# The George Floyd Trial



## Huntn

Is being televised today. Listening on MSNBC.  I listened to the testimony of the woman witness, whose recording of the event is credited for there even being a trial. It was heart wrenching hearing it. And so far the defense strategy has to been to frame witnesses as being angery, same for the crowd watching a police officer slowly kill a black man as possibly an excuse why the accused former officer Chauvin had a reasonable reason to torture this man to death, a lot of anger around him, made him angery, hence acquittal?  









						George Floyd murder trial begins for ex-officer Derek Chauvin
					

The highly anticipated murder trial of ex-Minneapolis cop Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd got underway Monday amid heavy security inside a barricaded Minnesota courthouse. Opening argume…




					nypost.com


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## Eric

I haven't watched much yet today but the defense not saying a word about the 9 minute video the jurors just watched on the first day was mind blowing, I mean not to even acknowledge it seemed so dismissive of this mans life being snuffed out like that. IMO that will not go over well with the jury.


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## User.45

ericgtr12 said:


> I haven't watched much yet today but the defense not saying a word about the 9 minute video the jurors just watched on the first day was mind blowing, I mean not to even acknowledge it seemed so dismissive of this mans life being snuffed out like that. IMO that will not go over well with the jury.



To me the most shocking thing about the video is actually how Chauvin interfered with the paramedic even checking the carotid pulse on Floyd. Where I come from, that move on its own would be an extra criminal charge.


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## thekev

P_X said:


> Where I come from, that move on its own would be an extra criminal charge.




That's how it should be. Even if Floyd lived, interfering with medical personnel should be an automatic career ender with charges filed and one of those things you never do.


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## User.45

thekev said:


> That's how it should be. Even if Floyd lived, interfering with medical personnel should be an automatic career ender with charges filed and one of those things you never do.



That move also eliminated any doubt about the malice in his behavior.


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## lizkat

ericgtr12 said:


> I haven't watched much yet today but the defense not saying a word about the 9 minute video the jurors just watched on the first day was mind blowing, I mean not to even acknowledge it seemed so dismissive of this mans life being snuffed out like that. IMO that will not go over well with the jury.




I agree.  There's nothing he could say though that would not be offensive or worse, a lie...  _ "It wasn't really quite like it looked?_"


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## Eric

lizkat said:


> I agree.  There's nothing he could say though that would not be offensive or worse, a lie...  _ "It wasn't really quite like it looked?_"



How anyone with an ounce of humanity could watch that poor man pleading for his life while slowly being murdered and not feel something is beyond me, you would have to be a monster. Seriously, it's hard for me not to cry, I have to skip through it.


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## Alli

I listened to much of today's proceedings. Defense is not looking good. Why do they want to create a hostile witness? They were obviously trying with the MMA guy who was at the scene. The testimony from the little girl who shot the video was sad beyond words.


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## SuperMatt

The lawyers for the defense seem like the Minneapolis cops: bullies. Do they think they can bully the jury with their bravado? Nobody seems to be buying the argument that “force is necessary” vs the video of what Chauvin actually did. I think they miscalculated badly and should have taken a guilty plea. That being said, it only takes one person on the jury, and we know there are a lot of people in this country that might give a white officer a pass for killing a black man.


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## Eric

Alli said:


> I listened to much of today's proceedings. Defense is not looking good. Why do they want to create a hostile witness? They were obviously trying with the MMA guy who was at the scene. The testimony from the little girl who shot the video was sad beyond words.



They're going to start calling cops to the stand who will be testifying for the prosecution, it will be interesting to see if they're just as hostile to them.


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## SuperMatt

ericgtr12 said:


> They're going to start calling cops to the stand who will be testifying for the prosecution, it will be interesting to see if they're just as hostile to them.



When you’ve got fellow cops testifying against you, why aren’t you just pleading guilty in hopes of a lighter sentence? I think they are hoping there will be TF racist on the jury who votes to acquit.


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## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> When you’ve got fellow cops testifying against you, why aren’t you just pleading guilty in hopes of a lighter sentence? I think they are hoping there will be TF racist on the jury who votes to acquit.



Was he offered a deal? Otherwise this may be his best hope.


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## SuperMatt

A certain (rube) Goldberg on another popular forum has laid out why, in his “medical” opinion, Floyd was just as likely to have died if he was sitting on his couch. The officer on his neck was only a minor contributing factor to his death. 

Only question: did he have his robe on while he typed it?


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## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> A certain (rube) Goldberg on another popular forum has laid out why, in his “medical” opinion, Floyd was just as likely to have died if he was sitting on his couch. The officer on his neck was only a minor contributing factor to his death.
> 
> Only question: did he have his robe on while he typed it?



They showed the video of everything leading up to it and I don't see how anyone who watched that could ever presume he was about to die minutes later, what a ridiculous defense and I don't think anyone's going to buy it. He may have been high but he wasn't on deaths door by any stretch.

That man's testimony who talked to Chauvin both during and after was heartbreaking, really hard to watch him relive that moment and it obviously had a profound impact on him. The defense was smart not to cross examine him.


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## User.45

SuperMatt said:


> A certain (rube) Goldberg on another popular forum has laid out why, in his “medical” opinion, Floyd was just as likely to have died if he was sitting on his couch. The officer on his neck was only a minor contributing factor to his death.
> 
> Only question: did he have his robe on while he typed it?



He's a pharmacist, so he wasn't really trained to make these assessments I didn't read the autopsy report, but my understanding is he had an underlying hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, which is common amongst black men. Now if somebody is kneeling on your neck, the heart has to work harder to push blood into the brain... it's a vicious cycle. Let's say that's true... He could have had a good chance of getting saved via CPR (it's invented for situations like this). Guess who prevented that from happening?! Seriously, I'm annoyed by this because they want to obfuscate the fact that Floyd died because of Chauvin who could not be stopped because Floyd's killing was "official police business".


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## thekev

SuperMatt said:


> A certain (rube) Goldberg on another popular forum has laid out why, in his “medical” opinion, *Floyd was just as likely to have died if he was sitting on his couch*. The officer on his neck was only a minor contributing factor to his death.
> 
> Only question: did he have his robe on while he typed it?




He didn't exactly say that unless I came across the wrong post. He didn't mention the officer's interactions with medical personnel though. Officers should really have zero authority once it becomes a medical situation though. It would help discourage a lot of very stupid actions, even if some idiots still have badges.



			https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-george-floyd-trial.2290112/post-29736863


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## Eric

P_X said:


> He's a pharmacist, so he wasn't really trained to make these assessments I didn't read the autopsy report, but my understanding is he had an underlying hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, which is common amongst black men. Now if somebody is kneeling on your neck, the heart has to work harder to push blood into the brain... it's a vicious cycle. Let's say that's true... He could have had a good chance of getting saved via CPR (it's invented for situations like this). *Guess who prevented that from happening?!* Seriously, I'm annoyed by this because they want to obfuscate the fact that Floyd died because of Chauvin who could not be stopped because Floyd's killing was "official police business".



It'll be interesting to see them explain to the jury why they weren't allowed to help him.


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## SuperMatt

The whole PRSI thread is people trying to show that they are medical experts as a reason to excuse the murder. “‘I can’t be a racist; I’m a medical expert!!!” They made up their minds about it based on the color of George‘s skin and the uniform of the murderer. Makes me wanna .


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## Thomas Veil

What's really hard is watching some of the witnesses, like that poor man yesterday on the stand, who broke down in tears just talking about the event. I'm sure some of these people are feeling survivor's guilt, or PTSD, or just some form of asking themselves why they didn't do more to stop it.

You know and I know that you grab a cop (Chauvin) to pull him off, and you probably wind up dead yourself. Then there's the kid who flagged the $20 bill, and others. I'd bet they are blaming themselves in part for how this thing escalated, even though Chauvin is the one who did the deed. This is going to leave psychological scars on many of the peripheral participants and bystanders.


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## User.45

Thomas Veil said:


> What's really hard is watching some of the witnesses, like that poor man yesterday on the stand, who broke down in tears just talking about the event. I'm sure some of these people are feeling survivor's guilt, or PTSD, or just some form of asking themselves why they didn't do more to stop it.
> 
> You know and I know that you grab a cop (Chauvin) to pull him off, and you probably wind up dead yourself. Then there's the kid who flagged the $20 bill, and others. I'd bet they are blaming themselves in part for how this thing escalated, even though Chauvin is the one who did the deed. This is going to leave psychological scars on many of the peripheral participants and bystanders.



It's absolutely a mindfuck and definitely traumatizing. They either do the right thing and get labeled as the savage criminals justifying policy brutality, or watch this man die in the hands of cops. 

I do worry Chauvin will get away with this... You only need one racist on the jury...


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## Huntn

P_X said:


> He's a pharmacist, so he wasn't really trained to make these assessments I didn't read the autopsy report, but my understanding is he had an underlying hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, which is common amongst black men. Now if somebody is kneeling on your neck, the heart has to work harder to push blood into the brain... it's a vicious cycle. Let's say that's true... He could have had a good chance of getting saved via CPR (it's invented for situations like this). Guess who prevented that from happening?! Seriously, I'm annoyed by this because they want to obfuscate the fact that Floyd died because of Chauvin who could not be stopped because Floyd's killing was "official police business".






ericgtr12 said:


> It'll be interesting to see them explain to the jury why they weren't allowed to help him.



My impression this has happened on multiple occasions where a citizen typically black has been mortally wounded, and the police just let them bleed out. I think this happened with the black EMT killed in her apartment in a no knock raid, to the wrong address? The police were not held accountable for the death, but were scolded for stray bullets going into a next door neighbors apartment.


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## Eric

P_X said:


> It's absolutely a mindfuck and definitely traumatizing. They either do the right thing and get labeled as the savage criminals justifying policy brutality, or watch this man die in the hands of cops.
> 
> I do worry Chauvin will get away with this... You only need one racist on the jury...



And we've seen it time after time, it's not just the cops who are racist, it's the system. At least they were able to add a few different options here and I have a feeling that deliberations won't be easy for one or two people on the fence, hearing about their reactions so far it sounds like it's really impacting them.


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## User.45

Huntn said:


> My impression this has happened on multiple occasions where a citizen typically black has been mortally wounded, and the police just let them bleed out. I think this happened with the black EMT killed in her apartment in a no knock raid, to the wrong address? The police were not held accountable for the death, but were scolded for stray bullets going into a next door neighbors apartment.



Oh for sure. Nothing's more striking than the visuals of a person in a pool of blood next to the cop who shot them waiting like they could do nothing. 



ericgtr12 said:


> And we've seen it time after time, it's not just the cops who are racist, it's the system. At least they were able to add a few different options here and I have a feeling that deliberations won't be easy for one or two people on the fence, hearing about their reactions so far it sounds like it's really impacting them.



This trial will make or break this country. If Chauvin's acquitted, we'll see a MAJOR influx of white supremacists into the force.


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## Eric

P_X said:


> Oh for sure. Nothing's more striking than the visuals of a person in a pool of blood next to the cop who shot them waiting like they could do nothing.
> 
> 
> This trial will make or break this country. If Chauvin's acquitted, we'll see a MAJOR influx of white supremacists into the force.



I think we would also see BLM protests like never before, and I would be out there with them.


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## User.45

ericgtr12 said:


> I think we would also see BLM protests like never before, and I would be out there with them.



same here...


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## User.45

AAAAAAARGH.

Physician testimony is so frustrating.... Defense tries to establish Floyd was complaining of shortness of breath due to Fentanyl.... The defense lawyer asked the doc whether hypercarbia (elevated CO2) could have made Floyd feel short of breath and the doc said "yes". Fuck no it *doesn't if the cause is opioid overdose! The way opioid overdose causes hypercarbia is that it suppresses respiratory drive and air hunger. We specifically use it to treat air hunger.

You can tell that the defense has a very weak case when putting such emphasis on the lack of Narcan use to "reverse" "opioid-induced" cardiopulmonary failure. As the physician suggested, it's "nice" to have a circulation that actually takes narcan to opioid receptors...


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## Eric

P_X said:


> AAAAAAARGH.
> 
> Physician testimony is so frustrating.... Defense tries to establish Floyd was complaining of shortness of breath due to Fentanyl.... The defense lawyer asked the doc whether hypercarbia (elevated CO2) could have made Floyd feel short of breath and the doc said "yes". Fuck no it can't! The way opioid overdose causes hypercarbia is that it suppresses respiratory drive and air hunger. We specifically use it to treat air hunger.
> 
> You can tell that the defense has a very weak case when putting such emphasis on the lack of Narcan use to "reverse" "opioid-induced" cardiopulmonary failure. As the physician suggested, it's "nice" to have a circulation that actually takes narcan to opioid receptors...



I haven't been watching but I'm guessing the prosecution grilled him?


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## User.45

ericgtr12 said:


> I haven't been watching but I'm guessing the prosecution grilled him?



Yes. It wasn't that bad, but medically speaking, the prosecution tried to make the argument that high CO2 is a sign of hypoventilation that can emerge secondary to fentanyl overdose. It's bullshit, if he's narc'd out of his mind he would have been less agitated. It also has a short half life...in my field we used to do it if we needed very quick sedation with the ability to do adequate mental status exams in the next hour or so. 

If I were the defense I would have focused on methamphetamine that could cause arrhytmias and cardiac arrest. From my perspective they appeared poorly prepared focusing on medically irrelevant stuff (i.e. I've learnt nothing relevant from the second half of physician testimony). Yet considering the current notoriety of fentanyl, it's probably a better drug to focus on to manipulate the jury.


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## Eric

Chief Arradondo was articulate, credible and measured. A very good witness for the prosecution.


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## User.45

ericgtr12 said:


> Chief Arradondo was articulate, credible and measured. A very good witness for the prosecution.



Agree. Though I have to admit I LOL'd when he said the US police is best in the world. He might be right though, but it means we as a society are absolutely screwed...


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## User.45

Now we are back to officer "feared for their life" territory.


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## Eric

P_X said:


> Now we are back to officer "feared for their life" territory.



Yes, when they're handcuffed face down pleading for the life you can't be too careful. I get the defense has to focus on this stuff but it's hard to imagine a jury buying it.


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## User.45

ericgtr12 said:


> Yes, when they're handcuffed face down pleading for the life you can't be too careful. I get the defense has to focus on this stuff but it's hard to imagine a jury buying it.



The insinuation by defense was that 
1) the police chief has been off the streets for many years
2) There is a "heightened sense of awareness" of danger when the most dangerous police activity of approaching an assailants car takes place
3) Floyd was "actively resisting" so the applied force was proportionate (as we learned today, the criteria of "active resistance" can be very broadly interpreted and applied to anybody unhappy with police intervention. If you go limp: you're actively resisting. If you stiffen up, you're actively resisting. 
4) Floyd was short of breath because of fentanyl and you cannot prove that his death was not secondary to opioid overdose. Again, opioids don't cause shortness of breath they actually treat it by reducing the discomfort caused by unmatched respiratory supply to a person's respiratory need. This on its own is sufficient for me to rule out fentanyl overdose as a cause of death. (I've seen people commenting on this on r/Conservative who couldn't even even spell fentanyl).


The police chiefs non-verbal communication was absolutely telling about what he thinks about Chauvin's actions.


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## lizkat

ericgtr12 said:


> Yes, when they're handcuffed face down pleading for the life you can't be too careful. I get the defense has to focus on this stuff but it's hard to imagine a jury buying it.





Like any citizen in good health would be just fine after a cop knelt on his or her neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds?

Chauvin should have taken a plea.   But at least now we get to see how difficult it is to try to defend his inexcusable actions.


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## User.45

lizkat said:


> Like any citizen in good health would be just fine after a cop knelt on his or her neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds?
> 
> Chauvin should have taken a plea.   But at least now we get to see how difficult it is to try to defend his inexcusable actions.



I give it slightly more than 50% that it's gonna be a hung jury. :/

It only takes a single "ghost skin".


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## lizkat

P_X said:


> I give it slightly more than 50% that it's gonna be a hung jury. :/
> 
> It only takes a single "ghost skin".





I'm not good at assessing where my fellow countrymen stand on a lot of topics,  I've realized.   Cops killing people of color because "apparently they can" is one of those topics.    And even if they can't, apparently there's now a sense at least from some cops' perspective,  that the facts of old cases can be manipulated when it comes to current public review of those cases.

I lived in NYC when the unarmed immigrant Amadou Diallo died in a hail of 41 police bullets, 19 of which hit him, and which gunfire had continued after he had fallen to the ground per an eyewitness.  There is a lot that is interesting about the acquittal of the four police officers who shot him to death.  The trial was moved to Albany from NYC, the jurors were four Black and eight White.   But even more interesting is an annotation in the Wikipedia piece about relatively recent edits made to that piece and to other Wiki pieces about high profile shootings by police.  Some of the edits appear to have been made from computers at NYC Police Headquarters and have attempted to mess with public views of facts of these cases, some of which cases now of course are practically ancient history.









						Killing of Amadou Diallo - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				


​"A report from *Capital New York*[17] reported that *85 IP addresses belonging to the New York Police Department had made changes to Wikipedia pages about NYPD misconduct and also to people killed in police interventions, including this article.*[18] One of these editions stated that _"Officer Kenneth Boss had previously been involved in an incident in which an unarmed man was shot, but continued to work as a police officer"_ and was changed to _"Officer Kenneth Boss was previously involved in an incident in which a man armed was shot.”_[17] Two policemen associated with these editions were reported to receive only "minor reprimands".[19][20]"​
We may have a really long way to go in the USA when it comes to the reality of a colorblind Lady Justice, if cops are still playing with the American public --and the world--  on bad police shooting cases that went wrong in the jury box 45 years ago and the cops or their defenders are still trying to make it seem like what happened was OK.


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## Huntn

P_X said:


> Yes. It wasn't that bad, but medically speaking, the prosecution tried to make the argument that high CO2 is a sign of hypoventilation that can emerge secondary to fentanyl overdose. It's bullshit, if he's narc'd out of his mind he would have been less agitated. It also has a short half life...in my field we used to do it if we needed very quick sedation with the ability to do adequate mental status exams in the next hour or so.
> 
> If I were the defense I would have focused on methamphetamine that could cause arrhytmias and cardiac arrest. From my perspective they appeared poorly prepared focusing on medically irrelevant stuff (i.e. I've learnt nothing relevant from the second half of physician testimony). Yet considering the current notoriety of fentanyl, it's probably a better drug to focus on to manipulate the jury.



Yeah, but he died.


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## User.45

Huntn said:


> Yeah, but he died.



...under the knee of Chauvin.


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## Huntn

Quick tip, if you are black and the police are killing you, just be a good citizen and die quietly or they may charge you with resisting your own death.   

Chauvin’s attorney argues Floyd saying, ‘I can’t breathe,’ was a form of resisting arrest​


			https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/07/derek-chauvin-trial/


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## Eric

P_X said:


> I give it slightly more than 50% that it's gonna be a hung jury. :/
> 
> It only takes a single "ghost skin".



If history is any judge I fear this is an accurate guess. Society as well as law enforcement simply puts less value on the life of a black person, even when they witness a slow and cruel death of this magnitude in high resolution video.


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## Huntn

P_X said:


> Now we are back to officer "feared for their life" territory.






ericgtr12 said:


> Yes, when they're handcuffed face down pleading for the life you can't be too careful. I get the defense has to focus on this stuff but it's hard to imagine a jury buying it.



The Defense is going for a hung jury, they just have to reach one juror.  .


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## JayMysteri0

THIS was not a good moment...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380234740540743681/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380184082953437185/


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## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> THIS was not a good moment...
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380234740540743681/
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380184082953437185/



Dr Tobin DESTROYED the defense's arguments. 
https://www.nytimes.com/video/players/offsite/index.html?videoId=100000007699563

If you're paywalled:
He counts the respiratory rate on the video, which measures up to about 22. Opioid intoxication causes slow breathing (22 is high normal). 
He also points out that Chauvin's boot is off the ground at one point, thus the majority of his body weight is on Floyd's neck.
He lastly points out the restrictive effect on lung expansion of the second officer pushing on his back.

This provides a really really good case against the second officer.


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## Eric

JayMysteri0 said:


> THIS was not a good moment...
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380234740540743681/
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380184082953437185/



By far the most compelling testimony yet, especially when they showed his foot off the ground putting his entire weight on the knee. I don't envy the jury having to watch that over and over like that, to me it's painful.


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## User.45

ericgtr12 said:


> By far the most compelling testimony yet, especially when they showed his foot off the ground putting his entire weight on the knee. I don't envy the jury having to watch that over and over like that, to me it's painful.



Same here. I couldn't watch this footage more than twice.


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## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380490723452149764/


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## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380490723452149764/



It's kinda like billionaire donations vs. an actual social safety net.


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## User.45

ericgtr12 said:


> By far the most compelling testimony yet, especially when they showed his foot off the ground putting his entire weight on the knee. I don't envy the jury having to watch that over and over like that, to me it's painful.



I've been getting secondary anger attacks just remembering the shit my MR frenemy used to tell about Floyd's (or Breonna Taylor's) death of "media manipulating public discourse to favor Democrats". Dug it up:









Context matters, so i included it.... 

So the "neutral" right sees these issues like this (note this is from last summer).
Darren Rainey was literally boiled to death by the correctional officers. This MF had the nerve of calling it not police brutality....Like a correctional system where officers can get away with shit like this unscathed didn't set people's attitude towards cops and the justice system.

Per this guy, Chauvin was "grossly negligent". I'd consider that for the killing of Dan Prude who did aspirate quickly and did receive CPR, but not for Floyd. Chauvin murdered Floyd, he put him in an unsafe hold, for many minutes, despite clear pleads, ignored clues, like Floyd becoming unresponsive, loss of bladder control and cessation of breathing, did not provide CPR, prevented EMS from providing medical attention on arrival. This is how the "neutral" right defines "gross negligence" when the situation is inconvenient to them. Fuck these guys.


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## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1380490723452149764/



Typically self policing never works anywhere. Look at corporations, manufacturing, and any big business who claim they can regulate themselves to an acceptable standard. Typically it takes an independent, third party, not vested financially, oversight.


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## Thomas Veil

Not that anyone should approve of this, but if you’re gonna vandalize something in protest, at least get the right address.









						Pig's blood was smeared on the former home of the use-of-force expert who testified for the defense in Chauvin's trial, police say | CNN
					

The former California home of use-of-force expert Barry Brodd was smeared with pig's blood Saturday, four days after he testified for the defense in Derek Chauvin's trial in Minneapolis, Minnesota, police said.




					www.cnn.com


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## DT

Huntn said:


> Typically self policing never works anywhere. Look at corporations, manufacturing, and any big business who claim they can regulate themselves to an acceptable standard. Typically it takes an independent, third party, not vested financially, oversight.




Yep, in closed organizations, there's always value to the few (i.e., the members) that takes priority, and the only time you see that appear to change, is like the Vox article pointed out, it becomes advantageous (again, to the few, and it's just temporary).


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## User.45

I like birds eye view big picture stuff, because it's the quickest way to eliminate the BS from nit picking:








__





						Our visualizations – Fatal Encounters
					






					fatalencounters.org
				




*26 imputation for race...


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## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384248467803938827/


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## JayMysteri0

This took a Marjorie Taylor Greene turn.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384253994722201615/

Somehow Maxine Waters call to keep protesting if Chauvin isn't found guilty is a threat to the jury?



> What Rep. Maxine Waters really said in Brooklyn Center and what the reaction has been
> 
> 
> Google Maxine Waters right now and you’ll likely see the latest social media-enhanced chapter in the politically charged spectacle of condemnation, in this case, over something the California…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.twincities.com





> WHAT WATERS TOLD REPORTERS​Shortly after her comments to the crowd, Waters addressed a gaggle of mostly reporters for about 6 minutes and 15 seconds, including fielding questions.
> 
> She emphasized that “We’re looking for a guilty verdict … for murder,” referring to the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, who is charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in the death of George Floyd in May.
> 
> At one point, she was asked what she thought protesters should do if the jury did not find Chauvin guilty of the murder charge. It’s unclear if she heard the entire context of the question, so part of it was repeated: “What should protesters do?”
> 
> This is the controversial part.
> 
> Here’s how she responded: “Well, we’ve got to stay on the street. And we’ve got to get more active. We’ve got to get more confrontational. We’ve got to make sure that they know that we mean business.”
> 
> Then she was asked: “What do you think about this curfew tonight?” referring to an 11 p.m. curfew the city of Brooklyn Center had administered for Saturday night in an attempt to prevent violence, arson and looting.
> 
> Here’s how Waters responded: “I don’t think anything about curfew. I don’t think anything about curfew. I don’t know what curfew means. Curfew means that ‘I want you all to stop talking. I want you to stop leading. I want you to stop gathering.’ I don’t agree with that.”
> 
> This was a little over 20 minutes before curfew. Then she was asked, “Are you gonna stay out here?”
> 
> Waters responded: “I’m not gonna stay out here. I came here from Washington just to be here to make sure that I let my voice be heard among all of those who have been putting so much time on the street. And so, I’m hopeful that the protests will continue. Thank you.”




I maybe biased because I like "Auntie Maxine", but this some serious work to get upset by.

What da fuq?!!!

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384255258717655046/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384252676569923597/

Fear of an angry Black woman strikes again.


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## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> This took a Marjorie Taylor Greene turn.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384253994722201615/
> 
> Somehow Maxine Waters call to keep protesting if Chauvin isn't found guilty is a threat to the jury?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I maybe biased because I like "Auntie Maxine", but this some serious work to get upset by.
> 
> What da fuq?!!!
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384255258717655046/
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384252676569923597/
> 
> Fear of an angry Black woman strikes again.



Holy crap, we got a stupid judge in Minnesota; who would’ve thunk it? And he didn’t bother to read her actual comments; just the Fox News flame baiting.


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> This took a Marjorie Taylor Greene turn.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384253994722201615/
> 
> Somehow Maxine Waters call to keep protesting if Chauvin isn't found guilty is a threat to the jury?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I maybe biased because I like "Auntie Maxine", but this some serious work to get upset by.
> 
> What da fuq?!!!
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384255258717655046/
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384252676569923597/
> 
> Fear of an angry Black woman strikes again.





SuperMatt said:


> Holy crap, we got a stupid judge in Minnesota; who would’ve thunk it? And he didn’t bother to read her actual comments; just the Fox News flame baiting.



It boils down to the interpretation of "confrontational". The right wingers will certainly interpret it as violence. Your left leaning bias will lead to the interpretation of this is not direct incitement of violence. I'd say in this context it is and it's problematic, it will give a lot of ammo to the right wing and is more likely to backfire than not. Their interests are to paint BLM as a violent movement, and one way to do so consciously or subconsciously is for cops to approach BLM protests with more force (as they do). If I look at the possible scenarios, even the the best outcome is statistically the most likely single outcome, the overall likelihood for a bad outcome is still higher:

1. Chauvin gets the murder sentence he absolutely deserves:
     A) BLM celebrates peacefully=> yay. a big victory for the movement.
     B) Protests still occur with violence=> Waters takes the blame and BLM gets a bad rep amongst neutrals and those previously in favor of the movement
2. Chauvin gets a lesser sentence and chaos breaks loose => Waters takes the blame.
3. Chauvin gets acquitted/hung jury. Chaos breaking loose is guaranteed => Waters takes the blame.

Now I do want to be realistic as to we are idolizing MLK, but would his movement have the impact without the underlying threat of violence by the not-so-non-violent movements like that of early Malcolm X?


----------



## JayMysteri0

P_X said:


> It boils down to the interpretation of "confrontational". The right wingers will certainly interpret it as violence. Your left leaning bias will lead to the interpretation of this is not direct incitement of violence. I'd say in this context it is and it's problematic, it will give a lot of ammo to the right wing and is more likely to backfire than not. Their interests are to paint BLM as a violent movement, and one way to do so consciously or subconsciously is for cops to approach BLM protests with more force (as they do). If I look at the possible scenarios, even the the best outcome is statistically the most likely single outcome, the overall likelihood for a bad outcome is still higher:
> 
> 1. Chauvin gets the murder sentence he absolutely deserves:
> A) BLM celebrates peacefully=> yay. a big victory for the movement.
> B) Protests still occur with violence=> Waters takes the blame and BLM gets a bad rep amongst neutrals and those previously in favor of the movement
> 2. Chauvin gets a lesser sentence and chaos breaks loose => Waters takes the blame.
> 3. Chauvin gets acquitted/hung jury. Chaos breaking loose is guaranteed => Waters takes the blame.
> 
> Now I do want to be realistic as to we are idolizing MLK, but would his movement have the impact without the underlying threat of violence by the not-so-non-violent movements like that of early Malcolm X?



The problem I have with that is the judge's own words.

He claims that Waters' word can be taken as threatening the jury.  If I was a lawyer trying that with him though, that shit would get slapped down since Waters' doesn't mention the jury.  It's broadly interpreting on HIS part that Waters' is somehow threatening violence to the jury specifically.  As opposed to her actual words of "Here’s how she responded: “Well, we’ve got to stay on the street. And we’ve got to get more active. We’ve got to get more confrontational. We’ve got to make sure that they know that we mean business.”

That's one broad ass interpretation. 

On top of that, it's telling it's Waters' words OUT OF ALL that's been said, that suddenly carry this magical weight that's going to burn down the city and scare the jury.

What the fuck did they think was going to happen if a "not guilty" verdict was delivered.

The city was going to shrug it's shoulders, go "oh well, and go home?

Do we NOT remember LA & Rodney King?  Anyone who thought this wasn't going to turn into a shit show.  Really?

This is some B.S. to set someone else for taking the blame if a verdict is reached and IT sets things ablaze.

I'm also confused at how Water's words can do so much damage, but in the judge's own words, "a congresswoman's opinion really doesn't matter a whole lot."

Make up your mind.


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> The problem I have with that is the judge's own words.
> 
> He claims that Waters' word can be taken as threatening the jury.  If I was a lawyer trying that with him though, that shit would get slapped down since Waters' doesn't mention the jury.  It's broadly interpreting on HIS part that Waters' is somehow threatening violence to the jury specifically.  As opposed to her actual words of "Here’s how she responded: “Well, we’ve got to stay on the street. And we’ve got to get more active. We’ve got to get more confrontational. We’ve got to make sure that they know that we mean business.”
> 
> That's one broad ass interpretation.



Let's place this in context, because these are the things the right clings into, including my MR Frenemy, who absolved Trump from his responsibility from the Capitol riot, just because he said the words "Lawfully" and "peacefully" in the context of 2 months of mass agitation and a speech that fueled people up to head to the Capitol. Waters' words are in a context of significant property damage is violent confrontations in the city (even though agent provocateur activity played a significant role in such). So in this context confrontation is reasonably interpreted as property damage at the least. 

My perception is different about the judge's words, he expressed his frustration about this but *concluded that as the jury was supposed to not be informed about any of this, it should be irrelevant from the perspective of the case.* He essentially concludes that this is fucked up but irrelevant. I definitely understand the judge's frustration about the level of risk for outside influence in this case. That said, I definitely don't share _his_ frustration, I share the frustration of the Black community, and the frustration of overpoliced but underserved communities in general.



JayMysteri0 said:


> What the fuck did they think was going to happen if a "not guilty" verdict was delivered.
> 
> The city was going to shrug it's shoulders, go "oh well, and go home?
> 
> Do we NOT remember LA & Rodney King?  Anyone who thought this wasn't going to turn into a shit show.  Really?
> 
> This is some B.S. to set someone else for taking the blame if a verdict is reached and IT sets things ablaze.
> 
> I'm also confused at how Water's words can do so much damage, but in the judge's own words, "a congresswoman's opinion really doesn't matter a whole lot."
> 
> Make up your mind.



I agree with you. In reality Waters' words will have a limited impact on what's gonna happen, but this is exactly why it's unnecessary risk as she can be blamed for any mishap regardless of her questionable influence on such. It's bad move from a strategical standpoint for all the above very reasons. I also don't know what could be an proportionate and adequate peaceful response to Chauvin getting away with murder.


----------



## JayMysteri0

P_X said:


> Let's place this in context, because these are the things the right clings into, including my MR Frenemy, who absolved Trump from his responsibility from the Capitol riot, just because he said the words "Lawfully" and "peacefully" in the context of 2 months of mass agitation and a speech that fueled people up to head to the Capitol. Waters' words are in a context of significant property damage is violent confrontations in the city (even though agent provocateur activity played a significant role in such). So in this context confrontation is reasonably interpreted as property damage at the least.
> 
> My perception is different about the judge's words, he expressed his frustration about this but *concluded that as the jury was supposed to not be informed about any of this, it should be irrelevant from the perspective of the case.* He essentially concludes that this is fucked up but irrelevant. I definitely understand the judge's frustration about the level of risk for outside influence in this case. That said, I definitely don't share _his_ frustration, I share the frustration of the Black community, and the frustration of overpoliced but underserved communities in general.
> 
> 
> I agree with you. In reality Waters' words will have a limited impact on what's gonna happen, but this is exactly why it's unnecessary risk as she can be blamed for any mishap regardless of her questionable influence on such. It's bad move from a strategical standpoint for all the above very reasons. I also don't know what could be an proportionate and adequate peaceful response to Chauvin getting away with murder.



That's the thing I see on Twitter.

Basically only White conservatives are freaking out and wanting her expelled from congress.

Black Twitter just seems to be scratching their head and going what happened on 1\6?


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> That's the thing I see on Twitter.
> 
> Basically only White conservatives are freaking out and wanting her expelled from congress.
> 
> Black Twitter just seems to be scratching their head and going what happened on 1\6?



Indeed I'm annoyed by that double standard. Law&Order conservatives were definitely not as concerned about L&O on 1/6 as they usually are.


----------



## SuperMatt

P_X said:


> Indeed I'm annoyed by that double standard. Law&Order conservatives were definitely not as concerned about L&O on 1/6 as they usually are.



The fine upstanding citizens that visited the Capitol on January 6th were just chilling with their friends, the Capitol police. They posed for selfies, had a good laugh, then went home. Not sure what all the fuss is about. I know that’s what happened because I read it in the MR forums. Oh, and this is the only time I’ve seen Trumpers lie about crowd size in the negative direction. They are saying only 250 people were there.

Meanwhile, Maxine Waters told everybody to begin a civil war by killing every cop in America, starting with mall security guards.

Presumably, there are people who actually believe the utter  I posted above. Either that or MR is a popular venue for Internet-forum performance art.


----------



## User.45

SuperMatt said:


> The fine upstanding citizens that visited the Capitol on January 6th were just chilling with their friends, the Capitol police. They posed for selfies, had a good laugh, then went home. Not sure what all the fuss is about. I know that’s what happened because I read it in the MR forums. Oh, and this is the only time I’ve seen Trumpers lie about crowd size in the negative direction. They are saying only 250 people were there.
> 
> Meanwhile, Maxine Waters told everybody to begin a civil war by killing every cop in America, starting with mall security guards.
> 
> Presumably, there are people who actually believe the utter  I posted above. Either that or MR is a popular venue for Internet-forum performance art.



Some of these people are just hopeless.


----------



## Alli

I just wish she hadn't asked people to get more confrontational. Bad choice of words.


----------



## Pumbaa

Alli said:


> I just wish she hadn't asked people to get more confrontational. Bad choice of words.



Absolutely horrible choice of words. Wonder if getting more confrontational will end up even worse than “defund the Police”.


----------



## shadow puppet

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384589961358462977/

Here we go...


----------



## JayMysteri0

shadow puppet said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384589961358462977/
> 
> Here we go...



THAT

WAS

FAST


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> THAT
> 
> WAS
> 
> FAST



That's generally a good sign.


----------



## shadow puppet

JayMysteri0 said:


> THAT
> 
> WAS
> 
> FAST



Yeah.  I was surprised to see it as well.  The city appears boarded up in anticipation.









						‘God Knows What’s Going to Happen’: Minneapolis Braces for Verdict in Floyd’s Death (Published 2021)
					

Businesses boarded up and residents held their breath, fearing a repeat of last year’s unrest if the jury brings back a decision that the public sees as unjust.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## DT

City is so quiet, it's eery ...

Yeah, hoping this quick result is a good sign.


----------



## shadow puppet

Most are reporting the verdict should be out around 4:30P-5P ET.


----------



## JayMysteri0

As hurt posted, quick verdicts are often seen as good for the defendant.

It maybe a looooonnggggg night


----------



## Eric

Alli said:


> I just wish she hadn't asked people to get more confrontational. Bad choice of words.



Agreed, she's just given all the haters more fodder. I definitely get her sentiment but wouldn't have worded it like that either.


----------



## JayMysteri0

ericgtr12 said:


> Agreed, she's just given all the haters more fodder. I definitely get her sentiment but wouldn't have worded it like that either.



That's thing about emotion & being under a constant microscope.

You're eventually going to say something that riles up your critics.  

I can't say I would have worded it differently or at all for that matter.  I just know that something was going to be found to cry about from someone, and she unfortunately did it.

I'm still having trouble wrapping my brain around the judge's complaint.  Was he expecting Waters to couch her words, so as to not upset him?  If he was so worried about what the jury may hear, he had to option to sequester.  She doesn't lose her freedom of speech out of concern for the trail.  Seems no one else's word had such impact, I'm betting others were a little more "aggressive" with their comments.


----------



## Pumbaa

I really should go to sleep soon... Maybe I will, and dream about people peacefully celebrating a reasonable and just verdict in the streets (while adhering to social distancing of course) all night.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Pumbaa said:


> I really should go to sleep soon... Maybe I will, and dream about people peacefully celebrating a reasonable and just verdict in the streets (while adhering to social distancing of course) all night.



The pessimist in me says drink heavily.

Things may still be burning when you get up.


----------



## Thomas Veil

I see this as a good sign. The jury deliberating for so short a time tells me there was very little consideration they thought him not guilty; more likely they debated just how guilty he actually is.

Therein lies the rub. If he gets a light sentence it will be seen as the same as no sentence at all.

Then again, will we learn an actual sentence today, beyond general sentencing outlines? Won’t that be for a future hearing?


----------



## Pumbaa

JayMysteri0 said:


> The pessimist in me says drink heavily.
> 
> Things may still be burning when you get up.



Drinking negatively affects my sleep, so that would make it more likely for things to still be burning when I get up. In any case, I fear the pessimist in you is right. I am not looking forward to the likely reactions to the verdict.

What I am looking forward to on the other hand is competent independent analysis of the verdict once it has been released and reviewed.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Pumbaa said:


> Drinking negatively affects my sleep, so that would make it more likely for things to still be burning when I get up. In any case, I fear the pessimist in you is right. I am not looking forward to the likely reactions to the verdict.
> 
> What I am looking forward to on the other hand is competent independent analysis of the verdict once it has been released and reviewed.



To go along with the drinking, I got that "competent independent analysis" covered for you...


----------



## Thomas Veil

JayMysteri0 said:


> To go along with the drinking, I got that "competent independent analysis" covered for you...
> 
> View attachment 4629



Oh god...


----------



## Pumbaa

JayMysteri0 said:


> To go along with the drinking, I got that "competent independent analysis" covered for you...
> 
> View attachment 4629



Thanks! For a bit I thought I would have to rely solely on PRSI for that.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Wow! Guilty on all three counts.


----------



## shadow puppet

Thank you jury.


----------



## Pumbaa

Wonder what hurt’s gonna say..


----------



## JayMysteri0

I honestly did NOT believe there would ever be a real accountability.

Now I loathe waiting to hear from those with tears in their eyes & hearts.


----------



## User.45

Thomas Veil said:


> Wow! Guilty on all three counts.



The sad thing is that despite the multi-angle video evidence we all were still nervous about this whole thing...


----------



## Thomas Veil

The judge said sentencing will not be for eight weeks, but on all three charges he could get a maximum of 70 years.

The crowd outside erupted in cheers, so let’s hope there’s nothing burning tonight.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Pumbaa said:


> Wonder what hurt’s gonna say..



We gotta wait.

Boxer decided to open the old box of racial tropes just as the verdict was reached.  That may deflect a bit from those who don't igonre.


----------



## shadow puppet

Pumbaa said:


> Wonder what hurt’s gonna say..



I honestly don't care.


----------



## shadow puppet

Yay.  Now throw away the key and let him rot.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384615571518537736/


----------



## Scepticalscribe

Thomas Veil said:


> Wow! Guilty on all three counts.




Guilty of manslaughter, guilty of third degree murder and guilty of second degree murder.  

Wow.

Must admit that - until this was read out by the judge - I wasn't quite sure that it would be possible for the jury to return a guilty verdict.


----------



## shadow puppet

Scepticalscribe said:


> Guilty of manslaughter, guilty of third degree murder and guilty of second degree murder.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Must admit that - until this was read out by the judge - I wasn't quite sure that it would be possible for the jury to return a guilty verdict.



I think many felt the same.  I can't say how many times I refreshed several tabbed windows for info.  The anxiety was palpable.


----------



## User.45

This is a landmark. A sad, shitty, awful landmark. But a landmark. And not just the verdict, but how quickly it was reached, which suggests zero ambiguity.


----------



## SuperMatt

Goes to show most people are reasonable, and the far-right nuts who would acquit him are very few and far between. The crazies just get a lot of press so you think there are more of them.


----------



## JayMysteri0

shadow puppet said:


> Yay.  Now throw away the key and let him rot.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384615571518537736/



 THAT is called "accountability".

Hopefully some other "officers" take heed.  There's ALWAYS cellphone video now.

ACT like a real police officer and stopping making those who really want to do the job look bad.


----------



## DT

Holy shit.  We were shocked on this end, amazing, thank you jurors.

Right?  How easily, without video, and push to get it reviewed, filed with the SA, this would've been another non-event.  We're all watching, recording, do the job, do it right, or suffer the consequences.


----------



## shadow puppet

I hope police realize everything has changed.  Everyone is now watching & recording.  

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384620591072694278/


----------



## Eric

Finally! Justice is served, let's make this the new precedent.


----------



## Thomas Veil

And let's give Chauvin some decent jail time on each count. If the judge imposes minimal time on each one, _that_ could set off riots.


----------



## Renzatic

I'm honestly surprised. Given how divided everyone seems to be these days, I was expecting a hung jury. All it would take would be just one holdout standing by his "principles" by refusing to vote guilty for one of the thin blue lines to see this go mistrial.

Now I'm wondering what the response will be.


----------



## Eric

Thomas Veil said:


> And let's give Chauvin some decent jail time on each count. If the judge imposes minimal time on each one, _that_ could set off riots.



It was interesting that Chauvin's team left it in the hands of the judge instead of the jury, that could go either way. You get the impression this guy is sympathetic to him though.


----------



## shadow puppet

Did you see how shell shocked Chauvin looked as the judge read each verdict?!


----------



## SuperMatt

ericgtr12 said:


> It was interesting that Chauvin's team left it in the hands of the judge instead of the jury, that could go either way. You get the impression this guy is sympathetic to him though.



The judge’s statement about Maxine Waters speaks volumes.


----------



## Pumbaa

ericgtr12 said:


> Finally! Justice is served, let's make this the new precedent.



Accountability! I could live with that precedent.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Pumbaa said:


> Wonder what hurt’s gonna say..



Seems hurt left the forum shortly after the verdict was read.

Gotta hit the other boards and be mad I guess.

In the meantime I'll be chilling relieved


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> Seems hurt left the forum shortly after the verdict was read.
> 
> Gotta hit the other boards and be mad I guess.





He's going to get naked, put on a white hood, and have a consoling Zoom circle jerk with some of his gun buddies ...


----------



## DT

Hahahaha ...





Too much?


----------



## Scepticalscribe

DT said:


> He's going to get naked, put on a white hood, and have a consoling Zoom circle jerk with some of his gun buddies ...




Just remember to send him the laundry instructions for that hood.

As a woman, I have imprinted (baby duck to balloon sort of sociological and biological imprinting) somewhere in the depths of my deeply twisted double helix DNA all of those laundry, or detergent, ads I saw as a kid on TV, the ones that urged you to want to get your laundry "whiter than white".


----------



## Renzatic

Scepticalscribe said:


> As a woman, I have imprinted (baby duck to balloon sort of sociological and biological imprinting) somewhere in the depths of my deeply twisted double helix DNA all of those laundry, or detergent, ads I saw as a kid on TV, the ones that urged you to want to get your laundry "whiter than white".




To this day, I still randomly recall the Chef Boyardee's Dinosaurs commercial. When it happens, I have no choice but to sing.


----------



## SuperMatt

DT said:


> Hahahaha ...
> 
> View attachment 4631
> 
> Too much?



Never change, DT, never change…


----------



## Thomas Veil

shadow puppet said:


> Did you see how shell shocked Chauvin looked as the judge read each verdict?!




Funny, I thought the opposite. I was kind of surprised at how his expression barely changed as they found him guilty on all three counts. 

Maybe he was just too stunned, but I think he must've known what was up and prepared himself mentally beforehand for the worst.


----------



## User.45

Thomas Veil said:


> Funny, I thought the opposite. I was kind of surprised at how his expression barely changed as they found him guilty on all three counts.
> 
> Maybe he was just too stunned, but I think he must've known what was up and prepared himself mentally beforehand for the worst.





shadow puppet said:


> Did you see how shell shocked Chauvin looked as the judge read each verdict?!



To me the mask was covering too much. I was looking for micro facial expressions, like twitches around the eye, but nothing. His eyes did get watery. He was ready to plead guilty many months ago which was reportedly prevented by the DOJ, so this guy knows he's guilty. Honestly, the only reason we are surprised is because of the long track record of miscarried justice, not because this case was ambiguous or complex...


----------



## Renzatic

Thomas Veil said:


> Maybe he was just too stunned, but I think he must've known what was up and prepared himself mentally beforehand for the worst.




The case against him was extraordinarily solid. I imagine his lawyers had a frank discussion or two with him before the verdict was read.


----------



## Renzatic

P_X said:


> He was ready to plead guilty many months ago which was reportedly prevented by the DOJ, so this guy knows he's guilty.




That's the first I've heard of this. Got a link?


----------



## User.45

Renzatic said:


> That's the first I've heard of this. Got a link?











						Why William Barr Rejected a Plea Deal in the George Floyd Killing (Published 2021)
					

Mr. Barr, then the attorney general, rejected a plea deal days after Mr. Floyd died, worried in part of protesters calling it lenient. Derek Chauvin was set to plead guilty to third-degree murder.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## shadow puppet

Sigh.  

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384657904914079747/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384662479490490369/


----------



## Eric

Had to call the blonde nutbag out on Twitter.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384640428297781252/


----------



## User.45

ericgtr12 said:


> Had to call the blonde nutbag out on Twitter.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384640428297781252/



Besides the condescension, it's telling that she isn't aware (or ashamed of) how saying "your justice" implies that her justice is something different. Like it either doesn't matter for her that a cop murdered somebody and people had to watch it because they couldn't stop him because he is a cop. So getting a murderer actually put away for a murder committed broad daylight is somebody else's justice?! Which raises the question what the interpretation of justice is for a law&order person like she considers herself?!


----------



## Thomas Veil

To show you how much this trial affected people...I was picking up dinner and listening to the car radio, and even _ESPN_ was talking about this. The evening host (I don’t know his name) asked a Minneapolis sports reporter to describe the scene, and she said it felt safe, with people stopping by just to show their support, say a kind word or bow a head in prayer.


----------



## Eric

Found on Reddit...


----------



## shadow puppet

What the heck is that maniacal laugh at the end?  Note Tucker does't even touch on the 15 yr. old shot four times in the chest today.
What the AF?  I will never understand why anyone gives Carlson the time of day for their daily dose of news.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384691920685854721/


----------



## SuperMatt

shadow puppet said:


> What the heck is that maniacal laugh at the end?  Note Tucker does't even touch on the 15 yr. old shot four times in the chest today.
> What the AF?  I will never understand why anyone gives Carlson the time of day for their daily dose of news.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384691920685854721/



How can anybody with even 1/2 a brain take him seriously? That clip shows how his narrative can’t even stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny, or even somebody on simply telling the truth. The only way he can argue with others is to show out-of-context clips his staff spent hours cherry-picking to make them look a certain way that feeds his racist narrative. If the person is actually there discussing it with him, he can’t last even 30 seconds.


----------



## JayMysteri0

ericgtr12 said:


> Had to call the blonde nutbag out on Twitter.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384640428297781252/



I would have filed that under TFG

That's some straight @$$ showing.

That's some contempt, revealing what she thinks of "others".


----------



## User.45

If this happened before the age of cell phone and body cameras:


----------



## JayMysteri0

shadow puppet said:


> What the heck is that maniacal laugh at the end?  Note Tucker does't even touch on the 15 yr. old shot four times in the chest today.
> What the AF?  I will never understand why anyone gives Carlson the time of day for their daily dose of news.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384691920685854721/



WTF?!  Was that?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384690184793595907/

I'm wondering if that's how some of the MR faithful are reacting tonight?


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> WTF?!  Was that?
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384690184793595907/
> 
> I'm wondering if that's how some of the MR faithful are reacting tonight?



Tucker doesn't believe his own BS, he does it to capitalize on the billion-dollar market of bigotry (see Limbaugh's net worth). I feel vicarious embarrassment for him falling out of the role for a moment.


----------



## JayMysteri0

I think the fascinating thing we will see after this, is how others won't learn that there will always be video to record one's actions & words

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384677097491341315/

Keep showing that @$$ republicans.  Then scratch that head wondering why PoC won't support you in great numbers.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384626851511951360/

_"True justice requires that we come to terms with the fact that Black Americans are treated differently, every day. It requires us to recognize that millions of our friends, family, and fellow citizens live in fear that their next encounter with law enforcement could be their last. And it requires us to do the sometimes thankless, often difficult, but always necessary work of making the America we know more like the America we believe in."_


----------



## Joe

I’m just amazed at the amount of people upset over him being guilty. Like it was all caught on camera.


----------



## User.45

JagRunner said:


> I’m just amazed at the amount of people upset over him being guilty. Like it was all caught on camera.




Derek Chauvin is found guilty of the murder of George Floyd. r/conservative disagrees with this verdict. from
      SubredditDrama

evening entertainment.


----------



## JayMysteri0

P_X said:


> Derek Chauvin is found guilty of the murder of George Floyd. r/conservative disagrees with this verdict. from
> SubredditDrama
> 
> evening entertainment.



It gives you the feeling that these are the people who want those riots.  Who want the images of a "mob of savage animals" to justify what police have been allowed to do without repercussions.  These people who would have been happy an officer could get off, to return to duty, and possibly do it again.  To have riots take place in a city they will never see or visit, and be happy it's happening *there* and taking about a "mob of savage of animals".  All the while railing about liberal cities, and dangerous environments.

Those persons aren't sharing their views with their Black co workers.  There will be limited faux words mumbled to their faces, then more tough guy words about "mobs", "safe spaces", said online and whatever buzz words they don't say to the faces of people they would rather have police confront them instead.

Empathy becomes a more & more endangered species for some.


----------



## JayMysteri0

They won't stop.  Ever.

Whatever scale you use to weigh irony, it's snapped off screaming in searing pain after this...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384711367861616640/


----------



## Eric

JagRunner said:


> I’m just amazed at the amount of people upset over him being guilty. Like it was all caught on camera.



I'm choosing not to engage in known dumpster fires like MR or Fox News/right wing media and it's refreshing. Their attitude towards racial injustice of black people is one of many things that lost them the election, especially with the most racist president in history leading the charge. I say let them blabber on with all their hatred, they'll only reinforce a Democratic victory in the midterms.


----------



## Joe

Hurt bowed out of that thread as soon as the guilty verdict was read. LOL


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> It gives you the feeling that these are the people who want those riots.  Who want the images of a "mob of savage animals" to justify what police have been allowed to do without repercussions.  These people who would have been happy an officer could get off, to return to duty, and possibly do it again.  To have riots take place in a city they will never see or visit, and be happy it's happening *there* and taking about a "mob of savage of animals".  All the while railing about liberal cities, and dangerous environments.
> 
> Those persons aren't sharing their views with their Black co workers.  There will be limited faux words mumbled to their faces, then more tough guy words about "mobs", "safe spaces", said online and whatever buzz words they don't say to the faces of people they would rather have police confront them instead.
> 
> Empathy becomes a more & more endangered species for some.



If I go over r/Conservative, the majority agrees that it was a murder and the verdict was appripriate. They do lean towards saying jurors were intimidated, etc. So it's unfair to say that all of these people are pure evil racists, but I also think many have a very limited perspective. The big picture perspective is that a cop has a less than one-in-a-thousand chance to get convicted for killing committed on duty. I also think that before cellphone cameras, this case would have been closed shut with the police report being the final word. The discrepancy between the press release and what's on the video is the best measure of policing problems in the USA.

Now there is also a minority of voices there that you describe, who DO want property destruction, riots, etc, at best for self-assurance that they are right about "black people and those who side with them are savages" and at worst to actually hurt black communities and people as much as possible.

Lastly, I'd actually be quite happy with seeing a wave of cops leaving the force in response to this verdict, because if this isn't enough for them to call out crimes committed by their colleagues, then they should not be entrusted with the safety of the public. But I could only hope for such self-selection. In reality, "bad apples" do not remove themselves voluntarily.


----------



## SuperMatt

P_X said:


> If I go over r/Conservative, the majority agrees that it was a murder and the verdict was appripriate. They do lean towards saying jurors were intimidated, etc. So it's unfair to say that all of these people are pure evil racists, but I also think many have a very limited perspective. The big picture perspective is that a cop has a less than one-in-a-thousand chance to get convicted for killing committed on duty. I also think that before cellphone cameras, this case would have been closed shut with the police report being the final word. The discrepancy between the press release and what's on the video is the best measure of policing problems in the USA.
> 
> Now there is also a minority of voices there that you describe, who DO want property destruction, riots, etc, at best for self-assurance that they are right about "black people and those who side with them are savages" and at worst to actually hurt black communities and people as much as possible.
> 
> Lastly, I'd actually be quite happy with seeing a wave of cops leaving the force in response to this verdict, because if this isn't enough for them to call out crimes committed by their colleagues, then they should not be entrusted with the safety of the public. But I could only hope for such self-selection. In reality, "bad apples" do not remove themselves voluntarily.



Chauvin was the first white cop in the history of Minnesota to be convicted for killing a black person.

And I agree, if a police officer is going to quit because of this verdict, we don’t want them on the force. If you are on the force so you can hurt others and get away with it, good riddance.


----------



## DT

SuperMatt said:


> How can anybody with even 1/2 a brain take him seriously? That clip shows how his narrative can’t even stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny, or even somebody on simply telling the truth. The only way he can argue with others is to show out-of-context clips his staff spent hours cherry-picking to make them look a certain way that feeds his racist narrative. If the person is actually there discussing it with him, he can’t last even 30 seconds.





This may have been posted before, but WELL worth a re-post, it's amazing, and telling and really breaks that fuckwit down in typical JO style.  Warning:  some adult language.


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> This may have been posted before, but WELL worth a re-post, it's amazing, and telling and really breaks that fuckwit down in typical JO style.  Warning:  some adult language.



"some adult language", LOL. I can't watch this with my kids near because they will start screaming "FUCKIIIIIING, FUCKIIIIING!"


----------



## User.45

Simple summary:


----------



## SuperMatt

JagRunner said:


> Hurt bowed out of that thread as soon as the guilty verdict was read. LOL



He’s back now, harping on how the trial should have been moved (as if people outside of Minnesota never heard of George Floyd) and that statements from Maxine Waters (and now comments made by Joe Biden AFTER the trial for some unknown reason) somehow will invalidate the verdict. No imagination - just parroting the same baloney on every right-wing social media site and TV show.


----------



## Renzatic

SuperMatt said:


> He’s back now, harping on how the trial should have been moved (as if people outside of Minnesota never heard of George Floyd) and that statements from Maxine Waters (and now comments made by Joe Biden AFTER the trial for some unknown reason) somehow will invalidate the verdict. No imagination - just parroting the same baloney on every right-wing social media site and TV show.




Everyone has their appeal as of right. I expect Chauvin to take advantage of it, and the usual crowd to babble and scream about the charges being invalidated shortly thereafter.


----------



## Eric

Can't wait to see them using coverage of another police murder during the trial as grounds for appeal lol.


----------



## SuperMatt

To me, the most heartening thing about the trial was multiple police officers testifying AGAINST Chauvin. Saying that such behavior is NOT acceptable, nor does it match police training in any way. We need other police forces to do the right thing as well. I can understand there are times to protect your fellow officer from false claims, but when they clearly broke the law and/or abused their position, you need to hold them accountable.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> Everyone has their appeal as of right. I expect Chauvin to take advantage of it, and the usual crowd to babble and scream about the charges being invalidated shortly thereafter.



Only Chauvin will be taking advantage of that behind bars , hoping it provides security for him, from the OTHER inmates.


----------



## shadow puppet

JayMysteri0 said:


> Only Chauvin will be taking advantage of that behind bars , hoping it provides security for him, from the OTHER inmates.



I've been wondering what may happen to Chauvin once in prison.  The future does not look pretty or safe.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

I heard it suggested that the more the police get successfully prosecuted for these incidents then the less these incidents will happen. That’s good but by extension it is saying cops are a little trigger happy because they know it will be hard to prosecute them. But regardless, if a little mental attitude adjustment will help to decrease these incidents then good. Still waiting for police reform to happen, and that doesn’t just mean tossing more or less money at them.


----------



## User.45

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I heard it suggested that the more the police get successfully prosecuted for these incidents then the less these incidents will happen. That’s good but by extension it is saying cops are a little trigger happy because they know it will be hard to prosecute them. But regardless, if a little mental attitude adjustment will help to decrease these incidents then good. Still waiting for police reform to happen, and that doesn’t just mean tossing more or less money at them.



What makes me sad really, is if it's legitimate to expect violence/resistance from a person based on his criminal record, it is also reasonable expect higher risk of excess use of force by a cop who has a track record of such. 

Cops who are in it to hurt people accumulate complaints that again predict future risk of excess use of force. Which takes us back to, if Chauvin was removed from the streets, Floyd would not have been killed that day. Based on the cost of settlements, it is very likely to be more cost efficient to actually just remove the people who are at highest risk to get in trouble that gets settled. Like Lt. Nazario's case. If he gets 1M, how many years of service by 2 cops could be covered by that much money?! Plenty.


----------



## thekev

SuperMatt said:


> He’s back now, harping on how the trial should have been moved (as if people outside of Minnesota never heard of George Floyd) and that statements from Maxine Waters (and now comments made by Joe Biden AFTER the trial for some unknown reason) somehow will invalidate the verdict. No imagination - just parroting the same baloney on every right-wing social media site and TV show.




Unless they influenced the jury in some way prior to deliberation, I'm unsure of the problem.



JayMysteri0 said:


> I think the fascinating thing we will see after this, is how others won't learn that there will always be video to record one's actions & words
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1384677097491341315/
> 
> Keep showing that @$$ republicans.  Then scratch that head wondering why PoC won't support you in great numbers.




She said it will drive law enforcement to quit, but this is an incomplete picture. If it drives bad cops to quit at a disproportionate rate, this is a good thing. If they both identify with Chauvin and put in their resignation, that is a positive thing.



P_X said:


> If he gets 1M, how many years of service by 2 cops could be covered by that much money?! Plenty.




Depends on overtime..


----------



## User.45

thekev said:


> Unless they influenced the jury in some way prior to deliberation, I'm unsure of the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> She said it will drive law enforcement to quit, but this is an incomplete picture. If it drives bad cops to quit at a disproportionate rate, this is a good thing. If they both identify with Chauvin and put in their resignation, that is a positive thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on overtime..



Oh, I know Some cops got busted for making 200-300K in overtime in my city


----------



## Pumbaa

P_X said:


> Oh, I know Some cops got busted for making 200-300K in overtime in my city



That makes them smart.

Were they fired for being too smart to be cops?


----------



## DT

SuperMatt said:


> He’s back now, harping on how the trial should have been moved (as if people outside of Minnesota never heard of George Floyd) and that statements from Maxine Waters (and now comments made by Joe Biden AFTER the trial for some unknown reason) somehow will invalidate the verdict. No imagination - just parroting the same baloney on every right-wing social media site and TV show.




Yeah, he crawled off to some right-wing shit-show sites, cut and pasted a bunch of nonsense into a text document, and now he's back, fully armed and loaded, hahahaha ....


----------



## User.45

Pumbaa said:


> That makes them smart.
> 
> Were they fired for being too smart to be cops?



"suspended". But there were multiple cops like that so I can't even keep track, LOL.


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> Yeah, he crawled off to some right-wing shit-show sites, cut and pasted a bunch of nonsense into a text document, and now he's back, fully armed and loaded, hahahaha ....



I seriously think that's what he does, because the moment his argument is taken apart he disappears and restarts the cycle with some new pseudorandom shit he picks up from Breitbart.


----------



## SuperMatt

DT said:


> Yeah, he crawled off to some right-wing shit-show sites, cut and pasted a bunch of nonsense into a text document, and now he's back, fully armed and loaded, hahahaha ....



Truer words were never spoken. That’s why there was no immediate response to the verdict. He had to read the right-wing talking points and regurgitate. No original thought going on there whatsoever.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

P_X said:


> What makes me sad really, is if it's legitimate to expect violence/resistance from a person based on his criminal record, it is also reasonable expect higher risk of excess use of force by a cop who has a track record of such.
> 
> Cops who are in it to hurt people accumulate complaints that again predict future risk of excess use of force. Which takes us back to, if Chauvin was removed from the streets, Floyd would not have been killed that day. Based on the cost of settlements, it is very likely to be more cost efficient to actually just remove the people who are at highest risk to get in trouble that gets settled. Like Lt. Nazario's case. If he gets 1M, how many years of service by 2 cops could be covered by that much money?! Plenty.




I tend to think people who are hyper supportive of the police are probably conservative and of the fiscal variety.   How they aren’t going ballistic over the bottomless taxpayer slush fund used to pay for millions and millions of dollars in won civil suits against cops blows my mind.

I’d like to see some data on exactly how much money is spent on that compared to the cost of whatever they typically think is a waste of taxpayer money.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

P_X said:


> Oh, I know Some cops got busted for making 200-300K in overtime in my city




Part of my police reform would be pay cops more but heavily restrict overtime.  Nobody should be around that much potential stress and negativity on more than 8 hours a day or 40 hours per week.

I would even cut into their normal hours by mandating regular wellness checkins and possibly group support on the clock and not just only when they shot somebody.  Also regular descalation training and practice on the clock.  So 40 hours a week wouldn’t just be on the streets or filling out paperwork.


----------



## Joe

SuperMatt said:


> He’s back now, harping on how the trial should have been moved (as if people outside of Minnesota never heard of George Floyd) and that statements from Maxine Waters (and now comments made by Joe Biden AFTER the trial for some unknown reason) somehow will invalidate the verdict. No imagination - just parroting the same baloney on every right-wing social media site and TV show.




Sounds about right - he went to get his talking points from Fox News and then came back.


----------



## User.45

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Part of my police reform would be pay cops more but heavily restrict overtime.  Nobody should be around that much potential stress and negativity on more than 8 hours a day or 40 hours per week.
> 
> I would even cut into their normal hours by mandating regular wellness checkins and possibly group support on the clock and not just only when they shot somebody.  Also regular descalation training and practice on the clock.  So 40 hours a week wouldn’t just be on the streets or filling out paperwork.




1. Monetary reward to those meeting work benchmarks without substantiated complaints. => Boom, the money saved from decreasing settlements can go to these cops
2. Establish an independent oversight system to assess complaints.
3. Decouple DAs from police oversight - there's a clear conflict of interest
4. Curtail overtime for excessive force 
5. Remove from the streets repeat excessive force users
6. Establish a collective departmental bonus system for reduction of excessive use of force complaints

If you have any doubts this would be better use of money look at these:


			https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/annual-claims-report/
		


NYC has a ~220M budget per year for just Police settlements. Thats around 6K/cop. Insane, if you ask me.


----------



## Thomas Veil

shadow puppet said:


> I've been wondering what may happen to Chauvin once in prison.  The future does not look pretty or safe.



Oh, they _love_ cops in prison.   Especially when the cop in question is guilty in the most infamous racist murder in recent memory.

And Chauvin isn't a big guy, either. I may make light of how the prison population will receive him, but seriously, I do wonder about his safety.



Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I tend to think people who are hyper supportive of the police...



You reminded me of something that they've been doing in Ohio for the last four years or so. You're supposed to deck out your house in blue light to show you support the cops.

This always has me conflicted. In my own relatively small city, as far as I can tell, the cops are fine. But on the whole, campaigns like this at a _time_ like this seem _remarkably_ tone deaf.



Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Part of my police reform would be pay cops more but heavily restrict overtime.  Nobody should be around that much potential stress and negativity on more than 8 hours a day or 40 hours per week.
> 
> I would even cut into their normal hours by mandating regular wellness checkins and possibly group support on the clock and not just only when they shot somebody.  Also regular descalation training and practice on the clock.  So 40 hours a week wouldn’t just be on the streets or filling out paperwork.



Those are not bad ideas. I can only add my own: hire more black cops.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Thomas Veil said:


> Oh, they _love_ cops in prison.   Especially when the cop in question is guilty in the most infamous racist murder in recent memory.
> 
> And Chauvin isn't a big guy, either. I may make light of how the prison population will receive him, but seriously, I do wonder about his safety.
> 
> 
> You reminded me of something that they've been doing in Ohio for the last four years or so. You're supposed to deck out your house in blue light to show you support the cops.
> 
> This always has me conflicted. In my own relatively small city, as far as I can tell, the cops are fine. But on the whole, campaigns like this at a _time_ like this seem _remarkably_ tone deaf.
> 
> 
> Those are not bad ideas. I can only add my own: hire more black cops.




I don't know if the Trump winning era brought this on, but it seems now that when a certain group has a grievance the knee-jerk response from those sympathetic to the target of that grievance is to fire back even louder with "I/they aren't personally aren't part of that problem!".  It's a really bizarre display of self-importance trying to suck the oxygen out of the room, but it's also the result of people instantly jumping to tribalism in both the accusation and defense.  I commend the prosecution for reminding the jury this case wasn't about the entire police department.  It was about one cop.  unfortunately I feel if the prosecution didn't give the jury that reminder then their decision making might have weighed more heavily towards the police department, police culture, and possible repercussions well beyond this specific case.  

I think when people hear reform they think of the punitive variety if for no other reason than we are a vengeful and spiteful society, but for my reform ideas about the only thing that is punitive is if you are too much of a tough guy then you probably won't be a cop much longer, too tough guy for regular ongoing therapy and retraining on methods to assure everybody involved in a confrontation is seen as human.

I also think we need a lot more "that's understandable".  If you are going to spend a lot of your time around a certain group of people behaving badly then it's understandable how you might gain some negative preconceptions about that group of people, and "understandable" doesn't mean its the correct view or you agree with it.  It means you can see how they got that view through their experience.  You can't deal with that by going "You can't think or say that, you monster!  Bottle it up!".   You deal with it by talking about it and using methods to counter that negative bias.  And to be honest, there are many people who have negative biases who have nowhere near the personal experiences of cops.  I'd argue a good percentage of people in this country who have extreme negative feelings about Muslims haven't actually met any beyond just seeing them in public doing normal things we all do.  Their entire solid opinion is based on negative media coverage of specific events.


----------



## SuperMatt

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I don't know if the Trump winning era brought this on, but it seems now that when a certain group has a grievance the knee-jerk response from those sympathetic to the target of that grievance is to fire back even louder with "I/they aren't personally aren't part of that problem!".  It's a really bizarre display of self-importance trying to suck the oxygen out of the room, but it's also the result of people instantly jumping to tribalism in both the accusation and defense.  I commend the prosecution for reminding the jury this case wasn't about the entire police department.  It was about one cop.  unfortunately I feel if the prosecution didn't give the jury that reminder then their decision making might have weighed more heavily towards the police department, police culture, and possible repercussions well beyond this specific case.
> 
> I think when people hear reform they think of the punitive variety if for no other reason than we are a vengeful and spiteful society, but for my reform ideas about the only thing that is punitive is if you are too much of a tough guy then you probably won't be a cop much longer, too tough guy for regular ongoing therapy and retraining on methods to assure everybody involved in a confrontation is seen as human.
> 
> I also think we need a lot more "that's understandable".  If you are going to spend a lot of your time around a certain group of people behaving badly then it's understandable how you might gain some negative preconceptions about that group of people, and "understandable" doesn't mean its the correct view or you agree with it.  It means you can see how they got that view through their experie.  You can't deal with that by going "You can't think or say that, you monster!  Bottle it up!".   You deal with it by talking about it and using methods to counter that negative bias.  And to be honest, there are many people who have negative biases who have nowhere near the personal experiences of cops.  I'd argue a good percentage of people in this country who have extreme negative feelings about Muslims haven't actually met any beyond just seeing them in public doing normal things we all do.  Their entire solid opinion is based on negative media coverage of specific events.



Almost everybody who thinks defund the police will destroy America doesn’t live in a place that NEEDS a movement like defund the police… OR they are among the group of folks who don’t get bothered by police if they DO live in an area like that. Philando Castile was pulled over *FORTY-NINE TIMES* by police, almost all for minor infractions like a “cracked taillight.” Is this what the police are there for? Just get more traffic cameras. I know white people who drive 80MPH+ everywhere they go and almost never get pulled over. 

Defund the police is perhaps an overreaction, but the idea of looking at police budgets, looking at what police are actually doing, and how those things could be done better or more efficiently is just plain good governance. Funny that the same folks who complain about government spending suddenly act offended when anybody wants to look at an out-of-control police or military budget.


----------



## Pumbaa

SuperMatt said:


> Almost everybody who thinks defund the police will destroy America doesn’t live in a place that NEEDS a movement like defund the police… OR they are among the group of folks who don’t get bothered by police if they DO live in an area like that. Philando Castile was pulled over *FORTY-NINE TIMES* by police, almost all for minor infractions like a “cracked taillight.” Is this what the police are there for? Just get more traffic cameras. I know white people who drive 80MPH+ everywhere they go and almost never get pulled over.
> 
> Defund the police is perhaps an overreaction, but the idea of looking at police budgets, looking at what police are actually doing, and how those things could be done better or more efficiently is just plain good governance. Funny that the same folks who complain about government spending suddenly act offended when anybody wants to look at an out-of-control police or military budget.



The reforms desired by the defund the police movement & friends should be seriously considered.

Calling it “defund the police” on the other hand is extremely stupid and counterproductive in my opinion. I’d bet most people who thinks defund the police will destroy America ain’t got a clue what is being asked for, all they get to hear is “abolish the police”. Sure, there is absolutely an overlap as well with people not getting bothered by police, but they could theoretically be interested in more efficient use of their tax money.

I get the impression that the conservatives are way better at PR and naming things than groups with more liberal views are. Can we find an alternate name for “defund the police” that is catchy and conveys that we want to get _better police_ and services for the money, rather than getting rid of police and letting criminals wreak havoc?


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

SuperMatt said:


> Almost everybody who thinks defund the police will destroy America doesn’t live in a place that NEEDS a movement like defund the police… OR they are among the group of folks who don’t get bothered by police if they DO live in an area like that. Philando Castile was pulled over *FORTY-NINE TIMES* by police, almost all for minor infractions like a “cracked taillight.” Is this what the police are there for? Just get more traffic cameras. I know white people who drive 80MPH+ everywhere they go and almost never get pulled over.
> 
> Defund the police is perhaps an overreaction, but the idea of looking at police budgets, looking at what police are actually doing, and how those things could be done better or more efficiently is just plain good governance. Funny that the same folks who complain about government spending suddenly act offended when anybody wants to look at an out-of-control police or military budget.




Defund the Police is a stupid reactionary name for obvious reasons, but Reallocate Some Funds From the Police to Other Departments Better Equipped For Specific Special Circumstances doesn’t just roll off the tongue as much, but you can’t make me believe a cop wouldn’t appreciate another department being the front line on calls involving severe mental illness or a related psychotic episode that isn’t life threatening. It seems like more times than not somebody placing a call to the police informs them if there is mental illness involved or the suspect experiencing the episode wasn’t an imminent deadly threat to their life or others until after the police arrived.


----------



## SuperMatt

Pumbaa said:


> The reforms desired by the defund the police movement & friends should be seriously considered.
> 
> Calling it “defund the police” on the other hand is extremely stupid and counterproductive in my opinion. I’d bet most people who thinks defund the police will destroy America ain’t got a clue what is being asked for, all they get to hear is “abolish the police”. Sure, there is absolutely an overlap as well with people not getting bothered by police, but they could theoretically be interested in more efficient use of their tax money.
> 
> I get the impression that the conservatives are way better at PR and naming things than groups with more liberal views are. Can we find an alternate name for “defund the police” that is catchy and conveys that we want to get _better police_ and services for the money, rather than getting rid of police and letting criminals wreak havoc?



I think “defund the police” is quite popular in areas where the police are well-known for their bad behavior, and the residents are told there is no money for social services or better schools because of the police budget. Honestly, if Trump voters who live in areas where the police don’t bother them, or they have very few police (rural areas) are upset by it, who cares? In the end, the police of a city are governed by that city. Representatives from rural Louisiana are completely inconsequential in the politics of Minneapolis or Ferguson.

And let’s be absolutely clear. Right-wingers KNOW that defund the police is about cutting the crazy-high budgets, and diverting those funds to necessary social services. But they choose to focus on that one guy in the protest who insists that defund means abolish all police officers in the world. And even if that guy is imaginary, the right-wing will choose to believe not only that he exists, but that he represents what everybody calling for “defund” thinks.

Just look at the “you didn’t build that” from the right-wing to see that it’s not “defund the police” that is the problem. The outrage-generating machine called Fox will find SOME quote said by SOME person and take it out of context to declare that liberals are out to destroy America.


----------



## JayMysteri0

P_X said:


> Oh, I know Some cops got busted for making 200-300K in overtime in my city



I always remember this article when that topic comes up.



> New York’s best-paid public employees are Long Island cops
> 
> 
> Crime-fighting pays! Nearly all of the best-paid public employees in New York state are police officers, according to a new report released by the Empire Center for Public Policy. The think tank’s …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com




New York, one of the most expensive places to live, and in 2018 those were the two highest paid public employees.





SuperMatt said:


> Defund the police is perhaps an overreaction, but the idea of looking at police budgets, looking at what police are actually doing, and how those things could be done better or more efficiently is just plain good governance. Funny that the same folks who complain about government spending suddenly act offended when anybody wants to look at an out-of-control police or military budget.




I'd argue that it isn't that "Defund the police" is an overreaction, it's often the assumptions tied to it.  As in MR where sept brought out her violins for her husband, her husband is over qualified & over worked, because NOT enough police seem to be there.  Defund the police wouldn't even be considered there, unless the officers are spending 90% of their time writing tickets to completely bankroll the police department.  It's with her, hurt, tsimp, and others who play like "defund the police" is some kind of national mandate.  It isn't.

Defund the police is on a case by case basis.  For the crowd that gets bent out of shape saying people lump all officers in the bad category, they don't realize they are doing it as well by assuming defunding means ALL police.  Defunding is for places where things break down so bad, the DoJ stops by and asks "WTF?"

The STAR program works in some places, but won't work everywhere.  NOT everywhere needs to abolish their police to weed out the bad officers they can't because of contracts.  Many police departments work absolutely fine, and may need as you say their budgets looked over a little more closely.

But for some...





Really?!


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> I'd argue that it isn't that "Defund the police" is an overreaction, it's often the assumptions tied to it. As in MR where sept brought out her violins for her husband, her husband is over qualified & over worked, because NOT enough police seem to be there. Defund the police wouldn't even be considered there, unless the officers are spending 90% of their time writing tickets to completely bankroll the police department. It's with her, hurt, tsimp, and others who play like "defund the police" is some kind of national mandate. It isn't.



I agree 100%. Who cares if everybody on the right is mad about “defund the police”? Most of them think Chauvin should run for governor instead of going to prison. They also wanted to throw out ballots in states that didn’t have the same restrictive voting rules as Texas... But then are outraged that Congress would pass a bill standardizing voting procedures across the country, because THEY don’t want to be told what to do in THEIR state.

The GOP is like a party run by toddlers. Nothing you can do will please them, so don’t even try. If they get mad at “defund the police” - say it louder. Sorry, I’m sick of them. If they’re gonna spend 4 years telling everybody else to F their feelings, they can do the same for the next 8-12 years (hopefully at least) while Democrats are in charge.

Defund won’t work nationwide, and it was never meant to. So if your town, village, city, whatever... needs to divert funds from the cops to other priorities, shout it loud and proud and get it done!


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## SuperMatt

Pumbaa said:


> I get the impression that the conservatives are way better at PR and naming things than groups with more liberal views are. Can we find an alternate name for “defund the police” that is catchy and conveys that we want to get _better police_ and services for the money, rather than getting rid of police and letting criminals wreak havoc?



I don’t know what it is, but they certainly aren’t offering anything of substance. Maybe they appeal to people dumb enough to simply believe in catchy slogans instead of actually thinking through issues, or *gasp* thinking for themselves? I don’t know, but the GOP has become absolutely tribal at this point. They threw out massive pillars of their party platform just because Trump didn’t like them. That is tribalism + cult of personality. A very dangerous combination.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

SuperMatt said:


> The GOP is like a party run by toddlers. Nothing you can do will please them, so don’t even try.




At this point the GOP is completely run by Fox News. It’s like the right’s version of the deep state. Nobody voted for Fox News on a ballot but that’s who is running things.

Speaking of which, Fox News seems to spend a lot of time reporting on what other news networks are reporting and I don’t see that happening from other news sources.

“Yo, I heard you like news sites. So we report about news sites on our news site.”


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## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1385218467083788297/


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## Chew Toy McCoy

After Chauvin's conviction for Floyd murder, DOJ weighs charging him for 2017 incident involving Black teen: Source
					

Federal investigators probing Derek Chauvin's use of force against George Floyd are also weighing charging him for a 2017 incident involving a Black teen, a source said.




					abcnews.go.com
				




So many layers of WTF there.


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## Yoused

ok, what? 

*The email, titled “White Student Support Group” was sent by Piedmont Unified School District’s assistant superintendent to students at the district’s two high schools the day after jurors in Minnesota convicted Chauvin on April 20. The email offered a “restorative community circle … to support White students who would like to discuss how the trial, verdict, and experiences related to the George Floyd murder are impacting you.”

Following criticism over her note, Assistant Superintendent Cheryl Wozniak sent an apology email on April 22, explaining that the support circle for White students was supposed to be about how White students could be “allies” to people of color.*​
Yeah, it was supposed to be how you can make black friends, yeah, yeah, that's it, that's the ticket. (s I am believing it /s)


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## SuperMatt

The NY Times did a focus group with conservatives, asking them about George Floyd. Many of the responses are about what you’d expect, but I found the responses from a Columbus schoolteacher truly nasty:



> Taylor: I’m a teacher in Columbus. My school’s, like, 99 percent African-Americans. So there was almost, like, a pressure on me that after that if I didn’t show some kind of sympathy towards it. It was almost kind of like, I was viewed as lesser than.
> 
> So I would have to have these conversations with my students. And I was so conflicted because I’m just like, OK, we’re focusing in on this. But we don’t even know all the details. But I’m having to have these conversations with my students that are 100 percent gung ho. And I’m like, I’m so torn.
> 
> Over the course of this past year, I have grown more and more skeptical and have been very, not paranoid but just very — skeptical is the best word of just what they really, truly stand for, how they use their funds for corrupt leaders. Their mission is not condemning violence in some areas. But then they’ll condemn it in others. It’s like, you can’t have it both ways.
> 
> Now I’m to the point where the mention of Black Lives Matter, when I read projects from my students — all the time they focus on things to do with race — I’m just like, I’m done. I’m very much over it.



Imagine this guy as your teacher.


> Taylor: I think overwhelmingly when you look at 26 million people, yes, probably statistically they were a majority peaceful. But what we saw and what the majority of people were led to believe was that it wasn’t.
> 
> I know my family owns restaurants in downtown Cincinnati. And the fact that even if they were peaceful, the fact that they had to close down every other day for weeks on end, not because of Covid but because of fears of getting their windows knocked in.



This is utter BS. Restaurants were closed due to COVID. Just because his family had fear doesn’t mean there was actual danger. There were some places that boarded themselves up after the George Floyd murder here in DC. Most places didn’t. Guess which prominent building did? The CATO institute.

Then there is this baloney that I really dislike:



> Patrick Healy: But just listening to your students’ experiences, your Black students’ experiences, did that influence your thinking about the group or the idea at all?
> 
> Taylor: I mean, I think, as a teacher, you have to keep an open mind to an extent. You have to be able to at least listen. So I’ve definitely listened to my students because I’m not Black. And I don’t know what they’re going through. And I will never be able to be fully in their shoes.
> 
> They don’t see me as, like, a sympathizer with white people or with cops. They see me as, well, we’re going to talk about it with you. But you’ll never fully understand.
> 
> Louis (from Arizona): I don’t think anyone knows how anyone else feels because they can’t walk in their shoes. So Black people can’t walk in my shoes. And I can’t walk in their shoes, OK? We can only imagine what’s gone on.



If one cannot fathom what it is like to be black, then one has a crappy imagination. Ok, then watch Roots. Talk to black people about it. Listen. When people say this, they aren’t even trying. They just don’t give a , because they are white and it will never affect them.

Full article (paywall probably):

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/opinion/conservatives-race-blm-floyd.html


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## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> The NY Times did a focus group with conservatives, asking them about George Floyd. Many of the responses are about what you’d expect, but I found the responses from a Columbus schoolteacher truly nasty:
> 
> 
> Imagine this guy as your teacher.
> 
> This is utter BS. Restaurants were closed due to COVID. Just because his family had fear doesn’t mean there was actual danger. There were some places that boarded themselves up after the George Floyd murder here in DC. Most places didn’t. Guess which prominent building did? The CATO institute.
> 
> Then there is this baloney that I really dislike:
> 
> 
> If one cannot fathom what it is like to be black, then one has a crappy imagination. Ok, then watch Roots. Talk to black people about it. Listen. When people say this, they aren’t even trying. They just don’t give a , because they are white and it will never affect them.
> 
> Full article (paywall probably):
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/opinion/conservatives-race-blm-floyd.html



https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1396581938270515200/

THIS is what blows my mind.

WHY the FUCK does ANYONE care about what 45 supporters think in this matter?  Is anything revealed a shock?  No.  If anything it just makes that group look even more deplorable, even though they get in their feels when you call them that.  That's just an article that did NOT need to happen.


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## Pumbaa

JayMysteri0 said:


> THIS is what blows my mind.
> 
> *WHY the FUCK does ANYONE care about what 45 supporters think in this matter?*  Is anything revealed a shock?  No.  If anything it just makes that group look even more deplorable, even though they get in their feels when you call them that.  That's just an article that did NOT need to happen.



Clicks/Shares.


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## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1396581938270515200/
> 
> THIS is what blows my mind.
> 
> WHY the FUCK does ANYONE care about what 45 supporters think in this matter?  Is anything revealed a shock?  No.  If anything it just makes that group look even more deplorable, even though they get in their feels when you call them that.  That's just an article that did NOT need to happen.



Some NY Times readers might be in a bit of an echo chamber, so maybe this was news to them? This is part of a larger series on the Floyd murder, coming at it from multiple angles.


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## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> Some NY Times readers might be in a bit of an echo chamber, so maybe this was news to them? This is part of a larger series on the Floyd murder, coming at it from multiple angles.



That's like saying this is from multiple angles...




Naaaahh!  You kind of have an idea of what might happen.


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## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1396581938270515200/
> 
> THIS is what blows my mind.
> 
> WHY the FUCK does ANYONE care about what 45 supporters think in this matter?  Is anything revealed a shock?  No.  If anything it just makes that group look even more deplorable, even though they get in their feels when you call them that.  That's just an article that did NOT need to happen.



I started listening and lost interest. They warmed up the focus group with simple descriptions of Trump. And amongst BS like "A true American example" etc, there was only one guy who said, a "Narcissist who's surprisingly effective." That's the only person whose opinion I would be interested in the group, the opinions of the rest I know without having to listen.


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## Pumbaa

JayMysteri0 said:


> That's like saying this is from multiple angles...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naaaahh!  You kind of have an idea of what might happen.



True. But imagine actually having multiple angles of that incident and then adding Yakety Sax as soundtrack!

As part of a larger piece on the Floyd murder the 45 supporters’ view might actually be relevant to put everything in context. I mean, the murder was not an isolated incident. It wasn’t just a bad donut/apple. America got history. Something is rotten. Things are connected.

Not saying that NY Times is writing what needs to be written. Just that it could theoretically be possible to make the 45 angle relevant.


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## SuperMatt

The other officers involved with the death of George Floyd are facing a civil rights trial. I am not sure where they got their defense lawyers, but one of them seems to be going all-in on racist dog whistles.



> Earl Gray, a lawyer for Lane, said Floyd was visibly intoxicated when Lane and Kueng first approached him and struggled against being put into the back of their police car.
> 
> "*He was all muscle*," Gray said. "These two rookies simply could not get this fellow in the back seat and were clearly doing something wrong. So what does Chauvin do? He takes over and he grabs the guy and he puts him on the ground."



I thought this offensive painting of black people as uncontrollable savages was gone forever. I guess not.

Another lawyer also called Floyd’s death a tragedy, not a crime. O RLY? Then why is Derek Chauvin sitting in prison on a murder conviction?



> Earlier, Thao’s attorney, Robert Paule, said Floyd’s death was a tragedy, “however, a tragedy is not a crime.” He also said a widely watched bystander video of the arrest does not show everything that happened before, including Floyd struggling with officers who were trying to put him in a police vehicle.












						Defense: Derek Chauvin called ‘all of the shots’ when George Floyd killed
					

U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson told jurors that the trial could last four weeks.




					www.twincities.com


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