US sues Google for antitrust

[Cmaier]

U.S. Accuses Google of Abusing Monopoly in Ad Technology

The Justice Department’s antitrust lawsuit, which a group of states joined, was the fifth against the company since 2020.

www.nytimes.com

Paywall removed.

 

[dada_dave]

The administration’s efforts are expected to meet fierce resistance in federal courts. Judges have for decades subscribed to a view that antitrust violations should mostly be determined by whether they increase prices for consumers. But Jonathan Kanter, the chief of the Justice Department’s antitrust division, and Lina Khan, the F.T.C. chair, have said they are willing to lose cases that allow them to stretch the boundaries of the law and that put corporate America on notice.

Good. All these companies, including Apple and Amazon and Microsoft et al. should have their wings clipped - at least make it clear they can’t commit the same business practices without resistance. It’s a pity that government will unfortunately lose some/most of these cases - like the Qualcomm one. We do need an antitrust overhaul though I’ve not been ecstatic over the drafts to do so out there. Hard problem but it needs to be addressed.

 

[Colstan]

Good. All these companies, including Apple and Amazon and Microsoft et al. should have their wings clipped - at least make it clear they can’t commit the same business practices without resistance. It’s a pity that government will unfortunately lose some/most of these cases - like the Qualcomm one. We do need an antitrust overhaul though I’ve not been ecstatic over the drafts to do so out there. Hard problem but it needs to be addressed.

For those of us old enough to remember, that didn't do any good with convicted monopolist, Microsoft. I'm not sure anti-trust legislation matters as much in tech, because the industry moves so quickly. This isn't Standard Oil or Bell Telephone. These days, Microsoft is about as threatening as a municipal electricity provider; they're nothing more than an over-glorified utility company. Sure, they make a lot of money and have a large market cap, but they simply have far less relevance than they once did. Remember when IBM mattered? I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens with the latest "big tech" corporations, particularly the internet giants.

 

[dada_dave]

For those of us old enough to remember, that didn't do any good with convicted monopolist, Microsoft. I'm not sure anti-trust legislation matters as much in tech, because the industry moves so quickly. This isn't Standard Oil or Bell Telephone. These days, Microsoft is about as threatening as a municipal electricity provider; they're nothing more than an over-glorified utility company. Sure, they make a lot of money and have a large market cap, but they simply have far less relevance than they once did. Remember when IBM mattered? I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens with the latest "big tech" corporations, particularly the internet giants.

I’m old enough and I would argue that the antitrust trial helped in that case. An unfettered MS could have done a lot of damage to Apple and Google and forestalled a good amount of that change. Further a lot of this is turning into Standard Oil. Google and Facebook basically own the advertising infrastructure that powers the web. That’s a great deal more control than say Apple commanding a large market share with iOS. And far more difficult to shake off with new paradigms or innovations. Invent a new widget that supplants iPhones? Great … they’re still there.

 

[Colstan]

I’m old enough and I would argue that the antitrust trial helped in that case. An unfettered MS could have done a lot of damage to Apple and Google and forestalled a good amount of that change. Further a lot of this is turning into Standard Oil. Google and Facebook basically own the advertising infrastructure that powers the web. That’s a great deal more control than say Apple commanding a large market share with iOS. And far more difficult to shake off with new paradigms or innovations. Invent a new widget that supplants iPhones? Great … they’re still there.

My stance is that I don't think the U.S. government is capable of adequately policing an industry like tech. In the U.S. we're constantly under the boot of the ISPs. Over at the other place, @casperes1996 was surprised when I told him about overage charges, which are rare across the pond. If the feds can't take on the obvious ISP monopolies, then I don't see them accomplishing much anywhere else.

If we lived in a world where politicians cared about the average citizen, and bureaucrats were competent, then I'd whole heartedly support these initiatives. However, that's not the world we live in. It's like asking the carnies to clean up the circus.

 

[dada_dave]

My stance is that I don't think the U.S. government is capable of adequately policing an industry like tech. In the U.S. we're constantly under the boot of the ISPs. Over at the other place, @casperes1996 was surprised when I told him about overage charges, which are rare across the pond. If the feds can't take on the obvious ISP monopolies, then I don't see them accomplishing much anywhere else.

If we lived in a world where politicians cared about the average citizen, and bureaucrats were competent, then I'd whole heartedly support these initiatives. However, that's not the world we live in. It's like asking the carnies to clean up the circus.

I agree that things can be a shitshow here but it’s better to try than to simply accept it. Most attempts at progress fail to improve things or backfire, it’s the nature of humanity. The arc of history may bend towards justice but that can be a long fucking arc and there will be a lot of loop-de-loops in the middle.

 

[Colstan]

I agree that things can be a shitshow here but it’s better to try than to simply accept it. Most attempts at progress fail to improve things or backfire

Do I think that Google is an abusive monopoly? Yes. Do I think the feds should take them to court? Yes. Should they be punished to the maximum extent of the law if found guilty? Yes. Do I think this action will make any difference? Nope.

Don't get me wrong, I would like this antitrust lawsuit to succeed, it's just that the record in such matters is exceedingly poor.

The arc of history may bend towards justice but that can be a long fucking arc and there will be a lot of loop-de-loops in the middle.

I would actually submit that the arc of human history is one of revenge, not justice, but perhaps I am being a cynical sod, in that regard.

 

[dada_dave]

Do I think that Google is an abusive monopoly? Yes. Do I think the feds should take them to court? Yes. Should they be punished to the maximum extent of the law if found guilty? Yes. Do I think this action will make any difference? Nope.

Don't get me wrong, I would like this antitrust lawsuit to succeed, it's just that the record in such matters is exceedingly poor.


I would actually submit that the arc of human history is one of revenge, not justice, but perhaps I am being a cynical sod, in that regard.

It’s a riff on an MLK quote. And if you consider our history, I mean human not just USA, we’re living in a fairly equitable, free period - that we’re better off relatively may be less impressive given where we’re coming from and how far we have to go and that progress hasn’t been either smooth or unidirectional (I mean it’s an MLK quote and we know what happened to him) and can always backslide further and probably will, but nonetheless progress can be and has been made. Make no mistake I think we’ve got some really bad shit ahead and it’s possible we won’t make it through as a society or maybe yikes even as a species. But it’s still worth a shot. Obviously that hinges on things a bit bigger than just this one lawsuit.

 

[thedocbwarren]

Do I think that Google is an abusive monopoly? Yes. Do I think the feds should take them to court? Yes. Should they be punished to the maximum extent of the law if found guilty? Yes. Do I think this action will make any difference? Nope.

Don't get me wrong, I would like this antitrust lawsuit to succeed, it's just that the record in such matters is exceedingly poor.


I would actually submit that the arc of human history is one of revenge, not justice, but perhaps I am being a cynical sod, in that regard.

Agree with you. I think nothing will come of it.