Artemis Mission

AG_PhamD

Elite Member
Posts
1,049
Reaction score
979
I don't quite get where it was said after the launch scrub that there had been no way to test the process of chilling the engines to proper temperature for fueling.

Maybe I could almost imagine a statement that there had been no test: nothing would really surprise me about assumptions made regarding the old cobbled-together bits of SLS and related processes. But that there's "no way to test" does sound off the mark to me.

Anyway... looks like we're in that other mode at this time


Yeah, that doesn’t sound quite right to me either. It’s not like these engines weren’t previously test fired. Apparently it’s a sensor issue that they and they were going to proceed with the launch anyways- I have to imagine they have more than one sensor thus the apparent limited amount of concern expressed. The engines are cooled with the cryogenic fuels, so maybe the cooling systems cannot be truly and fully tested without fueling the rocket- which of course is a major (and inherently dangerous) process.

It’s disappointing to see that the launch will be delayed for at least a month due to problems with the quick disconnect fueling system. I would think this would be very similar if not the same as the shuttle system so it’s a little surprising this would be the issue preventing a launch. That said, it’s my understanding the SLS fuel tank is completely redesigned from the shuttle’s. Plus hydrogen is a notoriously difficult product to deal with given its molecular size and launch delays and rockets are not uncommon, especially when it’s the first launch of a new design.

I’m still not quite sure how this program is considered to be remotely sustainable, at the very least for using refurbished shuttle engines that will not be recovered. The RS-25’s haven’t been made in ages and I question what the plan is when they run out. It probably wouldn’t make sense to restart production. I guess we’ll be lucky if we get past Artemis 2 in my book.

The ULA Vulcan rocket (still in development, Atlas successor) allegedly may eventually have engines that are jettisoned with parachutes and recovered in-air with helicopters. This actually makes a lot of sense considering the amount of fuel aka extra weight required for propulsive landings like SpaceX uses. And helicopters catching items out of the air is nothing new, this is how spy satellite film was recovered back in the day. That said, catching multiple engines presumably with multiple helicopters in likely a very close vicinity sounds extremely dangerous. This would have been an interesting feature for SLS to have explored.

If we are to have a remotely “sustainable” moon program, SLS is clearly not the rocket to do it. And I have some doubts about the practicality of using starship, especially in the near term, as the lunar lander. While starship, if successful, will be a game changer on so many levels, for early moon missions it seems to me unnecessarily large and overly complicated for the task at hand- and quite risky. Sierra Nevada had a very interesting lunar lander concept but evidently got their math wrong- their proposed lander was in fact too heavy to get off the moon.

While I’m thrilled to see us going back to the moon, it’s just very disappointing how much money was spent on a rocket that really doesn’t seem to be the ideally what is needed.

Ultimately, I think commercial customers is the only way to get a remotely efficient moon program in action. Otherwise the design process is beholden to politics, bureaucracy, vastly inflated costs.
 

quagmire

Site Champ
Posts
331
Reaction score
402
I’m still not quite sure how this program is considered to be remotely sustainable, at the very least for using refurbished shuttle engines that will not be recovered. The RS-25’s haven’t been made in ages and I question what the plan is when they run out. It probably wouldn’t make sense to restart production. I guess we’ll be lucky if we get past Artemis 2 in my book.

They are restarting production.

Aerojet Rocketdyne is developing the RS-25E which is the restart production version that will simplify the design and remove the "complex" parts that made the engines reusable( thus lower the cost of the engine).

They only have enough RS-25D's through Artemis 4. They only have enough SRB casings through Artemis 8 I believe.
 

AG_PhamD

Elite Member
Posts
1,049
Reaction score
979
They are restarting production.

Aerojet Rocketdyne is developing the RS-25E which is the restart production version that will simplify the design and remove the "complex" parts that made the engines reusable( thus lower the cost of the engine).

They only have enough RS-25D's through Artemis 4. They only have enough SRB casings through Artemis 8 I believe.

Interesting. That makes a lot more sense to simplify the engines for disposable use. Still would be nice if they could find a way to recycle some of the components (assuming it’s practical and cost effective).

It’s my understanding the solid rocket boosters are new (originally created for the defunct constellation project) and will not be recycled. I can imagine refurbishing rockets that have landed in the ocean probably isn’t entirely practical.
 

quagmire

Site Champ
Posts
331
Reaction score
402
Interesting. That makes a lot more sense to simplify the engines for disposable use. Still would be nice if they could find a way to recycle some of the components (assuming it’s practical and cost effective).

It’s my understanding the solid rocket boosters are new (originally created for the defunct constellation project) and will not be recycled. I can imagine refurbishing rockets that have landed in the ocean probably isn’t entirely practical.

The SRB casings are from the Shuttle. Different fuel mixing and obviously lacking recovery hardware.
 
Top Bottom
1 2