# Stealing The Election 101



## Huntn

*Alternate Title: *How the GOP Broke Bad and Abandoned the Oathes They Swore To Uphold, Serving The Corrupt Don of Their Party.

Republicans, I want to know how can you live with this? Are you still proud to be a Republican?
In reversal, GOP officials in key Michigan county certify ballot count after striking a compromise with Democrats​https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...741372-28f6-11eb-8fa2-06e7cbb145c0_story.html
_Trump supporters had urged Michigan’s majority-Republican state legislature to try to appoint its own electors if the state canvassing board, split evenly between Democrats and Republicans, failed to certify the vote before the electoral college meets in December.
“If the state board follows suit, the Republican state legislator will select the electors. Huge win for @realDonaldTrump,” Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis tweeted Tuesday night after the initial Wayne County deadlock._


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## Chew Toy McCoy

I feel the longer Trump keeps this up the less likely he would win reelection in 2024 if he decides to run.  All somebody would have to do is point out how many people died, how many people lost their job, how many people lost their housing, and how many businesses went under in the months he did and said nothing other than *he* was the biggest suffering victim at that time.


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## Huntn

Do you remember when politicians swore on the Bible to uphold our Constitution and actually meant it?  Ladies and gentlemen those days are over as I present to you the Grand Old and Corrupt Party 2016. Think about this, the Republican party has elected enough crooks with distain for the Constitution to almost overthrow the Nation. They have already blocked a justified impeachment and multiple investigations.

And  have you ever wondered why it is important who is appointing judges to the bench? Because for every honest judge, a secret partisan zealot can be dug up, and then when the crooks go to court, they’ll have backup from the bench. Just think of all these Trump lawsuit based on zero evidence were admitted and argued as events minus evidence. Would it really matter at that point?

Because as far as the Republican Party is concerned Democracy is dead in the USA, a system that can’t sustain their political agenda. Donny said it out loud, _ease of voting means Republicans lose_. The Head Conman may be stupid, but he’s an expert at cheating. Believe him and since 2016, a vote for the GOP is a vote to put a nail in the coffin of our Republic/Democracy.

And depending on how successful they are today, our democratic system  is at some level of jeopardy at the hands of the Republican Party. First it was voter suppression using a variety of schemes, spreading voter disinformation. Then it was hypocritically changing rules so only they could place crony judges to the High Court. And now they have turned to disenfranchising entire cities, by wholesale throwing out votes for entire areas, just because they can, if we let them. Read about Wayne County, Michigan, and believe it! This is the first step towards turning the US into Russia’s Annex West.

What I mean by this is a country where laws are just window dressing to give the illusion of a democracy with order, where  corruption is rampant, and really those laws have become vehicles for twisting any adverse situation to disenfranchise and dismiss hostile voters and maintain power.

Remember Russia used to be the GOP’s Enemy Number 1 until they were assimilated by Thump’s minions. Now, you don’t hear a peep about Russia from them. This is no coincidence.

At this point, the only thing that will matter to them, is when they or their fellow henchmen actually start losing their seats, their grasp on power which incidentally started in 2018 during the midterms.

Expect them to scream and shout at the sky about voter fraud, and course they will continue to pull every trick taught to them by Master to try to steal their seats back. A warning to stay vigilant and pay attention. Thank goodness election commissions are bipartisan. Can you imagine if the party in control of a State had exclusive access to the voting infastructure?  If it was the GOP, and you’re not, you’d be fucked six ways to Sunday and I’ll argue even as a minion, you’ll be fucked when your civil rights go bye bye.


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## Mark

i think there is still a huge story just waiting to be pieced together about the ideological strategy of linking:

*R party platform + white nationalist agenda +  Russia + National Rifle Association*

i don't mean this in the context of the 2016 election.

i don't think that it was a trump specific aberration to use russian influence. he has been just the real estate developer waiting to build Trump Moscow.

i think it is clear that there is a more broadly based ideological alignment between all of the above pieces.

the result will be:

- the R party will continue to use foreign money and power to exert domestic influence. they have said repeatedly that there is nothing wrong in it.

- continued racist dogwhistles -  but this time without trump to blame - coming from people like McCarthy & Scalise & Moscow Mitch making increasingly clearer and strident calls for Amerika for White Amerikans

- more and more attempts to go back to Jim Crow segregationist policies (don't say It can't happen here- remember that the newly appointed Three-Name-Supreme refused to say if Brown vs. Board of Eduction was correctly decided or not)

i think that recent good, factual narrative looks at modern current Russian religio-political society give an accurate compass direction the R party will use.

they don't see Russia as as failed state - they see it as a society that has * god + white people in control,  adding in USAmerican guns*

America's evangelicals will love it !


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## Huntn

niji said:


> i think there is still a huge story just waiting to be pieced together about the ideological strategy of linking:
> 
> *R party platform + white nationalist agenda +  Russia + National Rifle Association*
> 
> i don't mean this in the context of the 2016 election.
> 
> i don't think that it was a trump specific aberration to use russian influence. he has been just the real estate developer waiting to build Trump Moscow.
> 
> i think it is clear that there is a more broadly based ideological alignment between all of the above pieces.
> 
> the result will be:
> 
> - the R party will continue to use foreign money and power to exert domestic influence. they have said repeatedly that there is nothing wrong in it.
> 
> - continued racist dogwhistles -  but this time without trump to blame - coming from people like McCarthy & Scalise & Moscow Mitch making increasingly clearer and strident calls for Amerika for White Amerikans
> 
> - more and more attempts to go back to Jim Crow segregationist policies (don't say It can't happen here- remember that the newly appointed Three-Name-Supreme refused to say if Brown vs. Board of Eduction was correctly decided or not)
> 
> i think that recent good, factual narrative looks at modern current Russian religio-political society give an accurate compass direction the R party will use.
> 
> they don't see Russia as as failed state - they see it as a society that has * god + white people in control,  adding in USAmerican guns*
> 
> America's evangelicals will love it !



As I recall a documented case of an Russia foreign intelligence officer infiltrating the NRA.   And it’s too kind to say a choice to disenfranchise groups of voters not voting for you is just pragmatic. It’s racist, illegal, un-patriotic, and killing democracy and the Constitution, a document they swore to protect and defend. So they are oath breakers before the God they tell you they fear, but that’s  just another sham, a con, to fool their suckers, isn't it?

Of note, the suckers are not much better as they cheer, while rationalizing every malfeasance, every slimy deed they support, and many tell you they are God fearing Christians who can’t seem to get that they just happened to fall in love with Beelzebub. We can pity them after their Political Party of choice has been neutered and is no longer threatening to dismantle our Republic as we know it,


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## SuperMatt

If Jesus came to earth today, it would be a repeat of 2000 years ago. Evangelicals would be the Pharisees 2.0, crucifying him. They’d attack him for being an Arab, bleeding-heart liberal, communist. Just read the gospels and see if evangelicals bear ANY resemblance to the ideals Jesus put forward within.


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## fooferdoggie

I listened to one of trumps lawyers argue that all votes in swing states should be thrown out and the elction given to trump. do we need more proof?


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## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1329867025263554560/


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## lizkat

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I feel the longer Trump keeps this up the less likely he would win reelection in 2024 if he decides to run.  All somebody would have to do is point out how many people died, how many people lost their job, how many people lost their housing, and how many businesses went under in the months he did and said nothing other than *he* was the biggest suffering victim at that time.





This little remark quoted below has been circulating around assorted social media circles from around November 6 and 7th, 2020... but it seems ever more pertinent the longer Trump and the GOP carry on the unconscionable balk at launching the formal transition period of an American president-elect.

"Tonight I finally understand why in many companies, when a manager fires an employee, HR or security escorts the terminated employee out of the building immediately."​
When an outgoing president does not observe norms of an outgoing administration, such as refraining from changes in policy or staffing assignments during a "transition" period,  one begins to think more about some legislation to replace mere tradition that might be in the people's interest.

As for lame duck sessions of Congress, and lame duck agency maneuvers,  I don't know what to think.  These days the gridlock is pretty substantial yet still there can be mischief made if some crisis should occur,  or when one is actually ongoing, which happens to be the case with at least covid-19 right now.  Treasury chief Mnuchin's request to the Federal Reserve to "return unused portions" of a previous allocation by congress for purposes related to the ongoing covid recovery does come to mind.  

I know the whole process including distribution of power is different in countries with a prime minister and parliamentary systems, but sometimes lately one can appreciate the swiftness with which such elections produce a more immediate change of government than we in the US experience...at least in 2020!


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## lizkat

Good piece in the Philadelphia Inquirer about the Pennsylvania election breakouts of mailed-in and in-person ballots, by party preference for one or the other method, overall for the state, and by county.   Apologies if it's paywalled... some papers give a number of free reads and some don't.  I put a few salient quotes.









						Joe Biden won 3 of every 4 mail ballots in Pennsylvania. Trump won 2 of 3 votes cast in person. What does that mean for the future?
					

Seventy-five percent of Pennsylvania mail-in ballots went to Biden. Two-thirds of in-person votes went to Trump. Insiders in both parties say the results could reshape campaigns and elections to come.




					www.inquirer.com
				






> Despite Trump’s baseless claims of fraud, the state GOP and Trump’s own campaign encouraged voting by mail. State Republicans are considering whether and how to better utilize mail voting in future elections.
> 
> “Republicans were caught napping with mail-in ballots,” said former state GOP chair Bob Gleason.






> *The partisan divide was so strong that it in some ways created parallel elections.*
> 
> There was *the in-person vote*, with more than 4.1 million votes cast for Biden or Trump at polling places on Election Day. Trump won the majority of those ballots in every county except deep-blue Philadelphia, the most Democratic of the 67 counties. In all, he captured two-thirds of these in-person votes.
> 
> But then there were *the mail ballots,* with which nearly 2.6 million Pennsylvanians cast votes for Biden or Trump. Biden’s campaign specifically set out to capture the mail vote and ultimately won it in 63 counties, with Trump winning only in four very small, heavily Republican counties. And Biden’s margin was notably larger — roughly three-quarters of all mail ballots — and that helped contribute to his overall victory.






> This chart shows how the in-person and mail vote was split between Biden and Trump statewide in Pennsylvania, where Trump won 66% of the in-person votes cast on Election Day but Biden won 77% of the mail ballots.









Here's how Philadelphia turned out or mailed in their votes (the county is coterminous with the city).






Here's a snapshot  of some of the rest of the counties.   Really like that charting format.


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## SuperMatt

Trump won handily among people too dumb to protect themselves from a pandemic. As if the GOP didn’t already have enough of a problem with shrinking demographics.... The best way to prevent another Trump is to greatly improve education. Uneducated people who believe conspiracy theories over science, facts, and evidence LOVE a conspiracy theorist like Trump.


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## Yoused

For your amusement,

*Far-right attorney L. Lin Wood, who represents right-wing accused murderer Kyle Rittenhouse and President Donald Trump, threatened on Saturday to sit out the two runoff elections in Georgia that will decide control of the U.S. Senate.*​
I think this is a Republiopathic strategery we can all support.


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## lizkat

The two-county selective recount Trump is paying for in Wisconsin appears to be raising ire of election supervisors...  because Trump campaign observers are being obstreperous in some cases and disruptive in others, possibly intending to slow the process and cause it to be thrown into a new round of lawsuits.









						Wisconsin officials: Trump observers obstructing recount
					

MILWAUKEE (AP) — Election officials in Wisconsin’s largest county accused observers for President Donald Trump on Saturday of seeking to obstruct a recount of the presidential results, in some instances by objecting to every ballot tabulators pulled to count...




					apnews.com
				






> Tim Posnanski, a county election commissioner, told his fellow commissioners there appeared to be two Trump representatives at some tables where tabulators were counting ballots, violating rules that call for one observer from each campaign per table. Posnanski said some Trump representatives seemed to be posing as independents.
> 
> At one recount table, a Trump observer objected to every ballot that tabulators pulled from a bag simply because they were folded, election officials told the panel.
> 
> Posnanski called it “prima facie evidence of bad faith by the Trump campaign.” He added later: “I want to know what is going on and why there continues to be obstruction.”


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## Mark

@lizkat

thanks for the link to the Pennsylvania election analysis of mail-in vs. in-person, by party and county.

the results show that biden won 3 out of every 4 of mail-in ballots in the state.
the article also mentions that trump may have soured his followers, for at least for the next few elections, on mail-in voting.

it strikes me that the above may be applicable for many other states as well.

that means that to reproduce in other states the remarkable result that Stacey Abrams achieved in Georgia, the future is mail-in ballots for the D party.

unrelated to the above is a quote from the Fintan O'Toole article you gave us the link for.



> The election has shattered the Democratic illusion that demography is destiny. A far-right nativism can appeal to many voters (including those of Hispanic and African-American ethnicity) who were assumed to be part of an emerging left-of-center consensus.


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## Huntn

lizkat said:


> The two-county selective recount Trump is paying for in Wisconsin appears to be raising ire of election supervisors...  because Trump campaign observers are being obstreperous in some cases and disruptive in others, possibly intending to slow the process and cause it to be thrown into a new round of lawsuits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wisconsin officials: Trump observers obstructing recount
> 
> 
> MILWAUKEE (AP) — Election officials in Wisconsin’s largest county accused observers for President Donald Trump on Saturday of seeking to obstruct a recount of the presidential results, in some instances by objecting to every ballot tabulators pulled to count...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apnews.com






niji said:


> @lizkat
> 
> thanks for the link to the Pennsylvania election analysis of mail-in vs. in-person, by party and county.
> 
> the results show that biden won 3 outs of every 4 of mail-in ballots in the state.
> the article also mentions that trump may have soured his followers, for at least for the next few elections, on mail-in voting.
> 
> it strikes me that the above may be applicable for many other states as well.
> 
> that means that to reproduce in other states the remarkable result that Stacey Abrams achieved in Georgia, the future is mail-in ballots for the D party.
> 
> unrelate to the above is a quote from the Fintan O'Toole article you gave us the link for.



Donald J Trump has brought his toilet to baptize as many as he can with his own special brand of Trump E. Coli.


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## lizkat

niji said:


> the article also mentions that trump may have soured his followers, for at least for the next few elections, on mail-in voting.




Thanks for mentioning that...  it has struck me as so typical of Trump's self-absorption.   Certainly there are and were red-leaning states and Republican party officials within them who realized that extending absentee voting options during the coronavirus epidemic was above all a sensible thing to consider.  But getting GOP-led legislatures to act upon it within time frames for the 2020 general election  in November became extremely difficult once Trump seized upon and began braying on Twitter that making voting simpler would mean more Democrats would vote.   Can't have that, eh?!    Trump was trying to shift public focus:  from making sure people could vote, to spreading the idea that honest Republicans vote in person and lying Democrats vote by mail...

The unfortunate thing for all of us, and so of course also for Republican candidates and their supporters:   no matter if more Republicans might also have voted by mail than ever would have turned out in person to do so in 2020 --if they had all had the opportunity and encouragement to do so!--    Trump's allegations served his secondary (or perhaps primary) purpose in casting doubt ahead of time about the integrity of US elections.   So he could cast himself as having overcome fraudulent efforts on the part of his enemies, had he won,  or else he could do as he has been doing in event of a loss:  fall back on saying "I told you so" regarding his false allegations that improving access to vote-by-mail translates to fraud... and that only Dems commit fraud.   

 Now the Republican Party is stuck with an uphill effort in red-leaning states to improve their own chances to raise voter turnout by making vote-by-mail a regularized option for more than citizens who are disabled or will be out of town or country on Election Day.     Trump will be long gone and they'll be struggling with that project for decades.

And regardless of political affiliation, we'll all be struggling to regard our USA elections -- the vote-counting of which is decentralized, demonstrably well supervised and largely free of significant errors, never mind fraud-- as having integrity, despite built-in requirements and options for audits and recounts.  

No winners at all on that score, thanks to a monumentally selfish loser, Donald Trump.   Another footnote in his dismal official record.


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## SuperMatt

We need to stay vigilant. We need to punish those who are supporting this attempted coup. Click the tweet for the whole thread from this Yale history professor.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1326319545427107840/


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## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> We need to stay vigilant. We need to punish those who are supporting this attempted coup. Click the tweet for the whole thread from this Yale history professor.



And make no mistake, it is absolutely an attempted coup.


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## lizkat

Alli said:


> And make no mistake, it is absolutely an attempted coup.





It strikes me as less an attempted coup than a sideshow for Trump's die-hard supporters, an attempt by him and by the GOP to maintain a polarized electorate in the run-up to a critical pair of Senate seat runoff elections in January. 

So far seems to me Biden is playing it with a good ear to avoid overreaction.   He's going ahead with his vetting of prospective Cabinet members to extent he can,  and obtaining what he can in terms of briefings from former officials in those agencies,  plus (possibly) some off-record more official current info...  "there are ways"... and some of them might even be countenanced by current Republican officials.

Not sure why it's necessary for senior Republican leadership to play Trump now like he's half-God, half-toddler, but also not sure it's just a calculus based in sheer politics.  There could be a fair bit the public does not yet know about how Trump and his circles of advisors and congressional overseers have actually governed during the past four years.

As for us out here:  no need (yet) to play into Trump's desire to have massive demonstrations against him rise up all over metro areas in the US,  with inevitable provocations to violence then possibly enabling his desire to declare a state of emergency and suspend a lot of the rights that currently remain in hand to defeat the staging of a soft coup under guise of court actions.    The courts are not inclined to go along.   It remains to be seen if the high court would play the game as Trump has figured.  I see nothing to indicate that it would operate as a rubber stamp, starting with perfectly human resentment of such an assumption.   Those recent appointments by Trump have all more than just "read" the constitution.   There's less leeway in its texts for a "coup" than the Don imagines.

What Trump is trying to do now is so far past the idea of Americans consenting to their own governance that it makes him look not only pathetic but more ignorant than most of us observers may have imagined.   On the other hand, it's entirely possible Trump is now mostly consumed about saving his ass and that of his family and certain enablers from legal troubles.  T'is the season of expected pardons.   As to his own,  well, a dramatic chapter about that could yet be in the offing, who knows.   But none of that changes outcome of this election.  Biden will get sworn in on Jan 20, whether as #46 or #47 depending on the usefulness of an interim Prez Pence to Donald Trump.

Graham has overstepped the law in suggesting whole rafts of votes could just be thrown out to effectively install Trump as the winner of the 2020 election (and he should be at least censured if not charged with election interference in Georgia).   At the very least he has outraged county and precinct level election workers all around the USA.  That counts for something in terms of upward grass roots pressure on state lawmakers to keep their noses out of the upcoming electoral college vote.  The legislature has no part in that unless a popular vote-count for President is literally tied, which is not the case in any state.

McConnell has led the GOP's more typically needle-threading way though the daylight between factions of the Republican base with his wordsmithed statements about a timely inauguration and peaceful transfer of power.   I don't doubt for a moment that he means it, despite his clear avoidance of taking a stance on "who won" for as long as possible.    Again, he doesn't care who lands in the oval office as long as he can maintain even a razor-thin margin in the Senate and so his majority leadership.   In the end it's not going to be good optics that he didn't step up to tell Trump the GSA administrator needed to launch the transition.  He's forgetting he might need Biden to help tamp down what McConnell sees as a threat by the progressive wing of the Dems in the House.   Every day the delay of transition continues,  the good will dwindles from what it was in the past peer and at least minimally collegial relationships of Biden and McConnell.

Timothy Snyder's right to point out concerns for both Dems and Republicans in that series of tweets.  But again, I don't think an appropriate response to even a soft coup at the moment is massive demonstrations.

Trump hasn't even managed dictatorship 101's Rule One (despite his efforts to decry media as "fake news"):  a would-be dictator must first effectively squash the free press.  But in the USA,  even conservative leaning mainstream outlets assume Biden has won and are on to talking about policy expectations, what should get baked into the market as Biden's Cabinet picks emerge and so forth.    When media outlets openly and properly portray Kayleigh McEnany as a discredited propaganda artist not unlike "Baghdad Bob", well...

Start worrying when Trump brings a successful "prior restraint" order on the Fourth Estate's ongoing demonstration that the way to assert a right to publish is...  well,  to publish.


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## Mark

i think that trump/steven miller/steve bannon/bill bar/moscow mitch have written the preliminary first draft edition of *Dictatorship for Dummies *which is still now only in pre-publication, while it is being refined by the Republican Party and the Supreme Court.


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## lizkat

niji said:


> i think that trump/steven miller/steve bannon/bill bar/moscow mitch have written the preliminary first draft edition of *Dictatorship for Dummies *which is still now only in pre-publication, while it is being refined by the Republican Party and the Supreme Court.




Let's not forget though that the courts have not caved in....   it was a conservative judge with credentials of membership in the Federalist society who threw that Pennsylvania case out with a 37-page excoriation of Trump's lawyers for even having brought such a case into a courtroom in the United States of America.

Trump has no path forward that overturns enough states' outcomes to flip the presidential election to himself.

The GOP may or may not realize now that Trump is more threat than advantage to their own prospects even from the sidelines if he manages to hold a following after he leaves office.   McConnell sees it, not sure about McCarthy, but their respective charges in Senate and House respectively so far seem frozen in party-over-country mode. 

However:   It remains to be seen how they and various new members of the 117th Congress will react when private citizen Trump --as is likely unless he's immediately embroiled in serious criminal court proceedings--  starts acting like he's running a shadow government from his smartphone accounts and via any mainstream media appearances he nails down.

Trump has hinted at feeling personally insecure because of his perceived enemies sometimes,  but he may not realize that it's not folks like mayors of blue state cities who are the people likely to turn on him after he exits the White House, in the event  he acts like he's still in charge of a superpower.   In the case of behavior like that, it's people whose prospects in his own party he has damaged,  or may damage that he should probably worry about.

A friend once said that the biggest mistake Trump as president will ever have made was simply standing on Day One of his presidency in front of the CIA's memorial wall, the one w/ 117 stars representing unnamed agents who have died in the line of duty,  and rambling on and on and on to the assembled CIA staffers and their managers about how great was his campaign and how unfair it was that people thought more people had showed up at Obama's inauguration than at his own the day before.

Yeah, he did that.   NIce photo op, eh?   "My CIA guys"...    "my generals"....   my NASA / USDA / FDA ...

Fricken guy's lucky some relocated USDA data collector hasn't already mowed over Trump's toes sometime at a preview of the tractor pull in a county fair appearance on the Fourth of July...




Now I don't know and didn't ask where my friend may have been going with his remark that that appearance will have ended up as Trump's worst mistake, nor did he elaborate,  but I know that Trump has  pulled similarly self-centered and thoughtless stunts on staff of other agencies and departments for his entire presidency.  I do not envy for a second whoever it is who will land on Trump's security details going forward if Trump persists in trying to use the USA government and its agencies as props for his self-aggrandizement in his post-presidential life.   There are limits to the public's patience, but we are easily distracted.  There are limits to government's patience also and may prove more task focused.  They have resources should give anyone pause, even someone like Donald Trump.  We might end up in court v Trump sometime, why not, --contractors who have had to sue Trump are a dime a thousand--  but that's only where Trump's hijacked party might START in order to impress upon him their own powers if he starts getting in their way and they can't just wave him off.   Bill Barr runs a department has a lot of power.   Bill Barr won't be there come the end of January.

I'd think it very unlikely Trump could manage to keep a consistent "host" position in a show dedicated to keeping him a center of public attention.   He's a spoiled dabbler at best now.   He's most comfortable sitting in a White House private quarters bedroom taking pot shots on a protected account on Twitter.    As a real person in real life, he has been maintaining a pretty erratic schedule for a long time now,  with an entire cabinet and West Wing worth of aides to take up the slack and provide distraction.   I'd not be surprised if Trump fades away playing golf with guys who have remained personally loyal to him at least to his face, and not be surprised if he just dies in bed the way a surprising number of actual and wannabe dictators do.  It's to the country's advantage if that's exactly what does happen.   Hard to make a martyr of a guy who just strokes out on one too many hamberders or a round too many of golf in the hot sun some afternoon.


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## Zoidberg

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I feel the longer Trump keeps this up the less likely he would win reelection in 2024 if he decides to run.  All somebody would have to do is point out how many people died, how many people lost their job, how many people lost their housing, and how many businesses went under in the months he did and said nothing other than *he* was the biggest suffering victim at that time.



All that was true, and was said three weeks ago, and he still got more votes than any other candidate in history, except for Biden. They don't care: he's their god, he's their leader, anyone else is the enemy.

It's a cult, nothing can be said that will make them change their minds. They won't recant now, they have invested too much, it's easier to double down, as long as there's enough people that they don't feel they are the only ones (and this is ensured via FOX or OANN, who provide a sense of community).


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## lizkat

despondentdiver said:


> All that was true, and was said three weeks ago, and he still got more votes than any other candidate in history, except for Biden. They don't care: he's their god, he's their leader, anyone else is the enemy.
> 
> It's a cult, nothing can be said that will make them change their minds. They won't recant now, they have invested too much, it's easier to double down, as long as there's enough people that they don't feel they are the only ones (and this is ensured via FOX or OANN, who provide a sense of community).




Nonetheless Trump's cult is not running the show in the USA....

Trump's current advisors (equivalent of folks who would be Trump's media managers or producers in his private life if he decided to try to retain a public following) immediately told him that Sydney Powell had to go after she crossed a line that the Republican Party honchos could not tolerate: it was one thing for Powell to spout already debunked conspiracy theories but quite another when she waded into edges of a pending runoff election in Georgia in a damaging way.

Powell  accused Georgia's governor and secretary of state (both Republican officials) of taking payoffs to affect Nov 3 election results and that necessity of a Warnock-Loeffler runoff was fraudulently created,  suggesting the race was actually won outright by Trump's preferred GOP candidate, Doug Collins.​​That was a bridge too far for the GOP, as the last thing they need is doubt in Georgia's Trump-voters' heads, about maybe could still write in Collins' name in the January runoff, etc...  and so split the vote and hand the seat to Warnock.​
Surely we don't think Trump himself sat up on the edge of his bed and said_ oh my God that woman is going to cost us the Senate in Georgia, we must fire her at once._ No. Trump doesn't think about himself as a Republican. He is The Don.

If he even heard what Powell falsely alleged about Doug Collins having won  over Loeffler for the GOP side of the ticket in November, he was probably blissed out,   no matter that what Powell said was a flat lie.   Plus he loathes Kemp and Raffensperger for validating Georgia's electoral votes going into the Biden-Harris column.  Was probably thrilled that Sydney Powell falsely accused them of election-related chicanery.

So it fell to Trump's advisors to get down to firing Sydney Powell, despite whatever Trump's cult may have felt about her, or about things past and future in the state of Georgia.    And it would be Trump's producers or PR managers having to disavow highly inappropriate statements by Trump himself,  or by his hangers-on or guests in a post-presidential media circus hosted by Donald Trump.

This is why Trump will become the Republican Party's perennial thorn in side after he has left office, if he doesn't STFU and let the party deal as it sees fit with the Biden administration and all its own future campaign efforts.     He has never had the slightest allegiance to the party he hijacked to land in the Oval Office. 

Will the Trump cult flourish anyway after Trump leaves office?   Maybe, but they become once again the equivalent of a Rush Limbaugh show audience.   That is different to having been a vocal component of a political base courted by the GOP when Trump was nominal leader of their party.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

SuperMatt said:


> If Jesus came to earth today, it would be a repeat of 2000 years ago. Evangelicals would be the Pharisees 2.0, crucifying him. They’d attack him for being an Arab, bleeding-heart liberal, communist. Just read the gospels and see if evangelicals bear ANY resemblance to the ideals Jesus put forward within.



Evangelicals should just covert to Judaism because they both don’t follow the New Testament.  It’s all about the Old Testament God of retribution. Jesus who?


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## lizkat

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Evangelicals should just covert to Judaism because they both don’t follow the New Testament.  It’s all about the Old Testament God of retribution. Jesus who?




Jesus the lefty radical...     the Dems should unostentatiously reclaim him since the right-leaning evangelicals seem to have left the dude in the dust.    Guy could come in handy packing food boxes for all those thousands of Texans waiting in line for Trump's USDA to ante up better in the food pantry department.   Imagine opening one of those boxes and finding a letter from Jesus in there instead of the one Trump insisted they send out over his name and campaign-style reminder of how great he is (which letter had to be removed since it's a violation of the Hatch Act)


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

lizkat said:


> Jesus the lefty radical...     the Dems should unostentatiously reclaim him since the right-leaning evangelicals seem to have left the dude in the dust.    Guy could come in handy packing food boxes for all those thousands of Texans waiting in line for Trump's USDA to ante up better in the food pantry department.   Imagine opening one of those boxes and finding a letter from Jesus in there instead of the one Trump insisted they send out over his name and campaign-style reminder of how great he is (which letter had to be removed since it's a violation of the Hatch Act)



Reclaimed!



			Supreme Deities Jesus Dressup!


----------



## lizkat

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Reclaimed!
> 
> 
> 
> Supreme Deities Jesus Dressup!




The Hindu one..   and the mermaid!   Wow!


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

lizkat said:


> The Hindu one..   and the mermaid!   Wow!



The evangelicals know nothing of this Jesus, but I'm a big fan.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

I know they were probably going for Elvis with the glasses and hair but I think I just made Jim Jones dress up Jesus here.


----------



## Scepticalscribe

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I know they were probably going for Elvis with the glasses and hair but I think I just made Jim Jones dress up Jesus here.
> 
> View attachment 1533




Boxers, please; not briefs.


----------



## fooferdoggie

Man trump has hit a new low when rush even hates what your doing.
Limbaugh criticizes Trump’s lawyers: They promised “blockbuster” evidence — then “nothing happened”​








						Limbaugh: Trump lawyers promised "bombshells" — "nothing happened"
					

If "you announce massive bombshells, then you better have some bombshells,” Rush Limbaugh points out




					www.salon.com


----------



## Huntn

fooferdoggie said:


> Man trump has hit a new low when rush even hates what your doing.
> Limbaugh criticizes Trump’s lawyers: They promised “blockbuster” evidence — then “nothing happened”​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Limbaugh: Trump lawyers promised "bombshells" — "nothing happened"
> 
> 
> If "you announce massive bombshells, then you better have some bombshells,” Rush Limbaugh points out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.salon.com



There are now calls for disbarment and rightfully so.

On the drive home I listened to PE Biden’s Thanksgiving message of unity and healing, and fighting COVID and I’m still not used to hearing anything coherent from POTUS, that it still makes me catch my breath.

Then I heard excerpts from the OPOS* at his _Cry Fo Me I Got Plenty of Lies Left To Tell _Rally and his wannabe Big Turd personal lawyer (he’s just a little turd next to OPOS) and it’s the most disgusting performance I have ever seen in an elected official, but not from what I imagine from a defanged mob boss.

*Outgoing POS


----------



## Scepticalscribe

Huntn said:


> There are now calls for disbarment and rightfully so.
> 
> On the drive home I listened to PE Biden’s Thanksgiving message of unity and healing, and fighting COVID and I’m still not used to hearing anything coherent from POTUS, that it still makes me catch my breath.
> 
> Then I heard excerpts from the OPOS* at his _Cry Fo Me I Got Plenty of Lies Left To Tell _Rally and his wannabe Big Turd personal lawyer (he’s just a little turd next to OPOS) and it’s the most disgusting performance I have ever seen in an elected official, but not from what I imagine from a defanged mob boss.
> 
> *Outgoing POS




Just watched a clip from Mr Biden's remarks, in the Guardian and on Twitter: 

Very impressive, and exactly what people have wanted to hear, needed to hear, and been yearning to hear.

Sane, sensible, empathic, sympathy, finding the right words and the right tone, offering decent (and, I don't doubt, competent, leadership, free from coarseness, cruelty and corruption), leadership, a framework of language and a direction for the future. 

I won't say - how did it come to this? That what should be a base line, becomes something to be immensely grateful for, and actually proud of.


----------



## Huntn

Scepticalscribe said:


> Just watched a clip from Mr Biden's remarks, in the Guardian and on Twitter:
> 
> Very impressive, and exactly what people have wanted to hear, needed to hear, and been yearning to hear.
> 
> Sane, sensible, empathic, sympathy, finding the right words and the right tone, offering decent (and, I don't doubt, competent, leadership, free from coarseness, cruelty and corruption), leadership, a framework of language and a direction for the future.
> 
> I won't say - how did it come to this? That what should be a base line, becomes something to be immensely grateful for, and actually proud of.



Much depends on the number of infected, that remain infected and I’m referencing TDS not COVID-19.


----------



## JayMysteri0

In case anyone is still looking into voter fraud
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1334274670636503040/

Oh wait, they didn't mean THAT kind of voter fraud.  They mean the kind involving only ONE party in ONE race.

They meant the kind they have no proof of.

My bad.  Carry on.


----------



## Huntn

I agree, Georgian Republicans you should not vote in the Senate runoff election, lol.
I was listening to some yahoo, Attorney Lyn Wood at a rally of sorts, on a MSNBC video clip  suggesting that voters in Georgia not vote in the runoff election unless some change is made to “fix the corruption, make the election secure!” Holy crap, he was actually telling Republicans not to vote as a means of pressuring the two Republicans and Governor  in the runoffs to do something, what exactly I’m not sure. As is he had the balls to say _Georgians are not stupid!_ while arguing they not vote, which would hand these seats to the Democrats and as Senate majority. No, not stupid. 

Sidney Powells Suggests Georgia Voters Skip Senate Runoff Elections​








						Sidney Powells Suggests Georgia Voters Skip Senate Runoff Elections • Liberty Hub
					

The controversial suggestion has many Republicans fearing for the worst.




					libertyhub.com


----------



## Thomas Veil

They’re trying everything. _Everything._

A White House liaison to the Justice Department kept trying to find some sort of “proof” of voter fraud until they eventually told her to get out—and stay out.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/03/politics/heidi-stirrup-justice-department/index.html

This is almost the equivalent of planting a mole in the organization.


----------



## Thomas Veil

More...


> Stirrup had also extended job offers to political allies for positions at some of the highest levels of the Justice Department without consulting any senior department officials or the White House counsel’s office and also attempted to interfere in the hiring process for career staffers, a violation of the government’s human resources policies, one of the people said.



What the...?


----------



## Yoused

Sidney alleges frod with the counting machines

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1334868397721591808/

except, uh,


----------



## Alli

Yoused said:


> Sidney alleges frod with the counting machines
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1334868397721591808/
> 
> except, uh,



So glad 45 hires only the best people.


----------



## Huntn

Trump is starting to wonder about his corrosive Midus Touch (a marketing slogan in the US), and the power of his putrid breath to wilt resistance to his malevolence. 
Trump calls Georgia governor to pressure him for help overturning Biden’s win in the state​


			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-kemp-call-georgia/2020/12/05/fd8d677c-3721-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html
		





one step from...

​

_President Trump called Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) on Saturday morning to urge him to persuade the state legislature to overturn President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the state and asked the governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures, the latest brazen effort by the president to interfere in the 2020 election._

Just because he felt strongly about it and said so...


----------



## fooferdoggie

of course in usual trump stupidity it is not up to the governor.


----------



## SuperMatt

fooferdoggie said:


> of course in usual trump stupidity it is not up to the governor.



I don’t think he is that stupid. He knows he lost, but as long as he pretends to be fighting, he can keep fleecing his sheep for campaign contributions. He’s raised hundreds of millions in “campaign” funds AFTER the election ended. PT Barnum was right; there is a sucker born every minute. [note - PT Barnum may have never said that, but it’s often attributed to him]


----------



## Yoused

__





						Trump Demands Names of 27 Congressional Republicans Who Acknowledged Biden’s Victory | Daily Sound & Fury
					






					dailysoundandfury.com
				




(they are listed in the wapo article, but “*fake news! can't be reading that.*”)


----------



## fooferdoggie

SuperMatt said:


> I don’t think he is that stupid. He knows he lost, but as long as he pretends to be fighting, he can keep fleecing his sheep for campaign contributions. He’s raised hundreds of millions in “campaign” funds AFTER the election ended. PT Barnum was right; there is a sucker born every minute. [note - PT Barnum may have never said that, but it’s often attributed to him]



yep its a huge money grab.
and the gullible keep giving him money. he plays like a violin


----------



## JayMysteri0

When you know your former cheerleaders have decided you are no longer a champ, but chum to be thrown out to sea
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335418490250031105/


----------



## JayMysteri0

For 'F' sake, how can it NOT be considered they are intentionally trying to look bad at this point?



> Incredible Wow Did Not See This Coming
> 
> 
> Melissa Carone’s updo is truly a site to behold. Though some have called it a “messy bun,” I find the follicle-based feat of engineering far too intentional and precise, not to mention thoroughly not bun-like, to dub it as such. The fraying slopes and angles, held together by an undisclosed...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theslot.jezebel.com





> Melissa Carone’s updo is truly a site to behold. Though some have called it a “messy bun,” I find the follicle-based feat of engineering far too intentional and precise, not to mention thoroughly not bun-like, to dub it as such. The fraying slopes and angles, held together by an undisclosed number of bobby pins and hair clips rather than a single hair elastic—if Frank Gehry isn’t taking notes, he should probably consider it. I just imagine her standing before her boudoir the day she testified before Michigan’s House Oversight Committee, thinking “I have done this on purpose” as she threaded the final fastener in its place. The head upon which Carone’s updo sits might have no points, but the hair itself? She’s an icon, she’s a legend, and she is the moment.
> 
> But back to Carone. You’ll never guess what HuffPost found out about Rudy Giuliani’s star witness, who claimed to have witnessed a buncha voter fraud while working as an IT contractor for Dominion Voting Systems on election night in Detroit. According to senior justice reporter Ryan J. Reilly, Carone had until recently been on probation after harassing her fiancé’s ex by sending her sexual videos and then accusing the woman of stealing them. She was initially charged with first-degree obscenity and using a computer to commit a crime under the name Melissa Wright, though her charges were reduced to disorderly conduct and a year of probation after she struck a plea deal.


----------



## thekev

JayMysteri0 said:


> When you know your former cheerleaders have decided you are no longer a champ, but chum to be thrown out to sea
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335418490250031105/




You need to add a joke to that about a woman walking into Barr and ordering a drink.


----------



## JayMysteri0

thekev said:


> You need to add a joke to that about a woman walking into Barr and ordering a drink.



They covered that already
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335420041915994112/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335419131475206144/


----------



## JayMysteri0

It also helps if your '_crack_'  legal team doesn't engage in behavior that can seem like fraud as well
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335423543711051776/

For frik sake, was "hires only the best people" an inside joke with 45 from the beginning?


----------



## thekev

JayMysteri0 said:


> It also helps if your '_crack_'  legal team doesn't engage in behavior that can seem like fraud as well
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335423543711051776/
> 
> For frik sake, was "hires only the best people" an inside joke with 45 from the beginning?




Powell really should be facing possible disbarrment after some of these antics. 

Spelling is intentional.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Whether he means to or not, leave it to Rudy to be the only part of this criminal enterprise to tell the truth
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335451483958030337/


----------



## Huntn

SuperMatt said:


> I don’t think he is that stupid. He knows he lost, but as long as he pretends to be fighting, he can keep fleecing his sheep for campaign contributions. He’s raised hundreds of millions in “campaign” funds AFTER the election ended. PT Barnum was right; there is a sucker born every minute. [note - PT Barnum may have never said that, but it’s often attributed to him]



Any bets on what happens to this money, like it finds its way into the The Trump Organization?


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> Whether he means to or not, leave it to Rudy to be the only part of this criminal enterprise to tell the truth
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335451483958030337/



_We don’t need courts..._ now that it’s evident the courts are not as corrupt as they had planned. Next he or some other loser will consider making the jump to just needing bullets.


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> It also helps if your '_crack_'  legal team doesn't engage in behavior that can seem like fraud as well
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335423543711051776/
> 
> For frik sake, was "hires only the best people" an inside joke with 45 from the beginning?



Poor old Sydney, she wants badly to be a player, too badly, apparently without the right stuff. Maybe she’s shooting for _Better call Saul _standard, but at least he was smart enough to alter documents so no one noticed at least court side.

Did she have a sister who outshined her, and she responded by swindling people?


----------



## JayMysteri0

Huntn said:


> Any bets on what happens to this money, like it finds its way into the The Trump Organization?



There is no need to bet.  It's reported widely the money is his.  45 is getting the payoff for the scam he began 4 years ago.

The money is his free & clear, and SOME are happily continuing to give.  You better believe the threats of running again will carry on, as long as the money goes to a special fund that doesn't force him to direct any money to any such campaign.  There's a reason 45 didn't kick in any of his own supposed billions, when his campaign burned thru the donated money.  This is only about making money, and 45 stumbled upon the greatest grift in U.S. history & it's suckers.


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> There is no need to bet.  It's reported widely the money is his.  45 is getting the payoff for the scam he began 4 years ago.
> 
> The money is his free & clear, and SOME are happily continuing to give.  You better believe the threats of running again will carry on, as long as the money goes to a special fund that doesn't force him to direct any money to any such campaign.  There's a reason 45 didn't kick in any of his own supposed billions, when his campaign burned thru the donated money.  This is only about making money, and 45 stumbled upon the greatest grift in U.S. history & it's suckers.



So Trump  found his newest scam that started 4 years ago is the biggest, bestest, and most profitable. He’s discovered what mega church pastors have known for decades, and he’s freaking bigger than a single church, of course that is probsbly in the works too.  But isn’t  that completely against campaign finance law?

​


----------



## JayMysteri0

Huntn said:


> So Trump  found his newest scam that started 4 years ago is the biggest, bestest, and most profitable. He’s discovered what mega church pastors have known for decades, and he’s freaking bigger than a single church, of course that is probsbly in the works too.  But isn’t  that completely against campaign finance law?
> 
> View attachment 1706​



The way law works involves literal interpretation.  45 made sure intentionally during his relection not to heavily tie his money.  He used others money to run for reelection, when that ran dry, he leaned on rallies.  No law broken.  This whole scam involving voter fraud was very clearly laid out from the outset as a fund for him, that the RNC got a cut of, and the actual efforts to look for voter fraud got a measly percentage.  Which has then been used by Tooty G, to get paid playing a worse version of a lawyer than the one in 'My Cousin Vinny'.  It's grift, but it's all perfectly legal grift, that his suckers base happily pay into, and you see more trying to get some of that gravy before January.


----------



## JayMysteri0

The real issue?  Because while grifting is seen as illegal, done by pros it isn't, just amoral. 

This is should be illegal.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335308862136709121/

Otherwise incumbents would NEVER lose, they would just get termed out.  Until that is they work out a scheme to avoid term limits.


----------



## SuperMatt

Huntn said:


> So Trump  found his newest scam that started 4 years ago is the biggest, bestest, and most profitable. He’s discovered what mega church pastors have known for decades, and he’s freaking bigger than a single church, of course that is probsbly in the works too.  But isn’t  that completely against campaign finance law?
> 
> View attachment 1706​



The Supreme Court took campaign finance law, wiped their collective behinds with it, then tossed it into a dumpster and lit it up.


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> _We don’t need courts..._ now that it’s evident the courts are not as corrupt as they had planned. Next he or some other loser will consider making the jump to just needing bullets.




Yeah.... this level of Trump's "lawyers" playing to Trump's die-hard base in order to hold them in thrall

(not really for the Georgia elections, just for the not yet unveiled next reality-TV production starring The Don...  I mean do we still think Trump gives a fig for the Republican Party or its control of the US Senate?)​
is fast running out of room in our actual and still quite functional legal and judicial systems. 

This is the danger of mistaking what sphere one is operating in.   It's one thing for followers to do that, quite another for a leader to encourage followers to make such mistakes.   Followers who cross the line will encounter a real justice system (with mixed results at this point, let's face it).   But leaders who incite crossing lines in an egregious manner still do pretty routinely end up facing charges like incitement to violence or conspiracy to commit specified crimes (among them fraud, witness intimidation, and yes interference with elections).

Giuliani seems to have got beyond his pay grade on spotting where the lines are any more.  As for Donald Trump, it's been clear he never saw a rule or law he thought applied to him in the end, certainly not after the Senate acquitted him on  the impeachment charges last winter.  That doesn't mean the USA's judiciary or its legal system has collapsed. 

What are these guys thinking?  "Even if" they mean it all as street theatre until some media outlet can be persuaded there's a pot of gold awaiting whoever hosts the world's next Donald Trump TV show,  that doesn't negate the reality of their behavior now, nor does it erase how that behavior is viewed under our rule of law and in our courts.

Remarkable that 40-odd dismissed sets of antics in court have not so far translated in the Trump crowd's books to "Wake Up This Show is Over."  Can they really be thinking this Supreme Court is going to be the ace up sleeve to make bullets unnecessary in Trump's effort to remain in office?  That's truly insane. 

Which begs the question of how far they expect Trump's die-hard followers to go...  in reality. 

In reality I would expect there has been some discussion in the DoJ about this.  And maybe between some state governors and the DoJ. 

Be that as it may, I wish I could say I'm shocked that the Republican Party leadership is not making ongoing and coherent assertions these days about rule of law and peaceful transitions and putting Trump on public notice that the GSA's authorization of transition monies means the government fully expects the Electoral College to confirm Biden as the winner on December 14th. 

But I'm not shocked because of how the likes of Ronna McDaniel, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy and Lindsey Graham have played it so far.  All this wordsmithing about counting "all legal" votes and countenancing without comment some close to disbarrable efforts of Trump lackey lawyers in state courts around the country...  wow.

If the Republicans are actually playing a "well let's wait and see" game for Electoral College votes,  they are either still such craven cowards in the face of a loud fringe of Trump cult members  as the core of their potential base of voters --even having long since realized that packing the courts is their only way to keep power in future-- or else they are just flatly complicit in expecting Trump to pull off a fraudulent overturn of the 2020 presidential election.

Interesting times to live in.  I've never seen a major party come this close to a moment where its behavior becomes seditious.  Only a couple dozen elected officials at the federal level now acknowledge Biden as President-Elect,  with the rest just keeping their counsel while the whole country (and the rest of the world) wonders what on earth the GOP can be thinking to burn itself down in this manner.


----------



## Scepticalscribe

SuperMatt said:


> I don’t think he is that stupid. He knows he lost, but as long as he pretends to be fighting, he can keep fleecing his sheep for campaign contributions. He’s raised hundreds of millions in “campaign” funds AFTER the election ended. PT Barnum was right; there is a sucker born every minute. [note - PT Barnum may have never said that, but it’s often attributed to him]






fooferdoggie said:


> yep its a huge money grab.
> and the gullible keep giving him money. he plays like a violin






JayMysteri0 said:


> There is no need to bet.  It's reported widely the money is his.  45 is getting the payoff for the scam he began 4 years ago.
> 
> The money is his free & clear, and SOME are happily continuing to give.  You better believe the threats of running again will carry on, as long as the money goes to a special fund that doesn't force him to direct any money to any such campaign.  There's a reason 45 didn't kick in any of his own supposed billions, when his campaign burned thru the donated money.  This is only about making money, and 45 stumbled upon the greatest grift in U.S. history & it's suckers.




Actually, while this is all very true - more than true, as this is a characteristic scam - I also think that some psychological stuff is in play, here, too.

Given that one of Mr Trump's favourite insults is "loser", (he reserves "nasty" for women who dare to cross him, or contradict him, or disagree with him), and given that he has never had to face up to, and deal with, let alone accept, the consequences of his defeats and losses - political, financial, legal - in the past, for he has been able (and been enabled) to warp the world into a shape reflecting his preferred reality, I think that at a deep, fundamental, visceral, level, he is constitutionally unable to face the fact of his defeat.

In his stunted and twisted little mind, he cannot be a "loser"; that label is reserved for people he despises and insults; therefore, the world must be re-made to ensure that he cannot be a "loser", and if that means trashing the democratic traditions and destroying the institutions and constitution of the US en route, so be it.  That is the price that he - a monstrous and malignant narcissist - is more wiling to pay.

The fact that much of - if not most of - the GOP is willing to facilitate and enable and encourage and support these grotesquely irresponsible actions of wanton and reckless constitutional arson is, of course, unutterly and unspeakably outrageous.




lizkat said:


> Yeah.... this level of Trump's "lawyers" playing to Trump's die-hard base in order to hold them in thrall
> 
> (not really for the Georgia elections, just for the not yet unveiled next reality-TV production starring The Don...  I mean do we still think Trump gives a fig for the Republican Party or its control of the US Senate?)​
> is fast running out of room in our actual and still quite functional legal and judicial systems.
> 
> This is the danger of mistaking what sphere one is operating in.   It's one thing for followers to do that, quite another for a leader to encourage followers to make such mistakes.   Followers who cross the line will encounter a real justice system (with mixed results at this point, let's face it).   But leaders who incite crossing lines in an egregious manner still do pretty routinely end up facing charges like incitement to violence or conspiracy to commit specified crimes (among them fraud, witness intimidation, and yes interference with elections).
> 
> Giuliani seems to have got beyond his pay grade on spotting where the lines are any more.  As for Donald Trump, it's been clear he never saw a rule or law he thought applied to him in the end, certainly not after the Senate acquitted him on  the impeachment charges last winter.  That doesn't mean the USA's judiciary or its legal system has collapsed.
> 
> What are these guys thinking?  "Even if" they mean it all as street theatre until some media outlet can be persuaded there's a pot of gold awaiting whoever hosts the world's next Donald Trump TV show,  that doesn't negate the reality of their behavior now, nor does it erase how that behavior is viewed under our rule of law and in our courts.
> 
> Remarkable that 40-odd dismissed sets of antics in court have not so far translated in the Trump crowd's books to "Wake Up This Show is Over."  Can they really be thinking this Supreme Court is going to be the ace up sleeve to make bullets unnecessary in Trump's effort to remain in office?  That's truly insane.
> 
> Which begs the question of how far they expect Trump's die-hard followers to go...  in reality.
> 
> In reality I would expect there has been some discussion in the DoJ about this.  And maybe between some state governors and the DoJ.
> 
> Be that as it may, I wish I could say I'm shocked that the Republican Party leadership is not making ongoing and coherent assertions these days about rule of law and peaceful transitions and putting Trump on public notice that the GSA's authorization of transition monies means the government fully expects the Electoral College to confirm Biden as the winner on December 14th.
> 
> But I'm not shocked because of how the likes of Ronna McDaniel, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy and Lindsey Graham have played it so far.  All this wordsmithing about counting "all legal" votes and countenancing without comment some close to disbarrable efforts of Trump lackey lawyers in state courts around the country...  wow.
> 
> If the Republicans are actually playing a "well let's wait and see" game for Electoral College votes,  they are either still such craven cowards in the face of a loud fringe of Trump cult members  as the core of their potential base of voters --even having long since realized that packing the courts is their only way to keep power in future-- or else they are just flatly complicit in expecting Trump to pull off a fraudulent overturn of the 2020 presidential election.
> 
> Interesting times to live in.  I've never seen a major party come this close to a moment where its behavior becomes seditious.  Only a couple dozen elected officials at the federal level now acknowledge Biden as President-Elect,  with the rest just keeping their counsel while the whole country (and the rest of the world) wonders what on earth the GOP can be thinking to burn itself down in this manner.




Terrific post.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335692896884957188/

_* I apologize, we opened the Plum wine, and I've been giggling at this for the last 5 minutes._


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> * I apologize, we opened the Plum wine, and I've been giggling at this for the last 5 minutes.




Pleased to advise that it's possible to have have lost it over that gig on a bottle of filtered tap water, jeez.


----------



## JayMysteri0

lizkat said:


> Pleased to advise that it's possible to have have lost it over that gig on a bottle of filtered tap water, jeez.



That look she's giving in the picture, when Tooty supposedly let it fly is friggin' priceless!  I can NEVER stop laughing.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Tooty G, the gift that just keeps on giving...
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335761974475382784/


----------



## JayMysteri0

So this is a 'thing' now?  

So when certain parties talk about dangerous individuals, ask yourself if they mean individuals such as this? 
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1335766901654491136/

Yeah, come to think I remember how up in arms the dems were in 2016.


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> Yeah, come to think I remember how up in arms the dems were in 2016.





Yeah I remember too...


----------



## Yoused

Ok, this is just fucking insane. I dare you to try to read the 27 page filing and struggle to make sense of it. It is a motion in a Pennsylvania court to nullify the election and declare ShitGibbon the winner. It makes references to _Harvey_ (Jimmy Stewart movie), _Bread and Circuses_ and _What Are Little Girls Made of?_ (classic Star Trek episodes) and rambles all the hell over creation, making spelling errors like "exzemption" and "consuderation". I got about six pages into it before closing the tab and reaching for the brandy.

I mean, seriously, why are these people not being cited for contempt?


----------



## JayMysteri0




----------



## lizkat

This is some messed up stuff going on in the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies:   *The Rs on the committee would not join a resolution identifying individuals to be inaugurated Jan 20.*

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336365893903847425/


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> There is no need to bet.  It's reported widely the money is his.  45 is getting the payoff for the scam he began 4 years ago.
> 
> The money is his free & clear, and SOME are happily continuing to give.  You better believe the threats of running again will carry on, as long as the money goes to a special fund that doesn't force him to direct any money to any such campaign.  There's a reason 45 didn't kick in any of his own supposed billions, when his campaign burned thru the donated money.  This is only about making money, and 45 stumbled upon the greatest grift in U.S. history & it's suckers.






SuperMatt said:


> The Supreme Court took campaign finance law, wiped their collective behinds with it, then tossed it into a dumpster and lit it up.




Isn’t this against campaign finance laws or was? Sounds like was.
Turns out Trump does not have the corruption lock he thought he had on SCOTUS. However note, Republicans continue to act as his enablers. They have no business in politics as they have failed to uphold their oaths of Office. They need a good political ass whoop’n, but won’t hold my breath for that.  



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-trump-pennsylvania-election-results/2020/12/08/4d39e16c-397d-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html


----------



## Huntn

lizkat said:


> This is some messed up stuff going on in the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies:   *The Rs on the committee would not join a resolution identifying individuals to be inaugurated Jan 20.*
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336365893903847425/



This is wholesale corruption at the Federal level brought to you by the GOPOSs.


----------



## lizkat

And this from an official Arizona GOP account... will soon be seditious conspiracy talk so they should maybe practice lawyering up.









						Arizona GOP Asks If Republicans Are Ready To Die For Trump’s Voter Fraud Crusade
					

“He is. Are you?” a tweet from the Arizona Republican Party’s official account  read, linking to a message in which a supporter of Trump’s voter fraud conspiracy theory said he is willing to give his life “for this fight.”




					www.forbes.com
				










From the Forbes piece, the second quote  was the "Rambo" tweet.



> “He is. Are you?” @AZGOP said in a tweet linking to a post by the organizer of pro-Trump “Stop the Steal” rallies that said: “I am willing to give my life for this fight.”
> 
> A follow-up tweet from the Arizona GOP quoted _Rambo_: “This is what we do, who we are: Live for nothing, or die for something.”


----------



## Huntn

Yoused said:


> Ok, this is just fucking insane. I dare you to try to read the 27 page filing and struggle to make sense of it. It is a motion in a Pennsylvania court to nullify the election and declare ShitGibbon the winner. It makes references to _Harvey_ (Jimmy Stewart movie), _Bread and Circuses_ and _What Are Little Girls Made of?_ (classic Star Trek episodes) and rambles all the hell over creation, making spelling errors like "exzemption" and "consuderation". I got about six pages into it before closing the tab and reaching for the brandy.
> 
> I mean, seriously, why are these people not being cited for contempt?



So TDS warps you perspective, soul, and competence turning you into jabbering idiots. Wait, I knew that before.   Remember the term The A Team? This brings meaning to concept of Team Trump, The T team.


----------



## Huntn

lizkat said:


> And this from an official Arizona GOP account... will soon be seditious conspiracy talk so they should maybe practice lawyering up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona GOP Asks If Republicans Are Ready To Die For Trump’s Voter Fraud Crusade
> 
> 
> “He is. Are you?” a tweet from the Arizona Republican Party’s official account  read, linking to a message in which a supporter of Trump’s voter fraud conspiracy theory said he is willing to give his life “for this fight.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1761
> 
> 
> From the Forbes piece, the second quote  was the "Rambo" tweet.



Holy shit, sedition time.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336442051995561985/


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336445686162706432/


----------



## Thomas Veil

I love the Supreme Court’s decision on Trump’s challenge.

No explanation. No statement of dissent. Just this. Here it is in full:



The only way it could have been a more humiliating defeat for Trump would be if the Supreme Court had simply said, “Are you kidding?!?”


----------



## JayMysteri0

Thomas Veil said:


> I love the Supreme Court’s decision on Trump’s challenge.
> 
> No explanation. No statement of dissent. Just this. Here it is in full:
> 
> View attachment 1769​The only way it could have been a more humiliating defeat for Trump would be if the Supreme Court had simply said, “Are you kidding?!?”



It's amazing that a guy who will show loyalty to no one above himself & his family, unless someone has something ( dirt on him or someone else ) or is of value to him, is surprised when others won't risk it for him.

45 has no real legal chance, and the justices aren't throwing away what integrity they have for 45.

The justices' are like, "I like presidents who actually win their elections.  I got my job sucker!"


----------



## JayMysteri0

And...
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336406049537056775/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336408252825948162/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336408755722989568/

 WTF?!!


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> And...




Yeah,  "and..."

Trump demonstrates once again his total lack of understanding of American politics and the federal judiciary.    There is still a huge difference between "originalist" or "conservative" judicial opinions and "I am a puppet judge / justice owned by fill-in-a-pol's-name."

Taking that retweeted tweet down was a good idea.  Putting it back up again amounts to Trump doubling down on Trump's central characteristic, the one that runs to "I can do anything I want." 

(Sure, and burn down the worth of having stuck conservative picks on the court by publicly and graphically implying that any of them are his personally owned puppets.  Way to go when needing a push across a fantasy goal line. I see Barrett writing "... but in this case..."  the same as any other jurist who just got disrespected by a politician with a case up before a court.)​
And as for other consequent reactions:  Biden's not naturally inclined to pack the high court but he is after all a politician obliged to consider the will of the people who brought a Dem White House to the 2021 landscape.   

Meanwhile Trump's rally in Georgia ostensibly for the GOP incumbent Senators was much more about himself and his fan base --and his uncertain future in politicized media coverage--  than about really helping the GOP on January 5th maintain McConnell's ability to stave off anything a Biden-Harris administration wants to do.  

Forty-three more days left...  for Trump to keep testing the patience of the party that brought him to the dance in 2016.


----------



## Huntn

lizkat said:


> Yeah,  "and..."
> 
> Trump demonstrates once again his total lack of understanding of American politics and the federal judiciary.    There is still a huge difference between "originalist" or "conservative" judicial opinions and "I am a puppet judge / justice owned by fill-in-a-pol's-name."
> 
> Taking that retweeted tweet down was a good idea.  Putting it back up again amounts to Trump doubling down on Trump's central characteristic, the one that runs to "I can do anything I want."
> 
> (Sure, and burn down the worth of having stuck conservative picks on the court by publicly and graphically implying that any of them are his personally owned puppets.  Way to go when needing a push across a fantasy goal line. I see Barrett writing "... but in this case..."  the same as any other jurist who just got disrespected by a politician with a case up before a court.)​
> And as for other consequent reactions:  Biden's not naturally inclined to pack the high court but he is after all a politician obliged to consider the will of the people who brought a Dem White House to the 2021 landscape.
> 
> Meanwhile Trump's rally in Georgia ostensibly for the GOP incumbent Senators was much more about himself and his fan base --and his uncertain future in politicized media coverage--  than about really helping the GOP on January 5th maintain McConnell's ability to stave off anything a Biden-Harris administration wants to do.
> 
> Forty-three more days left...  for Trump to keep testing the patience of the party that brought him to the dance in 2016.
> 
> View attachment 1772​



And 70 million people voted for this shit, the Head Shit.


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> And 70 million people voted for this shit, the Head Shit.




I had to struggle to rationalize the decision of Trump voters in 2016 without resorting to unvarnished insult (of Trump and of them)  far more colorful than that,  and certainly not as genteel as Hillary's "basket of deplorables."

Overall I still settle for calling the 2016 election itself "an anomaly not without some justification."  But yes now in 2020 there were even more Trump voters  in 2020, although they were farther into the popular minority, and their votes didn't land in the right places to gain an electoral votes majority...    but all I can say this time around sometimes reduces to pretty good facsimiles of longshoremen's language.

The real cost of whatever good some perceive Trump as having done for them personally is a million-fold outweighed by the harm he has done to those of us whom he disparages and neglects,  to the nation itself,  our allies and the USA's standing in the world at large. 

It's a mystery to me that so many went for Trump [again] in 2020 ... except that our educational system needs to teach critical thinking sooner and more often in a USA that now tolerates so much willful or feigned "ignorance"on the part of its elected officials and some of the mainstream media as well. 

Traditional media could have done a better job putting more of the cruel but unadvertised EOs on page one during the Trump era.   Hard to convert some of those into clickbait though, and Trump's twitter account usually proved irresistible.  And the sole aim of that account has been to divide us one against another, to further weaken the social fabric of the USA and leave him sole arbiter of the country's fate.

And then there's the Sinclair Broadcast Group... and Fox News itself.   it makes me furious that the Republicans rail against social media titans for a presumed blanket "censorship" of so-called conservative thought.

Sinclair operates 







> a total of 193 stations across the country in over 100 markets (covering 40% of American households), many of which are located in the South and Midwest, and is the largest owner of stations affiliated with Fox, ABC, and The CW.




Forty percent of US households, eh?

Trump's approval rating sits at 43.3% as of December 4, 2020.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Hmmmm...  

The thing with a guy as petty as 45, you can't help but think this maybe politically motivated

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336781425115336704/


----------



## fooferdoggie

of course it is revenge its what trumps best at. that and taking others money.


----------



## Huntn

lizkat said:


> I had to struggle to rationalize the decision of Trump voters in 2016 without resorting to unvarnished insult (of Trump and of them)  far more colorful than that,  and certainly not as genteel as Hillary's "basket of deplorables."
> 
> Overall I still settle for calling the 2016 election itself "an anomaly not without some justification."  But yes now in 2020 there were even more Trump voters  in 2020, although they were farther into the popular minority, and their votes didn't land in the right places to gain an electoral votes majority...    but all I can say this time around sometimes reduces to pretty good facsimiles of longshoremen's language.
> 
> The real cost of whatever good some perceive Trump as having done for them personally is a million-fold outweighed by the harm he has done to those of us whom he disparages and neglects,  to the nation itself,  our allies and the USA's standing in the world at large.
> 
> It's a mystery to me that so many went for Trump [again] in 2020 ... except that our educational system needs to teach critical thinking sooner and more often in a USA that now tolerates so much willful or feigned "ignorance"on the part of its elected officials and some of the mainstream media as well.
> 
> Traditional media could have done a better job putting more of the cruel but unadvertised EOs on page one during the Trump era.   Hard to convert some of those into clickbait though, and Trump's twitter account usually proved irresistible.  And the sole aim of that account has been to divide us one against another, to further weaken the social fabric of the USA and leave him sole arbiter of the country's fate.
> 
> And then there's the Sinclair Broadcast Group... and Fox News itself.   it makes me furious that the Republicans rail against social media titans for a presumed blanket "censorship" of so-called conservative thought.
> 
> Sinclair operates
> 
> Forty percent of US households, eh?
> 
> Trump's approval rating sits at 43.3% as of December 4, 2020.



I'm already thinking the human race is in deep shit as per a recent post, this business with Trump strikes me as icing on the cake. It seems to be some kind of a break with reality, _where what I want_ trumps everything else and _Fuck You too_, especially after they've been assimilated by a scheming POS portraying itself as a human being. If a human being, among the saddest I can think of. If he was not such a threat, I could still pity him.

 I know many of us keep thinking we are turning a corner, with Biden winning but the House lost seats, the GOP is still flagrant underminers of Democracy, everything they can get away with, petrified by their base, apparently a bunch of on the edge psychos* who have issues when their fantasies have been squashed at least for today, having fucked with the courts,  and have decided that emulating the Big POS by being little turds is their ticket to holding power, that is until the revolution. The _"are you ready to die for the cause"_ comments out of Az were noted.

*Maybe not all the GOP are psychos, but they voted for one, so what do we make of that?

Anyway, I'm leaning more towards us as being screwed while admitting I maybe on the pessimistic side. After all I think the human race is for lack of a more appropriate word- fucked too, so it all fits together nicely with my world view.


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> I'm already thinking the human race is in deep shit as per a recent post, this business with Trump strikes me as icing on the cake. It seems to be some kind of a break with reality, _where what I want_ trumps everything else and _Fuck You too_, especially after they've been assimilated by a scheming POS portraying itself as a human being. If a human being, among the saddest I can think of. If he was not such a threat, I could still pity him.
> 
> I know many of us keep thinking we are turning a corner, with Biden winning but the House lost seats, the GOP is still flagrant underminers of Democracy, everything they can get away with, petrified by their base, apparently a bunch of on the edge psychos* who have issues when their fantasies have been squashed at least for today, having fucked with the courts,  and have decided that emulating the Big POS by being little turds is their ticket to holding power, that is until the revolution. The _"are you ready to die for the cause"_ comments out of Az were noted.
> 
> *Maybe not all the GOP are psychos, but they voted for one, so what do we make of that?
> 
> Anyway, I'm leaning more towards us as being screwed while admitting I maybe on the pessimistic side. After all I think the human race is for lack of a more appropriate word- fucked too, so it all fits together nicely with my world view.




We do live in interesting times.  It's really hard though to sort out what gave Trump 70 million American votes in 2020.

 I'd almost prefer it was GOP party-line thinking that drew a lot of R votes at the top in 2020 (and so some possibly rather nostalgic thinking)  rather than a preference for Donald Trump per se.   I mean even around here in some deep red parts of this rural county one could hear "yeah he's nuts but at least he's a Republican".

There is not a lot of deep examination by these acquaintances of mine about what this admnistration has done to further repress the rights of workers, consumers and our rather taken-for-granted cleaned up air and water.   I get as far as "But some of his EOs make rule changes we're not gonna like down the road" and the response is "yeah but he's not threatening to lock us up for putting a tin can in the trash instead of that damn recycle box."

There's just a lot of "don't tread on me" running rampant these days, and some of that was expressed in the votes for Trump. 

Weird considering Trump is about as authoritarian as one can get without shredding what's left of the US Constitution.  He lives to tell us how to think about everything! 

 But the core of his support do apparently tend to be  "authoritarian followers" of various subcategories.   I've been reading more about them lately in that book by John Dean and Bob Altemeyer, _*Authoritarian Nightmare: Trump and His Followers.  *_It doesn't really help me understand how we are going to get them to help us combat our unsustainable march to the tune of 21st century capitalists up there in our 0.1% tier in the USA. I understand their populism but not their blindness to the fact that Trump ain't no populist.

The other book I've been re-reading is Adam Cohen's _*Supreme Inequality:  The Supreme Court's Fifty-Year Battle for a More Unjust America.   *_It was time to re-read that as soon as we saw Mitch McConnell deciding the courts are the Republicans' only long term salvation because the levees of gerrymandered legislative districts aren't gonna cut it forever.


----------



## Huntn

lizkat said:


> We do live in interesting times.  It's really hard though to sort out what gave Trump 70 million American votes in 2020.
> 
> I'd almost prefer it was GOP party-line thinking that drew a lot of R votes at the top in 2020 (and so some possibly rather nostalgic thinking)  rather than a preference for Donald Trump per se.   I mean even around here in some deep red parts of this rural county one could hear "yeah he's nuts but at least he's a Republican".
> 
> There is not a lot of deep examination by these acquaintances of mine about what this admnistration has done to further repress the rights of workers, consumers and our rather taken-for-granted cleaned up air and water.   I get as far as "But some of his EOs make rule changes we're not gonna like down the road" and the response is "yeah but he's not threatening to lock us up for putting a tin can in the trash instead of that damn recycle box."
> 
> There's just a lot of "don't tread on me" running rampant these days, and some of that was expressed in the votes for Trump.
> 
> Weird considering Trump is about as authoritarian as one can get without shredding what's left of the US Constitution.  He lives to tell us how to think about everything!
> 
> But the core of his support do apparently tend to be  "authoritarian followers" of various subcategories.   I've been reading more about them lately in that book by John Dean and Bob Altemeyer, _*Authoritarian Nightmare: Trump and His Followers.  *_It doesn't really help me understand how we are going to get them to help us combat our unsustainable march to the tune of 21st century capitalists up there in our 0.1% tier in the USA. I understand their populism but not their blindness to the fact that Trump ain't no populist.
> 
> The other book I've been re-reading is Adam Cohen's _*Supreme Inequality:  The Supreme Court's Fifty-Year Battle for a More Unjust America.   *_It was time to re-read that as soon as we saw Mitch McConnell deciding the courts are the Republicans' only long term salvation because the levees of gerrymandered legislative districts aren't gonna cut it forever.



Interesting how it all comes back to being conned, combined with prejudice and religion, ultimately scaled to the lowest denominator of STUPID.. It’s not good for the country, possibly disastrous and for the world, but just in time for severe global heat, so there’s that. /s


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> Interesting how it all comes back to being conned, combined with prejudice and religion, ultimately scaled to the lowest denominator of STUPID.. It’s not good for the country, possibly disastrous and for the world, but just in time for severe global heat, so there’s that. /s




If Biden doesn't have enough clout in the Senate in 2021, and can't get McConnell onto some same pages for legislation that's bipartisan and attractive to ordinary people who lean right or left,  then I'm gonna have to cut my expectations down to hoping that at least his communications to Americans will not be intentionally divisive.   I'd settle for that for awhile at least.  So tired of all the wedge-driving of the Trump era.   It colors everything from dawn to dusk in the public square nowadays.


----------



## thekev

lizkat said:


> If Biden doesn't have enough clout in the Senate in 2021, and can't get McConnell onto some same pages for legislation that's bipartisan and attractive to ordinary people who lean right or left,  then I'm gonna have to cut my expectations down to hoping that at least his communications to Americans will not be intentionally divisive.   I'd settle for that for awhile at least.  So tired of all the wedge-driving of the Trump era.   It colors everything from dawn to dusk in the public square nowadays.




McConnell doesn't appear to be in great health, so I doubt he will be in charge much longer. Let's just hope that Georgian Republican voters make good on their word to not show up for runoff elections. It's their right to vote if they want to, but that whole "earn your vote" nonsense brought me an enormous amount of amusement.


----------



## lizkat

thekev said:


> McConnell doesn't appear to be in great health, so I doubt he will be in charge much longer. Let's just hope that Georgian Republican voters make good on their word to not show up for runoff elections. It's their right to vote if they want to, but that whole "earn your vote" nonsense brought me an enormous amount of amusement.




I would not put anything past election officials in Georgia.  They're trying to suppress early voting in Cobb County for the runoff by just about halving the number of open polling stations during the EV timeframe.  That's a county that went very big for Biden, lots of Latinos and Blacks.   Same with two or three other counties that also went heavily for Biden.  State shrugs and says it's a staffing problem, all polling places will be open on Jan 5 or voters can send in absentee ballots...  in the general election,  Cobb County saw voters waiting on line ten or 12 hours.

Georgia is Georgia.  It's one of the states figured in the Voting Rights Act stipulations that the Roberts court stripped out regarding formerly require federal supervision of changes in voting laws. 

Georgia's disregard for voting rights of some citizens isn't the half of it really. Back in the heyday of a more liberal Supreme Court, one of the first so-called poverty-law victories was one that toppled a law in Georgia that had allowed the state to withhold some welfare benefits, specifically Aid to Families of Dependent Children,  *unless the mothers of those kids showed up in the fields to pick okra during the harvest season.  *The "choice" was up to the mamas..

And it's not just Georgia, of course.  Was thinking about that the other day while reading about the elections in Venezuela how people complained there about Maduro packing the vote in his favor by withholding food handouts unless people turned up and voted.    Here,  in South Carolina it worked the other way one year after a hurricane:  there was a primary  election coming up and the state saw fit to hand out cards for post-hurricane food benefits on Election Day... but of course the cards were not distributed at polling places.   Long lines at both so pretty much it was "eat or vote".


----------



## lizkat

Despite what Trump thinks,  this piece pretty much pegs the last gasp Texas suit as DOA..









						5 glaring problems with Texas' bid to overturn Biden's win at the Supreme Court
					

"This case is hopeless," said SCOTUSblog publisher Tom Goldstein, who argues frequently before the court.




					www.nbcnews.com
				




Begs the question of why so many GOP honchos at federal level are still playing stupid games.  Are they just treading water until after the electors all meet in their respective states, so they don't trigger Trump into doing even more stupid things in the meantime?    The chance of 37 Biden-pledged electors turning up faithless on that day and casting for Trump instead is approximately zero.


----------



## thekev

JayMysteri0 said:


> And...
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336406049537056775/
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336408252825948162/
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336408755722989568/
> 
> WTF?!!




Apparently that quote is real. I'll admit, I never expected a Pokemon reference from Trump.









						Remarks by President Trump Before Marine One Departure | The White House
					

South Lawn 9:55 A.M. EST THE PRESIDENT:  I just told them, "I've got to come over and see the fake news."  Let's go.  What do you have, John? Q    Mr. Pres




					www.whitehouse.gov


----------



## Huntn

thekev said:


> McConnell doesn't appear to be in great health, so I doubt he will be in charge much longer. Let's just hope that Georgian Republican voters make good on their word to not show up for runoff elections. It's their right to vote if they want to, but that whole "earn your vote" nonsense brought me an enormous amount of amusement.



If you want to go Christian on their asses, Trump and his enablers should  in Hell, for a couple of decades before consideration of being put on heavenly probation.


----------



## fooferdoggie

thekev said:


> McConnell doesn't appear to be in great health, so I doubt he will be in charge much longer. Let's just hope that Georgian Republican voters make good on their word to not show up for runoff elections. It's their right to vote if they want to, but that whole "earn your vote" nonsense brought me an enormous amount of amusement.



You cant kill the devil if he dies the GOP will just resurrect him. Wait he kinda looks like he was resurrected.


----------



## Huntn

As stated on MSNBC today a State lawsuit against a other state about how they conduct their election has no legal basis. In my thinking, it might have validity if it can be shown a State corrupted and falsified their election results in a National election. Now as far as theses POSs in 17 States have decide, no need for facts, very Trump like, our objections/unhappiness and numbers should be enough EVEN IF IT’S NOT SUPPORTED by any legal precedence.

This is today’s _how low can we go_  GOP 

17 States Join Texas In Election Lawsuit Against Pennsylvania​
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/17-states-join-texas-in-election-lawsuit-against-pennsylvania/ar-BB1bONxy


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336405646825099264/

I still wonder if I am misunderstanding the intent of that image.

I keep taking it like it's the gaze from the "Eye of Sauron".

I don't think that's a good thing.  Am I wrong there?  That's like admitting Barrett's supposed to be some corrupting influence out to destroy us all.

Because that's admitting an awful lot of truth...


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1336405646825099264/
> 
> I still wonder if I am misunderstanding the intent of that image.
> 
> I keep taking it like it's the gaze from the "Eye of Sauron".
> 
> I don't think that's a good thing.  Am I wrong there?  That's like admitting Barrett's supposed to be some corrupting influence out to destroy us all.
> 
> Because that's admitting an awful lot of truth...



Without knowing intent, that image could be taken a multitude of ways. I assume if an agent of Trump posted it and Trump approves of it, someone is elevating Barrett as a beacon of truth that will tip the balance saving  him, while it strikes me as a malevolent image, not purity.


----------



## lizkat

Trump is still trying to get the nation's panties in enough of a bunch to declare martial law?

It's nice that Biden voters have pretty much sat back with popcorn and not helped Trump get there.


----------



## Alli

thekev said:


> McConnell doesn't appear to be in great health, so I doubt he will be in charge much longer. Let's just hope that Georgian Republican voters make good on their word to not show up for runoff elections. It's their right to vote if they want to, but that whole "earn your vote" nonsense brought me an enormous amount of amusement.



Every day I check to see if Mitch is still on our side of the ground. I look forward to his departure since his state has a D governor, and will unquestionably be replaced by a D. I’m not rooting for Mitch.


----------



## Eraserhead

lizkat said:


> Despite what Trump thinks,  this piece pretty much pegs the last gasp Texas suit as DOA..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 glaring problems with Texas' bid to overturn Biden's win at the Supreme Court
> 
> 
> "This case is hopeless," said SCOTUSblog publisher Tom Goldstein, who argues frequently before the court.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Begs the question of why so many GOP honchos at federal level are still playing stupid games.  Are they just treading water until after the electors all meet in their respective states, so they don't trigger Trump into doing even more stupid things in the meantime?    The chance of 37 Biden-pledged electors turning up faithless on that day and casting for Trump instead is approximately zero.



Look on the face of it the best GOP strategy post election was to accept the loss, accept the potential loss of the Georgia run-off and move on with life and hope you could make a comeback in 2022 with politics as usual. The coup stuff was only likely to work if Biden won 271 electoral college votes or it was very close in the closest state. Besides the ”coup” energises the Dem base and probably de-energises the Republican base because whats the point in voting if its not legitimate.

The only reason not to do that is because too many people in the Republican party want a pardon, and they need it because they’ve committed big crimes not small ones.

Take the senator from a southern state who is alleged to be gay, the Democratic Party can’t use it against them, so the only risk is a primary and they aren’t up for one of those for 5 years - and besides mostly incumbents win those. Plus at that point they’d be in their 70s.


----------



## lizkat

Alli said:


> Every day I check to see if Mitch is still on our side of the ground. I look forward to his departure since his state has a D governor, and will unquestionably be replaced by a D. I’m not rooting for Mitch.




I keep getting these flashbacks to the mid-1990s when Saudi Arabian royals were hauling in best possible advice from USA medicos to keep a declining and almost completely incapacitated King Fahd alive longer --breathing, one member of the royals was said to have stipulated--  despite the fact that Abdullah had already been acting as regent, so that competing family members could finish trying to cement their uneasy alliances amongst their clan factions and so settle on prospective further succession plans.

Mitch on the wane and looking at Dem Governor Andy Beshear, yeah.  How did that even happen, eh Mitch?   Stuff happens when you're so busy filling court slots w/ ideologues that you forget to give your old nemesis but compatriot Republican and erstwhile governor Matt Bevin some advice on how far is too far to push Kentuckians in hard economic times.   Beshear was paying attention.


----------



## Eraserhead

lizkat said:


> I keep getting these flashbacks to the mid-1990s when Saudi Arabian royals were hauling in best possible advice from USA medicos to keep a declining and almost completely incapacitated King Fahd alive longer --breathing, one member of the royals was said to have stipulated--  despite the fact that Abdullah had already been acting as regent, so that competing family members could finish trying to cement their uneasy alliances amongst their clan factions and so settle on prospective further succession plans.
> 
> Mitch on the wane and looking at Dem Governor Andy Beshear, yeah.  How did that even happen, eh Mitch?   Stuff happens when you're so busy filling court slots w/ ideologues that you forget to give your old nemesis but compatriot Republican and erstwhile governor Matt Bevin some advice on how far is too far to push Kentuckians in hard economic times.   Beshear was paying attention.




Mitch isn’t as bright as he thinks he is.


----------



## lizkat

Eraserhead said:


> Mitch isn’t as bright as he thinks he is.




Happens to all who run a fiefdom and surround themselves with loyalists. 

I just hope Biden isn't in the process of setting himself up that way. 

Of course I voted for Biden-Harris but today was the first day I thought to take my Warren "Persist! But First, Coffee" mug out of the cupboard since the primaries...   not that I expected her to get a cabinet slot, and I'm not unhappy with names like Gary Gensler etc. being floated for financial posts but grabbing the Warren mug this morning was a little sign to myself that I have some concerns now as I see some of Biden's picks.  It was a conscious choice, not "OK grab a coffee mug..."

Vilsack to head up Agriculture woke me out of general enjoyment of just knowing I was watching a Dem pick agency heads.  I understand the politics of that post but I still expected him to pick...  well, just not Vilsack I guess.  Someone and maybe a person of color who thinks about food insecurity and "food deserts" and nutrition and public health problems related to obesity and picks up the phone and talks to HHS about it but also ramps up pressure on the private sector to be more responsive to American food-related health issues.    The choice of Vilsack just screams _I know I can get this guy confirmed again and he's a good guy and he's not Sonny Perdue but he's middle road no-surprises and everything's gonna be fine at_ Agribiz Agriculture, _no problem._

Sure we can live with that.  Vilasack's not gonna be trying to ditch food stamps and Biden's not gonna be trying to wish food box recipients well with special letters from the White House.  I'm just not convinced Vilsack's up to speed or especially fascinated by small specialty agriculture and etc., and that K street's lobbies for megacorporate ag regards Vilsack same as Biden does, _OK no worries_. Does that mean poultry processors will have to live with increased line speeds from the Trump era that are killing and maiming them? Inquiring progressives will be asking.

In theory I don't mind if progressives aren't leading the charge in agencies,  so long as they have a hand in the deputy slots and a genuine input to policymaking.  Right now I feel like that remains to be seen because of some pretty retro picks by Biden for top spots.   There are thousands of slots to fill so imma shut up now and see, but...


----------



## SuperMatt

Alli said:


> Every day I check to see if Mitch is still on our side of the ground. I look forward to his departure since his state has a D governor, and will unquestionably be replaced by a D. I’m not rooting for Mitch.



His lifetime goal has been to make the world such a bad place that when he dies and goes to hell, it will seem nicer in comparison.


----------



## Huntn

Eraserhead said:


> Look on the face of it the best GOP strategy post election was to accept the loss, accept the potential loss of the Georgia run-off and move on with life and hope you could make a comeback in 2022 with politics as usual. The coup stuff was only likely to work if Biden won 271 electoral college votes or it was very close in the closest state. Besides the ”coup” energises the Dem base and probably de-energises the Republican base because whats the point in voting if its not legitimate.
> 
> The only reason not to do that is because too many people in the Republican party want a pardon, and they need it because they’ve committed big crimes not small ones.
> 
> Take the senator from a southern state who is alleged to be gay, the Democratic Party can’t use it against them, so the only risk is a primary and they aren’t up for one of those for 5 years - and besides mostly incumbents win those. Plus at that point they’d be in their 70s.



Good to see you here! 

Addressing the group, keep in mind that while we pat ourselves on the back about how good US courts were in rebuffing Trump lunacy, 50+ lawsuits without merit*,  keep in mind that this  depends on corruption , surrounds himself with trusted corrupt henchmen and the only reason even with the GOPOS going to bat for him across the country, his _win-in-court_ scheme only failed because his corruption was not far reaching enough and his malignant ego underestimated his personal ability to sway the system towards his personal benefit.

* I can hope for but will not hold my breath for multiple disbarments. The rule of law was broken by a score of lawyers on behalf of The Big Shit.

This kind of a person is a dire threat to a any honest democracy. His touch, breath, poison is caustic to Democracy. This is why he adores tough guy dictators, he wants to be one badly. And at this point, not to harp like I am , I’ll maintain that 70m votes says we will continue to be in dire trouble for the foreseeable future.


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> I’ll maintain that 70m votes says we will continue to be in dire trouble for the foreseeable future.




You're likely correct about that although I maintain that a big chunk of that 70 million votes represents people who held nose, voted for Trump (even again, yeah) because they are *Republican-leaners on policy matters* like taxes and deregulation.

I know it's hard to get one's mind around the idea of tolerating the behavior and motivations of this crew in the White House for the sake of policy expectations, but some voters do just see tax cuts and dereg as the linchpin of their political frameworks.​​And...some voters see  religious / social issues as determining their votes,  even though they may not approve in the least of Trump as he presents personally.​​Personally there's no way I can compartmentalize to quite that extent. Trump was always going to be a bridge too far for me, in so many ways.  But I can almost understand it.​
We've probably all voted for a presidential candidate in the past at least once or twice where their expected policies were preferential to those of the opposing party's candidate,  even if looking at the candidates themselves we might even have felt like voting for the other guy.

Back in 1988 I was very conflicted before the election because I had a lot of respect for Bush 41 as a person.  But I preferred the policies of the Democrats to what looked like could be an extension of Reagan policies by Bush, although "maybe not", I told myself.  And I didn't much care for Dukakis personally; I thought he was wrapped way too tight,  although I admired his progressive track record in Massachusetts.

Then Bush throws a wrench into the picture with that Willie Horton ad, which made me loathe him and his campaign staff and his party.   Then Dukakis answers an outrageous question in debate about a hypothetical rape and murder of *his wife*: would he favor the death penalty, and Dukakis answered it with about as much emotional engagement as if he'd merely been asked what he thought of last year's Farm Bill,  or did he like chicken or tuna salad better and why.    I was like WTF man,  why are you not shouting at Bernard Shaw to have some f'g respect for Kitty Dukakis.  I felt like Dukakis was wrapped way too tight.​​I voted for Dukakis anyway. I told myself he'd been a good governor in Massachusetts and he wasn't going to run 4 more years of Reaganomics on his watch.   I wasn't unhappy on Election Night that he lost though.   I always liked Bush 41 better than Reagan,  so if the country was gonna roll with the GOP again in 1988,  at least the guy in the WH was someone I felt was far more informed and engaged than Reagan ever was.​
So when I think about trying to sort out why people voted for Trump v Clinton or Trump v Biden, I still do look back at 1988 when I had all kinds of reasons to vote for the Dems and yet was not unhappy they lost,  because honestly just the personalities of the two men was looming as the differentiator for me that year.   It was not quite enough to make me vote for Bush (because I really am a policy person) but very damn near it.  I think if it hadn't been for 8 years of Reagan before that,  I would have helped elect Bush 41 myself, even being a Dem and while being pissed off about the Willie Horton ad.  

In a way my reaction to Bush winning in 1988 is a little like Biden winning in 2020... sheer relief that someone actually engaged and competent although awkward sometimes would be in the White House again.  

As far as the 70 million Trump votes though, I expect we will see fairly soon how much of that was hardcore Trump cult followers and how many voted to acknowledge preference for Trump picking conservative high court justices or doing a lot of deregulation plus the tax cuts.   The people who went for him on policy will accept Biden's presidency but then just lean on their congress critters to fight the House tooth and nail, and will expect McConnell to shape Biden's agency picks and try to keep legislation to the right of center where it's been for so long already.

The unknown factor is whether the extreme right in the House will act the same without having Trump as their foil every morning on Twitter, or whether Trump will try to play head of a shadow government.   

It could get uglier than most of us would like to think right now because a lot of norms about new administrations --surface civility and honeymoon periods, previous admin figures staying low profile for awhile except for consulting behind scenes if asked, etc.--   are not things that would stand in the way of Trump pretending he's still the president, and so addressing only his supporters the way he does now, as if they and they alone are "Americans".  I'd like to think Fox et al would not enable that but I'm not really hopeful about it.  Some fair chunk of their audience won't even think Trump isn't speaking as the President any more;  it's not like they're all that connected to reality outside the screens of the Fox shows or Fox wouldn't have been playing this post-election game so long...

 Still I think more of the Trump voters of 2020 are policy people than they are the vociferous and fringe extreme right helping Trump write a dramatic exit from his one term Presisdency right now.    The clothespin-on-nose voters just have really good clothespins.  The platform in 2020 was far simpler:  "Trump!" -- and aimed at glossing over deep fractures in the GOP--  but that still translated to policy in the minds of those fans of tax cuts and deregulation who had clothespins in their pockets ready to use again.


----------



## Thomas Veil

And now 100+ US Republican representatives have signed a brief supporting the treasonous Texas lawsuit.









						More than 100 House Republicans sign brief backing Texas lawsuit challenging election results
					

More than 100 House Republicans on Thursday signed an amicus brief in support of the Texas lawsuit aimed at overturning the election results in four swing states — Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania a…




					thehill.com
				




Traitors, all of them.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> And now 100+ US Republican representatives have signed a brief supporting the treasonous Texas lawsuit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than 100 House Republicans sign brief backing Texas lawsuit challenging election results
> 
> 
> More than 100 House Republicans on Thursday signed an amicus brief in support of the Texas lawsuit aimed at overturning the election results in four swing states — Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania a…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Traitors, all of them.



These are enemies of the state. If the Dems get both Georgia senate seats, pass a progressive agenda quickly and forcefully. Ignore EVERY protestation from the right. They’ve forfeited the right to “stand on principle” for any issue whatsoever.


----------



## lizkat

Well they're going to need a lot of ACLU lawyers in Georgia in both early voting and on Jan 5th.    There'll be no end of efforts to keep those seats red. I'd like to think some R voters in that state are going to bolt the party and try to send a message putting Democrats in those chairs.     Can't quite get there in my head though.


----------



## JayMysteri0

What we may have to look forward after this side show
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337246958327574529/


----------



## JayMysteri0

Speaking of 'fail'
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337118483646009346/


----------



## thekev

Thomas Veil said:


> And now 100+ US Republican representatives have signed a brief supporting the treasonous Texas lawsuit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than 100 House Republicans sign brief backing Texas lawsuit challenging election results
> 
> 
> More than 100 House Republicans on Thursday signed an amicus brief in support of the Texas lawsuit aimed at overturning the election results in four swing states — Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania a…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Traitors, all of them.




The only upside to this is that if you want to punish them at the polls, you have a list of names. This is the kind of thing that I think deserves a lifelong ban from public office, because the filing is entirely predicated on sympathetic ears.


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> What we may have to look forward after this side show
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337246958327574529/




Ugh.  Gee.  Someone just stand up and say it was over by Nov 7th and now all 50 states attest to their totals and have so certified, so here's the EV count:  Biden over Trump, 306 to 232.

Maybe reason w/ those 106 GOP House idiots from where those high profile evangelical pastors are always willing to preach: ship them all a Bible.  Put bookmarks at Matthew 12:36-37 (NRSV)
​*"I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter;  for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."*​​​Add a personal note like

*Dear Congressman, with all due respect, the End Times might show up on short notice, so maybe get up to speed while there's still time.*​


----------



## Eraserhead

lizkat said:


> Happens to all who run a fiefdom and surround themselves with loyalists.
> 
> I just hope Biden isn't in the process of setting himself up that way.
> 
> Of course I voted for Biden-Harris but today was the first day I thought to take my Warren "Persist! But First, Coffee" mug out of the cupboard since the primaries...   not that I expected her to get a cabinet slot, and I'm not unhappy with names like Gary Gensler etc. being floated for financial posts but grabbing the Warren mug this morning was a little sign to myself that I have some concerns now as I see some of Biden's picks.  It was a conscious choice, not "OK grab a coffee mug..."
> 
> Vilsack to head up Agriculture woke me out of general enjoyment of just knowing I was watching a Dem pick agency heads.  I understand the politics of that post but I still expected him to pick...  well, just not Vilsack I guess.  Someone and maybe a person of color who thinks about food insecurity and "food deserts" and nutrition and public health problems related to obesity and picks up the phone and talks to HHS about it but also ramps up pressure on the private sector to be more responsive to American food-related health issues.    The choice of Vilsack just screams _I know I can get this guy confirmed again and he's a good guy and he's not Sonny Perdue but he's middle road no-surprises and everything's gonna be fine at_ Agribiz Agriculture, _no problem._
> 
> Sure we can live with that.  Vilasack's not gonna be trying to ditch food stamps and Biden's not gonna be trying to wish food box recipients well with special letters from the White House.  I'm just not convinced Vilsack's up to speed or especially fascinated by small specialty agriculture and etc., and that K street's lobbies for megacorporate ag regards Vilsack same as Biden does, _OK no worries_. Does that mean poultry processors will have to live with increased line speeds from the Trump era that are killing and maiming them? Inquiring progressives will be asking.
> 
> In theory I don't mind if progressives aren't leading the charge in agencies,  so long as they have a hand in the deputy slots and a genuine input to policymaking.  Right now I feel like that remains to be seen because of some pretty retro picks by Biden for top spots.   There are thousands of slots to fill so imma shut up now and see, but...



I would love Biden to nominate Warren or Sanders but there are GOP governors in their states so you just can’t unfortunately. The risk is far too high.


lizkat said:


> You're likely correct about that although I maintain that a big chunk of that 70 million votes represents people who held nose, voted for Trump (even again, yeah) because they are *Republican-leaners on policy matters* like taxes and deregulation.
> 
> I know it's hard to get one's mind around the idea of tolerating the behavior and motivations of this crew in the White House for the sake of policy expectations, but some voters do just see tax cuts and dereg as the linchpin of their political frameworks.​​And...some voters see  religious / social issues as determining their votes,  even though they may not approve in the least of Trump as he presents personally.​​Personally there's no way I can compartmentalize to quite that extent. Trump was always going to be a bridge too far for me, in so many ways.  But I can almost understand it.​
> We've probably all voted for a presidential candidate in the past at least once or twice where their expected policies were preferential to those of the opposing party's candidate,  even if looking at the candidates themselves we might even have felt like voting for the other guy.
> 
> Back in 1988 I was very conflicted before the election because I had a lot of respect for Bush 41 as a person.  But I preferred the policies of the Democrats to what looked like could be an extension of Reagan policies by Bush, although "maybe not", I told myself.  And I didn't much care for Dukakis personally; I thought he was wrapped way too tight,  although I admired his progressive track record in Massachusetts.
> 
> Then Bush throws a wrench into the picture with that Willie Horton ad, which made me loathe him and his campaign staff and his party.   Then Dukakis answers an outrageous question in debate about a hypothetical rape and murder of *his wife*: would he favor the death penalty, and Dukakis answered it with about as much emotional engagement as if he'd merely been asked what he thought of last year's Farm Bill,  or did he like chicken or tuna salad better and why.    I was like WTF man,  why are you not shouting at Bernard Shaw to have some f'g respect for Kitty Dukakis.  I felt like Dukakis was wrapped way too tight.​​I voted for Dukakis anyway. I told myself he'd been a good governor in Massachusetts and he wasn't going to run 4 more years of Reaganomics on his watch.   I wasn't unhappy on Election Night that he lost though.   I always liked Bush 41 better than Reagan,  so if the country was gonna roll with the GOP again in 1988,  at least the guy in the WH was someone I felt was far more informed and engaged than Reagan ever was.​
> So when I think about trying to sort out why people voted for Trump v Clinton or Trump v Biden, I still do look back at 1988 when I had all kinds of reasons to vote for the Dems and yet was not unhappy they lost,  because honestly just the personalities of the two men was looming as the differentiator for me that year.   It was not quite enough to make me vote for Bush (because I really am a policy person) but very damn near it.  I think if it hadn't been for 8 years of Reagan before that,  I would have helped elect Bush 41 myself, even being a Dem and while being pissed off about the Willie Horton ad.
> 
> In a way my reaction to Bush winning in 1988 is a little like Biden winning in 2020... sheer relief that someone actually engaged and competent although awkward sometimes would be in the White House again.
> 
> As far as the 70 million Trump votes though, I expect we will see fairly soon how much of that was hardcore Trump cult followers and how many voted to acknowledge preference for Trump picking conservative high court justices or doing a lot of deregulation plus the tax cuts.   The people who went for him on policy will accept Biden's presidency but then just lean on their congress critters to fight the House tooth and nail, and will expect McConnell to shape Biden's agency picks and try to keep legislation to the right of center where it's been for so long already.
> 
> The unknown factor is whether the extreme right in the House will act the same without having Trump as their foil every morning on Twitter, or whether Trump will try to play head of a shadow government.
> 
> It could get uglier than most of us would like to think right now because a lot of norms about new administrations --surface civility and honeymoon periods, previous admin figures staying low profile for awhile except for consulting behind scenes if asked, etc.--   are not things that would stand in the way of Trump pretending he's still the president, and so addressing only his supporters the way he does now, as if they and they alone are "Americans".  I'd like to think Fox et al would not enable that but I'm not really hopeful about it.  Some fair chunk of their audience won't even think Trump isn't speaking as the President any more;  it's not like they're all that connected to reality outside the screens of the Fox shows or Fox wouldn't have been playing this post-election game so long...
> 
> Still I think more of the Trump voters of 2020 are policy people than they are the vociferous and fringe extreme right helping Trump write a dramatic exit from his one term Presisdency right now.    The clothespin-on-nose voters just have really good clothespins.  The platform in 2020 was far simpler:  "Trump!" -- and aimed at glossing over deep fractures in the GOP--  but that still translated to policy in the minds of those fans of tax cuts and deregulation who had clothespins in their pockets ready to use again.



One other issue is that as we haven’t been able to hang out in person much this year it’s hard to persuade conservative voters to change their minds informally and offline.

Anyone who in 2016 was wavering over Trump but voted for him anyway should have been persuadable by going over what has happened. And people spending too much time on Facebook getting paranoid about socialism should have been persuadable to switch back. But without real human conversations that is hard.

I said to one of my conservative/libertarian friends who is pretty open minded is say “what have conservatives delivered for you over the past decade?”


----------



## Thomas Veil

thekev said:


> The only upside to this is that if you want to punish them at the polls, you have a list of names. This is the kind of thing that I think deserves a lifelong ban from public office, because the filing is entirely predicated on sympathetic ears.



I think whoever runs against these 106 quislings in the next congressional elections should run ads specifically calling them out as traitors. Refer to them constantly as “the traitor Steve Scalia”, “the treasonous Jim Jordan”, and so on.

Or...maybe we should all start doing that right now.


----------



## rdrr

SuperMatt said:


> These are enemies of the state. If the Dems get both Georgia senate seats, pass a progressive agenda quickly and forcefully. Ignore EVERY protestation from the right. They’ve forfeited the right to “stand on principle” for any issue whatsoever.




So if we do get the senate, here are thing top of the list things that need correcting.  They have mostly been traditions, now need actual laws/rules.

1.  Presidential Candidates MUST release their taxes for the past 7 years minimum.
2.  Presidents MUST divest themselves for their term(s) in office. 
3.  Nepotism laws need to be shored up.  No direct family members (except for first spouse) or spouse of family member can work for the administration in any capacity.
4.  You have one legal challenge to a voting issue.
5.  The term between the election and the swearing in needs to be shortened.
6.  The certification of the vote needs to be it.  Electors cannot be faithless.
7.  Presidents, Secretary of (XXX), Whitehouse Administration needs to respond to subpoenas.
8.  Presidential records act needs to be enforced.
9.  Justice Department needs to be independent of the Executive Branch.

Edit
10!!! can't believe I forgot this.  Pardons cannot be a blanket get out of jail card.  They have to be for a specific crime and you have to admit you are guilty of that crime.   One PARDON only.   If you did multiple crimes, well...  You are screwed.


----------



## Eraserhead

I’d like elected officials in congress and for elections to pass security clearance as well.


----------



## lizkat

Eraserhead said:


> *Anyone who in 2016 was wavering over Trump but voted for him anyway should have been persuadable by going over what has happened.* And people spending too much time on Facebook getting paranoid about socialism should have been persuadable to switch back. But without real human conversations that is hard.




Yep.  I think some of that did probably happen.  Data though seems mostly anecdotal.  Vote totals are fungible so we don't see overall who shifted from Trump to Biden in 2020 on track record disapproval,  vs who didn't vote in 2016 and voted for Trump in 2020 without a clue what was in the EOs that weren't publicized.


----------



## Alli

Eraserhead said:


> I’d like elected officials in congress and for elections to pass security clearance as well.



And term limits. Don’t forget term limits!

And welcome to our little corner of heaven.


----------



## thekev

rdrr said:


> 6.  The certification of the vote needs to be it.  Electors cannot be faithless.
> 7.  Presidents, Secretary of (XXX), Whitehouse Administration needs to respond to subpoenas.




Just on these two, number 6 is likely an issue of state law or an amendment. Many states have laws against faithless electors. I'm not sure it actually invalidates their vote if they go rogue, but they can be prosecuted. Some states have toyed with the idea of allocating electors based on the outcome of the popular vote. It's up to the states how to allocate electors, even though anything that goes against norms may result in some number of lawsuits.

Number 7 is an issue of enforcement. You need either Congress or the Supreme Court to have these guys arrested and dragged in if they do not appear voluntarily. Without a willingness to do that, you have this nonsense.

You probably need some limits on the power of presidential pardons to really make it really effective, which may in fact require an amendment.


----------



## fooferdoggie

I am starting to wonder if all of what trump is doing is what Putin wants? that's what Russia wants is us in doubt and divided. of course trump wants the money too


----------



## Huntn

lizkat said:


> You're likely correct about that although I maintain that a big chunk of that 70 million votes represents people who held nose, voted for Trump (even again, yeah) because they are *Republican-leaners on policy matters* like taxes and deregulation.
> 
> I know it's hard to get one's mind around the idea of tolerating the behavior and motivations of this crew in the White House for the sake of policy expectations, but some voters do just see tax cuts and dereg as the linchpin of their political frameworks.​​And...some voters see  religious / social issues as determining their votes,  even though they may not approve in the least of Trump as he presents personally.​​Personally there's no way I can compartmentalize to quite that extent. Trump was always going to be a bridge too far for me, in so many ways.  But I can almost understand it.​
> We've probably all voted for a presidential candidate in the past at least once or twice where their expected policies were preferential to those of the opposing party's candidate,  even if looking at the candidates themselves we might even have felt like voting for the other guy.
> 
> Back in 1988 I was very conflicted before the election because I had a lot of respect for Bush 41 as a person.  But I preferred the policies of the Democrats to what looked like could be an extension of Reagan policies by Bush, although "maybe not", I told myself.  And I didn't much care for Dukakis personally; I thought he was wrapped way too tight,  although I admired his progressive track record in Massachusetts.
> 
> Then Bush throws a wrench into the picture with that Willie Horton ad, which made me loathe him and his campaign staff and his party.   Then Dukakis answers an outrageous question in debate about a hypothetical rape and murder of *his wife*: would he favor the death penalty, and Dukakis answered it with about as much emotional engagement as if he'd merely been asked what he thought of last year's Farm Bill,  or did he like chicken or tuna salad better and why.    I was like WTF man,  why are you not shouting at Bernard Shaw to have some f'g respect for Kitty Dukakis.  I felt like Dukakis was wrapped way too tight.​​I voted for Dukakis anyway. I told myself he'd been a good governor in Massachusetts and he wasn't going to run 4 more years of Reaganomics on his watch.   I wasn't unhappy on Election Night that he lost though.   I always liked Bush 41 better than Reagan,  so if the country was gonna roll with the GOP again in 1988,  at least the guy in the WH was someone I felt was far more informed and engaged than Reagan ever was.​
> So when I think about trying to sort out why people voted for Trump v Clinton or Trump v Biden, I still do look back at 1988 when I had all kinds of reasons to vote for the Dems and yet was not unhappy they lost,  because honestly just the personalities of the two men was looming as the differentiator for me that year.   It was not quite enough to make me vote for Bush (because I really am a policy person) but very damn near it.  I think if it hadn't been for 8 years of Reagan before that,  I would have helped elect Bush 41 myself, even being a Dem and while being pissed off about the Willie Horton ad.
> 
> In a way my reaction to Bush winning in 1988 is a little like Biden winning in 2020... sheer relief that someone actually engaged and competent although awkward sometimes would be in the White House again.
> 
> As far as the 70 million Trump votes though, I expect we will see fairly soon how much of that was hardcore Trump cult followers and how many voted to acknowledge preference for Trump picking conservative high court justices or doing a lot of deregulation plus the tax cuts.   The people who went for him on policy will accept Biden's presidency but then just lean on their congress critters to fight the House tooth and nail, and will expect McConnell to shape Biden's agency picks and try to keep legislation to the right of center where it's been for so long already.
> 
> The unknown factor is whether the extreme right in the House will act the same without having Trump as their foil every morning on Twitter, or whether Trump will try to play head of a shadow government.
> 
> It could get uglier than most of us would like to think right now because a lot of norms about new administrations --surface civility and honeymoon periods, previous admin figures staying low profile for awhile except for consulting behind scenes if asked, etc.--   are not things that would stand in the way of Trump pretending he's still the president, and so addressing only his supporters the way he does now, as if they and they alone are "Americans".  I'd like to think Fox et al would not enable that but I'm not really hopeful about it.  Some fair chunk of their audience won't even think Trump isn't speaking as the President any more;  it's not like they're all that connected to reality outside the screens of the Fox shows or Fox wouldn't have been playing this post-election game so long...
> 
> Still I think more of the Trump voters of 2020 are policy people than they are the vociferous and fringe extreme right helping Trump write a dramatic exit from his one term Presisdency right now.    The clothespin-on-nose voters just have really good clothespins.  The platform in 2020 was far simpler:  "Trump!" -- and aimed at glossing over deep fractures in the GOP--  but that still translated to policy in the minds of those fans of tax cuts and deregulation who had clothespins in their pockets ready to use again.



Very insightful, I just can’t wrap my head around _he’s good for business, a deregulator, he‘s good for conservative judges, (_while he thinks corrupt judges_), and he’ll be good to eliminate abortions, and all I have to pay for this with is my soul, my pretense at being a fiscal hawk, and to embrace corruption, fascism, and destroy our democracy_,  while assisting a malignant sociopath to seize power as a dictator. They probably lock that last part out of their calculations or heaven help us, think he is a profit (Ironic term). 

He pushes what he perceives as the limits, look at the multitude of failed court cases. I’m sure he felt his judges would back his BS (surprise shit head!) and if he thought he had a lock on the military, it would be Marshall law and Supreme Leader for our foreseeable future. 

Sure there are people who don’t follow the path beyond tomorrow, maybe they just lock those aspects   of a malignant, immoral sociopath out of their calculations because there is too much profit, perceived profit, too much green $ clouding their vision. We can still be critical of them because it’s the exact same thinking that will ruin the Planet for us and I can only say we’ll deserve it, because by our action/inaction we are unworthy.

Btw I voted for Bush Sr, then made my break for Clinton. I was an independent for both votes.


----------



## Huntn

fooferdoggie said:


> I am starting to wonder if all of what trump is doing is what Putin wants? that's what Russia wants is us in doubt and divided. of course trump wants the money too



Thump is a gold mine for Mother Russia. Btw, I am reading *The Kremlin’s Candidate* released in 2018, the third in a series of excellent spy novels, and this author has both Trump and Putin nailed. The references in the book are towards POTUS.


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> He pushes what he perceives as the limits, look at the multitude of failed court cases.




Yeah and it's not lost on McConnell that the cases are largely in *state* courts. My concern right now is drifting away from Trump for the moment to how McConnell reveals the intent behind his obsession to pack the federal courts system with right wing ideologues.

Part of his resistance to the next covid relief bill is about liability of businesses for covid-related issues.   McConnell realizes he's probably not going to have his way by squashing such liability entirely via stipulations in the relief bill,  so he's hoping instead *to force all those cases to be federal ones,* *urging states to quickly pass legislation saying exactly that*, i.e. that if you intend to sue a business over what you regard as wrongful treatment related to how the establishment dealt with you and your exposure to or infection from covid-19 --worker safety, failure to issue protective gear etc.-- then *you must take your case not to your state's civil courts but to the federal court system [where McConnell's pro-business jurists await you].*


----------



## Eraserhead

fooferdoggie said:


> I am starting to wonder if all of what trump is doing is what Putin wants? that's what Russia wants is us in doubt and divided. of course trump wants the money too




Putin wants a divided Europe (and to a lesser extent a divided USA) and the ability to sell oil and gas.


----------



## rdrr

Ok we have officially gone into full three ring circus mode.   God this is embarrassing. 

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337481504457363456/


----------



## lizkat

rdrr said:


> Ok we have officially gone into full three ring circus mode. God this is embarrassing.




We were already the laughingstock of the world.   Not sure the Supreme Court will be amused.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Okay, check this out. 









						Top House Republican Kevin McCarthy backs Texas' long-shot Supreme Court bid to overturn Biden wins
					

Nancy Pelosi slammed McCarthy and other Republicans supporting Texas' far-fetched Supreme Court suit to effectively reverse Biden's projected win over Trump.




					www.cnbc.com
				




The count of House Republicans who want to overthrow the election is now up to *126.*

This is treason. It’s also the world’s biggest FU to the Democratic Party. An act of combined entitlement and political treachery the likes of which this country has never before seen.  

So let me ask you all this...

How are the Democrats in Congress _*ever*_ supposed to work with these people again?

How are you supposed to deal in a professional way with 126 people who _tried to steal an election from you?_

How is that in any way, shape or form supposed to work??

It’s like being expected to share an office and work side by side with the guy who tried to rape your wife.


----------



## lizkat

Thomas Veil said:


> Okay, check this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top House Republican Kevin McCarthy backs Texas' long-shot Supreme Court bid to overturn Biden wins
> 
> 
> Nancy Pelosi slammed McCarthy and other Republicans supporting Texas' far-fetched Supreme Court suit to effectively reverse Biden's projected win over Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The count of House Republicans who want to overthrow the election is now up to *126.*
> 
> This is treason. It’s also the world’s biggest FU to the Democratic Party. An act of combined entitlement and political treachery the likes of which this country has never before seen.
> 
> So let me ask you all this...
> ;
> How are the Democrats in Congress _*ever*_ supposed to work with these people again?
> 
> How are you supposed to deal in a professional way with 126 people who _tried to steal an election from you?_
> 
> How is that in any way, shape or form supposed to work??
> 
> It’s like being expected to share an office and work side by side with the guy who tried to rape your wife.



Yah,  work that must be done across the aisle in the House will be problematic in 2021 without some self-serving apologies from these Rs.  They're probably not going to apologize anyway; they're more likely to double down. 

What really is the point of this?  Ass-covering by GOP congress critters afraid of their Trump-loving constituents? Trump is insane and the House lackeys are admiring the clothes on a naked emperor.  

How are historians going to present this chapter of our lives together in a textbook someday?


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> Okay, check this out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top House Republican Kevin McCarthy backs Texas' long-shot Supreme Court bid to overturn Biden wins
> 
> 
> Nancy Pelosi slammed McCarthy and other Republicans supporting Texas' far-fetched Supreme Court suit to effectively reverse Biden's projected win over Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The count of House Republicans who want to overthrow the election is now up to *126.*
> 
> This is treason. It’s also the world’s biggest FU to the Democratic Party. An act of combined entitlement and political treachery the likes of which this country has never before seen.
> 
> So let me ask you all this...
> 
> How are the Democrats in Congress _*ever*_ supposed to work with these people again?
> 
> How are you supposed to deal in a professional way with 126 people who _tried to steal an election from you?_
> 
> How is that in any way, shape or form supposed to work??
> 
> It’s like being expected to share an office and work side by side with the guy who tried to rape your wife.



Truly I hope for the Georgia Senate seats to “go blue” although I’m not holding my breath. Dems need to do what is right for America - a progressive agenda. If the Republicans complain, ignore them completely.


----------



## SuperMatt

Supreme Court delivers a Smackdown to Trump. Only Alito and Thomas said anything in dissent. No surprise there; they are the worst two justices, always going 100% ideology with no consistent legal philosophy.

Texas doesn’t have standing to sue another state for how they run their elections. DUH. Everybody knew this, and it took probably 10 minutes for SCOTUS to make this decision.









						Supreme Court Rejects Texas Suit Seeking to Subvert Election (Published 2020)
					

The suit, filed directly in the Supreme Court, sought to bar Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin from casting their electoral votes for Joseph R. Biden Jr.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## lizkat

There doesn't seem to be a leg to stand on with the Texas case and the claim that a dispute between two states gets resolved in the Supreme Court is not correct w/ respect to state controls on elections. 

The states can set their rules however their own frameworks allows, whether legislatively or by amendment ot state constitution etc.   None of the methods and timings the states chose to use in 2020 --to enable safer ways of voting during this coronavirus pandemic and to count those additional votes--  was obscure or hard to understand, no matter if other states do it differently. 

Also,  all the states have certified their votes after any required or requested recounts  and so they're ready to cast the EVs on Monday.

Monday night, this better be over.  Are we not sick of seeing this circus put on to placate a wacko lame duck head of state?    I don't get McConnell and McCarthy playing along,  it's like shredding the Constitution and setting precedents by their behavior that they'll never tolerate when a Dem does it. 

The Rs cannot expect the Dems to stand by and watch this travesty of "sedition theatre" without ensuring consequences that will affect both paries in future.   This is a given.   To me it's inexplicable they are going down this road.


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> Thump is a gold mine for Mother Russia. Btw, I am reading *The Kremlin’s Candidate* released in 2018, the third in a series of excellent spy novels, and this author has both Trump and Putin nailed. The references in the book are towards POTUS.




I mean to look into these.  I like spy novels.  Thanks!


----------



## thekev

lizkat said:


> Yah,  work that must be done across the aisle in the House will be problematic in 2021 without some self-serving apologies from these Rs.  They're probably not going to apologize anyway; they're more likely to double down.
> 
> What really is the point of this?  Ass-covering by GOP congress critters afraid of their Trump-loving constituents? Trump is insane and the House lackeys are admiring the clothes on a naked emperor.
> 
> How are historians going to present this chapter of our lives together in a textbook someday?




Forcing them to stare at the emperor's penis isn't sufficient punishment. They all need to be kicked out of office. 



lizkat said:


> The Rs cannot expect the Dems to stand by and watch this travesty of "sedition theatre" without ensuring consequences that will affect both paries in future.   This is a given.   To me it's inexplicable they are going down this road.




It seems more like Night Supreme Court than Sedition Theatre.


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> Supreme Court delivers a Smackdown to Trump. Only Alito and Thomas said anything in dissent. No surprise there; they are the worst two justices, always going 100% ideology with no consistent legal philosophy.
> 
> Texas doesn’t have standing to sue another state for how they run their elections. DUH. Everybody knew this, and it took probably 10 minutes for SCOTUS to make this decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supreme Court Rejects Texas Suit Seeking to Subvert Election (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> The suit, filed directly in the Supreme Court, sought to bar Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin from casting their electoral votes for Joseph R. Biden Jr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com




Welp, Texas says so what and doubles down on insisting there's an alternative.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337549501507264515/


----------



## SuperMatt

lizkat said:


> Welp, Texas says so what and doubles down on insisting there's an alternative.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337549501507264515/



How fracking stupid to go to civil war over Donald Trump? Why not go to war over calling fizzy drinks soda vs pop? Holy cow, the minds of conservatives have been reduced to a slurry of coffee grounds and vinegar or something...


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> How fracking stupid to go to civil war over Donald Trump? Why not go to war over calling fizzy drinks soda vs pop? Holy cow, the minds of conservatives have been reduced to a slurry of coffee grounds and vinegar or something...




Trump loves being in the middle of all this.  It's all about him and the best of his covfefe:

* I alone divided America! *​​*The bitterness and gnashing of teeth is unprecedented!*​
The thing is he never understood or liked the job (except for exploring what he could personally get away with regarding exercise of power).  He let all kinds of agendas get implemented without supervision, went golfing more often than picked up a phone to inquire about details of legislation... why are these GOP congressmen making nearly traitorous fools of themselves over this moron who cares nothing for them or the well being of the people they are supposed to represent after swearing an oath binding them to the Constiution.

It's not like the GOP didn't get a lot of what their 2016 platform aimed for.  These guys are just burning themselves and their party to the ground because they can't stop playing political gotcha games, and Trump loves the conflict it stirs up.   He's gone in January and leaves behind a House and Senate full of partisans struggling to keep from wanting to kill each other over an election that wasn't even close.

Strikes me it's like not being able to put the desktop's mouse down and leave an addictive video game behind when it's time to go to work.    There's no cognition involved when operating in thrall to addiction.  These guys are addicted to GOTCHA.  It's pathetic.  Not even juvenile, it's Infantile.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337569038222962688/

At some wasn't schooling involved to become a lawyer?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337550759768944640/


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337793755160539139/

If only...


----------



## Huntn

Texas breaks bad filing a frivolous, without merit lawsuit on behalf of The Head Crook, which is rejected immediately. Who are these Texans?

*SCOTUS Rejects Seditious Texas Lawsuit Out of Hand*
https://crooksandliars.com/2020/12/scotus-rejects-seditious-texas-lawsuit-out
120+ GOP Congressmen supported this lawsuit without merit. Who are these Republican?
Here are the Republican members of Congress who signed on to the suit to throw out the votes in 4 states​https://news.yahoo.com/here-are-the...w-out-the-votes-in-four-states-195834720.html
And the icing on the cake. Lacking knowledge, wisdom, and judgement, more kneejerk idiocy from deep in the heart of Texas. Let’s talk to them about their National Debt tab...  
Texas GOP actually suggests secession after Trump's Supreme Court election challenge fails​https://www.alternet.org/2020/12/texas-secession/


----------



## Thomas Veil

Again, Democrats should attach the words "seditious" or "treasonous" to every single one of those Republicans from now until at least 2022. They've given the Dems a gift to use against them in the next election and beyond.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337834656268509194/


----------



## lizkat

Thomas Veil said:


> Again, Democrats should attach the words "seditious" or "treasonous" to every single one of those Republicans from now until at least 2022. They've given the Dems a gift to use against them in the next election and beyond.




I've been thinking about this.   We need to come together as Americans to get some stuff done, that's for sure, and so I'm not convinced it would be good for Pelosi to refuse to seat these seditious sons of guns, but it would not be right for the House not to set the record straight for history about their behavior, either.

So I would hope the 117th House after being sworn in would censure them all by name with a long "... whereas..."  explaining what they did and said in December that completely ignored the oath they knew they would have to swear in January (and that they were already sworn to if they were incumbents re-elected in November).   Let history be the judge of them but let the record show the depth of their betrayal of their oath to the Constitution.


----------



## Yoused

I kind of disagree. We have let these people have way too much slack. They have been demonstrating that they can get away with behaving like toddlers. We simply have to rein them in. If they reject the result of the election, that is on them: tell them to petition their state for a special election that they can run in and, if the win, they may have a seat, because apparently this election was not satisfactory for them.

Seriously, do we want spoiled brats in Congress? I mean, not that many of them are not as it is, but if they can behave with decorum, we can tolerate them. This bullshit has gone on long enough. If we let them push and do not push back, they will keep pushing until we end up against the wall.


----------



## Huntn

lizkat said:


> I've been thinking about this.   We need to come together as Americans to get some stuff done, that's for sure, and so I'm not convinced it would be good for Pelosi to refuse to seat these seditious sons of guns, but it would not be right for the House not to set the record straight for history about their behavior, either.
> 
> So I would hope the 117th House after being sworn in would censure them all by name with a long "... whereas..."  explaining what they did and said in December that completely ignored the oath they knew they would have to swear in January (and that they were already sworn to if they were incumbents re-elected in November).   Let history be the judge of them but let the record show the depth of their betrayal of their oath to the Constitution.






Yoused said:


> I kind of disagree. We have let these people have way too much slack. They have been demonstrating that they can get away with behaving like toddlers. We simply have to rein them in. If they reject the result of the election, that is on them: tell them to petition their state for a special election that they can run in and, if the win, they may have a seat, because apparently this election was not satisfactory for them.
> 
> Seriously, do we want spoiled brats in Congress? I mean, not that many of them are not as it is, but if they can behave with decorum, we can tolerate them. This bullshit has gone on long enough. If we let them push and do not push back, they will keep pushing until we end up against the wall.



I agree with both your points and as long as districts support, endorse this kind of representation I think we are close to being screwed and a revolution if half the country or let’s say 30-40% have broken bad, live in a fantasy world where lies are ok, _as long as I think I get what I want._ We are no longer a functioning team and the reality is that the sheep are just too stupid to realize they’ve thrown in with the shearers, as in _it’s good to be a sheep, with benevolent owners, I’ll be taken care of, _volunteering to subvert the standards of a democracy or have decided that they no longer want to participate in a democracy where they don’t get their way. 

It’s a long shot we will even see censure of any kind.


----------



## Eraserhead

Huntn said:


> I agree with both your points and as long as districts support, endorse this kind of representation I think we are close to being screwed and a revolution if half the country or let’s say 30-40% have broken bad, live in a fantasy world where lies are ok, _as long as I think I get what I want._ We are no longer a functioning team and the reality is that the sheep are just too stupid to realize they’ve thrown in with the shearers, as in _it’s good to be a sheep, with benevolent owners, I’ll be taken care of, _volunteering to subvert the standards of a democracy and have decided that they no longer want to participate in a democracy where they don’t get their way.
> 
> It’s a long shot we will even see censure of any kind.




personally I’d deny the leadership people and allow the others in if they apologise and issue a statement saying Biden was elected free and fair.


----------



## Alli

Eraserhead said:


> personally I’d deny the leadership people and allow the others in if they apologise and issue a statement saying Biden was elected free and fair.



It’s definitely time they all have to publicly admit Biden won.


----------



## lizkat

Yoused said:


> I kind of disagree. We have let these people have way too much slack. They have been demonstrating that they can get away with behaving like toddlers. We simply have to rein them in. If they reject the result of the election, that is on them: tell them to petition their state for a special election that they can run in and, if the win, they may have a seat, because apparently this election was not satisfactory for them.
> 
> Seriously, do we want spoiled brats in Congress? I mean, not that many of them are not as it is, but if they can behave with decorum, we can tolerate them. This bullshit has gone on long enough. If we let them push and do not push back, they will keep pushing until we end up against the wall.




You're right, of course.   But not to seat all those congress critters --nearly a quarter of the House-- will be seen as *disenfranchising their constituents*.  That is a lot of American voters plus the armchair quarterbacks who didn't bother voting but will be up in arms (possibly literally) over "your Democrat [sic] leadership is not seating MY Republican congressman? wtf and gtfo"  and etc. 

Not sure how that really helps Biden do the one thing he has to do early on in office,  which is make it clear this administration is not focused on splitting one group of Americans from another in order to make political hay and self-serving "Feel Our Power Baby!" headlines off it. 

We'd almost certainly lose the House in 2022 --given the usual midterm slide in a same-party administration's grip on that body--  and could immediately forget cooperation across the aisle if we did not get the two Georgia Senate seats still awaiting runoff elections on Jan 5th.   Would also make great fodder for R ads in ensuing state legislative and governorship campaigns.  _"These people took your vote away during the 117th Congress..."_

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Pelosi not seat that whole crowd and it would be a reinforcement of bright lines regarding our rule of law.    But a possibly pyrrhic victory in the end doesn't really help keep the next Trump from cashing in on the displaced, misplaced rage of his authoritarian followers.  That's my concern. 

Sure the activists among them are louder than the more passive-reactive types among their number,  and in total they are a distinct minority...  but loud counts too much in the age of social media and instantaneous communication.  And we don't really know how many Trump voters in 2020 were policy voters looking for more tax cuts and deregulation, versus those w/ Trump on a pedestal.  Some suggest it's about a third in the Trump cult.   Maybe they'll implode like other cults do on very short notice.  But, maybe they won't.   Not seating those 126 Rs in Congress would prolong their allegiance.


----------



## lizkat

R congress critter, asked for proof of voter fraud, says he wasn't at 1969 moon landing, can't prove that it occurred.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1338150150376738823/


----------



## Yoused

That is pathetic. I was there, and so was he. I watched 5 of the 6 landing on TV. He probably did too, as ten-year-olds are wont to do. If he says he was not there, he is no better than any other garden variety CTist.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Yup
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1338646482581401601/


----------



## JayMysteri0

Some more crazy pants



> https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...try-cast-11-electoral-votes-trump/6536056002/





> In another sign of the lingering unrest over President Donald Trump's election loss, an Arizona group sent the National Archives in Washington, D.C., notarized documents last week intended to deliver, wrongly, the state's 11 electoral votes for him.
> 
> Copies of the documents obtained by The Arizona Republic show a group that claimed to represent the "sovereign citizens of the Great State of Arizona" submitted signed papers casting votes for what they want: a second term for Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.
> 
> Mesa resident Lori Osiecki, 62, helped created a facsimile of the "certificate of ascertainment" that is submitted to formally cast each state's electoral votes as part of an effort to prevent what she views as the fraudulent theft of the election.
> 
> "We seated before the legislators here. We already turned it in. We beat them to the game," she said.





> The 11 electors actually chosen by Arizona voters last month — meeting in an unpublicized location because of security concerns over their task — cast their votes Monday for President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, formalizing the Democrats' victory nationally and in the state.
> 
> While Osiecki's elector documents do not appear to have been taken as genuine, they are part of a weekslong effort, led by Trump, his advisers, and involving Arizona Republican Party officials and three members of Arizona's GOP congressional delegation casting doubt on the legitimacy of Biden's victory in Arizona and nationally.






> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paulmcleod/electoral-college-trump-supporters





> The fantasy narrative has spilled out of the internet and into the streets. In Georgia, pro-Trump Republicans claimed to cast the state’s Electoral College votes for Trump. (Biden won Georgia by 12,000 votes.) In Nevada, the chair of the state’s Republican Party held a press conference to “certify” Nevada’s six electoral votes for Trump. (Biden won Nevada by 34,000 votes.) In Michigan, a crowd of would-be electors demanded to enter the statehouse to cast their votes for Trump, but were refused because the actual Electoral College members were already inside.
> 
> These Republican votes are not official, not recognized, and have no real-world weight whatsoever. But to Trump’s die-hard fans, they are a key part of a plan that ends with Congress overturning the election results and handing the presidency back to Trump.
> 
> The theory goes that when Congress counts the Electoral College votes on Jan. 6, lawmakers will declare Biden’s win to be fraudulent and choose to count the pro-Trump slates of Electoral College votes instead, carrying him to victory. The pro-Trump internet is awash with slogans like “Hold the line” and “Stop the steal” calling for supporters not to give up.
> 
> “There is a 0.0% chance Biden will see his hand on a bible on January 20th. Fear not,” reads one comment on the pro-Trump message board TheDonald.win that is in line with the general sentiment.
> 
> This narrative is being reinforced straight from the White House.
> 
> “We have more than enough time to right the wrong of this fraudulent election result and certify Donald Trump as the winner,” Trump adviser Stephen Miller said on Fox News Monday morning.
> 
> The idea is based on an unprecedented but technically possible reading of the United States Constitution. In theory, Congress could try to count a renegade set of Electoral College votes, or just refuse to count Electoral College votes cast for Joe Biden. It’s a desperate long shot. So far, not a single Republican in the Senate has agreed to challenge the Electoral College results, and nearly all of them would need to go along with such a scheme.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> Some more crazy pants



Stephen Miller needs to be locked up. These people pledged an oath to the constitution and they are knowingly and obviously betraying that oath.


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> Stephen Miller needs to be locked up. These people pledged an oath to the constitution and they are knowingly and obviously betraying that oath.




That guy always had my nomination as the most dangerous of the Trump White House inner circle.


----------



## JayMysteri0

I have to start realizing that this is some ability or gift delivered upon a select group of American citizens denied the rest of us no matter our backgrounds.

Trending on Twitter at this time with 14K is #Bidenwillneverbepresident

How does that work?  I hadn't realized until this year, that some people can just 'will away' the results of an election.  If I had known that, I would have done it 4 years ago.  Along with quite a few others I'm sure.

I remember when people were getting all in their feelings when "Not my president" started with Bush, and posters in "the other land" wanted desperately for me stopping using "45" as my reference to the current president.

But, #Bidenwillneverbepresident is taking it up a completely new level.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Keepin' with the Crazy part whatever:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1338621058937729024/

I wonder how long this will work out?


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> Keepin' with the Crazy part whatever:
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1338621058937729024/
> 
> I wonder how long this will work out?




Until 2022 lol.    He'll probaby still vote with the Rs now though on any key legislation.


----------



## Joe

I went to pick up my dinner tonight and the truck in front of me had a sticker that said “The Deplorables” and another sticker that said “Trump 2020 Stop the Steal!” I had to do a facepalm  They already have Stop the steal bumper stickers! He also had a big gun sticker saying he will be ready to fight for his 2A rights.

We need to work on mental health in this country.  People who put these crazy stickers on their vehicles have issues. And most of the time it’s right wing BS.


----------



## Yoused

Back in 2014, the Texas Republican Party had a plank in the official party platform repudiating the teaching in schools of critical thinking skills. Someone decided that was not a good look, so they deleted it before the platform was finalized, but not before we had a chance to see it in there.

Teaching that aggressively would probably improve the situation is this country.


----------



## Huntn

Yoused said:


> Back in 2014, the Texas Republican Party had a plank in the official party platform repudiating the teaching in schools of critical thinking skills. Someone decided that was not a good look, so they deleted it before the platform was finalized, but not before we had a chance to see it in there.
> 
> Teaching that aggressively would probably improve the situation is this country.



Unfortunately we have a major political party and at least one dominating religion dead set on delusional thinking as the key to their success.


----------



## Thomas Veil

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned already, but maybe we're getting inured to this stuff.









						Heated Oval Office meeting included talk of special counsel, martial law as Trump advisers clash
					

President Donald Trump convened a heated meeting in the Oval Office on Friday, including lawyer Sidney Powell and her client, former national security adviser Michael Flynn, two people familiar with the matter said, describing a session that began as an impromptu gathering but devolved and...




					www.cnn.com
				




Heated Oval Office meeting included talk of special counsel, martial law as Trump advisers clash​


> (CNN)President Donald Trump convened a heated meeting in the Oval Office on Friday, including lawyer Sidney Powell and her client, former national security adviser Michael Flynn, two people familiar with the matter said, describing a session that began as an impromptu gathering but devolved and eventually broke out into screaming matches at certain points as some of Trump's aides pushed back on Powell and Flynn's more outrageous suggestions about overturning the election.





> *Flynn had suggested earlier this week that Trump could invoke martial law as part of his efforts to overturn the election that he lost to President-elect Joe Biden -- an idea that arose again during the meeting in the Oval Office*, one of the people said. It wasn't clear whether Trump endorsed the idea, but others in the room forcefully pushed back and shot it down.



My bold.

I'm glad someone was there to argue against the idea. _Martial law???_ "Investigating" a clean election? To overturn a result you don't like?

Flynn has committed another crime--conspiracy to commit treason--and so has Powell. Trump's pardon of Flynn for past events won't cover this, unless Trump issues another one.

Somebody in the Biden administration, please have the courage to charge them both.


----------



## JayMysteri0

When you KNOW it's a wrap
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1341149174377508865/


----------



## SuperMatt

This Twitter thread shows you that: people don’t understand that some counties have 150 people in them while others have over 4 million in them. It also shows that there are LOTS of total rubes out there that STILL think Trump won. Were all these people this dumb to begin with, or did their brains slowly atrophy from a steady diet of Trump-tweets for 4 years?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1340180468239503361/


----------



## DT

I love how the halfwits are trying to show how impartial they are by posting something Obama related ... I'm sure 99% of the people reposting this also were "birthers".

Silly fuckers.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Well, this is embarassing

Well gosh darn it, we owe 45 & friends an apology...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1341154553731932160/

I wonder how severely & swiftly they will go after the individual?


----------



## JayMysteri0

Perhaps this shouldn't have been a door opened in front of a landscaping place...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1341173975657951239/

"_Hey you, tell them to put the Kraken back!_"  "_False call, again!_"


----------



## Thomas Veil

And the beat goes on.









						Pro-Trump lawyer calls for Georgia runoffs boycott, hints at arresting Loeffler, Perdue
					

Lin Wood shared a plan to boycott Georgia's upcoming Senate runoff race, and hinted at arresting GOP Senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue.




					www.newsweek.com
				






> Lin Wood, a pro-Trump lawyer who has been aggressively promoting unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud, tweeted a plan to boycott Georgia's critical Senate runoff race Friday and hinted at arresting GOP Senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue.




This yutz is so convinced there's a mysterious algorithm that is switching votes, he is recommending Republicans boycott the runoff. This, to his mind, will confuse the algorithm so much that it will record a *negative* number of Republican votes. That will in turn cause SCOTUS to invalidate the election and Loeffler, Perdue and others will be arrested.

I mean, he's got _charts_ and _everything! _

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1342650137382969344/​
It's frightening the number of mentally certifiable people there are out there in responsible positions. Let's hope this joker gets disbarred.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> And the beat goes on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pro-Trump lawyer calls for Georgia runoffs boycott, hints at arresting Loeffler, Perdue
> 
> 
> Lin Wood shared a plan to boycott Georgia's upcoming Senate runoff race, and hinted at arresting GOP Senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This yutz is so convinced there's a mysterious algorithm that is switching votes, he is recommending Republicans boycott the runoff. This, to his mind, will confuse the algorithm so much that it will record a *negative* number of Republican votes. That will in turn cause SCOTUS to invalidate the election and Loeffler, Perdue and others will be arrested.
> 
> I mean, he's got _charts_ and _everything! _
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1342650137382969344/​
> It's frightening the number of mentally certifiable people there are out there in responsible positions. Let's hope this joker gets disbarred.



If Republicans lose both runoffs due to low turnout related to boycotts, will the party come to their senses and start expelling the worst elements of the Trump movement?


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> If Republicans lose both runoffs due to low turnout related to boycotts, will the party come to their senses and start expelling the worst elements of the Trump movement?



I doubt it.


----------



## Scepticalscribe

SuperMatt said:


> If Republicans lose both runoffs due to low turnout related to boycotts, will the party come to their senses and start expelling the worst elements of the Trump movement?




No, I very much doubt it.

They have spent the past four years enabling him, and they have yet to admit, "own", or take responsibility for all that has been allowed to happen suring his presidency.


----------



## Huntn

SuperMatt said:


> If Republicans lose both runoffs due to low turnout related to boycotts, will the party come to their senses and start expelling the worst elements of the Trump movement?



You might think that losing both Houses of Congress would do it.  The trend of losing their grip arguable started in 2018 with losing the House and must be ambiguously clear, but the GOP gained seats in the House in 2020.

Then the question becomes do they change their way, the party splits, or they double down on being shits. And it’s also a matter of the sheep and who they turn to for leadership. We are in this mess because of them.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Wow. Just...wow. 









						Trump begs Georgia secretary of state to overturn election results in remarkable hourlong phone call
					

"There's no way I lost Georgia," Trump said. "There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."




					www.nbcnews.com
				






> *Trump begs Georgia secretary of state to overturn election results in remarkable, hourlong phone call*






> “There’s no way I lost Georgia,” Trump said. "There’s no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."






> Trump even suggested that Raffensperger may face criminal consequences should he refuse to intervene in accordance with Trump's wishes.






> Raffensperger and his office's general counsel, Ryan Germany, pushed back on the president's claims and said President-elect Joe Biden's victory of more than 12,700 votes was accurate.






> “The people of Georgia are angry, the people in the country are angry,” Trump said in the call. “And there’s nothing wrong with saying, you know, um, that you’ve recalculated.”






> "Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is, the data you have is wrong," Raffensperger responded.






> In a separate exchange, Trump said he wanted Raffensperger to "find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.”




How the hell is this not illegal? Soliciting a Secretary of State to find a way to change the result?

The second Trump’s out he needs to be charged with attempted election fraud.


----------



## The-Real-Deal82

I hope Biden has changed his mind on helping out the UK with trade agreements. Trump was promising to work out a trade deal with us and Biden made his opinions known he was pro EU. As much as I hate Trump and for purely selfish reasons for m6 country, I hope we get some support from our allies.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> Wow. Just...wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump begs Georgia secretary of state to overturn election results in remarkable hourlong phone call
> 
> 
> "There's no way I lost Georgia," Trump said. "There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell is this not illegal? Soliciting a Secretary of State to find a way to change the result?
> 
> The second Trump’s out he needs to be charged with attempted election fraud.



The pathetic sycophants in the WH need to be held accountable too. It’s obvious none of them are telling Trump: no you actually lost. The other sad thing is a lot of Trump voters believe the lies. Republican governors are telling them the election was valid, but now the Trump-lovers accuse those Republicans of being part of the conspiracy against Trump?


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> The other sad thing is a lot of Trump voters believe the lies.




This is the part I just cannot get my head around.   These Trump-disputed key states *were not lost by a handful of votes*. 

Okay so there is one House seat where the GOP margin was six or seven votes and the apparent winner was seated today even though an administrative committee in the House is properly considering an appeal to count 22 (or 21) contested votes for the Democrat.​
But that's not how the Presidential votes are adjudicated and that's not how it went anyway in Georgia, Pennsylvania, etc. -- *so not only did Trump not win those key states, he didn't even lose them by some tiny margin that could be wiped out in a recount.* 

 Yet he paid for recounts anyway, and then went to court again trying to get the judiciary to... well just to overturn the results and declare Trump the winner.  Sixty-odd court cases and a shedload of mockery later, he is still the loser... and doing stupid stuff like trying to threaten pols who refuse to entertain his delusion about the outcome.

OK so Trump may be delusional,  or else (more likely) thinks that losing an election is a personal humiliation too great to bear...  so this is part of his schtick for a post-presidential media campaign...    but it's really hard for me to understand that very many Americans can actually believe that he won at this point or that there was fraud at a level that could overturn the certified results.

Whatever happened to the usual response to a lost election:   "Damn, and I had $5 on my guy in the office pool".


----------



## SuperMatt

lizkat said:


> This is the part I just cannot get my head around.   These Trump-disputed key states *were not lost by a handful of votes*.
> 
> Okay so there is one House seat where the GOP margin was six or seven votes and the apparent winner was seated today even though an administrative committee in the House is properly considering an appeal to count 22 (or 21) contested votes for the Democrat.​
> But that's not how the Presidential votes are adjudicated and that's not how it went anyway in Georgia, Pennsylvania, etc. -- *so not only did Trump not win those key states, he didn't even lose them by some tiny margin that could be wiped out in a recount.*
> 
> Yet he paid for recounts anyway, and then went to court again trying to get the judiciary to... well just to overturn the results and declare Trump the winner.  Sixty-odd court cases and a shedload of mockery later, he is still the loser... and doing stupid stuff like trying to threaten pols who refuse to entertain his delusion about the outcome.
> 
> OK so Trump may be delusional,  or else (more likely) thinks that losing an election is a personal humiliation too great to bear...  so this is part of his schtick for a post-presidential media campaign...    but it's really hard for me to understand that very many Americans can actually believe that he won at this point or that there was fraud at a level that could overturn the certified results.
> 
> Whatever happened to the usual response to a lost election:   "Damn, and I had $5 on my guy in the office pool".



The education system in America must be broken. How else can we explain millions of people who can’t tell reality from fiction?


----------



## Eraserhead

SuperMatt said:


> The education system in America must be broken. How else can we explain millions of people who can’t tell reality from fiction?



A lot of those people were educated a long time ago when the education system was worse.


----------



## User.45

Thomas Veil said:


> Wow. Just...wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump begs Georgia secretary of state to overturn election results in remarkable hourlong phone call
> 
> 
> "There's no way I lost Georgia," Trump said. "There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell is this not illegal? Soliciting a Secretary of State to find a way to change the result?
> 
> The second Trump’s out he needs to be charged with attempted election fraud.



It's an impressive performance to get accusations against you proved at such a high rate.


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> The education system in America must be broken. How else can we explain millions of people who can’t tell reality from fiction?



Well it's broken all right but I think it's more about addiction to entertainment and celebrities.   So, about television.

Television outlets like Sinclair:  today on talk shows while other stations were listening to guests like Fauci etc.., Sinclair stations (the largest Fox News relay, reaching 40% of markets in the south, midwest and southwest) were re-airing a Trump town hall.



Eraserhead said:


> A lot of those people were educated a long time ago when the education system was worse.




But look at some of those Trump rallies, those are not all boomers or so-called silent generation folks older than the boomers...   and anyway I don't think it was worse a long time ago.  I think it was better in some aspects,  but far too limited in its reach across socioeconomic (so, racial / ethnic) and geopolitical groups in the USA. And that part has definitely not gotten better since the 90s and the culture wars kicked off then by the Republican Party.

Part of it is about money, and in some complicated ways.  About half of K-12 education in the USA is funded by property taxes.   But thanks to a SCOTUS ruling in 1974 (Milliken v Bradley),  a lot of the benefits to students and to the country that came out of desegregation after 1954 (Brown v Board of Ed)  have been rolled back.    This is because Milliken said that *where there's more than one school district in a county, property taxes in that district don't have to cross the district lines. *

And so then whammo, began the great divide where we now have predominantly white school districts getting about $23 billion more per year in funding than in mostly nonwhite districts. These variances are not all in the south either, where it can still be more common to have just one public school district per county, although private schools may be more prevalent there as a wealthy family's way of trying to improve basic education.

And then there's social change:  when the boomers grew up and acquired the original "me generation" tag,  suddenly when becoming parents they didn't feel like springing for what they had been given as a public investment in schooling.  Particularly after the Milliken ruling,  and aside from growing aversion to taxes in the Reagan era, they have tended to reject the idea that paying more to school someone else's kids is actually an investment.

Finally as to what the money buys:   You can provide good facilities and instruction to students but you cannot educate anyone unless the kid decides to want to learn.    So parenting, tutoring, and the socioeconomic associations there kick in:   can you work two jobs and oversee your kid's homework?  Afford a tutor?  Give a damn?

Throw in regional, cultural including religious influences, mix well, and yeah, education is a mixed bag in the USA.  I still think a lot of it is an American addiction to being entertained, and it spills over into a passive reactive attitude towards education.    Trump has manged to fit right in there.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> Wow. Just...wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump begs Georgia secretary of state to overturn election results in remarkable hourlong phone call
> 
> 
> "There's no way I lost Georgia," Trump said. "There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell is this not illegal? Soliciting a Secretary of State to find a way to change the result?
> 
> The second Trump’s out he needs to be charged with attempted election fraud.



Jan 21, start the grand jury process to indict him and his co-conspirators.


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> Jan 21, start the grand jury process to indict him and his co-conspirators.




He's gone too far for too long to ignore it.  It's not how one wants to launch a new administration but this version of the Republican Party is a bunch of fricken scofflaws and apparently think all you have to do if you don't like a law is to ignore it or just say what happened didn't happen.

What I want to know is how do the Republicans imagine they are the only ones can pull this kind of thing if the Democrats are expected to overlook it when the GOP does it?     McConnell seems to think his mission in life is to prevent Joe Biden from passing any legislation...  even with a narrow margin or even as a minority leader.  Where is this hubris coming from.  I don't get it.


----------



## Scepticalscribe

Thomas Veil said:


> Wow. Just...wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump begs Georgia secretary of state to overturn election results in remarkable hourlong phone call
> 
> 
> "There's no way I lost Georgia," Trump said. "There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell is this not illegal? Soliciting a Secretary of State to find a way to change the result?
> 
> The second Trump’s out he needs to be charged with attempted election fraud.




Yes.

Wow, just wow, was my reaction when I read this yesterday, also.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Remember, it isn't just the enablers IN the White House.  

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1345862162758184965/

There needs to be an accounting of those in & out of the WH.


----------



## Thomas Veil

I just read the transcript of the call. It’s fascinating—in the sense that Trump is weaving this tapestry of dead people voting, unoccupied addresses voting, votes being counted three times, others not at all...

You really need to read it. It’s rambling. Lots of rambling and wishful thinking about how it’s not _possible_ he lost Georgia! Not with the size of the rallies he had!

And as usual he goes on about Trump voters who were turned away and tampered Dominion machines, his “proof” being unsourced anecdotal stories.

It’s embarrassingly unhinged, like a child being told Santa Claus is not real and having a meltdown because he absolutely refuses to believe it. It’s really sad that because of the authority of the office, so many people are being forced to listen to his delusional jeremiads.


----------



## SuperMatt

There are many Trump voters who also say things like “yeah right 81 million ppl voted for Biden... just look at the size of Trump’s rallies...” I had a discussion with a guy who said ‘only people in big cities voted for Biden’ and simply wouldn’t believe it when it was pointed out that 80% of Americans live in urban areas, so he had to be given a link to the census website as proof.

There seems to be a tendency to almost blindly follow the leader. So when Trump says anything, they believe it without question. Pretty worrisome, but in history, is this pretty common behavior for us humans?


----------



## JayMysteri0

Thomas Veil said:


> I just read the transcript of the call. It’s fascinating—in the sense that Trump is weaving this tapestry of dead people voting, unoccupied addresses voting, votes being counted three times, others not at all...
> 
> You really need to read it. It’s rambling. Lots of rambling and wishful thinking about how it’s not _possible_ he lost Georgia! Not with the size of the rallies he had!
> 
> And as usual he goes on about Trump voters who were turned away and tampered Dominion machines, his “proof” being unsourced anecdotal stories.
> 
> It’s embarrassingly unhinged, like a child being told Santa Claus is not real and having a meltdown because he absolutely refuses to believe it. It’s really sad that because of the authority of the office, so many people are being forced to listen to his delusional jeremiads.



Sheepus Wrist!

That's a complete detachment of reality!  Rally sizes determine voting?

Fulton County is who he specifically wants to target?   

At least the basis of his claim about out of state voters is based on reality.  The reality that a Florida lawyer is being investigated for moving to Georgia to vote for 45.  Which makes sense since 45 has always been about projection.


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> There are many Trump voters who also say things like “yeah right 81 million ppl voted for Biden... just look at the size of Trump’s rallies...” I had a discussion with a guy who said ‘only people in big cities voted for Biden’ and simply wouldn’t believe it when it was pointed out that 80% of Americans live in urban areas, so he had to be given a link to the census website as proof.
> 
> There seems to be a tendency to almost blindly follow the leader. So when Trump says anything, they believe it without question. Pretty worrisome, but in history, is this pretty common behavior for us humans?




I'd just show them a map of their state that has county breakouts.  The New York Times has one.

Even in conservative districts and counties there were a bunch of people who "voted for the other guy"...  the Democrat... all over the USA.   In a lot of the red states in 2020 Biden typically took one out of three votes for president, so we're talking millions and millions of votes for Biden even in those areas.

In the very most Trump-favoring of all the rural upstate counties in New York State --Wyoming County just east of Buffalo-- Trump still only got 71% of the vote,   and *Biden picked up the votes of more than five thousand people in that one red county alone.* Plenty of Trump rallies hosted fewer than 5-8k fans. I distinctly remember one in Tulsa last summer had 6200 people in attendance. Forbes ran a piece that was making a big deal about the lack of masks...

But it's true that you can throw numbers at some Trump fans and their rebuttal is simply that that's not what Trump says.  But why do they think it's not even possible that someone decides to vote for "the other guy"?    This is the USA and we can vote for the candidate of our choice.  Wanting the guy we voted for to win is one thing but trying to say that he *had* to win because that's how it should be, or worse "that's how my guy said it turned out!" is just nuts.


----------



## Alli

I certainly hope this will destroy any plans that group of senators had to cause a ruckus on Wednesday. But they’re too greedy and selfish to do the right thing.


----------



## lizkat

That transcript was really something.   Trump is off his rocker. 

I'm amazed these guys in Georgia could keep their cool while he insults and cajoles and insinuates "dishonesty or incompetence"...  

He's got these numbers in his head now that he says he supposedly lost Georgia by,  but he wants to have won Georgia...  and so he figures he just needs Georgia officials to "come up with" that number of votes plus either two more or half a million more, he says, since winning is winning,  et voila, problem solved and he has won Georgia.   He's insane.



> *Raffensperger*: Mr. President, you have people that submit information, and we have our people that submit information. And then it comes before the court, and the court then has to make a determination. We have to stand by our numbers. We believe our numbers are right.
> 
> *Trump:* Why do you say that, though? I don’t know. I mean, sure, we can play this game with the courts, but why do you say that? First of all, they don’t even assign us a judge. They don’t even assign us a judge. But why wouldn’t you . . . Hey Brad, why wouldn’t you want to check out [name] ? And why wouldn’t you want to say, hey, if in fact, President Trump is right about that, then he wins the state of Georgia, just that one incident alone without going through hundreds of thousands of dropped ballots. You just say, you stick by, I mean I’ve been watching you, you know, you don’t care about anything. “Your numbers are right.” But your numbers aren’t right. They’re really wrong, and they’re really wrong, Brad. And I know this phone call is going nowhere other than, other than ultimately, you know — Look, ultimately, I win, okay? Because you guys are so wrong. And you treated this. You treated the population of Georgia so badly. You, between you and your governor, who is down at 21, he was down 21 points. And like a schmuck, I endorsed him, and he got elected, but I will tell you, he is a disaster. The people are so angry in Georgia, I can’t imagine he’s ever getting elected again, I’ll tell you that much right now. But why wouldn’t you want to find the right answer, Brad, instead of keep saying that the numbers are right? ’Cause those numbers are so wrong?







> *Germany:* I don’t know about that. I do know that we have, when military ballots come in, it’s not just military, it’s also military and overseas citizens. The military part of that does generally go Republican. The overseas citizen part of it generally goes very Democrat. This was a mix of ’em.
> 
> *Trump:* No, but this was. That’s okay. But I got like 78 percent of the military. These ballots were all for . . . They didn’t tell me overseas. Could be overseas, too, but I get votes overseas, too, Ryan, in all fairness. No they came in, a large batch came in, and it was, quote, 100 percent for Biden. And that is criminal. You know, that’s criminal. Okay. That’s another criminal, that’s another of the many criminal events, many criminal events here.
> 
> I don’t know, look, Brad. I got to get . . . I have to find 12,000 votes, and I have them times a lot. And therefore, I won the state. That’s before we go to the next step, which is in the process of right now. You know, and I watched you this morning, and you said, well, there was no criminality.
> 
> But I mean all of this stuff is very dangerous stuff. When you talk about no criminality, I think it’s very dangerous for you to say that.


----------



## Eraserhead

Alli said:


> I certainly hope this will destroy any plans that group of senators had to cause a ruckus on Wednesday. But they’re too greedy and selfish to do the right thing.



The thing is there’s now two states trump will be arrested on state charges - where in the second they will get a democratic AG if they don’t put Trump in jail.


----------



## Eraserhead

lizkat said:


> Well it's broken all right but I think it's more about addiction to entertainment and celebrities.   So, about television.
> 
> Television outlets like Sinclair:  today on talk shows while other stations were listening to guests like Fauci etc.., Sinclair stations (the largest Fox News relay, reaching 40% of markets in the south, midwest and southwest) were re-airing a Trump town hall.
> 
> 
> 
> But look at some of those Trump rallies, those are not all boomers or so-called silent generation folks older than the boomers...   and anyway I don't think it was worse a long time ago.  I think it was better in some aspects,  but far too limited in its reach across socioeconomic (so, racial / ethnic) and geopolitical groups in the USA. And that part has definitely not gotten better since the 90s and the culture wars kicked off then by the Republican Party.
> 
> Part of it is about money, and in some complicated ways.  About half of K-12 education in the USA is funded by property taxes.   But thanks to a SCOTUS ruling in 1974 (Milliken v Bradley),  a lot of the benefits to students and to the country that came out of desegregation after 1954 (Brown v Board of Ed)  have been rolled back.    This is because Milliken said that *where there's more than one school district in a county, property taxes in that district don't have to cross the district lines. *
> 
> And so then whammo, began the great divide where we now have predominantly white school districts getting about $23 billion more per year in funding than in mostly nonwhite districts. These variances are not all in the south either, where it can still be more common to have just one public school district per county, although private schools may be more prevalent there as a wealthy family's way of trying to improve basic education.
> 
> And then there's social change:  when the boomers grew up and acquired the original "me generation" tag,  suddenly when becoming parents they didn't feel like springing for what they had been given as a public investment in schooling.  Particularly after the Milliken ruling,  and aside from growing aversion to taxes in the Reagan era, they have tended to reject the idea that paying more to school someone else's kids is actually an investment.
> 
> Finally as to what the money buys:   You can provide good facilities and instruction to students but you cannot educate anyone unless the kid decides to want to learn.    So parenting, tutoring, and the socioeconomic associations there kick in:   can you work two jobs and oversee your kid's homework?  Afford a tutor?  Give a damn?
> 
> Throw in regional, cultural including religious influences, mix well, and yeah, education is a mixed bag in the USA.  I still think a lot of it is an American addiction to being entertained, and it spills over into a passive reactive attitude towards education.    Trump has manged to fit right in there.



Certainly here in the UK while the better schools have been good for a long time the poorer schools have improved from being dire to being a lot lot better over time.

That said it’s more about life attitude. If you take an approach to life that you need to learn as you go then schooling isn’t all that important. If you don’t then you can be pretty dumb and therefore susceptible to this stuff. There are plenty who went to even the best schools in that camp.

That said I think a bigger problem is the left failing to connect. There are plenty of perfectly nice older people who don’t believe in conspiracy theories who vote Republican/conservative because they always have any they aren’t that political.


----------



## Eric

lizkat said:


> That transcript was really something.   Trump is off his rocker.
> 
> I'm amazed these guys in Georgia could keep their cool while he insults and cajoles and insinuates "dishonesty or incompetence"...
> 
> He's got these numbers in his head now that he says he supposedly lost Georgia by,  but he wants to have won Georgia...  and so he figures he just needs Georgia officials to "come up with" that number of votes plus either two more or half a million more, he says, since winning is winning,  et voila, problem solved and he has won Georgia.   He's insane.



Trump has always has a propensity to say wild things but this is the first time I've actually heard him sound like a really crazy person so out of touch with reality. Right now it's taking a lot to make the people say "wow" but Trump has managed to do it here.


----------



## Huntn

Thomas Veil said:


> Wow. Just...wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump begs Georgia secretary of state to overturn election results in remarkable hourlong phone call
> 
> 
> "There's no way I lost Georgia," Trump said. "There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell is this not illegal? Soliciting a Secretary of State to find a way to change the result?
> 
> The second Trump’s out he needs to be charged with attempted election fraud.



_There’d be nothing wrong with recalculating. _What a FUCKING POS,  he needs some jail time for desperately needed perspective. It would be for his own good.


----------



## lizkat

Here's a clear explanation of what's happening,   Most of us get what would ensue if we pulled Trump's stunt at a bank.





​


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Thomas Veil said:


> Wow. Just...wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump begs Georgia secretary of state to overturn election results in remarkable hourlong phone call
> 
> 
> "There's no way I lost Georgia," Trump said. "There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nbcnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell is this not illegal? Soliciting a Secretary of State to find a way to change the result?
> 
> The second Trump’s out he needs to be charged with attempted election fraud.




Un oh, some Republicans have pulled out the big guns and called this "Deeply troubling".  Trump better hope they don't evaluate it to "Unbecoming of folks" status.  It would add this event to Trump supporters' list of "I don't agree with everything he does" that still won't keep them from supporting him.


----------



## Eric

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Un oh, some Republicans have pulled out the big guns and called this "Deeply troubling".  Trump better hope they don't evaluate it to "Unbecoming of folks" status.  It would add this event to Trump supporters' list of "I don't agree with everything he does" that still won't keep them from supporting him.



CNN said they asked some Republicans at Mike Pence's rally what they thought and many said they haven't even heard about it yet. Sounds like mum's the word over at Fox.


----------



## JayMysteri0

ericgtr12 said:


> CNN said they asked some Republicans at Mike Pence's rally what they thought and many said they haven't even heard about it yet. Sounds like mum's the word over at Fox.



I swear r congress people are the most uninformed individuals about what the head of their party & leader of the free world say, that the 'fake' MSM has to keep cluing them in on.   

Or... that's literal the weakest excuse in the world, demonstrating the laziness of the r's.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

ericgtr12 said:


> CNN said they asked some Republicans at Mike Pence's rally what they thought and many said they haven't even heard about it yet. Sounds like mum's the word over at Fox.




The spin I’ve heard from the Republicans popping their heads out of Trump’s rear orifice to weigh in is that the real outrage here is that the call was recorded and released, nothing about the content of the call should get people angry.  It’s very unfolksy to air folk’s private business, I guess even when it’s in fact public business.


----------



## Thomas Veil

JayMysteri0 said:


> I swear r congress people are the most uninformed individuals about what the head of their party & leader of the free world say, that the 'fake' MSM has to keep cluing them in on.
> 
> Or... that's literal the weakest excuse in the world, demonstrating the laziness of the r's.



Well if they "hadn't heard about it" before, they sure have now. This story has exploded all over the news.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Thomas Veil said:


> Well if they "hadn't heard about it" before, they sure have now. This story has exploded all over the news.




I’ve determined the only thing that would pause Trump supporter’s support would be a picture of him in a covid mask shaking hands with AOC while taking a dump on the confederate flag. I say pause support because they’ll be back in full support as someone tells them the real evil person is the person who took the photo and posted it.


----------



## Zoidberg

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I’ve determined the only thing that would pause Trump supporter’s support would be a picture of him in a covid mask shaking hands with AOC while taking a dump on the confederate flag. I say pause support because they’ll be back in full support as someone tells them the real evil person is the person who took the photo and posted it.



They would say that AOC made him do it, and he sacrificed himself for the American people. Or they would just deny it.


----------



## Zoidberg

French newspaper Le Monde has published a graph that shows how close Trump came to winning the election.

If he had flipped just 32507 votes in Arizona, Georgia, Wisconsin and in Nebraska 2 (shown in red) he would have actually won the electoral college.


----------



## SuperMatt

despondentdiver said:


> French newspaper Le Monde has published a graph that shows how close Trump came to winning the election.
> 
> If he had flipped just 32507 votes in Arizona, Georgia, Wisconsin and in Nebraska 2 (shown in red) he would have actually won the electoral college.
> View attachment 2387



What a garbage election system we have. President should be national popular vote, period. The electoral college was devised by slave holders... it has no place in a society free of slavery.


----------



## lizkat

Thomas Veil said:


> Well if they "hadn't heard about it" before, they sure have now. This story has exploded all delover the news.




They still won't have heard about it if it's politically expedient not to comment on it.

It's just R-speak for "no comment because I'm afraid of Trump and his base in my district,  or I'm afraid of getting in between Trump and not-his-base in my district."     Zero political courage, and this immediately after having been sworn into office, not weeks before an election...  it's weeks since they WON their seats.  WTF.  ?!

And now it's also just weeks before Trump is merely a private citizen facing a raft of legal difficulties.

What idiocy, really.

It beggars all past limits of imagination that we could possibly have ended up living like this, at the daily or hourly whim of a delusional narcissist like Trump for two months after a presidential election. 

I daily become more interested in how the _*immediate change of governmen*_t in a parliamentary system is effected after a strong majority wins an election. Do the outgoing officials just clear out their personal possessions and leave the last addressed bits of work lying on their desks? Maybe we should try it...


----------



## SuperMatt

Michelle Goldberg in The NY Times:



> During impeachment, Republicans who were unwilling to defend the president’s conduct, but also unwilling to penalize him, insisted that if Americans didn’t like his behavior they could vote him out. Americans did, and now Trump’s party is refusing to accept it. It’s evidence that you can’t rely on elections to punish attempts to subvert elections. Only the law can do that, even if it’s inconvenient.


----------



## DT

Loeffler:  ~"I plan to undermine the democratic process !"

Crowd:  <cheers!>


Fucking clowns.  Her, the people at that rally, hahaha, one of the new Head Clowns at TOP, Southern Dad ...


----------



## Scepticalscribe

lizkat said:


> They still won't have heard about it if it's politically expedient not to comment on it.
> 
> It's just R-speak for "no comment because I'm afraid of Trump and his base in my district,  or I'm afraid of getting in between Trump and not-his-base in my district."     Zero political courage, and this immediately after having been sworn into office, not weeks before an election...  it's weeks since they WON their seats.  WTF.  ?!
> 
> And now it's also just weeks before Trump is merely a private citizen facing a raft of legal difficulties.
> 
> What idiocy, really.
> 
> It beggars all past limits of imagination that we could possibly have ended up living like this, at the daily or hourly whim of a delusional narcissist like Trump for two months after a presidential election.
> 
> I daily become more interested in how the _*immediate change of governmen*_t in a parliamentary system is effected after a strong majority wins an election. Do the outgoing officials just clear out their personal possessions and leave the last addressed bits of work lying on their desks? Maybe we should try it...




In parliamentary systems, - or, in much of western Europe - you tend to have a career civil, or public, service.

They are recruited by (very, very, very competitive) public, or state, exams (and yes, there is also internal promotion, also by exam and interview).

So, they are not political appointees, but rather, are recruited by an independent (of the political process) commission which oversees and implements appointments and standards.

Thus, when there is a change of administration, there isn't usually a "clear out" of officials, as these are career - professional - public servants; rather, they remain in office no matter who has been elected.

In fact, if anything, they tend to have very strong security of tenure, or job security.  It is very difficult for a politician to fire a permanent member of the civil service, and they must have excellent grounds for doing so, grounds that can be (and have been) challenged in court.   Resignations are not unknown, however, or requests - on the part of a civil, or public servant - to be transferred to another government department (especially if a minister and a senior civil servant clash, the sort of clash that is a mix of the personal, political and professional).

Instead, their loyalty is to the state, and they serve the state, and whatever administration - irrespective of political hue, colour, or political complexion, that has been elected to govern the state.

Their task is to give expert, informed, objective, but "disinterested" advice - sometimes, advice of the "but, this is not possible or appropriate, Minister, because this is not legal," variety, - and guidance to the politicians who run the respective government departments, and to run the bureaucracy, and implement policy and decisions once taken.

However, it is for the politicians to accept, reject, or amend that advice, and for the politicians to govern, and to detect & deal with potential political landmines (often assisted by political advisors, from their respective political parties).

That doesn't mean that they (the civil servants, or senior civil, or public, servants) don't have political preferences, or views, but they tend to pretty discreet about such matters.

Given that most western European countries have an electoral system based on a system of proportional representation, - which means parties tend to receive seats in pretty close approximation to the percentage of votes, and hence, support, they receive from the electorate - these days, governments are rarely formed immediately after an election, - as no one party will receive or enjoy a majority of votes cast (or seats distributed).

This is because most elections give rise to coalition administrations, which mean lengthy negotiations and thus, government formation only after many compromises re composition of the administration, and re portfolios and policies; rather, the outgoing administration will remain in office in an acting capacity until the new administration has been sworn into office.

However, after a strong majority (which is very very rare) is won, the transfer of power depends on the time frame set out by law and or tradition in that specific country.

In the UK, if the electoral outcome is clear, the change of government occurs the day after the election.

In Ireland, by law, the new parliament sits three weeks after the election, which is when - if the outcome is clear - a new government will take their seats and be formally sworn into office.    If not, and this is more the European norm, - and has become the norm in Ireland, in recent decades, too, the parliament will sit, fail to vote a prime minister into office, and request that the House be suspended for another fortnight as negotiations are taking place on possible government formation.   It will then meet a fortnight later and either vote the new administration into office, or request a further suspension of the House, for a further fortnight or three weeks, in order to conclude whatever political negotiations re government formation are taking place.

In all of this, the civil service, or public service, or state bureaucracy, remain where they are.  Their posts, or positions, are secure, and do not depend on whim, political perspective, or a change of government.


----------



## JayMysteri0

> Trump introduces Kelly Loeffler as 'Karen' at Senate rally in Georgia
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump introduced Kelly Loeffler as 'Karen' during a Senate runoff rally in Georgia Monday night. 'A very fine woman, Karen, who you know,' Trump said, while gesturing toward Loeffler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk



Okay, maybe it's just me who thinks it's BOTH fitting & hilarious that 45 introduces Loeffler as Karen.


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> Okay, maybe it's just me who thinks it's BOTH fitting & hilarious that 45 introduces Loeffler as Karen.





Meanwhile on Facebook last week, Loeffler threw about $40-45k into ads with *retouched* clips of Warnock --portraying him as a blacker Black than he is.  On the same day in another Facebook ad, into which she plowed only $4-5k,  she used unretouched photos and the theme of hat one was "Too Corrupt. Too Radical." 

But the theme of the ad with the darker toned clips of Warnock was "Beyond Radical" and that ad wrapped up with the tag line "Warnock isn't just radical — he's dangerous."










						Kelly Loeffler's new Facebook ad darkens skin of Black opponent
					

The campaign spent 10 times as much boosting the ad as it did on another ad the same day that used untouched clips




					www.salon.com


----------



## SuperMatt

Idiots coming into DC trying to sneak guns by the cops. People are being warned to stay away from the WH the next few days.



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/05/parler-telegram-violence-dc-protests/


----------



## lizkat

As for the whole brouhaha about the joint session of Congress upcoming tomorrow, when the Biden-Harris win finally gets its formal recognition.... below is a very fine example of *how it's supposed to work* on January 6th...  even when the guy presiding over the session happens to be one of the losing candidates himself.   Just a little playbook on graciousness for Mikey:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346488839179796480/


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> Idiots coming into DC trying to sneak guns by the cops. People are being warned to stay away from the WH the next few days.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/05/parler-telegram-violence-dc-protests/



I said this early on.  When 45 pretty much abandoned the WH while seeking ways to stay in it, he was constantly tweeting to his more aggressive followers to protest in DC on the 6th.   EVERYONE knew who 45 was signaling to.  Which is why the police was supposed to be getting ramped up.

And Black Churches putting a formal call into the police...


> Churches in Washington DC Request Police Protection Ahead of Pro-Trump Protest, File Lawsuit Against Proud Boys Over Vandalism During Previous Protest
> 
> 
> A group of churches in Washington DC has requested local police provide extra protection ahead of a protest against the election results scheduled for later this week. How’s that saying go again? New year, same old bullshit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theroot.com




Everyone knows the orange @$$clown isn't going out without a tantrum.  Only any kind of meaningful tantrum involves legal consequences, and the buffoon knows a few hundred thousand idiots, so....


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

lizkat said:


> They still won't have heard about it if it's politically expedient not to comment on it.
> 
> It's just R-speak for "no comment because I'm afraid of Trump and his base in my district,  or I'm afraid of getting in between Trump and not-his-base in my district."     Zero political courage, and this immediately after having been sworn into office, not weeks before an election...  it's weeks since they WON their seats.  WTF.  ?!
> 
> And now it's also just weeks before Trump is merely a private citizen facing a raft of legal difficulties.
> 
> What idiocy, really.
> 
> It beggars all past limits of imagination that we could possibly have ended up living like this, at the daily or hourly whim of a delusional narcissist like Trump for two months after a presidential election.
> 
> I daily become more interested in how the _*immediate change of governmen*_t in a parliamentary system is effected after a strong majority wins an election. Do the outgoing officials just clear out their personal possessions and leave the last addressed bits of work lying on their desks? Maybe we should try it...




A lot of rules and laws should be changed after the rampant abuse of power by Trump and McConnell over the last 4 years but I have no faith they will because even those on the losing end of the stick now hope to someday wield the same abuses of power.  Even something as obvious as not being able to pardon anybody convicted of committing a crime on your behalf probably won't get introduced which can't be translated any other way other than rewarding corruption.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> I said this early on.  When 45 pretty much abandoned the WH while seeking ways to stay in it, he was constantly tweeting to his more aggressive followers to protest in DC on the 6th.   EVERYONE knew who 45 was signaling to.  Which is why the police was supposed to be getting ramped up.
> 
> And Black Churches putting a formal call into the police...
> 
> 
> Everyone knows the orange @$$clown isn't going out without a tantrum.  Only any kind of meaningful tantrum involves legal consequences, and the buffoon knows a few hundred thousand idiots, so....



The hotel they all stayed at last time (Harrington) is closed for the week. I imagine it’s probably not even political... I bet you these folks probably trashed their rooms and it wasn’t worth it to stay open.


----------



## Thomas Veil

SuperMatt said:


> Idiots coming into DC trying to sneak guns by the cops. People are being warned to stay away from the WH the next few days.






JayMysteri0 said:


> ...he was constantly tweeting to his more aggressive followers to protest in DC on the 6th.   EVERYONE knew who 45 was signaling to.  Which is why the police was supposed to be getting ramped up.
> 
> And Black Churches putting a formal call into the police...




Just the idea that the far right is coming to Washington is enough to instill fear in people. 

I hope (though don't expect) that Antifa protesters will be smart enough to stay away and let these idiots be the ones to earn all the bad press and busted heads.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> Just the idea that the far right is coming to Washington is enough to instill fear in people.
> 
> I hope (though don't expect) that Antifa protesters will be smart enough to stay away and let these idiots be the ones to earn all the bad press and busted heads.



They’ve already stated they will wear all black so they will match the typical Antifa outfit. So, they could fight each other and still blame Antifa? Sad and pathetic. Good news - it is fairly cold (not frigid unfortunately) in DC so maybe that will keep people away.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Thomas Veil said:


> Just the idea that the far right is coming to Washington is enough to instill fear in people.
> 
> I hope (though don't expect) that Antifa protesters will be smart enough to stay away and let these idiots be the ones to earn all the bad press and busted heads.



That was the brewing suspicion that this is some kind of pretext to justify calling the military.

The hopes that an ANTIFA that's been pretty silent of late, will suddenly come out and chaos breaks out between both sides while 45 is safely in Florida tweeting about it.


----------



## Thomas Veil

I'm _reasonably _sure that if Trump (or his zombie horde) tries to drum up some kind of phony pretext for bringing in the military, such as chaos in the streets of DC, the military will resist.

I won't rest comfortably, however, until 12:01 pm on Jan. 20th.


----------



## lizkat

Thomas Veil said:


> I just read the transcript of the call. It’s fascinating—in the sense that Trump is weaving this tapestry of dead people voting, unoccupied addresses voting, votes being counted three times, others not at all...
> 
> You really need to read it. It’s rambling. Lots of rambling and wishful thinking about how it’s not _possible_ he lost Georgia! Not with the size of the rallies he had!
> 
> And as usual he goes on about Trump voters who were turned away and tampered Dominion machines, his “proof” being unsourced anecdotal stories.
> 
> It’s embarrassingly unhinged, like a child being told Santa Claus is not real and having a meltdown because he absolutely refuses to believe it. It’s really sad that because of the authority of the office, so many people are being forced to listen to his delusional jeremiads.




Some fallout of that insane call by Trump to the Georgia election officials trying to pressure them to "find" 11k votes for him is that his attorney Cleta Mitchell has ended up having to resign from her law firm.   File under "well that was gonna happen"...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346608924557004800/


----------



## SuperMatt

lizkat said:


> Some fallout of that insane call by Trump to the Georgia election officials trying to pressure them to "find" 11k votes for him is that his attorney Cleta Mitchell has ended up having to resign from her law firm.   File under "well that was gonna happen"...
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346608924557004800/



Boohoo... she is now pretending to be victim of a “witch hunt” by the evil liberals.


----------



## User.45

lizkat said:


> Some fallout of that insane call by Trump to the Georgia election officials trying to pressure them to "find" 11k votes for him is that his attorney Cleta Mitchell has ended up having to resign from her law firm.   File under "well that was gonna happen"...
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346608924557004800/



it's a good read.


SuperMatt said:


> Boohoo... she is now pretending to be victim of a “witch hunt” by the evil liberals.



"During the special counsel’s investigation of the Trump campaign’s ties to Russian election interference, several firms told their top white-collar lawyers that if they wanted to represent the president, they would have to quit."


----------



## JayMysteri0

You know you are on the side of right, when you don't have to threaten your allies to support you
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346646357071835141/


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> You know you are on the side of right, when you don't have to threaten your allies to support you
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346646357071835141/



I've never seen him this desperate.


----------



## lizkat

P_X said:


> I've never seen him this desperate.




Yeah well he's probably wondering if he stashed away enough lawyer money or will daddy share some of his take from the cult's "overthrow the election results" contributions.

I'm more interested in seeing how Fox (Hannity, for instance) will see things after the inauguration of Biden.

EDIT:   lol just seeing how Fox looks at the Georgia elections is pretty funny...  they are covering events in Hong Kong tonight instead.     So typical!


----------



## Thomas Veil

lizkat said:


> Some fallout of that insane call by Trump to the Georgia election officials trying to pressure them to "find" 11k votes for him is that his attorney Cleta Mitchell has ended up having to resign from her law firm.   File under "well that was gonna happen"...
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346608924557004800/



Yeah, well, actions have consequences. Treasonous actions have professional ones.

So boo-fucking-hoo.


----------



## Alli




----------



## DT

Pence defies Trump, affirms Biden's win
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — Vice President Mike Pence defied President Donald Trump early Thursday morning as he affirmed President-elect Joe Biden’s November victory, putting an end to Trump’s futile efforts to subvert American democracy and overturn the results of the election...




					apnews.com
				












						Pence breaks with Trump on Electoral College role
					

Vice President Mike Pence on Wednesday publicly broke with President Donald Trump, the boss he's served obsequiously for four years, saying he cannot submit to demands he overthrow the results of the election.




					www.cnn.com
				





Pence formalized his views in a letter to lawmakers, declaring he has no "unilateral authority to decide presidential contests" and could not change the results of the election.
"It is my considered judgement that my oath to support and defend the Constitution constrains me from claiming unilateral authority to determine which electoral votes should be counted and which should not," he wrote.

He ended his letter: "So Help Me God."


----------



## Huntn

Just how desperate and pathetic are these people, Congressional politicians who support Trump? I missed McConnell’s speech, and Holy Shit he has a line he won’t cross to support Mr. CORRUPT.

I did listen to Senator Cruze, in his words, 30% of Americans right or wrong feel the the election was rigged. The punch line? Our POS President instilled this feeling into his Dummies.

And now, according to Cruze, let’s take the election results which are basic math numbers, introduce them into a political body so we can investigate, and then vote our partisan preference reducing the votes of 150 millions to a political vote in Congress. Nope not going to happen.


----------



## DT

This is insane, there needs to be some kind of military support.  Is everyone watching what's happening at the capitol??


----------



## fooferdoggie

Where is trump and his bible when you need him?


----------



## Huntn

DT said:


> This is insane, there needs to be some kind of military support.  Is everyone watching what's happening at the capitol??




*The Patriots Shithead Trump Idiots  Storm The Capital.*
Several comments:

WHAT A NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT!  
These people who stormed the Capital are not Patriots, but selfish, stupid babies, they deserved to be arrested and convicited.
The Capital Police blew it, they should have been ready for a mob the DC Guard should of been deployed and ready. Did Trump hinder this?
Trump, what can you say about him? A COMPLETE AND TOTAL BANKRUPT FAILURE. His rally, he told his followers to March on the Capital. Whose idea to storm it?
And later, his video message to his followers was pure _want his cake and eat it too _Trump style garbage. _The election was stolen, it sucks, but go home in peace._ This from the big brained, stable genius. 
I’m very happy that Police did not open up with their guns on these people, it would have made it worse for the country, but the preparations for a mob were obviously inadequate.
But take a moment and imagine what would have happened if this had been a mob of African Americans?


----------



## SuperMatt

Huntn said:


> *The Patriots Shithead Trump Idiots  Storm The Capital.*
> Several comments:
> 
> WHAT A NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT!
> These people who stormed the Capital are not Patriots, but selfish, stupid babies, they deserved to be arrested and convicited.
> The Capital Police blew it, they should have been ready, the DC Guard should of been deployed and ready. Did Trump hinder this?
> Trump, what can you say about him? A COMPLETE AND TOTAL BANKRUPT FAILURE. His rally, he told his followers to March on the Capital. Whose idea to storm it?
> And later, his video message to his followers was pure _want his cake and eat it too _Trump style garbage. _The election was stolen, it sucks, but go home in peace._ This from the big brained, stable genius.
> I’m very happy that Police did not open up with their guns on these people, it would have made it worse for the country, but the preparations for a mob were obviously inadequate.
> But take a moment and imagine what would have happened if this had been a mob of African Americans?



They had many, many heavily armed military members out for the BLM protests. Different rules for white terrorists vs. peaceful black people.


----------



## Huntn

*8:40 US Eastern Time- *What a spectacle in Congress as Congressional Republicans turn on Trump! He finally did it, crossed the line, encouraged his ________s to march on the Capital Building, including his other henchmen, who have been insinuating/advocating violence as an acceptable solution to Donny’s_ I don’t like losing _fetish_,_ his _I will overthrow our Democracy if I can secure the win, executing a coup of the United States Government_, happy ending, right? 

THIS IS AMAZING.

And the sick _____ thought his rally today along with the machinations of certain Congressional Republicans was going to save him or at least give him a populace platform to move to 2024. What a dope. Maybe they will impeach Donny. Nah, I don’t believe it, but it would be the icing on the _____ You and Good Riddance _Donald Trump Cake. And there is always the Southern District of New York.


----------



## Huntn

Based on today’s spectacle, the violent invasion of the US Capital Building by Trump supporters, be prepared for the inappropriate, over the top comparisons with BLM protests. I’ll say one thing, there is a difference when marching for your civil rights and marching to execute a coup of the US Govt.  This is not an exaggeration. The sad thing is that those people were suckers, believing Trump lies and putting themselves in legal jeopardy for a sociopath who makes a habit of using his victems.


----------



## Thomas Veil

There have been comparisons, but the ones I’ve seen today involved asking why black people get shot for a lot less than this, but these white fuckers are allowed to overrun the Capitol.

Which is a really, really, really good question.


----------



## Huntn

Thomas Veil said:


> There have been comparisons, but the ones I’ve seen today involved asking why black people get shot for a lot less than this, but these white fuckers are allowed to overrun the Capitol.
> 
> Which is a really, really, really good question.



I will say that Capital Police appeared to be drastically outnumbered, which might have been one reason, yet the both questions  remain about 1) black vs white protestors and 2) where was the guard?   I imagine the Capitol being surrounded by DCGuard, or at a minimum they’d be stationed on the mall, ready to go at the first sign of trouble.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Yes. A white angry delusional crowd is just expressing their first Amendment rights, but a black angry crowd with justifiable grievances is a threat to America.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## SuperMatt

theSeb said:


> It's time for some hard questions and answers:
> 
> - Why was the police presence on the ground so ill-prepared and inadequate. I cannot believe it just due to incompetence.
> - Why were police officers shaking hands with some of the protestors and taking selfies with them?
> - Why did it take so long to deploy the national guard?
> - I believe that Trump enjoys support from the police forces across the US in general. Was this something that contributed to the situation?



1. DHS should have prepared for this. They are led by Trump loyalists. What do you think?
2. Time and time again, people point out the rampant racism among many police officers. They continually deny it, but you cannot deny what you saw yesterday.
3. DoD, led by Trump loyalists, refused to respond to Pelosi. It took the mayor of DC and governors of MD and VA who have the power to deploy them to act.
4. Racism is rampant among many police officers. They love Trump.

In short, racist cops and Trump loyalists in key national security positions led to this.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Huntn

theSeb said:


> It's time for some hard questions and answers:
> 
> - Why was the police presence on the ground so ill-prepared and inadequate. I cannot believe it just due to incompetence.
> - Why were police officers shaking hands with some of the protestors and taking selfies with them?
> - Why did it take so long to deploy the national guard?
> - I believe that Trump enjoys support from the police forces across the US in general. Was this something that contributed to the situation?



Frankly it’s unbelievable that the Guard was not deployed on the morning of the last _Bend Over and Pity Me As I Screw You _Trump Rally. Now if you were to tell me that that Trump hindered the Guard, no surprise there.


----------



## SuperMatt

Locals were warned to stay way from the “protest” due to possible violence. Police arrested the leader of the Proud Boys. The Harrington hotel closed rather than allow these terrorists to stay there. And yet, the Capitol police were caught totally flat footed? Their sergeant-at-arms has been let go, and from the videos I saw, many of the other officers should be unemployed soon too... although we know how hard it is to hold police officers accountable for anything.


----------



## Huntn

SuperMatt said:


> Locals were warned to stay way from the “protest” due to possible violence. Police arrested the leader of the Proud Boys. The Harrington hotel closed rather than allow these terrorists to stay there. And yet, the Capitol police were caught totally flat footed? Their sergeant-at-arms has been let go, and from the videos I saw, many of the other officers should be unemployed soon too... although we know how hard it is to hold police officers accountable for anything.



There are rumors that some of them, Capital Police, Trump supporters, allowed people in and even gave them directions. That’s unverified. And I want to know what role Trumpism played in the delayed deployment of the Guard. When you listen to the statements from Trump, Guiliani, and Shit Jr, as in _fight, combat, we’re coming for you,_ it is inconceivable that these people are not charged with sedition.


----------



## SuperMatt

Huntn said:


> There are rumors that some of them, Capital Police, Trump supporters, allowed people in and even gave them directions. That’s unverified. And I want to know what role Trumpism played in the delayed deployment of the Guard. When you listen to the statements from Trump, Guiliani, and Shit Jr, as in _fight, combat, we’re coming for you,_ it is inconceivable that these people are not charged with sedition.



Give it a couple weeks. They need to be dealt with harshly. Sorry, this is not a Democrat or Republican issue. This is a violent coup attempt, incited by a sitting President. He and everybody involved can be prosecuted.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Huntn

One good thing about the Trump crowd, at least we can identify who the flagrantly stupid and dangerous live among us are.  In the future they would be good candidates to shuffle on a space ship, to go find their destinies in some other corner of the Galaxy.


----------



## Huntn

One Tricksey  Hobbitsey...
There was a discussion in the other place about Trump making jokes and as I said Micheal Cohen calls it talking in code. For example when Trump asks a State Official to commit voter fraud, he does not say “commit fraud”, “falsify votes”, instead he says “find 11000 votes”. In this way later when it blows up in his face, he can deny he asked for fraud, was just urging the official to work harder.

How would a jury react to this? Generally speaking for everything outside the realm of enriching himself, Trump is one careless, self absorbed dumb shit, but specifically when it comes to corruption, deflection, furture plausible deniability,, he has his coding of words well sorted out as he has had decades of experience with deceit.

If I sat on his jury it would be an easy Guilty verdict.  

Tape reveals Trump asked official to 'find' votes to overturn election​


			Tape reveals Trump asked official to 'find' votes to overturn election
		


In a phone call with the Georgia's Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, President Donald Trump asks for more than 11,000 votes to be found that would flip the state to Trump. A string of recounts, audits and legal cases have affirmed Biden's narrow victory in Georgia in November in 2020. CNN's Joe Johns reports.


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> f I sat on his jury it would be an easy Guilty verdict.gu




Yeah.  For all the pro Trump folks there are in this country, there are a lot of people who could not give Trump a fair hearing, and I'm one of them.

I experienced what I assume are the rather long odds of being empaneled for voir dire in two difference instances of jury duty to sit on a civil court case where Trump was being sued.   I had to step outside and recuse myself to the attorneys both times on honest grounds I could not have given his side of the case an impartial take on whatever evidence his defense was going to provide.

 It's not that I thought it impossible for someone to sue Trump just figuring where there's a fat cat there must be cream.   It's that he always had a reputation for stiffing contractors and providing crap equipment and for countersuing at the drop of a hat.   I was not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because I figured he'd run out of the entire city's jury pools' worth of "benefit of the doubt" insde his first year in business...


----------



## Huntn

Keep in mind this fact, when Hillary lost and the Miscreant won, Hillary supporters, Never-Trumpers, the sane adults sucked it up, held their noses, puked their guts up, some cried like babies, but they took it like adults because we live under a Democratic Republic and the people spoke.

Now after 4 years of hypocritical, racist Maga-Trumpism with the shoe on the other foot, cause and effect, rejection of incompetence and corruption, that resulted in the loss of a legitimate Presidential election for Mr Trump.

Then we witnessed him and his team, family members and henchmen, some Republicans in Congress advocating for insurrection, followed by a group of thousands who carried out his wishes and assaulted the Capital building, threatening everyone in it including all of Congress and the Vice President. That should be jail time without a doubt. We can debate who is legally at risk, the spectrum of accountability.

How would you categorize a group of people who decided that Democracy that does not go their way, should be trashed, destroying the United States of America, installing it’s first dictator?

I’m my view DISGUSTING, SHAMEFUL, and now there are rumors of “armed” events possibly violent events at all State Capitols on Inaguration day and it does make me wonder just how close we are to a civil war?

My guess is the vast majority do not want to see the country sink into a Civil War and there will not be broad support for tearing down our Republic. Frankly, it will cost too much at all levels.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Huntn

theSeb said:


> We must remember the zip ties, the guns, the bombs and the guillotines. This could have turned into something else very quickly.



Be prepared certainly opens a lot of bad possibilities.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Ah, so when the courts are used against the election fraud screamers, they go with the "Fox News is actually entertainment" legal strategy...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1374100890181902340/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1374103466038157315/


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> Ah, so when the courts are used against the election fraud screamers, they go with the "Fox News is actually entertainment" legal strategy...
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1374100890181902340/
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1374103466038157315/





It's a fun read, and not only because you can learn words like _vituperative, _but also because of the motion's heavy reliance on the the judgement of so called "reasonable people". They inadvertently manage to point out the issue with Fox's viewership


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

I'm sure Q will come forward and straighten out this whole mess.


----------



## Yoused

JayMysteri0 said:


> Ah, so when the courts are used against the election fraud screamers, they go with the "Fox News is actually entertainment" legal strategy...
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1374100890181902340/
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1374103466038157315/



The filing keeps talking about "a reasonable person", ignoring the reality that there are about eight of those in the entire US.


----------



## Yoused

Park Cannon, a dark-skinned Georgia state legislator, was arrested for something or other for knocking (loudly, it would seem) on the door of the room where the governor was signing the disenfranchisement bill into law.



			Park Cannon: Georgia state lawmaker arrested protesting voting restriction bill outside governor's office
		


Just too damn many voices they do not want to hear.


----------



## User.45

Yoused said:


> Park Cannon, a dark-skinned Georgia state legislator, was arrested for something or other for knocking (loudly, it would seem) on the door of the room where the governor was signing the disenfranchisement bill into law.
> 
> 
> 
> Park Cannon: Georgia state lawmaker arrested protesting voting restriction bill outside governor's office
> 
> 
> 
> Just too damn many voices they do not want to hear.



Is it only I who sees some deeeeeeeep irony about this, vs the attitude towards the Capitol Insurrectionists?


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Florida GOP Introduces Ballotless Voting In Disenfranchised Communities
					

TALLAHASSEE, FL—In an effort to streamline the state’s electoral process, Florida Republicans introduced a new bill to the legislature Thursday that would establish ballotless voting in disenfranchised communities. “We’ve eliminated the complex and insecure process of casting a ballot so that...




					politics.theonion.com


----------



## SuperMatt

P_X said:


> Is it only I who sees some deeeeeeeep irony about this, vs the attitude towards the Capitol Insurrectionists?



A couple thousand violent extremists smashing windows and assaulting and killing police officers.... still less threatening to the holders of white power than a single black woman knocking on the Governor’s door. Stacy Abrams is gonna be moving in there in 2 years.... goodbye white supremacists.


----------



## Huntn

Yoused said:


> Park Cannon, a dark-skinned Georgia state legislator, was arrested for something or other for knocking (loudly, it would seem) on the door of the room where the governor was signing the disenfranchisement bill into law.
> 
> 
> 
> Park Cannon: Georgia state lawmaker arrested protesting voting restriction bill outside governor's office
> 
> 
> 
> Just too damn many voices they do not want to hear.



I want to hear what she was charged with. This is a wrongful arrest, the State maybe liable.


----------



## Yoused

Huntn said:


> I want to hear what she was charged with. This is a wrongful arrest, the State maybe liable.



from the linked story,
*Cannon faces two felony charges – felony obstruction and preventing or disrupting general assembly session, according to an arrest affidavit seen by CNN. The affidavit states that Cannon was charged with disrupting General Assembly session because she “knowingly and intentionally did by knocking the governor’s door during session of singing [sic] a bill.”*​


----------



## User.45

Yoused said:


> from the linked story,
> *Cannon faces two felony charges – felony obstruction and preventing or disrupting general assembly session, according to an arrest affidavit seen by CNN. The affidavit states that Cannon was charged with disrupting General Assembly session because she “knowingly and intentionally did by knocking the governor’s door during session of singing [sic] a bill.”*​



What a fucking joke.


----------



## SuperMatt

At the next election, thousands of people need to come out and hand out water to people in line to vote. Dare the cops to arrest everybody that does it. That is such an absurd thing to put in the law. If/when this is challenged in court, there is no way I can see that provision standing up (nor the restriction of voting on Sundays) as fitting the stated purpose of the law.

I hope all these pieces of trash lose in a landslide. And anybody that voted for them and continues to stand by them should be deeply ashamed.


----------



## fooferdoggie

SuperMatt said:


> At the next election, thousands of people need to come out and hand out water to people in line to vote. Dare the cops to arrest everybody that does it. That is such an absurd thing to put in the law. If/when this is challenged in court, there is no way I can see that provision standing up (nor the restriction of voting on Sundays) as fitting the stated purpose of the law.
> 
> I hope all these pieces of trash lose in a landslide. And anybody that voted for them and continues to stand by them should be deeply ashamed.



but now they can change votes sho how would that work? the blatant cheating and stupidity Georgia justly showed is astounding. thanks trump.


----------



## SuperMatt

fooferdoggie said:


> but now they can change votes sho how would that work? the blatant cheating and stupidity Georgia justly showed is astounding. thanks trump.



Oh yeah they can overrule any local election board, right? So if the Governor doesn’t like your local school board selections, he can replace them all? Is that how that works?


----------



## Yoused

fooferdoggie said:


> but now they can change votes so how would that work?




Or they can just, you know _ignore the voters_









						MO GOP Blocks Voter-Approved Medicaid Expansion, Citing Rural Opposition
					

Voters approved to expand Medicaid 53.2 to 46.7 percent, but the bill was supported by mostly urban and suburban populations.




					www.newsweek.com
				




Well, not ignore _all of them_, just the wrong types.


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> Or they can just, you know _ignore the voters_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MO GOP Blocks Voter-Approved Medicaid Expansion, Citing Rural Opposition
> 
> 
> Voters approved to expand Medicaid 53.2 to 46.7 percent, but the bill was supported by mostly urban and suburban populations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, not ignore _all of them_, just the wrong types.



I don’t understand these ballot measures. What is the point if the state legislature can just ignore them?

By the way, the arguments in that article were some of the dumbest I’ve seen.



> State Representative Ed Lewis said that opposing the bill also makes sense considering that the 53.2 percent of voters who approved the expansion don't amount to a majority of either the state's eligible voters or its population, the _Star_ added.



So, 53.2% isn’t a majority anymore? Since when does a vote count the opinions of those who didn’t show up to vote? And how would you know their opinions anyway if they didn’t vote?


----------



## fooferdoggie

SuperMatt said:


> I don’t understand these ballot measures. What is the point if the state legislature can just ignore them?
> 
> By the way, the arguments in that article were some of the dumbest I’ve seen.
> 
> 
> So, 53.2% isn’t a majority anymore? Since when does a vote count the opinions of those who didn’t show up to vote? And how would you know their opinions anyway if they didn’t vote?



So not the will of the people even though it was the will of the people. its time for republican states to just do away with elections its getting pointless.


----------



## Huntn

Yoused said:


> from the linked story,
> *Cannon faces two felony charges – felony obstruction and preventing or disrupting general assembly session, according to an arrest affidavit seen by CNN. The affidavit states that Cannon was charged with disrupting General Assembly session because she “knowingly and intentionally did by knocking the governor’s door during session of singing [sic] a bill.”*​



She is an elected representative in that body willfully and corruptly excluded from the proceedings of an official act. What a crock of shit, apropos for the Georgia GOP POSs.


----------



## SuperMatt

I read that article a bit more and then read about ballot measures in Missouri. When the ballot measure passed, it actually became part of the state constitution. The legislature is attempting to block funding of it as a way to invalidate it. However, as with other constitutional provisions, the legislature cannot just decide on their own to not fund them. This will be in court very soon I imagine.


----------



## Alli

Yoused said:


> from the linked story,
> *Cannon faces two felony charges – felony obstruction and preventing or disrupting general assembly session, according to an arrest affidavit seen by CNN. The affidavit states that Cannon was charged with disrupting General Assembly session because she “knowingly and intentionally did by knocking the governor’s door during session of singing [sic] a bill.”*​



She did less than those who stormed the Capitol on 1/6. I’m sure she would be willing to face felony charges if they were also laid for every single person who was at the Capitol on the 6th.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Alli said:


> She did less than those who stormed the Capitol on 1/6. I’m sure she would be willing to face felony charges if they were also laid for every single person who was at the Capitol on the 6th.


----------



## Yoused

SuperMatt said:


> At the next election, thousands of people need to come out and hand out water to people in line to vote.




You know what? I never stood on line to vote. Not once. I may have had to wait four or five minutes (_inside the polling place_) but this having to stand in a long line for hours is teh utter bullshit. The bill in Congress damn well needs to address this issue. States need to be forced to properly fund the voting systems so that _*every* precinct_ is adequately equipped to deal efficiently with the volume it can expect.

(And/or make mail-in balloting much more accessible.)


----------



## Scepticalscribe

I have said it elsewhere on these fora, but I really cannot fathom, or comprehend, a society where it is considered legal (is even approved, applauded with noisy approbation) to carry guns (including assault weapons) into a store when you are shopping, but it is illegal to offer water to someone waiting in line to cast a ballot.


----------



## Huntn

Scepticalscribe said:


> I have said it elsewhere on these fora, but I reallly cannot fathom, or comprehend, a society where it is considered legal (is even approved, applauded with noisy approbation) to carry guns (including assault weapons) into a store when you are shopping, but it is illegal to offer water to someone waiting in line to cast a ballot.



Enter the mind of those who have allowed their hunger for power to cloud, override, obliterate the idea of rules, fairness,  and democracy, who have decided that fair elections are a threat to their political viability, hence must be outlawed.

This effort  is happening in multiple State Legislatures currently. It’s a crisis that needs a roar of condemnation to obliterate this poison, and the real question is where does it leave us as a society? Depending on the pushback, possibly in the dumpster or broken on a field of domestic carnage. It could happen.

The opening salvo was pitiful on 6 Jan 2021 at the Capitol, Wash DC, but it got everyone’s attention, yet it remains to be seen how many will swallow this treason or will actively push back at the Trump Pestilence. Unfortunstely I am reminded of the movie V For Vendetta, where a news cast references the ongoing Civil War in America. Yeah it’s just a movie, yet it does not feel that far off the mark.


----------



## Yoused

*BIG PILLOW FIGHT!*​
Maker of mediocre pillows declares that the theft of the election will be corrected by August and the rightfully-Orange leader will be restored to power.


----------



## Alli

Yoused said:


> *BIG PILLOW FIGHT!*​
> Maker of mediocre pillows declares that the theft of the election will be corrected by August and the rightfully-Orange leader will be restored to power.



I wonder which will get to court first, the Dominion suit against pillow dude, or pillow dude's suit against the election results.


----------



## fooferdoggie

Yoused said:


> *BIG PILLOW FIGHT!*​
> Maker of mediocre pillows declares that the theft of the election will be corrected by August and the rightfully-Orange leader will be restored to power.



he keeps thinking Jesus will be resurrected?


----------



## Thomas Veil

Sounds like somebody's been eating his own memory foam.


----------



## JayMysteri0

In keeping with Georgia history, Kemp has seemingly allowed a concession

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1376627946685890566/



As long as they don't fall & lose their place, they can still vote.


----------



## fooferdoggie

JayMysteri0 said:


> In keeping with Georgia history, Kemp has seemingly allowed a concession
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1376627946685890566/
> 
> 
> 
> As long as they don't fall & lose their place, they can still vote.



they can just use the police and their water cannons free practice.


----------



## mac_in_tosh

I just watched the old movie All the King's Men about the rise to power and corruption of a politician who became governor. There were some interesting analogies to Trump as the governor was impeached and then set out on a big publicity campaign to fight it. The narrator said that if you repeat a lie long enough people start to believe it. Also, when the state legislature was holding the impeachment trial, a caravan of supporters drove to the area and formed a large crowd outside the building. Sound familiar?


----------



## User.45

mac_in_tosh said:


> *The narrator said that if you repeat a lie long enough people start to believe it.*



Reminds me of my "beloved" Soviet Union.


----------



## fooferdoggie

the guy is a cop and expected to stay at mar a logo? or something?
Eye-Gouging Capitol Rioter in 'Shock' Over Detention With 'Inner-City Crimes' Inmates: Lawyer​
Webster, 54, is a retired New York City Police officer and former Marine who at times performed high-profile duties in his career—including working perimeter security at City Hall and the New York mayoral residence, according to News 4.

Webster surrendered himself to the FBI on February 22, after he was accused of using a large metal pole to attack a Capitol police officer on January 6.








						Eye-gouging Capitol rioter in "shock" over detention with "inner-city crimes" inmates: lawyer
					

Thomas Webster, 54, has been accused of attacking a police officer with a metal pole and attempted to gouge his eyes on January 6.




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## JayMysteri0

When article has the perfect picture to accompany it...
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1385658936322400256fff/



> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/arizona-recount-trump-fraud-claims/2021/04/23/2f320b72-a3a4-11eb-a774-7b47ceb36ee8_story.html



Oh yeah, ...there was also fuckery involved



> A judge in Arizona Friday ordered a temporary pause in an extensive effort to recount ballots from the November election hours after the process began, citing concerns about whether a private vendor hired to review nearly 2.1 million ballots cast in the state’s largest county is complying with state laws governing election security.
> 
> The recount of the ballots from Maricopa County is being conducted by Republicans in the state Senate to examine unsubstantiated claims that fraud or errors tainted President Biden’s win.
> 
> Election officials and the courts have found no merit to such allegations, and the GOP-led county board of supervisors has objected to the recount.
> 
> Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Christopher Coury on Friday paused the audit beginning at 5 p.m. Friday until Monday at noon in response to a suit filed by the state Democratic Party and the county’s only Democratic supervisor, who argued that the audit violates Arizona rules governing the confidentiality and security of ballots and voting equipment.






> “The lack of transparency around this ‘audit’ is astounding and we will not stand idly by as Senate President [Karen] Fann opens up our secure election to unqualified and completely unhinged actors who believe the ‘big lie,’ ” Raquel Terán, chairwoman of the state Democratic Party, said in a statement before the ruling. “This has gone far enough and we are hopeful that the courts will put an end to this embarrassing and dangerous circus.”
> 
> Earlier this week, Senate Republicans exercised a subpoena to move voting equipment and ballots from county storage to the floor of the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum, where they have said a team of private companies will spend the next four weeks conducting a hand recount of ballots and a forensic audit of voting machines.




What could go wrong with hiring private companies probably with state funds to count ballots, who are only responsible to the party that hired them and NOT the state?

What?!



> Senate leaders have said the process is intended only to explore ways to improve the state’s elections, rather than to cast doubt on Biden’s 10,457-vote victory in Arizona over Donald Trump.




Riiiiiiiiiiiggghhttt.  Because when the state counted the ballots that wasn't good enough THEN.


----------



## Thomas Veil

The Guardian has more on that.



> The state senate used its subpoena power to take possession of all 2.1m ballots in Maricopa county and the machines that counted them, along with computer hard drives full of data. The materials were then handed to Cyber Ninjas, a consultancy *run by a man who has shared unfounded conspiracy theories claiming official election results are illegitimate*.





> On a since-deleted Twitter account, Cyber Ninjas owner Doug Logan used hashtags and shared memes popular with people promoting unsupported allegations casting doubt on Biden’s victory. Logan says his personal views are irrelevant because he is running a transparent audit with video streamed online.





> *Logan refuses to disclose who is paying him or who is counting the ballots, and will not commit to using bipartisan teams* for the process.





> *The Republican-dominated Arizona senate refuses to let media observe the count.* Reporters can accept a six-hour shift as an official observer but photography and note-taking are prohibited. It would be a violation of journalistic ethics for reporters to participate in an event they were covering.





> The state senate has put up $150,000 for the audit but Logan has acknowledged that is not enough to cover his expenses. *A rightwing cable channel, One America News Network, raised money from unknown contributors which went directly to Cyber Ninjas.* Logan would not commit to disclosing the donors and would not provide an estimate for the cost of his audit.





> Cyber Ninjas plans to have teams of three people manually count each ballot, *looking only at the presidential and US Senate contests, which were won by Democrats.*





> Logan said *the counters were members of law enforcement and the military as well as retirees. He would not say how many were Democrats or Republicans and would not commit to ensuring the counting teams are bipartisan*.





> The process was to be overseen by volunteers. *As of a week ago, 70% were Republicans*, according to Ken Bennett, a Republican former secretary of state serving as a liaison between the Senate and the auditors.





> Cyber Ninjas plans to review ballot-counting machines and data and to scan the composition of fibers in paper ballots in search of fakes. It plans to go door-to-door in select precincts to ask people if they voted. Logan was vague about how the precincts were chosen but said a statistical analysis was done “based on voter histories”.





> *The audit has been beset by mistakes.* Hand counters began the day using blue pens, which are banned in ballot counting rooms because they can be read by ballot machines. A crew from a group of Phoenix television stations, azfamily, had unfettered access to the supposedly secure facility as auditors were setting up equipment and receiving ballots and machines.





> Election experts said hand counts are prone to errors and questioned a lack of transparent procedures for adjudicating voter intent.




My bold.

So a company that has never done this before, that is run by a conspiracy theorist, who is using largely Republicans to count the ballots, is going to get to the truth, huh?

File this under "Keep rerunning the election until you get the result you want."









						Arizona Republicans deploy Cyber Ninjas in pro-Trump election audit
					

Critics say ‘reckless’ effort run by Florida consultant who shared conspiracy theories will undermine democracy




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## fooferdoggie

missed a [post repetitive.


----------



## Pumbaa

Thomas Veil said:


> So a company that has never done this before, that is run by a conspiracy theorist, who is using largely Republicans to count the ballots, is going to get to the truth, huh?



Well, duuuh!

It’s the only way. Everyone else is in league with the deep state so if they did it any other way the truth would never come out.



Thomas Veil said:


> File this under "Keep rerunning the election until you get the result you want."



See AlGoreithm


----------



## JayMysteri0

Fail!

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1388239100784877568/


----------



## JayMysteri0

There was a question why the group in Arizona was using UV lights to look at ballots.  Now we know why

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1388558378146746368/


----------



## Pumbaa

JayMysteri0 said:


> There was a question why the group in Arizona was using UV lights to look at ballots.  Now we know why
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1388558378146746368/



So if they don’t find any UV watermarks on the ballots, it proves that the dems replaced all ballots with fake ones?


----------



## Edd

Step 1: Undermine confidence in elections.

Step 2: There is no step 2.


----------



## Scepticalscribe

Edd said:


> Step 1: Undermine confidence in elections.
> 
> Step 2: There is no step 2.




Actually, and very unfortnately, there is a Step 2: 

Once confidence in elections has been (fatally) undermined, it is easy enough to dispense with elections entirely.


----------



## User.45

Scepticalscribe said:


> Actually, and very unfortnately, there is a Step 2:
> 
> Once confidence in elections has been (fatally) undermined, it is easy enough to dispense with elections entirely.



It would be hilarious if they got destroyed in the next election. They'd have to explain not only the failure, but also how they aren't very good at "preventing election fraud."


----------



## Scepticalscribe

P_X said:


> It would be hilarious if they got destroyed in the next election. They'd have to explain not only the failure, but also how they aren't very good at "preventing election fraud."




Candidly, I'd love to see them destroyed, annihilated, obliterated in the next election.

However, in the (wider) interests of democracy, and the public good, a second "party" or political group that can offer some form of legal, legitimate (and yes, yet coherent) opposition is necessary.


----------



## SuperMatt

Scepticalscribe said:


> Candidly, I'd love to see them destroyed, annihilated, obliterated in the next election.
> 
> However, in the (wider) interests of democracy, and the public good, a second "party" or political group that can offer some form of legal, legitimate (and yes, yet coherent) opposition is necessary.



I think we should have the current Democratic Party and then something to the left of it. Joe Manchin and the other right-leaning Dems can stay in the party, and the moderate republicans might come in too. The GOP is so far to the right, they are approaching fascism.


----------



## User.45

Scepticalscribe said:


> Candidly, I'd love to see them destroyed, annihilated, obliterated in the next election.
> 
> However, in the (wider) interests of democracy, and the public good, a second "party" or political group that can offer some form of legal, legitimate (and yes, yet coherent) opposition is necessary.



Oh, agree 100%. I've been having a double worry. The GOP falling apart, and the DNC corrupting beyond recognition in the absence of opposition. 



SuperMatt said:


> I think we should have the current Democratic Party and then something to the left of it. Joe Manchin and the other right-leaning Dems can stay in the party, and the moderate republicans might come in too. The GOP is so far to the right, they are approaching fascism.



In Europe, the GOP and DNC would be 5-6 separate parties. The concern is really how would a system that is designed for 2 opposing parties tolerate the conversion to a many-party system. If you think about it, the DNC  has Manchin and Sanders (I know he's kinda independent). How can you come up with a platform that renders these two guys compatible?! You can't.


----------



## Alli

JayMysteri0 said:


> There was a question why the group in Arizona was using UV lights to look at ballots. Now we know why



I still contend that if the former guy watermarked official ballots on the sly, he is guilty of election tampering.


----------



## User.45

Alli said:


> I still contend that if the former guy watermarked official ballots on the sly, he is guilty of election tampering.



Absolutely. But if that had any credence they'd pulled this in November.


----------



## Yoused

Edd said:


> Step 1: Undermine confidence in elections.
> 
> Step 2: There is no step 2.





_If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy._
— David Frum (a genuine conservative)​


----------



## Yoused

Alli said:


> I still contend that if the former guy watermarked official ballots on the sly, he is guilty of election tampering.



Yeah, but his hands are clean. He did not watermark them himself. He paid some Russian women to let him watch them do it.


----------



## Pumbaa

Yoused said:


> Yeah, but his hands are clean. He did not watermark them himself. He paid some Russian women to let him watch them do it.



I find that hard to believe. They probably got stiffed on the bill.


----------



## Yoused

Pumbaa said:


> I find that hard to believe. They probably got stiffed on the bill.



Well, he was in the WH at the time, so maybe it would be more accurate to say that _we_ paid them. He is great at spending other people's money.


----------



## Pumbaa

Yoused said:


> Well, he was in the WH at the time, so maybe it would be more accurate to say that _we_ paid them. He is great at spending other people's money.



Even greater at spending other people’s money somewhere he profits from.


----------



## thekev

Scepticalscribe said:


> Candidly, I'd love to see them destroyed, annihilated, obliterated in the next election.
> 
> However, in the (wider) interests of democracy, and the public good, a second "party" or political group that can offer some form of legal, legitimate (and yes, yet coherent) opposition is necessary.




Maybe just the Trump wing could be obliterated then. I can't see a positive side to the likes of Boebert, Cruz, Gaetz, Green, or Voldemort Scott.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Real life outperforms The Onion again.









						Arizona’s Republican-Run Election Audit Is Now Looking for Bamboo-Laced “China Ballots”
					

The Cyber Ninjas are pursuing a pro-Trump fantasy right into the fibers of the ballots.




					slate.com
				




Arizona’s Republican-Run Election Audit Is Now Looking for Bamboo-Laced “China Ballots”​


> On Wednesday, a member of the Arizona election audit team that has been heavily touted by former President Donald Trump revealed that its examination of the 2020 vote in Maricopa County will include a “forensic” analysis of ballots to determine if the paper is made of bamboo—in order to determine whether or not China delivered tens of thousands of fraudulent ballots to tip the state to Joe Biden.





> …“There’s accusations that 40,000 ballots were flown in and stuffed into the box and it came from the Southeast part of the world, Asia. And what they’re doing is to find out if there’s bamboo in the paper,” (audit liaison John Brakey told Dennis Welch of CBS5 News.




https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1390020821230313473/

 RUFK​


----------



## Thomas Veil

More:









						Observers report ballots and laptop computers have been left unattended in Ariz. recount, says secretary of state — The Washington Post
					

The warning from Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs (D) came as one volunteer involved in the audit said workers were searching for traces of bamboo to test an unfounded theory that ballots improperly originated in Asia.




					apple.news
				






> Ballots have been left unattended on counting tables.
> 
> Laptop computers sit abandoned, at times — open, unlocked and unmonitored.
> 
> Procedures are constantly shifting, with untrained workers using different rules to count ballots.





> Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs (D) on Wednesday sent a letter outlining a string of problems that she said observers from her office have witnessed at a Republican-led recount of the 2020 presidential election results in Arizona’s largest county….





> Former Arizona secretary of state Ken Bennett (R), who is acting as a spokesman for the audit, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. But the audit’s Twitter account, @ArizonaAudit, tweeted that Hobbs’s allegations were “baseless claimes [sic].”
> 
> “The audit continues!” read the tweet.




Now I ask you…what could be fairer than that?


----------



## JayMysteri0

Thomas Veil said:


> Real life outperforms The Onion again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona’s Republican-Run Election Audit Is Now Looking for Bamboo-Laced “China Ballots”
> 
> 
> The Cyber Ninjas are pursuing a pro-Trump fantasy right into the fibers of the ballots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> slate.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona’s Republican-Run Election Audit Is Now Looking for Bamboo-Laced “China Ballots”​
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1390020821230313473/
> 
> RUFK​



I'm sorry.

But seeing that on video...  IS FUCKING AWESOME!!!

HOLY FRIGGIN FUCKING NUT BALLS in real life!!!  

I just saw this being covered by Rachel Maddow, and I was on the floor laughing.  As cornball as she can be, even she was funny with the material they handed her.

All I can think of is how FUCKING embarrassed I am for the republicans who signed onto this shitshow that will go down in history.


----------



## Thomas Veil

I’ll have to check out that Maddow show…


----------



## Yoused

try here


----------



## Pumbaa

Yoused said:


> try here



Thanks for the entertainment! Not sure if I should cry with laughter or just plain cry… 

This whole Cyber Ninja thing is so ridiculous and contra productive. Even if they were to find something authentic it wouldn’t be admissible anywhere due to their tainted process. Either they know fully well there is nothing to find, or they're just _that_ uneducated and moronic. Both options are scary. 

Still, Trump’s base will eat it all up. And it will be used by Republicans as justification for anti-democratic bills. The world is laughing at you.


----------



## Thomas Veil

LOL! 

That _was_ funny! Especially the part about how they’re gonna get thrown out of their venue because it’s needed for…I don’t know…the Maricopa Home and Flower Show or something.


----------



## Thomas Veil

I can’t believe it…this just keeps getting better and better.









						Merrick Garland Has Trained the Justice Department's Sights on the Cyber Ninjas
					

The Arizona election "auditors" have repeatedly put the integrity of the ballots they're counting at risk. They are also, generally, clowns.




					www.esquire.com
				






> The DOJ is “concerned” with what’s going on with the Arizona state senate’s “audit” of 2.1 million votes in Maricopa County, and when this DOJ gets “concerned,” the ground starts to shake a bit. From the Washington Post:





> In a letter to GOP Senate President Karen Fann, the head of the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division said the Senate’s farming out of 2.1 million ballots from the state’s most populous county to a contractor may run afoul of federal law requiring ballots to remain in the control of elections officials for 22 months. And Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Pamela S. Karlan said that the Senate contractor’s plans to directly contact voters could amount to illegal voter intimidation.




This has “clusterfuck” written all over it.


----------



## DT

Thomas Veil said:


> This has “clusterfuck” written all over *bamboo paper from China*.


----------



## Yoused

There has to be some weird paradoxical symmetry to the universe when the head of DoJ's Civil Rights Division is named Karen.


----------



## Thomas Veil

I swear. Really. I don’t want to keep adding to this sordid, ridiculous story, but the stupidity and the nefariousness just keep on coming.









						Sheriff Goes Ballistic After Arizona Recounters Demand Access To County Passwords
					

Giving computer network router and password information to a firm run by a conspiracy theorist is "mind-numbingly reckless," the Maricopa County sheriff said.




					www.huffpost.com
				






> The private company conducting the GOP 2020 election recount in Arizona is now demanding access to government internet routers and passwords, which the Maricopa County sheriff blasted as “mind-numbingly reckless and irresponsible” and a threat to law enforcement….





> “The Senate Republican Caucus’ audit of the Maricopa County votes from last November’s election has no stopping point,” (Democratic Sheriff Paul) Penzone said. “Now, its most recent demands jeopardize the entire mission of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office.”





> In addition, citizens’ private information, including voting histories, addresses, phone numbers and Social Security numbers, could fall into the hands of Cyber Ninjas, the company hired by the GOP-led Senate to conduct the recount.




Thank god the Maricopa sheriff is a Democrat these days. Crazy Joe Arpaio would have given them the keys to the kingdom in a heartbeat.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> I swear. Really. I don’t want to keep adding to this sordid, ridiculous story, but the stupidity and the nefariousness just keep on coming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheriff Goes Ballistic After Arizona Recounters Demand Access To County Passwords
> 
> 
> Giving computer network router and password information to a firm run by a conspiracy theorist is "mind-numbingly reckless," the Maricopa County sheriff said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.huffpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank god the Maricopa sheriff is a Democrat these days. Crazy Joe Arpaio would have given them the keys to the kingdom in a heartbeat.



This part was terrible too:



> Last week, the state Senate decided to delay the personal canvassing of voters, in which Cyber Ninjas operatives grilled residents about their voting. Republicans in the Senate backed off after receiving a complaint from the U.S. Department of Justice that such action could amount to illegal voter intimidation and civil rights violations.
> Arizona Senate President Karen Fann told the Justice Department that if that portion of the project is restarted, canvassers “will not carry a firearm or other weapons” when they knock on citizens’ doors.



Isn’t your vote supposed to be private? How TF is it legal for them to let this company see who you voted for, then come to your house with a gun (oh I guess they are backing down on bringing the guns now) and ask? What if you tell them to F off? What if you lie? What if you can’t remember? Holy f-ing  on a  ....


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Yoused said:


> There has to be some weird paradoxical symmetry to the universe when the head of DoJ's Civil Rights Division is named Karen.




Reminds me of when I went to the movie theater a couple weeks ago and they were running an ad for something and this exchange took place.

Woman 1: Sorry for calling you Karen.
Woman 2: My name is Karen.
Woman 1: Sorry your name is Karen.


----------



## SuperMatt

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Reminds me of when I went to the movie theater a couple weeks ago and they were running an ad for something and this exchange took place.
> 
> Woman 1: Sorry for calling you Karen.
> Woman 2: My name is Karen.
> Woman 1: Sorry your name is Karen.



My stepmother’s name is Karen. It fits.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

SuperMatt said:


> This part was terrible too:
> 
> 
> Isn’t your vote supposed to be private? How TF is it legal for them to let this company see who you voted for, then come to your house with a gun (oh I guess they are backing down on bringing the guns now) and ask? What if you tell them to F off? What if you lie? What if you can’t remember? Holy f-ing  on a  ....




Currently you aren't considered a respected Republican ally until you've been sued for at least a billion dollars.


----------



## Yoused

Some guy's pillows seem to cause head injuries, if he is an example of their use,

*Lindell, who still claims that Coomer is guilty of voter fraud, urged the Dominion staffer to turn himself in to the police. "Eric Coomer if I were you right now, instead of going over and making deals at Newsmax, if I were you, I'm turning myself in and turning in the whole operation … so maybe, just maybe you get immunity and you only get to do, I dunno, ten [to] twenty years."*​
He has a firm grasp on what immunity means. In fact, he has such a firm grasp on reality,

*In February, Lindell released Absolute Proof, a film claiming that a Chinese cyberattack determined the 2020 election results. OANN issued a 80-second disclaimer … "Mr. Lindell is the sole author and executive producer of this program and is solely and exclusively responsible for its content. … The topic of this broadcast is the 2020 election. OAN has undertaken its own reporting on this topic. This program is not the product of OAN's reporting."*​
How batshit do you have to be that even QAN distances themselves from your fucknuttery?


----------



## Yoused

_How do you expect us to do this if we can't have what we need_?

Have you considered the possibility that *we don't*?​
Arizona Frauditors demand access to government routers and passwords. Mario party County Sheriff says, yeah, *no*.


I mean, just imagine if the Sheriff was, like, a criminal asshole. Dodged a bullet there.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Yoused said:


> _How do you expect us to do this if we can't have what we need_?​​Have you considered the possibility that *we don't*?​
> Arizona Frauditors demand access to government routers and passwords. Mario party County Sheriff says, yeah, *no*.
> 
> 
> I mean, just imagine if the Sheriff was, like, a criminal asshole. Dodged a bullet there.




The fact that they refuse to provide boxes of ballets with “fraudulent vote” stamped on them proves there were fraudulent votes.  The more of these recounts and investigations that turn up nothing also proves there were fraudulent votes. The less evidence you have the more the proof. This is the world we live in now.  

Any Republican who doesn’t win in 2022 had it stolen from them by fraudulent votes.  This will be supported and believed by an overwhelming lack of evidence.


----------



## thekev

Yoused said:


> _How do you expect us to do this if we can't have what we need_?​​Have you considered the possibility that *we don't*?​
> Arizona Frauditors demand access to government routers and passwords. Mario party County Sheriff says, yeah, *no*.
> 
> 
> I mean, just imagine if the Sheriff was, like, a criminal asshole. Dodged a bullet there.




From your link



> It made comedian Sarah Silverman say “THIS IS FUCKING BRILLIANT” *and prompted author Stephen King to shout **“Pulitzer Prize!!!”* (on Twitter, that is). What is it? The viral letter that launched four hilarious Trump-trolling books. Get them all, including the finale, _Goodbye, Asshat: 101 Farewell Letters_ _to Donald Trump_, at this link. Just $12.96 for the pack of 4! Or if you prefer a test drive, you can download the epilogue to _Goodbye, Asshat_ for the low, low price of FREE.




I guess that means it's time to make a stand?


----------



## shadow puppet

I hope this backfires miserably.  What I can't discern, is why more folks aren't screaming over this atrocity.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1392198514365566978/


----------



## Thomas Veil

shadow puppet said:


> I hope this backfires miserably.  What I can't discern, is why more folks aren't screaming over this atrocity.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1392198514365566978/




Indeed. I had to search for the story on CNN. It didn't even come up above the fold on the front page. I had to scroll way down past very important stories about Dylan Dreyer's pregnancy and Samantha Bee's cats to find it.

And Ducey just couldn't _wait_ to sign it. It's a done deal. Silver lining is that throwing voters off the rolls doesn't go into effect until 2025--but it's still an unconstitutional attempt to make Arizona a one party state.

And get this from Ducey:



> "Arizona is a national leader when it comes to election integrity and access to the ballot box, and today I signed #SB1485 to continue that legacy," Ducey wrote on Twitter.




Right. What an asshole.









						Arizona governor signs bill that would stop some voters from automatically receiving mail-in ballots | CNN Politics
					

Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey on Tuesday signed into law a controversial bill that could remove tens of thousands of voters from the state's early mail-in voting list, shortly after the GOP-controlled state Senate passed the legislation.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## Thomas Veil

Because what else was this Maricopa official supposed to say?









						Arizona GOP election official calls Trump post about Maricopa audit 'unhinged'
					

An election official from Arizona is calling former President Donald Trump's claims about the audit of Maricopa County's 2020 presidential election results "unhinged."




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				






> Earlier on Saturday, Trump took to his new communicative platform to allege the entire database had been erased.





> "The entire Database of Maricopa County in Arizona has been DELETED!" Trump wrote in a post, calling such action "illegal."





> Stephen Richer, the Maricopa County recorder and a registered Republican, called Trump's assertions that the county's entire voter database was deleted "readily falsifiable."





> "Wow. This is unhinged. I'm literally looking at our voter registration database on my other screen. Right now," he tweeted Saturday. "We can't indulge these insane lies any longer. As a party. As a state. As a country."




The Republican Party really needs to put Trump in a rubber room.


----------



## Thomas Veil

The Washington Post has an excellent article out, a really deep dive into where all this BS came from in the first place about Trump being cheated out of the election.



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/trump-election-fraud-texas-businessman-ramsland-asog/
		


It turns out this crazy idea has its roots back in 2018, when a Republican businessman and failed candidate named Russell Ramsland got it into his head that Texas offices couldn't have been legitimately lost to the Democrats, that there had so be some electronic voter fraud going on.

He pitched the idea to quite a few other Republicans, including Pete Sessions and other people who lost elections, but no one bought his "proof" that voting machine audit logs showed votes had been flipped.

Together with a like-minded contemporary, Laura Pressley, herself a 30-point election loser who was convinced that she'd actually won, he began to aim his fortunes at the one man he knew was likely to listen...

Donald J. Trump.

And to get to Trump, he needed to first get to Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell.

It's a long but fascinating and bizarre read. The article doesn't seem to be behind a paywall, but in case it is, I'm adding a PDF of the story.


----------



## Huntn

Here is a question, how do you have an election where only the Presidential ballots have been corrupted, not the entire ballot? You need some conspiracy theory wishful thinking bag of nuts to waste hundreds of thousand of dollars trying to prove why Donald J Trump is not a big fat loser.
Maricopa County, Arizona is partially infected by QAnon. The Arizona GOP Establishment, what’s left  of them, has finally had enough:









						GOP-dominated Arizona board of supervisors call for end to election audit
					

The state Senate president's letter drew the attention of former President Trump, who blasted it out through his Save America PAC and called her  claims "devastating."




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Pumbaa

Huntn said:


> Here is a question, how do you have an election where only the Presidential ballots have been corrupted, not the entire ballot? You need some conspiracy theory wishful thinking bag of nuts to waste hundreds of thousand of dollars trying to prove why Donald J Trump is not a big fat loser.
> Maricopa County, Arizona is partially infected by QAnon. The Arizona GOP Establishment, what’s left  of them, has finally had enough:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOP-dominated Arizona board of supervisors call for end to election audit
> 
> 
> The state Senate president's letter drew the attention of former President Trump, who blasted it out through his Save America PAC and called her  claims "devastating."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com



Easy. _The enemy is both strong and weak._

The enemy can plan and carry out election fraud to steal the presidency and the only evidence is that there is no evidence of the fraud.

Thankfully the enemy is incompetent and couldn’t figure out how to steal the down-ballot races too. Makes sense. There are lots of races and hundreds of names to consider, whereas Trump vs. Biden is only one race with two names. 

Fascist bastards.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

I find it more concerning how many people actually did vote for Trump. Since the Republican party seems to be a huge practitioner of he who smelt it dealt it, it’s like they are so in disbelief that they lost because their own rigging of the election should have made their win a certainty.


----------



## Huntn

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I find it more concerning how many people actually did vote for Trump. Since the Republican party seems to be a huge practitioner of he who smelt it dealt it, it’s like they are so in disbelief that they lost because their own rigging of the election should have made their win a certainty.



Agreed 110% if you want a reason to be dismayed about the future of the USA. Too much selfish and stupid.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Yeah....

Cyber ninjas Gooooooooooooo!

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1395494598017966082/


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> Yeah....
> 
> Cyber ninjas Gooooooooooooo!
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1395494598017966082/



Desperately conspiracy theory stupid. Here is the thing, when it comes to corrupt, it’s just as likely that one of these GOP/Q ASSHAT losers will ask for a back door into their voting equipment so when the election has “obviously” been rigged against them, they can flip a switch and “fix” it, throw enough votes to their loser to turn the results and  claim divine approval.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Huntn said:


> Desperately conspiracy theory stupid. Here is the thing, when it comes to corrupt, it’s just as likely that one of these GOP/Q ASSHAT losers will ask for a back door into their voting equipment so when the election has “obviously” been rigged against them, they can flip a switch and “fix” it, throw enough votes to their loser to turn the results and  claim divine approval.




if this was a fire the GOP would be both the fire department and arsonist who can’t conclude what started the fire.

Newer reps are all in on this horse shit.  Older reps are content to see how much they will be allowed to get away with to apply later.  The next voting cycle could require fingerprints, retina scans, and facial recognition and they’ll still yell voter fraud if they lose.  This is a 100% certainty and even knowing that we’re largely doing nothing about it because we always let the GOP control the message and just hope the people see through it.  

I’d expect more violence because we’re practically asking for it at this point. There’s “good people” in the violent mob.  What are we doing about acknowledged major mental health issues? Nothing except making it worse. Make everybody think their neighbor’s political views are the cause of all their problems while the GOP obstructs anything that would actually help.


----------



## Huntn

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> if this was a fire the GOP would be both the fire department and arsonist who can’t conclude what started the fire.
> 
> Newer reps are all in on this horse shit.  Older reps are content to see how much they will be allowed to get away with to apply later.  The next voting cycle could require fingerprints, retina scans, and facial recognition and they’ll still yell voter fraud if they lose.  This is a 100% certainty and even knowing that we’re largely doing nothing about it because we always let the GOP control the message and just hope the people see through it.
> 
> I’d expect more violence because we’re practically asking for it at this point. There’s “good people” in the violent mob.  What are we doing about acknowledged major mental health issues? Nothing except making it worse. Make everybody think their neighbor’s political views are the cause of all their problems while the GOP obstructs anything that would actually help.



This country is in deep shit. It’s possible that we will just continue to muddle along, but what the GOP is trying is a soft revolution, though legislative corruption. They will pass their anti-democracy laws in the states they control. We’ll have to see how many of those laws stand by way of SCOTUS and then we’ll  see how many GOP States refuse to certify their elections or have corrupted the infrastructure/suppressed the vote enough to get their win.

At some point when it becomes apparent to enough people that elections don’t mean squat then it will be a come to Jesus moment and we’ll find how many of us are willing to continue to slide away from democracy or we might just have a hard revolution on our hands. When the game is rigged enough, and I’m referring to actual rigging, not right wing propaganda, at some point physical action will be required to correct the issue.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Wha?     Who would do such a thing?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1396836999366160393/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1396853835637866500/


----------



## SuperMatt

OMG - check out this interview with the leader of the Arizona audit. My favorite part is when the woman (yes her name really is Karen) says “are you telling me OAN is not a credible news source?” and the reporter just drops her jaw…. About 2:30 into it..









						CNN confronts woman behind bogus Arizona audit - CNN Video
					

CNN's Kyung Lah speaks to Arizona state Senate President Karen Fann about the controversial audit taking place in Maricopa County.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## Alli

It’s actually getting fun now that it appears it is illegal for a 3rd party outfit to “audit” an election.


----------



## Pumbaa

Alli said:


> It’s actually getting fun now that it appears it is illegal for a 3rd party outfit to “audit” an election.



Typical. The Deep State strikes again, protecting the swamp.


----------



## SuperMatt

Alli said:


> It’s actually getting fun now that it appears it is illegal for a 3rd party outfit to “audit” an election.



Oooh do you have a source for an article about this? I’d love to read more.


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Oooh do you have a source for an article about this? I’d love to read more.



It was on both Chris and Rachael last night on MSNBC.


----------



## SuperMatt

20% of people think that “a biblical-scale storm would soon sweep away these evil elites and ‘restore the rightful leaders.’”









						Understanding QAnon’s Connection to American Politics, Religion, and Media Consumption - PRRI
					

Fifteen percent of Americans agree with the key allegation of QAnon.




					www.prri.org
				




People truly have lost their minds.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Whaaaaaaaaaa?!

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399148835159437314/


----------



## Yoused

More stuff about the felon Michael Flynn telling _a Qanon conference_ that he is not a conspiracy theorist, and
“_I want to know why what happened in Myanmar can't happen here? No reason. I mean, it should happen._”​
This guy needs 



Spoiler: to have someone



grab his asshole and push it out his nose





(use caution with the above link, which goes to rawstory, because the coding on their pages has a tendency to set your device on fire)


----------



## Huntn

​

Little energizer vampire bunnies working hard to squelch your vote, as Democrats fight back:








						Texas Democrats Block Harsh Voting Bill By Walking Out En Masse
					

The bill would crack down on absentee voting, drive-through voting and more — and Texas Republicans could still pass it.




					www.huffpost.com
				




The most heinous thing about these _steal the election_ bills is that the vampires can make up their bull shit reasons without any verification, zero proof, just their putrid lies, and then rub our nose in their virulence, by attaching a _pretend we are Patriots,  _propaganda name to it for the dummies benefit.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Yoused said:


> More stuff about the felon Michael Flynn telling _a Qanon conference_ that he is not a conspiracy theorist, and
> “_I want to know why what happened in Myanmar can't happen here? No reason. I mean, it should happen._”​
> This guy needs
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: to have someone
> 
> 
> 
> grab his asshole and push it out his nose
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (use caution with the above link, which goes to rawstory, because the coding on their pages has a tendency to set your device on fire)



The man's a straight-up traitor. 

Can you strip a retired officer of his rank?



Huntn said:


> View attachment 5611​
> 
> Little energizer vampire bunnies working hard to squelch your vote, as Democrats fight back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Texas Democrats Block Harsh Voting Bill By Walking Out En Masse
> 
> 
> The bill would crack down on absentee voting, drive-through voting and more — and Texas Republicans could still pass it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.huffpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The most heinous thing about these _steal the election_ bills is that the vampires can make up their bull shit reasons without any verification, zero proof, just their putrid lies, and then rub our nose in their virulence, by attaching a _pretend we are Patriots,  _propaganda name to it for the dummies benefit.



I would emphasize that they can make up those BS reasons without any proof because they have a bovine voter base that is highly suspicious of critical thinking.

I love how they've been trying to cram this through in the wee hours of the morning. Nothing says, "I've nothing to hide" like midnight legislation.

The Democrats will ultimately fail at this, though. It give me zero pleasure to say that, but I'm sure it's true.


----------



## Alli

Thomas Veil said:


> Can you strip a retired officer of his rank?



Yes. And his pension too.


----------



## JayMysteri0

When you feel the need to remind everyone you're bad at your job & an idiot.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399482177532874757/

The legislators paycheck?

_State legislators in Texas make $600 per month, or $7,200 per year, plus a per diem of $221 for every day the Legislature is in session (also including any special sessions). That adds up to $38,140 a year for a regular session (140 days), with the total pay for a two-year term being $45,340.

Texas Legislature - WIkipedia_

I think the democrats will get over that check to make their point.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Not to mention, this seems to be a very blunt instrument. As far as I can tell, Abbott cannot target Democrats specifically. This would withhold the pay of Republicans and Democrats alike.

Yeah, that’ll show ‘em!


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> When you feel the need to remind everyone you're bad at your job & an idiot.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399482177532874757/
> 
> The legislators paycheck?
> 
> _State legislators in Texas make $600 per month, or $7,200 per year, plus a per diem of $221 for every day the Legislature is in session (also including any special sessions). That adds up to $38,140 a year for a regular session (140 days), with the total pay for a two-year term being $45,340.
> 
> Texas Legislature - WIkipedia_
> 
> I think the democrats will get over that check to make their point.



This is really funny. I suspect Abbott will need a little more leverage


----------



## JayMysteri0

So this f'n guy led me down a rabbit hole

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399562275770580992/

Because of a recurring thing I've heard about him & his accident that left him paralyzed.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399564189832728576/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399573057438728192/
_Tell me that photo doesn't look like Palpatine_

So it all begins to sound like being in perfectly republican character for this guy in any other thing he is involved with


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> So this f'n guy led me down a rabbit hole
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399562275770580992/
> 
> Because of a recurring thing I've heard about him & his accident that left him paralyzed.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399564189832728576/
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1399573057438728192/
> _Tell me that photo doesn't look like Palpatine_
> 
> So it all begins to sound like being in perfectly republican character for this guy in any other thing he is involved with



I do agree with tort claim caps, but anybody who knows the cost of care for a paraplegic person knows that $250K doesn't cut it long term.


----------



## JayMysteri0




----------



## JayMysteri0

So when everyone thought ballots in Arizona had bamboo in them because of China...

We didn't realize that was an evolution of theories put out there.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1401212832704876545/


----------



## Thomas Veil

Oh, so now it's the Italians, huh?

Venezuela is _so_ last week.


----------



## Thomas Veil

If you want to get the absolute shit scared out of you, forgo "The Conjuring 3" and click below for last night's (6-11-21) _Rachel Maddow Show_. She devoted her first ten minutes to stories of places around the country--and it sounds like there's quite a few of them--where decent, honest election officials are being hounded out of office.

Stories of city council meetings being ambushed with astroturfed phone calls lasting hours, demanding the resignation of someone who oversaw a perfectly legitimate election. (It worked, too. He resigned.) Stories of poll officials and their families threatened with death. Stories of plain old poll workers delivering ballots at night and being threateningly pursued by SUVs. Oh, it's ugly.

It sounds like a lot of these people don't want to come back to their jobs, and Maddow rightly points out the number of Trump types who are just waiting in the wings to fill their spots. I mean, that's the whole idea.

Merrick Garland has promised to vigorously pursue cases of voter suppression, and he's planning to add to the personnel in that division of DOJ, but it sounds like they still might be woefully understaffed to deal with what might happen in November of 2022. If some of these bastards get in office, how are we supposed to trust that they'll count the votes fairly and legally?

The slow moving coup is positioning itself for the kill shot.


----------



## SuperMatt

We now have more details about Trump’s attempts to get the DoJ to overturn the election.



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/trump-justice-department-2020-election/?itid=hp_alert


----------



## thekev

P_X said:


> I do agree with tort claim caps, but anybody who knows the cost of care for a paraplegic person knows that $250K doesn't cut it long term.




Cost of long term care has to be paid in some manner. They could try to fund part of it through the state, via property tax laws or by forcing homeowner's insurance companies to pay into a public fund or whatever else, but $250k sounds like absolutely nothing for decades of resulting health issues. He's also able to work as governor, but he wouldn't be able to work in a lot of physically demanding fields.

If California elected a disabled governor, we would almost certainly have some number of right wing trolls complaining about the taxpayer burden of the cost of wheelchair ramps and other accessibility measures.


----------



## Thomas Veil

SuperMatt said:


> We now have more details about Trump’s attempts to get the DoJ to overturn the election.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/trump-justice-department-2020-election/?itid=hp_alert



For those blocked by WP's paywall, CNN has a similar story.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/15/politics/trump-allies-emails-justice-department-2020-election/index.htmlhttps://www.cnn.com/2021/06/15/politics/trump-allies-emails-justice-department-2020-election/index.html

The upshot is Jeffrey Rosen and DOJ official Richard Donoghue got a memo from Trump's staff with yet another claim of election fraud, this time in Michigan.



> The emails also provide new detail into how Mark Meadows, then-White House chief of staff, directed Rosen to have then-Assistant Attorney General Jeffrey Clark -- who reportedly urged Trump to make him acting attorney general instead of Rosen -- investigate voter fraud issues in Georgia before the US attorney there resigned in January.
> Amid the pressure, Rosen said he refused to speak to Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani about his false claims that the 2020 election was stolen.





> When Meadows sought to have Rosen arrange an FBI meeting with a Giuliani ally *pushing a conspiracy theory that Italy was using military technology and satellites to somehow change votes to Joe Biden*, Rosen said he would not help Giuliani.
> "I flatly refused, said I would not be giving any special treatment to Giuliani or any of his 'witnesses,' and re-affirmed yet again that I will not talk to Giuliani about any of this," Rosen wrote to Donoghue.




(My bold.) There was pressure about other alleged irregularities in Georgia. Luckily, Rosen and Donoghue kept their heads on straight.



> Rosen forwarded the email to Donoghue later that day, saying: "Can you believe this? I am not going to respond to the message below."
> "At least it's better than the last one, but that doesn't say much," Donoghue responded.
> When Meadows sent Rosen a YouTube video link about Italian satellites, Rosen forwarded it to Donoghue, who responded, "Pure insanity."




And ya know, Trump is so vengeful that even if he _had_ won he'd probably still be ordering the apparatus of government to chase down these wild geese. Thank god that insane man is now 1,000 miles away from the Oval Office.

This is bad enough as a misuse of government. We’ve yet to find the extent to which he was spying on reporters and members of Congress.


----------



## thekev

Thomas Veil said:


> And ya know, Trump is so vengeful that even if he _had_ won he'd probably still be ordering the apparatus of government to chase down these wild geese. Thank god that insane man is now 1,000 miles away from the Oval Office.
> 
> This is bad enough as a misuse of government. We’ve yet to find the extent to which he was spying on reporters and members of Congress.




I'm wondering what sort of interference his remaining supporters will run on that one. There's a big difference between an investigation by a neutral party and an investigation directed by one of the candidates, including Trump's thinly veiled pressuring of election officials.


----------



## lizkat

Thomas Veil said:


> For those blocked by WP's paywall, CNN has a similar story.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/15/politics/trump-allies-emails-justice-department-2020-election/index.htmlhttps://www.cnn.com/2021/06/15/politics/trump-allies-emails-justice-department-2020-election/index.html
> 
> The upshot is Jeffrey Rosen and DOJ official Richard Donoghue got a memo from Trump's staff with yet another claim of election fraud, this time in Michigan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (My bold.) There was pressure about other alleged irregularities in Georgia. Luckily, Rosen and Donoghue kept their heads on straight.
> 
> 
> 
> And ya know, Trump is so vengeful that even if he _had_ won he'd probably still be ordering the apparatus of government to chase down these wild geese. Thank god that insane man is now 1,000 miles away from the Oval Office.
> 
> This is bad enough as a misuse of government. We’ve yet to find the extent to which he was spying on reporters and members of Congress.




Not sure the Congress will pay more than lip service to outrage over Trump spying on members of the press.   The pols live or die over attention from the press but they never like being the subject of investigatory reporting.   They all just want their scripted soundbites aired on TV.

Spying on fellow members of Congress and their families though...   only the likes of hyperpartisans like Jim Jordan could limit all imagination of that to a mental picture of Adam Schiff, for instance, and just shrug it off.

How would you like to be Eve Schiff, belatedly discovering that her personal communications had been tossed like so much furniture in a drug raid during a late-night rerun of some police procedural?   And how about finding out that the phone records of one of your minor children had also been swept up under subpoena? 

And why isn't Bill Barr locked up yet for having more than danced around the truth when questioned by then Senator Kamala Harris...  all that "grappling with the meaning of the word 'suggest'" was so much bushwah masquerading as uncertainty or flawed memory etc.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1405170801809055755/


----------



## Thomas Veil

This just gets weirder and weirder. Copies of the Arizona voter data have now been taken to a secretive “lab” in Montana, where they are in the hands of yet another self-styled forensics “expert”.

I tell ya, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. This has long passed the borders of crooked, stupid and crazy and is now entering the town of Whatthefuck. 









						Arizona voting data taken to so-called 'lab' in remote Montana - CNN Video
					

CNN's Gary Tuchman takes a closer look why Arizona voting data has been taken by truck to a property near Bigfork, Montana.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## thekev

JayMysteri0 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1405170801809055755/





Thomas Veil said:


> This just gets weirder and weirder. Copies of the Arizona voter data have now been taken to a secretive “lab” in Montana, where they are in the hands of yet another self-styled forensics “expert”.
> 
> I tell ya, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. This has long passed the borders of crooked, stupid and crazy and is now entering the town of Whatthefuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona voting data taken to so-called 'lab' in remote Montana - CNN Video
> 
> 
> CNN's Gary Tuchman takes a closer look why Arizona voting data has been taken by truck to a property near Bigfork, Montana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com




As far as investigations are concerned, I would not be surprised if some of these guys end up investigated over voter intimidation. Also, how do they even maintain a clean chain of custody with these things. Without that I don't see how any claims would hold water, not they would anyway, given the jackasses involved. I would hope that Arizona voters recognize the waste of tax dollars next time the politicians who supported this are up for reelection.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Saw this on Rachel Maddow tonight, and it is completely CRAZY BALLS!!!

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1407145090976526336/

Hopefully her 20 minute explainer gets put online, because the lead up you will NOT see coming before it gets to what's being done in Arizona.






Unfortunately they didn't include the incredible lead up that prefaces this woman, into the sea of grifters we are swimming in.


----------



## Thomas Veil

I’ve said it before: the Department of Justice needs to use RICO laws to investigate the Republican party. The corruption there is totally out of control.

However I have my doubts about DOJ’s capability and willingness to do that.

In the first place, investigating an entire party as corrupt I don’t think has a precedent in our country. The very idea is fraught with the obvious political pitfalls, especially claims of political persecution.

Secondly, I don’t know if Merrick Garland is tough enough to take the kind action that is necessary. You’d need a crusader—somebody with more prosecutory zeal, like former Attorney General and Governor of New York Elliot Spitzer.

And finally, the number of attorneys and investigators Garland is talking about hiring is not nearly enough. The rot is so deep you’d need to develop an entire section of the Justice Department simply to concentrate on this ongoing criminal enterprise.


----------



## JayMysteri0

This is a very shitty rip of the show last night, that is horribly out of synch.






BUT...  If you can manage to muscle your way thru the first 15 minutes or so, it's the lead into the video that MSNBC itself put up.  IGNORE the rest.  The synching issues will hurt your brain, and fawning of dem congress people gets old fast.

The explainer is literally vintage Maddow, that's made her show interesting.  Literally trying to figure out why she's going on about a bankrupt Icelandic airline and it's relevance to anything going on today.  To find out the connections & go....








> WILD: WOW Air Owner Behind Election Conspiracy Theory, Lied About $30 Million Mansion
> 
> 
> The founder of the relaunched WOW Air is behind an election fraud conspiracy theory, and faked living in a $30 million mansion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> onemileatatime.com


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Thomas Veil said:


> If you want to get the absolute shit scared out of you, forgo "The Conjuring 3" and click below for last night's (6-11-21) _Rachel Maddow Show_. She devoted her first ten minutes to stories of places around the country--and it sounds like there's quite a few of them--where decent, honest election officials are being hounded out of office.
> 
> Stories of city council meetings being ambushed with astroturfed phone calls lasting hours, demanding the resignation of someone who oversaw a perfectly legitimate election. (It worked, too. He resigned.) Stories of poll officials and their families threatened with death. Stories of plain old poll workers delivering ballots at night and being threateningly pursued by SUVs. Oh, it's ugly.
> 
> It sounds like a lot of these people don't want to come back to their jobs, and Maddow rightly points out the number of Trump types who are just waiting in the wings to fill their spots. I mean, that's the whole idea.
> 
> Merrick Garland has promised to vigorously pursue cases of voter suppression, and he's planning to add to the personnel in that division of DOJ, but it sounds like they still might be woefully understaffed to deal with what might happen in November of 2022. If some of these bastards get in office, how are we supposed to trust that they'll count the votes fairly and legally?
> 
> The slow moving coup is positioning itself for the kill shot.





I expect soon "I'm a patriot" will be tossed out there as a legal defense for breaking the law which will soon be followed by "The extreme communist left wants to make being a patriot illegal"


----------



## Alli

JayMysteri0 said:


> The explainer is literally vintage Maddow, that's made her show interesting. Literally trying to figure out why she's going on about a bankrupt Icelandic airline and it's relevance to anything going on today. To find out the connections & go....



Gotta admit when she started that bit last night I was going WTF? But what an amazing segment.


----------



## Huntn

Thomas Veil said:


> This just gets weirder and weirder. Copies of the Arizona voter data have now been taken to a secretive “lab” in Montana, where they are in the hands of yet another self-styled forensics “expert”.
> 
> I tell ya, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. This has long passed the borders of crooked, stupid and crazy and is now entering the town of Whatthefuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona voting data taken to so-called 'lab' in remote Montana - CNN Video
> 
> 
> CNN's Gary Tuchman takes a closer look why Arizona voting data has been taken by truck to a property near Bigfork, Montana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com



If you care about Democracy, this is the kind of shit that destroys it, if we allow the dispicables to hold office. It all becomes a big sham/stump the dummies exercise, knife in the heart democracy.


----------



## Huntn

Let’s revisit US history and the Civil War. Back then it was _this fight is not about slavery, it’s about State’s  Rights!! Our right to be slave owners. _

Today, we have Republican controlled State Legislatures who are in the process of making voting harder for their constituents/targets who are percieved not to vote for their party,  minorities. So things that used to be ok, like drop boxes, and more leeway to request an absentee ballot, or more liberal voting hours of polls, has been yanked tighter NOT because there was fraud, but because of voter suppression, and instead of using the words _State’s Rights, _their new buzz phrase is_  Don’t Federalize the Vote! _as if it puts _a damper our confidence about a fair vote on our ability to suppress the vote._

How audaciously corrupt and ANTI-DEMOCRATIC can these people be? They can actually look each other and say crap  with a straight face. And all the Southern racists* hate it when outsiders rain on their hate party.

* Not an implication that all Southerners are  racists, or that racists are only found in the South. But it is the South where Republicans predominantly control State Legislatures and are enacting racist legislation. A racist is as a racist does.
In Suing Georgia, Justice Department Says State's New Voting Law Targets Black Voters​








						In Suing Georgia, Justice Department Says State's New Voting Law Targets Black Voters
					

The lawsuit marks the first major action from the Biden administration to combat a series of new restrictive voting measures passed by Republican-led state legislatures.




					www.npr.org


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Huntn said:


> Let’s revisit US history and the Civil War. Back then it was _this fight is not about slavery, it’s about State’s  Rights!! Our right to be slave owners. _
> 
> Today, we have Republican controlled State Legislatures who are in the process of making voting harder for their constituents/targets who are percieved not to vote for their party,  minorities. So things that used to be ok, like drop boxes, and more leeway to request an absentee ballot, or more liberal voting hours of polls, has been yanked tighter NOT because there was fraud, but because of voter suppression, and instead of using the words _State’s Rights, _their new buzz phrase is_  Don’t Federalize the Vote! _as if it puts _a damper our confidence about a fair vote on our ability to suppress the vote._
> 
> How audaciously corrupt and ANTI-DEMOCRATIC can these people be? They can actually look each other and say crap  with a straight face. And all the Southern racists* hate it when outsiders rain on their hate party.
> 
> * Not an implication that all Southerners are  racists, or that racists are only found in the South. But it is the South where Republicans predominantly control State Legislatures and are enacting racist legislation. A racist is as a racist does.
> In Suing Georgia, Justice Department Says State's New Voting Law Targets Black Voters​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Suing Georgia, Justice Department Says State's New Voting Law Targets Black Voters
> 
> 
> The lawsuit marks the first major action from the Biden administration to combat a series of new restrictive voting measures passed by Republican-led state legislatures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.npr.org




They shouldn’t be allowed to just say “It’s not racist” and that ends the debate.

Democrats also shouldn’t be allowed to just lazily fire back with “yes it is”. They need to explain point by point how each measure is racist or suppressing the vote and Republicans need to answer to each.

Republicans need to explain why they are only doing this now after Republican losses.

Republicans need to list every proven case of widespread voter fraud and not be allowed to speak in hypothetical vague terms like “irregularities”.

Democrats have the defeating habit of letting Republicans loudly control the narrative and at best just hope people know they are lying. There are plenty of people who don’t know that and they’re not given a compelling narrative or reason to counter it.


----------



## SuperMatt

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> They shouldn’t be allowed to just say “It’s not racist” and that ends the debate.
> 
> Democrats also shouldn’t be allowed to just lazily fire back with “yes it is”. They need to explain point by point how each measure is racist or suppressing the vote and Republicans need to answer to each.
> 
> Republicans need to explain why they are only doing this now after Republican losses.
> 
> Republicans need to list every proven case of widespread voter fraud and not be allowed to speak in hypothetical vague terms like “irregularities”.
> 
> Democrats have the defeating habit of letting Republicans loudly control the narrative and at best just hope people know they are lying. There are plenty of people who don’t know that and they’re not given a compelling narrative or reason to counter it.



Sounds like you’re advocating for the teaching of CRT which is illegal.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1412730781877911552/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1412561302896078850/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1412734060154310658/


----------



## Alli

Talk about a cult!


----------



## Huntn

Alli said:


> Talk about a cult!



They’re desperate, have lost their minds and more than willing to take the country down if they can’t continue to hold power.


----------



## fooferdoggie

so many republican candidates are running on the sole item of being able to change the elections in favor of republicans.


----------



## Huntn

fooferdoggie said:


> so many republican candidates are running on the sole item of being able to change the elections in favor of republicans.



ELECT US, THE NOT SO BRIGHT, BUT MAKE UP FOR IT WITH CORRUPTION,  LYING, RACISM, DEMOCRACY- KNIFING, AND SPRINKLE ON SOME FASCISM TO BRING YOU KOOLAID DRINKERS THE WIN before we destroy ourselves or the country.


----------



## JayMysteri0

This is horribly disturbing


----------



## Alli

JayMysteri0 said:


> This is horribly disturbing



You’re being way too kind. It’s abhorrent.


----------



## SuperMatt

I didn’t know people on parole couldn’t vote. What a stupid law.


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> I didn’t know people on parole couldn’t vote. What a stupid law.



Seems many of them aren't always aware either.

Also, how do you go from NOT honoring your word on a million dollar payout if someone can find cases of voter fraud, they find multiple cases of republicans doing it, welch on paying out, but want to hit someone else who waited 6 hours to vote unaware they aren't allowed to for a decade bid?

If I'm a lawyer, I'm suing to collect that million dollars NOT paid, and using it for that man's legal defense bills.  To me, if I'm the defense I'm showing Maddow's video as part of defense showing how Paxton's actions are NOT routed in any true effort to prosecute voter fraud.


----------



## lizkat

There seems to be no aspect of or option for voter suppression that this iteration of the GOP is willing to leave behind.   And unfortunately it appears they now often have a majority of the current Supreme Court justices ready to give them a boost when necessary.

The conservative majority on the high court seems to have discovered new levels of difficulty in reading past rulings on and the clear text of all that has not already been pruned out of the Voting Rights Act, and so in effect they were rewriting that act from the bench while addressing the latest Arizona law's stipulations.   A  whole new twist on options for "judicial activism", I guess.

Well at least we have Kagan's plainspoken dissent from the Supreme Court ruling in a recent go-around with Arizona voting law, with Alito writing the majority opinion.    There's a piece in the Guardian about that with a link to a pdf of the ruling with Alito's opinion and Kagin's dissent.









						‘Tragic’: Justice Elena Kagan’s scorching dissent on US voter suppression
					

The supreme court’s conservative wing considerably weakened section 2 of the Voting Rights Act, and Kagan didn’t hold back




					www.theguardian.com
				




From the wrap: 



> “The majority’s opinion mostly inhabits a law-free zone. It congratulates itself in advance for giving section 2’s text ‘careful consideration’. And then it leaves that language almost wholly behind. (Every once in a while, when its lawmaking threatens to leap off the page, it thinks to sprinkle in a few random statutory words),” she writes. “The majority instead founds its decision on a list of mostly made-up factors, at odds with section 2 itself.”




Well at least there's a trail of well toasted bread crumbs back to when this sort of mischief got the nod [again, for awhile? or until Congress gets off its behind and legislates a stronger Voting Rights Act to replace the gutted and now further maimed one we already had].   It becomes ever more clear that the high court should not have stripped out federal oversight of changes to state voting laws when it did.   Contrary to the majority opinion offered up then,  the idea that such oversight was no longer needed appears to have been an illusion.

The obvious solution is to re-legislate the equivalent of the original Voting Rights Act of the Johnson era,  but  the Republicans already managed to put the kibosh on one such effort back in June,  and are apparently mostly opposed as well to the John Lewis Voting Rights Act.

Sigh.  Well, as a guy who used to be my boss said one night after learning that a freak error in operations that evening had wiped out the source code on hundreds of modules of our work,   "Hey if we did it once,  we can do it again." 

The only recourse Americans have now to regain some semblance of equal rights to vote --since the high court is backing up the red states' take on yet more restrictions in voting laws (and vote-counting procedures)--   is for Congress to put teeth back in the equivalent of our Voting Rights Act. 

The Republican state legislatures' efforts to "eliminate fraud" are not evenhanded in their potential effect on the overall electorate.   In fact the RNC's national chair made it clear at their most recent winter retreat that the GOP's aim is "never to have another election like this" after the 2020 Biden-Harris election.   The only way the state chairs seem to think they can get there is to try for legal suppression of millions of votes next time around...  even if some of those votes might actually have gone for Republican candidates.

It's time to phone Congress critters and tell them to work harder to shore up federal guarantee of our voting rights.


----------



## SuperMatt

lizkat said:


> There seems to be no aspect of or option for voter suppression that this iteration of the GOP is willing to leave behind.   And unfortunately it appears they now often have a majority of the current Supreme Court justices ready to give them a boost when necessary.
> 
> The conservative majority on the high court seems to have discovered new levels of difficulty in reading past rulings on and the clear text of all that has not already been pruned out of the Voting Rights Act, and so in effect they were rewriting that act from the bench while addressing the latest Arizona law's stipulations.   A  whole new twist on options for "judicial activism", I guess.
> 
> Well at least we have Kagan's plainspoken dissent from the Supreme Court ruling in a recent go-around with Arizona voting law, with Alito writing the majority opinion.    There's a piece in the Guardian about that with a link to a pdf of the ruling with Alito's opinion and Kagin's dissent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Tragic’: Justice Elena Kagan’s scorching dissent on US voter suppression
> 
> 
> The supreme court’s conservative wing considerably weakened section 2 of the Voting Rights Act, and Kagan didn’t hold back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the wrap:
> 
> 
> 
> Well at least there's a trail of well toasted bread crumbs back to when this sort of mischief got the nod [again, for awhile? or until Congress gets off its behind and legislates a stronger Voting Rights Act to replace the gutted and now further maimed one we already had].   It becomes ever more clear that the high court should not have stripped out federal oversight of changes to state voting laws when it did.   Contrary to the majority opinion offered up then,  the idea that such oversight was no longer needed appears to have been an illusion.
> 
> The obvious solution is to re-legislate the equivalent of the original Voting Rights Act of the Johnson era,  but  the Republicans already managed to put the kibosh on one such effort back in June,  and are apparently mostly opposed as well to the John Lewis Voting Rights Act.
> 
> Sigh.  Well, as a guy who used to be my boss said one night after learning that a freak error in operations that evening had wiped out the source code on hundreds of modules of our work,   "Hey if we did it once,  we can do it again."
> 
> The only recourse Americans have now to regain some semblance of equal rights to vote --since the high court is backing up the red states' take on yet more restrictions in voting laws (and vote-counting procedures)--   is for Congress to put teeth back in the equivalent of our Voting Rights Act.
> 
> The Republican state legislatures' efforts to "eliminate fraud" are not evenhanded in their potential effect on the overall electorate.   In fact the RNC's national chair made it clear at their most recent winter retreat that the GOP's aim is "never to have another election like this" after the 2020 Biden-Harris election.   The only way the state chairs seem to think they can get there is to try for legal suppression of millions of votes next time around...  even if some of those votes might actually have gone for Republican candidates.
> 
> It's time to phone Congress critters and tell them to work harder to shore up federal guarantee of our voting rights.



I have a few thoughts about Justice Roberts and his BS confirmation hearing where we got to hear that he was against judicial activism. What could be more activist than striking down a law enacted by a unanimous Congress to preserve the right to vote with the justification that HE thinks racism is over. Being on the court seriously went to his head.

Post in thread 'Toyota supports politicians who favour insurrections'
https://talkedabout.com/threads/toyota-supports-politicians-who-favour-insurrections.1587/post-50047


----------



## JayMysteri0

FFS

Just SUE these Arizona republicans back under the rock they crawled out of, along with the cyber ninjas already.








> In Arizona recount fight, Maricopa County and Dominion Voting Systems defy new subpoenas by state Senate
> 
> 
> "The board has real work to do and little time to entertain this adventure in never-never land," Board of Supervisors Chairman Jack Sellers wrote.
> 
> 
> 
> www.usatoday.com





> Board chair: "The board has real work to do and little time to entertain this adventure in never-never land."
> It's unlikely a judge would force the supervisors and the company to comply.
> Maricopa County, Arizona, supervisors and Dominion Voting Systems refused to produce additional election material on Monday in response to new subpoenas filed by the Arizona Senate in the state's contentious, ongoing audit of the 2020 presidential election.
> 
> The subpoenas, issued July 26 by Republican Senate leaders, demanded that representatives for the county Board of Supervisors and Dominion appear and produce the materials by 1 p.m. Monday at the state Capitol.
> 
> Instead, county officials and a Dominion attorney sent Senate President Karen Fann a letter outlining why they will not comply. However, county officials said they will work with the Senate to provide some documents sought via a public-records request.
> 
> After three months, the audit of Arizona's 2020 election results has surfaced no evidence of widespread voter fraud, even as former president Donald Trump and his supporters say otherwise and misinformation circulates on social media.





Those mccarthy flashbacks are getting stronger all the time.


----------



## JayMysteri0

And here we goooooo....



> Georgia Republicans didn’t waste any time in using their new voter suppression law
> 
> 
> Republicans have begun a legal process that could allow them to disenfranchise much of Atlanta.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vox.com





> In March, Georgia Republicans passed SB 202, a sweeping new election law that erects obstacles between Georgia voters and their right to cast a ballot. While some are relatively minor or even popular, the most ominous provisions of this new law allow the state election board, which is dominated by Republicans, to seize control of county election boards. Those boards can disqualify voters, move polling precincts, and potentially even refuse to certify an election count.
> 
> The letters from Republican lawmakers are the first step in the legal process Republicans may use to take over elections in Fulton County, the most populous county in the state, which encompasses most of Atlanta. In 2020, nearly 73 percent of Fulton County voters cast a ballot for President Joe Biden. Biden won the county by nearly a quarter-million votes, enough to push him ahead of former President Donald Trump in a state decided by 11,779 votes overall.
> 
> Both letters ask the state elections board to begin a “performance review” of the local officials who oversee elections in Fulton County. The senators claim that such a review is justified because “nearly 200 ballots were scanned twice last fall” during the initial vote count in Fulton — a claim that was previously featured on Tucker Carlson’s show.
> 
> The reality is much more nuanced, and it suggests that the state’s existing systems worked exactly as they were supposed to work. Although nearly 200 ballots were double-counted during the first count of Fulton County’s ballots, Georgia conducted both a machine recount and a hand recount of all its ballots, given how close the statewide result was. And there’s no evidence that any ballots were counted twice in the final tallies that showed Biden ahead of Trump.
> 
> It appears likely that a poll worker in Fulton County made a minor clerical error, and this error was corrected in the subsequent recounts.





> Nevertheless, it is probably inevitable that the GOP-controlled state elections board will open an investigation into Fulton County. And once this investigation concludes, the state board can use it as a pretext to remove Fulton County’s local elections board and replace it with a temporary superintendent who can undermine voting within that county.
> 
> Georgia law provides, for example, that any voter in Fulton County “may challenge the right of any other elector of the county or municipality, whose name appears on the list of electors, to vote in an election.” If Republicans appoint a temporary superintendent in Fulton, that GOP official will adjudicate these challenges. That means that Republicans could potentially flood the zone with frivolous voting challenges — which could be sustained by a partisan superintendent.
> 
> The outcome of Georgia’s 2022 statewide elections, in other words, may not be determined by the state’s voters. It could hinge on a sham investigation into Fulton County’s election administration — and by a partisan board’s subsequent decision to place a partisan official in charge of counting most of the votes in Atlanta.




From the group worried about election integrity, brings the actions based on absolutely NO integrity.


----------



## Yoused

We found a hardcore Individual-ONE loyalist in DoJ

*By late December, as (CFSG) and his allies pushed conspiracies about alleged irregularities that he claimed stole the election from him, Clark told senior Justice officials that he knew of sensitive information that indicated Chinese intelligence used special kinds of thermometers to change results in machines tallying votes, people briefed on the matter said.*​
("thermometers" means IoT digital thermostats)


----------



## Thomas Veil

This is just savage. Bill Maher on why Republicans continue to perpetuate The Big Lie.






It’s jarring to see Bill explain just how utterly unskilled and unqualified you can be and still be a Congressman.


----------



## Roller

Thomas Veil said:


> This is just savage. Bill Maher on why Republicans continue to perpetuate The Big Lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s jarring to see Bill explain just how utterly unskilled and unqualified you can be and still be a Congressman.



It's worse when you consider people like Lauren Boebert, whose _record of transgressions_ would be enough to disqualify her from almost any other job. Others — Matt Gaetz, Paul Gosar, Mo Brooks, and Marjorie Taylor Greene come to mind — aren't far behind. They are horrible human beings, but their constituents clearly think they're worthy of their support.


----------



## Huntn

Thomas Veil said:


> This is just savage. Bill Maher on why Republicans continue to perpetuate The Big Lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s jarring to see Bill explain just how utterly unskilled and unqualified you can be and still be a Congressman.



Why I love Bill Maher: Congress: _There is no other job where morons get paid to ride around in a limo._

Gee “stupid“ effects more than just beating COVID.    Most here have figured this out, while the Republican power structure is busy trying to dismantle the country for its benefit.

The bar is really low in GOP country to place sweet sounding hucksters and co-Koolaid drinkers in charge of the voluntary self destruction movement. Maybe the feeling is _if I can’t have my way, then burn it down,_ but maybe I’m giving the yoyos too much credit to actually realize what they are advocating.


----------



## JayMysteri0

I present to you, one minute of crazy & incoherence...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1425140025700847620/


----------



## Thomas Veil




----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1425841737176600581/



> Police report filed after MyPillow CEO ‘attacked’ at South Dakota hotel
> 
> 
> ‘You’ve got to realize, I’ve been in all walks of life, I’ve had guns to my head, swords to my throat,’ Lindell says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Thomas Veil

And now that the symposium 3-day rant is over and he once again has failed to show any proof, he’s blaming Antifa. Somehow they “sabotaged” him.

If not for the fortune he’s made from his freaking pillows, he’d be that mentally ill guy living under a bridge, raving about people who aren’t there.


----------



## Alli

The pillow guy has quite the imagination. Maybe he should try fiction.


----------



## fooferdoggie

Alli said:


> The pillow guy has quite the imagination. Maybe he should try fiction.



I thought he already is doing that? today is the day trump is due back in office.


----------



## Alli

fooferdoggie said:


> I thought he already is doing that? today is the day trump is due back in office.



Maybe I should go turn on the news. I don’t want to miss a minute of it!


----------



## Pumbaa

So, did Biden & Harris resign yet? Or will that be later today?


----------



## JayMysteri0




----------



## Thomas Veil

Remember this video? This was the MSNBC calling the 2016 presidential election for...well, you know.





​I'm not suggesting you click on it. I wouldn't give them the pleasure. But if you recall, it's followed by tons of trolls about "butt hurt Clinton voters" having to watch the election being called for Trump the Tyrant, and oh, isn't it beautiful owning the libs.

I just put it up here to point out that *we got over it*. They think this is great entertainment. And yet here we are, more than a half year after the 2020 election, and they're still flying their Trump flags, pretending to recount votes, crying foul because the courts don't agree with their evidence-free challenges, and even possibly forming a second seditious insurrection.

The difference is night and day. We had ourselves a good cry and moved on, but they're stuck in neutral, trying to rerun the 2020 election. 

Not to mention that the Slow Moving Coup is still going on--even without Donny at the helm.

I guess this is just me gloating back. That video sure didn't age well.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1426952073027932161/


----------



## lizkat

This Republican state legislator's certainly slow on the uptake of facts, considering we're almost ten months down the road from poll-closing on the 2020 elections.









						Pa. GOP lawmaker says the cause for a forensic election investigation is 'weakened and diminished' - Pennsylvania Capital-Star
					

Sen. Doug Mastriano's, announcement came during a Thursday morning  Facebook live stream before an audience of more than 1,000 supporters.




					www.penncapital-star.com
				






> Mastriano, a staunch supporter of former President Donald Trump, announced plans to pursue a “forensic investigation” into Pennsylvania’s 2020 general and 2021 primary elections in July. He made a sweeping request for voting equipment and election information from York, Tioga, and Philadelphia counties.
> 
> However, the three counties — two of them reliably Republican areas, and one Democratic stronghold — refused to comply, citing the cost of replacing election equipment and a directive from the Department of State prohibiting third-party access to voting machines.




It would seem that the committee Matriano had tried to farm his proposed investigation out to, one which doesn't usually do election oversight anyway, may have been helped by state GOP leaders higher up the food chain to decide just not to go there.

Oh, and he deleted that Facebook livestream once news of its existence started to go viral.



> But on Thursday, Mastriano, without offering evidence or specific details, told followers: “The powers-that-be made sure that didn’t happen.”
> 
> “We’re not in a very good spot right now,” he said. “I put my name out there to get it done, and I’ve been stopped for the time being. If there’s a way I could do it without being stopped, a way around this momentary impediment, you know I would find it.”
> 
> Mastriano, who did not respond to a request for comment, opted not to explain how his proposed investigation reached a stall during the stream. Instead, he cited a “betrayal” from a group that worked with him to advocate for the review. He did not identify the group.
> 
> “I’ve warned these ladies — don’t let it get to your head,” he said. “Watch out for pride. Remember those who helped you get there, and it’s already forgotten. The star will burn out.”




Ah, so it's some women who have decided to stand in the way of these antics.  Interesting.


----------



## Huntn

_FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! _No fraud. _FOR MY WIN! Fuck you very much.   _








						Texas House Passes Voting Rights Restrictions Despite Democrats’ Efforts
					

Democratic lawmakers left Texas to stall voting on a Republican-backed voter suppression bill, but enough of them returned for the legislation to pass.




					www.huffpost.com


----------



## SuperMatt

Meanwhile, stories of *actual* voter fraud have nothing to do with voter IDs, mail-in voting, drop boxes, early voting, drive-in voting, or anything the Republicans claim are a problem.

It turns out that disciples of Mike Lindell who work for the government are abusing their positions to allow tampering with voting machines and theft of the passwords for them. Oh and she may have “lost" 500 ballots in a prior election.  Ladies and gentlemen, I present Tina Peters, Mesa County (of Colorado) Clerk and Recorder:









						Mesa County commissioners to embattled clerk in hiding: "Come home"
					

Rural Colorado county officials pled with community members to pass along a message to their missing-in-action county clerk who is being investigated for an election security breach: “Come home.” Mesa County commissioners made their plea Tuesday during a meeting attended by supporters of Mesa...




					coloradosun.com
				




My guess is that somebody handed her a bottle of water while she was in line at the DMV and that caused her to do this. See how dangerous it is to give people water? Almost as dangerous as it is to give kids lunch. What a slippery slope!!!


----------



## Thomas Veil

He’s not the biggest name in the Traitor Caucus, but Madison Cawthorn is fixing to be one of the most dangerous.

*Cawthorn talks of 'bloodshed' over future elections as he pushes voting lies*









						Rep. Cawthorn talks of 'bloodshed' over future elections as he pushes voting lies
					

Republican Rep. Madison Cawthorn on Sunday suggested there could be "bloodshed" over future elections as he pushed false claims about election security and voter fraud.




					www.cnn.com
				






> "And I will tell you, as much as I am willing to defend our liberty at all costs, there's nothing that I would dread doing more than having to pick up arms against a fellow American. And the way that we can have recourse against that is if we all passionately demand that we have election security in all 50 states," the North Carolina Republican continued.




The guy is actually advocating that a violent revolution may be “necessary” to support the Big Lie…which is in turn is simply the belief that white right wing males automatically deserve to win elections.

Wow.

This is the kind of thing that ought to earn you a visit from the FBI—at least.


----------



## JayMysteri0

An update on the ninja clown shit show that is the Arizona audit








> Trump’s Plot to Steal Arizona Was Even Wilder Than We Thought
> 
> 
> A massive data dump of emails, texts, and documents show Trump’s allies were heavily involved in the bogus Arizona audit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vice.com




Oh, a reminder



> He Tried to Steal Arizona for Trump. Then He Got Locked Out of the Building.
> 
> 
> Ken Bennett leaked data from the recount, and hasn't been allowed back in the building for five days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vice.com





> The man who has been overseeing the bogus election audit taking place in Maricopa County in Arizona has been unable to get into the building where the recount is taking place for the last five days. But he doesn’t think that’s a big problem.
> 
> Ken Bennett, a former Republican secretary of state, was appointed as the Senate’s point-person to independently oversee the audit conducted by the Florida-based company Cyber Ninjas, which has no previous experience of running an election audit.
> 
> Last Friday, security guards stopped Bennett from entering the building at the state fairgrounds where the audit is being conducted, after he leaked initial results from the current ballot recount to outside experts—a leak that proved the ballot totals lined up with the original results from Maricopa County officials, and undermined the claims of widespread election fraud
> 
> But when Bennett spoke to VICE News on Monday evening, he wasn’t concerned about his inability to oversee the audit process, claiming he had not resigned and was working with Arizona Senate President Karen Fann to “to work out a way for me to continue to move forward and act as liaison.”
> 
> When asked if his inability to see how the latest recount was taking place would impact his ability to verify the audit results, Bennett said: “No, no, no, not at all.” He added that the recount was “under the direction of one of the other assistant liaisons.”
> 
> That other assistant liaison is Randy Pullen, the person who reportedly blocked Bennett’s entrance to the audit on Friday. Bennett said he “thinks it was one of the other Senate liaisons,” who prevented him accessing the audit site “but that's not completely clear yet.”


----------



## JayMysteri0

Mr lunacy

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1434317758611828736/


----------



## Thomas Veil

JayMysteri0 said:


> An update on the ninja clown shit show that is the Arizona audit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, a reminder



No way anyone saw this coming.

I am *so* surprised.


----------



## JayMysteri0

At this point if he's not a flaming idiot, he's trolling to see if those that follow him are

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1437786445301829646/

"Now I'm just waiting for us to get the all AG positions so we can take this made up case in front of a friendly Supreme Court.  If we have everyone in our pocket, I believe we stand a strong chance with this case."


----------



## SuperMatt

Now Pennsylvania wants in on the crazy?



			https://wapo.st/3EwQxsH
		




> Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania on Wednesday approved subpoenas for a wide range of data and personal information on voters, advancing a probe of the 2020 election in a key battleground state former president Donald Trump has repeatedly targeted with baseless claims of fraud.
> 
> The move drew a sharp rebuke from Democrats who described the effort as insecure and unwarranted and said they would consider mounting a court fight. Among other requests, Republicans are seeking the names, dates of birth, driver’s license numbers, last four digits of Social Security numbers, addresses and methods of voting for millions of people who cast ballots in the May primary and the November general election.



Do we have a right to privacy in America?


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Now Pennsylvania wants in on the crazy?
> 
> 
> 
> https://wapo.st/3EwQxsH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do we have a right to privacy in America?



I don’t see how they can possibly get away with this. We are guaranteed a private ballot.


----------



## Thomas Veil

*Seriously?* Trump is still writing letters to Raffensperger asking him to decertify the election?









						Trump sends letter to Raffensperger asking to decertify election - CNN Video
					

Maggie Haberman weighs in on former President Donald Trump's latest attempt to have the 2020 election overturned.




					www.cnn.com
				




I don’t know whether to  or  . Whatever it is, it ain’t 4-D chess. The man is just nuts.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Surprise!

*(Cyber Ninjas) Hand count in Arizona affirms Biden defeated Trump in 2020 election, audit draft report says*









						Hand count in Arizona (again) affirms Biden won 2020 election, draft version of audit report says
					

A monthslong hand recount of the count in Arizona's largest county once again confirmed President Joe Biden won the 2020 election over Donald Trump.



					www.usatoday.com
				






> A monthslong hand recount of the count in Arizona's largest county once again confirmed President Joe Biden won the 2020 election and the race was not “stolen” from former President Donald Trump, according to early versions of a report prepared for the Arizona Senate.




In fact, they came up with a few hundred more votes for Biden. 

So what was this whole exercise for? Throwing some public money at a favored GOP business owner? Or are they still going to try to claim the process was tainted somehow?


----------



## JayMysteri0

Thomas Veil said:


> Surprise!
> 
> *(Cyber Ninjas) Hand count in Arizona affirms Biden defeated Trump in 2020 election, audit draft report says*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hand count in Arizona (again) affirms Biden won 2020 election, draft version of audit report says
> 
> 
> A monthslong hand recount of the count in Arizona's largest county once again confirmed President Joe Biden won the 2020 election over Donald Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> www.usatoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, they came up with a few hundred more votes for Biden.
> 
> So what was this whole exercise for? Throwing some public money at a favored GOP business owner? Or are they still going to try to claim the process was tainted somehow?



It was always about bilking any sucker for money.  The beauty of the grift is that it fleeced hopeful suckers that always knew the truth, but had access to gov't money to spend on that hope.  The same suckers who decry gov't waste, but used it for themselves to suck up to their base & orange golden Florida calf to hopefully stay in power.  It was a nice circle jerk that benefitted a few, and not the constituents who could have used that money for far better things.

For the former con man in charge it's all about eroding trust in elections so that when he & his sycophants run & lose, it's always because there was something wrong.  Distrust in elections keeps them relevant, keeps them able to fleece even more dollars.

Now the interesting thing will be to see if anything changes between when the news of that report leaked out, and 1PM when they have their press conference.  They have a lot of questions to face.  Like the ones you asked, which everyone should ask, but also a hopeful band of suckers who went in on this on the promise of supposed cheating when there was NO evidence.  Will something suddenly come up to justify continuing the grift at the last minute?  I'm sure there isn't a country the ninjas haven't cast suspicion on involving this election.


----------



## GermanSuplex

So a joke of an “audit” that lasted way too long, based on nothing but Trump’s lies, reaffirmed what we already knew. In fact, they think Biden won by a few more points than he did in the official count. What a joke.

Well Cyber Ninjas, it was nice knowing you.

Republican officials in Arizona will just say “we just wanted to be sure!”, and the cult will no doubt blast Cyber Ninjas, and demand an audit of the audit.


----------



## Edd

Wonder if this pumps the brakes on any additional audits. I assume the move will be to deny this recount is legit or ignore it altogether. I think I’ll peek at Breitbart to see that the crazies are saying.

Edit: Nothing on Brietbart about the AZ audit. Weird, I thought they were very interested in that .


----------



## Pumbaa

Edd said:


> Wonder if this pumps the brakes on any additional audits. I assume the move will be to deny this recount is legit or ignore it altogether. I think I’ll peek at Breitbart to see that the crazies are saying.
> 
> Edit: Nothing on Brietbart about the AZ audit. Weird, I thought they were very interested in that .



Given the possibility to spin it as “Sure, the vote counts were correct, but we found lots of flaws so the ballots could’ve been problematic meaning the election was still stolen and here’s how to fix that!” it probably isn’t dead yet.


----------



## SuperMatt

Edd said:


> Wonder if this pumps the brakes on any additional audits. I assume the move will be to deny this recount is legit or ignore it altogether. I think I’ll peek at Breitbart to see that the crazies are saying.
> 
> Edit: Nothing on Brietbart about the AZ audit. Weird, I thought they were very interested in that .



I just looked at Fox News and I don’t see any mention of the Arizona audit there either.


----------



## lizkat

Whole thing has been a complete circus --I mean when officials in both major parties have said that that auditor is unqualified, then... hello?? why was even it permitted to continue???

And like a lot of other Trump-related calls for recounts and audits,  the Maricopa County one was always and only meant to throw the very idea of "election integrity" into doubt for future occasions... when some states hope to be able to rely on recent legislation that may make it possible to throw a "questioned" election into the arms of a partisan arbiter instead of how it works now with bipartisan election boards or commissions certifying results to their respective secretaries of state.

This stuff really makes me hot under the collar, far more so than all the other stupid antics of this version of the GOP.   

The GOP's other circus tricks (disparaging the institution of impeachment, for instance, by their inappropriate behavior during the efforts of the House twice bothering to take Trump down that road while he was President) were distractions and meant to demean the Democrats.  

But this?  This gig of laying groundwork to make it not just plausible but possible to ditch an incorrect_*unwanted*_ election outcome is assault on one of the pillars of our democracy. 

 I'm hoping all these hard right legislative switcheroos in the mechanics of how election results are certified get taken to court well before 2022 races are called.    These are different to the sometimes excessive and oppressive changes in potential voters' access to the ballot, like trying to make it hard to cast a vote to begin with.    Some of the new laws are saying in effect, " go ahead and cast your damn vote but if the totals stack up to a loss that Rs don't like,  we're going to call it the other way because our new certification process will let us do exactly that."

And that's basically what Ronna McDaniel, the then newly reaffirmed head of the RNC, had said in their last winter meeting...  that the Republicans would never again allow another "election like this one".    At the state level, ever since then, they've gone about trying to guarantee it in advance.


----------



## Alli

Edd said:


> Wonder if this pumps the brakes on any additional audits. I assume the move will be to deny this recount is legit or ignore it altogether. I think I’ll peek at Breitbart to see that the crazies are saying.



It would be particularly nice if this helps stop the insanity in PA.


----------



## JayMysteri0

lizkat said:


> And that's basically what Ronna McDaniel, the then newly reaffirmed head of the RNC, had said in their last winter meeting...  that the Republicans would never again allow another "election like this one".    At the state level, ever since then, they've gone about trying to guarantee it in advance.



https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1441468346625667076/

Ronna McDaniel today, with no mention of the most important thing.

That Biden did win.  Biden did win legitimately.  Which kind of shoots in the foot claims of lack of trust, when hired circus monkeys arrive at the same results.  It becomes clear that reality and 'r' world are never to mix again, if reality gets in their way.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1441472575138373633/


----------



## MEJHarrison

JayMysteri0 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1441468346625667076/




I'm very concerned now and I'd like to hear more.  In particular, I'd like to know exactly how it was that these failures led them having secure elections.

Was it a perfect storm of nothingness?  Did all those various types of fraud all cancel each other out?  Did we get the numbers from one re-count, but the summary from another?


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1441527475725475841/

Truly summing up this whole thread.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Let's review the basic problems here with this guy...

1.  They actually did NOT prove there was any fraud, they just said there was fraud "everywhere", so there must have been.  If they had proven it, I think we would have heard that.  Instead we heard that Biden did indeed win.

2.  We did hear they found problems.  Problems we've heard in other elections that 'r's didn't have an issue with.

3. "Bureaucracy may have other plans..." is a frightening & revealing admission.

4.  This is a member of congress.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1441835577779769348/


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> Let's review the basic problems here with this guy...
> 
> 1.  They actually did NOT prove there was any fraud, they just said there was fraud "everywhere", so there must have been.  If they had proven it, I think we would have heard that.  Instead we heard that Biden did indeed win.
> 
> 2.  We did hear they found problems.  Problems we've heard in other elections that 'r's didn't have an issue with.
> 
> 3. "Bureaucracy may have other plans..." is a frightening & revealing admission.
> 
> 4.  This is a member of congress.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1441835577779769348/



Is he drunk? His head is flopping around so oddly…


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> Is he drunk? His head is flopping around so oddly…



In some other comments, someone mentions that there are rumors he has Parkinson's and has been hiding it from the public.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Now the question is have they passed enough voter suppression laws (that will continue to stand) that will counter all their Trump Covid deaths?  Seems God may be pro democracy.  Maybe that’s God’s plan for you, remove you from being able to vote…the real voter purge.


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> Let's review the basic problems here with this guy...
> 
> 1.  They actually did NOT prove there was any fraud, they just said there was fraud "everywhere", so there must have been.  If they had proven it, I think we would have heard that.  Instead we heard that Biden did indeed win.
> 
> 2.  We did hear they found problems.  Problems we've heard in other elections that 'r's didn't have an issue with.
> 
> 3. "Bureaucracy may have other plans..." is a frightening & revealing admission.
> 
> 4.  This is a member of congress.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1441835577779769348/





I find it distressing that an American congressman will actually post something on social media suggesting there's even a constitutional possibility of having a presidential election do-over in the USA,  like a snap election in a parliamentary system...   all just because the results of the 2020 election didn't suit the losers' expectations. 

What, the insurrection didn't "fix" the problem, so next step is just schedule an ad hoc do-over and hope the voter suppression legislation and curve-ball fine print of who gets to certify results will install "the former guy" as prez again before the midterms?

 The Republican Party leadership makes a grave mistake letting its officials try to take the party's followers down this fantasy road.   Sure, tweets can be deleted or more sober members can fashion corrective public remarks and op-ed pieces,  but the impression remains that the GOP has abandoned the guardrails of democracy and nowadays just stands by,  watching its elected officials mock the very constitution they swore to uphold.

Place to put yer money is on turn-out-the-vote efforts for 2022.  Free rides to registration.  Free help verifying one's reggie is in order before deadlines to cure faulty registration data.   Help the ACLU fund availability and awareness of legal assistance and counsel,  before and during the vote,  and during the counting and certification process.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Dafuq!

They are like a fungus or communal STD

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1442236737107869697/

"We couldn't win in our own rigged courts, so EVERY election we lost MUST be rigged!!"

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1442246781295685633/

So much winning.


----------



## JayMysteri0




----------



## Thomas Veil

Ya know, maybe it's time to stop dicking around and start arresting people like Gosar on charges of conspiracy to subvert the election process and by extension the Constitution.


----------



## Huntn

In the current drive a stake in the heart of Democracy, NPR reports that Texas Republicans are busy gerrymandering districts, consolidating Democratic strongholds into fewer districts to give the GoZP a decided advantage that could last a decade. This shit must stop and can only be corrected by some level of revolution when those in charge of State governments cheat as needed to hold onto power.  

Related:
https://tagtx.org/about-gerrymandering/gerrymandering-in-texes/


----------



## JayMysteri0

> Giuliani admits his election fraud "evidence" came from social media
> 
> 
> Giuliani also admitted he never fact checked any of the claims — that would have made him a "terrible lawyer"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.salon.com


----------



## JayMysteri0

The guy can't actually find any illegal voting on his own, won't pay up when shown examples of illegal voting by republicans, but he sure does want to punish illegal voting.  



> Abbott calls for Texas legislature to increase penalty for illegal voting
> 
> 
> Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) is calling on state lawmakers to stiffen the penalties for illegal voting.A sweeping elections bill signed into law last month lowered illegal voting in Texas from a seco…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thehill.com





> Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) is calling on state lawmakers to stiffen the penalties for illegal voting.
> 
> A sweeping elections bill signed into law last month lowered illegal voting in Texas from a second degree felony to a Class A misdemeanor. That change was scheduled to take effect in December.
> 
> But in a message to the secretary of the state Senate on Thursday, Abbott urged lawmakers, now in a special session, to take up legislation that would effectively reverse that change.
> 
> “The State of Texas has made tremendous progress in upholding the integrity of our elections,” he said in a statement. “By increasing penalties for illegal voting, we will send an even clearer message that voter fraud will not be tolerated in Texas.”
> 
> A Class A misdemeanor can include up to a year in prison, but can also simply result in a fine. By comparison, a second-degree felony in Texas can come with a sentence of as much as 20 years in prison.
> 
> Abbott’s call is only the latest in a series of election-related moves by Texas Republicans. Last month, he signed into law Senate Bill 1, a sweeping measure that seeks to tighten state election laws and restrict local control over the process.




 I wonder who the punishment is really intended for?


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> The guy can't actually find any illegal voting on his own, won't pay up when shown examples of illegal voting by republicans, but he sure does want to punish illegal voting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder who the punishment is really intended for?



Change the election laws every year so that nobody can keep up with them, and increase the penalty for breaking them to 20 years in prison. What could possibly go wrong? Or I guess in the minds of the white supremacists like Abbott, what could possibly go right?


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Change the election laws every year so that nobody can keep up with them, and increase the penalty for breaking them to 20 years in prison. What could possibly go wrong? Or I guess in the minds of the white supremacists like Abbott, what could possibly go right?



Maybe that’s why the governor of AL wants to put all that Covid recovery money into the prison system….


----------



## Alli

Alli said:


> Maybe that’s why the governor of AL wants to put all that Covid recovery money into the prison system….



And as if on queue:


----------



## Huntn

Alli said:


> Maybe that’s why the governor of AL wants to put all that Covid recovery money into the prison system….



Can governors do whatever they want with that money from the Feds? If so, that was an error on someone’s part Imo.


----------



## Huntn

In this title I remove the last word “(Fail)“ because that term may no longer be applicable. The groundwork for Stealing Elections is accelerating by entrenched Republicans after the 2020 election and Mr. Despicable’s  loss.  At the same time I’m wondering if that FUCKER will ever go to jail or is he just another Whopper that got away from our “Justice Dept”.


----------



## SuperMatt

Huntn said:


> Can governors do whatever they want with that money from the Feds? If so, that was an error on someone’s part Imo.



I believe the money was to cover any shortfalls due to economic woes caused by the pandemic. So I am guessing she may be legally allowed to use the funds in that way. However, it’s either tone-deaf or an intentional F*&# You to use it on prisons, considering the rampant spread of the disease within prisons.

*The cruelty is the point.*


----------



## Alli

Huntn said:


> Can governors do whatever they want with that money from the Feds? If so, that was an error on someone’s part Imo.






SuperMatt said:


> I believe the money was to cover any shortfalls due to economic woes caused by the pandemic. So I am guessing she may be legally allowed to use the funds in that way. However, it’s either tone-deaf or an intentional F*&# You to use it on prisons, considering the rampant spread of the disease within prisons.
> 
> *The cruelty is the point.*




They have a broad scope as to what they can use the money for, but it is supposed to be pandemic-related in some manner. This particular proposal is getting a lot of heat, and I hope she’s nailed for even suggesting it.


----------



## Thomas Veil

In the latest chapter of “Heads I Win, Tails You Lose”…

 I knew that a few years ago my state had established a non-partisan redistricting system, to my great relief.

What I didn’t know was that the GOP had built in an escape clause…









						Ohio Republicans plow ahead with go-it-alone redistricting — despite gerrymandering limits
					

The GOP-controlled state legislature plans to pass a new congressional map this week that shreds two Democratic seats, but it will only stand for the next four years.




					www.politico.com
				




Ohio Republicans plow ahead with go-it-alone redistricting — despite gerrymandering limits​


> The constitutional amendment passed three years ago gave state legislators a choice: Pass new district lines that earn support from both parties, and they will stand for the full decade.





> * If the map passes on a party-line vote, it will only be in effect for the next two elections and need to be replaced in four years.*




You see their plan, don’t you? Expecting a GOP lock over the next two elections, they’re planning on rubber stamping this every-four-years thing in perpetuity.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Eraserhead

Thomas Veil said:


> In the latest chapter of “Heads I Win, Tails You Lose”…
> 
> I knew that a few years ago my state had established a non-partisan redistricting system, to my great relief.
> 
> What I didn’t know was that the GOP had built in an escape clause…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio Republicans plow ahead with go-it-alone redistricting — despite gerrymandering limits
> 
> 
> The GOP-controlled state legislature plans to pass a new congressional map this week that shreds two Democratic seats, but it will only stand for the next four years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohio Republicans plow ahead with go-it-alone redistricting — despite gerrymandering limits​
> 
> 
> 
> You see their plan, don’t you? Expecting a GOP lock over the next two elections, they’re planning on rubber stamping this every-four-years thing in perpetuity.



The Democratic Party needs to paint the MSM as untrustworthy fake news and to also be much more aggressive about getting its point across and how individual voters benefit.


----------



## lizkat

Eraserhead said:


> The Democratic Party needs to paint the MSM as untrustworthy fake news and to also be much more aggressive about getting its point across and how individual voters benefit.




Clear clue the Dem honchos are still Clintonistas if they haven't even figured that much out about the so-called liberal media,   ever since the NYT practically ignored Bernie Sanders during the 2016 primaries until his rallies were almost "too big to fail...."   uh, too big to keep shoving onto page A14.


----------



## Huntn

Eraserhead said:


> The Democratic Party needs to paint the MSM as untrustworthy fake news and to also be much more aggressive about getting its point across and how individual voters benefit.



Mainstream media is the only support liberal polices get. So how does that work exactly?


----------



## lizkat

Huntn said:


> Mainstream media is the only support liberal polices get. So how does that work exactly




Not that well from POV of progressives, although the conservatives are also unhappy, so...  

The job of news media is not to support "sides" in politics anyway.  Media outlets seem to think if they're at least somewhat critical of almost _everything,_ that means they're "neutral".

 But their job was never to be neutral either.  More of them should stick to the 'who, what, where, when"...   and leave the "why" out except for opinion columns and clearly marked analysis.

And that means, in news articles or televised news segments, quit quoting the soundbites of pols essentially hoping to air campaign speech material for free.


----------



## Yoused

This is just nuts









						Americans Chasing Down Trump’s Wild Election Conspiracy Snuck into a Mafia Prison in Italy
					

The Italian bureau of prisons has launched an investigation into how two Americans were able to gain access to a high-security Italian prison to terrify a convicted hacker.



					www.thedailybeast.com
				




The (previous) state department actually sent people to a high-security prison in Salerno to interrogate a couple of incarcerated hackers about how they used hijacked satellites to mess up the vote counts.

Those people (in charge at the time) need to be fined/imprisoned for fraudulent us of government resources.


----------



## Thomas Veil

This is delicious.

Lin Wood Goes Off the Deep State Deep End, Accuses Trump Lawyer Sidney Powell and Stop the Steal of Grifting​


> Right-wing darling Kyle Rittenhouse, the teen acquitted of murder for killing two people at a racial justice protest, sent the QAnon world into a tailspin when he said in interviews that Lin Wood, a leading QAnon believer and Trump attorney who briefly represented Rittenhouse, was “insane” and had “taken advantage” of him.





> That prompted right-wing Trump allies — including Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, alt-right activist Jack Posobiec and former Trump White House aide Sebastian Gorka — to come out against Wood. In response, Wood has been posting through it, making wild claims without evidence. Over the past few days, he has shared increasingly outrageous claims on his Telegram and turned on pro-Trumpers who used to be his allies, including Sidney Powell, Sebastian Gorka and Michael Flynn.





> “I have texts. Some of it has to do with Sidney (Powell) wanting to bed me, and I said no. We have texts and witnesses to that, and that’s how she became a woman scorned,” Byrne said, later claiming that Powell was in love with him and sent him love letters.




Let's hope they _all_ start to turn on each other.









						Lin Wood Goes Off the Deep State Deep End, Accuses Trump Lawyer Sidney Powell and Stop the Steal of Grifting
					

“After doing the research and connecting the dots, I have reached the conclusion that the Stop the Steal organization is a Deep State organization to raise money for purposes other than to FI…




					www.rollingstone.com


----------



## Yoused

Thomas Veil said:


> Let's hope they _all_ start to turn on each other.








(with apologies to any sharks that may have been offended by this post)


----------



## Huntn

Yoused said:


> (with apologies to any sharks that may have been offended by this post)



Too much to hope for at this point at least for the near future.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Uh, wha?



> https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/2021-11-01/arizona-ag-questions-former-maricopa-county-election-offical





> The questioning of Fontes, a Democrat who oversaw mail-in balloting last year but lost his own re-election bid, suggests Brnovich is pressing ahead with his pledge to review the findings of the state Senate Republicans' partisan review of the 2020 election. That review, led and almost entirely funded by supporters of former President Donald Trump, confirmed President Joe Biden's victory in Maricopa County but spread falsehoods about alleged malfeasance.
> 
> Brnovich is seeking the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate but could be weighed down by sharp criticism from Trump, who retains considerable sway with the GOP base. Trump repeatedly attacked Brnovich earlier this year as “lackluster,” claiming the attorney general wasn't doing enough to advance the false claim that Trump's loss in Arizona was the result of fraud.
> 
> Fontes, who is running in a contested Democratic primary for secretary of state, said he spoke for about an hour Monday morning with two special agents from Brnovich's office. He said the discussion was “professional and collegial,” but he said the agents did not seem to know much about election systems.




What, they didn't find enough additional votes for Biden the last time, so they want to try AGAIN?

There'a a popular incorrect saying that goes,

"The definition of insanity is..."

Update:  A little video...


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> Uh, wha?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What, they didn't find enough additional votes for Biden the last time, so they want to try AGAIN?
> 
> There'a a popular incorrect saying that goes,
> 
> "The definition of insanity is..."



They put the “con” in conspiracy theory.

This guy’s support of another “audit” has nothing to do with vote counting. It has everything to do with virtue signaling to Trump-lovers that he “knows” Trump really won in 2020.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Well, shit's about to get REAL interesting in Georgia...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1466141426413043713/



> Stacey Abrams announces she's running for governor in Georgia
> 
> 
> Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams announced on Wednesday that she is running for governor, setting up a possible rematch with Georgia GOP Gov. Brian Kemp in what could become one of the most closely watched races in the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com




I'm expecting Kemp to introduce a bill that will measure the color of one's skin to be allowed into precincts to vote. 






Also that voting precincts in urban areas will only be open between 12:15pm & 1:00pm M - W to allow people in those areas to vote in their free time as a good will gesture.  

Don't think that legislature will not take that seriously.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1466213056330051593/


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Edd

theSeb said:


> Michigan election official who refused to certify result for Biden dies of Covid — The Independent
> 
> 
> A local elected official in Michigan who refused to certify the 2020 election result and President Joe Biden’s victory has died of Covid-19. William Hartmann sat on the board of canvassers for Wayne County, which includes heavily Democratic Detroit. Last year, he and fellow Republican member...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apple.news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a certain amount of irony in this.



Thanks man, but I was in a pretty good mood already, no need to cheer me up.


----------



## SuperMatt

The disgusting harassment that poll workers have to endure just for doing their job… thanks to @GermanSuplex for telling me about this story.









						Inside Trump’s campaign to demonize two Georgia election workers
					

Desperate to overturn his election loss, the Trump team spun a sprawling voter-fraud fiction with two rank-and-file election workers, a mother and her daughter, as the main villains.




					www.reuters.com
				




Rudy Giuliani and far-right websites like “The Gateway Pundit” the rest knowingly spread lies about these 2 women, subjecting them to constant death threats and ruining their lives.

The 2 women have just filed a defamation lawsuit against “The Gateway Pundit” and I hope they bankrupt the site with a huge payout.









						Two Georgia election workers sue far-right website over false fraud allegations
					

Two Georgia election workers targeted by former U.S. President Donald Trump in a vote-rigging conspiracy theory have sued a far-right website that trumpeted the false story, alleging it incited months of death threats and harassment against them.




					www.reuters.com
				




Some lowlights of the Trump supporters’ threats towards these two black women.



> “Those two should be strung up from the nearest lamppost and set on fire.”





> “The coon c---s should be locked up for voter fraud!!!” wrote a Parler user. “She should be shot,” said a Facebook commenter under a Dec. 7 Gateway Pundit story. “YOU SHOULD BE HUNG OR SHOT FOR YOUR CRIMES,” wrote another Facebook commenter.



But Trump and his followers aren’t racists… right?


----------



## Thomas Veil

There was no election fraud! Donald Trump finally admits it. (Sort of.)

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1467310339217924100/​


----------



## Huntn

Thomas Veil said:


> There was no election fraud! Donald Trump finally admits it. (Sort of.)
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1467310339217924100/​



I’ve always been impressed that Donald Trump can dance around playing this game of pseudo-self incrimination flashing about words like corrupt and stupid that his followers gulp down like arsenic laced Koolaid. This is what Trump Wonderland looks like and if the collective us do not regain our senses quickly well I’ll leave it to your imagination.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> There was no election fraud! Donald Trump finally admits it. (Sort of.)
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1467310339217924100/​



Curse you, double-negative! Foiled again…


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Huntn said:


> I’ve always been impressed that Donald Trump can dance around playing this game of pseudo-self incrimination flashing about words like corrupt and stupid that his followers gulp down like arsenic laced Koolaid. This is what Trump Wonderland looks like and if the collective us do not regain our senses quickly well I’ll leave it to your imagination.




People supported Trump because they were tired of lying politicians but supporting Trump is like holding an AA meeting in an abandoned fully stocked liquor store where they teach you drinking alcohol isn’t the problem. It’s which alcohol you are drinking. Try something stiffer.


----------



## Yoused

SuperMatt said:


> Curse you, double-negative! Foiled again…



Well, you know, some languages other than Англиский employ concordant-sense polarity, where multiple negatives support each other, emphasize the negative and in some languages are even requisite. Like, in that language they speak in Москва.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Truthfully, that's not untrue. 

I think.


----------



## Yoused

Another "audit" in Wisconsin









						Mike Lindell's nightmare: Conservative group finds Trump did better than expected in counties with Dominion machines
					

A conservative legal group found “no evidence of fraud” in Wisconsin during the last presidential election. But that top-line conclusion confirming the obvious wasn’t quite as striking as one that had to rock the world of MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell. The Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty...




					www.rawstory.com
				




showed that CFEFWSG did _better_ in districts using Dominion equipment. So, they need to work on their inability to doctor the data to make it say what they want it to say.


----------



## JayMysteri0

WHAT THE BLOODY F-?!!



> Kanye West publicist pressed Georgia election worker to confess to bogus fraud charges
> 
> 
> Weeks after the 2020 election, a Chicago publicist for hip-hop artist Kanye West traveled to the suburban home of Ruby Freeman, a frightened Georgia election worker who was facing death threats after being falsely accused by former President Donald Trump of manipulating votes. The publicist...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com





> ATLANTA, Dec 10 (Reuters) - Weeks after the 2020 election, a Chicago publicist for hip-hop artist Kanye West traveled to the suburban home of Ruby Freeman, a frightened Georgia election worker who was facing death threats after being falsely accused by former President Donald Trump of manipulating votes. The publicist knocked on the door and offered to help.
> 
> The visitor, Trevian Kutti, gave her name but didn’t say she worked for West, a longtime billionaire friend of Trump. She said she was sent by a “high-profile individual,” whom she didn’t identify, to give Freeman an urgent message: confess to Trump’s voter-fraud allegations, or people would come to her home in 48 hours, and she’d go to jail.
> 
> Freeman refused. This story of how an associate of a music mogul pressured a 62-year-old temporary election worker at the center of a Trump conspiracy theory is based on previously unreported police recordings and reports, legal filings, and Freeman’s first media interview since she was dragged into Trump’s attempt to reverse his election loss.
> 
> Kutti did not respond to requests for comment. Her biography for her work at the Women’s Global Initiative, a business networking group, identifies her as a member of “the Young Black Leadership Council under President Donald Trump.” It notes that in September 2018, she “was secured as publicist to Kanye West” and “now serves as West’s Director of Operations.”
> 
> When Kutti knocked on Freeman's door on Jan. 4, Freeman called 911. By then, Freeman said, she was wary of strangers.
> 
> Starting on Dec. 3, Trump and his campaign repeatedly accused Freeman and her daughter, Wandrea “Shaye” Moss, of illegally counting phony mail-in ballots after pulling them from mysterious suitcases while working on Election Day at Atlanta’s State Farm Arena. In fact, the “suitcases” were standard ballot containers, and the votes were properly counted, county and state officials quickly confirmed, refuting the fraud claims.





> By the time Kutti arrived, Freeman needed help but was cautious and wouldn’t open the door because of the threats, according to Freeman and a police report.
> 
> So Freeman asked a neighbor to come over and talk with Kutti, who was with an unidentified male. Like Freeman, Kutti and the other visitor were Black. Kutti told the neighbor that Freeman was in danger and that she’d been sent to provide assistance. Freeman said she was open to meeting them. She asked Cobb County Police to send an officer to keep watch so she could step outside, according to a recording of her 911 call.
> 
> “They’re saying that I need help,” Freeman told the dispatcher, referring to the people at her door, “that it’s just a matter of time that they are going to come out for me and my family.”
> 
> An officer arrived and spoke with Kutti, who described herself as a “crisis manager,” according to the police incident report.
> 
> Kutti repeated that Freeman “was in danger” and had “48 hours” before “unknown subjects” turned up at her home, the report said. At the officer’s suggestion, the women agreed to meet at a police station. The officer’s report did not identify the man accompanying Kutti.
> 
> 'YOU’RE A LOOSE END'
> 
> Inside the station, Kutti and Freeman met in a corner, according to footage from a body camera worn by an officer present at the meeting. Reuters obtained the video through a public-records request.





> “I cannot say what specifically will take place,” Kutti is heard telling Freeman in the recording. “I just know that it will disrupt your freedom," she said, "and the freedom of one or more of your family members.”
> 
> “You are a loose end for a party that needs to tidy up,” Kutti continued. She added that “federal people” were involved, without offering specifics.
> 
> According to Freeman, Kutti told her that she was going to put a man named “Harrison Ford” on speakerphone. (Freeman said the man on the phone wasn’t the actor by the same name.) Kutti said the man had “authoritative powers to get you protection,” the bodycam footage shows.
> 
> At that point, Kutti can be heard asking the officer to give them privacy. The body camera did not capture a clear recording of the conversation that followed after the officer moved away from the two women.
> 
> Kutti and the man on the speakerphone, over the next hour, tried to get Freeman to implicate herself in committing voter fraud on Election Day. Kutti offered legal assistance in exchange, Freeman said.
> 
> “If you don't tell everything,” Freeman recalled Kutti saying, “you're going to jail.”


----------



## Thomas Veil

JayMysteri0 said:


> WHAT THE BLOODY F-?!!




Well said. This has gotten beyond crazy!


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> WHAT THE BLOODY F-?!!



Wow… I figured the story would be dead by now. Does Kanye read this forum?


----------



## GermanSuplex

I can’t believe people aren’t concerned a sitting U.S. President tried to steal the election. Those who believe him are less worse than those who know it but don’t care.

It’s just all so obvious, it’s not really a big secret. And he’ll get away with all of it, and probably try again. Then what? Do all these Trump supporters think it will be a Utopia?


----------



## Renzatic

GermanSuplex said:


> Do all these Trump supporters think it will be a Utopia?




If we go by the history of previous totalitarian regimes, they'll end up becoming the first victims of the new order.


----------



## Scepticalscribe

And then, there is that Powerpoint presentation.  

Good grief.


----------



## SuperMatt

I’ve got a question:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1470046813478703106/

If Trump really DID win in 2020 (according to many right-wingers, he did), then isn’t it unconstitutional for him to run again in 2024?


----------



## Yoused

Renzatic said:


> If we go by the history of previous totalitarian regimes, they'll end up becoming the first victims of the new order.



Well, I was reading about _Uranverein_, the 3rd Reich's nuclear program, and was initially confused by the fact that one of its lead scientists was Abraham Esau.


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> If Trump really DID win in 2020 (according to many right-wingers, he did), then isn’t it unconstitutional for him to run again in 2024?



They don’t believe in the Constitution.


----------



## SuperMatt

Alli said:


> They don’t believe in the Constitution.



Remember the “good ol’ days” when they used to brag about having a copy in their pocket, or start the new Congress with the reading of it? They’ve given up on even that pretense now.


----------



## Yoused

Alli said:


> They don’t believe in the Constitution.



What good, upstanding America-Hating-FuckStick does?


----------



## MEJHarrison

Alli said:


> They don’t believe in the Constitution.




I think they believe in it.  They just believe in the Cliff Notes version that's been handed down via word-of-mouth. "You have the freedom say what you want; You have the freedom to have as many guns as you like; and some other stuff".


----------



## Hrafn

MEJHarrison said:


> I think they believe in it.  They just believe in the Cliff Notes version that's been handed down via word-of-mouth. "You have the freedom say what you want; You have the freedom to have as many guns as you like; and some other stuff".



Sounds like their understanding of the Bible.


----------



## MEJHarrison

Hrafn said:


> Sounds like their understanding of the Bible.




It sure does, doesn't it?

I left out "You have the freedom to practice any version of Christianity".  That's another important part of their constitution.


----------



## Hrafn

MEJHarrison said:


> It sure does, doesn't it?
> 
> I left out "You have the freedom to practice any version of Christianity".  That's another important part of their constitution.



Yeah, but no.  They'll still go ballistic over Southern baptist vs Protestant vs Catholic vs whateverflavoryouwant...


----------



## Yoused

3 residents of The Villages arrested for casting multiple votes in 2020 election
					

Three residents of The Villages have recently been arrested as part of an ongoing investigation into voter fraud, court records show.




					www.clickorlando.com
				




Republicans, of course (though one of them switch to no-party-affiliation shortly before being arrested).


----------



## Thomas Veil

*This? Again???*

Trump loyalists are knocking on voters' doors in the latest quest to find fraud in the 2020 election









						Trump loyalists are knocking on voters' doors in the latest quest to find fraud in the 2020 election | CNN Politics
					

These so-called "citizen canvasses" are the latest twist in the effort by Trump's supporters to advance claims -- pushed by the former President himself -- that he lost the 2020 election through voter fraud. The door-to-door activity has raised alarms for some state and local election...




					www.cnn.com
				






> These so-called "citizen canvasses" are the latest twist in the effort by Trump's supporters to advance claims -- pushed by the former President himself -- that he lost the 2020 election through voter fraud….





> The door-to-door activity has raised alarms for some state and local election supervisors and for voting rights advocates who fear it could confuse voters, or even worse, veer into voter intimidation….





> The canvassing approach, he said, "moves the harassment to the streets of neighborhoods."




I thought this nonsense had stopped, but these crazy people just keep changing their tactics, or revisiting the same ones. 

I hope people will slam the door in their faces.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> *This? Again???*
> 
> Trump loyalists are knocking on voters' doors in the latest quest to find fraud in the 2020 election
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump loyalists are knocking on voters' doors in the latest quest to find fraud in the 2020 election | CNN Politics
> 
> 
> These so-called "citizen canvasses" are the latest twist in the effort by Trump's supporters to advance claims -- pushed by the former President himself -- that he lost the 2020 election through voter fraud. The door-to-door activity has raised alarms for some state and local election...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought this nonsense had stopped, but these crazy people just keep changing their tactics, or revisiting the same ones.
> 
> I hope people will slam the door in their faces.



It was hard to come up with somebody you’d like to see at your door *less than* Jehovah’s witnesses… but we’ve done it, America! We are great again!


----------



## Yoused

Thomas Veil said:


> I hope people will slam the door in their faces.



I have a better idea: cough on them.


----------



## Thomas Veil

People who know me know that I am not one to just go off on people (although it _has_ been done), but if these jokers showed up at my doorstep, not only wouldn’t I give them any information, but I’d give them a very strong piece of my mind—probably loud enough for the neighbors to hear. 

Before slamming the door in their faces, as previously stated. 

I think many of us are beyond having any patience with this stupidity.


----------



## Huntn

MEJHarrison said:


> It sure does, doesn't it?
> 
> I left out "You have the freedom to practice any version of Christianity".  That's another important part of their constitution.



Their version of the Constitution:

My freedom to walk on you but not vice a versa, even if you are not walking on me, just if it’s anything I disagree with,
Live and let live, ha-ha, I live, you submit to my agenda.
Pay no attention to the Christian theocracy we are creating while saying we believe in the tenant of separation of church and state, we don’t.
My freedom to put my religious beliefs on you, but if not my version of corrupt Christianity I don’t have to entertain you, your beliefs or feelings.
Democracy is overrated, I don’t support any notion of democracy where I don’t get my way, and will do everything in my power to nullify true democracy replaced by a sham that supports my agenda,
We pretend to follow the law as far as liars and cheats can,  as we corrupt the law, turning into a self serving mechanism, supported by false arguments and outright lies, while  spouting our patriotism and  faith in the Constitution as we undermine it to serve our goals, to get our way, not yours.
And most importantly the end justifies the means, any means that  includes lying, cheating,  corruption, and fooling the dummies, as we praise the lord and have an abundance of thoughts and prayers as long as we get our way.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Remember when emptyG was losing her shit over the phone companies giving up her records to a lawful subpoena?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1472919335664500739/

Perhaps we have an idea of what maybe dropping in an upcoming week?


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

JayMysteri0 said:


> Remember when emptyG was losing her shit over the phone companies giving up her records to a lawful subpoena?
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1472919335664500739/
> 
> Perhaps we have an idea of what maybe dropping in an upcoming week?




Trump supporters don't give a shit about "damning evidence" and they probably support most of it.  If there are no consequences it's pretty much a green light to continue and step up their actions and efforts and it creates a precedent that they can get away with it.  Also successful prosecution of low-level soldiers is pretty much useless in the bigger picture.  They are all just martyrs for the cause.


----------



## JayMysteri0

A good point to ponder

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1473672607492935687/

As you read this



> Michael Flynn loses his legal challenge to the House January 6 probe, one day after filing it
> 
> 
> Michael Flynn has swiftly lost his bid in court to block a possible House select committee subpoena for his phone records and to hold off demands he speak to the panel investigating January 6.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com





> (CNN)Michael Flynn has swiftly lost his bid in court to block a possible House select committee subpoena for his phone records and to hold off demands he speak to the panel investigating January 6.
> 
> The ruling comes one day after he asked a federal judge in Florida for a temporary restraining order, and it's the first quick response to a lawsuit from a House witness, after several went to court to try to invalidate the committee and block the House from pursuing their phone records.
> 
> So far, 11 others for whom the committee subpoenaed phone records have sued.
> 
> Overall, the House has already spoken to dozens of witnesses and requested more than 100 people's phone records.




Here's an idea on how to avoid catching a subpoena... don't participate in a coup.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> A good point to ponder
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1473672607492935687/
> 
> As you read this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an idea on how to avoid catching a subpoena... don't participate in a coup.



Flynn must think his pardon is a lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card.


----------



## JayMysteri0

I am torn between asking, "better late than NEVER" or "has he told anyone that still believes the 'big lie' he's been peddling"?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1473836689072308225/


----------



## rdrr

Ok why am I starting to think there is something behind this.  Trump recently admits to getting the booster, Biden gives praise to Trumps administration for the vaccine development, and now this slightest of admission that he lost???   Is this a some sort of negotiation on dropping an investigations into a criminal probe?  Did we have something, but thought it was better to not go down the Civil War path, because I am convinced that is where it would go.   Just makes you wonder, why the change of heart?

Am I becoming a conspiracy nut job?


----------



## JayMysteri0

rdrr said:


> Ok why am I starting to think there is something behind this.  Trump recently admits to taking the booster, Biden gives praise to Trumps administration for the vaccine development, and now this slightest of admission that he lost???   Is this a some sort of negotiation on dropping an investigations into a criminal probe?  Did we have something, but thought it was better to not go down the Civil War path, because I am convinced that is where it would go.   Just makes you wonder, why the change of heart?
> 
> Am I becoming a conspiracy nut job?



I think you're reading a bit much.  If there is any reach I could see there is that 45 knows his base has swirled so far down that orange colored rabbit hole, it doesn't matter if he acknowledges the truth now.  Some will see a secret code sent ONLY to them, that says he's lulling the libs into some kind of 5D chess trap.  If anything it will appeal to all those supposed "independents" who will fool themselves into thinking somehow the head grifter in charge is supposedly rational all of a sudden.  In the land of the grift, it's often once a sucker, always a sucker.  Thus justifying them voting for 45 again should he run again.

If I may try my own speculation though.  I do think what you are seeing with the Jan 6th committee now passing out subpoenas to bigger fish, is that they did hear all of us criticizing that they were going too slow.  That their lack of urgency would mean it's very likely that 'r's will take over the house and the 'r's will try to Critical Republican Theory Jan 6th out of existence.  By making the cases for a seemingly reluctant Merrick Garland & his DoJ, the committee is setting up investigations for a DoJ independent of the 'r's to go after all these people once the committee is disappeared.

That's my bit of hopeful "conspiracy" thinking.


----------



## SuperMatt

The women who were falsely accused by Giuliani and others are now fighting back.

https://wapo.st/3Fmi7st (paywall removed)



> Two election workers who counted votes for the 2020 presidential election filed a defamation lawsuit Thursday against the parent company of One America News, senior staff at the far-right TV network and Rudolph W. Giuliani, who served as a personal lawyer to former president Donald Trump.
> 
> Ruby Freeman and her daughter Wandrea “Shaye” Moss, who worked in Fulton County, Ga., allege that One America News and Giuliani, who frequently appears on the network, knowingly spread misinformation about them, including falsehoods that they logged illegal ballots for Joe Biden in the election.






> In the latest lawsuit, the lawyers said that Freeman received at least 420 emails and 75 text messages after the false accusations of electoral fraud. “We know where you live, we coming to get you,” one of those messages read, according to the lawsuit.
> She also received Christmas cards with messages like: “Ruby please report to the FBI and tell them you committed voter fraud. If not you will be sorry.”




They should sue Kanye next. Make all these disgusting Trump-ers pay through the nose. These women are lucky to be alive; any one of the crazy nut jobs riled up by OANN, Giuliani, et al could have killed them.


----------



## Yoused

SuperMatt said:


> … any one of the crazy nut jobs riled up by OANN, Giuliani, et al could have killed them.



The term for this is "stochastic terrorism", wherein a prominent or vocal person suggests that a certain target is appropriate for violent action but claims innocence when somebody actually does it. This needs to be codified into law.


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> The term for this is "stochastic terrorism", wherein a prominent or vocal person suggests that a certain target is appropriate for violent action but claims innocence when somebody actually does it. This needs to be codified into law.



Like the Fox News guy telling people to assassinate Fauci, then saying “well I was being metaphorical!”


----------



## GermanSuplex

Glad to see the lunatic Trump boot-lickers face consequences for their lies.

I’m tired of them making up controversy, and then saying nobody should take them seriously, they didn’t really mean it, etc.

They’re stoking doubt and violence. What do you think will happen when you tell millions of angry white voters the left is stealing the election from them and then hint at violence?

We’re seeing a breakdown of norms. We don’t have laws for everything, and these white collar criminals are using falsehoods and disinformation to drum up funding. They’re making a ton of money off of stupidity.


----------



## Yoused

GermanSuplex said:


> They’re making a ton of money off of stupidity.



To be fair, stupidity is a vital capital resource. Without an abundance of this resource, our economic system would all but collapse, and for that reason, lies and deceit are a heavily protected part of speech. I mean, how could you make an honest mint without being able to wantonly bullshit your prospective customers? Which is to say, these people are making big money in the traditional and accepted way.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1474400159865913345/


----------



## Yoused

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1475542595673763848/

Umm, what? You steal an election by getting people to legally vote for you? Now the meaning of "steal" has changed?


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1475542595673763848/
> 
> Umm, what? You steal an election by getting people to legally vote for you? Now the meaning of "steal" has changed?



Wisconsin had one big election in 2010 that went very well for Republicans. The state has voted mostly Democratic for a long time. But in 2010, the Republicans gerrymandered the system so that winning 45% of the voters gives them over 60% of the legislature.

So no, Mark Zuckerberg didn’t turn Wisconsin blue… The only Republicans they’ve voted in as president since 1976 were Reagan and Trump.

Facts are always screwing up the conservative narratives.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Yup.  With Rand's logic, he's making the case for gerrymandering or rigging the game, as the only "fair" way to win.   So of course it's okay to cheat, winning is the ONLY point, NOT the process or contest.  After all, if doing things fairly doesn't work for you...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1475678962747682816/


----------



## JayMysteri0

This is a remarkable bit of effort on the part of 'r's








> The Jan. 6 puzzle piece that's going largely ignored
> 
> 
> Rep. Louie Gohmert  sued then-Vice President Mike Pence on Dec. 27. Donald Trump’s involvement in the case remains unclear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.com





> As Donald Trump and his allies squeezed then-Vice President Mike Pence to single-handedly stop Joe Biden’s presidency in the weeks ahead of Jan. 6, they used one particular tool that’s been largely ignored ever since.
> 
> Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) sued Pence on Dec. 27, just as Trump was ratcheting up his pressure campaign against his vice president. Backed by a squad of lawyers associated with Trump ally and conspiracy theorist Sidney Powell, Gohmert argued Pence should assert unilateral control over certification, governed only by the vague wording of the Twelfth Amendment.
> 
> Gohmert’s move forced Pence to publicly resist Trump’s subversion of the election, only a week before the fateful Jan. 6 joint session of Congress. When the Justice Department stepped in to defend Pence from the lawsuit on Dec. 29, it marked the first time Pence signaled he wouldn’t fold to Trump’s demands.




Then there is the confessions


> Trump Adviser Peter Navarro Lays Out How He and Bannon Planned to Overturn Biden’s Electoral Win
> 
> 
> Photo Illustration by The Daily Beast/GettyA former Trump White House official says he and right-wing provocateur Steve Bannon were actually behind the last-ditch coordinated effort by rogue Republicans in Congress to halt certification of the 2020 election results and keep President Donald...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.yahoo.com





> A former Trump White House official says he and right-wing provocateur Steve Bannon were actually behind the last-ditch coordinated effort by rogue Republicans in Congress to halt certification of the 2020 election results and keep President Donald Trump in power earlier this year, in a plan dubbed the “Green Bay Sweep.”
> 
> In his recently published memoir, Peter Navarro, then-President Donald Trump’s trade adviser, details how he stayed in close contact with Bannon as they put the Green Bay Sweep in motion with help from members of Congress loyal to the cause.
> 
> But in an interview last week with The Daily Beast, Navarro shed additional light on his role in the operation and their coordination with politicians like Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ) and Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX).
> 
> “We spent a lot of time lining up over 100 congressmen, including some senators. It started out perfectly. At 1 p.m., Gosar and Cruz did exactly what was expected of them,” Navarro told The Daily Beast. “It was a perfect plan. And it all predicated on peace and calm on Capitol Hill. We didn’t even need any protestors, because we had over 100 congressmen committed to it.”
> 
> That commitment appeared as Congress was certifying the 2020 Electoral College votes reflecting that Joe Biden beat Trump. Sen. Cruz signed off on Gosar’s official objection to counting Arizona’s electoral ballots, an effort that was supported by dozens of other Trump loyalists.





> This last-minute maneuvering never had any chance of actually decertifying the election results on its own, a point that Navarro quickly acknowledges. But their hope was to run the clock as long as possible to increase public pressure on then-Vice President Mike Pence to send the electoral votes back to six contested states, where Republican-led legislatures could try to overturn the results. And in their mind, ramping up pressure on Pence would require media coverage. While most respected news organizations refused to regurgitate unproven conspiracy theories about widespread election fraud, this plan hoped to force journalists to cover the allegations by creating a historic delay to the certification process.
> 
> “The Green Bay Sweep was very well thought out. It was designed to get us 24 hours of televised hearings,” he said. “But we thought that we could bypass the corporate media by getting this stuff televised.”
> 
> Navarro’s part in this ploy was to provide the raw materials, he said in an interview on Thursday. That came in the form of a three-part White House report he put together during his final weeks in the Trump administration with volume titles like, “The Immaculate Deception” and “The Art of the Steal.”




Yet we keep hearing from 'r's there was nothing going on on the steps on 1/6 or inside the capital itself.

Seems like a great bit of effort was put into nothing, fully conscious it was based on bullshit.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> This is a remarkable bit of effort on the part of 'r's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is the confessions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet we keep hearing from 'r's there was nothing going on on the steps on 1/6 or inside the capital itself.
> 
> Seems like a great bit of effort was put into nothing, fully conscious it was based on bullshit.



Navarro is openly talking about his coup d’état plans... with no apparent fear of consequences? Wow.

I thought Republican voters would be appalled by this, but it doesn’t seem to be the case. They have forgotten all about the insurrection and attempted coup and blithely jumped onto the “Let’s Go Brandon” train. Maybe I’m wrong and the 2022 primaries will see Trump-loving Republicans get “primaried out.”


----------



## Thomas Veil

Yoused said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1475542595673763848/
> 
> Umm, what? You steal an election by getting people to legally vote for you?



That is what I thought when I read it.

Someone explain to me again how Rand Paul is supposed to be this brilliant force in the Republican Party? He's only slightly brighter than the Karen twins, Lauren Boebert and MTG.


----------



## Yoused

This sounds kind of odd.




In her little spiel, from the two minute mark, there is a part where the captions say "should", but it sounds not quite like that.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

I think it's pretty hilarious that Trump said Texas, where he won, should do an audit and they are actually doing it.  What a great way to spend donation money, but I'm sure the Trumpers will somehow get a jolt of righteousness when they receive the affirmation.  Maybe they should do an audit of the Trump winning states annually like it's a Civil War reenactment.


----------



## JayMysteri0

What's the name of this thread again?  "Stealing the election". Perhaps it could also be "grifting from the election".



> The Cyber Ninjas Are Now the Cyber Ronin (Because They've All Been Fired)
> 
> 
> Rather than pay $50,000 daily fines, the firm behind the hoax Arizona audit claims it has totally disbanded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gizmodo.com





> The self-proclaimed Cyber Ninjas behind the hoax “audit” of the 2020 election results in Arizona’s Maricopa County are scattering to the winds following a string of humiliating defeats. In what looks very much like a desperate gambit to evade $50,000 daily penalties for disobeying a court order, the firm now claims it has disbanded and all staff have been fired.
> 
> “Cyber Ninjas is shutting down. All employees have been let go,” a representative for the political firm, Rod Thomson, told NBC News via text message on Thursday. In a subsequent statement to CNN, Thomson blamed “$2 million debt from the Arizona audit and endless legal and character attacks on the company by those who opposed the audit.”





> But Cyber Ninjas, run by a QAnon and “Stop the Steal” aficionado named Doug Logan, bravely moved forward regardless, pursuing any leads, no matter how ludicrous. They and an army of partisan, untrained volunteers scanned ballots for nonexistent UV watermarks signifying fraud, looked at them under microscopes searching for nefarious Chinese bamboo, and searched for “kinematic markers” proving... something. In the process, they reportedly wasted over $9 million, including state funds and a reported $5.7 million from donors. The company’s final report ultimately re-affirmed Joe Biden won Maricopa County but listed 77 issues it insisted remain suspicious
> 
> Local election officials released a report this week finding that 76 of those allegations were mistakes or misunderstandings resulting from Cyber Ninja’s incompetence and failure to understand Arizona election law, or otherwise appeared to be completely fabricated. That rebuttal was released as Cyber Ninjas faced the promise of $50,000 daily fines in a lawsuit brought by the Arizona Republic newspaper, which is trying to force the company to release internal text messages, emails, and other records about the audit. Cyber Ninjas has continued to insist that as a private company it is not subject to public records law and does not need to need to release anything, even though the court has already handed down an order demanding they do so.
> 
> 
> On Thursday, the Washington Post reported, a very fed-up Maricopa Superior Court Judge John Hannah ordered Cyber Ninjas to immediately release the records or pay $50,000 in fines daily, saying: “It is lucidly clear on this record that Cyber Ninjas has disregarded that order.”
> 
> Cyber Ninjas was apparently under the impression that dissolving itself is a clever trick that will allow it to continue to evade the records requests. A lawyer for the company, Jack Wilenchik, told the Post that since no staff are left, it can no longer search those records. According to the Associated Press, Hannah said that argument won’t work, as he has seen no evidence Cyber Ninjas is actually out of money and the company could simply forward the records for Senate legislative lawyers to sort through.


----------



## Renzatic

Just another martyr for a cause already littered with them.


----------



## Yoused

Renzatic said:


> Just another martyr for a cause already littered with them.



You would think if there were enough martyrs, their cause would eventually die out with them.


----------



## Renzatic

Yoused said:


> You would think if there were enough martyrs, their cause would eventually die out with them.




Yeah, you'd think. But...


----------



## MEJHarrison

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I think it's pretty hilarious that Trump said Texas, where he won, should do an audit and they are actually doing it.  What a great way to spend donation money...




It is dumb.  On the other hand, if Republicans want to waste money recounting ballots, then that leaves them less money for the election.  And the ludicrous places they're doing re-counts are the places where people need to hear that nothing unusual happened.  And they probably need to keep hearing it till they have enough sense to stop donating money to the cause.  In the end, I don't care if they spend a billion and do 200 re-counts.  That's less money in the Republican coffers and more affirmation that they've been fed a bunch of lies.

I honestly don't understand the Republican point of view.  They're shooting themselves in one foot supporting this nonsense.  Meanwhile they're shooting themselves in the other foot with Covid and vaccines.  Those who are still alive for the next election aren't going to have any money to donate to the party.  I'm not sure I see the logic in their plans.


----------



## JayMysteri0

So I'm confused, the 'r's are desperately looking for all this voter fraud that stole the election but can't prove.

Yet, people getting charged for voter fraud.

Why don't the 'r's present that their evidence of someone cheating in elections?



> Florida Retirement Community Sees 4th Resident Charged With Voter Fraud
> 
> 
> Law enforcement officials said Charles Barnes, 64, was not only registered to vote in Florida but in Connecticut as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com





> A fourth resident of a retirement community in The Villages, Florida was recently charged with voter fraud.
> 
> On Tuesday, Charles Barnes, 64, was arrested and charged with voter fraud for allegedly casting more than one ballot, an arrest affidavit filed in court showed.
> 
> There is no basis for the charge detailed in the arrest affidavit. On Thursday, Barnes entered a not guilty plea.
> 
> He first registered to vote in 2019 in Sumter County. Barnes was not affiliated with any political party when he voted in 2020, according to online voting records, WKMG-TV reported.
> 
> However, in 2020, records showed that Barnes was not only registered to vote in Florida, but also in Connecticut, according to WKMG-TV.
> 
> Barnes has been released from jail after paying a $2,000 bond, the _Orlando Sentinel_ reported. He could be sentenced to up to five years in prison if convicted of the third-degree felony, according to The Independent.


----------



## JayMysteri0

MEJHarrison said:


> It is dumb.  On the other hand, if Republicans want to waste money recounting ballots, then that leaves them less money for the election.  And the ludicrous places they're doing re-counts are the places where people need to hear that nothing unusual happened.  And they probably need to keep hearing it till they have enough sense to stop donating money to the cause.  In the end, I don't care if they spend a billion and do 200 re-counts.  That's less money in the Republican coffers and more affirmation that they've been fed a bunch of lies.



I don't think you understand republicans.

Republicans hate "big gov't" & wasteful gov't spending, UNLESS...



> Texas taxpayers likely face a steep bill for 'election audit' Trump ordered from Gov. Greg Abbott
> 
> 
> While Texas officials have yet to explain how they'll pay for their probe into 2020 election results in four of the state's most-populous counties, evidence...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sacurrent.com






> According to the same report, a statewide probe ordered up by Republican lawmakers in Wisconsin is estimated to run more than $63,000 and could expand statewide.
> 
> That Wisconsin price tag appears poised to go up further, according to news reports. Late last month, Republicans who control the Wisconsin Legislature began seeking approval to spend up to $680,000 in taxpayer money to bankroll the investigation.
> 
> Meanwhile, the report estimated the cost of Pennsylvania's ongoing Republican-ordered election investigation at $25,000. However, Philadelphia officials have warned that the city could be forced to replace $40 million in voting machines compromised during the process.
> 
> Michigan's GOP-backed probe has so far generated an estimated price tag of $5,000, the report states. However, Republican lawmakers in that state's legislature are also pushing for legislation that would appropriate $2.5 million in funding for the project.
> 
> The cost of Georgia's review was unclear at the time data was compiled, according to the report.
> 
> Just as alarming as the expense of the audits are what Republican officials are getting for their money, the report warns. The partisan reviews examined by the study failed basic standards of objectivity, transparency and competence, according to the authors.
> 
> "[T]he procedures proposed for these reviews are not designed to obtain secure and accurate results and are radically different from proven election integrity procedures, such as post-election tabulation audits, routinely conducted by election officials across the country," the report notes. "That these efforts are gaining traction more than six months after certification of the election is a blinking red warning light."


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> So I'm confused, the 'r's are desperately looking for all this voter fraud that stole the election but can't prove.
> 
> Yet, people getting charged for voter fraud.
> 
> Why don't the 'r's present that their evidence of someone cheating in elections?



The Governor’s press Secretary was defending this person? I guess they’re only against voter fraud if the vote was for the wrong person. What a joke…



> "Multiple voting is unlawful," Christina Pushaw, press secretary for Governor Ron DeSantis, said, according to WKMG-TV. "It isn't a crime to be registered to vote in more than one state, as long as you only vote in one."


----------



## SuperMatt

Maybe we should start a separate voting rights thread? Until then, I will post this here.

A right-wing commentator went on Meet the Press today and claimed that it’s super easy to vote, especially in the south. She added that the Democrats are the ones politicizing the voting law changes to drive turnout. That’s plainly false, and Cornell Belcher was there to shut it down.



			https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/01/09/cornell_belcher_it_is_not_easy_to_vote_in_america_if_you_happen_to_look_like_me_and_thats_intentional.html
		




> SARA FAGEN: Well, look, I think, first of all, overwhelmingly, you know, it's easier to vote in the United States than it ever has been. And so much of the rhetoric around voting rights is really about animating the Democratic base. Americans overwhelmingly support voter IDs. Getting an ID is easy in the United States. And it's also free if you can't afford it. And so, you know, so much of this is about mobilizing the base. And I think for most Americans, particularly independent Americans, they recognize that. So this is an issue that's not going to pass. And I think that this is just about the base.
> 
> CORNELL BELCHER: I've got to get in here, Chuck. No.
> 
> CHUCK TODD: Go ahead.
> 
> CORNELL BELCHER: I've got to push back on my friend, Sara, about how easy it is to vote in America. It is not that easy to vote in America. If you happen to look like me and you're in Georgia, you're standing in line for six or seven hours to vote. It's not easy to vote in America if you happen to look like me. Right? And that's been done intentionally. Republicans have intentionally shut down voting polls for places that cater to minorities and people who actually vote Democratic. You've seen over 200 laws pass over this last year since the power of young people and Black voters turned and flipped states, and Hispanic votes flipped states. That's not by accident, Sara. It is harder to vote in America today than it was.




After being hit for a loss by Belcher, she tried a comeback, but was promptly sacked for a safety:



> SARA FAGEN: The facts are, though, that it is more open in the south than it is even in the northeast, Cornell. And the reality is, early vote, absentee vote, these have been growing for the last decade. Every year, more and more people vote by these means. And so I just don't think that's accurate.
> 
> CORNELL BELCHER: It's been growing every decade. It's been growing. But have you seen what the state legislative bodies have been doing? You're right, it has been growing. It has been growing and more Americans have been voting. And now they're pulling those things back.




She is clearly used to addressing the faithful in the Fox echo chamber. She got a dose of reality for a change.

PS - Didn’t realize “real clear politics” - which I thought was a resource for polling data usually, is very popular with far-right readers. The comments on the story are pretty toxic.


----------



## User.45

SuperMatt said:


> PS - Didn’t realize “real clear politics” - which I thought was a resource for polling data usually, is very popular with far-right readers. The comments on the story are pretty toxic.



It hit me with a @StandWithRand video and I just couldn't take it.


----------



## JayMysteri0

THIS is what's so bizarro about republicans & 'r' states claim about issues with the 2020 election.  Repeatedly it's 'r's who keep getting caught in issues involving the election, yet EVERYONE else has to be investigated & legislated over irregularities others supposedly did that they can't explain.






If you don't follow the Maddow show, here's the background on the story they've been covering since Wisconsin's "shenanigans" were discovered.



> The voter fraud you didn’t hear about: Wisconsin’s Electoral College imposters - Wisconsin Examiner
> 
> 
> Law Forward calls for an investigation into the 10 people who met and certified the Wisconsin 2020 election for defeated Donald Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wisconsinexaminer.com





> This year, Presidents’ Day feels weightier than usual. We weathered a long presidential campaign, and then an unprecedented post-election crusade by the losing candidate to overturn the will of the people. All of this culminated in a domestic terror attack on the U.S. Capitol at the instigation of a sitting president.
> 
> No one is above the law. That’s why on this Presidents’ Day, Law Forward is requesting an investigation of ten individuals — fraudulent presidential electors — who attempted to hijack the results of our state’s November election. On behalf of the Service Employees International Union’s (SEIU’s) Wisconsin State Council and several individual voters, we ask for accountability, for enforcement of existing law, and for action that will protect future election results.
> 
> The peaceful transition of power is a non-partisan value. And while the former president may have escaped Senate conviction, there is still opportunity for accountability here in Wisconsin for others who have endangered our democracy. We must be committed to consequences for those who subvert our election results, no matter their political party.
> 
> Wisconsin has seen its fair share of attempts to disenfranchise voters. Draconian voter ID laws, cutbacks in early voting hours and purges of the voter rolls have all made voting less accessible over the last decade.
> 
> But this year, 10 individuals took matters into their own hands, attempting to sway the outcome of the presidential election, notwithstanding the will of the voters and the uniform rejection of challenges to Wisconsin’s results.
> 
> These 10 individuals took it upon themselves — without any legal authority — to convene as if they had been chosen the official Wisconsin representatives to the Electoral College. Acting as if they were Wisconsin’s duly chosen electors, they purported to cast Wisconsin’s ten electoral votes, and they prepared, signed and sent official-looking certificates to Congress and other state and federal officials, declaring candidates who lost Wisconsin’s votes to be the winners.
> 
> These 10 individuals knew that they were not Wisconsin’s electors. Before the election, the Republican Party of Wisconsin had named who would serve as its presidential electors, in the event Trump won the vote in Wisconsin. But Biden won Wisconsin, which under federal and state law meant that the electors designated by the Democratic Party of Wisconsin were the ones authorized to cast Wisconsin’s ten electoral votes.






> Pro-Trump Groups Forged Election Documents Saying He Won Arizona, Michigan
> 
> 
> A document created by one pro-Trump group in Arizona declaring Trump the winner carried the state seal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com





> Groups supporting former President Donald Trump in Arizona and Michigan sent fake documents to the National Archives falsely showing that he had won those states' Electoral College votes.
> 
> Forged certificates of ascertainment were sent to the National Archives by pro-Trump groups in each state in December 2020. The document from Arizona bore the state seal and legal action was taken against those responsible.
> 
> Certificates of ascertainment identify how a state's electors have cast their votes in the presidential election and the faked documents show Trump and then Vice President Mike Pence winning the slates of electors in both states.
> 
> The secretaries of state of Michigan and Arizona sent those fake certificates to the House of Representatives' Select Committee investigating the events of January 6, 2021, according to public records obtained by Politico_._
> 
> Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson and Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs also shared correspondence with the committee they had with the National Archives relating to the forged certificates.
> 
> Benson and Hobbs, who are Democrats, met with the committee in November 2021, along with their staff.
> 
> The National Archives informed Hobbs' office on December 11, 2020 about the forged certificate, sending it to state officials "for your awareness." The Archives had rejected the fake documents.




Why other news media have joined the story after the Maddow show started with it in Wisconsin, is because other reporters discovered it wasn't just Wisconsin.  On top of that it's been discovered that the 5 states seemed to use a template for their fake electors, hinting at some degree of organization.  Since then the Maddow show has been speculating that perhaps Mark Meadows, based on his emails given to the 1/6 committee & how the committee  phrased their request to him, that perhaps he was the one who might have had a hand with the template.  Meaning there was far more to the WH efforts to steal the election than previously known.

Yet it's everyone else 'r's want to accuse of election issues.


----------



## Thomas Veil

Yeah, tell me about how the GQP is the party of law and order. 

Throw their asses in jail as an example to others. 

And this here kind of story is why we’re going to miss Maddow when she’s gone from her regular show.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

JayMysteri0 said:


> THIS is what's so bizarro about republicans & 'r' states claim about issues with the 2020 election.  Repeatedly it's 'r's who keep getting caught in issues involving the election, yet EVERYONE else has to be investigated & legislated over irregularities others supposedly did that they can't explain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't follow the Maddow show, here's the background on the story they've been covering since Wisconsin's "shenanigans" were discovered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why other news media have joined the story after the Maddow show started with it in Wisconsin, is because other reporters discovered it wasn't just Wisconsin.  On top of that it's been discovered that the 5 states seemed to use a template for their fake electors, hinting at some degree of organization.  Since then the Maddow show has been speculating that perhaps Mark Meadows, based on his emails given to the 1/6 committee & how the committee  phrased their request to him, that perhaps he was the one who might have had a hand with the template.  Meaning there was far more to the WH efforts to steal the election than previously known.
> 
> Yet it's everyone else 'r's want to accuse of election issues.




Republicans on voting integrity and fairness are like closeted gays who are the most vocal homophobes…who coincidently are most likely Republican…and Christian.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> THIS is what's so bizarro about republicans & 'r' states claim about issues with the 2020 election.  Repeatedly it's 'r's who keep getting caught in issues involving the election, yet EVERYONE else has to be investigated & legislated over irregularities others supposedly did that they can't explain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't follow the Maddow show, here's the background on the story they've been covering since Wisconsin's "shenanigans" were discovered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why other news media have joined the story after the Maddow show started with it in Wisconsin, is because other reporters discovered it wasn't just Wisconsin.  On top of that it's been discovered that the 5 states seemed to use a template for their fake electors, hinting at some degree of organization.  Since then the Maddow show has been speculating that perhaps Mark Meadows, based on his emails given to the 1/6 committee & how the committee  phrased their request to him, that perhaps he was the one who might have had a hand with the template.  Meaning there was far more to the WH efforts to steal the election than previously known.
> 
> Yet it's everyone else 'r's want to accuse of election issues.



The electoral college is utter nonsense created by a combination of elitists that didn’t think “the masses” could be trusted to pick a president, paired with wealthy southern enslavers who didn’t want to get out-voted by the northern states which had larger (white) populations. It needs to be purged from our constitution if we’re ever going to be a true democracy. Plus, it’s ripe for exploitation, as 2020 made abundantly clear, and 2024 will make DANGEROUSLY clear if it works out the way the GOP is trying to rig it.


----------



## SuperMatt

One county in Georgia has already moved to phase two of preventing people from voting. After the state legislature disbanded the county elections board, they installed GOP loyalists. Their first act: *They are closing 6 of the county’s 7 polling locations.*









						Lincoln County looks to eliminate all polling places but one
					

Lincoln County is trying to close all but one polling place for next year’s elections, in a move opposed by voting and civil rights groups.



					www.augustachronicle.com
				






> Lincoln County is trying to close all but one polling place for next year’s elections, a move opposed by voting and civil rights groups.
> 
> Relocating voters from the county’s seven precincts to a single location will make voting “easier and more accessible” and eliminate the need to transport voting equipment and staff the remaining sites, according to a news release. Community members disagreed.
> 
> “Lincoln County is a very rural county. Some people live as far as 23 miles from the city of Lincolnton,” said Denise Freeman, an activist and former Lincoln County school board member. “This is not about convenience for the citizens. This is about control. This is about the good old boys wanting to do what they’ve always done, which is power and control.”












						All but one voting location might close in rural Georgia county
					

Election officials in rural Lincoln County in Georgia are considering a proposal to close all of the county's seven Election Day voting precincts and require in-person voters to report to a centralized site. Voting rights groups say the plan would make it harder to vote and disenfranchise voters...




					www.ajc.com
				






> “Folks should have access to their polling locations. They should be able to vote without having to drive 30 minutes to get there,” said Cindy Battles of the Georgia Coalition for the People’s Agenda, a civil rights group that has been collecting voter signatures for a petition drive to try to stop the closures.
> 
> There’s no public transportation available in Lincoln County, nor are there taxis, Uber or Lyft. Anyone who wants to vote would have to drive or walk to a polling place, or return an absentee ballot. Turnout decreases when voters have to travel farther to cast a ballot, according to a statistical analysis by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
> 
> Absentee voting also comes with new rules in Georgia after the General Assembly passed a statewide voting law this year. The law, Senate Bill 202, limited ballot drop boxes, added ID requirements, tightened absentee ballot request deadlinesand restricted mass mailings of absentee applications to voters.




I’d REALLY love for a Republican explain to me how this is anything *other than *voter suppression.


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> One county in Georgia has already moved to phase two of preventing people from voting. After the state legislature disbanded the county elections board, they installed GOP loyalists. Their first act: *They are closing 6 of the county’s 7 polling locations.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lincoln County looks to eliminate all polling places but one
> 
> 
> Lincoln County is trying to close all but one polling place for next year’s elections, in a move opposed by voting and civil rights groups.
> 
> 
> 
> www.augustachronicle.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All but one voting location might close in rural Georgia county
> 
> 
> Election officials in rural Lincoln County in Georgia are considering a proposal to close all of the county's seven Election Day voting precincts and require in-person voters to report to a centralized site. Voting rights groups say the plan would make it harder to vote and disenfranchise voters...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ajc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’d REALLY love for a Republican explain to me how this is anything *other than *voter suppression.



https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1481703348780912644/


----------



## Thomas Veil

You know, with Manchin and Sinema acting like ostriches, it's beginning to look like the only way we're going to have a fair election is if Biden invokes the Insurrection Act while he still can, and orders federal supervision of locations where this would-be election theft is going on. Yes, I know it would create howls of protest from the right, but are we gonna deal with that, or are we gonna never have a free and fair election again, living the rest of our lives under the thumbs of our Republican oppressors?



> The main provision of the Insurrection Act states that troops can only be deployed to an American state by the President if the governor or state legislature requests it.
> Another provision of the law, however, outlines that under certain limited circumstances *involved in the defense of constitutional rights*, the President can send troops unilaterally.












						What is the Insurrection Act?
					

Viral social media posts have falsely claimed that President Donald Trump invoked the Insurrection Act of 1807 law to deploy American soldiers to police US streets. That didn't happen.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1482138711173345280/
More please.


----------



## JayMysteri0

So, we all know this is coming from anyplace that the 'r's have NOT gerrymandered 99% in their favor.  So here's your preview...








> Fla. GOPer who lost special election by 59 points refuses to concede
> 
> 
> “I did not win, so they say, but that does not mean that they lost either,” said failed GOP candidate Jason Mariner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.salon.com





> A Florida Republican took a page out of former Donald Trump's playbook this week, refusing to concede a congressional special election he lost by more than 59 points in one of the state's most Democratic districts.
> 
> Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick, a health care executive who supports progressive policies like Medicare for All, the Green New Deal and a $1,000-per-month universal basic income, earlier this week defeated Republican Jason Mariner to succeed the late Rep. Alcee Hastings, a Democrat who served more than 14 terms in Congress before his death last April.
> 
> Mariner, however, refused to concede defeat despite losing the race by an overwhelming margin, roughly 79% to 20%.
> 
> "Now they called the race — I did not win, so they say, but that does not mean that they lost either, it does not mean that we lost," Mariner said after the race was called, according to CBS Miami.
> 
> Mariner filed a lawsuit before polls had even closed, alleging problems with ballots in Palm Beach and Broward counties.




This is the shit we are going to have to deal with from now on, because the "F your feelings" crowd can't take losing.

Tell me if this sounds familiar.



> "And we'll also have some stuff coming out that we've recently discovered," Mariner said, not specifying what kind of "stuff" could affect the outcome of a race he lost by almost 33,000 votes (out of the 54,000 cast).




I wonder what these 'r's are going to say if a dem ever files a lawsuit over losing an election? 



> Cherfilus-McCormick, who faced a failed lawsuit from Democratic primary foe Dave Holness after defeating him by a mere five votes, shrugged off Mariner's refusal to accept his defeat.
> 
> "Well, this wouldn't be my first time running against an opponent who is refusing to concede, so it's not our first time, and at the end of the day nothing can stop the motion," she told CBS Miami.
> 
> Supervisors of the election offices in Broward and Palm Beach told the outlet that it takes 14 days to certify the results after which Mariner has 10 days to challenge them.






> Candidates do not legally have to concede defeat, as evidenced by Trump's refusal to accept his loss for more than a year. But Trump's campaign of election lies has emboldened Republican candidates to follow suit and baselessly stoke doubts about election results even when they get blown out.






> Following the 2020 elections, Trump-endorsed Maryland congressional candidate Kim Klacik claimed that her election was "stolen" and alleged that Republican Gov. Larry Hogan helped her opponent after she lost by more than 40 points in a race to succeed the late Rep. Elijah Cummings in an overwhelmingly Democratic Baltimore district.
> 
> Similarly, Loren Culp, the Republican gubernatorial nominee in Washington state, refused to concede defeat to Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee despite losing by more than 545,000 votes. Culp filed a baseless lawsuit alleging fraud that was outright rejected by Republican Secretary of State Kim Wyman. Culp ultimately dropped the lawsuit last January after state Attorney General Bob Ferguson threatened him with sanctions over the frivolous challenge.
> 
> A growing number of Trump-allied Republicans have been quick to embrace election denialism. Adam Laxalt, a Republican U.S. Senate candidate in Nevada, has threatened to file lawsuits to "try to tighten up the election" 14 months before any votes are cast. Failed California recall candidate Larry Elder launched a website claiming voter fraud days before the votes were even counted.






> Democrats and their supporters have grown increasingly alarmed over the Republican Party's refusal to accept the will of the voters, as Republican lawmakers continue to cite doubts about "election integrity" — doubts they themselves have stoked — as a justification for impose draconian new voting restrictions across the country. Democrats, however, have been unable to pass new national voting rights legislation, largely because Sens. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., and Kyrsten Sinema, D-Ariz., continue to vociferously defend the filibuster.
> 
> "Once truth vanishes," Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe warned after Mariner's lawsuit, "all bets are off."


----------



## JayMysteri0

What could possibly go wrong? 



> GOP gubernatorial candidate David Perdue calls for new election police unit in Georgia
> 
> 
> Republican gubernatorial candidate David Perdue on Thursday called for the creation of an election police unit in Georgia, echoing a proposal by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and continuing Perdue's focus on election falsehoods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com





> (CNN)Republican gubernatorial candidate David Perdue on Thursday called for the creation of an election police unit in Georgia, echoing a proposal by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and continuing Perdue's focus on election falsehoods.
> 
> Perdue's plan would create "an Election Law Enforcement Division in the State of Georgia" that would "be charged with enforcing election laws, investigating election crimes and fraud, and arresting those who commit these offenses," according to a release from his campaign. Perdue's plan also called for "election results to be independently audited before certification."
> 
> Perdue, a former senator who lost his seat to Democratic Sen. Jon Ossoff in a runoff election last year, has made election falsehoods a central argument in his bid to unseat fellow Republican Gov. Brian Kemp in the gubernatorial primary.
> 
> After former President Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, he turned on Republicans in states that he lost, including Georgia, using his false claims about the election to turn his loyal supporters against the Republican elected officials. Kemp was a chief Trump target, and the former President has now endorsed Perdue's bid to unseat him.
> 
> "I'll do what Brian Kemp has failed to do," Perdue says in his statement. "I'll make Georgia elections the safest and securest in the country."
> DeSantis has proposed the creation of a dedicated police force to investigate election fraud, alarming voting rights advocates, local election officials and Democrats in the state.




https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1484219224180543491/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1484198046925672452/


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1483938406052810755/


----------



## Yoused

Texas Secretary Of State Claims There’s Not Enough Paper For Voter Registration Forms
					

The Texas Secretary of State’s office will be sending out fewer voter registration forms this year because of a “paper shortage,” the office says.



					talkingpointsmemo.com
				






Meanwhile, Moscow Mitch shows his liberal side, “_If you look at the statistics, African American voters are voting in just as high a percentage as Americans._”


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Yoused said:


> Texas Secretary Of State Claims There’s Not Enough Paper For Voter Registration Forms
> 
> 
> The Texas Secretary of State’s office will be sending out fewer voter registration forms this year because of a “paper shortage,” the office says.
> 
> 
> 
> talkingpointsmemo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, Moscow Mitch shows his liberal side, “_If you look at the statistics, African American voters are voting in just as high a percentage as Americans._”




When this happens Texas will provide a stone slab and a chisel which was the most common form of voting under the founders.  Tradition.


----------



## Yoused

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Texas will provide a stone slab and a chisel



Wait, I thought the voting system in Texas was tallied up in terms of calibers.


----------



## Yoused

Read the never-issued Trump order that would have seized voting machines
					

The Jan. 6 select panel has obtained the draft order and a document titled "Remarks on National Healing." Both are reported here in detail for the first time.




					www.politico.com
				




*The draft executive order shows that the weeks between Election Day and the Capitol attack could have been even more chaotic than they were. It credulously cites conspiracy theories about election fraud in Georgia and Michigan, as well as debunked notions about Dominion voting machines.

The order empowers the defense secretary to “seize, collect, retain and analyze all machines, equipment, electronically stored information, and material records required for retention under” a U.S. law that relates to preservation of election records. It also cites a lawsuit filed in 2017 against Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.

Additionally, the draft order would have given the defense secretary 60 days to write an assessment of the 2020 election. That suggests it could have been a gambit to keep (Individual-ONE) in power until at least mid-February of 2021.*​


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> Read the never-issued Trump order that would have seized voting machines
> 
> 
> The Jan. 6 select panel has obtained the draft order and a document titled "Remarks on National Healing." Both are reported here in detail for the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politico.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The draft executive order shows that the weeks between Election Day and the Capitol attack could have been even more chaotic than they were. It credulously cites conspiracy theories about election fraud in Georgia and Michigan, as well as debunked notions about Dominion voting machines.*​​*The order empowers the defense secretary to “seize, collect, retain and analyze all machines, equipment, electronically stored information, and material records required for retention under” a U.S. law that relates to preservation of election records. It also cites a lawsuit filed in 2017 against Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.*​​*Additionally, the draft order would have given the defense secretary 60 days to write an assessment of the 2020 election. That suggests it could have been a gambit to keep (Individual-ONE) in power until at least mid-February of 2021.*​



And the Republicans have the cojones to oppose the John Lewis voting rights act as a federal takeover of elections? They seem fine with supporting Trump who was going to use federal powers to seize local voting machines.

I can see why the Republicans never wanted a Jan 6 commission.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

SuperMatt said:


> And the Republicans have the cojones to oppose the John Lewis voting rights act as a federal takeover of elections? They seem fine with supporting Trump who was going to use federal powers to seize local voting machines.
> 
> I can see why the Republicans never wanted a Jan 6 commission.




Anytime Republicans are accusing Democrats of potentially about to do something you can pretty much take it as a confession that Republicans are already doing or have done some form of the same thing. Finding out exactly what it is takes some high level skills and training that involves typing some related terms in a search engine and clicking the top link.  From there you need to read.  That last step is key to how they keep a good part of their constituents in the dark.   The damning information is buried deep, like right in the first sentence after the headline.  You need a PhD to translate what is said after a headline.


----------



## Yoused

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> You need a PhD to translate what is said after a headline.



Goddamn librul elitest aigheads.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Yoused said:


> Goddamn librul elitest aigheads.




Reading isn't mentioned in the bible and therefore is unimportant.  And also explains why so many Christians are seemingly unaware of what it actually says.


----------



## Yoused

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Reading isn't mentioned in the bible and therefore is unimportant.  And also explains why so many Christians are seemingly unaware of what it actually says.



If you read the Bible unpenitent, you will soil its pages with you filthy sin-soaked hands. You must do your penitence and take eucharist before you can handle the holy book, at which point you are clean and ready to relax, which leads you to go out and sin again, in a never-ending cycle that prevents you from ever getting to the point where you can read the book.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Yoused said:


> If you read the Bible unpenitent, you will soil its pages with you filthy sin-soaked hands. You must do your penitence and take eucharist before you can handle the holy book, at which point you are clean and ready to relax, which leads you to go out and sin again, in a never-ending cycle that prevents you from ever getting to the point where you can read the book.




It does demand a lot of preparation.  That's why it's better to just write a check to your preacher and they'll take care of the reading part for you.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Another example of how Republicans are practitioners of he who smelt it dealt it, race-baiting, something the right incessantly accuses the left of doing.  Examples of the left doing this include letting a black man be president and pointing out when the police shoot black people.  Meanwhile, at Trump's latest rally Trump said white people are being forced to go to the back of the line for covid treatment.  Further back he definitely has some less than shining reviews of Muslims and people south of the border.  But yeah, the left is trying to start a race war.


----------



## GermanSuplex

Must-watch. I posted in the Jan 6 thread, but holy heck. The good stuff starts a little over 13 minutes in. Live interview with Peter Navarro, Boris Epshteyn and Dustin Stockton. Lots of admissions and mind-numbing repetitions of "massive voter fraud". No proof of course...


----------



## JayMysteri0




----------



## JayMysteri0

Deep dive time courtesy of Mr. Harriot

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1485474221073575939/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1485474235678085125/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1485474246063239172/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1485474256221790208/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1485474266535628801/

There's more, but you get the idea.


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> Deep dive time courtesy of Mr. Harriot
> 
> There's more, but you get the idea.




Thanks for posting this, definitely educated me on a couple of points - and just insane that in 140+ years, we're almost back to square one.  WTF.


----------



## Huntn

Cawthorn Challenge Raises the Question: Who Is an ‘Insurrectionist’?​The challenge to Representative Madison Cawthorn’s re-election bid could set a precedent to challenge other Republicans who encouraged the Jan. 6 attack.









						Cawthorn Challenge Raises the Question: Who Is an ‘Insurrectionist’?
					

The challenge to Representative Madison Cawthorn’s re-election bid could set a precedent to challenge other Republicans who encouraged the Jan. 6 attack.




					www.nytimes.com
				



Pay Wall, use Safari reader mode if not subscribed.

WASHINGTON —_ A group of lawyers is working to disqualify from the ballot a right-wing House Republican who cheered on the Jan. 6 rioters unless he can prove he is not an “insurrectionist,” disqualified by the Constitution from holding office, in a case with implications for other officeholders and potentially former President Donald J. Trump.

The novel challenge to the re-election bid of Representative Madison Cawthorn, one of the House’s brashest supporters of Mr. Trump and the lie that the 2020 election was stolen, could set a precedent to challenge other Republicans who swore to uphold the Constitution, then encouraged the attack.

While the House committee investigating the assault on the Capitol has so far been unsuccessful in its effort to force key members of Congress to cooperate with the inquiry, the North Carolina case has already prompted a legal discussion — one that is likely to land in court — about what constitutes an insurrection, and who is an insurrectionist.

And for the first time, a lawmaker who embraced the rioters may have to answer for his actions in a court of law._

Key Figures in the Jan. 6 Inquiry​*Ivanka Trump. *_The daughter of the former president, who served as one of his senior advisers, has been asked to cooperate after the panel said it had gathered evidence that she had implored her father to call off the violence as his supporters stormed the Capitol.
*Mark Meadows. *Mr. Trump’s chief of staff, who initially provided the panel with a trove of documents that showed the extent of his role in the efforts to overturn the election, is now refusing to cooperate. The House voted to recommend holding Mr. Meadows in criminal contempt of Congress.
*Scott Perry and Jim Jordan. *The Republican representatives of Pennsylvania and Ohio are among a group of G.O.P. congressmen who were deeply involved in efforts to overturn the election. Both Mr. Perry and Mr. Jordan have refused to cooperate with the panel.
*Big Tech firms. *The panel has criticized Alphabet, Meta, Reddit and Twitter for allowing extremism to spread on their platforms and saying they have failed to cooperate adequately with the inquiry. The committee has issued subpoenas to all four companies.
*Roger Stone and Alex Jones. *The panel’s interest in the political operative and the conspiracy theorist indicate that investigators are intent on learning the details of the planning and financing of rallies that drew Mr. Trump’s supporters to Washington based on his lies of a stolen election.
*Michael Flynn. *Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser attended an Oval Office meeting on Dec. 18 in which participants discussed seizing voting machines and invoking certain national security emergency powers. Mr. Flynn has filed a lawsuit to block the panel’s subpoenas.
*John Eastman. *The lawyer has been the subject of intense scrutiny since writing a memo that laid out how Mr. Trump could stay in power. Mr. Eastman was present at a meeting of Trump allies at the Willard Hotel that has become a prime focus of the panel._


----------



## ronntaylor

Huntn said:


> Cawthorn Challenge Raises the Question: Who Is an ‘Insurrectionist’?​



I suspect he may not run for re-election with the excuse that his district was changed but really because of this headache.


----------



## JayMysteri0

WTF Texas?  You really expect people to believe it's a paper shortage issue, AFTER you've gotten rid of online voter registration?



> Southern Lawmakers Offer Paper After Texas Rations Voter Forms
> 
> 
> Texas conveniently blamed "supply chain issues" for not sending forms to key voter registration groups, ahead of the looming Jan. 31 deadline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jezebel.com





> With Texas’ voter registration deadline looming on Jan. 31, the state—which requires voters to physically print and complete their applications on paper—recently announced a “paper shortage” that would require it to ration the number of forms going out to voter registration groups. Secretary of State John B. Scott’s office cited an alleged supply chain issue driving up the prices of paper, but a coalition of Southern state legislators are calling BS.
> 
> In a letter signed by 40 lawmakers from Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, North Carolina and Tennessee, and delivered to the Texas secretary of state’s office on Thursday, the lawmakers pledged to send their own paper to support voter registration efforts in the state.
> 
> “Because Texas is one of just eight states that still does not allow online voter registration, you leave your voters with no option but paper,” the letter states. “Fortunately, we have paper in our states. We would like to extend an offer to the people of Texas to assist with the procurement of paper for the purpose of printing applications to register to vote.”
> 
> While the lawmakers, who include Mississippi state Rep. Zakiya Summers, Florida state Rep. Fentrice Driskell, North Carolina state Sen. Natalie Murdock, and others, note that they “cannot, at this time, commit direct appropriations from our state coffers,” they offered to use “state and private resources that we can leverage to help Texas solve its problem.”


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> WTF Texas?  You really expect people to believe it's a paper shortage issue, AFTER you've gotten rid of online voter registration.



When you rely on stupid it's easy...oh and when they are deaf, it's real easy...


----------



## Yoused

*RepJohn Fillmore, AZ Lege:
I don’t care what the press says. I don’t trust ABC, CBS, NBC or Fox or anybody out there. Everybody’s lying to me and I feel like I have a couple hundred ex-wives hanging around me. This is not a President Biden thing. This is not a the other red-headed guy thing. We should have voting in my opinion in person, one day, on paper, with no electronic means and hand counting that day. We need to get back to 1958-style voting.​*​
like, back in the day, when them neegroes and mezzcans couldn't


----------



## JayMysteri0

Yoused said:


> *RepJohn Fillmore, AZ Lege:*​*I don’t care what the press says. I don’t trust ABC, CBS, NBC or Fox or anybody out there. Everybody’s lying to me and I feel like I have a couple hundred ex-wives hanging around me. This is not a President Biden thing. This is not a the other red-headed guy thing. We should have voting in my opinion in person, one day, on paper, with no electronic means and hand counting that day. We need to get back to 1958-style voting.*​
> 
> ​
> like, back in the day, when them neegroes and mezzcans couldn't



I believe to him & others, that is when America was great.

Fewer people allowed to vote meant shorter lines, so no big deal voting in person on one day with just a few paper ballots.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> WTF Texas?  You really expect people to believe it's a paper shortage issue, AFTER you've gotten rid of online voter registration?



The Texas voting situation is even worse than that.








> In Texas, election workers are reporting that hundreds of applications for mail-in ballots are being rejected, one of the early effects of the state's new Republican-backed voting law.
> 
> It requires that voters provide either a partial Social Security number or a driver's license number on their ballot application. And that number has to match what's on their original voter registration. The problem is, most people don't remember what form of I.D. they initially provided, especially older voters who registered decades ago.



That’s pretty crappy. But perhaps they could call their local elections office for some help?



> Dana Debeauvoir, Travis County, Texas, Clerk:
> 
> In so many ways, we can't even practice free speech with voters. You can't call them back to cure a problem with their application or their ballot, because that's seen as promoting by-mail voting, when all we really want to do is figure out what their new correct identification number should be.





> A violation carries a mandatory minimum of six months imprisonment and a fine of up to $10,000.



So if your local election office helps you fix your ballot, they can go to jail for 6 months and pay a $10K fine.

This is blatant voter suppression. Let’s not forget: this law never should have come into existence. Justice Roberts, who promised not to be an “activist” as a Supreme Court Justice, overturned a law passed unanimously by Congress because in his personal opinion, the pre-clearance states were no longer run by racists.

Let’s also point out that Congress was given the green light to re-impose the pre-clearance if they wanted based on recent suppression efforts. That is what the bills currently being debated in Congress are trying to do.

But, Manchin and Sinema think that the filibuster is more important than the voting rights of everybody, including this this guy:



> That includes this 95-year-old World War II veteran, who says his mail-in ballot application has been denied twice due to new requirements.




Republicans whine constantly about the government bureaucracy. They promise to reduce it, and make your taxes so easy you can file them on a postcard. But when it comes to voting, they do the exact opposite of that.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Twitter today in the "What's Happening" section:


> Former president Donald Trump releases a statement repeating misleading claims about the 2020 election and discussing former vice president Mike Pence's role in the Senate following the results




Amazingly there are those who still have doubts or deny the 2X impeached former president plotted to steal the election.  While crying about others stealing anything by having the nerve to vote for another candidate in greater numbers.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1487969330537107457/

Despite the best efforts of the 2X impeached former president himself TELLING EVERYONE

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1487939724744572934/

The importance of this right the former VP is because of the scheme the campaign of the 2X impeached former president came up with.



> PolitiFact - What you need to know about the fake Trump electors
> 
> 
> Several weeks after the 2020 election, groups of electors gathered in state Capitols to sign certificates affirming whic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.politifact.com




There were only fake electors in 7 states, states that Joe Biden won.  The expectation on the campaign's part was that with anything questionable the VP could either ignore the states giving 45th president 4 more years of protection from prosecution.  Or use the alternate slate of electors & claim the president did win those states, thus winning the election despite those states NOT voting the 45th president as their president again.  The guy practically confesses to the world, yet isn't in trouble.  Proving that whole shooting someone bit seems sadly too true.


----------



## GermanSuplex

What a dolt. Trump may as well just stop trying to wink and nod his way through these things, he's pretty much said everything there is to say except for "I hate non-whites" and "I don't care what the actual votes are, let's resort to violence". He's literally said and done everything else to prove that's how he feels and what he wants.


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> Twitter today in the "What's Happening" section:
> 
> 
> Amazingly there are those who still have doubts or deny the 2X impeached former president plotted to steal the election.  While crying about others stealing anything by having the nerve to vote for another candidate in greater numbers.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1487969330537107457/
> 
> Despite the best efforts of the 2X impeached former president himself TELLING EVERYONE
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1487939724744572934/
> 
> The importance of this right the former VP is because of the scheme the campaign of the 2X impeached former president came up with.
> 
> 
> 
> There were only fake electors in 7 states, states that Joe Biden won.  The expectation on the campaign's part was that with anything questionable the VP could either ignore the states giving 45th president 4 more years of protection from prosecution.  Or use the alternate slate of electors & claim the president did win those states, thus winning the election despite those states NOT voting the 45th president as their president again.  The guy practically confesses to the world, yet isn't in trouble.  Proving that whole shooting someone bit seems sadly too true.



God his name associated with _Forty Fifth President of the United States. _To do it Justice_ “The Most Disgraceful POS” _should be inserted in front of that for proper reference.


----------



## Yoused

Huntn said:


> God his name associated with _Forty Fifth President of the United States. _To do it Justice_ “The Most Disgraceful POS” _should be inserted in front of that for proper reference.



"Individual-ONE, 45th POtuS"


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## SuperMatt

Trump was working on a plan to seize voting machines… This guy needs to be locked up. He is a traitor, plain and simple.









						Trump Had Role in Weighing Proposals to Seize Voting Machines
					

New accounts show that the former president was more directly involved than previously known in plans developed by outside advisers to use national security agencies to seek evidence of fraud.




					www.nytimes.com
				



(paywall removed)


----------



## SuperMatt

Trump‘s cabinet had a plan to use the NSA data in order to try and claim that foreign interference caused Biden to win.



			https://wapo.st/3ooq6Pk
		

(paywall removed)



> The memo used the banal language of government bureaucracy, but the proposal it advocated was extreme: President Donald Trump should invoke the extraordinary powers of the National Security Agency and Defense Department to sift through raw electronic communications in an attempt to show that foreign powers had intervened in the 2020 election to help Joe Biden win.
> 
> Proof of foreign interference would “support next steps to defend the Constitution in a manner superior to current civilian-only judicial remedies,” argued the Dec. 18, 2020, memo, which was circulated among Trump allies.
> The document, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Post, laid out a plan for the president to appoint three men to lead this effort. One was a lawyer attached to a military intelligence unit; another was a veteran of the military who had been let go from his National Security Council job after claiming that Trump was under attack by deep-state forces including “globalists” and “Islamists.”




After all the crying about the Mueller Report “witch hunt,” and the supposed illegal spying on Carter Page… they do something like this.


----------



## GermanSuplex

I’m just curious, at what point is all of this criminal? If this is all just borderline bad but not actually criminal, then what? We just let presidents work to overturn elections based on garbage and lies, so long as they say “well, we believed the election was rigged and we tried to overturn it legally?”

And do these cons and Trump realize that any powers they claim they or VP Pence had, by default means Biden and Harris have the same powers? Trump is on one hand saying BLM and ANTIFA and maybe even the FBI were involved with January 6, but on the other saying it was just concerned patriots whom he may pardon.

None of this holds up to any scrutiny, some of the lies are so outlandish it beggars belief that millions of Americans believe it.

Im sick with the hypocrisy. Remember when they said Obama would try for three terms? Yet President Obama and Michelle Obama welcomed Trump to the White House. The former presidents attended his inauguration, Hillary too. Yet Trump’s fragile little ego wouldn’t allow him to return the favor and engage in the peaceful transition. This country is full of millions of dumb mother f******s. It has to be to let this morally bankrupt man child throw tantrums and still support him. When will people tell him to shut the fuck up and grow up a little? Dems need to stop trying to negotiate or think logic and reason will sink in with these folks. It won’t. They need to be publicly humiliated and called out for their idiocy, supporting a bankrupt dumbass and allowing their party to be reduced to a cult that’s sole purpose is to placate the ego of one guy. I mean, Lindsey Graham has kissed his ass so hard, and with one interview where he timidly disagrees with Trump, Trump calls him a RINO. Don’t these GOP morons realize they together are more powerful than any one guy, especially Trump?


----------



## MEJHarrison

GermanSuplex said:


> I’m just curious, at what point is all of this criminal?




Probably when you loose the ability to hand out money, power and favors.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Florida republicans showing their shame & desperation or when 'r's DO like voter registration drives.



> Elderly Florida Democrats Say GOP Canvassers Duped Them Into Changing Party Affiliation
> 
> 
> A local news outlets spoke with multiple residents of a Miami housing project who say they were duped. The vice chair of the state’s Ethics and Elections Committee is calling for an investigation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rollingstone.com






> More Miami voters report illegitimate party affiliation changes
> 
> 
> Miami-Dade Elections Department 2021-22 records show more than 5,000 registered Democrats switched their party affiliation to Republican.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.local10.com





> In November, Republicans celebrated that the number of registered Republican voters in Florida surpassed Democrats. They credited the change to an aggressive voter registration campaign.
> 
> After an 84-year-old woman who lives in Little Havana said she was a victim of the unauthorized change, The Republican Party of Florida released a statement in December:
> 
> “RPOF conducts its voter registration operation in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations. At no time was this voter registration changed without the registrant’s permission.”
> 
> Other victims were nearby at the Haley Sofge Towers in Little Havana. Armando Selva recently said he saw people wearing red baseball caps talking to residents about their voter registrations.
> 
> Juan Carlos Salazar and Ernesto Moricon, also seniors who live at the Haley Sofge Towers, said they too remember the people in the red hats and they also received erroneous voter registration cards.
> 
> “People are being taken advantage of,” Sen. Annette Taddeo recently said. “Lots of these people don’t speak English or are elderly.”



_By the way, read the comments below the story.  SUDDENLY the 'r' commentariat are some of the most patient sorts who don't believe in a rush to yell "voter fraud"._


----------



## Thomas Veil

You know, with everybody crediting Pence for saying he did not have the power to overturn the election, remember this:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1490314080812470272/

Credit to @JayMysteri0. I found that buried in the comments section of a tweet he posted.


----------



## SuperMatt

Thomas Veil said:


> You know, with everybody crediting Pence for saying he did not have the power to overturn the election, remember this:
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1490314080812470272/
> 
> Credit to @JayMysteri0. I found that buried in the comments section of a tweet he posted.



They had Marc Short, the former VP’s chief of staff, on Meet the Press this morning. He kept insisting there was something suspicious about the 2020 election, but also said that he believes Biden is the President. Talk about having your cake and trying to eat it too… He just ignored Chuck Todd who mentioned there was no evidence of anything fishy. It was an extremely soft interview by Todd.. he could have kept pressing him to provide evidence that anything untoward happened in the 2020 elections, but he just let him spew his prepared talking points instead. Weak. Sauce.

Can anybody other than Cheney and Kinzinger in the GOP stop being utter cowards? If they all united against Trump, he’d already be in the dustbin of history. SAD.


----------



## Thomas Veil

SuperMatt said:


> It was an extremely soft interview by Todd.. he could have kept pressing him to provide evidence that anything untoward happened in the 2020 elections, but he just let him spew his prepared talking points instead. Weak. Sauce.



Pretty much why I stopped watching those shows. They're kind of pointless. I think at least some reporters would like to ask tougher questions, but they all know that if they do, their access to Republican guests will vanish overnight.


----------



## lizkat

Thomas Veil said:


> Pretty much why I stopped watching those shows. They're kind of pointless. I think at least some reporters would like to ask tougher questions, but they all know that if they do, their access to Republican guests will vanish overnight.




So let them interview a Democrat and an empty chair going forward for a few weekends in a row.   And let the conversation be about why the Republicans don't want to answer the tough questions that are out there for a party that's inexplicably calling itself beholden to a guy who tried to interfere with a sitting government obliged to oversee peaceful transfer of power. 

Sooner or later the Republican National Committee, along with its curiously subservient rank and file,  do all have to answer for why they continue to maintain at least public allegiance to a former US President who has disgraced office, party, country.   Some of the insurrectionists --whose violence on January 6th too many GOP officials have winked at or even denied--  are looking at prison time,  and still the Republican Party fails to acknowledge the seditious nature of Trump's efforts to prevent the accession of a duly elected successor to the White House.

If the Republicans don't want to explain themselves to America on TV at the weekend,  they'll still be talked about at the kitchen table and risk being ignored at the ballot boxes in November.

There comes a time when simple intention to retain power at any cost to democracy is not a platform on which a party's candidates can run for office successfully in the USA.   That time is probably  2022, and it's because more conservative and evangelical voters will say so. Not so many of those plain or lesser public figures have  been asked to come on TV and say those quiet parts out loud yet.   But mass media looking to fill slots the GOP increasingly declines to fill may soon enough figure out that Republican Party officials don't speak for all the right-leaning voters in the USA.


----------



## GermanSuplex

Just saw a story out of Florida in which people at a senior home mostly for Hispanic folks who speak little English are having their registrations switched from Democrat to Republican by Republican Party operatives who are fooling them.

Unlike the cries of 2020 fraud, these are real people with real stories.

Again, why doesn’t the press start asking these Trump ass-kissing republicans to come up with proof. Ask for names. Show the list of Trump voters who’s ballots were switched to Biden. Show the list of votes that were tallied for Biden who were not eligible to cast a ballot. This isn’t rocket science. Ballots are tangible. Voters exist. If there was a disconnect of millions of ballots, how hard would it be to provide a list of 0.0001 percent of those fraudulent votes?

And on the subject, Rachel Maddow had a great story about four or five individuals who were caught trying to vote illegally. Some cast ballots of their dead mother for Trump. One was a woman who completed parole and tried to register - not vote illegally - and was unaware she was ineligible to vote. All except the woman got no prison time. The woman is facing another five years in prison. Care to guess what the race of the woman was vs. the men who got no time?

She’s not the only one. White Republican voters casting ballots for deceased family members are walking, while black voters who are simply trying to register or who are unaware a prior conviction makes them inellgible to vote are being made examples of.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1489443301828747277/


----------



## Alli

Changing their registration from D to R shouldn’t make a difference to anyone but pollsters.


----------



## SuperMatt

Alli said:


> Changing their registration from D to R shouldn’t make a difference to anyone but pollsters.



Does it affect which primary they can vote in though?


----------



## ronntaylor

Alli said:


> Changing their registration from D to R shouldn’t make a difference to anyone but pollsters.



So not true. Florida is a closed primary state. So those Dem voters can't vote for their preferred candidate in  Democratic primaries. I'm willing to bet a small sum that the perps that illegally switched the seniors' party affiliation are probably part of a plan to run fake Dem candidates. Again.


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Does it affect which primary they can vote in though?






ronntaylor said:


> So not true. Florida is a closed primary state. So those Dem voters can't vote for their preferred candidate in  Democratic primaries. I'm willing to bet a small sum that the perps that illegally switched the seniors' party affiliation are probably part of a plan to run fake Dem candidates. Again.




That will really screw up the Republicans. Dems go to vote in a primary and find they can only vote R can vote for the worst possible candidate so that it’s easier to win the “real” election. 

Until primaries are held on the same day in every state, they’re a waste of our time. Half the candidates fold following that first sweep and I never get to vote for _my_ candidate anyway.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

The short of it on the major holdup - good luck putting together a jury that doesn’t include a “I don’t give a shit” Trump supporter.


----------



## lizkat

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> The short of it on the major holdup - good luck putting together a jury that doesn’t include a “I don’t give a shit” Trump supporter.




See the thing is that no contemporary historians (or in this case Congressional committee) can put together a narrative that will necessarily break through a personality of cult, which status is essentially impervious to most facts suggesting the cult leader has feet of clay. 

Sure that guy in the video ("Beau of the Fifth Column")  is right about a prosecutorial narrative being necessary in a trial,  for the jury to be convinced that the evidence adds up to enough reason to convict an accused person. 

However, what it takes to break down support for a cult leader is different.  There it takes sufficiently accrued physical and/or emotional pain from experiences that the follower personally connects to having followed the cult leader.   Even then there can be those who will continue to support the cult leader no matter what consequences ensue.

So Beau is probably right about potential difficulty in getting a conviction.  There are are a lot of people out and about in the USA who are well practiced by now in obscuring their public support of former President Trump.  Some folks may imagine that you can't fool a bunch of lawyers on either side in a voir dire,  but then maybe they've never had to attend a holiday dinner where half the table hates Donald Trump but is perfectly capable of praising the host's also despised specialty dish, whether it's gravy with giblets or some sweet potato concoction with yet more sugars added.  Plenty of people caught between a rock and a hard place could get a gold medal for ad hoc dissembling.

The problem that the House investigation of the insurrection poses for both major parties is that very soon all the congress critters will want to shift focus firmly forward to the familiar terrain of midterm campaigns -- pocketbook issues,  hot button social issues etc.   Meanwhile neither party can be sure right now of how to use the very existence of the "January 6th"  committee or its so far unreached conclusions.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Oh God!  These people are clueless F'N idiots & still somehow managed to scam the country.  WTF?!

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1491589647889223681/


----------



## JayMysteri0

Idiots continued...
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1491917341705134083/


----------



## GermanSuplex

I saw a video of that lady running for SOS getting arrested, resisting the police I’m sure she defends anytime a person of color in her position gets their skull cracked. I’m sure it’s different when she resists police, because she has the more justifiable task of spreading election bullshit. She’s a patriot, the others are just criminals. She has _legitimate_ reasons.


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1493954829072453632/

Makes you wonder if the former 2X impeached president had a presidential  library, what would it be?

Several wings of empty rooms saying "Executive privilege", and one closet filled with stuff stolen from the WH?


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> Makes you wonder if the former 2X impeached president had a presidential  library, what would it be?
> 
> Several wings of empty rooms saying "Executive privilege", and one closet filled with stuff stolen from the WH?




Hah, close to good!  But I'm quite partial to the existing *satirical spoof of an online Trump presidential library*... and an accompanying Twitter account which styles itself as the *Donald J. Trump Presidential Anti-Library**.  *

 The website has been up for quite awhile now, since late 2020, and is the digital brainchild of a New York architectural practice which at least at first had desired to remain anonymous.  I haven't kept up with whether that veil has been lifted, but the site itself is extremely entertaining, elegant and informative with a number of  sub-portals featuring assorted takes on Trump's time in the WH.   The website crew describe themselves in a FAQ as "an army of curators, writers, designers, and general trouble makers”...


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

lizkat said:


> Hah, close to good!  But I'm quite partial to the existing *satirical spoof of an online Trump presidential library*... and an accompanying Twitter account which styles itself as the *Donald J. Trump Presidential Anti-Library**.  *
> 
> The website has been up for quite awhile now, since late 2020, and is the digital brainchild of a New York architectural practice which at least at first had desired to remain anonymous.  I haven't kept up with whether that veil has been lifted, but the site itself is extremely entertaining, elegant and informative with a number of  sub-portals featuring assorted takes on Trump's time in the WH.   The website crew describe themselves in a FAQ as "an army of curators, writers, designers, and general trouble makers”...





Part of it shares my belief that it should instead be a Presidential Courthouse celebrating his lifetime of legal troubles.


----------



## SuperMatt

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Part of it shares my belief that it should instead be a Presidential Courthouse celebrating his lifetime of legal troubles.



It could be a haunted house…


----------



## Yoused

Apparently the leader of tie "Oath Keepers" tried to press a legal action to restrict Biden's authority using the argument that he is akin to being the "Steward of Gondor ", a placeholder maintaining the realm until tie return of the proper Aragorn king.









						Oath Keepers Founder Secretly Backed Lawsuit for Government Based on ‘Lord of the Rings’
					

Lawyers for Stewart Rhodes are arguing their client stopped trying to overturn the election after Jan. 6. That’s not exactly true.



					www.thedailybeast.com
				




It did not go well.


----------



## JayMysteri0

"It's not a bug, it's a feature"

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1494754149900165120/


----------



## Yoused

JayMysteri0 said:


> "It's not a bug, it's a feature"
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1494754149900165120/



My wait time for voting was on the order of 4 seconds – there was someone else at the drop box by the library when I got there. The drop box at the Park & Ride can get crowded at 19:30 on Tuesday, but I have not observed waits much longer than a couple minutes.

Vote-suppressing Republiopaths really hate mail-in voting.


----------



## SuperMatt

Well, well, well… look who may have committed voter fraud:









						Why Did Mark Meadows Register to Vote at an Address Where He Did Not Reside? — The New Yorker
					

In September, 2020, Donald Trump’s then chief of staff claimed to live in a mobile home in North Carolina.




					apple.news
				






> On September 19th, about three weeks before North Carolina’s voter-registration deadline for the general election, Meadows filed his paperwork. On a line that asked for his residential address—“where you physically live,” the form instructs—Meadows wrote down the address of a fourteen-by-sixty-two-foot mobile home in Scaly Mountain. He listed his move-in date for this address as the following day, September 20th.
> 
> 
> Meadows does not own this property and never has. It is not clear that he has ever spent a single night there. (He did not respond to a request for comment.) The previous owner, who asked that we not use her name, now lives in Florida. “That was just a summer home,” she told me, when I called her up the other day. She seemed surprised to learn that the residence was listed on the Meadowses’ forms.




Nobody will do anything to Mark Meadows in North Carolina. This is FURTHER proof that the crusade against voter fraud has nothing to do with it, and everything to do with suppressing the vote. Maybe the good folks of North Carolina will prove me wrong and lock Mark Meadows up….   ok just kidding.


----------



## mac_in_tosh

JayMysteri0 said:


> Makes you wonder if the former 2X impeached president had a presidential  library, what would it be?
> 
> Several wings of empty rooms saying "Executive privilege", and one closet filled with stuff stolen from the WH?



Plus an upside down bible.


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1493954829072453632/
> 
> Makes you wonder if the former 2X impeached president had a presidential  library, what would it be?
> 
> Several wings of empty rooms saying "Executive privilege", and one closet filled with stuff stolen from the WH?



I never had high regard for W and thought his library would be filled with comic books and Playboys. Now Donny, your description Is a good as any or maybe they can make it a Hall of Shame if it is ever built, because if it is built and honestly portrayed what else could it be?

The genius of our 45th: _Here is Donny low balling the value of property for tax purposes, and then here he is highly inflating the value for the purpose of acquiring a loan on it. _
A great leader who solved the Korean Crisis.
A great Patriot who strongly believed in Vlad’s word he had nothing to do meddling with US elections, told US intelligence agencies to mind their own business, and during the Ukraine War praised his favorite _strong man murder-hero_ as a genius.
A great team builder who single handedly nearly broke the US’s reputation as he brought all of NATO together to despise him.
A great environmentalist who disbanded more environmental laws than all of his predecessors combined.
A great communicator who told a many great lies, turning the White House into a store front, _Buy Your Favors Here!_
And benevolent too, _punished for a crime you committed for me? No worries I’ve got a pocket full of pardons!_


----------



## JayMysteri0

Finally the 'r's showing their true faces boldly

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1500933635901378565/

"If you investigate us & find us committing any wrong doing because we tried to overthrow the country because we didn't get our way...  We'll go to war politically!"

So much for that whole "democracy" thing we had going on, that we like to talk so much about.


----------



## SuperMatt

The Supreme Court has ruled that court-drawn election maps in North Carolina and Pennsylvania must be used for the upcoming elections there. These maps overturned extreme gerrymanders. So this is a win for democracy. Unfortunately, it may only be a temporary reprieve for our form of government.

North Carolina lawmakers tossed out the preposterous idea that courts have no jurisdiction when it comes to laws regarding elections. Add that to the fact that 4 conservative justices agreed with that, and that SCOTUS previously ruled that federal courts have no jurisdiction in such matters. What does that mean? State legislatures can do whatever they want when it comes to gerrymanders and other election, regardless of their state constitutions?

It wasn’t long ago the same court ruled that they have more jurisdiction over how elections are run than Congress does when they invalidated the voting rights act.

These rulings are wildly inconsistent in their reasoning. But conservative justices are chillingly consistent in their steady erosion of voting rights, using any convoluted reasoning necessary.



			https://wapo.st/3pK11yM
		

(paywall removed)


----------



## SuperMatt

The Editorial Board of The Washington Post has a few things to say about Mark Meadows (see previous post for context on his possible voter fraud)









						Stealing The Election 101
					

Makes you wonder if the former 2X impeached president had a presidential :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: library, what would it be?  Several wings of empty rooms saying "Executive privilege", and one closet filled with stuff stolen from the WH?   Hah, close to good!  But I'm quite partial to the...




					talkedabout.com
				






			https://wapo.st/3665ogM
		

(paywall removed)



> Strict voting rules for thee, but not for me.
> 
> How else to summarize the revelations that Mark Meadows, the last White House chief of staff to President Donald Trump, and his wife voted in the 2020 election using the address of a mobile home in North Carolina where they did not reside? Mr. Meadows, who was eager to promote Mr. Trump’s lies that mail-in voting is rife with fraud, never owned the residence. In fact, he might not have ever set foot in it.
> 
> Compare this case with that of Crystal Mason, the Texas resident who was sentenced to five years in prison for submitting an illegal provisional ballot in 2016 while on supervised release for a felony conviction. Ms. Mason, who is Black, maintains that she did not know she was unable to vote and that a poll worker handed her the provisional ballot even though she was not on the state’s voter rolls. “It was to make an example out of me,” Ms. Mason told the American Civil Liberties Union of her prosecution.


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> The Editorial Board of The Washington Post has a few things to say about Mark Meadows (see previous post for context on his possible voter fraud)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing The Election 101
> 
> 
> Makes you wonder if the former 2X impeached president had a presidential :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: library, what would it be?  Several wings of empty rooms saying "Executive privilege", and one closet filled with stuff stolen from the WH?   Hah, close to good!  But I'm quite partial to the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> talkedabout.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://wapo.st/3665ogM
> 
> 
> (paywall removed)





These guys on the Trump team so deserve to end up in prison, swinging for the fences of the _facist form of freedom_... where he and they decide who gets to do what, and everyone else is told they're free not to believe anything they hear or see unless it comes from The Don and his crowd.

Yet he and they keep skating, and ordinary people are who end up in the slam.  Something's broken.


----------



## SuperMatt

lizkat said:


> These guys on the Trump team so deserve to end up in prison, swinging for the fences of the _facist form of freedom_... where he and they decide who gets to do what, and everyone else is told they're free not to believe anything they hear or see unless it comes from The Don and his crowd.
> 
> Yet he and they keep skating, and ordinary people are who end up in the slam.  Something's broken.



It is my opinion based on my observations that ripping off, scamming, etc. millions of middle class or lower income people results in little to no accountability. Look at countless stories like Wells Fargo literally stealing from their customers for years, and they just got a fine. No executives did jail time for grand larceny. And no jail time for anybody that essentially destroyed the economy in 2008.

But if you rip off rich people, they will come for you. Whether it’s shoplifting diapers (recent NYPD brag-fest) or stealing a LOT of money from them like Bernie Madoff… somehow the law falls hard on your head in such cases.

I was listening to parts of Les Miserables today which made me think… how much longer will our society be able to infinitely reward the rich and punish the poor before we get another revolution?


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

SuperMatt said:


> It is my opinion based on my observations that ripping off, scamming, etc. millions of middle class or lower income people results in little to no accountability. Look at countless stories like Wells Fargo literally stealing from their customers for years, and they just got a fine. No executives did jail time for grand larceny. And no jail time for anybody that essentially destroyed the economy in 2008.
> 
> But if you rip off rich people, they will come for you. Whether it’s shoplifting diapers (recent NYPD brag-fest) or stealing a LOT of money from them like Bernie Madoff… somehow the law falls hard on your head in such cases.
> 
> I was listening to parts of Les Miserable today which made me think… how much longer will our society be able to infinitely reward the rich and punish the poor before we get another revolution?





In simple terms summary

Profit from scam:  $1 billion
Fine for scam:  $500 million
Remaining profit from scam: $500 million


----------



## lizkat

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> In simple terms summary
> 
> Profit from scam:  $1 billion
> Fine for scam:  $500 million
> Remaining profit from scam: $500 million




I was thinking something like that today when reading about two fines that JP Morgan Chase shelled out for repeated and longstanding recordkeeping violations.   One to the SEC for $175 million and one to the CFTC for another $75 million. 

So 200 million bucks in all, plus a (valuable) admission of failure to oversee communication methods and to observe recordkeeping requirements.

But see their GAAP net income for 2021 was $48.334 billion, up 65.9% from $29.131 billion in the previous year









						SEC, CFTC fine JPMorgan Chase $200M for recordkeeping violations
					

JPMorgan Chase will pay $200 million in fines to settle charges brought by two federal regulators regarding the bank's failure to maintain records of communications on securities, commodities, and swaps business matters made on bank employees' personal devices.




					www.complianceweek.com
				






> Citing “widespread and longstanding failures” to maintain and preserve text and personal email messages and WhatsApp chats, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) announced a $125 million fine against the bank Friday to settle violations of the agency’s books and records rules by a subsidiary, JPMorgan Securities, dating back to 2018. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) announced a $75 million fine for similar violations dating back to 2015.
> 
> The bank acknowledged to the SEC that JPMorgan Securities failed to “reasonably supervise its employees with a view to preventing or detecting certain of its employees’ aiding and abetting violations.” The bank also admitted to the violations alleged by the CFTC regarding its commodities and swaps businesses. In both cases, JPMorgan agreed to cease and desist from future violations of the agencies’ record-keeping regulations.






> According to the SEC’s order, from at least January 2018 through at least November 2020, “JPMorgan employees regularly communicated about securities business matters on their personal devices, using text messaging applications (including WhatsApp) and personal email accounts. None of these records was preserved by the firm. The failure was firm-wide and involved employees at all levels of authority.”
> 
> The SEC noted “dozens of managing directors across the firm and senior supervisors responsible for implementing JPMorgan’s policies and procedures, and for overseeing employees’ compliance with those policies and procedures, themselves failed to comply with firm policies by communicating using non-firm approved methods on their personal devices about the firm’s securities business.”






> One executive director on the capital markets desk sent more than 2,400 texts in a one-year period from his personal device. JPMorgan could not furnish these texts when requested by the SEC, according to the order.
> 
> From January 2018 to November 2019, JPMorgan desk heads, managing directors, and other senior executives sent and received more than 21,000 text and email messages “using unapproved communications methods on their personal devices. These messages were not preserved by JPMorgan,” the SEC said.





Can you imagine the total worth of the investments discussed in those communications?  Big, big bucks.  

Now imagine how compliant the ensuing business was or was not,  with respect to some of the other banking regulations not even addressed in this particular investigation.  In fact these two investigation took place because the SEC found itself hampered in trying to respond to subpoenas from OTHER investigations.  

Yet if you're a waitress and don't declare all your cash tips,  the IRS will come after you for the tax plus a 20% negligence penalty (usually, because proving fraud takes time and money while producing a larger penalty).  We're talking here about taxes on cash tips adding up to anything over 20 bucks a month.  And they do audit waitresses more often because a lot of them get low wages and depend on tips, and their rate of not reporting them is pretty high. 

But the amount of money a waitress handles in a year is infinitesimal compared to what investment bankers may deal with every day.   These guys at Chase got their wrists slapped and their boss of bosses finally sighed and settled for a couple hundred million in fines.    And why not.  200M is less than half a percent of 48.3 billion.


----------



## Yoused

lizkat said:


> But the amount of money a waitress handles in a year is infinitesimal compared to what investment bankers may deal with every day. These guys at Chase got their wrists slapped and their boss of bosses finally sighed and settled for a couple hundred million in fines. And why not. 200M is less than half a percent of 48.3 billion.



Tie general principle is that the heinousness of a crime is measured by tie breadth of its effect. If you rob a liquor store and scare the crap outta the clerk while makinG off with $247, that is a detestable felony tiat merits you being locked up for several decades. If you cunningly manipulate the energy market so that most of a state cannot afford to heat their homes of a winter, that is a minor transgression. It seems to be related to catastrophe simplex: if a person dies in a car accident, you can feel for the family's loss, but if a volcano explodes causing 150,000 nearby residents to perish, your empathy organ gets overwhelmed because there are just too many people to feel for.


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> Tie general principle is that the heinousness of a crime is measured by tie breadth of its effect. If you rob a liquor store and scare the crap outta the clerk while makinG off with $247, that is a detestable felony tiat merits you being locked up for several decades. If you cunningly manipulate the energy market so that most of a state cannot afford to heat their homes of a winter, that is a minor transgression. It seems to be related to catastrophe simplex: if a person dies in a car accident, you can feel for the family's loss, but if a volcano explodes causing 150,000 nearby residents to perish, your empathy organ gets overwhelmed because there are just too many people to feel for.



There is some truth to that. Some people are terrified of crime if they see a story on the news, no matter how rare such an occurrence might be. But they aren’t scared of climate change in the slightest.


----------



## mac_in_tosh

Speaking of stealing: Richard Ojeda Reacts To Trump's Latest Con Job: Trump Force One


----------



## ronntaylor

mac_in_tosh said:


> Speaking of stealing: Richard Ojeda Reacts To Trump's Latest Con Job: Trump Force One



I hope all his supporters send all their money to him instead of viable GQP candidates. Giving the Dems a better shot at keeping the House and Senate for this year's midterms.


----------



## Yoused

Ginni Thomas exchanged texts with WH staffer Mark Meadows urging him to push forward hard with the "election fraud" claims. The press has gotten their hands on 29 of these texts, in some of which she mentions her "best friend" – gee, I wonder who _that_ might be.


----------



## SuperMatt

Remember the story of Pamela Moses, sentenced to 6 years in prison for voting? She maintained that she asked her probation officer if she could vote and was told it was ok. He even signed paperwork allowing her to vote. But a judge claims she “tricked” the probation officer.

It turns out that the Tennessee department of corrections withheld evidence during her trial. So her conviction was thrown out.

Now, the prosecutors have decided they will not seek a new trial. So she is free.

https://www.blackenterprise.com/prosecutor-cites-voting-error-and-dismisses-all-criminal-charges-against-blm-activist-pamela-moses/https://www.blackenterprise.com/prosecutor-cites-voting-error-and-dismisses-all-criminal-charges-against-blm-activist-pamela-moses/

However, Tennessee‘s unjust laws prevent certain former felons from ever voting again, so she cannot vote in Tennessee for the rest of her life.


----------



## Roller

SuperMatt said:


> Remember the story of Pamela Moses, sentenced to 6 years in prison for voting? She maintained that she asked her probation officer if she could vote and was told it was ok. He even signed paperwork allowing her to vote. But a judge claims she “tricked” the probation officer.
> 
> It turns out that the Tennessee department of corrections withheld evidence during her trial. So her conviction was thrown out.
> 
> Now, the prosecutors have decided they will not seek a new trial. So she is free.
> 
> https://www.blackenterprise.com/prosecutor-cites-voting-error-and-dismisses-all-criminal-charges-against-blm-activist-pamela-moses/https://www.blackenterprise.com/prosecutor-cites-voting-error-and-dismisses-all-criminal-charges-against-blm-activist-pamela-moses/
> 
> However, Tennessee‘s unjust laws prevent certain former felons from ever voting again, so she cannot vote in Tennessee for the rest of her life.



I'm glad she at least won't have to spend more time in prison, but what happened to her is still a miscarriage of justice largely reserved for people of color. I wonder what consequences Mark Meadows will face for having registered to vote in three states and never lived in a claimed residence.


----------



## Yoused

SuperMatt said:


> However, Tennessee‘s unjust laws prevent certain former felons from ever voting again



What better way to reintegrate ex-cons back into society than by excluding them?


----------



## GermanSuplex

Roller said:


> I'm glad she at least won't have to spend more time in prison, but what happened to her is still a miscarriage of justice largely reserved for people of color. I wonder what consequences Mark Meadows will face for having registered to vote in three states and never lived in a claimed residence.




We all know what will happen to Meadows; nothing.

And he’ll carry on like nothing happened and continue to fight non-existent voter fraud, because it isn’t a crime when _he_ does it. He had reasons, it’s different. Others are just criminals.

It’s a joke.


----------



## GermanSuplex

Lots of text messages released. For those saying January 6 was just a peaceful rally, there sure were a lot of plots, discussion, texts, lies, conspiracies and even people making shit up in real-time as Jan. 6 unfolded.

Even MTG was begging Meadows to get Trump to stop the carnage. That is, until people like her and Ghomert decided it was just all ANTIFA folks a few hours later.









						CNN Exclusive: Mark Meadows' 2,319 text messages reveal Trump's inner circle communications before and after Jan 6 — CNN Politics
					

CNN has obtained 2,319 text messages that former President Donald Trump's White House chief of staff Mark Meadows sent and received between Election Day 2020 and President Joe Biden's January 20, 2021 inauguration.




					apple.news


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Trump allies breach U.S. voting systems in search of 'evidence'
					

Trump supporters convinced ballot machines were compromised in 2020 are now taking the law into their own hands - and compromising voting systems themselves.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## fooferdoggie

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Trump allies breach U.S. voting systems in search of 'evidence'
> 
> 
> Trump supporters convinced ballot machines were compromised in 2020 are now taking the law into their own hands - and compromising voting systems themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com



man loonies love breaking laws in the name of trump. and my pillow guy it seems.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

fooferdoggie said:


> man loonies love breaking laws in the name of trump. and my pillow guy it seems.




The country is full of totally stable geniuses.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Michigan Dems: "Extensive evidence of fraud and forgery" by GOPers
					

Challenges seeking to disqualify Republicans allege they submitted names of dead people and unwitting non-voters.




					www.salon.com
				




The party of voting integrity hits another one out of the park.  

So, when should we start talking about their child grooming and molestation allegations?   They've got a pretty solid track record of actually doing what they are accusing others of.


----------



## Yoused

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> The country is full of totally stable geniuses.



And too many just running around loose due to a shortage of stables.


----------



## SuperMatt

Vigilante violence against suspected vote stealers? TF Guy in Texas decided a white van with a hispanic driver he saw was full of stolen ballots (with no evidence). So, he paid somebody over $200K who assaulted the person, and found the had no ballots, but plenty of AC equipment. Steven F. Hotze, ladies and gentlemen! 





__





						Loading…
					





					wapo.st
				



(paywall removed)



> On Oct. 19, 2020, Aguirre rammed Lopez-Zuniga’s cargo truck and detained him during his commute to work, according to a police report and prosecutors.
> When police responded to the scene, Aguirre told them that Lopez-Zuniga was part of a massive voter fraud scheme involving 750,000 mail-in ballots and that he was transporting ballots forged by undocumented Hispanic children whose fingerprints couldn’t be traced, police stated.
> Aguirre directed them to Lopez-Zuniga’s mobile home and a shed behind it where he claimed the forged ballots were being stored.
> Inside the mobile home, police found only “a family conducting ordinary business,” according to a Houston police detective who also gave a deposition in the lawsuit against Hotze and his nonprofit.
> “There was kids in the trailer,” said John Varela, the detective. “And one child was on Zoom, you know, going to school. And I think a young lady was in there cooking. And they were just an ordinary family.”
> The shed, Varela said, contained air conditioning equipment.


----------



## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> Vigilante violence against suspected vote stealers? TF Guy in Texas decided a white van with a hispanic driver he saw was full of stolen ballots (with no evidence). So, he paid somebody over $200K who assaulted the person, and found the had no ballots, but plenty of AC equipment. Steven F. Hotze, ladies and gentlemen!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wapo.st
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (paywall removed)




This story actually was reported back then, if I recall correctly, but there was so much chaos that it didn’t get much play.


----------



## SuperMatt

Cmaier said:


> This story actually was reported back then, if I recall correctly, but there was so much chaos that it didn’t get much play.



Yes, I think it resurfaced because of recent developments in the case. Specifically, evidence that (allegedly) shows Hotze lied to police.



> The filing marks the first time prosecutors have publicly revealed evidence to support the charges against Hotze, who was not at the crash scene. His nonprofit Liberty Center for God and Country paid $261,000 for the election fraud probe, a Houston police report stated.
> *The recorded conversation also appears to contradict statements Hotze made earlier this year during a sworn deposition* separately obtained by The Washington Post. The deposition was taken in a lawsuit filed by the air-conditioning repairman, David Lopez-Zuniga, against Hotze and the nonprofit. In the deposition, Hotze insisted that he had no knowledge of the surveillance or investigation of Lopez-Zuniga.
> “I did not know about any investigation about David Lopez at all,” Hotze said during questioning that occurred months before his April 20 criminal indictment. He also said in his deposition that he had not talked to any law enforcement official about the investigation.


----------



## GermanSuplex

More GOP lunatics whining about fraud who… commit voter fraud. Unreal. Of course, they all get light sentences and fines, while one specific lady in another state served prison time after her probation officer told her she could vote. I wonder what the difference is between her and these other legit fraudsters.









						Another GOP voter gets a light sentence after committing fraud
					

A white voter in Arizona cast an illegal ballot. She received a vastly lighter sentence than Crystal Mason. This keeps happening.




					www.msnbc.com
				




Once again, the GOP projecting its lies onto its base. It’s comical how often they get caught doing what they baselessly accuse others of. It’s a tired comment, but increasingly true as time goes on - every GOP accusation is a confession.


----------



## SuperMatt

GermanSuplex said:


> More GOP lunatics whining about fraud who… commit voter fraud. Unreal. Of course, they all get light sentences and fines, while one specific lady in another state served prison time after her probation officer told her she could vote. I wonder what the difference is between her and these other legit fraudsters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another GOP voter gets a light sentence after committing fraud
> 
> 
> A white voter in Arizona cast an illegal ballot. She received a vastly lighter sentence than Crystal Mason. This keeps happening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msnbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, the GOP projecting its lies onto its base. It’s comical how often they get caught doing what they baselessly accuse others of. It’s a tired comment, but increasingly true as time goes on - every GOP accusation is a confession.



Some of the GOP fraudsters like Mark Meadows were born without a conscience and figured they’d do whatever they want and get away with it due to political connections.

But some of these folks seem to have bought the “illegals are coming from Mexico and casting millions of votes” lying from Trump. They see their action as some kind of “if they’re cheating, I need to cheat to even it out.” Combine that with their life experience that they will also be able to get away with it, and there’s the excuse they need to cheat. It definitely comes back to Trump and his “stop the steal” rhetoric.


----------



## Yoused

SuperMatt said:


> Some of the GOP fraudsters like Mark Meadows were born without a conscience and figured they’d do whatever they want and get away with it due to political connections.




Our socioeconomic system has been built to reward sociopathy handsomely. Hell, it may be a defect of human social behavior patterns that sociopaths get out in front. It may even go deeper than that (an aspect of _survival of the fittest_). It might be possible to establish a culture that has the ability to rein in our problem children, but we are about as far from working toward that as we are from genuinely addressing climate destruction (and probably cannot effectively accomplish the latter without getting to the former as well).


----------



## JayMysteri0

But, why would they do this?
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1525252302264750080/


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

There's some new "documentary" supposedly exposing the mass voter fraud.  From what I heard it says there was something like 50,000 voter mules stuffing fake ballots in boxes.  As evidence it shows camera footage of people putting ballets in boxes which could be totally normal....but is it?!?!?  I'm just asking questions!  One man was seen putting 5 ballots in a box.   The man actually was investigated but it was determined he was delivering ballots for family members which was completely legal.  Nothing I said in the previous sentence was included in the documentary.  It also says nothing about the fact that ballots have to get validated.  You can't just make a bunch of copies at Kinkos, fill them out with crayons and they'll count simply because they made it into the box.    

I don't remember what it's called but I can try to find out if anybody is interested.  I think viewing this grift cost $30.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> There's some new "documentary" supposedly exposing the mass voter fraud.  From what I heard it says there was something like 50,000 voter mules stuffing fake ballots in boxes.  As evidence it shows camera footage of people putting ballets in boxes which could be totally normal....but is it?!?!?  I'm just asking questions!  One man was seen putting 5 ballots in a box.   The man actually was investigated but it was determined he was delivering ballots for family members which was completely legal.  Nothing I said in the previous sentence was included in the documentary.  It also says nothing about the fact that ballots have to get validated.  You can't just make a bunch of copies at Kinkos, fill them out with crayons and they'll count simply because they made it into the box.
> 
> I don't remember what it's called but I can try to find out if anybody is interested.  I think viewing this grift cost $30.





> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/2000-mules-offers-least-convincing-election-fraud-theory-yet/




The supporters reaching deep into the bag with conspiracies, to support the film's conspiracies


> Here's Why '2000 Mules' Is Getting Aggressively Fact Checked
> 
> 
> A shocking new film suggests the 2020 presidential election was decided not by votes but via 'mules' who changed the course of history. And it's getting a thorough fact checking as you read this. Dinesh D'Souza's '2000 Mules' illustrates how geotracking technology impacted several swing states...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hollywoodintoto.com




The problem though is that the likes of Fox & Co have been legally smacked down for all the lying, so even they won't promote this bag of shit.


> D'Souza targets Fox News, says network banning mention of '2000 Mules'
> 
> 
> The conservative political commentator and filmmaker is now going after Fox News for its coverage of "2000 Mules."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com


----------



## Yoused

Hoaxman claims that he _tried to stop the January 6 attack_ – by giving a speech beforehand to rile up the rabble.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> But, why would they do this?
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1525252302264750080/



With all the “3 strikes” laws these punks put on the books for people smoking pot, perhaps we can have some “3 strikes” laws for passing blatantly unconstitutional legislation?


----------



## Yoused

Michigan election chief: Trump suggested I be arrested for treason and executed
					

Jocelyn Benson said she was told that the former president made the remark in a White House meeting. A Trump spokesman accused Benson of lying.




					www.nbcnews.com
				




Making threats is illegal. The ShitGibbon in a private citizen. He should not be above the law on this (not even as the sitting President at the time).


----------



## Citysnaps

Interesting. Somehow I missed that Larry Ellison was a player in contesting the election.  



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/20/larry-ellison-oracle-trump-election-challenges/


----------



## GermanSuplex

They just released a photo of Clarence and Ginni Thomas visiting the January 6 rally…



Spoiler: Exclusive Photo


----------



## Citysnaps

Speaking of Ginni Thomas. Her emails!



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/05/20/ginni-thomas-arizona-election-emails/


----------



## GermanSuplex

Was shocked when I read this line in a Fox News article…

_Trump, who had unsuccessfully urged the governor and other top Republican officials in the state to overturn the results, returned to Georgia last autumn and again in late March to campaign against Kemp._






						On eve of Georgia primary, Trump-targeted Gov. Brian Kemp says Republicans ‘already uniting’ behind him | Fox News
					

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp and Republican challenger former Sen. David Perdue speak with Fox News on eve of gubernatorial primary




					www.foxnews.com
				




Well, you think that would still be much larger news outside of the leftist circles. But even Kemp can’t really come out swinging. He’s ahead in the polls, but Stacy Abrams will not be kind to him, and it should be interesting to see what role Trump plays. He does not like Kemp. And where does election fraud fit into all of this? And why are there no widespread cries of fraud in the primaries this year, even though the elections are being conducted virtually the same way?


----------



## Herdfan

GermanSuplex said:


> but Stacy Abrams will not be kind to him




And she just made a huge rookie mistake similar to Hillary's Deplorable's comment.


----------



## Renzatic

Herdfan said:


> And she just made a huge rookie mistake similar to Hillary's Deplorable's comment.




What'd she do?


----------



## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> What'd she do?



She dared to speak



> Stacey Abrams won't mince words about Georgia's problems — and the GOP is furious
> 
> 
> Abrams, Democrats' presumptive nominee for Georgia governor, was deeply critical of the GOP-led state. And she's completely right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.msnbc.com





> Stacey Abrams is right: Georgia's Republican governor, Brian Kemp, has helped turn his state into one of the worst places to live in the country.
> 
> Abrams, the Democrats’ presumptive nominee to face off against Kemp for the governorship this fall, made her declaration during a fundraiser in Georgia on Saturday. And although she predicted her words would be taken out of context and used against her, she was quite clear about the things Kemp has done to make her state a demonstrably bad place to call home.
> 
> 
> “I am tired of hearing about how we’re the best state in the country to do business when we are the worst state in the country to live,” Abrams said, according to audio published by The Gwinnett Daily Post.
> 
> “Let me contextualize,” she added. “When you’re No. 48 for mental health, when we’re No. 1 for maternal mortality, when you have an incarceration rate that is on the rise and wages are on the decline, then you are not the No. 1 place to live.”
> 
> She went on to say: “Georgia is capable of greatness, but we need greatness to be in our governor’s office. We need someone who actually believes in bringing all of us in there together.”
> 
> It didn’t take long for Republicans, including Kemp, to do just as Abrams predicted and condemn her remarks:




That's what passes for discourse nowadays.  Just throw a comment out there, no context, no explanation.  Which means it's open ended & can be reconstructed anyway a person likes if the response they get isn't favorable.  It's also wonderful if you don't want to actually be factual, just throw crap out there & runaway.  Occasionally passed off as supposed engagement.  Too often, if context isn't provided, it's for good reason.  On the other side is taking comments laid out, and deliberately & directly going to misconstruing them to feign some faux outrage.

We saw it play out with Hilary, and all the ginned up outrage.  Then when 1/6 happened, pretend like her comments were never uttered.


----------



## shadow puppet

JayMysteri0 said:


> She dared to speak



Go Stacey, GO.


----------



## SuperMatt

Renzatic said:


> What'd she do?



You can’t read minds over the internet?


----------



## Herdfan

JayMysteri0 said:


> She dared to speak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what passes for discourse nowadays.  Just throw a comment out there, no context, no explanation.  Which means it's open ended & can be reconstructed anyway a person likes if the response they get isn't favorable.  It's also wonderful if you don't want to actually be factual, just throw crap out there & runaway.  Occasionally passed off as supposed engagement.  Too often, if context isn't provided, it's for good reason.  On the other side is taking comments laid out, and deliberately & directly going to misconstruing them to feign some faux outrage.
> 
> We saw it play out with Hilary, and all the ginned up outrage.  Then when 1/6 happened, pretend like her comments were never uttered.




I can't say you're wrong.  She did provide context, but she still should have known better.

That line will be used in commercials all over the place leading up to election day.   She had little to gain and a lot to lose with that comment.  And she has tried to walk it back a bit so either she or someone in her campaign knows it was a mistake.


----------



## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> You can’t read minds over the internet?




Nor in 5 second soundbites in campaign commercials.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Herdfan said:


> I can't say you're wrong.  She did provide context, but she still should have known better.
> 
> That line will be used in commercials all over the place leading up to election day.   She had little to gain and a lot to lose with that comment.  And she has tried to walk it back a bit so either she or someone in her campaign knows it was a mistake.




Democrats are horrible with providing out of context comments and labeling.  I usually don't actively search out news and mostly just use Flipboard which aggregates news.  Fox is the only service I have blocked on it, and that out of context statement was a headline all over the place.

I don't know if she is considered progressive, but the establishment, both politicians and media, would rather help Trump burn the country to the ground than let a progressive wave take over.  It doesn't take much to figure out why.  Most of these blowhards in their class will do perfectly fine under a rightwing authoritarian government.  They'd probably even be allowed to continue their charade to continue the illusion of democracy.   They'll still get to collect their paychecks for getting nothing done.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Herdfan said:


> I can't say you're wrong.  She did provide context, but she still should have known better.
> 
> That line will be used in commercials all over the place leading up to election day.   She had little to gain and a lot to lose with that comment.  And she has tried to walk it back a bit so either she or someone in her campaign knows it was a mistake.



No.  There is no better.  That’s my point. 

Abrams could have said, “I am used to working with republicans to get things done.”  And someone would have grabbed a lemon with one, and with the other hand reached into their panties to give themselves the mother of all emotional wedgies.  Crying she said “republicans used get things done.”

The horror.

That’s why context upfront at the time is important.  It highlights the dishonesty in the conversation of others.  What’s even worse is that it is so commonplace now, she accurately predicted the faux outrage.

Nowadays for some political discourse is about making a sound bite from something someone said.  Then pretending to be upset by the sound bite and not what was actually said.

Which again is why context provided at the time of a comment is so important.  So you can call someone on their B.S.


----------



## GermanSuplex

Lol @ GOP outrage over Abrams comments about Georgia. Trump says everyday "Our country is in the worst shape its ever been in", "Our leaders are weak", etc.


----------



## JayMysteri0

A quick reminder that when a certain party makes accusations, it's more likely a confession of sorts.








> Michigan election bureau says 2 leading Republican candidates for governor filed fraudulent signatures, disqualifying them
> 
> 
> Michigan's elections bureau says five Republican candidates for governor, including two leading contenders, failed to file enough valid nominating signatures and shouldn't qualify for the August primary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.pbs.org





> LANSING, Mich. — Michigan’s elections bureau said late Monday that five Republican candidates for governor, including two leading contenders, failed to file enough valid nominating signatures and should not qualify for the August primary.
> 
> The stunning recommendations immediately transformed the race in the battleground state and dealt a major blow to former Detroit Police Chief James Craig, who has led in primary polling despite campaign problems, and businessman Perry Johnson, who has spent millions of his own money to run. Democrats had challenged their petitions, alleging mass forgery and other issues. Another GOP candidate, Tudor Dixon, had also contested Craig’s voter signatures as fake.





> The bipartisan, four-member Board of State Canvassers will meet Thursday to consider the elections bureau’s findings of fraud across five gubernatorial campaigns. The Republican candidates, who are vying to face Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in November, could end up going to court if they do not make the ballot.
> 
> Bureau staff also determined that three other lesser-known GOP candidates — Donna Brandenburg, Michael Brown and Michael Markey — did not turn in enough valid signatures.
> 
> If the canvassers agree with the recommendations, the 10-person field of political newcomers would be cut in half to five. Those qualifying for the ballot would be Dixon, a former conservative TV news host who netted the DeVos family endorsement earlier Monday; chiropractor and grassroots activist Garrett Soldano; wealthy self-funding businessman Kevin Rinke; real estate broker and anti-coronavirus lockdown activist Ryan Kelley; and pastor Ralph Rebandt.


----------



## SuperMatt

We are ruled by a minority. Can we possibly change that? This author posits that our constitution is set up to keep it that way.









						This is What Happens When You Live Under Minority Rule
					

And this continued inaction is how a government loses its legitimacy




					annehelen.substack.com
				






> …the senate, the electoral college, the Supreme Court and its lifetime appointees — functioning _as intended_. The dilution of votes in cities _is the point_, and so long as the minority remains in power, it will continue to make laws (and judgments) that protect against its erosion. Voter registration campaigns are not enough. Reciprocal gerrymandering strategies, not enough. If, in a state like Idaho, you go through the initiative process to try and pass legislation (like Medicaid expansion) that’s actually popular, then the legislation will rewrite the laws to prevent it from ever happening again.


----------



## SuperMatt

I guess the Arizona cyber ninjas ”fraudit” didn’t debase the Arizona Republicans enough. They are STILL pushing the stolen election narrative?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1531765336998965249/


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> A quick reminder that when a certain party makes accusations, it's more likely a confession of sorts.



If HALF of your party’s candidates used fraud even to get onto the ballot, don’t you think it’s time to stop denying that you have a problem? Incredible story…..


----------



## JayMysteri0

I'm still not understanding how it's decided to act on anything or anyone dealing with the 1/6 committee, so this is a surprise.



> Former Trump aide Peter Navarro indicted for contempt of Congress in defying Jan. 6 Capitol probe subpoena
> 
> 
> Peter Navarro, who served as a trade advisor to former President Donald Trump, refused to testify to the House committee investigating the Capitol riot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com





> Former Trump White House advisor Peter Navarro was arrested on a federal indictment charging him with two counts of contempt of Congress over his refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, riot at the U.S. Capitol.
> 
> Navarro, 72, had refused to appear to testify on March 2 in response to the subpoena and also refused to produce by Feb. 23 documents sought by that same subpoena, according to the indictment in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C.
> 
> The House of Representatives in April voted to ask the U.S. Justice Department to criminally prosecute Navarro and another Trump aide, Dan Scavino, for failing to comply with their subpoenas.
> 
> Navarro, who served as a trade advisor to former President Donald Trump, was arrested and in custody Friday morning, awaiting his first appearance later in the day in Washington court.
> 
> If convicted of both contempt counts, Navarro on each count faces a minimum possible sentence of 30 days in jail, and a maximum of one year, along with a fine of as much as $100,000.
> 
> The indictment was issued Thursday by a grand jury in Washington, and unsealed Friday following his arrest, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia.


----------



## GermanSuplex

Rep. Gohmert… they are NOT taking this out of context, watch for yourself. This isn’t “fake news”. This is what he said. These people literally think the laws don’t apply to them. Between this and Navarro acting stunned that police would arrest him the same way they would any other wanted criminal, it’s really telling how they view themselves vs. everyone who disagrees with them.

_“It actually puts an exclamation point on the fact that we have a two-tiered justice system. If you’re a Republican, you can’t even lie to Congress or lie to an FBI agent or they’re coming after you. They’re gonna bury you. They’re gonna put you in the D.C. jail and terrorize and torture you and not live up to the Constitution there,” Gohmert responded._









						Gohmert: ‘If you’re a Republican, you can’t even lie to Congress or lie to an FBI agent or they’re coming after you’
					

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) railed against the indictment of former Trump White House adviser Peter Navarro while saying in an interview on Friday that “if you’re a Republican, you can&#8217…




					thehill.com


----------



## Yoused

That statement can be treated as a pure lie. The "… _if you're a Republican_ …" part is what makes it a lie, because it clearly states that non-Republicans _can_ lie to Congress/FBI. It does not even qualify as a lie by implication, it is absolutely wrong.


----------



## JayMysteri0

To piggyback off the laughable sudden realization of some, that there is a ( _I want to digress for a moment and point out how that sounds perfectly on point for someone who's been in office / congress way too F'N long.  Just flat out telling on themselves. _) "two-tiered justice system".  Last night I was laughing my ass off at the video of THIS F'N Guy losing his shit after being arrested.  Arrested NOT for voluntarily confessing to plotting a coup on LIVE TV to overthrow the will of the people and keep a loser in office.  No, arrested for NOT heeding a lawful subpoena to TALK to congress about the very thing he voluntarily confessed to on LIVE TV.  All the while supposedly "considering" answering ANOTHER subpoena from a grand jury.  

That is some truly epic privilege big flaming scrotum energy to be upset at the thought YOU don't have to answer subpoenas like anyone else, because...

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1532828717386330112/

Seriously, who the F' learns about who was in the cell previous to them?  No one cares that John Hinckley was kept in the same cell as you were.


----------



## Roller

Here's a blast from the past from old Pete:









						Peter Navarro remarks at 1996 DNC Convention
					

Chicago




					www.c-span.org


----------



## Edd

JayMysteri0 said:


> To piggyback off the laughable sudden realization of some, that there is a ( _I want to digress for a moment and point out how that sounds perfectly on point for someone who's been in office / congress way too F'N long.  Just flat out telling on themselves. _) "two-tiered justice system".  Last night I was laughing my ass off at the video of THIS F'N Guy losing his shit after being arrested.  Arrested NOT for voluntarily confessing to plotting a coup on LIVE TV to overthrow the will of the people and keep a loser in office.  No, arrested for NOT heeding a lawful subpoena to TALK to congress about the very thing he voluntarily confessed to on LIVE TV.  All the while supposedly "considering" answering ANOTHER subpoena from a grand jury.
> 
> That is some truly epic privilege big flaming scrotum energy to be upset at the thought YOU don't have to answer subpoenas like anyone else, because...
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1532828717386330112/
> 
> Seriously, who the F' learns about who was in the cell previous to them?  No one cares that John Hinckley was kept in the same cell as you were.



Mmmmm, any Trump ally being shocked at getting arrested gives me the feels. Aaahhhhh, it's like I'm at a spa.  Let me have this.


----------



## GermanSuplex

Roller said:


> Here's a blast from the past from old Pete:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Navarro remarks at 1996 DNC Convention
> 
> 
> Chicago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.c-span.org




Surely Trump would deem any Clinton-backer automatically guilty based on that alone.


----------



## SuperMatt

Washington, D.C. is considering making it possible to vote by phone. I think we are at a point where we can make this secure, so why not? I have to think voter turnout would go way up if people could all vote by phone. The more participation, the more robust the democracy I think.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1533116229547966464/


----------



## JayMysteri0

When you're determined to find voting issues, and the issue is they find you
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1534310232117108736/


----------



## JayMysteri0

In case anyone here doesn't understand the term "retcon" when I use it, here is a prime example.



> ret·con
> /ˈretkän/
> 
> _noun_
> 
> 
> (in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency.
> "we're given a retcon for Wilf's absence from Donna's wedding in ‘The Runaway Bride’: he had Spanish Flu"




https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1534557855126376451/

Jan 6th was a "dust up".  The George Floyd protests had buildings get burned down, but nothing burned down at the capitol.  So THAT was MORE horrible than the 6th.  You have to ask yourself if one is willingly being obtuse & NOT pointing out the officers attacked and the deaths.  The crowd that loved to back the blue until 1/6, sure love protecting property more than lives.  That should tell you something.  Especially from someone that is supposed to be coaching people.

Sit your tired ass down.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> In case anyone here doesn't understand the term "retcon" when I use it, here is a prime example.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1534557855126376451/
> 
> Jan 6th was a "dust up".  The George Floyd protests had buildings get burned down, but the nothing burned down at the capitol.  So THAT was MORE horrible.  You have to ask yourself if one is willingly being obtuse & NOT pointing out the officers attacked and the deaths.  The crowd that loved to back the blue until 1/6, sure love protecting property more than lives.  That should tell you something.  Especially from someone that is supposed to be coaching people.
> 
> Sit your tired ass down.



I had the “opportunity” to meet Jay Gruden when he was coach of the Washington Team… It was earlier in the same day when Kaepernick took a knee during the season opener. Kaepernick had already done it in a preseason game the week prior. Gruden was very much part of the anti-Kaepernick crowd and made sure to make that point, bringing it up very conspicuously even in a conversation with a stranger (me).

So yeah, that team is full of people with those sorts of opinions. (excluding most players of course)


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

JayMysteri0 said:


> In case anyone here doesn't understand the term "retcon" when I use it, here is a prime example.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1534557855126376451/
> 
> Jan 6th was a "dust up".  The George Floyd protests had buildings get burned down, but nothing burned down at the capitol.  So THAT was MORE horrible than the 6th.  You have to ask yourself if one is willingly being obtuse & NOT pointing out the officers attacked and the deaths.  The crowd that loved to back the blue until 1/6, sure love protecting property more than lives.  That should tell you something.  Especially from someone that is supposed to be coaching people.
> 
> Sit your tired ass down.





To be fair, there are probably people who feel the local Target store does more to improve their life than Congress and they aren't entirely wrong in some cases.


----------



## Yoused

Looks like he was/is getting ready to try to steal another election









						Michigan GOP gubernatorial candidate Ryan Kelley charged for participation in Jan. 6 Capitol riot
					

Ryan Kelley, a Republican candidate in the Michigan gubernatorial primary, was arrested at his home for being involved in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot




					abcnews.go.com


----------



## JayMysteri0

One can only imagine what some are going thru at this time.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1535292815453786112/

Imagine what will happen if law enforcement starts a "stop & frisk" program, just because you're walking around with a tiki torch yelling about blood & soil, and / or dressed in military cosplay for absolutely no reason with zip ties?  The horror!  Cops may even bang your head as they put you in the police car, because some guy suggested it.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1535298637584015366/


----------



## JayMysteri0

Perhaps a reason why there's no real focus on the wife a supreme court judge, despite all the revelations of late

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1535391999737712640/


----------



## JayMysteri0

I honestly can't decide if this is sad or hilarious...

For...





https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1535633032547389441/


Spoiler: True dat Spoiler!



https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1535657622032068608/


----------



## JayMysteri0

Rudy.  Rudy.  Rudy.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1535609061936340992/


----------



## fooferdoggie

JayMysteri0 said:


> Rudy.  Rudy.  Rudy.
> 
> https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1535609061936340992/



it could not happen to a nicer melter/shit head.


----------



## Edd

fooferdoggie said:


> it could not happen to a nicer melter/shit head.



He truly threw his life away. Quite something to watch; his reputation destroyed, millions who respected him now don’t. For what? Just money? Did he not have enough?


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1537027518468956167/


----------



## JayMysteri0

This is some amazing level of fuckery, that it probably deserves it's own thread ( I'm sure someone will ), but...

So all the warnings how when repubs stack voting commissions, they would basically decide if they like the results.  The will of voters be damned.

Well, New Mexico has decided to show us what happens



> Republican commission refuses to certify New Mexico primary vote
> 
> 
> GOP claims without evidence Dominion voting machines cannot be trusted, delaying results in rural Otero county
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com





> New Mexico’s secretary of state on Tuesday asked the state supreme court to order the Republican-led commission of rural Otero county to certify primary election results after it refused to do so over distrust of Dominion vote-tallying machines.
> 
> The request by Maggie Toulouse Oliver, a Democrat, came a day after the three-member Otero county commission, in its role as a county canvassing board, voted unanimously against certifying the results of the 7 June primary without raising specific concerns about discrepancies.
> 
> The commission’s members include the Cowboys for Trump co-founder Couy Griffin, who subscribes to unsubstantiated claims that former president Donald Trump won the 2020 election. Griffin was convicted of illegally entering restricted US Capitol grounds – though not the building – amid the riots on 6 January 2021, and is scheduled for sentencing later this month.
> 
> He acknowledged that the standoff over this primary could delay the outcome of local election races.




Important part here, the justification used for NOT certifying the results.



> “I have huge concerns with these voting machines,” the Otero county commissioner, Vickie Marquardt, said on Monday. “When I certify stuff that I don’t know is right, I feel like I’m being dishonest because in my heart I don’t know if it is right.”
> 
> The commission’s vote is the latest example of how conspiracy theories and misinformation are affecting the integrity of local elections across the US. Trump has continued to describe the 2020 election as “rigged” or “stolen”, despite a coalition of top government and industry officials calling it the “most secure in American history”.
> 
> Dominion’s systems also have been unjustifiably attacked since the 2020 election by people who embraced the false belief that the election was stolen from Trump. The company has filed defamation lawsuits in response.
> 
> New Mexico’s Dominion machines have been disparaged repeatedly by David and Erin Clements of Las Cruces in their review of the 2020 election in Otero county and voter registration rolls at the request of the commission. The Clements are traveling advocates for “forensic” reviews of the 2020 election and offer their services as election experts and auditors to local governments. Election officials including county clerk Robyn Holmes say the Clements are not certified auditors nor experts in election protocols.
> 
> The couple has highlighted problems during sporadic, hours-long presentations to the commission this year. Local election officials dispute many of the findings as mistaken or unfounded.




Let me highlight the important part from the "F your feelings" crowd.



> “I have huge concerns with these voting machines,” the Otero county commissioner, Vickie Marquardt, said on Monday. “When I certify stuff that I don’t know is right, I feel like I’m being dishonest *because in my heart I don’t know if it is right*.”




Yup, providing absolutely NO proof whatsoever, instead... just going with her heart.

She obviously has a big heart, because it's evidently more important than all of those who actually voted!

So the Sec of State sued to get them to certify, and very quickly the State Supreme Court agreed.  The board has to certify.  The lady who is going with her heart, laughed at that, scoffing "what are they going to do put in me in jail?"  Another guy just isn't going to comply.



> New Mexico Supreme Court issues writ of mandamus against Otero County Commission
> 
> 
> SANTA FE, N.M. — The New Mexico Supreme Court issued a writ of mandamus Wednesday against the Otero County Commission for certification of 2022 primary election returns. The Court granted a petition by Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver for the writ of mandamus. The Otero County...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kob.com




So the group has until Friday to comply.

Problem?  They guy who won't comply, won't be around.



> Couy Griffin, who represents District 3 on the commission, indicated he will not comply.
> 
> “I guess if I had a position, it is just that I am going to hold my ground on this deal,” said Griffin.
> 
> This Friday, the Cowboys for Trump founder is expected to be sentenced on a federal charge related to the Jan. 6, attack on the U.S. Capitol. He maintains that in holding his ground, he is reflecting his constituents in the heavily conservative rural county.
> 
> “The people of my county have concerns, as well as I do, and all we are doing is just trying to investigate those concerns,” Griffin said.




Yes.



> New Mexico Man Found Guilty of Charge Related to Capitol Breach
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON – A New Mexico man was found guilty today of a misdemeanor charge for his actions during the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. That breach disrupted a joint session of the U.S. Congress that was in the process of ascertaining and counting the electoral votes related to the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.justice.gov




The guy's possible excuse for not complying with the State Supreme Court to certify a primary that won't based on absolutely NOTHING, will be HE'S BEING SENTENCED FOR Jan 6TH!

What the bloody fuck is going on with republicans and the idiots who vote them in?!!!


----------



## Alli

So goes the country.


----------



## Yoused

We have spent a fair amount of time in Otero county. It is a dark place that lives under the shadow of the radioactive fallout from the Trinity atomic bomb test in 1945. Alamogordo looks like a small city that aspires to be worn out (there used to be a place you could see from the highway with a big red rectangle with a diagonal white stripe across – a _divers' shop in the middle of the desert basin, a hundred miles from the nearest lake). We encountered some crazy people there. I am not surprised at this._


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1537767766127616000/


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1538235849816518656/


----------



## JayMysteri0

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1538236300838436865/

+






=


----------



## SuperMatt

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1538348371102015488/

So to be a Republican in Texas, you must sign onto this blatant lie.

Can’t they all just sell used cars or miracle cures or something? Why not let some adults govern the country?

More details about their insane party platform here:









						Texas Republican Convention calls Biden win illegitimate and rebukes Cornyn over gun talks
					

Some 5,100 delegates and alternates voted on a party platform that also calls for ending the federal income tax, requiring education about fetal gestation and limiting the Legislature’s right to regulate guns.




					www.texastribune.org


----------



## Yoused

Dude who defines crazy is being persecuted by wallyworld, because they are unstocking his fluffy product. He claims that 95% of Americans support him – not long ago, he told us he had enough evidence to put 300,000,000 Americans behind bars, so he must be counting 95% of the remainder, which would mostly be children who do not know any better.


----------



## SuperMatt

The “Stop the Steal” Tour is a real thing. And it’s dangerous.









						Election deniers have taken their fraud theories on tour — to nearly every state — NPR
					

Even as the Jan. 6 hearings play out, election misinformation keeps spreading. NPR tracked four leaders preaching false information about election fraud at hundreds of grassroots events nationwide.




					apple.news
				






> Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, a Democrat, says they're using election fraud as a vehicle to advance themselves.
> 
> 
> "There's no shortage of ability to access the truth about our election system, yet there seems to be a proliferation of people willing to lie about it," Benson said. "I think it's logical to conclude that they know better. And that they're knowingly spreading misinformation ... to win elections, to raise money, to gain attention and celebrity."
> 
> 
> Benson says her office has seen a direct correlation between election denier events in Michigan and a rise in harassment toward voting officials.
> 
> 
> "Whenever there is an appearance in which the former president or Lindell or others come out attacking our system we know to expect an uptick in threats and add additional security as a result," she said.
> 
> 
> But she, and the thousands of other Americans in charge of elections nationwide, have yet to figure out a truly effective way to fight back and break through to the two-thirds of Republican voters who believe voter fraud helped Joe Biden win the 2020 election.
> 
> 
> That's because election denialism has grown from a political movement into something almost religious, said Koppes, the Republican county clerk in Colorado.


----------



## Yoused

Russian State TV host comments that Russia has not yet decided whether to reinstall Individual-ONE into the WH in a future election.









						Russia State TV Considering Reinstalling Trump as President
					

A Russian state TV host said Russia will "have to think whether to reinstall him again as the American president" and that the country hasn't "decided yet."




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Yoused said:


> Russian State TV host comments that Russia has not yet decided whether to reinstall Individual-ONE into the WH in a future election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia State TV Considering Reinstalling Trump as President
> 
> 
> A Russian state TV host said Russia will "have to think whether to reinstall him again as the American president" and that the country hasn't "decided yet."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com




They should probably pull a Trump and endorse him right up to the point that he is clearly going to lose and then pull the endorsement.  Then claim pulling the endorsement is the real reason he lost.


----------



## fooferdoggie

Yoused said:


> Russian State TV host comments that Russia has not yet decided whether to reinstall Individual-ONE into the WH in a future election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia State TV Considering Reinstalling Trump as President
> 
> 
> A Russian state TV host said Russia will "have to think whether to reinstall him again as the American president" and that the country hasn't "decided yet."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newsweek.com



so they want a puppet good to know.


----------



## Roller

fooferdoggie said:


> so they want a puppet good to know.



"No puppet. No puppet. You're the puppet!" - TFG to Hillary Clinton.


----------



## fooferdoggie

Family of five sentenced for storming the US Capitol on January 6​








						Family of five sentenced for storming the US Capitol on January 6 | CNN Politics
					

A Texas family of five was sentenced together on Wednesday for storming the Capitol on January 6, with the two parents getting jail time and three adult children given probation and some home confinement.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## Alli

fooferdoggie said:


> Family of five sentenced for storming the US Capitol on January 6​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Family of five sentenced for storming the US Capitol on January 6 | CNN Politics
> 
> 
> A Texas family of five was sentenced together on Wednesday for storming the Capitol on January 6, with the two parents getting jail time and three adult children given probation and some home confinement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com



The sentencing was not harsh enough, IMNSVHO.


----------



## lizkat

Alli said:


> The sentencing was not harsh enough, IMNSVHO.




Yeah.  I mean if you have to enter the Capitol through a broken f'g window...  you are not a tourist.

Also I'm still waiting for SOMEONE in the FauxSnooze food chain to land in the slam over all the misinformation and propagation of flat out lies.  Surely one of that crew has already landed in the grey area of protected speech, and that's actually fairly difficult to do, even if they may have made a practice of sailing pretty close to the wind. Fox tactics also include a considered omission of verifiable and significant news, which of course is not against the law.

 From that cited CNN piece:

In explaining his reason for traveling to DC, Thomas Munn told the judge he had never been political before but “*I just kept watching what was happening on the news, and I felt we should speak out.”*​
Did this dude not see news of all 50 states certifying their vote counts, and about the 60-odd court cases ruling against Trump's assertions of fraud in the voting process or in compilation of results?

No?    What  "news" channel was he watching?

I keep wondering if some of the insurrectionists who fetched up in court later on aren't ticked off now if realizing that Fox falsely shaped their view of the elections of 2020.   I suppose that could be a rarity.  I hope they're loud about it.


----------



## ronntaylor

fooferdoggie said:


> Family of five sentenced for storming the US Capitol on January 6​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Family of five sentenced for storming the US Capitol on January 6 | CNN Politics
> 
> 
> A Texas family of five was sentenced together on Wednesday for storming the Capitol on January 6, with the two parents getting jail time and three adult children given probation and some home confinement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com



Talk about white privilege. The sentences are jokes. They all should have been given significant time given their crimes and lack of remorse.


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## Yoused

lizkat said:


> the grey area




You have been living too close to Canada for too long.


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## lizkat

Yoused said:


> You have been living too close to Canada for too long.




Maybe.  I know I'm living in an era when "all the free speech money can buy" is roundly abused.   But I was in fact speaking of the legal grey area developed over years of 1st Amendment cases in the high court.   There are situations short of falsely yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater where speech can be considered incitement of violence and so not protected.  The instances tested and found lacking of protection so far are fairly narrow and Fox counsel is surely aware of them.   Love to be a fly on the wall though in any discussions those guys have had with the likes of Hannity or Carlson.


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## GermanSuplex

Stewart Rhodes - Guilty of seditious conspiracy. Huge win for the DoJ and fans of free and fair elections.









						Oath Keepers founder found guilty of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 case — NBC News
					

The trial was a major test for the Justice Department's sprawling investigation into the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.




					apple.news


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## Huntn

GermanSuplex said:


> Stewart Rhodes - Guilty of seditious conspiracy. Huge win for the DoJ and fans of free and fair elections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oath Keepers founder found guilty of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 case — NBC News
> 
> 
> The trial was a major test for the Justice Department's sprawling investigation into the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apple.news



Too bad they did not nab the Ring Leader...I won’t hold my breath.


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## Pumbaa

Huntn said:


> Too bad they did not nab the Ring Leader...I won’t hold my breath.



Wise decision given the pace they’re moving at. But they _are _moving, and moving upwards!


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## Yoused

A Republiopath, of course.









						Records Show Republican Georgia Congressman Voted Illegally Three Times In 2022
					

It's always the Republicans.




					secondnexus.com
				




It does not say that it was three times in the same election, it was probably the pimary, the general and the runoff.


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## GermanSuplex

Yoused said:


> A Republiopath, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Records Show Republican Georgia Congressman Voted Illegally Three Times In 2022
> 
> 
> It's always the Republicans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> secondnexus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does not say that it was three times in the same election, it was probably the pimary, the general and the runoff.




No no… they’re not talking about that kind of illegal voting. He’s different, he has reasons. It’s those other people we need to worry about.


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