# Apple’s Sept. 7 Event WikiPost



## Cmaier

On Wednesday morning Apple is rumored to be announcing the new iPhone 14 and 14 Pro, various new Apple Watches including a “Pro” version, and AirPods Pro 2.  Tune in, and see y’all here for the play-by-play on Wednesday.


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## Herdfan

Cmaier said:


> On Wednesday morning Apple is rumored to be announcing the new *iPhone 14 and 14 Pro,* various new Apple Watches including a “Pro” version, and AirPods Pro 2.  Tune in, and see y’all here for the play-by-play on Wednesday.




Can't wait.  

Wife wants a Mini, so hopefully they either update it or discount it.


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## Alli

I want an Apple Watch that I don’t have to put on the charger after a simple one hour swim.


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## Joe

I don’t need anything. But I might be convinced


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## Yoused

Herdfan said:


> Wife wants a Mini, so hopefully they either update it or discount it.




Macs are not announced in September. You will have to wait until October 25th for the M2Pro Mini.


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## Runs For Fun

RIP bank account  Probably going to be getting all of those things.


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## ronntaylor

Joe said:


> I don’t need anything. But I might be convinced



In the same boat. Although I really can't. Promised to not make any more large purchases this year. So unless it's something unexpected & spectacular...


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## Cmaier

i’ll definitely be buying an iphone 14 (small version) to replace my wife’s iPhone X (which was mine, then my kid’s, now my wife’s, and the battery doesn’t make it more than a few hours).  

Maybe an iPhone 14 pro max for me, though it will have to have something pretty compelling to convince me to upgrade from my iPhone 13 Pro Max.  (Camera might do it for me).   Apple Watch pro maybe - i have an Apple Watch Series 4, and it works fine.  Always on and better battery life would be nice, but, honestly, i don’t use the watch for much other than alerts and viewing information.


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## Citysnaps

I also have a Series 4 Watch, but the battery still has decent capacity so I'll probably pass on upgrading this year.   Maybe next year.

iPhone...Right now I have a 12 Pro and the battery's still decent.  If I knew the upcoming 14 Pro/Max solved the lens flare issue, AND, if reviews are decent on the cameras, I might upgrade.

What I'm really hoping for is a reveal about Apple's upcoming AR product(s). I'm guessing they will be available within a year and will likely be glasses similar to what Stanford revealed at last month's SIGGRAPH conference. Knowing that Apple has been collaborating with Stanford's AR/VR lab for more than six years, I suspect Apple's glasses will be similar and pair with a user's iPhone for AR processing via UWB for the video/data links, allowing a much smaller glasses battery.  Perhaps some Apple AR apps will be revealed now, and available when their device is released.


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## Pumbaa

Series 3 Watch here, hoping to upgrade. Fingers crossed!

Can’t really see me upgrading my iPhone (13 Pro Max) no matter what (upgraded from 8 Plus last year), but I hope the fourteens are really nice anyway as a friend of mine is seriously considering a switch from Android.


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## Joe

I have a Series 4 Watch and it still works fine. But I’m curious about the Pro version. If it doesn’t wow me then I’ll just keep the 4 another year.


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## fischersd

I picked up an SE when my S3 had an unfortunate meeting with the patio poolside in Thailand.  Haven't seen anything exciting about S8, so I'll wait.  Likely get 2-3 years out of the SE before I need to upgrade again (and, I think, if the rumours are true about the S8 Pro not being compatible with the existing watch bands, that the writing is on the wall that Apple will do so next revision for all of the watch family).

Still waiting for a Mac Mini with an HDMI 2.1 port (so I can recreate my HTPC setup I had back in Onterrible).  Refuse to not be able to use the 120Hz refresh my 4k TV supports.  

And make it black, dammit!!!


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## Nycturne

Yoused said:


> Macs are not announced in September. You will have to wait until October 25th for the M2Pro Mini.




I’m pretty sure they mean the iPhone Mini. 

It’s been rumored that Apple might toss that model in the bin, so it’s not guaranteed to be updated.


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## Herdfan

Yoused said:


> Macs are not announced in September. You will have to wait until October 25th for the M2Pro Mini.




iPhone Mini.

Same general size as an SE, but without the button.

So either it will get updated, or there will be a fire sale on it.  It's $599 now, so hopefully it may come down to $399.


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## Cmaier

Nycturne said:


> I’m pretty sure they mean the iPhone Mini.
> 
> It’s been rumored that Apple might toss that model in the bin, so it’s not guaranteed to be updated.




Pretty sure there will be no mini.  The voices who want mini are loud.  But there are too few of them.

Looks like the Apple Watch pro will have an extra button on the left side, and the crown and right-side button will be recessed into a protruding bar.









						Claimed CAD render of Apple Watch Pro design lends weight to extra button theory
					

Leaked third-party cases suggested that the Apple Watch Pro design would include an additional button, on the opposite side to the existing Digital Crown and side button – and this is now backed by a claimed CAD render. The computer aided design (CAD) image also shows the flatter display we’re...




					9to5mac.com


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## fischersd

Cmaier said:


> Pretty sure there will be no mini.  The voices who want mini are loud.  But there are too few of them.
> 
> Looks like the Apple Watch pro will have an extra button on the left side, and the crown and right-side button will be recessed into a protruding bar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Claimed CAD render of Apple Watch Pro design lends weight to extra button theory
> 
> 
> Leaked third-party cases suggested that the Apple Watch Pro design would include an additional button, on the opposite side to the existing Digital Crown and side button – and this is now backed by a claimed CAD render. The computer aided design (CAD) image also shows the flatter display we’re...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9to5mac.com



Wow, that's fugly!  If Apple actually did that to the "pro" watch, I think that may bite them in the ass.

Yes, I'm one of those loud voices - love my 13 mini.
@Nycturne - Yoused was obviously talking about the Mac Mini - they're not putting an M2 chip into an iPhone.


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## Colstan

I know this may sound like heresy around these parts, but I'm not an Apple user, per se, but a Mac user. I don't use any Apple products other than their desktop computers, and if for some reason they stopped making them, then I wouldn't use any of their products. That's why I was unaware that, when Apple announced "Background Sounds" for macOS Ventura, it was a feature already included in iOS. Apple certainly makes great products all around, but I focus most of my efforts on desktop computing, so I'm the target market for the Mac. Assuming my bizarre saga to purchase a 2019 Mac Pro pans out, then I won't be getting a new Mac until the M6 or M7 is released, as difficult as that is for me to fathom. Still, I'll be watching, because I never know when Apple will successfully tempt me with something new and interesting.


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## Herdfan

Colstan said:


> I know this may sound like heresy around these parts, but I'm not an Apple user, per se, but a Mac user.




Love my Mac's for sure.  

But the wife and daughter are locked into iOS, so I am stuck.  If it were just me, I would be using an Android in a heartbeat.  In fact, my tablet is a Samsung.


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## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> Pretty sure there will be no mini.  The voices who want mini are loud.  But there are too few of them.
> 
> Looks like the Apple Watch pro will have an extra button on the left side, and the crown and right-side button will be recessed into a protruding bar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Claimed CAD render of Apple Watch Pro design lends weight to extra button theory
> 
> 
> Leaked third-party cases suggested that the Apple Watch Pro design would include an additional button, on the opposite side to the existing Digital Crown and side button – and this is now backed by a claimed CAD render. The computer aided design (CAD) image also shows the flatter display we’re...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9to5mac.com



Wow, I don't know if I like that at all. It looks so odd. The flat screen is so contrasting to the rounded case. And that sidebar looks like it was added on as an afterthought. Damn, I thought I would probably get it but now I might just go for the standard S8.


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## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> Wow, I don't know if I like that at all. It looks so odd. The flat screen is so contrasting to the rounded case. And that sidebar looks like it was added on as an afterthought. Damn, I thought I would probably get it but now I might just go for the standard S8.



A lot of the time the actual products look a lot better than the CAD drawings.  I’m keeping an open mind until we see the actual product.

i agree the profile looks really odd in the CAD drawings, though.


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## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> A lot of the time the actual products look a lot better than the CAD drawings.  I’m keeping an open mind until we see the actual product.
> 
> i agree the profile looks really odd in the CAD drawings, though.



Yeah I'll wait until we actually see the real device to decide.


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## Colstan

Herdfan said:


> Love my Mac's for sure.
> 
> But the wife and daughter are locked into iOS, so I am stuck.  If it were just me, I would be using an Android in a heartbeat.  In fact, my tablet is a Samsung.



I always cringe when I hear the term "ecosystem". I generally dislike being locked into any one vendor. For those who like it, that's fine, but it's not for me. If for whatever reason I ever wanted or needed to switch to PC, then it would be simple as building one myself. I just think Microsoft has terrible design and x86 is a woefully outdated architecture. I try to keep my tech as modular as possible, so that I don't get locked into any particular company, making it difficult to extract myself.

That being said, I adore Macs, and can't see myself ever giving up on the platform, even if it means losing out on things like expandability and a handful of PC games.

"The only problem with Microsoft is that they just have no taste."
-Steve Jobs


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## Nycturne

fischersd said:


> @Nycturne - Yoused was obviously talking about the Mac Mini - they're not putting an M2 chip into an iPhone.




Herdfan was talking about the iPhone Mini, Yoused responded about the Mac Mini. Hence my reply.

EDIT: There’s definitely some irony here replying “you are missing the context” to someone pointing out the missed context.


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## Yoused

Nycturne said:


> There’s definitely some irony here replying “you are missing the context” to someone pointing out the missed context.



Hey, there is lots of context lying around these parts for us to take stuff out of.


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## Yoused

One site, FWIW, is saying that the A16 will be on N4 (they claim Apple placed a big N4 order with TSMC). This could make sense, if they are planning to put upper-end Mac M2s on N3, which is somewhat limited availability, as Macs are much lower volume than iThings.


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## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> One site, FWIW, is saying that the A16 will be on N4 (they claim Apple placed a big N4 order with TSMC). This could make sense, if they are planning to put upper-end Mac M2s on N3, which is somewhat limited availability, as Macs are much lower volume than iThings.



I thought it was a given that A16 would not be on N3.


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## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> I thought it was a given that A16 would not be on N3.



I was seeing some as were saying A16 would be N5 or N5P, because N4 (AIUI) just did not have that much to offer.


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## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> I was seeing some as were saying A16 would be N5 or N5P, because N4 (AIUI) just did not have that much to offer.



Oh.  I suppose it’s always possible.  But I assume A16 will have a lot of new stuff on it to handle the fancier cameras, and they’ll want to minimize power consumption for the always-on-display functions, and it’ll likely be N4.  

If it’s N5, would be hard to differentiate vs. the A15 in the iPhone 14 non-pro models, possibly.


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## Runs For Fun

Interesting








						Report: New Apple Watch that is 'cheaper than the Apple Watch SE' coming on Wednesday
					

While the Apple Watch Pro has been getting most of the attention, a recent report from the New York Times says that there’s also a new Apple Watch model on the way that is “cheaper than the Apple Watch SE.” The report describes this as part of Apple’s effort to “compete more aggressively for...




					9to5mac.com


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## DT

Sounds like there's a bunch of us iPhone 13 Pro Max owners who will likely sit out this product cycle.

Mine is [still] terrific, battery, camera, display, I don't think there will be some compelling brand new features.  I'm sure the camera, like always, will get some incremental improvements, if I was 2 or more revisions behind maybe/probably.  I came from an iPhone X, so the 13PM was a pretty notable update.

I think maybe it's time for the wife and daughter to get an upgrade. 

And I totally dig on that design for the Watch Pro, that's probably a "day one" order, definitely the next gen for the wife (not sure if she's into a beefier design).


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## Joe

DT said:


> Sounds like there's a bunch of us iPhone 13 Pro Max owners who will likely sit out this product cycle.
> 
> Mine is [still] terrific, battery, camera, display, I don't think there will be some compelling brand new features.  I'm sure the camera, like always, will get some incremental improvements, if I was 2 or more revisions behind maybe/probably.  I came from an iPhone X, so the 13PM was a pretty notable update.
> 
> I think maybe it's time for the wife and daughter to get an upgrade.
> 
> And I totally dig on that design for the Watch Pro, that's probably a "day one" order, definitely the next gen for the wife (not sure if she's into a beefier design).




Yeah, I'm keeping my 13 Pro Max. It is perfectly fine for my needs.  I'm not gonna pay for a smaller notch or Always On Display.


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## Cmaier

DT said:


> Sounds like there's a bunch of us iPhone 13 Pro Max owners who will likely sit out this product cycle.
> 
> Mine is [still] terrific, battery, camera, display, I don't think there will be some compelling brand new features.  I'm sure the camera, like always, will get some incremental improvements, if I was 2 or more revisions behind maybe/probably.  I came from an iPhone X, so the 13PM was a pretty notable update.
> 
> I think maybe it's time for the wife and daughter to get an upgrade.
> 
> And I totally dig on that design for the Watch Pro, that's probably a "day one" order, definitely the next gen for the wife (not sure if she's into a beefier design).




I think the camera improvements will be more than incremental this time - the lenses are huge, the sensor size has increased, and the megapixel count has gone up (which would not impress me except that the sensor is clearly bigger too)

Some sort of satellite communications for SOS is rumored - can’t say as I’ve been in a position to need that, though.

New notch may or may not make a practical difference, depending on what the software does with it.  

Always on display is not something that would be useful to me - I don’t glance at my phone when it’s off since I wear an Apple Watch and glance at that instead.


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## DT

Yeah, the AOD seems to be something that's a huge deal for some, or a "don't care at all", and like you, I fall into that latter group   I have a Watch S5, and the AOD hasn't improved my experience (I use it exactly the same way as I did with a non-AOD).

Well, I guess it depends on how large of an increment   Like if the camera was better as in the improvements from my X to my 13PM?  I might consider an upgrade.   The thing for me is if it makes huge meaningful impact in how I experience the photos I shoot.  Like the X to 13, there was a major increase in low light performance, I'm talking pics I take where I couldn't make out anything vs. pics where I'm able to see very good detail.  The other use cases while also better, were less of a thing for me.


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## lizkat

Joe said:


> Yeah, I'm keeping my 13 Pro Max. It is perfectly fine for my needs.  I'm not gonna pay for a smaller notch or Always On Display.




I might postpone an iPad upgrade yet again,  and get an iPhone 13 refurb to replace my XR, which I've discovered works fine for reading books with vertical scrolling turned on.   I do want a phone that is a little less long in the tooth.  A 13 bought off the refurb shelf fairly soon would fit the bill.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

Herdfan said:


> Can't wait.
> 
> Wife wants a Mini, so hopefully they either update it or discount it.





Is your wife one of those people who wants the smallest phone and then sets the font to the largest size?  I have yet to find a logical explanation for this phenomenon.


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## lizkat

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Is your wife one of those people who wants the smallest phone and then sets the font to the largest size?  I have yet to find a logical explanation for this phenomenon.




THE SIZE OF OUR JEANS OR SHIRT POCKETS... 

We want them to fit in small pockets but some of us have aging eyes and need to jack up the fonts or use the zoom feature.  The tradeoff for some of us still does favor a small physical phone size when we are on the go..  Love my old SE even if I do use the XR when I'm stationary in kitchen or living room.   When I'm running around the house or I'm outside and want the phone in pocket, i like the original SE's dimensions and weight.  Heck I was always a fan of that tiny Juke cellphone back in the days of phone/music-player.


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## Yoused

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Is your wife one of those people who wants the smallest phone and then sets the font to the largest size?  I have yet to find a logical explanation for this phenomenon.



Go find a resizable web page. Expand the browser window to the full width of your computer monitor. Read the text on the page, as the lines stretch almost two feet across and contain sixty or more words. Now squeeze the page to a fifth of your screen and see how it is to read. Narrow columns of text are much easier to read, and bigger font sizes help with that.


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## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> Go find a resizable web page. Expand the browser window to the full width of your computer monitor. Read the text on the page, as the lines stretch almost two feet across and contain sixty or more words. Now squeeze the page to a fifth of your screen and see how it is to read. Narrow columns of text are much easier to read, and bigger font sizes help with that.



Yep. That’s why newspapers have columns.  I love columns.


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## Deleted member 215

I have the 13 Pro. I decided against the Pro Max even though I've had the larger phone since 2018 because I was disappointed in the fact that the 13 Pro Max was bigger and heavier than the 12 Pro Max, which was bigger and heavier than the 11 Pro Max. Now that I'm hearing that the 14 Pro Max is going to be, you guessed it, bigger and heavier than the 13 Pro Max, and that a new "Plus" model is coming out that doesn't have all the Pro features but has the larger screen size that I like without as much heft and thickness, I'm thinking the 14 Plus might tempt me. I haven't had the "cheap" model (what I call the "non-Pro" models) since the 8 Plus, but I could see getting the 14 Plus absolutely. I think it will be a popular model for those of us who want a larger screen size but would like to pay less (and in my case, don't want the extra bulk of the Pro Max).


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## Roller

I’ve been on a 3-year upgrade cycle since the 6 Plus. I plan to stick with that,  so will probably wait until the 15. My 12 Pro is still great, but battery health is  only 88%. I don’t notice it in day-to-day use, though.


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## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> Yep. That’s why newspapers have columns.  I love columns.




I love Columns too.


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## fischersd

We upgraded to 13's last year - me, the mini, the wife the PM.  Yes, I'm envious as all hell of her camera....don't get me started. 
Also replaced my watch in the summer as my S3 took a flying leap poolside to end it all. 
My 2018 15" MBP is working just fine, so no need to pursue an Mx just yet.
I'm not holding my breath for a worthy Mac Mini - just keep getting disappointed.

Heh - so, no, not expecting anything that will be all that exciting today.


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## Herdfan

DT said:


> Sounds like there's a bunch of us iPhone 13 Pro Max owners who will likely sit out this product cycle.




I have a 12 Pro, the offspring has a 13 Pro.  Just playing with hers when she got it, it looked like a nice upgrade from the 12P.  So if I had a 13P, I can't see what else the 14 could offer.  

Now coming from a 12, I will be upgrading.

Seems like the upgrades are much more incremental now than they used to be.  I remember getting up a 2:55a so I could order a new 3, 4 and 5.  Now you can just go to the store on launch day and get what you want.


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## Herdfan

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Is your wife one of those people who wants the smallest phone and then sets the font to the largest size?  I have yet to find a logical explanation for this phenomenon.




LOL  No.  Her eyes are still pretty good.  For her age anyway. 

She just doesn't like walking around with a Phablet.  For her a phone is just a phone.  She uses her iPad for most things.


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## Citysnaps

Yoused said:


> Go find a resizable web page. Expand the browser window to the full width of your computer monitor. Read the text on the page, as the lines stretch almost two feet across and contain sixty or more words. Now squeeze the page to a fifth of your screen and see how it is to read. Narrow columns of text are much easier to read, and bigger font sizes help with that.




One of the major reasons narrow columns are easier to read is that a reader's brain subconsciously processes text several lines ahead of what's currently been read/interpreted, providing contextual cues as to what's being communicated, thus making reading easier.


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## DT

Herdfan said:


> I have a 12 Pro, the offspring has a 13 Pro.  Just playing with hers when she got it, it looked like a nice upgrade from the 12P.  So if I had a 13P, I can't see what else the 14 could offer.
> 
> Now coming from a 12, I will be upgrading.
> 
> Seems like the upgrades are much more incremental now than they used to be.  I remember getting up a 2:55a so I could order a new 3, 4 and 5.  Now you can just go to the store on launch day and get what you want.




Yeah, I usually do every other year for iPhones, so even with my comment about "possibly", it's honestly, highly unlikely I'd do an upgrade on my year old phone.

Usually what we do is every other year, but with a year offset between the wife and I, so like she might get a new 14, so we'd have one "in the family" so to speak, then next year I'd get the newer phone.  Since the updates tend to be focused on camera tech, and we're always together for picture related events/experiences, that means we usually have most recent camera tech on hand.

She's actually on an 11 Pro, so a couple of versions behind, probably a good year for her to get an update.  Daughter is on an 11.


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## Cmaier

And we’re off…


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## Cmaier

Apple Watch up first.  Re-enacting all the lives saved is a bit much.


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## Joelist

iOvulation???


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## Joelist

Apple assisting in conception....this is getting a bit personal...


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## Cmaier

Apple Watch Series 8: 

- temperature sensor.  Marketing it as for women‘s cycle tracking/ovulation.  Seems like it won’t tell you your body temperature, but will tell you how far your temperature is from “baseline.”   Seems weird to not address illness detection.


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## Joelist

And crash detection - this is potentially very useful.


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## Cmaier

Apple Watch Series 8:

- car crash detection.  They added a high-G accelerometer just for that?   Runs only when driving. Only processes data around time of crash.


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## Cmaier

Apple Watch Series 8:

- same battery life (18 hour).
- new: low power mode (up to 36 hours of battery life).  Disables always on display and auto-workout detection.  Works on Series 4 and later.
- international roaming now on cellular models (Series 5 and later)

Four aluminum colors, 3 stainless steel colors.

Can use Nike watch faces with ANY watch, now, with watchOS 9


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## Cmaier

Overall, Series 8 seems kind of “eh,” especially if you aren’t an ovulating woman.


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## Joelist

Apple Watch this time seems to be reaching a little to differentiate v8 from v7.


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## Alli

Low power mode. Nice. But evidently I won’t need a new watch for that.


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## Alli

Cmaier said:


> Overall, Series 8 seems kind of “eh,” especially if you aren’t an ovulating woman.



But that’s sure exciting Republicans in Texas.


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## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> Apple Watch Series 8:
> 
> - temperature sensor.  Marketing it as for women‘s cycle tracking/ovulation.  Seems like it won’t tell you your body temperature, but will tell you how far your temperature is from “baseline.”   Seems weird to not address illness detection.



Maybe that would be considered more medical and require approval it isn’t likely to get due to lack of precision or something?


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## Cmaier

Apple Watch SE: the back is a “nylon composite.”  Hmm..


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## Joelist

Is this a 60 or 90 minute presentation? This is a LOT of time for Watch.


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## Pumbaa

Joelist said:


> Is this a 60 or 90 minute presentation? This is a LOT of time for Watch.



A lot of time for not a lot new up until now.


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## Eric

It's so marketing heavy that it's almost unbearable to watch, really just want to know about new features and release dates.


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## Cmaier

Not a lot of surprises so far today.

Apple Watch Ultra.  

It is…odd looking


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## Cmaier

“Action button” is orange.  That’s a surprise.


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## Alli

Apple Watch Ultra. Now there’s some battery life!


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## Deleted member 215

The MR comments are just gold right now (some of them are mine).


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## Alli

I like 2/3 of the new bands that will go with the Ultra.


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## Cmaier

Not being an extreme athlete or an ovulating woman who gets into a lot of car crashes, I’m not feeling that my wallet needs to be opened yet.


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## Cmaier

Alli said:


> I like 2/3 of the new bands that will go with the Ultra.




The last one looked interesting to me (if it comes in something other than yellow)


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## Alli

Cmaier said:


> The last one looked interesting to me (if it comes in something other than yellow)



And that’s the one that least interested me cause it seems like the original sport loop.


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## Joelist

I was kinda hoping it would be depth rated for the bottom of the Challenger Deep...


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## Cmaier

Alli said:


> And that’s the one that least interested me cause it seems like the original sport loop.




The rubber one looked painful


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## Eric

So many new features for ocean divers, glad they spent 15 minutes on it.


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## rdrr

How long do you think that annoying alarm can go before the battery wears out?


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## Alli

Cmaier said:


> The rubber one looked painful



You’re wearing it wrong.


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## Alli

rdrr said:


> How long do you think that annoying alarm can go before the battery wears out?



Or before your eardrums rupture!


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## Cmaier

Note: no mention of satellite communications on any of the watches (which was one of the rumors).


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## Alli

Cmaier said:


> Note: no mention of satellite communications on any of the watches (which was one of the rumors).



Since it appears carriers will be offering that for less it may be a nonissue.


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## Cmaier

Now 45 minutes on airpods?


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## Eric

A watch that can tell you if you're ovulating at 30 meters underwater, where do I get one!


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## Pumbaa

I like the Ultra, but it might be inconvenient for everyday use.

My Series 3 needs replacement. Bummer. Not sure the 8 is worth it over the SE. Hmm hmm hmm. Maybe can get a good deal on a 7.


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## Joelist

I was kinda hoping for neuro implant airpods pro....


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## Alli

They’re AirPods. They play music. NEXT!


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## Pumbaa

Alli said:


> They’re AirPods. They play music. NEXT!



Yes, you can tell Siri to play the next song.
No, the ad won’t skip to the iPhones.


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## Eric

Joelist said:


> I was kinda hoping for neuro implant airpods pro....



With a MagSafe charger in your pillow, I would totally buy that!


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## Cmaier

Does the noise cancellation cancel her monotonous voice?


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## Pumbaa

Eric said:


> With a MagSafe charger in your pillow, I would totally buy that!



I would love to wake up fully recharged for a change!


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## Joelist

This kid has a LOT to learn about public speaking...


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## rdrr

Ugh we are back to the flexible in-ear pieces.   They never fit me.


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## Pumbaa

Gaaah. Zoned out a bit. Without really thinking I tried to skip forward in the stream


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## Deleted member 215

Joelist said:


> This kid has a LOT to learn about public speaking...




I commented on MR that she sounds like me being called to read aloud in class when I was a kid


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## Cmaier

Memoji engraving would be something my daughter would like, I think


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## Joelist

Granted AirPods are not super exciting but her lackluster presentation skills and that weird yellow "jumpsuit" that makes her look like she works in a power plant make it hard to really get into this.


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## ronntaylor

Apple Watch should have been as short as the AirPod segment.


----------



## Joelist

At least we're talking iPhone now. TBH the trend towards giant-ism is starting to get absurd. The iPhone 13 Max is basically 7 inches?


----------



## Cmaier

A15 on base iPhone 14 rumors were correct.


----------



## Joelist

Got a feeling there won't be a Pro rollout today.


----------



## Pumbaa

I’ve been to too many conferences and seen too many presentations by researchers for the presentation to really bother me. Not sure if the criticism is valid or not. I don’t think even Steve Jobs would had been able to make me care about those AirPods.


----------



## Alli

They never mentioned it (yet?), so I guess iPhone 14 is sticking with lightning charging?


----------



## Joe

ronntaylor said:


> Apple Watch should have been as short as the AirPod segment.




Yeah, that was a little too much on the watch. They're running out of ideas lol


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> Granted AirPods are not super exciting but her lackluster presentation skills and that weird yellow "jumpsuit" that makes her look like she works in a power plant make it hard to really get into this.




I think she just escaped from the Satellite of Love.


----------



## Cmaier

Alli said:


> They never mentioned it (yet?), so I guess iPhone 14 is sticking with lightning charging?



For sure. USB-C next year, at the earliest.


----------



## Alli

And my internet has died.


----------



## Alli

Wasn’t the internet after all. It was the Apple app.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Haha I think I've had three posts deleted from the MR thread so far.


----------



## ronntaylor

TBL said:


> Haha I think I've had three posts deleted from the MR thread so far.



Don't miss that _there_!


----------



## rdrr

Rescue services are going to be picking up a lot more lost instagram folks looking for those unique shots.


----------



## Eric

TBL said:


> Haha I think I've had three posts deleted from the MR thread so far.



Seriously? Why?


----------



## Deleted member 215

Eric said:


> Seriously? Why?




Some people were joking about the Watch needing "men's features", like a "JO tracker" and I responded to a couple of those posts in a similar humorous fashion. One of mine got removed for being "vulgar"


----------



## Eric

TBL said:


> Some people were joking about the Watch needing "men's features", like a "JO tracker" and I responded to a couple of those posts in a similar humorous fashion. One of mine got removed for being "vulgar"



Oh FFS! SMH.


----------



## Alli

Emergency SOS is the only satellite feature. But free for 2 years is nice.


----------



## ronntaylor

Alli said:


> Emergency SOS is the only satellite feature. But free for 2 years is nice.



Right! I didn't understand some rumors of this automatically being included system-wide.


----------



## Pumbaa

Alli said:


> Emergency SOS is the only satellite feature. But free for 2 years is nice.



And location sharing.


----------



## rdrr

Alli said:


> Emergency SOS is the only satellite feature. But free for 2 years is nice.



Don't forget the huge search and rescue billing, once they figured out that you got yourself into that mess trying to get The Instagram.


----------



## Deleted member 215

A whole month until the 14 Plus becomes available? Supply chain problems...


----------



## Alli

Evidently I’m saving a fortune this year. Looking forward to the os updates.


----------



## ronntaylor

Okay, I promised just an hour. So thanks to the extended time on damn AW, I'm checking out till later today. Doesn't look like anything for me unless something great is announced later or I finally hit for millions via the lottery.


----------



## Pumbaa

TBL said:


> A whole month until the 14 Plus becomes available? Supply chain problems...



They started growing them at the same time. The 14 can be delivered sooner because it can be harvested sooner. The Plus needs to grow longer to get big enough.


----------



## Pumbaa

rdrr said:


> Don't forget the huge search and rescue billing, once they figured out that you got yourself into that mess trying to get The Instagram.



Just go viral and profit from the experience!


----------



## Cmaier

This new notifications thing looks nice. “Dynamic Island” Cute. Very clever way to play with the pill cutout.


----------



## Pumbaa

I like the “Dynamic Island”. But I’m not upgrading for that…


----------



## Eric

Alli said:


> Evidently I’m saving a fortune this year. Looking forward to the os updates.



Same here, just waiting for the iOS updates now.


----------



## Cmaier

Shite. I think I need to buy one. I want to write apps that take advantage of the island.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Something tells me the "dynamic island" is going to be the new normal for the next several generations of iPhones...


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> This new notifications thing looks nice. “Dynamic Island” Cute. Very clever way to play with the pill cutout.



I was thinking the same thing, creative on their part.


----------



## Cmaier

48MP camera. 65% bigger sensor. That will make a big difference. Pixel grouping to create “big” pixels for wide angle. That will let in a lot of light.


----------



## Alli

Cmaier said:


> 48MP camera. 65% bigger sensor. That will make a big difference. Pixel grouping to create “big” pixels for wide angle. That will let in a lot of light.



I normally upgrade for the camera. But I’m not upgrading until we get USB-C.


----------



## Eric

Nice to see they're addressing low light, so far, even on the 13 pro max it's pretty bad with all the noise and detail loss. A higher MP count will help but being only on the wide camera will have limitations. I've tested extensively with it and rarely get real keepers on serious shoots.

They're trying to market it as pro photography equipment but it's still a long way from a real Mirrorless or DSLR CMOS sensor, considering it's size it will always be limited this way. Great for point and shoot photographers though.


----------



## Citysnaps

Someone on MR asked: _"Guys, serious question: where are white, normal looking men in Apple's photos during presentations?"_


----------



## Eric

Citysnaps said:


> Someone on MR asked: _"Guys, serious question: where are white, normal looking men in Apple's photos during presentations?"_



Now THAT's the MR that we know and love.


----------



## Citysnaps

The camera improvements alone are making the phone a buy for me.


----------



## rdrr

Wow, those camera's look like they stick out a lot more.


----------



## Pumbaa

rdrr said:


> Wow, those camera's look like they stick out a lot more.



Well, all those photo tips books tell you to get closer to your subject, perfect!


----------



## Alli

Why didn’t they announce when the new os would be available?


----------



## Joe

Citysnaps said:


> Someone on MR asked: _"Guys, serious question: where are white, normal looking men in Apple's photos during presentations?"_




That's normal for MR.


----------



## Joelist

I was rooting for a built in death ray feature - point the phone, click and all the battery energy leaps out in a lightning like bolt to your target!


----------



## Deleted member 215

Citysnaps said:


> Someone on MR asked: _"Guys, serious question: where are white, normal looking men in Apple's photos during presentations?"_




There was a Slavic guy? Or does that not count, by Hitlerian standards?


----------



## Eric

So that's that then? They should start having these every few years, I get why they do these incremental updates annually but every 12 months we hear how the new one is the greatest thing since sliced bread compared that shitty modely they just sold you a few months ago. I was really anticipating it and was pretty much a letdown, I fall for it every year!


----------



## Eric

Joe said:


> That's normal for MR.



Nobody stands up for the oppressed straight white male with society's bootheel in their neck like the entitle MR user.


----------



## rdrr

Eric said:


> So that's that then? They should start having these every few years, I get why they do these incremental updates annually but every 12 months we hear how the new one is the greatest thing since sliced bread compared that shitty modely they just sold you a few months ago. I was really anticipating it and was pretty much a letdown, I fall for it every year!



Well I hope that every year they can claim "this is the best iPhone we have ever created."   Otherwise why waste my hour+ of my attention?


----------



## Citysnaps

Eric said:


> Now THAT's the MR that we know and love.




Kind of the tip of the iceberg. 

Was also a race to the bottom with inane juvenile comments when menstrual tracking for women was featured on the Watch. And criticizing Apple presenters about their weight and appearance.


----------



## Colstan

I didn't watch, because there were no Mac announcements. I hope everyone enjoyed it, though. I saw that the A16 is on 4nm, which is interesting, considering that M2 was on 5NP. I wonder if this lends credence to M2 Pro/Max/Ultra/Extreme/Bodacious being 3nm? I know TSMC couldn't handle A-series volume on the rumored early 3nm process, but perhaps a lower volume product like high-end Macs are something TSMC could manage?


----------



## Nycturne

Citysnaps said:


> Someone on MR asked: _"Guys, serious question: where are white, normal looking men in Apple's photos during presentations?"_




I stayed away from the politics section on MR, but there’s still a good reason why I’ve backed away after registering in 2003.

Out of the announcements, the Apple Watch Ultra is the most interesting for me (hiking/etc, Garmin Oregon user for the longest time). I just worry about the fit, as the current Apple Watches are not fun to wear for long periods of time for me.

I was having a discussion with family back in June about rumors related to satellite capabilities for upcoming iPhones. Commentators like Bob Cringely seemed to think that Apple is aiming for some sort of Starlink-esque bypass of cellular providers. I was skeptical because of the sheer physics and limitations of current antenna tech, but I commented that using it for SOS would be very useful. Oh hey, look at what Apple is using it for.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Eric said:


> Nice to see they're addressing low light, so far, even on the 13 pro max it's pretty bad with all the noise and detail loss. A higher MP count will help but being only on the wide camera will have limitations. I've tested extensively with it and rarely get real keepers on serious shoots.
> 
> They're trying to market it as pro photography equipment but it's still a long way from a real Mirrorless or DSLR CMOS sensor, considering it's size it will always be limited this way. Great for point and shoot photographers though.




There's probably some settings I could fuss around with, but there are times when I want low lighting with clarity but it also makes the overall picture way too bright, think dusk or dawn photos.


----------



## Herdfan

Alli said:


> I normally upgrade for the camera. But I’m not upgrading until we get USB-C.




I would like USB-C simply for travel.  At home I use wireless so it is almost never plugged in.

We have a mesh bag we travel with that has all our cables. 2 each of Lightning, USB-C, Micro USB,  and 1 each of USB-HDMI and Lightning-HDMI. Plus 2 wall ports and a dual car port.


----------



## Andropov

The Dynamic Island is one of the smartest design choices I have seen announced in a keynote. They really managed to turn a hardware limitation into a feature. Cool.


----------



## Nycturne

Andropov said:


> The Dynamic Island is one of the smartest design choices I have seen announced in a keynote. They really managed to turn a hardware limitation into a feature. Cool.




Have to agree that they did a good job there. It’s taking over certain UI cues that have been there for years, but making it more clear. Then add more cues into it now that you have this flexible framework for doing so. Neat. 

Hmm, well, with the return period, I decided to give the Ultra a try. Turns out the Trail Loop isn’t going to be available until October. The other two are available on 9/23 though. Odd, since the Trail Loop is probably the simplest of the three.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> The Dynamic Island is one of the smartest design choices I have seen announced in a keynote. They really managed to turn a hardware limitation into a feature. Cool.



Yeah, I have to admit, I think that the dynamic island is what is going to push me to buy this thing.


----------



## Renzatic

Citysnaps said:


> Someone on MR asked: _"Guys, serious question: where are white, normal looking men in Apple's photos during presentations?"_




IF THIS COMMERCIAL DOESN'T HAVE LEROY DRIVING UP IN HIS BIG ASS TRUCK BLASTING SOME ALAN JACKSON ON HIS NEW IPHONE, I SWEAR AFORE GOD IMMA KILL ALL YALL!


----------



## Pumbaa

Andropov said:


> The Dynamic Island is one of the smartest design choices I have seen announced in a keynote. They really managed to turn a hardware limitation into a feature. Cool.



Agreed. Looked really smooth and something they should try to backport some version of (fat chance).

Wonder how they deal with landscape mode…


----------



## Andropov

I think I’m gonna pass on the iPhone this time. But I’m super curious whether the temperature sensor on the new Apple Watch works for tracking fever. Almost tempted to buy it.

I’m glad they added the Crash Detection feature too, I wonder if it could end up saving more lives than the atrial fibrillation detection. Anyhow it’s cool watching the Apple Watch slowly turning into a small lab-on-the-wrist. Hope they get non-invasive glucose monitoring next


----------



## Renzatic

Renzatic said:


> IF THIS COMMERCIAL DOESN'T HAVE LEROY DRIVING UP IN HIS BIG ASS TRUCK BLASTING SOME ALAN JACKSON ON HIS NEW IPHONE, I SWEAR AFORE GOD IMMA KILL ALL YALL!




This is why I keep getting banned from Facebook, by the way.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Hmm. No WiFi 6E and no Bluetooth 5.2 I wonder what's holding up the adoption of those standards.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> I think I’m gonna pass on the iPhone this time. But I’m super curious whether the temperature sensor on the new Apple Watch works for tracking fever. Almost tempted to buy it.
> 
> I’m glad they added the Crash Detection feature too, I wonder if it could end up saving more lives than the atrial fibrillation detection. Anyhow it’s cool watching the Apple Watch slowly turning into a small lab-on-the-wrist. Hope they get non-invasive glucose monitoring next




I had heard rumors that the temperature sensor is very good at measuring delta temps but not so good at correlating to “body temp” you’d get from under your tongue.  And given that Apple didn’t talk about fever detection, catching onsets of covid, etc., I’m guessing it just isn’t set up to do that.


----------



## Andropov

Cmaier said:


> I had heard rumors that the temperature sensor is very good at measuring delta temps but not so good at correlating to “body temp” you’d get from under your tongue.  And given that Apple didn’t talk about fever detection, catching onsets of covid, etc., I’m guessing it just isn’t set up to do that.



I was surprised when they said the word 'fever' (once) in the keynote, as all rumors pointed to that feature being exclusively for cycle tracking. But AFAIK they only mentioned it once, and it's nowhere to be found in the marketing material. It's likely that the approach is fundamentally limited, since the watch is worn on the wrist, so even if it measures the temperature accurately at that point, it would be different from the core body temp by a huge (variable) amount. 

I would be interested in seeing the measurements during a fever spike nonetheless. I bet you *can* see the fever spike clearly when comparing the temperature under the same circumstances (like while sleeping), even if during the day it can't be clearly discerned from the background measurement noise.


----------



## DT

Andropov said:


> The Dynamic Island is one of the smartest design choices I have seen announced in a keynote. They really managed to turn a hardware limitation into a feature. Cool.




It's super clever.  It makes use of the space in a way that makes the pill/cutout seem completely integrated into the user experience (while it's really just an engineering necessity).

We talked (here) about making use of the space around the cutout, but it was still excluding it from the UI elements, where this effectively makes it disappear.  I love how in the presentation, once they got past the "We did this and that and the camera/sensors area is smaller" talking point, they never mentioned it again - it just disappeared into part of the UX.

Looking forward to next month when Samsung announces new phones and introduces Active Archipelago ...


----------



## DT

Citysnaps said:


> Kind of the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> Was also a race to the bottom with inane juvenile comments when menstrual tracking for women was featured on the Watch. And criticizing Apple presenters about their weight and appearance.




I'd like to drag a few MR folks out back ...


----------



## Andropov

Andropov said:


> But AFAIK they only mentioned it once, and it's nowhere to be found in the marketing material.



Whoa, scratch that! The US page of the Apple Watch Series 8 says this:


> *Understand your cycle like never before*. Apple Watch Series 8 has an innovative new sensor that tracks your temperature while you sleep, so you can see changes over time. Cycle Tracking uses this data to provide a retrospective estimate of when you likely ovulated, which can be helpful for family planning. When combined with your heart rate and logged cycle data, you’ll get a detailed view of your menstrual cycle.




While the ES (Spain) website says something completely different! (Rough translation back to english):


> *More data about your general well-being*. Apple Watch Series 8 has an innovative new sensor that tracks your temperature while you sleep. Changes in body temperature, which are sometimes related with factors like alcohol, exercise or even health problems, can be an important source of information about your general well-being.




Maybe the marketing material differs because they can't legally promote its temperature sensor as a medical device in the US? I hadn't noticed seen this kind of changes in marketing materials at all in any other Apple product release. The Spanish website doesn't even mention cycle tracking.

EDIT: Weirdly, every other country matches the USA version, so not a Europe vs US thing. Hm.


----------



## DT

For the wife


----------



## Nycturne

Arrives quickly enough to go do some trekking with it before outdoor season ends…


----------



## Pumbaa

Ah, screw it. 

Series 8 GPS 45mm on the way, arrives Sep 19 - Sep 22. Could've picked it up at the Apple Store Sep 16, but no.


----------



## DT

Oh, and Daughter gets a nice hand-me-down of Wife's current Series 4 

The new Watch above hits two ownership milestones:  first "fixed size" band (we measured several times ...) and the first cellular Watch we've had.  When we were at the theme park this past weekend, a cell Watch would've been plenty for our pretty light communication needs.

I guess the slightly slower delivery time is either a lot of people jumping on 41mm Starlight - or - the custom sized band taking an extra week or so for production.




Nycturne said:


> Arrives quickly enough to go do some trekking with it before outdoor season ends…




Nice!

I was pretty interested in the dive features, but geez, that's maybe once a year, and last trip where I had the opportunity I didn't anyway.

I'm sure there's talk about price, but once you upgrade a Series 8 to a more premium material and add cellular, they're basically the same price.


----------



## Pumbaa

DT said:


> I'm sure there's talk about price, but once you upgrade a Series 8 to a more premium material and add cellular, they're basically the same price.



Yeah, the price works, surprised me a bit. Was actually tempted.


----------



## LIVEFRMNYC

Nycturne said:


> View attachment 17400
> 
> Arrives quickly enough to go do some trekking with it before outdoor season ends…





I ordered the exact same version.


----------



## DT

BTW, I feel like 1/3 of the presentation was talking about eSIM technology ...


----------



## Pumbaa

DT said:


> BTW, I feel like 1/3 of the presentation was talking about eSIM technology ...



Not supported by my new carrier.


----------



## Cmaier

Went through the “prepare for preorder” flow on apple’s web store, and ran into some weirdness.  Won’t let me pre-authorize with my carrier for my wife’s phone number (i guess because she isn’t the primary on the account?). And for mine, after failing a few times, finally it went through but it warned me I would have to pick up the phone in-person at an Apple Store. (Maybe something to do with security and the fact that these are E-sims? I don’t know.)


----------



## MEJHarrison

I'm still on a 12 Pro Max, so I plan to get the new 14 Pro Max.  I typically only upgrade every 2-3 years, so I don't suffer as much buyer's remorse as those who upgrade every year.

I'll probably also get a new watch.  I'm still on a 4.  I'd like the new outdoor model.  I'm an indoorsman, but I'm super hard on watches.  The current one has dings and scratches and is beat to hell.  But paying double is probably not something I'll be interested in.


----------



## Cmaier

MEJHarrison said:


> I'm still on a 12 Pro Max, so I plan to get the new 14 Pro Max.  I typically only upgrade every 2-3 years, so I don't suffer as much buyer's remorse as those who upgrade every year.
> 
> I'll probably also get a new watch.  I'm still on a 4.  I'd like the new outdoor model.  I'm an indoorsman, but I'm super hard on watches.  The current one has dings and scratches and is beat to hell.  But paying double is probably not something I'll be interested in.



I’m also on an Apple Watch 4.  Mine is stainless steel.  It’s in fine shape, and the only thing I feel like I’m missing out on is always-on-display, so I think I’m waiting at least another year before I upgrade the watch.  If the battery starts to fail, that may be the trigger to get me to upgrade, I guess.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> This is why I keep getting banned from Facebook, by the way.



yea well saying _iPhone_ and big ass truck in the same breath can do that in some venues


----------



## Cmaier

Update: i re-entered a preorder for my own phone number and this time it didn’t give the warning about needing to pick the phone up in person. I think they are just having system problems as I get different results each time I prepare another preorder.


----------



## DT

Cmaier said:


> I’m also on an Apple Watch 4.  Mine is stainless steel.  It’s in fine shape, and the only thing I feel like I’m missing out on is always-on-display, so I think I’m waiting at least another year before I upgrade the watch.  If the battery starts to fail, that may be the trigger to get me to upgrade, I guess.




I'm on an S5, it runs solid, works good for the workouts I do, decent water resistance - it was a Swappa score, mint, packaging, with AC (with like 20 or so months left) for $270.  It still has nearly perfect battery, feels functional and fast enough, where I don't need a replacement yet.

So a new Watch for Wife, probably looking at a new 14 for Daughter ... I guess I get nothing


----------



## Cmaier

So A16 has about a billion more transistors than A15, battery life is up slightly, and it went from N5 to N4.  So I’m guessing that there will be a noticeable speed  improvement in the CPU cores (otherwise I’d expect the battery life to have increased by more), but I’m looking forward to seeing some testing once these things are out in the wild.  I think M-series chips are going to share cores with A-series chips for the foreseeable future, so it will give us some good insights into what to expect for M3.


----------



## Colstan

Cmaier said:


> So A16 has about a billion more transistors than A15, battery life is up slightly, and it went from N5 to N4.  So I’m guessing that there will be a noticeable speed  improvement in the CPU cores (otherwise I’d expect the battery life to have increased by more), but I’m looking forward to seeing some testing once these things are out in the wild.  I think M-series chips are going to share cores with A-series chips for the foreseeable future, so it will give us some good insights into what to expect for M3.



This is what I've been waiting to hear about, thanks @Cmaier. I'm looking forward to your further insights. I'm curious to learn more on the A16, as that info becomes available, since that typically impacts the entire Mac line. It's a shame that the folks who did the deep dives at Anandtech are no longer with them, so we're going to be relying upon you more than ever (lucky you).


----------



## Cmaier

Colstan said:


> This is what I've been waiting to hear about, thanks @Cmaier. I'm looking forward to your further insights. I'm curious to learn more on the A16, as that info becomes available, since that typically impacts the entire Mac line. It's a shame that the folks who did the deep dives at Anandtech are no longer with them, so we're going to be relying upon you more than ever (lucky you).



If you see anything reported, please post.  It’s tough to discern much without seeing die photos and benchmarks.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Seems I misunderstood some specs I commented on earlier:

The Pro does have Bluetooth 5.3. The regular 14 does not. 
The Pro does have physical SIM. The regular 14 does not.

I heard somewhere that the regular 14 still has 4 GB of RAM, but can't confirm it.


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> Seems I misunderstood some specs I commented on earlier:
> 
> The Pro does have Bluetooth 5.3. The regular 14 does not.
> The Pro does have physical SIM. The regular 14 does not.
> 
> I heard somewhere that the regular 14 still has 4 GB of RAM, but can't confirm it.



I think the pro does not have a sim in the US?


----------



## Cmaier




----------



## LIVEFRMNYC

Cmaier said:


> I think the pro does not have a sim in the US?




Yup, no sim tray for US.   But you can have two e-sim numbers.


----------



## Deleted member 215

You're right. Misunderstood again 

I saw when they talked about eSIM-only in the 14. I guess I missed where they said it was part of the Pro as well.


----------



## Andropov

I'll be eagerly waiting for the S8 reviews and maybe consider getting one for Christmas. I sincerely hope the temperature sensor is actually useful (even if 'only' for cycle tracking), the last sensor they added (oxygen) seemed pretty gimmicky to me, I don't see how that could be useful to anyone.

Btw, just saw it mentioned somewhere else. The Apple Watch SoC hasn't been updated twice in a row? What could be happening here? Is is simply powerful/efficient enough already? Cutting costs? It's on TSMC's 7nm process, using the efficiency cores (_Thunder_) of the A13 Bionic.


----------



## Renzatic

lizkat said:


> yea well saying _iPhone_ and big ass truck in the same breath can do that in some venues




What? You saying that just cuz I gots a big ass truck, I can’t have a lovely dainty white iPhone?


----------



## Cmaier

LIVEFRMNYC said:


> Yup, no sim tray for US.   But you can have two e-sim numbers.



I am rocking two esims on my iPhone 13 Pro. Works great.


----------



## Citysnaps

After thinking about the iPhone 14 Pro Max and its upgraded cameras for awhile, and deciding I'll likely purchase one, thought I should make a mockup of it from a scrap piece of wood to compare with my 12 Pro that I use now. It fits comfortably in the pocket of the t-shirts I like to wear, so it looks like it's an official go.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> I'll be eagerly waiting for the S8 reviews and maybe consider getting one for Christmas. I sincerely hope the temperature sensor is actually useful (even if 'only' for cycle tracking), the last sensor they added (oxygen) seemed pretty gimmicky to me, I don't see how that could be useful to anyone.
> 
> Btw, just saw it mentioned somewhere else. The Apple Watch SoC hasn't been updated twice in a row? What could be happening here? Is is simply powerful/efficient enough already? Cutting costs? It's on TSMC's 7nm process, using the efficiency cores (_Thunder_) of the A13 Bionic.




I’m guessing they just haven’t found a reason to update it. The power consumption by the processor is probably dwarfed by the screen and radios, and more speed wouldn’t enable any new uses?


----------



## Citysnaps

It's been awhile since I traded an iPhone into Apple while purchasing a new one.

I assume my credit card will be charged the full price for the new phone. And upon receiving it and transferring my old phone's data over, I send my old phone back to Apple in a prepaid mailer/box, and will get a credit for the quoted amount once it's received and check out.  Or something like that.  

Right?


----------



## Runs For Fun

Welp I ordered the Ultra. I’ll also be getting the 14 Pro Max and Air Pods Pro 2.


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> Welp I ordered the Ultra. I’ll also be getting the 14 Pro Max and Air Pods Pro 2.



You’re apple’s favorite kind of customer 

I need to see the Ultra in person. It just looks kind of huge and odd to me so far.


----------



## Clix Pix

Watched the event with interest, as I always do, even though not planning on any purchases right now.  Those days (actually, nights/very early mornings) when I would go and line up at the Apple Store well in advance of the store opening on Launch Day in order to get my hands on the newest iPhone have gone by the wayside.  Those were fun and they are definitely fun memories, though!

Apple Watch:  eventually I will be replacing my Series 3 but I am not in any rush to do so.  It was good to see what's on offer, though a lot doesn't really pertain to me or interest me.  It was lo these many moons ago that I was in the stage of life where ovulation and my monthly cycles were of concern....  I'm not into exercise in a major way, and certainly not into intensive, extreme sports where I would be in situations where the Apple Watch Ultra would be something useful to me.  The extra battery life isn't an issue here, and I wonder how many people realize that although the watch body is larger, that the actual visible screen is probably the same size as the regular largest size Apple Watch faces? 

I have the sneaking suspicion that a lot of people who eagerly jump to order and buy one of these Ultra watches are not at all into sports or activity, but rather are not seeing beyond the extended battery life or getting excited about the potential "look at me, I've got the newest Apple Watch!" factor.  Whether or not Apple intended for the Ultra to be a fashion statement I'm sure that there will be some who purchase one for just what they want to be as the reason.  I suspect that there may be many returns, too, when their new prize that they ordered sight-unseen on Day One  is larger and maybe bulkier, definitely different than what they were anticipating and not really meant as an everyday watch....  That said, I think the target audience for the Apple Watch Ultra will be delighted with it.   In the meantime, there are nice choices in the other Apple Watch Series 8 offerings, too....

AirPods:  since I am not interested in these, won't ever buy any because I can't use them, I took the time that was being expended on announcing whatever is new with them and promoting them to go into another room and fold and put away the laundry I'd done earlier in the day.  That girl's presentation style and the yellow outfit sure didn't help me decide to stay and watch anyway!  Anyway, for those who are excited about the new version of the AirPods, enjoy!

iPhone 14:  meh.   I was waiting for the info about the iPhone 14 Pro.   _This, _the Pro,  is what I will eventually replace my current iPhone 12 Pro with but again I am not in any hurry.  Dynamic Island?  Now that is really cool!   Camera features?  They sound pretty good!  Even though I use my "real" cameras for most of my images, there are times when I'll grab my iPhone and fire off a shot or two, either at home or when out-and-about away from home and I see something interesting. 

Onward and upward now towards the next Apple event, which if rumors are correct, will occur some time in October or maybe November....


----------



## LIVEFRMNYC

Runs For Fun said:


> Welp I ordered the Ultra. I’ll also be getting the 14 Pro Max and Air Pods Pro 2.




. I did the same. Still not sure if I'm going for the Pro 2 yet.


----------



## Cmaier

Clix Pix said:


> …..
> 
> Apple Watch:  eventually I will be replacing my Series 3 but I am not in any rush to do so.  It was good to see what's on offer, though a lot doesn't really pertain to me or interest me.  It was lo these many moons ago that I was in the stage of life where ovulation and my monthly cycles were of concern....  I'm not into exercise in a major way, and certainly not into intensive, extreme sports where I would be in situations where the Apple Watch Ultra would be something useful to me.  The extra battery life isn't an issue here, and I wonder how many people realize that although the watch body is larger, that the actual visible screen is probably the same size as the regular largest size Apple Watch faces?



…


Clix Pix said:


> iPhone 14:  meh.   I was waiting for the info about the iPhone 14 Pro.   _This, _the Pro,  is what I will eventually replace my current iPhone 12 Pro with but again I am not in any hurry.  Dynamic Island?  Now that is really cool!   Camera features?  They sound pretty good!  Even though I use my "real" cameras for most of my images, there are times when I'll grab my iPhone and fire off a shot or two, either at home or when out-and-about away from home and I see something interesting.




FWIW, the screen is definitely signficantly bigger. This is reflected in some of the watch faces, which now have enough room to show 8 complications.  I agree that the iPhone 14 Pro was the best thing they announced; it was also the only real surprise (i.e. the dynamic island),


----------



## DT

Runs For Fun said:


> Welp I ordered the Ultra. I’ll also be getting the 14 Pro Max and Air Pods Pro 2.




I'm kind of thinking about changing over to Air Pods, especially this new Pro 2 model, just kind of packing up my full sized headphones, tube amp, I already cleared my DAC off my desk.  I'm so much about minimal footprint, simplifying, convenience vs. "enthusiast" type electronics like full sized wired headphones using an external DAC and amp  

I use headphones at my desk so rarely, I think I'd get more use with something that has great sound quality AND is portable/convenient. 

That was a huge factor in not getting a whole new setup of huge, wired speakers, keeping the AVR and going with the Sonos.  Two speakers, less wires, no AVR, sounds amazing, excellent voice control, simple, clean.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> You’re apple’s favorite kind of customer
> 
> I need to see the Ultra in person. It just looks kind of huge and odd to me so far.



It's chonky for sure, but the look is kind of growing on me. Plus it's perfect for me since I do ultra marathons.


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> It's chonky for sure, but the look is kind of growing on me. Plus it's perfect for me since I do ultra marathons.



i do whatever the opposite of ultra marathons is.  Slowly meandering to the kitchen?

If apple has updated other non-athletic/non-out-in-nature watchfaces to make use of the space, I may be interested. But they didn’t show anything like that.


----------



## tomO2013

So pre-announcement I went in somewhat cynical that this would be a big release. Honestly I’d see the mockups over at the other place and was feeling somewhat ‘meh’ about everything on offer. 
However… actually seeing the watch ultra and I gotta say the style has really grown on me. Order in.

On Friday I’m definitely going to get a pair of airpod 2’s. I use this daily and the battery on mine has noticeably taken a hit over the last year - it doesn’t help that my apple care has run out on them. 
As for the iPhone, this may have been one of the bigger updates to the iPhone from my perspective in years …
- always on… meh… nice to have but wouldn’t make me want to jump ship.
- Better battery life… yes please!
- 48mp quad pixel and better low light images from the 60% larger sensor ….  I’m in.
- Brighter screen for when I’m flying my drone outdoors … yes please!

All told, this has been a significant wallet lightening exercise watching the keynote. 
Regarding the A16 - if the specifications hold up to what apple was suggesting… 20% less power for the performance cores. I’m very interested to see what these cores get on GB5 and the usual benchmarketing tests. Last year I remember folks were quite negative about the A15 at launch only to find that the A15 came with significant performance gains on the efficiency cores over regular A14! I suspect it will be much the same this year.
Apple didn’t really give anything away either about the GPU - other than the increase in memory bandwidth. Anybody want to guess/speculate whether this is a new GPU core or a breathed over A15 GPU ?
The increase in transistor count doesn’t suggest to me that it deviates much from what exists already in A15.


----------



## theorist9

Colstan said:


> I didn't watch, because there were no Mac announcements. I hope everyone enjoyed it, though. I saw that the A16 is on 4nm, which is interesting, considering that M2 was on 5NP. I wonder if this lends credence to M2 Pro/Max/Ultra/Extreme/Bodacious being 3nm? I know TSMC couldn't handle A-series volume on the rumored early 3nm process, but perhaps a lower volume product like high-end Macs are something TSMC could manage?



TSMC's marketing terminology is confusing but, according to this TSMC announcement, N4 and N4P (what the A16 uses) are both still 5 nm:







__





						Loading…
					





					pr.tsmc.com


----------



## Pumbaa

Runs For Fun said:


> Welp I ordered the Ultra. I’ll also be getting the 14 Pro Max and Air Pods Pro 2.



But did you order them in all available colors?


----------



## Colstan

theorist9 said:


> TSMC's marketing terminology is confusing but, according to this TSMC announcement, N4 and N4P (what the A16 uses) are both still 5 nm:



Thanks for the info, @theorist9. My question was more along the lines of the rumor of the high-end M2 models using 3nm, because we're seeing a slow progression to better processes, even if it's, as you pointed out, somewhat marketing fluff. Our esteemed @Cmaier has heard such rumblings about the M2 Pro, etc. using early 3nm, so that's what I was alluding to, and whether that will actually come to pass. We likely won't know until release, or at least close to it.


----------



## Andropov

Cmaier said:


> So A16 has about a billion more transistors than A15, battery life is up slightly, and it went from N5 to N4.  So I’m guessing that there will be a noticeable speed  improvement in the CPU cores (otherwise I’d expect the battery life to have increased by more), but I’m looking forward to seeing some testing once these things are out in the wild.  I think M-series chips are going to share cores with A-series chips for the foreseeable future, so it will give us some good insights into what to expect for M3.



If this Geekbench result is to be believed, the speed improvements look minimal. But it's obviously unconfirmed yet. Also weird that single core perf went up by ~10% while multicore stayed the same.


----------



## exoticspice1

For the first time ever, the GPU increase is <1%. Really sad. They only impoved the RAM. Qualcomm will beat them in GPU with Gen 2 Snapdragon.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> If this Geekbench result is to be believed, the speed improvements look minimal. But it's obviously unconfirmed yet. Also weird that single core perf went up by ~10% while multicore stayed the same.



Yeah that looks doubtful to me. A 10 percent increase I could believe. I would expect performance plus power reduction to add up to around 30 percent. But multi core should also increase (unless apple did something unprecedented for them like reduce the top clock speed when multiple cores are churning). 

Anyway, if A16 performance cores increase performance by 10 percent while reducing power by 20 percent, and taking into account that maybe 5-10 percent of that is from process improvements, you’d probably end up with M3 getting a decent performance bump at the same power consumption as M2. A really nice speed bump if M3 is on a better node than N4 (which seems likely). 

In other words, 10 percent performance plus 20 percent power savings is pretty good. 

Of course, numbers still look suspicious and we need more data and confirmed data to speculate more intelligently.


----------



## Cmaier

exoticspice1 said:


> For the first time ever, the GPU increase is <1%. Really sad. They only impoved the RAM. Qualcomm will beat them in GPU with Gen 2 Snapdragon.



Could be. I guess the question is whether it makes any difference on a phone.


----------



## DT

exoticspice1 said:


> Qualcomm will beat them in GPU with Gen 2 Snapdragon.




Oh my!  And then what happens?


----------



## Andropov

exoticspice1 said:


> For the first time ever, the GPU increase is <1%. Really sad. They only impoved the RAM. Qualcomm will beat them in GPU with Gen 2 Snapdragon.



I don't think it's possible that they improved GPU memory bandwidth by 50% without it affecting performance significantly. Maybe in some cases where there's not a lot of geometry and memory bandwidth usage is low the improvement is not noticeable. But it has to be significant in memory-bound workloads.



Cmaier said:


> Yeah that looks doubtful to me. A 10 percent increase I could believe. I would expect performance plus power reduction to add up to around 30 percent. But multi core should also increase (unless apple did something unprecedented for them like reduce the top clock speed when multiple cores are churning).
> 
> Anyway, if A16 performance cores increase performance by 10 percent while reducing power by 20 percent, and taking into account that maybe 5-10 percent of that is from process improvements, you’d probably end up with M3 getting a decent performance bump at the same power consumption as M2. A really nice speed bump if M3 is on a better node than N4 (which seems likely).
> 
> In other words, 10 percent performance plus 20 percent power savings is pretty good.
> 
> Of course, numbers still look suspicious and we need more data and confirmed data to speculate more intelligently.



Where's the 20% reduction in power usage number come from? Did they say so in the keynote? If that's true then the improvement it's not minimal at all.


----------



## Andropov

More weirdness in the benchmark result. If we believe it, Apple improved *multicore* AES-XTS encryption by a huge margin: 12.5GB/s on iPhone 14 Pro vs 9.15GB/s on iPhone 13 Pro, a +36% improvement. But, at the same time, single core AES-XTS is only improved by 3.7% (4.83 to 5.01GB/s). Other than that, the multicore score is worse (or equal, at best) in almost every other subset of the multicore Geekbench tests vs the A15 Bionic. The overall multicore score is only about the same as the iPhone 13 Pro because of the unusually high AES-XTS subtest score, take that test out and it would actually be worse than the iPhone 13 Pro.


----------



## Joe

I was tempted by the Watch Ultra but the more I look at it the more it just looks way too big (for me) to also use as an everyday watch alongside the main focus of it. I don’t consider myself some big athlete but I do run, hike and stuff. 

I’ll keep my S4 for now. It’s still in great condition and does what I need. I’ll see what they have next year.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> I don't think it's possible that they improved GPU memory bandwidth by 50% without it affecting performance significantly. Maybe in some cases where there's not a lot of geometry and memory bandwidth usage is low the improvement is not noticeable. But it has to be significant in memory-bound workloads.
> 
> 
> Where's the 20% reduction in power usage number come from? Did they say so in the keynote? If that's true then the improvement it's not minimal at all.



Yeah, they said that in the keynote.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> More weirdness in the benchmark result. If we believe it, Apple improved *multicore* AES-XTS encryption by a huge margin: 12.5GB/s on iPhone 14 Pro vs 9.15GB/s on iPhone 13 Pro, a +36% improvement. But, at the same time, single core AES-XTS is only improved by 3.7% (4.83 to 5.01GB/s). Other than that, the multicore score is worse (or equal, at best) in almost every other subset of the multicore Geekbench tests vs the A15 Bionic. The overall multicore score is only about the same as the iPhone 13 Pro because of the unusually high AES-XTS subtest score, take that test out and it would actually be worse than the iPhone 13 Pro.




Right, that makes no sense at all.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Pumbaa said:


> But did you order them in all available colors?



Haha no but I think we know someone who did.


----------



## Runs For Fun

So the look of the Ultra has really grown on me. I love the look of it. So 100% CAD renders are just pure ugly.


----------



## Pumbaa

Runs For Fun said:


> So the look of the Ultra has really grown on me. I love the look of it. So 100% CAD renders are just pure ugly.



The look works. I’m mostly worried about the size. Maybe there’s an Ultra in my future if I get used to the 45mm 8 first after the tinier 3.


----------



## Nycturne

Pumbaa said:


> The look works. I’m mostly worried about the size. Maybe there’s an Ultra in my future if I get used to the 45mm 8 first after the tinier 3.



It is the size I’m worried about as well. But for me, it’s the bump for the sensors that’s the biggest fit issue. Hoping things have improved since the S3 in that regard.


----------



## Citysnaps

I think Watch Ultra looks terrific and has an outstanding set of features. It's very tempting just from an _exploring the tech_ perspective.

But ultimately think it would look weird on my wrist.  If I was into running, cross country hiking, diving, etc  that would be different - it would then become an essential tool.

Maybe I'll just by another Knipex hand tool, instead.  I have my eye on this one.  Knipex makes the absolute best hand tools for a wide variety of applications. All are made in Germany.


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> Could be. I guess the question is whether it makes any difference on a phone.



Or, quite frankly, a computer. SC/MC performance has run up against a wall-of-irrelevance, where the heavy workloads run off-core and CPU cores are already well beyond good enough for what needs to be done. Who really cares about breaking 2000  when the difference it makes will be imperceptible to, honestly, anyone.


----------



## Herdfan

Renzatic said:


> What? You saying that just cuz I gots a big ass truck, I can’t have a lovely dainty white iPhone?




I have a white 12 Pro and a big ass truck, so sure you can.

I do have it in a black case so the only way you know is by the camera opening though.


----------



## tomO2013

Ugh….  pre-orders strart at 5am PT. 
My wife jokes that it’s the only time I’m able to haul ass out of bed so early, when there is a big apple gadget release that I want!


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Citysnaps said:


> After thinking about the iPhone 14 Pro Max and its upgraded cameras for awhile, and deciding I'll likely purchase one, thought I should make a mockup of it from a scrap piece of wood to compare with my 12 Pro that I use now. It fits comfortably in the pocket of the t-shirts I like to wear, so it looks like it's an official go.
> 
> View attachment 17405





At one point I had whatever the largest iPhone with a home button was, about the size of a checkbook. I really liked it. I skipped the first version that nixed the home button. When I finally ordered a version that didn’t have a home button I assumed that since it didn’t have that and they decreased the bezel that the 2nd to biggest would have at least the same screen size as my old checkbook sized phone. It did not and I was mad.

I know a lot depends on need and preference but for me Apple has been the grandmaster of making me pay a premium slight upgrade on top of their premium price to get something that is at least a little better than casual use.  It's like they are going "What is another $100 on top of $1,000?"  I'll tell you what it is.  It's another $100 for what I feel I shouldn't have to pay another $100 for.


----------



## Cmaier

tomO2013 said:


> Ugh….  pre-orders strart at 5am PT.
> My wife jokes that it’s the only time I’m able to haul ass out of bed so early, when there is a big apple gadget release that I want!



Used to be worse when it was midnight but the system didnt actually start working until 1am


----------



## DT

DT said:


> I'm kind of thinking about changing over to Air Pods [...]




I did not even realize I couldn't order these yet, hahahaha ...


----------



## exoticspice1

Cmaier said:


> Could be. I guess the question is whether it makes any difference on a phone.



Guys, this means M3 if based on A16 won't see ANY meaningful GPU impovement.

The M1 GPU cores were based on A14 mostly and M2 based on A15. Both of these A series chips had GPU increases but the A16 nada.


----------



## exoticspice1

DT said:


> Oh my!  And then what happens?



M3 if based on A16 will show <1% GPU improvement as previous M1/2 chips GPU was based on A14/A15 and these had good GPU improvements


----------



## exoticspice1

Yoused said:


> Who really cares about breaking 2000 when the difference it makes will be imperceptible to, honestly, anyone.



oh please try using a i7 3700K and a i7 12700K big difference. If we don't need CPU improvements we would be stuck on a 4th gen i5 as that was enough for web, email and video.


----------



## Cmaier

exoticspice1 said:


> Guys, this means M3 if based on A16 won't see ANY meaningful GPU impovement.
> 
> The M1 GPU cores were based on A14 mostly and M2 based on A15. Both of these A series chips had GPU increases but the A16 nada.



It doesn’t mean that at all. That’s the whole point of SOC design methods. The gpu is independent of the cpu.


----------



## Cmaier

exoticspice1 said:


> M3 if based on A16 will show <1% GPU improvement as previous M1/2 chips GPU was based on A14/A15 and these had good GPU improvements



M3 won’t have the same gpu as a16. I can guarantee you that.


----------



## Yoused

exoticspice1 said:


> oh please try using a i7 3700K and a i7 12700K big difference.




No thank you, I have had a deep and metastasizing dislike for Anthill CPUs for more than 40 years. Comparing old junk to less-old junk is pretty weak sauce. But, you are speaking of 10 years ago, well before we got close to this wall.


----------



## exoticspice1

Yoused said:


> No thank you, I have had a deep and metastasizing dislike for Anthill CPUs for more than 40 years. Comparing old junk to less-old junk is pretty weak sauce. But, you are speaking of 10 years ago, well before we got close to this wall.



ok then try using a Bulldozer chip and then a Zen 4 chip(when it launches, can't say Zen4 is junk  ). Of course this is desktop but yeah I get what you mean mobile chips are enough cause apps and games are meh on mobile.

Desktop and laptops are the game now. I can't wait to see how Zen 4 and M2 Pro/Max perform on laptop and desktop as games and Pro tools definitely can show the improvement.


----------



## exoticspice1

Cmaier said:


> M3 won’t have the same gpu as a16. I can guarantee you that.



hopefully it won't but past M chips have always been based on A chips.


----------



## exoticspice1

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1567815111007698950/

What do you guys think about this?


----------



## Cmaier

exoticspice1 said:


> hopefully it won't but past M chips have always been based on A chips.



No, they’ve never been based on A chips. The way it works is there are teams working on CPU cores and teams working on GPU cores (under the direction of system architects who figure out how the overall SoC architecture should work for each product).  Once a CPU core is designed, it is plugged into various chips, sort of like a lego brick.  Same with GPU. Same with NPU, etc.  The same core may end up on an A-series chip and a M-series chip (and by “same” I mean same pre-physical netlist.  The gdsii won’t necessarily be the same).  But saying “based on A chips” implies that they design the A-series chip, then say “ok, let’s now move this stuff over to M.”  It doesn’t work like that.  

If you meant to say that the M-series has similar GPU cores to the A-series in the past, that’s a different thing.


----------



## exoticspice1

Cmaier said:


> If you meant to say that the M-series has similar GPU cores to the A-series in the past, that’s a different thing.



Yeah I mean this. I know you can't just copy paste IP but the arch for the CPU and GPU was very mostly the same.


----------



## Cmaier

exoticspice1 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1567815111007698950/
> 
> What do you guys think about this?




It wouldn’t be surprising. After all, how high can IPC go? The maximum IPC is fixed with respect to any given ISA.  As you get closer and closer to that maximum, it takes more and more transistors to eke out less and less improvement.  You can add more ALU pipelines, but the instruction stream may not be able to fill them. Or you can add fancier branch prediction, but maybe that gets you from 95% to 97% correct predictions at the cost of twice the die area/power for that block.  Etc.

The good news is that the maximum IPC for Arm is much higher than for x86-64, so IPC will continue to rise for awhile and at a steeper rate than what Intel and AMD can manager.  Apple hasn’t even had to resort to things like multi threading, etc., yet.  

And if we believe the benchmarks (I don’t yet), keep in mind that Apple claims a 20% reduction in power.  So rather than optimizing for IPC they may have chosen this time to optimize for power.  If that’s what happened, then in the M-series you might see a much higher max clock rate.

That said, I won’t believe the benchmarks until the devices are out in the public and we see more data. The MP scores make no sense, which makes me question the SP scores.


----------



## Runs For Fun

tomO2013 said:


> Ugh….  pre-orders strart at 5am PT.
> My wife jokes that it’s the only time I’m able to haul ass out of bed so early, when there is a big apple gadget release that I want!



_Laughs in Eastern Time_


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> _Laughs in Eastern Time_



Grrr…

Time for me to go to sleep - good news is my old dog usually starts coughing loud at 4:30am, so I’ll probably get up in time.


----------



## Andropov

exoticspice1 said:


> What do you guys think about this?



I still think that Geekbench result is weird (due to the multicore performance, that the tweet ignores). I believe that at least that part is not accurate (unless Apple is doing something new and weird now). _If_ the single core result is accurate, the CPU single core speed bump is smaller than previous years. Maybe Apple's chip designers spent their time in improving power efficiency instead of performance. Maybe they spent their time in other parts of the SoC, there's a new Neural Engine, which is a huge part of the SoC, and the new Photonic Something. Last year, for example, the E cores got the biggest overhaul while the P cores got smaller changes. Or maybe they just hit a wall and couldn't improve it further.


----------



## Citysnaps

Why is everyone up so early?


----------



## Pumbaa

Citysnaps said:


> Why is everyone up so early?



I for one blame CET.


----------



## Andropov

Citysnaps said:


> Why is everyone up so early?



It's 2PM here hehehe.


----------



## Citysnaps

At the other place I'm getting some excellent tips from another member on how to become a _serious_ photographer.


----------



## Cmaier

This year ordering was very smooth, and both my iphone 14 pro max and my wife’s iphone 14 pro are expected next friday.


----------



## DT

Citysnaps said:


> At the other place I'm getting some excellent tips from another member on how to become a _serious_ photographer.




I took a look in a few recent threads, mostly about the new product releases, hahahaha, what a bunch of fucknuts.  Same people just downvoting every single post, and there's a thread about the Queen, and almost every post that's a positive/fond comment or memory of her service has "laughing" reactions.   And people arguing about the most inane shit, you step away from that for a few, you get a really good sense of how many of the posters are just  waste of time/energy/lifecycles.


----------



## Citysnaps

Cmaier said:


> This year ordering was very smooth, and both my iphone 14 pro max and my wife’s iphone 14 pro are expected next friday.




Sane here - once I woke up and remembered I needed to be in the Apple Store _app_ to execute my pre-order. A good experience. Picking mine up next Friday as well.


----------



## Citysnaps

DT said:


> I took a look in a few recent threads, mostly about the new product releases, hahahaha, what a bunch of fucknuts.  Same people just downvoting every single post, and there's a thread about the Queen, and almost every post that's a positive/fond comment or memory of her service has "laughing" reactions.   And people arguing about the most inane shit, you step away from that for a few, you get a really good sense of how many of the posters are just  waste of time/energy/lifecycles.




I think a lot of people there are still in junior high school (7th and 8th grade).


----------



## exoticspice1

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1568123977754869761/
@Cmaier is right


----------



## Andropov

exoticspice1 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1568123977754869761/
> @Cmaier is right



Yep that makes more sense.


----------



## Cmaier

exoticspice1 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1568123977754869761/
> @Cmaier is right




That looks more reasonable, though I’ll still withhold judgment until the phone is circulating to the public.

Assuming it’s true, it looks like SP went from around 1738 to 1887 and MP went from 4766 to 5455.  Clock may have gone from 3.23 to 3.46 GHz.  

So a 7% increase in clock produces a 8.5% increase in SP, and Apple claims a 20% decrease in power consumption. If the core microarchitecture in A16 was identical to A15, and the node was the same, you’d expect a 7% increase in power consumption. N4 is not very different than N5P/N5, but TSMC claims power improvements of around 20% vs the original N5.  Apple got around 27% of performance+power consumption improvement, but changing from N5P to N4 would seem to only account for, say, 15% of that. So there must be microarchitectural and/or design improvements.    For M3, assuming it uses the same core microarchitecture as A16, since I assume Apple will clock for performance instead of power, I’d expect 10-12% performance improvement over M2, plus whatever they get from going to a smaller node (at least N3 for M3).  

As for MP, the buses must have improved since 5455/1887 is higher than 4766/1738.

Again, that all assumes the geekbench scores are accurate and that apple’s claim of 20% power consumption decrease is true and applies to the performance cores.


----------



## fischersd

Citysnaps said:


> Why is everyone up so early?



Funny enough, I'm always up by 5am PT - not ordering anything though. 

Edit:  And yes, not surprised that Apple dropped the mini - though still disappointed that they did.  Funny - that's too small a demographic to make a phone for, but we'll invest R&D for an "extreme" watch?   Yes, there's certainly a lot of people that will buy it "just because", but their target demographic for this is pretty damn small.


----------



## DT

Wife always with the "Do it!"


----------



## Cmaier

fischersd said:


> Funny enough, I'm always up by 5am PT - not ordering anything though.
> 
> Edit:  And yes, not surprised that Apple dropped the mini - though still disappointed that they did.  Funny - that's too small a demographic to make a phone for, but we'll invest R&D for an "extreme" watch?   Yes, there's certainly a lot of people that will buy it "just because", but their target demographic for this is pretty damn small.



Small demographics that are willing to pay more are different than small demographics who want to pay less


----------



## Joe

DT said:


> Wife always with the "Do it!"
> 
> View attachment 17442




YOLO


----------



## fischersd

DT said:


> Wife always with the "Do it!"
> 
> View attachment 17442



Heh...see, I see that and I hear my wife saying "Stop f'ing bothering me!!!" 


Cmaier said:


> Small demographics that are willing to pay more are different than small demographics who want to pay less



Heh..see, you're making the same mistake Apple did - assuming that the Mini market was the same as the SE market.  It's why they missed the mark with that phone.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> This year ordering was very smooth, and both my iphone 14 pro max and my wife’s iphone 14 pro are expected next friday.



Same here. I remember the Apple Cardpocalypse last year. Thankfully it was smooth this year.

And now I wait


----------



## Cmaier

fischersd said:


> Heh...see, I see that and I hear my wife saying "Stop f'ing bothering me!!!"
> 
> Heh..see, you're making the same mistake Apple did - assuming that the Mini market was the same as the SE market.  It's why they missed the mark with that phone.



They tried “small phone” lots of different ways over the years, and each and every time the sales were so small that they couldn’t sell enough. Even when their “small phone” had essentially everything that the normal-sized phone had (minus things that physics simply doesn’t allow), nobody  other than loud folks who post on forums actually bought them.  Raising the price would cut sales even further.  Apple simply hasn’t figured out a way to make enough money on these to justify them.

The Apple Watch Ultra *might* fall into the same bucket - remember the gold Apple Watch - but time will tell.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> They tried “small phone” lots of different ways over the years, and each and every time the sales were so small that they couldn’t sell enough. Even when their “small phone” had essentially everything that the normal-sized phone had (minus things that physics simply doesn’t allow), nobody  other than loud folks who post on forums actually bought them.  Raising the price would cut sales even further.  Apple simply hasn’t figured out a way to make enough money on these to justify them.
> 
> The Apple Watch Ultra *might* fall into the same bucket - remember the gold Apple Watch - but time will tell.



Agree about the Mini. There's a (annoying loud) minority who thinks there's a huge untapped market for a small phone. But the sales have repeatedly shown that's not the case and it's funny watching them be in denial. However I feel the Apple Watch Ultra might be different. It seems pretty popular already.


----------



## rdrr

Runs For Fun said:


> Agree about the Mini. There's a (annoying loud) minority who thinks there's a huge untapped market for a small phone. But the sales have repeatedly shown that's not the case and it's funny watching them be in denial. However I feel the Apple Watch Ultra might be different. It seems pretty popular already.



I think it's popular right now, because it's new.  If you go to the apple store there are only a couple of photos of this monstrous watch on a wrist.  And it seems to be just men.  I remember seeing a quick photo or cutaway of it on a petite woman's wrist during the keynote, and thought to myself.  That is way too large.

Edit: Way too large for petite wrists.


----------



## Citysnaps

rdrr said:


> I think it's popular right now, because it's new.  If you go to the apple store there are only a couple of photos of this monstrous watch on a wrist.  And it seems to be just men.  I remember seeing a quick photo or cutaway of it on a petite woman's wrist during the keynote, and thought to myself.  That is way too large.
> 
> Edit: Way too large for petite wrists.
> View attachment 17446




Kind of looks like it needs a paper tape reader.


----------



## Joe

It would would be fine if it's only used for activities, but looks too big for everyday use (for me) 

I used to wear this bad boy back in day when I was training for marathons. That was huge lol But I didn't wear it all day.


----------



## Citysnaps

Cmaier said:


> The Apple Watch Ultra *might* fall into the same bucket - remember the gold Apple Watch - but time will tell.




My theory is Apple never intended for the $10K gold Apple Watch to be profitable. Rather, it was released to generate media attention about Apple watches in general; and thus generating a lot of buzz for the regular Watch launch. 

Indeed, I remember back then when Watch was released and the gold edition was featured on multiple newscasts and social gossip shows for a few weeks. Yeah, a few musicians/actors/personalities likely purchased some.  But the country/world-wide "free" exposure on television likely aided the successful launch of the regular Watch.


----------



## Runs For Fun

rdrr said:


> I think it's popular right now, because it's new.  If you go to the apple store there are only a couple of photos of this monstrous watch on a wrist.  And it seems to be just men.  I remember seeing a quick photo or cutaway of it on a petite woman's wrist during the keynote, and thought to myself.  That is way too large.
> 
> Edit: Way too large for petite wrists.
> View attachment 17446



Eh, it's a little big for a petite wrist but I don't think it looks too bad.


----------



## Pumbaa

Runs For Fun said:


> Same here. I remember the Apple Cardpocalypse last year. Thankfully it was smooth this year.
> 
> And now I wait
> View attachment 17443



Looking forward to hear about the Ultra, Shops For Fun!


----------



## quagmire

I wasn’t going to upgrade this year. But decided to this morning. 

Went for the deep purple pro max.


----------



## DT

quagmire said:


> I wasn’t going to upgrade this year. But decided to this morning.
> 
> Went for the deep purple pro max.




What are you upgrading from?


----------



## quagmire

DT said:


> What are you upgrading from?




13 Pro Max.

I’m in the iUP.


----------



## Hrafn

DT said:


> I took a look in a few recent threads, mostly about the new product releases, hahahaha, what a bunch of fucknuts.  Same people just downvoting every single post, and there's a thread about the Queen, and almost every post that's a positive/fond comment or memory of her service has "laughing" reactions.   And people arguing about the most inane shit, you step away from that for a few, you get a really good sense of how many of the posters are just  waste of time/energy/lifecycles.



We're still friends, though, right?


----------



## DT

Hahaha, why are people being goons about the name, 'Dynamic Island'.  You simply use it, heck, you could even show it someone the feature without ever needing to use the official name.

People are also acting like weirdos about the implementation.  It's a camera cutout, covered by / integrated into, a UI treatment.  I've seen comments that sounds like they think he camera implementation was specifically to have the Dynamic Island vs. it being a way to deal with a hardware engineering requirement.


----------



## Alli

quagmire said:


> I wasn’t going to upgrade this year. But decided to this morning.
> 
> Went for the deep purple pro max.



Had I upgraded, that’s what I would have gone for. My daughter and I have both decided to hold out for USB-C.


----------



## Citysnaps

DT said:


> *Hahaha, why are people being goons about the name,* 'Dynamic Island'.  You simply use it, heck, you could even show it someone the feature without ever needing to use the official name.
> 
> People are also acting like weirdos about the implementation.  It's a camera cutout, covered by / integrated into, a UI treatment.  I've seen comments that sounds like they think he camera implementation was specifically to have the Dynamic Island vs. it being a way to deal with a hardware engineering requirement.




It's baffling. So much that I want to be a Sociologist in my next life to get a better understanding of what happened over the last six or seven years.   Maybe someone like Seymour Lipset, a past George Mason, Berkeley, and Stanford sociology professor and political scientist who passed away in the mid-2000s.

My theory:  It's a combination of trumpism and covid.  It's now OK to be outraged and frothed up at the drop of  a hat.  trump as a whiney toddler set an example, giving people permission to act out in such a manner. For the tiniest little inconsequential mice-nuts things. Dynamic Island is an outstanding example.

Being cooped up due to covid (mostly in the past) without normal social interaction with other humans has inspired lashing out for attention to feel good and be noticed, providing a little jolt of feel-good power. The problem is that little burst of power is short-lived and needs to be replenished daily to get through life and stay charged up and happy.  The other place provides a perfect breeding ground for the above.


----------



## DT

Joe said:


> YOLO




Hahaha, Yes!  We're generally in YOLO mode, I just don't like "wasting money", i.e., something I wouldn't use much, and when I do, it kind of doesn't improve anything all that much.  I'm not really much of an earbud user, like I'm not on commuting, using them for calls, etc., and I really prefer full sized.  I have a pair of Anker (nuds) that are pretty solid, fit good, I have my Senns/Beyers, at my desk I mostly just use my speakers, or fire the Sonos in the other room.

If anything, I should shop some wireless on/over ears.


----------



## MEJHarrison

DT said:


> Hahaha, why are people being goons about the name, 'Dynamic Island'




Because it's a goofy, non-Apple name?  We're used to iIsland or Apple Island.  Dynamic Island just has a weird ring to it.  Especially for an Apple product.

That said, I think it's wicked cool and a silly name isn't going to stop me from getting a new phone this year.  Even if I didn't think it was a good idea, I'd be getting a new phone (because I'm a grown up who doesn't think Apple needs to produce a product that is 100% perfect _*for ME*_).


----------



## DT

Citysnaps said:


> It's baffling. So much that I want to be a Sociologist in my next life to get a better understanding of what happened over the last six or seven years.




People, community interaction, motivations, etc., completely fascinate me.

It's funny you say this, we just ran to midtown - some new K-Pop had dropped for the daughter and I hit the adult beverage store  - anyway, I was talking about "bitching culture" with the wife, and how that's become such a thing, deep diving into meaningless bullshit, being hypercritical has become some kind of badge of honor. "Look at me, I don't find anything satisfying!" 

Of course, there's another component, what you addressed,  attacking/defending your position, to the point of rage, and of course, having anonymous platforms for it has helped to cultivate that behavior.


----------



## DT

MEJHarrison said:


> Because it's a goofy, non-Apple name?  We're used to iIsland or Apple Island.  Dynamic Island just has a weird ring to it.  Especially for an Apple product.
> 
> That said, I think it's wicked cool and a silly name isn't going to stop me from getting a new phone this year.  Even if I didn't think it was a good idea, I'd be getting a new phone (because I'm a grown up who doesn't think Apple needs to produce a product that is 100% perfect _*for ME*_).




Oh yeah, it's not that it isn't kind of silly, but people are spending an absurd amount of energy denouncing it because of the name, I saw someone write, ITS SO PRETENTIOUS I CANT GET OVER IT ...

Really?  Just get the kick ass iPhone 14, take some amazing pics, enjoy the device, marvel at the clever way they integrated the UI with the sensors and don't say the name Apple uses ...




DT said:


> If anything, I should shop some wireless on/over ears.




Geez, the Apple AirPod Max are $429 (~$407 effective after 5% CB ...), all colors, on Amazon right now ($120 discount).


----------



## Cmaier

DT said:


> Oh yeah, it's not that it isn't kind of silly, but people are spending an absurd amount of energy denouncing it because of the name, I saw someone write, ITS SO PRETENTIOUS I CANT GET OVER IT ...
> 
> Really?  Just get the kick ass iPhone 14, take some amazing pics, enjoy the device, marvel at the clever way they integrated the UI with the sensors and don't say the name Apple uses ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geez, the Apple AirPod Max are $429 (~$407 effective after 5% CB ...), all colors, on Amazon right now ($120 discount).




Worst apple name ever was “iPad.” It sounded like a feminine hygiene product when it was first announced. We got over it.

As for Dynamic Island, it sounds weird because it mixes something technical with something natural.  But it’s fine.   They’ve a history of names that sound a little weird at first. Digital Crown. Deep Fusion. Super Retina. Vingle.


----------



## DT

I was just glad they went with Lightning Port vs. the original idea ... Electro Anus.


----------



## fischersd

DT said:


> I was just glad they went with Lightning Port vs. the original idea ... Electro Anus.



They should get rid of the port entirely.  Put a 30 pin connector under the bottom edge of the phone that's flush with the surface, that can be used by the repair staff by seating it in a cradle in their shop at the Apple Store (or Apple Authorized Repair Centre...heh...or in the toolkit you can sign out)  

People can charge wirelessly - and hell, give them a cradle they can buy if they really need to be able to have a hard-wired connection to their phone so they can put it into DFU mode and blast an IPSW onto it when they brick it (for the Dev's)


----------



## Cmaier

DT said:


> I was just glad they went with Lightning Port vs. the original idea ... Electro Anus.




The Hypertransport bus at AMD was called Lightning Data Transport (LDT) by us engineers - we were surprised they didn’t just go with that.


----------



## Cmaier

fischersd said:


> They should get rid of the port entirely.  Put a 30 pin connector under the bottom edge of the phone that's flush with the surface, that can be used by the repair staff by seating it in a cradle in their shop at the Apple Store (or Apple Authorized Repair Centre...heh...or in the toolkit you can sign out)
> 
> People can charge wirelessly - and hell, give them a cradle they can buy if they really need to be able to have a hard-wired connection to their phone so they can put it into DFU mode and blast an IPSW onto it when they brick it (for the Dev's)




The wireless connectivity to Xcode is pretty flakey, so every developer would buy that cradle.


----------



## quagmire

fischersd said:


> They should get rid of the port entirely.  Put a 30 pin connector under the bottom edge of the phone that's flush with the surface, that can be used by the repair staff by seating it in a cradle in their shop at the Apple Store (or Apple Authorized Repair Centre...heh...or in the toolkit you can sign out)
> 
> People can charge wirelessly - and hell, give them a cradle they can buy if they really need to be able to have a hard-wired connection to their phone so they can put it into DFU mode and blast an IPSW onto it when they brick it (for the Dev's)




I prefer to charge hard wired. 

Faster and produces less heat.


----------



## fischersd

quagmire said:


> I prefer to charge hard wired.
> 
> Faster and produces less heat.



Yeah, they could always do some sort of MagSafe connector that actually latches onto the end of the phone (heh - but what would they call it, now that they've gone and repurposed that name for the iPhone's "wireless" charging connectors) 

Edit:  Also, charging faster always used to reduce your battery life - I know Apple's done some work on throttling how quickly that happens - but I tend to have "wireless" chargers just about everywhere, so fine "trickle charging" to top it up on the regular.


----------



## Yoused

DT said:


> … I was talking about "bitching culture" with the wife, and how that's become such a thing, deep diving into meaningless bullshit, being hypercritical has become some kind of badge of honor. "Look at me, I don't find anything satisfying!"




That was me caused that. I am never happy unless I am complaining or pissed off about something (or as the kids say these days, "sth"). How that works exactly, never happy except whenkI am not, is a bit baffling, but all happiness amounts to is the brief pause between the right crross and the uppercut – life sucks, so ride the misery like Muad'dib on a sandworm.


----------



## zakarhino

The most baffling thing to come out of the whole Dynamic Island situation has nothing to do with the name and everything to do with people's complete infatuation with the way it integrates notifications. I get it's a nice to have feature for keeping track of timers, uber rides, or whatever but there were people making threads about how it's a game changer and it alone has convinced them to upgrade. That's kind of insane to me considering when the feature was demo'd during the keynote I honestly didn't feel any sort of way about it, I barely registered it as a feature but rather a reskin of what already exists in iOS 16.


----------



## Cmaier

zakarhino said:


> The most baffling thing to come out of the whole Dynamic Island situation has nothing to do with the name and everything to do with people's complete infatuation with the way it integrates notifications. I get it's a nice to have feature for keeping track of timers, uber rides, or whatever but there were people making threads about how it's a game changer and it alone has convinced them to upgrade. That's kind of insane to me considering when the feature was demo'd during the keynote I honestly didn't feel any sort of way about it, I barely registered it as a feature but rather a reskin of what already exists in iOS 16.



It’s sort of like putting live activities on the Home Screen, so it doesnt just exist on the lock screen. Nobody has had a chance to really play with live activities yet, but I can think of a lot of use cases where persistently-updated status or controls like that could be useful.  It all depends on how you use your phone, though - in my case i tend to unlock it, do something, and turn it off.  Live activities and the dynamic island would be much more interesting to me on ipad. In fact, on ipad it could also behave sort of like a modern version of the menu bar.


----------



## Citysnaps

Looking forward to picking up my 14 ProMax at the Apple Store tomorrow and using the cameras. Have a feeling I'll be pleased.


----------



## Cmaier

Citysnaps said:


> Looking forward to picking up my 14 ProMax at the Apple Store tomorrow and using the cameras. Have a feeling I'll be pleased.



My pro max and my wife’s pro are arriving tomorrow by UPS. I’ll probably work most of the day from home to receive them, since they are moving my office up a floor anyway tomorrow.


----------



## zakarhino

Citysnaps said:


> It's baffling. So much that I want to be a Sociologist in my next life to get a better understanding of what happened over the last six or seven years.   Maybe someone like Seymour Lipset, a past George Mason, Berkeley, and Stanford sociology professor and political scientist who passed away in the mid-2000s.
> 
> My theory:  It's a combination of trumpism and covid.  It's now OK to be outraged and frothed up at the drop of  a hat.  trump as a whiney toddler set an example, giving people permission to act out in such a manner. For the tiniest little inconsequential mice-nuts things. Dynamic Island is an outstanding example.
> 
> Being cooped up due to covid (mostly in the past) without normal social interaction with other humans has inspired lashing out for attention to feel good and be noticed, providing a little jolt of feel-good power. The problem is that little burst of power is short-lived and needs to be replenished daily to get through life and stay charged up and happy.  The other place provides a perfect breeding ground for the above.




I'm Gen Z, a lot of us grew up interacting with social media platforms where the default mode of communication is to 1) try and dunk on people by insulting them and 2) put on a false personality, almost as if you were a character in a TV show. Take a look at the average conversation between two people with different opinions on Twitter and without a doubt the person with more interactions/likes is the person being as rude, condescending, and dismissive as possible. It seems like the point of these interactions is never to find commonality or truth between people but instead to identify some kind of difference of opinion and consequently define any and all relationships by those differences. I know this isn't a universal behavior because the majority of content I consume on twitter for example is niche good faith conversations between engineers and academics. However once you venture out into the areas where the bulk of online 'discourse' happens (even around the most mundane of subjects) you quickly expose yourself to the toxicity. Just people arguing over absolutely nothing because social media exaggerates the real state of the world and distracts from what matters. No doubt I'm guilty of this too at times, especially on MR which is basically the only social media site I post on. I've tried to tone it down over time so my posts are more in line with the sort of politeness myself and others in my world convey in person. This becomes easier the more time you spend actually interacting with real people that spend their time constructing the world around them rather than constantly complaining about it. Still, that snarky dismissive behavior I mentioned, that particular brand of hatred and nihilism, is slowly branded within you from day one of using these platforms. You don't necessarily do it consciously, you do it because that's what everyone around you is doing.

All this to say there used to be a separation: you were rude online but toned it down in person. Now for some, especially a selection of young Gen Z'ers and terminally online jaded Millennials, that acidic attitude and tone has made its way into the real world, whether you're interacting with complete strangers or family members. The behavior is reinforced by friend groups (more appropriately in some cases: 'cliques') emulating that behavior and justifying it via a false sense of superiority over everyone around them; like they're the only ones that 'get it' and everyone else is a stupid rube. Some of those friend groups don't even exist in reality, but rather as a group in the online world. It's tribalism on steroids that is disconnected from material reality -- all of it supercharged by the attention economy of social media, YouTube 'influencers,' and media that idolizes being as degenerate and attention seeking as possible. This is where the real problems start, when the facade of the internet world starts to have real consequences in the real material world -- I'm sure I don't need to post examples of this.

The archetype of the moody, rude teenager has existed for aeons, but there usually comes a point where you have to grow up and deal with the real world: to accept the contradictions, the unfairness, the differences, and the ugliness that you may encounter as you transition into an adulthood defined by goals and growth. Once upon a time that transition was aided by everyone around you being an adult too, there were examples to learn from in your own community and in your country (as a Brit I grew up idolizing the industrialist Isambard Kingdom Brunel for example). Nowadays there's an epidemic of people that haven't graduated to adulthood despite being in their late 20s, 30s, 40s, heck even 50s+. The kind of examples for kids today include YouTubers and influencers that have little to no value in the real economy. According to some polls the number one job kids aspire to in America is "Social Media Influencer" meanwhile in China (irrespective of your opinions on that country) it's "Astronaut" and "Engineer." In some ways I agree with those that claim social media is a national security threat, not because of accusations of Russian/Chinese election interference or 'misinformation,' but because of something a lot more tangible: its stupefying effect on the population. Even before concerns over the Chinese owned TikTok became a thing domestic companies like Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube were already contributing towards the problem, bloody hell they practically kickstarted it, all because their engineers discovered you can induce more usage by enraging users over all other emotions. Jake Paul isn't a misinformation agent, he's just an idiot that makes money from being as dumb as possible.

I'm not necessarily trying to make a judgement over people's souls because I really believe this sort of behavior is redeemable, it may even correct itself as people slowly wake up again... but all of this makes me fearful for the future of my countries (the USA where I live now and my homeland of the UK). I don't put the blame on the majority of people either because the dominant mood today is despair over whether or not we have a future worth working toward. Many people can't afford to start a family for example. I think many of us want the same things but some people have convinced themselves the divide is so large that their own existence is contingent upon the destruction of everyone else and that the only thing worth pursuing, in lieu of any meaningful path to take in the real world, is to be a personality online and thus the descent continues.


----------



## zakarhino

My 14 Pro Max just arrived at the UPS local distribution center. Looking forward to taking lots of pics for sure. Next week I'm gonna see if my local store has any Watch Ultras in stock on release day (I kinda doubt it). I feel like all I really need is the Series 8 though, there's nothing about the Ultra that is essential for me. I don't even need cellular because I've never used my watch without my phone in my pocket.


----------



## Citysnaps

zakarhino said:


> My 14 Pro Max just arrived at the UPS local distribution center. Looking forward to taking lots of pics for sure. Next week I'm gonna see if my local store has any Watch Ultras in stock on release day (I kinda doubt it). I feel like all I really need is the Series 8 though, there's nothing about the Ultra that is essential for me. I don't even need cellular because I've never used my watch without my phone in my pocket.




Excellent and thoughtful analysis up above about the state of social media interaction today, and its consequences.

Regarding your 14 ProMax, there's a recent (about an hour ago) story on MR about a potential iOS 16 bug that may impact iPhone 14 activation, possibly related to "open" (meaning non-private?) WiFi networks. Worth a read.  I'm hoping there will be more detailed information tomorrow.


----------



## lizkat

MEJHarrison said:


> Because it's a goofy, non-Apple name?  We're used to iIsland or Apple Island.  Dynamic Island just has a weird ring to it.  Especially for an Apple product.
> 
> That said, I think it's wicked cool and a silly name isn't going to stop me from getting a new phone this year.  Even if I didn't think it was a good idea, I'd be getting a new phone (because I'm a grown up who doesn't think Apple needs to produce a product that is 100% perfect _*for ME*_).




My problem with 'Dynamic Island' is indeed that it's just hard to remember.  I call it 'the thing instead of the notch...'


----------



## DT

DT said:


> I think maybe it's time for the wife and daughter to get an upgrade.
> 
> And I totally dig on that design for the Watch Pro, that's probably a "day one" order, definitely the next gen for the wife (not sure if she's into a beefier design).





Oh yeah, maybe the wife DOES want a new phone


----------



## Cmaier




----------



## Citysnaps

Cmaier said:


> View attachment 17714



Curious... did you update your new 14 to iOS 16.0.1 first?

About to move forward on my transfer between phones. And wondering if I should do that (some people saying it **might** prevent a glitch).


----------



## Cmaier

Citysnaps said:


> Curious... did you update your new 14 to iOS 16.0.1 first?
> 
> About to move forward on my transfer between phones. And wondering if I should do that (some people saying it **might** prevent a glitch).




I don’t think 16.0.1 is even available for other phones?

What I did (which seemed to go smoothly, and had some new wrinkles I’ve never seen before):

1) on old phone, unpair my apple watch
2) start the phone transfer process
3) connect the old and new phones with a wire (via the lightning camera adapter and a lightning cable or two). 
4) let it do its thing
5) my main phone account activated pretty easily (took awhile in the background). the phone was shipped to me with it set up for that number, though.  (Will do my wife’s phone next, and that one was not set up ahead of time by Apple, so we’ll see what that entails)
6) once everything transferred (took about an hour before it got to the point where I could use the phone, with it doing icloud magic in the background and downloading apps), I tried to transfer my other esim, which is for a prepaid account on a different carrier.  it wouldn’t let me (“not eligible.”). I called the carrier, who each year prior had to send me a QR code.  This year she asked for my IMEI and told me it would magically happen within 2 hours.
7) she wasn’t quite right. What I needed to do then was to go into settings and “add sim,” and this time it listed my carrier’s name. I was able to select that new entry and everything worked.  (Note: it also listed a phone number corresponding to that carrier as another entry, which was already there and does not work if you select it - that came over when it transferred the info from my old phone. So you need two entries, and only the one that just says “carrier name” works).
8) paired my Apple Watch with the new phone
9) activated the device manager software used by my lawfirm.  Within about 15 minutes i had my work email and calendar working.
10) go into settings |privacy and enable developer mode
11) pair with Xcode and install a project on it to test that Xcode works with it
12) install the code I need for my RSA app.
13) do the 16.0.1 update.  Note that messages was already working, so I don’t know if i really needed to.

That’s it. Everything *seems* to work.  Haven’t played with it at all.  I do enjoy staring at the dynamic island.


----------



## Cmaier

Found one wrinkle: covid vaccine cards in the Wallet app don’t transfer over. The easiest way to take care of that was for me to point my new phone’s camera at my old phone’s QR code, and then add them to the wallet that way.  When I launched “health.app” it did tell me that i could add a vaccine card, but since i have 3 (one for each family member) and it only gave me a chance to do one of them, I needed a way to add the other two.


----------



## Citysnaps

Cmaier said:


> I don’t think 16.0.1 is even available for other phones?
> 
> What I did (which seemed to go smoothly, and had some new wrinkles I’ve never seen before):
> 
> 1) on old phone, unpair my apple watch
> 2) start the phone transfer process
> 3) connect the old and new phones with a wire (via the lightning camera adapter and a lightning cable or two).
> 4) let it do its thing
> 5) my main phone account activated pretty easily (took awhile in the background). the phone was shipped to me with it set up for that number, though.  (Will do my wife’s phone next, and that one was not set up ahead of time by Apple, so we’ll see what that entails)
> 6) once everything transferred (took about an hour before it got to the point where I could use the phone, with it doing icloud magic in the background and downloading apps), I tried to transfer my other esim, which is for a prepaid account on a different carrier.  it wouldn’t let me (“not eligible.”). I called the carrier, who each year prior had to send me a QR code.  This year she asked for my IMEI and told me it would magically happen within 2 hours.
> 7) she wasn’t quite right. What I needed to do then was to go into settings and “add sim,” and this time it listed my carrier’s name. I was able to select that new entry and everything worked.  (Note: it also listed a phone number corresponding to that carrier as another entry, which was already there and does not work if you select it - that came over when it transferred the info from my old phone. So you need two entries, and only the one that just says “carrier name” works).
> 8) paired my Apple Watch with the new phone
> 9) activated the device manager software used by my lawfirm.  Within about 15 minutes i had my work email and calendar working.
> 10) go into settings |privacy and enable developer mode
> 11) pair with Xcode and install a project on it to test that Xcode works with it
> 12) install the code I need for my RSA app.
> 13) do the 16.0.1 update.  Note that messages was already working, so I don’t know if i really needed to.
> 
> That’s it. Everything *seems* to work.  Haven’t played with it at all.  I do enjoy staring at the dynamic island.




Thanks - appreciate it!   I don't have the necessary adapters/cables to transfer  Lightening to Lightening.  But I do have fast WiFi.  Oh, on 16.01, I meant installing it first on your new iPhone 14 - and then doing the transfer.


----------



## Cmaier

Citysnaps said:


> Thanks - appreciate it!   I don't have the necessary adapters/cables to transfer  Lightening to Lightening.  But I do have fast WiFi.  Oh, on 16.01, I meant installing it first on your new iPhone 14 - and then doing the transfer.



Oh, i see. No, I did the OS upgrade after everything was transferred over.


----------



## Citysnaps

Just opened the box and am looking at the phone.

One thing I noticed right away is the top surface of the round shrouds around the camera lenses are black. As opposed to reflective silver-gray on my iPhone 12.  I'm hoping that significantly reduces (ideally eliminating) lens flare - though the black is a little reflective, just not as much. Would have been better flat black.

That's been a real issue and pet peeve of mine about the iPhone 12 camera as I've ruined some decent photos in the past not being aware of the issue, nor spotting it when quickly reviewing photos on the phone display in bright light.

And yeah... it's a *big* phone!


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> Found one wrinkle: covid vaccine cards in the Wallet app don’t transfer over. The easiest way to take care of that was for me to point my new phone’s camera at my old phone’s QR code, and then add them to the wallet that way.  When I launched “health.app” it did tell me that i could add a vaccine card, but since i have 3 (one for each family member) and it only gave me a chance to do one of them, I needed a way to add the other two.



Well that's annoying. Thanks for the heads up. Still waiting on delivery!


----------



## Andropov

Citysnaps said:


> One thing I noticed right away is the top surface of the round shrouds around the camera lenses are black. As opposed to reflective silver-gray on my iPhone 12.  I'm hoping that significantly reduces (ideally eliminating) lens flare - though the black is a little reflective, just not as much. Would have been better flat black.
> 
> That's been a real issue and pet peeve of mine about the iPhone 12 camera as I've ruined some decent photos in the past not being aware of the issue, nor spotting it when quickly reviewing photos on the phone display in bright light.



It was already black on the 13


----------



## DT

Andropov said:


> It was already black on the 13




How much more black can it be?

The answer is none ... none ... more ... black.


----------



## Citysnaps

Andropov said:


> It was already black on the 13




Did it eliminate/reduce lens flare?

Here's a typical example. The Sun was out of the frame.


----------



## lizkat

DT said:


> How much more black can it be?
> 
> The answer is none ... none ... more ... black.




But the front glass or ceramic or whatever might have properties that make it look different. 

I would be upgrading from a XR and still thinking instead of a 14 getting an Apple-refurb-shelf 13 model, not sure which one but there's time yet to wait for those to show up.    Of the 13's colors i like that product red...


----------



## Andropov

Citysnaps said:


> Did it eliminate/reduce lens flare?



I haven't had any lens flare issues with my 13 Pro.


----------



## DT

@lizkat 

I love Apple refurbs, we've had a number of them, heck, this Mini I work on 12+ hours a day is a refurb.


----------



## Cmaier

Citysnaps said:


> Did it eliminate/reduce lens flare?
> 
> Here's a typical example. The Sun was out of the frame.



I’ve never seen anything like that on my 13 Pro Max.  Didn’t have a 12, but never saw that on my 11 Pro Max either.


----------



## Yoused

DT said:


> How much more black can it be?
> 
> The answer is none ... none ... more ... black.



Well, there is Vantablack, the blackest black of all blacks.


----------



## Andropov

Huh, I just realised that iOS 16 removes all the old stock wallpapers (including the ones that came with the phone) and the wallpaper's dark mode. Hope Apple reverts that (at lest the missing dark mode) in iOS 16.1...


----------



## Cmaier

Now setting up my wife’s phone. It’s now on the “copying data” step, and at no point did it present anything about activating on a cell network.  I guess that will happen after everything is transferred over?


----------



## Citysnaps

Cmaier said:


> I guess that will happen after everything is transferred over?




That's how it happened for me. And that part went smoothly.

Some initial stuff did not go smoothly. Ended up restoring (with a Lightning cable from my Mac) my new phone from a backup I made earlier this morning of my old phone. Fortunately that worked perfectly.

Regarding cellular transfer... was a little nervous thinking one possible outcome would be neither new or old phones would end up having cellular access.


----------



## Cmaier

Citysnaps said:


> That's how it happened for me. And that part went smoothly.
> 
> Some initial stuff did not go smoothly. Ended up restoring (with a Lightning cable from my Mac) my new phone from a backup I made earlier this morning of my old phone. Fortunately that worked perfectly.
> 
> Regarding cellular transfer... was a little nervous thinking one possible outcome would be neither new or old phones would end up have cellular access.



Yeah, it asked me when it was done. Problem was, my wife turned off her passcode (you need one on the old phone) and never updated to 16.0 (you need that on the old phone), so it didn’t see the old phone as a source for the sim.  So now I am updating her phone to 16.0.


----------



## Cmaier

In the end I just activated the phone on my carrier’s website. The website said it failed, but when I went to “cellular” in the settings it popped up a box that said “carrier is requesting to activate…”.   I hit “ok” or whatever, and it activated.  The carrier’s website shows that it is the right phone, so I guess it worked out.


----------



## quagmire

So I like the deep purple color. 

Already turned off always on display. 

Dynamic island isn’t bad at all. 

Overall a meh upgrade, but isn’t surprising since I came from a 13 PM.


----------



## diamond.g

@Cmaier I see you did the cable transfer, does airdrop to contacts work for you?


----------



## Runs For Fun

Everything went smoothly for me. I did the iPhone to iPhone transfer. Never had a problem with that method. It initially said it would take and hour but only ended up taking 25-30 minutes. I wasn’t sure how the activation was going to go with eSIM to eSIM but it went flawlessly. I just selected transfer number and after about a minute it was activated. 

Really loving the deep purple. Dynamic Island is so cool. Whoever thought of making a UI element like that around a hardware feature is a genius. I can’t wait for them to open the API up to third party apps. The AOD is pretty cool. I think I’ll leave it on unless I see it eating my battery.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Also I just noticed that the little waveform animation in Dynamic Island when you’re listening to audio isn’t just an animation. It’s actually the waveform of what you’re listening to. Neat.


----------



## Cmaier

diamond.g said:


> @Cmaier I see you did the cable transfer, does airdrop to contacts work for you?



It seems to?


----------



## diamond.g

Cmaier said:


> It seems to?



When we upgraded last year it didn’t work right. I haven’t tried with my 14 yet though.


----------



## Citysnaps

A bit of feedback on my iPhone 14 ProMax...

I thought Always on Display would be pretty neat and was looking forward to the feature. But...after using it for awhile I decided to turn it off.  There's always a clock nearby and/or I'm usually wearing my Apple Watch. That takes care of time/date.

I added widgets to show news headlines, stocks, temp, etc. But if my phone is on the table, and AOD is dimmed to the point of needing to pick my phone up, actually opening a news app in a normal display/brightness really ins't a chore.  Temperature is already on my watch.

For me...it seems AOD is a halfway feature.   Halfway interesting, halfway annoying.

Other than the above, I really like the phone.  Need to get a case for it today.


----------



## fischersd

Citysnaps said:


> A bit of feedback on my iPhone 14 ProMax...
> 
> I thought Always on Display would be pretty neat and was looking forward to the feature. But...after using it for awhile I decided to turn it off.  There's always a clock nearby and/or I'm usually warring my Apple Watch. That takes care of time/date.
> 
> I added widgets to show news headlines, stocks, temp, etc. But if my phone is on the table, and AOD is dimmed to the point of needing to pick my phone up, actually opening a news app in a normal display/brightness really ins't a chore.  Temperature is already on my watch.
> 
> For me...it seems AOD is a halfway feature.   Halfway interesting, halfway annoying.
> 
> Other than the above, I really like the phone.  Need to get a case for it today.



Someone should do a widget that gives you the blinking red light for notifications   (Ala BlackBerry). I'm sure there's a few that would like that - not just for nostalgia either.


----------



## Cmaier

This is pretty neat. Depending on what speed and direction you swipe apps away, the animations for the dynamic island adjust based on the physics of it all.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1571206218093559809/


----------



## Cmaier

Also, the camera is apparently very nice. (I haven’t tried it myself yet).

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1571209773303070721/


----------



## diamond.g

I just got crash detection to fire on Lochness Monster (rollercoaster at Busch Gardens). Luckily I was able to cancel it from my watch.


----------



## Pumbaa

diamond.g said:


> I just got crash detection to fire on Lochness Monster (rollercoaster at Busch Gardens). Luckily I was able to cancel it from my watch.



This one?

Do you know what got it to trigger? The final slowdown? Loop? Transition from down to up? Tooth fairy?


----------



## diamond.g

Pumbaa said:


> This one?
> 
> Do you know what got it to trigger? The final slowdown? Loop? Transition from down to up? Tooth fairy?



I believe it was the stop at the end (before entering the loading area). 

Pantheon, Verbolten, or Apollos Chariot didn’t trigger it.


----------



## Pumbaa

diamond.g said:


> I believe it was the stop at the end (before entering the loading area).
> 
> Pantheon, Verbolten, or Apollos Chariot didn’t trigger it.



Thanks for your dedication to product testing.


----------



## Runs For Fun

The AOD is really growing on me even though I have an Apple Watch!


----------



## Runs For Fun

Anyone having better performance on 5G with the 14? I didn't have any issue with 5G with my 12 Pro Max. By the time the 13 came out 5G was pretty much everywhere in my area. Then when I upgraded to the 13 I noticed it was constantly dropping to LTE in areas I previously had 5G and sometimes it was painfully slow, almost unusable. With the 14 so far it seems to be back to how it was with the 12. I haven't seen it drop to LTE like it was with the 13.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Oh this is cool!
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1571205306180571136/


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> Oh this is cool!
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1571205306180571136/



When you swipe hard, the bouncing island actually can knock the clock out of place, and then it snaps back. The physics is all very nicely done.


----------



## Pumbaa

Time to get a Dynamic Island iPhone? 

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1570863225234923520/


----------



## Cmaier

Pumbaa said:


> Time to get a Dynamic Island iPhone?
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1570863225234923520/




Been a long time since I’ve run Neko on the Solaris workstations in the tiny research computer closet they shoved my graduate research team into.  Definitely time to bring him back. 









						Neko (software) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> When you swipe hard, the bouncing island actually can knock the clock out of place, and then it snaps back. The physics is all very nicely done.



I can’t seem to do this. How the hell hard are you throwing apps up there?


----------



## DT

Cmaier said:


> When you swipe hard, the bouncing island actually can knock the clock out of place, and then it snaps back. The physics is all very nicely done.




Yeah, I love the little nuance that Apple puts into UI design.

OK, now I want one ... let's see, trade value on a mint 13 Pro Max ...


----------



## lizkat

Cmaier said:


> Been a long time since I’ve run Neko on the Solaris workstations in the tiny research computer closet they shoved my graduate research team into. Definitely time to bring him back.





Y'all just re-triggered my love for Maneki-Neko kitties...


​​​


----------



## Alli

Pumbaa said:


> Time to get a Dynamic Island iPhone?
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1570863225234923520/



I saw that on Twitter. That feature alone is almost enough to upgrade.


----------



## Citysnaps

More thoughts on my iPhone 14 PM after having it for a couple of days...

Coming from an 12 Pro I do notice the extra weight and size (roughly a 1/2" taller and a 1/4" wider). Something I feel every time I pick it up, but expect I'll get used to it.  Yesterday I bought a silicon case to provide more grip when the phone's in my shirt pocket - don't want it sliding out when I pick stuff up or tie my shoes.

I've further decluttered my lock screen to just time (in a better font - wish there were more options, though) and date at the top.  Wasn't feeling the value previously having extra stuff on the display.  Tried AOD again...still like it better disabled.

Overall the phone feels zippier. 

Haven't had a chance yet to go out for the purpose of making real photos - the better camera being the motivation to purchase the phone. But I did go out early this morning and took a neighborhood snap while it was still dark to see how it would work in low light - attached below.

Battery life seems to be decent.  Over a 24 hour period of regular use from fully charged it's now at 75%. With my 12 Pro I would have had to recharge it yesterday evening.


----------



## lizkat

Citysnaps said:


> Overall the phone feels zippier.




Heh,  I got the "oh noes"...  don't start!


----------



## DT

What does everyone do for purchasing?  Apple direct?

Do you get the carrier "specific" through Apple, or the "Connect to any carrier later" option?


Here's what I'm looking to do:

Phone 1
Paid off 11 Pro in mint condition, 64GB, silver to be swapped for a 14 Pro Max (128GB / purple).  Apple trade of $300, $799 difference for the replacement device.

Phone 2
Paid off 11, decent condition though one visible scratch on the display, swapping for a 14 (also purple ..), trade is low, condition is questionable, will likely not even trade


Verizon appears to have a killer trade option, $700 (for the 11 Pro), but that's only for a 36 month/0% contract, a CS rep (and what I'm reading) seem to indicate you can pay off the device anytime, like the first month, but it's at retail, i.e., your trade becomes nothing[?]

We been informed it's a good time to have some business expenses, so looking to pay outright.

Oh wanted to add:

I've always when buying from Apple used their payment options and chose my carrier, I've addressed the payment consideration above, but for the carrier, it's my understanding that simply pre-registers the device, and that there's no actual difference in the device (i.e., it's not "locked" to a carrier or anything).


----------



## Citysnaps

DT said:


> What does everyone do for purchasing? Apple direct?




That's what I did. And picked up at a nearby Apple store.  My iPhone 12 Pro trade was valued at $430.  A box from Apple will be coming today for mailing it back.

When ordering I chose "Connect to any carrier later," though I have AT&T.  When it came to setting the phone up I had no issue specifying AT&T - that was smooth and fast - it just worked.


----------



## lizkat

DT said:


> What does everyone do for purchasing? Apple direct?
> 
> Do you get the carrier "specific" through Apple, or the "Connect to any carrier later" option?




I never trade in, always pay up front and go Apple direct carrier specific, usually also as an Apple refurb deal.

Once I did order new direct from AT&T when switching from Verizon.  Never had a problem with any iPhone transaction except with a 4S i got direct from Apple that had a defective but not DOA radio...

Apple was great on shipping a replacement instantly, I mean the very _moment_ we concluded tests from a parking lot in town where I had to drive to get a signal to work on the problem with the Apple engineer. They said yeah don't worry we'll ship a box for return of the bad one later.   New one was on my porch next afternoon!  In the boondocks!​
Now w/ T-mobile, keeping an eye on their deals which may not apply, since I like my basic $45 plan for seniors and their deals would involve a plan upgrade.  I'm not actively looking to upgrade right now but my XR is not 5G capable,  so it's officially a little long in the tooth.  Anyway in this terrain any phone is WiFi calling only...

I almost went for a new 13 and may opt for that direct when they turn up in Apple refurb shelves.


----------



## DT

It's funny, I've done this for over a decade, I just haven't recently taken a moment, and reconsidered how I buy phones, and this year is a little different wanting to burn some business bucks.


----------



## Pumbaa

Got my Series 8. Yay!

Too bad the amusement park season here is practically over, though…


----------



## lizkat

DT said:


> It's funny, I've done this for over a decade, I just haven't recently taken a moment, and reconsidered how I buy phones, and this year is a little different wanting to burn some business bucks.




Stick with what has worked for you in the past with phones and just go buy the biz a nice desktop and a couple of monitors.   That should raise the heat some, ya think?   (or ya don't want to give up fancy coffee?)


----------



## DT

OK, went direct Apple, no carrier, paid up front   I'll determine whether I want to deal with the trade or not when the time comes.








Daughter gets an upgrade from an 11, arrives tomorrow (she'll be excited), kind of staying with the same form factor, 6.1, all the new 14 goodies of course.  Wife is going Pro to Pro Max, decided she'd dig on a larger phone, originally went smaller, but with her new Watch being cellular, she won't even carry it as much for things like running.  She reads a ton at night too, 99% on her phone, so the larger size will be super nice for that.  They're both also getting a storage update, since the base on both was 64GB, and it's now 128GB.

Interesting the differences in the two purple colors.


----------



## fischersd

I've always just bought it outright.  The carriers here in Canada pushed back on Apple, so we never got the iPhone upgrade program up here.
I understand Apple's now contracted a company called PayBright to offer 0% financing deals on iPhones, Macs and iPads...so may look into that whenever I'm tempted to upgrade.
Hopefully there's a nice M2 Mac Mini (in BLACK dammit!) in October.  One that supports HDMI 2.1 so it's HTPC worthy.


----------



## DT

The Mini definitely needs some love!  I'm kind of surprised it hasn't at least had an update to an M2.


----------



## Cmaier

DT said:


> The Mini definitely needs some love!  I'm kind of surprised it hasn't at least had an update to an M2.



Not ready to announce M2 pro (and max) yet, I guess.


----------



## lizkat

Joe said:


> Yeah, I'm keeping my 13 Pro Max. It is perfectly fine for my needs.  I'm not gonna pay for a smaller notch or Always On Display.




Ya know, i was just reading some other thread (about that Fast Company hack) and the link to the Engadget piece about it was atop an earlier piece about the iPhone 14, with some photos and a capricious title that caught my eye: 

*The iPhone 14 Pro ditches the notch for a giant hole in the screen**.  *

Hah!  Not thinking to upgrade this year so hadn't really looked the 14 over.  I stared at those photos for a minute and then picked up my XR for a look and honestly that "dynamic island" is a whole lot more noticeable to me than the notch.  I don't really care what various apps might stick in that space, it's just way more noticeable as a diminution of screen space because of the tiny bit of real estate that is left above the new island. Makes me laugh to remember all the hyped whines about the notch. 

It wouldn't keep me from getting a phone with the island later on,  but it is funny how the notch has become invisible to me now after a few years with the XR.


----------



## DT

The wife's iPhone 14 Pro Max arrived yesterday 

As always, the setup was so simple, bring the devices together, confirm a few things, new eSim setup ("Use this number?"  Yes ... 5 minutes later, existing phone sim offline, new phone running with existing number), accounts/apps/data all transferred, setup Face ID, Apple Pay.  Done in about 20-25 minutes.

Pretty stunning in the new purple color (especially the tinted SS bands).  Got her a thin Spigen case (that nicely shows off the colors) and some FM screen protectors (been using these for years, terrific products).  Holy smokes, quick word about the latter:  they've got a new installation system/alignment frame, that transfers the protector in one process.  It was so clear and bubble free I didn't even think it worked.  And with the 14 Pro, it covers the entire front, i.e., no cutout for the notch.

The phone is fast, the display is amazing, the new Dynamic Island is just stellar execution, between the surrounding display being "live" and usable and the 14 Pro pushing the display area towards the edges a little more, it makes my 13 Pro Max seem noticeably smaller.

Haven't experimented with the camera too much, just some photos sitting in the bedroom last night, wow, the physical camera/lens components are clearly larger.  We're excited to try to bike and/or running video with the new stabilization system. 

Very cool, very nice update from an 11 Pro.


----------

