# Did you know? (A thread about MLB labor stoppage)



## tobefirst

Were you guys even aware that there is a labor stoppage in baseball? As someone living in St. Louis, where baseball is religion, I'm being a bit facetious, but it does seem there aren't many people paying attention. Do you care about this? What is causing the perceived apathy? (Or am I wrong about the apathy and my premise is off?)


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## SuperMatt

tobefirst said:


> Were you guys even aware that there is a labor stoppage in baseball? As someone living in St. Louis, where baseball is religion, I'm being a bit facetious, but it does seem there aren't many people paying attention. Do you care about this? What is causing the perceived apathy? (Or am I wrong about the apathy and my premise is off?)



Baseball season doesn’t start until March 31, so people might assume they will work things out before then? I bet you will see a lot more attention if there’s no contract by mid-March.


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## tobefirst

Well, here we go.

"Major League Baseball will begin canceling regular-season games if the league and the MLBPA can't come to terms on a new collective bargaining agreement by Monday, a league spokesperson said Wednesday."


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## Herdfan

tobefirst said:


> Were you guys even aware that there is a labor stoppage in baseball? As someone living in St. Louis, where baseball is religion, I'm being a bit facetious, but it does seem there aren't many people paying attention. Do you care about this? What is causing the perceived apathy? (Or am I wrong about the apathy and my premise is off?)





SuperMatt said:


> Baseball season doesn’t start until March 31, so people might assume they will work things out before then? I bet you will see a lot more attention if there’s no contract by mid-March.




@SuperMatt is right.  Only the diehard fans pay attention to Spring Training so as you noted, there is an apathy because most people aren't paying attention yet.

But baseball has gotten boring.  And I say this as someone who played some form of it from ages 6 to 46.  The analytics people have ruined the game.  And not in a _Moneyball_ sort of way.  Build your team based on whatever you want, but the whole concept of letting the front office decide what pitch to throw in what situation because the numbers say you have the best chance......  Stop it.  Just Stop it.


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## tobefirst

One could argue that analytics has *optimized* the game. It has "solved" baseball (as if it were a board game) in its current form – the rules as they are, the surface being played on, the fences at their current distances. It has been brought to the logical conclusion. And you're right, @Herdfan, it's 100% boring.


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## SuperMatt

Add in the nonsense where teams can add like 50 extra players to the roster for the postseason, and you see a new pitcher every inning.. Just a snooze-fest.


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## DT

I might have to get into baseball, we're looking at some places where you can see PNC Park


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## Herdfan

tobefirst said:


> One could argue that analytics has *optimized* the game.




I like that it has made it so small-market teams can compete.  That is the _Moneyball_/Bill James aspect of it.  

But the idea that you can only win games by hitting home runs is just wrong.  I was a dead pull hitter, so I would probably have faced a shift with the 2B behind the actual second base.  And you know what, I would have learned to slap it in the hole where the 2B was supposed to be.  Yeah, that hard liner over the SS is fun to watch, but the end result is the same, you are standing on 1B.  



SuperMatt said:


> Add in the nonsense where teams can add like 50 extra players to the roster for the postseason, and you see a new pitcher every inning.. Just a snooze-fest.






I think they need to lower the mound again.  They did it in 1969 because Bob Gibson totally dominated hitters and it worked.  People want to see hits and base runners.  Not dominant pitchers.


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## mac_in_tosh

So much wrong with baseball today, including:

o A home run used to be something special, now it's a commonplace event.

o Seemingly endless playoffs, and with the possibility that a ~.500 team could win a short series against a team that dominated them in the regular season. Makes the long regular season somewhat irrelevant.

o Does the batter have to walk out of the batter's box and adjust his gloves after every pitch? Does the pitcher have to take 30 seconds to throw each pitch? Games are too long.

o It's unfathomable to me that a batter would face an empty side of the infield, due to a shift, and not just bunt it there. (I realize that some younger fans out there might not know what bunt means).

o Electronic strike zone is needed. Although I'm a traditionalist, there are too many times where the superimposed rectangle clearly shows that the ump was wrong. The calling of balls and strikes shouldn't depend on which ump is behind the plate.

o Where are the unique characters in the game? Does anyone have nicknames now like they used to: The Splendid Splinter, The Say Hey Kid, The Sultan of Swat The Big Hurt etc. ?


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## Herdfan

mac_in_tosh said:


> o Electronic strike zone is needed. Although I'm a traditionalist, there are too many times where the superimposed rectangle clearly shows that the ump was wrong. The calling of balls and strikes shouldn't depend on which ump is behind the plate.




I agree on everything else you wrote except this.  As long as the plate umpire is consistent, it is fine.  Pitchers and catchers have to learn the tendencies of each umpire (and to a lesser degree, so do the hitters).  This just adds an element of difficulty (beauty) to the game.   

Baseball is built on being slightly different.  In football & basketball, the field/court is exactly the same no matter where it's played.  Baseball has some unique fields: Fenway with the  green monster, Wrigley with the Ivy covered brick walls, the field I can't remember with the rising ground in center.  This makes the game special and I think electronic balls and strikes would lessen it.


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## mac_in_tosh

Herdfan said:


> I agree on everything else you wrote except this.  As long as the plate umpire is consistent, it is fine.  Pitchers and catchers have to learn the tendencies of each umpire (and to a lesser degree, so do the hitters).  This just adds an element of difficulty (beauty) to the game.



I understand your position on this and do have some agreement with it. It's just that with the superimposed rectangle it's easy to see ump errors, which sometime significantly affect the outcome of the game, and which can show a lack of consistency.

While I'm at it, I forgot to mention one thing - bat flips. To me it's just poor sportsmanship. I remember a Mantle interview from years ago where he was asked about his home run trot - he would keep his head down as he rounded the bases. He said he didn't want to show up the pitcher. Now of course there might have been some element of concern about the next time he was up and how the pitcher might throw one inside on him, but I think for the most part the humility was genuine.


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## SuperMatt

Well, the league made an offer, and the players *unanimously* rejected it. The season is going to be delayed.









						MLB cancels first 2 series after no deadline deal
					

MLB commissioner Rob Manfred said the first two series of the regular season have been canceled after the players' union rejected the league's CBA offer ahead of a 5 p.m. ET deadline.




					www.espn.com
				




Since this is a lockout, it looks like the league thinks the players are getting too good of a deal under the prior contract?


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## mac_in_tosh

Well, that's one way to shorten the season, something a lot of people were recommending anyhow.


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## yaxomoxay

I am bummed by this. I was looking forward to a few nights at the ballpark. 

I will survive anyways. I am also watching UFC, MLS (soccer) and… cricket (on TV). Went to the FC Dallas game last week, had a blast!


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## Herdfan

yaxomoxay said:


> I am bummed by this. I was looking forward to a few nights at the ballpark.




Yeah baseball is always something you can watch on TV for 15 minutes or so waiting for a show to start or just killing time.  Plus I try to go to a game or two a year.

If you look at the numbers, the sides really aren't that far apart except with the CBT.   ESPN's Jeff Passan thinks if they don't get a deal done in the next 10 days to so, it will be a long stoppage.


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## yaxomoxay

Herdfan said:


> Yeah baseball is always something you can watch on TV for 15 minutes or so waiting for a show to start or just killing time.  Plus I try to go to a game or two a year.
> 
> If you look at the numbers, the sides really aren't that far apart except with the CBT.   ESPN's Jeff Passan thinks if they don't get a deal done in the next 10 days to so, it will be a long stoppage.



Yeah, this is almost entirely on the owners. I think we’ll have half a season at most.


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## DT

yaxomoxay said:


> I am bummed by this. I was looking forward to a few nights at the ballpark.




Of all the sporting events I've been to (outside of Mo-Spo), I've had the most fun at baseball games, talking hockey, football, just because the game is almost secondary   You can go to the clubhouse, have a beer, go to the batting cages, talk some business, eat a hot dog, eventually make it back to your seats in time to see plenty of game


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## SuperMatt

Good news for baseball fans!









						MLB owners vote to ratify CBA, ending lockout
					

MLB commissioner Rob Manfred and union chief Tony Clark hailed the new collective bargaining agreement Thursday, which halted the league's 99-day lockout and salvaged a 162-game season.




					www.espn.com
				




Growing up in WNY, we didn’t have a major league team. After I moved to the DC area, they created the Nationals and I’ve been a fan. I usually hit a few games a year, and was lucky to attend the Wildcard game the year they won the World Series (and one WS game too, but they lost all their home games in that series).

One possible bit of bad news, depending on your feelings on the issue. Part of the agreement is:



> *• The National League adopting the designated hitter*


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## lizkat

I am so ready for baseball.   Yeah the dh thing, but i'm over it.  If you read the rest of the summary points in the contract,  there are plenty of other things one might bemoan but I'm over most of that stuff too even though the game, the players, the owners, the cost of a stadium and the tickets and the parking are all so over the top.   Let's just...  play ball.

Actually I'm not over Cleveland naming themselves the Guardians.  Guess I should be grateful they didn't pick Comedians.


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## yaxomoxay

Get ready for the FA frenzy tonight.


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## lizkat

Trying to decide how to try to watch games this year.   There's a bundle now with Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu, so maybe I'll try that.    Last year for just the World Series i took a month of YTTV but i'm not going to shell out for that for the regular season, I wouldn't make enough use of it,


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## ronntaylor

Haven't been to a Yankee game since the disaster of 1994. I would try to catch as many games after working at the Guggenheim with my twin. I think we only missed about a half dozen games that season before the knuckleheads cancelled the rest of the season.

Had a chance to go to one of the last games at the Old Yankee Stadium (in the Corp Suite too), but decided I was too old to go to a game after work with work in the morning.

Depending on how things go with the Pandemic, may try to finally get the hubby to Yankee stadium. He deserves to see a real team from New York play.


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## yaxomoxay

lizkat said:


> Trying to decide how to try to watch games this year.   There's a bundle now with Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu, so maybe I'll try that.    Last year for just the World Series i took a month of YTTV but i'm not going to shell out for that for the regular season, I wouldn't make enough use of it,



MLBTV. If you have TMobile, it’s free.


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## lizkat

yaxomoxay said:


> MLBTV. If you have TMobile, it’s free.



Is that a time-limited promo like for one season (year) or it keeps going until further notice?


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## yaxomoxay

lizkat said:


> Is that a time-limited promo like for one season (year) or it keeps going until further notice?



Each year T-Mobile has a window (usually one or two weeks) in which you can subscribe for free. It’s a fairly straightforward thing to do, but you’ll have to do it every year.


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## lizkat

yaxomoxay said:


> Each year T-Mobile has a window (usually one or two weeks) in which you can subscribe for free. It’s a fairly straightforward thing to do, but you’ll have to do it every year.




Thanks I will check it out.   I switched to T-mobile last fall but the process was so annoying at the AT&T end that by time it was over I was just happy to have ported my number over.


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## yaxomoxay

lizkat said:


> Thanks I will check it out.   I switched to T-mobile last fall but the process was so annoying at the AT&T end that by time it was over I was just happy to have ported my number over.



Sure. Also don’t forget to download the TMobile Tuesdays app. Every single Tuesday Tmobile gives away stuff for free, from a pizza at Domino’s, to umbrellas and caps, to MLB TV and more.


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## Cmaier

yaxomoxay said:


> Sure. Also don’t forget to download the TMobile Tuesdays app. Every single Tuesday Tmobile gives away stuff for free, from a pizza at Domino’s, to umbrellas and caps, to MLB TV and more.




Off topic, but Domino’s doesn’t sell pizzas. Not sure what they are, but they aren’t pizzas.


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## yaxomoxay

Cmaier said:


> Off topic, but Domino’s doesn’t sell pizzas. Not sure what they are, but they aren’t pizzas.



As the resident Italian on this forum, I will say what I say to other people. It’s pizza, but it has to be seen as a whole different dish - and a lower quality one - than actual Italian pizza.


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## SuperMatt

yaxomoxay said:


> Sure. Also don’t forget to download the TMobile Tuesdays app. Every single Tuesday Tmobile gives away stuff for free, from a pizza at Domino’s, to umbrellas and caps, to MLB TV and more.



Yes to all of this. I have had mlb TV through t-mobile for years, and it’s great - watch any game I want on Apple TV.

I also get Netflix for $2 or $3 a month from T-mobile … it used to be free but when Netflix raised the price, t-mobile added the price increase only to the bill


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## ronntaylor

yaxomoxay said:


> As the resident Italian on this forum, I will say what I say to other people. It’s pizza, but it has to be seen as a whole different dish - and a lower quality one - than actual Italian pizza.



As a New Yorker, that applies almost everywhere. Sorry Chicago, it's not "deep dish" pizza. It's a damn casserole!!


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## Cmaier

ronntaylor said:


> As a New Yorker, that applies almost everywhere. Sorry Chicago, it's not "deep dish" pizza. It's a damn casserole!!



As a new yorker, I actually sometimes enjoy a chicago tomato cake.


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## lizkat

ronntaylor said:


> As a New Yorker, that applies almost everywhere. Sorry Chicago, it's not "deep dish" pizza. It's a damn casserole!!






Cmaier said:


> As a new yorker, I actually sometimes enjoy a chicago tomato cake.




Chicago, sí!  I was shipped out there a few times from NYC in the late 60s for some projects when I was working for actuaries on benefit package analyses.   I liked the city but I was shocked by a few things, definitely including the alleged pizza (or... cake).  Also I kept almost walking up the backs of people's heels during the lunch hour,  trying to run errands and still leave time to eat something.  New Yorkers just seem to cover the sidewalks of a city block a whole lot faster...

Never managed to see a ballgame on the times I was out there.   Did sit in once on a Margaret Hillis rehearsal of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra Chorus for a performance of the Brahms German Requiem, which happens to be one of my all time fave choral works.  A good friend of mine knew her and had a pass to the rehearsal, and he managed to get another for me.   I was in 7th heaven. 

It was nuts to fly out there just for that event, but I didn't even think about that, just got on the phone for a plane ticket as if I were calling for a taxi.

Trying to think if I would have done that had someone offered me a ticket to see the Cleveland Indians play at home sometime.   Probably would have gone for that too.   Ah the Insanity of the young.


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## yaxomoxay

@lizkat I just got this


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## SuperMatt

Opening day is Thursday.

REMINDER: If you have T-mobile, open the t-mobile tuesdays app on your phone TODAY to get the free subscription to watch all the games you want this season!


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## Herdfan

Ummmm, not sure what I think about this:









						MLB to allow anti-sign-stealing device this year
					

Pitchers and catchers will have the option of using new technological signaling devices as they decide what pitches to throw in the upcoming regular season.




					www.espn.com
				




Stealing signs is as old as the signs themselves.  That said, what some teams have done with technology to steal signs is out of bounds, but the runner on 2nd should be free to steal them.


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## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> Opening day is Thursday.
> 
> REMINDER: If you have T-mobile, open the t-mobile tuesdays app on your phone TODAY to get the free subscription to watch all the games you want this season!




I signed up instantly!   I thought somewhere they said though that the offer was good thru April 26th not 11th, but whatever...

Thanks to @yaxomoxay for telling me about the deal since I only switched to T-mo last fall and didn't realize there was such a deal until he mentioned it.   I'll never get anything done now all season, unless I limit myself to audio on the games of teams I like to follow.


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## Herdfan

Watched some of the Reds/Braves last night.  Something was off.  Not sure what, but it was off.  Perhaps it was just the TV presentation.  

And I didn't really like the pitch graphics they kept showing on ESPN.


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## SuperMatt

I had a great time at the Nats/Mets game even though the Nats lost. First Nats home run of the season was by Juan Soto (of course), there was a great throw to beat a runner to home plate, an incredible play by a shortstop to snag a certain base hit and toss it all the way across to 1st base just in time... etc. It was a bit cold though...


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## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> I had a great time at the Nats/Mets game even though the Nats lost.




Weird. I had a great time BECAUSE the Nats lost.

#LFGM


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> Watched some of the Reds/Braves last night.  Something was off.  Not sure what, but it was off.  Perhaps it was just the TV presentation.
> 
> And I didn't really like the pitch graphics they kept showing on ESPN.




I looked in on that for awhile, thought the audio was weird, the dynamics range or something,


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## Herdfan

lizkat said:


> I looked in on that for awhile, thought the audio was weird, the dynamics range or something,




Maybe.  I couldn't put my finger on what was off.

FS1 has Sox/Yanks tomorrow at 4, so will try and catch it to compare.


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## SuperMatt

I’m excited to see how Apple TV+ handles their first MLB broadcast tonight. Some info on their broadcast teams is below.









						Apple introduces broadcasters and production details for “Friday Night Baseball”
					

Fans can access “Friday Night Baseball” games and new content, including “Countdown to First Pitch” and more, beginning today in the Apple TV app.



					www.apple.com


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## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> I’m excited to see how Apple TV+ handles their first MLB broadcast tonight. Some info on their broadcast teams is below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple introduces broadcasters and production details for “Friday Night Baseball”
> 
> 
> Fans can access “Friday Night Baseball” games and new content, including “Countdown to First Pitch” and more, beginning today in the Apple TV app.
> 
> 
> 
> www.apple.com




We know you like the Bills and Sabers, but since Buffalo doesn't have an MLB team, who do you follow?

I grew up rooting for the Reds since they were the closest team and I made it to a couple of games a year.  And following the Braves/Cubs since they were always on cable (TBS/WGN).  But I just like baseball the game and don't really have a favorite, except for whoever is playing the Yankees.


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## SuperMatt

Herdfan said:


> We know you like the Bills and Sabers, but since Buffalo doesn't have an MLB team, who do you follow?
> 
> I grew up rooting for the Reds since they were the closest team and I made it to a couple of games a year.  And following the Braves/Cubs since they were always on cable (TBS/WGN).  But I just like baseball the game and don't really have a favorite, except for whoever is playing the Yankees.



Washington Nationals


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## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> I’m excited to see how Apple TV+ handles their first MLB broadcast tonight. Some info on their broadcast teams is below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple introduces broadcasters and production details for “Friday Night Baseball”
> 
> 
> Fans can access “Friday Night Baseball” games and new content, including “Countdown to First Pitch” and more, beginning today in the Apple TV app.
> 
> 
> 
> www.apple.com




I am loathing it. Mets have the best broadcast team in baseball.   (Gary, Keith and Ron).

One of tonight’s Apple TV+ broadcasters‘ *own mom *knows this is a big mistake:


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## ronntaylor

Cmaier said:


> I am loathing it. Mets have the best broadcast team in baseball. (Gary, Keith and Ron).



Even though I'm a Yankee fan, I watch a few Mutts games. I actually like their broadcast team. After watching a half inning of tonight's Friday Night Game I think I'll watch with the sound off. They're trying too hard. Trying to be comedians and entertainers. The chemistry sounds and feels artificial. I guess it helps that the local broadcast teams have been together and are often former teammates and/or competitors that can add to the dynamics of the game.


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## Cmaier

ronntaylor said:


> Even though I'm a Yankee fan, I watch a few Mutts games. I actually like their broadcast team. After watching a half inning of tonight's Friday Night Game I think I'll watch with the sound off. They're trying too hard. Trying to be comedians and entertainers. The chemistry sounds and feels artificial. I guess it helps that the local broadcast teams have been together and are often former teammates and/or competitors that can add to the dynamics of the game.




From what I’m seeing online, most Mets fans are watching with the sound off and listening to the radio broadcast.


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## SuperMatt

Well, they cleared the benches after Lindor took a pitch in the face. I don’t think it was intentional, as it was only the 2nd pitch of a reliever, so probably just a wild pitch. However, the response by the Nats pitcher was angry and aggressive afterwards, so I don’t have a problem with the umpires kicking him out of the game on the spot. I hope Lindor is ok. He was squared up to bunt so the ball went right into his face.

The response from the Mets was expected after they got hit by Nats pitches 3 times last night.

Probably not what Apple was looking for in their first broadcast…


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## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> Well, they cleared the benches after Lindor took a pitch in the face. I don’t think it was intentional, as it was only the 2nd pitch of a reliever, so probably just a wild pitch. However, the response by the Nats pitcher was angry and aggressive afterwards, so I don’t have a problem with the umpires kicking him out of the game on the spot. I hope Lindor is ok. He was squared up to bunt so the ball went right into his face.
> 
> The response from the Mets was expected after they got hit by Nats pitches 3 times last night.
> 
> Probably not what Apple was looking for in their first broadcast…




just had to listen to the announcers for the last 15 minutes. Thank god I can listen to the radio call again. These announcers are awful. It’s like bad top 40 radio DJs.


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## ronntaylor

Cmaier said:


> just had to listen to the announcers for the last 15 minutes. Thank god I can listen to the radio call again. These announcers are awful. It’s like bad top 40 radio DJs.



I tried again as I was brushing my teeth with the game on the iPad. I turned off the sound again. Should've done like others and put on the radio, but I haven't tried that in quite some time.


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## Herdfan

ronntaylor said:


> I tried again as I was brushing my teeth with the game on the iPad. I turned off the sound again. Should've done like others and put on the radio, but I haven't tried that in quite some time.






Cmaier said:


> just had to listen to the announcers for the last 15 minutes. Thank god I can listen to the radio call again. These announcers are awful. It’s like bad top 40 radio DJs.




When I was a kid people would watch Monday Night Football, but turn the sound down and listen to the radio broadcast.  People either loved or hated Howard Cosell, there was no middle ground.  Sounds like history is repeating itself.


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## ronntaylor

Herdfan said:


> When I was a kid people would watch Monday Night Football, but turn the sound down and listen to the radio broadcast.  People either loved or hated Howard Cosell, there was no middle ground.  Sounds like history is repeating itself.



Cosell was a blowhard and extremely annoying. His head got too big and he made it all about himself. Kinda like some of the announcers today during national broadcasts.


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## Cmaier

ronntaylor said:


> Cosell was a blowhard and extremely annoying. His head got too big and he made it all about himself. Kinda like some of the announcers today during national broadcasts.




ARod comes to mind as an example of that. 

BTW, lots of great announcers were available for Apple to hire. Folks without current jobs, even.  Gary Thorne, Tim McCarver, etc.  And where’s the law that you can’t have folks call games for more than one network? Instead Apple has to hire people who never called a game before?


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## ronntaylor

Cmaier said:


> ARod comes to mind as an example of that.
> 
> BTW, lots of great announcers were available for Apple to hire. Folks without current jobs, even.  Gary Thorne, Tim McCarver, etc.  And where’s the law that you can’t have folks call games for more than one network? Instead Apple has to hire people who never called a game before?



He immediately came to mind. And now includes Beltran.


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## Cmaier

ronntaylor said:


> He immediately came to mind. And now includes Beltran.




I’ve never heard Beltran, though of course I know him as a player (and, like most Mets fan, dislike him as a player).  His recent interview about how he “earned” the Mets managing job and where he tried to justify the sign stealing tells me a lot.  

Here’s an idea, Apple - hire some of the many talented radio play-by-play and color commentators who have lots of experience and talent, but just haven’t been able to make the jump to TV.  

Honestly, even Buck and Arod would be better than what I heard yesterday, and they’re terrible.


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