conjecture there with no basis to stand it on. If Thomas got 1st place in all three events, soundly beating everyone she was competing against, you'd have a more solid argument. As is, she won one event, and placed fairly low in the others, which could be said of any naturally born females competing in the same event.

A transgender woman winning one event isn't indicative of an unfair advantage. You'll have to illustrate a clear bias in their favor over multiple events.

 

[Huntn]

I think the parents did the responsible thing. They waited to see. They didn't have an agenda and seemed to have the child's best interests in mind.

My concern is parents who jump the gun because a boy likes to play with dolls or a girl who likes to play with building blocks and all of a sudden the kid is on puberty blockers.




Not yet. Give it some time as it is happening. Here is an example from Connecticut:

I Was the Fastest Girl in Connecticut. But Transgender Athletes Made it an Unfair Fight.

It’s discouraging that the federal district court has decided that these experiences—these lost opportunities—simply don’t matter.

adflegal.org

I’m trying not to offend anyone, please be kind.

I don’t see average parents jumping any guns, so there really is no need to worry. Think of it this way. Most parents want their biological child to act according to their biological sex. So if your little girl acts tom-boyish no one is going to rush them into a sex change, period. The wise parents will wait and see, allowing their child to dress as they prefer and see if it is a phase, (which is exactly what the doctors said to do in the report) or if not, see to their child’s needs and support them. Emotionally beating them up is asking for heart break or tragedy.

I personally can‘t relate to this, born a boy, always felt like a boy, I can’t imagine how it would feel to feel like I am more like the opposite sex and had to emotionally deal with that. I imagine it feels like you have been cheated. However there is enough variation in average sexuality that there are no walls in place that define behavior although I acknowledge that girls today might have it easier wearing boy clothes than vice a versa especially in grade school.

Back to jumping the gun, we have a nephew who we knew was gay a young age, now a happy adult (lawyer) and a niece who was very boyish all her life and at 18 is finally transitioning and is now our nephew.

And if it can be shown that trans women statistically and reasonably have a physical advantage in sports events than I believe adjustments would have to be made for such competitions to remain fair. What we see now are ignorant conservatives legislating banns across the board based on their prejudices.

 

[Herdfan]

Back to jumping the gun, we have a nephew who we knew was gay a young age,

How young? This young?

 

[Renzatic]

How young? This young?

That's not a good argument, Herd. You're comparing someone's personally made identification against some crazy women using her baby to rack up hits on Tik-Tok.

 

[Huntn]

How young? This young?

Apologies, to be fair, we suspected, not knew when he was about 10.

Of interest concerning children clothing styles in the 19th Century:

​

 

[SuperMatt]

As for othering other minority athletes, that is BS. Minorities participate in sports every day without issue. Any nobody cares.

Brian Flores might have something to say about this.

A bit more info on racism in sports.

Lapchick: Racism reported in sports decreasing but still prevalent

Columnist Richard Lapchick examines how documented acts of racism in sports decreased in both the United States and internationally over the past year, but why it's important that athletes and leagues continue to push for no-tolerance policies.

www.espn.com

Or a bit more:

https://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1156&context=sportslaw

It’s also absurd to excuse anti-trans or anti-gay bigotry by saying “well at least I ain’t racist!"

 

[Herdfan]

That's not a good argument, Herd. You're comparing someone's personally made identification against some crazy women using her baby to rack up hits on Tik-Tok.

I actually agree. But that doesn't stop posters here from finding conservatives doing stupid things and posting them as examples of what all conservatives are doing.

 

[Renzatic]

I actually agree. But that doesn't stop posters here from finding conservatives doing stupid things and posting them as examples of what all conservatives are doing.

It's like all the conservatives on Facebook that scream about their recent hash of book bannings not being as bad as those hypocritical liberals wanting to ban Cat in the Hat.

...was that a big push among liberals? No, it wasn't. I think it was just some local thing brought up by some high strung people. I wouldn't have even remembered it being a thing if it weren't brought up recently.

The thing is, broad brush accusations are part and parcel with arguing politics on the internet. It's annoying, and you should call it out when it happens, but really, the best thing to do is offer up a more compelling, preferably less cheap, counterpoint.