# MacBook Pro with the M1 processor



## Eric

I thought this was worthy of its own thread, thanks to @SuperMatt and @DT for bringing this to my attention. I thought the only version this came in was the MacBook Air but see it's now coming out in the MacBook Pro, so I changed my order from the Intel model to this one instead since it's about the same price with the M1 chip.

There aren't many reviews since it's just being released by I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one, the 8 core processor sounds like a game changer. I'll report back on how it handles all of my intensive Adobe Photoshop/Lightroom processing. I'm pumped.


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## DT

Full specs you SOB ...


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## DT

So while we're waiting ...

The MBP should give you a good bit of additional processor/performance headroom because of the chassis/active cooling (aka, fans), plus the improved speakers, display, the groovy Touchbar (if you're into it ...), and another 3 hours of battery over the MBA (for a stunning 20 hours).

The M1 GPU is incredibly stout (way more performance vs. any Intel based 13" MBP), and as products start utilizing the Neural Engine, you're going to see insane performance (given the price/TDP).


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## Apple fanboy

I have a 13" CTO Intel MacBook Pro on order at work. However it might be cancelled and I'll have the M1 one. I'll find out what the supplier is doing tomorrow.
I'm easy either way tbh. Its not my £££


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## Eric

DT said:


> Full specs you SOB ...



Oh yeah, sorry.



Costco baby. Oh and I got Apple Care.


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## Apple fanboy

ericgtr12 said:


> Oh yeah, sorry.
> 
> View attachment 1415
> 
> Cosco baby. Oh and I got Apple Care.



is 8GB enough RAM? I assume your photos are on an external?


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## ronntaylor

We got a couple of MacBook Airs (16GB RAM & 256 SSD). My current machine is a dying 2014 MBA, his is a 2019 unit that he's using a decent trade-in value to offset our total costs. Since we waited till the day after the announcement, we have to wait till the end of the month, early next month for delivery.

I'm already stressing out about transferring data. No transfer issues with our new phones, but my MBA is still on Sierra and I've been lax with updates and organization.


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## Eric

Apple fanboy said:


> is 8GB enough RAM? I assume your photos are on an external?



Do you know if it's upgradable? I was able to add it to my iMac.


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## Eric

ronntaylor said:


> We got a couple of MacBook Airs (16GB RAM & 256 SSD). My current machine is a dying 2014 MBA, his is a 2019 unit that he's using a decent trade-in value to offset our total costs. Since we waited till the day after the announcement, we have to wait till the end of the month, early next month for delivery.
> 
> I'm already stressing out about transferring data. No transfer issues with our new phones, but my MBA is still on Sierra and I've been lax with updates and organization.



It sounds like Mine is "supposed" to ship next week according to Costco, I guess we'll have to wait and see but I don't mind waiting.


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## JayMysteri0

ericgtr12 said:


> Do you know if it's upgradable? I was able to add it to my iMac.



I believe Apple is continuing down their path of you buy the ram you want/need at the time of purchase.


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## ronntaylor

ericgtr12 said:


> It sounds like Mine is "supposed" to ship next week according to Costco, I guess we'll have to wait and see but I don't mind waiting.




Not sure how shipping times are determined. Seems a bit arbitrary, but maybe you lucked out by going the Costco route. Both M1 MBAs purchased direct from Apple: mine is getting the educational discount via hubby. Since he's trading in his 2019 MBA the cost is minimal.

Forgot to mention that we ultimately decided that the MBP was too much for our needs. May get a M1 Mac Mini or M1 iMac some time next as the house computer once we see how things go with the MBAs.


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## DT

ericgtr12 said:


> Do you know if it's upgradable? I was able to add it to my iMac.




Definitely not, I'd upgrade to 16GB.


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## Apple fanboy

ericgtr12 said:


> Do you know if it's upgradable? I was able to add it to my iMac.



No. All soldered RAM on a MacBook. Of course what we don't know is if an Intel i7 and and M1 will use similar RAM so where as 16GB is the minimum I'd go with on an Intel chip, who knows on an M1 chip!


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## User.45

DT said:


> So while we're waiting ...
> 
> The MBP should give you a good bit of additional processor/performance headroom because of the chassis/active cooling (aka, fans), plus the improved speakers, display, the groovy Touchbar (if you're into it ...), and another 3 hours of battery over the MBA (for a stunning 20 hours).
> 
> The M1 GPU is incredibly stout (way more performance vs. any Intel based 13" MBP), and as products start utilizing the Neural Engine, you're going to see insane performance (given the price/TDP).



Will this compete with CUDA anytime soon? Currently CUDA is the reason I'll never have a Mac only gig. My crafty GTX 1070 does stuff with CUDA in 30 sec what a fully spec'd 2017 MBA 15" would do in 2H.


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## Mark

definitely would benefit in many situations from 16GB RAM
worth canceling order and starting anew if need be to do this.


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## User.45

niji said:


> definitely would benefit in many situations from 16GB RAM
> worth canceling order and starting anew if need be to do this.



Agree. This is 2021. Never go below 16Gb RAM.


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## Eric

Appreciate the replies, I'll just stick with 8GB since it won't be my primary editing machine anyway. I have already cancelled the Intel version which got charged to our card (almost immediately) so we'll have to return that, we don't want to add this one as well. I will use for backup for photos (like on trips) so if I have to wait around for on it to process a few it's no biggie, but mostly it will be using it for MS Office and web browsing.


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## SuperMatt

The RAM is on the chip itself I believe. For your uses, sounds like 8GB will be fine


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## DT

PearsonX said:


> Will this compete with CUDA anytime soon? Currently CUDA is the reason I'll never have a Mac only gig. My crafty GTX 1070 does stuff with CUDA in 30 sec what a fully spec'd 2017 MBA 15" would do in 2H.




I don't know what the compute is like for the integrated SOC GPU on the M1, but it does have a dedicated neural engine, that I think is going to be powerful for ML type processing.


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## thekev

PearsonX said:


> Will this compete with CUDA anytime soon? Currently CUDA is the reason I'll never have a Mac only gig. My crafty GTX 1070 does stuff with CUDA in 30 sec what a fully spec'd 2017 MBA 15" would do in 2H.




A lot of that will come down to the API. CUDA is very mature, and it has a well established data model for parallel calculations, including generation of reductions and inter-warp shuffles. 

Much of the weakness with your Macbook pro is really that compilers are inconsistent with generating parallel code for x86_64, since SIMD vectorization acts like a bolted on feature rather than a programming model and multi-threading typically needs to be explicit.

There's a really good description of the issue here. Vectorization is quite far from the core programming model of most of these languages, since early on, only things like Crays tended to support it.






						The story of ispc: origins (part 1)
					

This one time, at Intel, I wrote a compiler...




					pharr.org
				




The tldr is that it shouldn't be that great of a disparity. Your macbook pro likely has a lot of untapped power. Also keep in mind, the GTX1070 is not meant to run in a laptop and is therefore allowed to soak up a lot more energy. 

I would expect Apple to see some improvements if the APIs are really there and they have enough developers pushing them, like what happened with CUDA.


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## dogslobber

My 2010 Mini had 16GB way back when it did. I just couldn't buy another computer with that limitation. My Mini has 32GB and can be upgraded to 64GB. Even my NUC7 from 2-3 years back can take 64GB in the 2 slots. I really think Apple are milking the first gen by holding back some of the expected features- 16GB as base config and 64GB being offered in the next gen I would think.


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## Eric

dogslobber said:


> My 2010 Mini had 16GB way back when it did. I just couldn't buy another computer with that limitation. My Mini has 32GB and can be upgraded to 64GB. Even my NUC7 from 2-3 years back can take 64GB in the 2 slots. I really think Apple are milking the first gen by holding back some of the expected features- 16GB as base config and 64GB being offered in the next gen I would think.



If 8 is so crippling you have to wonder why they even sell it. I am surprised to hear that the memory is baked into the chip though I was really hoping to have the ability to expand if needed but hopefully there's some gain to it without the need to bus it, it does take the word proprietary to the next level though.


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## dogslobber

ericgtr12 said:


> If 8 is so crippling you have to wonder why they even sell it. I am surprised to hear that the memory is baked into the chip though I was really hoping to have the ability to expand if needed but hopefully there's some gain to it without the need to bus it, it does take the word proprietary to the next level though.



The big issue for me is how bloated the windowing APIs are now. If you view the same tabs in Big Sur and Windows 10 of Chrome, there's like a 3x to 5x footprint difference. The footprint never gets smaller the newer the version of macOS.


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## SuperMatt

ericgtr12 said:


> If 8 is so crippling you have to wonder why they even sell it. I am surprised to hear that the memory is baked into the chip though I was really hoping to have the ability to expand if needed but hopefully there's some gain to it without the need to bus it, it does take the word proprietary to the next level though.



I don‘t think it will be crippling. The iPad Pros have less than that and run very well. The SSD is also so fast that RAM paging is not as bad as with a hard drive.


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## Eric

dogslobber said:


> The big issue for me is how bloated the windowing APIs are now. If you view the same tabs in Big Sur and Windows 10 of Chrome, there's like a 3x to 5x footprint difference. The footprint never gets smaller the newer the version of macOS.



Interesting, I know that when I run Chrome on my Microsoft Surface 3 (Windows 10) with 3 or 4 tabs open it pegs it and I can fry an egg on it, to the point the laptop becomes unusable.


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## SuperMatt

The SSD tests are starting to come in. The SSD’s are very fast, which might mitigate slowness from 8GB of RAM. Sorry, but I‘m linking to that other place....









						Apple Silicon M1 MacBook Air SSD Really Is Twice as Fast as Previous Model
					

As customers are receiving their new Apple Silicon Macs, we're starting to see more benchmarks and testing being posted in our Apple Silicon...




					www.macrumors.com


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## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> The SSD tests are starting to come in. The SSD’s are very fast, which might mitigate slowness from 8GB of RAM. Sorry, but I‘m linking to that other place....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple Silicon M1 MacBook Air SSD Really Is Twice as Fast as Previous Model
> 
> 
> As customers are receiving their new Apple Silicon Macs, we're starting to see more benchmarks and testing being posted in our Apple Silicon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.macrumors.com



Awesome news! MR is great for Mac info.


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## lizkat

ericgtr12 said:


> Awesome news! MR is great for Mac info.




(Yeah it's just PRSI may have gone downhill some thanks to your dragnet here man.)

The M1 seems amazing.  Sometimes I'm still getting my head around the fact I used to code for mainframes in rooms that took up half a city block but you had to keep modules smaller than 32k bytes and personal computing was not even a thing yet in anyone's garage. 

My grandfather only thought he lived in interesting times,  seeing stuff like motor cars and flying machines come off the drawing board.  I thought I'd seen it all after I booted my 512k Mac...  and forgot at that moment that before that I had thought I'd seen it all when I booted a dual-floppy 38-pound luggable Compaq ,with no graphics capability and a year or so from having such a thing as a "hard card" tacked into it.

Still sitting on my wallet this year... but I'm paying attention.


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## Renzatic

ericgtr12 said:


> Interesting, I know that when I run Chrome on my Microsoft Surface 3 (Windows 10) with 3 or 4 tabs open it pegs it and I can fry an egg on it, to the point the laptop becomes unusable.




You should be using Chromium Edge on a Windows device. It's effectively the same browser, but has been tweaked in a number of ways to be more efficient on ram.

On another note, when you get your MBP in, I was wondering if you could run a benchmark or two for me. I'm very, very interested in picking up a 2nd gen ARM Mac, probably when the 16" MBPs come out next year, and I want to see how this generation runs some things to give me an idea of what to expect.


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## Eric

Renzatic said:


> You should be using Chromium Edge on a Windows device. It's effectively the same browser, but has been tweaked in a number of ways to be more efficient on ram.
> 
> On another note, when you get your MBP in, I was wondering if you could run a benchmark or two for me. I'm very, very interested in picking up a 2nd gen ARM Mac, probably when the 16" MBPs come out next year, and I want to see how this generation runs some things to give me an idea of what to expect.



You bet, I'm hoping to have it within a week but will let you know. Just give me the details of what you want me to do.


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## JayMysteri0

In the Verge's reviews of the Air & Pro, they do point out that Chrome on these machines is a hog.

Seems like a _subtle_ way for Apple to steer you away from Chrome, or endure the hit.






I personally am more interested in the Mini, to possibly take the place of my 2014.



> Apple Mac mini with M1 review: over-performer
> 
> 
> The fastest Mac with an M1 chip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theverge.com


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## Renzatic

ericgtr12 said:


> You bet, I'm hoping to have it within a week but will let you know. Just give me the details of what you want me to do.




Cool deal! It's a bit complicated, but shouldn't be too difficult to get your head around.

Right now, some people in the Blender Foundation have seeded some alpha builds for the M1 chip. I was wondering if you could run it, play around with it a bit to see how it performs, and maybe do a benchmark or two. I'll ask you to do some random stuff to see how it runs when you grab it.

Like the guy says, it's an alpha, and it isn't necessarily a good watermark to use for predicting performance, but still, I'm curious.

Link to the Blender build.

Grab the Car Demo under the Cycles header for a good render benchmark.


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## DT

ericgtr12 said:


> If 8 is so crippling you have to wonder why they even sell it. I am surprised to hear that the memory is baked into the chip though I was really hoping to have the ability to expand if needed but hopefully there's some gain to it without the need to bus it, it does take the word proprietary to the next level though.




Apple hasn't had upgradable RAM in notebooks for some time, and there are absolutely technical advantages behind that decision.  No biggie.

The performance numbers coming in for the 3 new M1 based machines is stunning.  Again, this is the __entry__ level, and it's faster in several capacities than anything else in the product line, including higher end notebooks and iMacs.

The performance to power ratio is just off the charts, and it's a massive GPU increase over the previous comparable models. This is just the 4+4 (perf + efficiency) CPU, and 8 core GPU, but of course, the really clever thing is offloading certain tasks to chip specific duties, like the neural engine, DSP, HDR decoders, etc., especially as developers learn to make use of the latter.

Now think about a 8+4 or a 16+8 with like a 24 core GPU.


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## Eric

JayMysteri0 said:


> In the Verge's reviews of the Air & Pro, they do point out that Chrome on these machines is a hog.
> 
> Seems like a _subtle_ way for Apple to steer you away from Chrome, or endure the hit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally am more interested in the Mini, to possibly take the place of my 2014.



Funny you post this, I was JUST watching it. According to those guys the M1 is game changing, they loved it.



Renzatic said:


> Cool deal! It's a bit complicated, but shouldn't be too difficult to get your head around.
> 
> Right now, some people in the Blender Foundation have seeded some alpha builds for the M1 chip. I was wondering if you could run it, play around with it a bit to see how it performs, and maybe do a benchmark or two. I'll ask you to do some random stuff to see how it runs when you grab it.
> 
> Like the guy says, it's an alpha, and it isn't necessarily a good watermark to use for predicting performance, but still, I'm curious.
> 
> Link to the Blender build.
> 
> Grab the Car Demo under the Cycles header for a good render benchmark.



Sure, I'll let you know when it comes. I still haven't gotten a shipping confirmation from Costco yet.


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## DT

The other really cool thing (discussed in that Ars review): there's two primary types of MacOS apps: 1) is a universal app that contains both ARM and Intel binaries, meaning, your new machine will be running a fully native app. Then there are all sorts of existing Intel only apps (i.e., x86_64 binaries), and your machine can run these by translating the code into ARM code using Rosetta 2.  Apparently this is still incredibly fast, and more or less seamless, so that really makes the transition to ASi that much smoother.


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## Eric

DT said:


> The other really cool thing (discussed in that Ars review): there's two primary types of MacOS apps: 1) is a universal app that contains both ARM and Intel binaries, meaning, your new machine will be running a fully native app. Then there are all sorts of existing Intel only apps (i.e., x86_64 binaries), and your machine can run these by translating the code into ARM code using Rosetta 2.  *Apparently this is still incredibly fast, and more or less seamless, so that really makes the transition to ASi that much smoother.*



Looking at the video Jay posted above it sure sounds like it based on their testing. Can't wait to try this thing out.


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## Renzatic

Just saw this on my link above...



> In Handbrake, which tests the speed of the GPU when converting a 4K video file to 1080p, the Air completed the task in 8 minutes and 52 seconds. The Dell (17:24) was no match, and even the Lenovo (9:04) lagged behind. Rendering a 3D image in Blender, the Air took 6:24 using its CPU and 7:54 with its GPU. Again, those times easily beat the XPS 13 (9:47 for CPU and 10:50 for GPU) and the IdeaPad (9:37 for CPU and 9:09 for GPU) with their competitive chips. This is particularly impressive because Blender isn’t actually optimized for the M1, which means it was running on Rosetta 2, Apple’s emulation software that provides support for Intel-based Mac apps. That meant the MacBook Air wasn’t just exceptionally faster than its competitors in Blender, but it did it while also running an emulation layer.




This is just insane. I'm pretty much settled now. Once the 2nd gens come out, my next machine is going to be a Macbook.


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## thekev

DT said:


> The other really cool thing (discussed in that Ars review): there's two primary types of MacOS apps: 1) is a universal app that contains both ARM and Intel binaries, meaning, your new machine will be running a fully native app. Then there are all sorts of existing Intel only apps (i.e., x86_64 binaries), and your machine can run these by translating the code into ARM code using Rosetta 2.  Apparently this is still incredibly fast, and more or less seamless, so that really makes the transition to ASi that much smoother.




If it's fast, it's likely due to calling dynamically linked Apple apis for expensive sub-routines. Otherwise, no matter how optimized, you have the cost of implementing an entire instruction set architecture. I'll admit, I have wanted to see ARM make inroads in something that could be used as a dev box for some time.


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## iMi

PearsonX said:


> Agree. This is 2021. Never go below 16Gb RAM.




I’m not so sure. I just got the new iMac i9, 5700XT, 64GB memory... I am now getting the Mini and will compare. There are some differences in the way the architecture handles memory usage. Early benchmarks are showing that already. I’ll let you guys know how things go when the Mini gets here. I plan to return the iMac if all goes well.


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## Clix Pix

Ah, such a dangerous thing for me to do, watching that Verge video!!!!!!  AAAAIIEEEEEEEE!!!!!   My 12" MacBook, who had thought she was safe, is now getting anxious again.....         Ooooh, this is SO, SO tempting!!!!


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## DT

Clix Pix said:


> Ah, such a dangerous thing for me to do, watching that Verge video!!!!!!  AAAAIIEEEEEEEE!!!!!   My 12" MacBook, who had thought she was safe, is now getting anxious again.....         Ooooh, this is SO, SO tempting!!!!




OH MY GOODNESS, I HAVE SPILLED WATER ON MY NOTEBOOK, WHAT A MISTAKE, IT'S TOTALLY BROKEN, OH, WHAT WILL I DO ... ?


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## iMi

DT said:


> OH MY GOODNESS, I HAVE SPILLED WATER ON MY NOTEBOOK, WHAT A MISTAKE, IT'S TOTALLY BROKEN, OH, WHAT WILL I DO ... ?




Crazy. Mine inadvertently fell out of an open window, landed in the driveway and got run over by a lawnmower. Bad things happen to good Intel machines.


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## Clix Pix

LOL!!!!!  .  .         Hm.......  Well, I sometimes am a little careless when carrying the 12" MacBook to the other room.... Wouldn't it be a shame if I stumbled at just the wrong moment?!!

Now, THERE's a thought......!!!!!!        I still have the 15" 2018 MBP to use, though -- she's my primary machine -- and she's sitting here smugly safe in the knowledge that the ax won't fall for her until there is an M[fill in the number] version replacing the 15-and-16-inch MBPs......  THAT's the one I am definitely going to be buying when it becomes available!!!!

Of course, it is always useful to buy a new, basic entry-level machine when there are major changes in order to become accustomed to the changes and to make a transition to that new system smoother before one takes the big plunge and buys a more powerful, more robustly configured, new machine......     That is essentially what I did with the 12" MacBook.  It was my introduction to USB-C and began my transition to USB-C and Thunderbolt 3.  I bought a couple of dongles/adapters, then when available,  the appropriate cables and such so that by the time I was ready to buy my 15" 2018 MBP I had all that I needed to make the transition smooth and easy between it and the older 15" 2015 MBP she was replacing.    I never considered the transition to be "dongle hell" or any such thing.  It was effortless.....

Dang this pandemic!  If I had a couple of road trips planned and all that, it would be so easy to justify buying the new M1, as that is my 12" MacBook's primary purpose, although she does earn her way by doing some stuff around home here, too.....     One thing which IS attractive about the new M1 MBP or MBA is that both have 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports and the 12" MacBook has just the one USB-C port which then has to do everything, and can't be charging while I'm using that port for something else such as connecting an external drive.   I'll admit that this honestly hasn't been much of a problem, BUT.....the other day I was doing something on the MBP with two external drives swapping data and wanted to check something on my Samsung X5.....  I picked it up, ready to plug it into the 12" MacBook and, remembered: oops, nope, that wouldn't work.  MacBook only does USB-C, not Thunderbolt 3.  I had to wait until the larger machine had finished with the two external drives that were doing their thing on it before I could check what I needed to check on the X5.     Hm.... is that justification enough to buy a new M1 machine????   Well.....no, I suppose not......


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## Eric

I haven't spent this much time at MR in weeks but they have a ton of great discussion going on around this.


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## Clix Pix

It's probably not a good sign that I have been reading the threads there about the M1 machines......and even went to the extent of again looking at the specs and info on the Apple website and partly going through the process of selecting a machine, spec'ing it the way I'd want (1 TB SSD, 16 GB RAM MBP M1) and also checking to see what the price of AppleCare on it would be....  Ran the numbers to see what the state tax would be on one, too....and, ahem, pickup availability at my closest store. (Thursday).....     I haven't checked the trade-in value on the 12" MB, though:  actually, I think before I do that I'll take her into the other room. so she doesn't see!  Wouldn't want to hurt her feelings.....


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## Eric

Clix Pix said:


> It's probably not a good sign that I have been reading the threads there about the M1 machines......and even went to the extent of again looking at the specs and info on the Apple website and partly going through the process of selecting a machine, spec'ing it the way I'd want (1 TB SSD, 16 GB RAM MBP M1) and also checking to see what the price of AppleCare on it would be....  Ran the numbers to see what the state tax would be on one, too....and, ahem, pickup availability at my closest store. (Thursday).....     I haven't checked the trade-in value on the 12" MB, though:  actually, I think before I do that I'll take her into the other room. so she doesn't see!  Wouldn't want to hurt her feelings.....



All I can say is I'm glad Matt and DT jumped in and said something. It was too late to cancel my initial order of the Intel based MBP but we're just going to return it to Costco. Does anyone know if I can cancel AppleCare on that at the time of return or will it be separate? When we made the order for the M1 model I also got AppleCare separately for that one. I see it as insurance well spent just to be safe.


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## Clix Pix

Don't have an answer to your question but I definitely always purchase AppleCare on any devices and computers, especially mobile ones that will be going around the house and around town and out of town with me.  It's definitely something which brings me peace of mind.


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## iLunar

Wow, M1 is a beast. Just catching up on the reviews and specs. Just amazing.

I'm going to wait till next year to get a new MPB. I'm hoping for a new pro model that will last at least 5+ years. And I'm also hoping for a bit of a redesign or something completely unexpected. 

I feel like Apple Silicone has potential to really accelerate Apple's hardware creativity going forward.


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## DT

Clix Pix said:


> It's probably not a good sign that I have been reading the threads there about the M1 machines......and even went to the extent of again looking at the specs and info on the Apple website and partly going through the process of selecting a machine, spec'ing it the way I'd want (1 TB SSD, 16 GB RAM MBP M1) and also checking to see what the price of AppleCare on it would be....  Ran the numbers to see what the state tax would be on one, too....and, ahem, pickup availability at my closest store. (Thursday).....     I haven't checked the trade-in value on the 12" MB, though:  actually, I think before I do that I'll take her into the other room. so she doesn't see!  Wouldn't want to hurt her feelings.....





I just did a trade-in check on the wife's machine, that was a hand-me-down from me when I got my Mini last year.  It's a decently stout machine, a mid-2015 15" MBP, i7 2.5GHz, and it has the 390X dGPU option ... but it's also one of the recall machines (for the battery, never done ...), it's a bit heavy, and it's constantly going into 747 take off mode because I think the GPU gets a little excited (running an external display, so it has to fire up the GPU).

$520, not bad, makes a new M1 MBA 8/8-core, 512GB, 16GB RAM around $900.  The MBP is mint condition, original box, etc., so it might be worth a bit more on the open market, but that's also a PITA.


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## DT

ericgtr12 said:


> All I can say is I'm glad Matt and DT jumped in and said something. It was too late to cancel my initial order of the Intel based MBP but we're just going to return it to Costco. Does anyone know if I can cancel AppleCare on that at the time of return or will it be separate? When we made the order for the M1 model I also got AppleCare separately for that one. I see it as insurance well spent just to be safe.




You might have to go through some gyrations with Apple, re: Apple Care.  I was going to say you might also have been able to just transfer it to the new machine.

I mostly do AC/AC+, I mean, for my Mini, it was a no brainer at $89, and I've been getting it on iPhones, our iPad Pro is covered, also wife's new-ish Watch, and when I was shopping for a used Apple Watch, having some AC or the ability to guy AC was more or less a requirement (I mean, I super dirt cheap one, I might've not worried, heck my original pre-order Series 0 is still an 8.5-9 / 10 on condition).

One thing I was not able to determine about AC+, if you buy a product used, that has AC+ active, when that expires, Apple now offers going month-to-month, but I wasn't sure if a new owner could pick that up without the AC being in their name.  It wound up not being an issue, as I had a great seller who transferred it into my name (there was like 18-19 months remaining).  So now, in 2022, I could go month-to-month, if so inclined.


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## chagla

I was curious about this new chip. Not a good year for Intel. AMD is highly competitive, Apple using their own.. Last I heard they were going to try big.LITTLE architecture in future.


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## SuperMatt

chagla said:


> I was curious about this new chip. Not a good year for Intel. AMD is highly competitive, Apple using their own.. Last I heard they were going to try big.LITTLE architecture in future.



Apple came to Intel in 2006/7 when they were readying the first iPhone asking them to work on the chip with them, and Intel refused. They didn’t aggressively pursue processors for Android phones either. That decision is reverberating 13 years later, and Intel’s days are numbered. You can make the best trucks in the world, but if everybody decides they want cars instead, you’re no longer king of the hill.


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## SuperMatt

Daring Fireball’s M1 Mac review is up. I know he’s almost always pro-Apple, but I do like the way he writes his reviews.









						The M1 Macs
					

To acknowledge how good the new M1 Macs are — and I am here to tell you they are *astonishingly* good — you must acknowledge that certain longstanding assumptions about how computers should be designed, about what makes a better computer *better*, are wrong.




					daringfireball.net


----------



## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> Daring Fireball’s M1 Mac review is up. I know he’s almost always pro-Apple, but I do like the way he writes his reviews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The M1 Macs
> 
> 
> To acknowledge how good the new M1 Macs are — and I am here to tell you they are *astonishingly* good — you must acknowledge that certain longstanding assumptions about how computers should be designed, about what makes a better computer *better*, are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> daringfireball.net



Did you see this video? That is insane man.









						Absurd performance.
					

Just a little fun test I did on the base MBA...  Just opening every single default app in the dock of a fresh user and then opening the activity monitor at the end to check out RAM usage.  I dunno how useful is it to see this, but the speed and fluidity of everything is simply obscene for a MBA.




					forums.macrumors.com


----------



## Renzatic

SuperMatt said:


> That decision is reverberating 13 years later, and Intel’s days are numbered....




They really have screwed the pooch in a number of ways, haven't they? In 10 short years, they went from being the premiere processor manufacturer, with world leading fab technology, to designing 3rd place chips that are unable to match AMD's architecture for brute force strength, nor able to compete with Apple's now sky high performance per watt standard.

I'm not ready to write them off as a has-beens just yet, but they're solidly behind the 8-ball.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> They really have screwed the pooch in a number of ways, haven't they? In 10 short years, they went from being the premiere processor manufacturer, with world leading fab technology, to designing 3rd place chips that are unable to match AMD's architecture for brute force strength, nor able to compete with Apple's now sky high performance per watt standard.
> 
> I'm not ready to write them off as a has-beens just yet, but they're solidly behind the 8-ball.




Haven't sold what's left of my long since all-gravy AMD yet, which I bought on a lark back in 2009 because even in their previous stumbles they were worth more than how they bottomed out along with everything else as the Great Recession went on.   But I haven't bought more Apple either.

As a consumer though,  I'm not leaving the Apple ecosystem at this point in my life, so on the gear (and software) side, they still got me...  but not without some cranky feedback I'm always happy to email them from time to time.   I call that my rightfully imposed Apple-Eater's Value Added Tax.


----------



## iMi

I’ll be getting the M1 mini today. I’ll let you guys know how well it works. I have high hopes.


----------



## Eric

iMi said:


> I’ll be getting the M1 mini today. I’ll let you guys know how well it works. I have high hopes.



Awesome, let us know how it turns out. I was just watching another review here, so far the results have been positive across the board. It will be interesting to see how Intel responds to this, it's game changing for Apple from what I can see.


----------



## iMi

ericgtr12 said:


> Awesome, let us know how it turns out. I was just watching another review here, so far the results have been positive across the board. It will be interesting to see how Intel responds to this, it's game changing for Apple from what I can see.




Some people in that _other place_ are ridiculous. They are crying foul because these machines are not beating out the latest dedicated GPUs from Nvidia or AMD. That’s like responding to a new line of Volkswagens by complaining they aren’t as fast as Porsche. It has become such a cesspool of over-opinionated morons over there. And everyone of them is an expert, of course.


----------



## Renzatic

iMi said:


> I’ll be getting the M1 mini today. I’ll let you guys know how well it works. I have high hopes.




Hey, want to do me a favor? If you do it, I'll think you're the coolest ever...


----------



## Renzatic

iMi said:


> Some people in that _other place_ are ridiculous. They are crying foul because these machines are not beating out the latest dedicated GPUs from Nvidia or AMD. That’s like responding to a new line of Volkswagens by complaining they aren’t as fast as Porsche. It has become such a cesspool of over-opinionated morons over there. And everyone of them is an expert, of course.




Yeah, no matter how fancy or awesome it is, there's no way a laptop can compare with a top end discrete GPU in a desktop with a dedicated thousand watt power supply, and an active cooling system that weighs as much as both your ass cheeks combined. You can do all kinds of crazy things when battery life and heat aren't really much of a concern. 

That the new Macbooks have an integrated GPU that can roughly match a Geforce 1050 while sipping power is impressive in and of itself.


----------



## iMi

Renzatic said:


> Hey, want to do me a favor? If you do it, I'll think you're the coolest ever...




I’m already coolest ever... but shoot, what do you need?


----------



## Renzatic

iMi said:


> I’m already coolest ever... but shoot, what do you need?




Well, now you gotta prove it. 

You remember what I asked Ericgtr here a couple pages back? To take Blender through its paces on the new Macs? That's what I want you to do.

...I must know. O_0


----------



## DT

iMi said:


> Some people in that _other place_ are ridiculous. They are crying foul because these machines are not beating out the latest dedicated GPUs from Nvidia or AMD. That’s like responding to a new line of Volkswagens by complaining they aren’t as fast as Porsche. It has become such a cesspool of over-opinionated morons over there. And everyone of them is an expert, of course.





Right, these are "entry level" machines, but Apple has totally disrupted what that means.  These machines are outperforming much higher end gear in a number of ways, and where they're not, it's comparing things like $800 dedicated graphics cards.  No shit, that costs as much as the ENTIRE Mac Mini.

1 to 10, where on Intel, the 1 was the previous MBA (or like the i3 based Mini), and the 10 is the highest end 16" MBP or iMac - now these machines are like a 7+ (or match or exceed those highest end machines) and with lower power consumption, much longer battery life (where applicable).  Plus, software hasn't even gotten really optimized for using the various dedicated chips (again, where applicable).

To use your car analogy:  it's like VW showed up with a new Passat, same price as the old, that gets 100 MPG and it's faster than the Boxster, Cayman, and most of the 911 models.  But someone goes, aha!  It's not as fast as a 911 GT2 RS (@ $293,000)


----------



## iMi

Renzatic said:


> Well, now you gotta prove it.
> 
> You remember what I asked Ericgtr here a couple pages back? To take Blender through its paces on the new Macs? That's what I want you to do.
> 
> ...I must know. O_0




Ok, I made six gallons of smoothies. Blender works great. 

Seriously though... I’ll be happy to do it. Is this what you’re talking about? https://www.blender.org/news/introducing-blender-benchmark/


----------



## DT

iMi said:


> Ok, I made six gallons of smoothies. Blender works great.




OMG.


----------



## Renzatic

I was thinking about linking you to an alpha M1 rev of Blender, but with Rosetta apparently being not very noticeably different performancewise from native code, I'd say any Mac rev of Blender would do.

Though if you want to compare and contrast, here's the link to the Blender alpha.

And the most common benchmark used is the car demo, which you can find on the lower half of this page.

Course I'll also ask you to do a bunch of weird random crap, just to see how well it works. Like subdivide a cube a bunch of times, and all that good stuff.

And yeah, I know I could just wait a week or two for official reports, but...

A. I'm impatient.

and...

B. I like bugging people.


----------



## Clix Pix

DT said:


> I just did a trade-in check on the wife's machine, that was a hand-me-down from me when I got my Mini last year.  It's a decently stout machine, a mid-2015 15" MBP, i7 2.5GHz, and it has the 390X dGPU option ... but it's also one of the recall machines (for the battery, never done ...), it's a bit heavy, and it's constantly going into 747 take off mode because I think the GPU gets a little excited (running an external display, so it has to fire up the GPU).
> 
> $520, not bad, makes a new M1 MBA 8/8-core, 512GB, 16GB RAM around $900.  The MBP is mint condition, original box, etc., so it might be worth a bit more on the open market, but that's also a PITA.




I sold my 2015 15" MBP to a friend at the time I bought this 2018 15" MBP in late 2018.....can't recall now what he gave me  for it, but I would say that your getting $520.00 now is a pretty good price in 2020!   Enoy your new M1 MBA!!!


----------



## iMi

Renzatic said:


> I was thinking about linking you to an alpha M1 rev of Blender, but with Rosetta apparently being not very noticeably different performancewise from native code, I'd say any Mac rev of Blender would do.
> 
> Though if you want to compare and contrast, here's the link to the Blender alpha.
> 
> And the most common benchmark used is the car demo, which you can find on the lower half of this page.
> 
> Course I'll also ask you to do a bunch of weird random crap, just to see how well it works. Like subdivide a cube a bunch of times, and all that good stuff.
> 
> And yeah, I know I could just wait a week or two for official reports, but...
> 
> A. I'm impatient.
> 
> and...
> 
> B. I like bugging people.




I tried running it but I get an error message saying "Did not receive Benchmark JSON Data."


----------



## iMi

So, running what I basically run on the daily basis, I am pretty impressed overall. Rendering a 3D scene showed the biggest discrepancy. The iMac (i9/5700XT) rendered in 30 min. The mini reported estimated completion time as 1 hour and 20 minutes. Exporting 80+ pages out of Publisher into PDF looked to be neck-to-neck until the application crashed near completion. Like several times in a row. Exporting to other formats looked to be very close. So, there is a bug to be worked out on PDF export. Compressing a large folder was about the same time. Making adjustments in Photoshop, importing, rasterizing, etc. is all smooth on both machines. No noticeable difference really. Didn’t try any video workflows yet. ML operations in Pixelmator Pro are faster on the mini. Photos app seems smoother on the mini as well. 

It’s worth noting this is the base mini. I’m still waiting for the 16GB/1TB option to arrive from Apple.


----------



## DT

BTW, I talked to an Apple sales specialist yesterday, nice Guy named Don, he said with a trade-in you have 14 days after you receive your new product. 

I was a little concerned because it said 14 days on a trade however the replacement machine won’t be here for almost 30. We couldn’t be without that extra machine for two weeks, plus I need them both here to transfer data.


----------



## Renzatic

iMi said:


> I tried running it but I get an error message saying "Did not receive Benchmark JSON Data."




What all did you try to do? Did it refuse to render at all?


----------



## iMi

Renzatic said:


> What all did you try to do? Did it refuse to render at all?




Yeah, but once everything indexed, it now seems to work. I'll run the benchmark after work and let you know what it says. I think spotlight was hard at work in the background. Everything feels waaaaaay snappier this morning. I'm using it for work and finding fewer and fewer reasons to keep the iMac. It will almost certainly go back on Monday.


----------



## Huntn

I have a 2016 ($2000 at the time) MBP, one step down from dedicated graphics. I use it mostly for file management, bill paying, genealogy research, other minor tasks, infrequently basic photo manipulation. When the time comes, if the new models are fast and have big enough hard drives (although I keep most data on, and backed up on external drives) I would still need adequate USB connections, then  I would consider downgrading to a MBAir. I easily spend most of my browsing time on my iPad.


----------



## iMi

Renzatic said:


> What all did you try to do? Did it refuse to render at all?



Here's the Blender benchmark result for the BWM scene.


----------



## Renzatic

iMi said:


> Here's the Blender benchmark result for the BWM scene.




Wow, that's almost twice as fast as what I get out of my (admittedly older) desktop machine when rendering on the CPU. Not too shabby.


----------



## Eric

Renzatic said:


> Wow, that's almost twice as fast as what I get out of my (admittedly older) desktop machine when rendering on the CPU. Not too shabby.



Yeah the reviews on this thing are out of the park, could be the biggest game changer for Apple since the iPhone.


----------



## iMi

Renzatic said:


> Wow, that's almost twice as fast as what I get out of my (admittedly older) desktop machine when rendering on the CPU. Not too shabby.




I don't have a point of reference, but I will only say that I was also running a whole bunch of apps during the test and had to check to make sure it was running because there was no sound. None. The mini was completely silent and cold to the touch. What is amazing is that the first day it was actually slow and kind of weirdly buggy. I think Spotlight indexing must have been playing a role or something. Now it runs smoothly and is surprisingly capable in everything I do. The iMac that costs over 2.5x as much is now boxed up and ready to head back to Apple.


----------



## Renzatic

iMi said:


> I don't have a point of reference, but I will only say that I was also running a whole bunch of apps during the test and had to check to make sure it was running because there was no sound. None. The mini was completely silent and cold to the touch. What is amazing is that the first day it was actually slow and kind of weirdly buggy. I think Spotlight indexing must have been playing a role or something. Now it runs smoothly and is surprisingly capable in everything I do. The iMac that costs over 2.5x as much is now boxed up and ready to head back to Apple.




I know that my Windows PC can get pretty loud, especially while I'm doing GPU rendering. Doing the BMW scene in a little over 6 minutes through rosetta with other apps running in the background is pretty damn incredible. Most higher end consumer machines do it in around 5:30 on native code.

If you really want to see how good it can do, grab the latest version of Blender (2.90), download the car scene, then when it opens up, hit F12 (or go to the Render dropdown, and select Render Image at the top of the menu), then let it roll, nothing else running in the background. It'll tell you the final render time at the top of the popup window when it's done rendering. That's about the best way to find out exactly how fast it is.


----------



## Renzatic

ericgtr12 said:


> Yeah the reviews on this thing are out of the park, could be the biggest game changer for Apple since the iPhone.




It's done enough to impress me. When the mid-tier machines start showing up, I'll be first in line.

Though are there laptop docks for the Macbooks? Something compact and convenient to plug a laptop into so I can use it on a monitor with my nice S/PDIF speakers with it?


----------



## iMi

Renzatic said:


> I know that my Windows PC can get pretty loud, especially while I'm doing GPU rendering. Doing the BMW scene in a little over 6 minutes through rosetta with other apps running in the background is pretty damn incredible. Most higher end consumer machines do it in around 5:30 on native code.
> 
> If you really want to see how good it can do, grab the latest version of Blender (2.90), download the car scene, then when it opens up, hit F12 (or go to the Render dropdown, and select Render Image at the top of the menu), then let it roll, nothing else running in the background. It'll tell you the final render time at the top of the popup window when it's done rendering. That's about the best way to find out exactly how fast it is.




The 2.9 version errors out. There seems to be a bug.

By the way I am using the base model with just 8GB of memory. The 16GB/1TB version I ordered is still a couple of weeks away. I suspect the additional memory will make it even snappier. I am very impressed with it and keeping it my main office machine. I am right now working on a video in Final Cut and it’s just flying. In fact, I have yet to notice any meaningful difference between the mini and the iMac, aside from rendering a 3D in Photoshop which is way slower on the mini. Like 30 min on the iMac versus 1 hour and 40 minutes. The Pro 5700XT is the differentiating factor no doubt.


----------



## Eric

Finally got it and can confirm it's all that and a side of fries. The difference between it and the overheating Microsoft Surface 3 is like night and day. I've been running heavy both PS 2021, Lighroom and Chrome with a dozen tabs open on it for 2 days and it doesn't even get warm, the Surface couldn't even handle just Chrome with 3 or 4 tabs before spinning the fan on hight and becoming unresponsive. I did get it replaced but will only use it for basic tasks at work now.


----------



## thekev

16GB / 1TB is basically the minimum baseline for me in a machine today. Beyond that, the additional benefit drops off pretty sharply, relative to cost increases. Below that, I have to be too careful about usage.


----------



## LIVEFRMNYC

I'm thinking of trading my MBP '15 (mid 2018 512gb 16gb) which Apple will give me $1,100 for.  And getting the 512gb 16gb 13' M1 at $1,699, which would be $599 after trade in.


----------



## Clix Pix

I'm keeping my 15" 2018 MBP, as she is not quite two years old yet -- next month will mark that occasion -- and if I buy a 13" M1 MBP it'll be as a supplementary machine to the larger one, since I use the 15" 2018 attached to an external Thunderbolt 3 monitor and do all my image processing/editing on it.   The machine that would be pretty much replaced is the 2017 12" MacBook, which I use primarily for travel and for toting around the house and around town.  I love that machine dearly, though, and may just keep it anyway -- its light weight and slim profile are ideal for travel.  I need to check and see what the trade-in value would be for it, and then make up my mind about what I am going to do.  There have been times when I've needed to have two ports on it, and when those ports needed to have been Thunderbolt 3 rather than just USB-C.   That would be one reason for getting an M1 and using it for some of the things that in the past I've used the 12" machine for.

When Apple releases the next bunch of M1 machines, or at least at some point those which are more equivalent to my 15" 2018 MBP with four Thunderbolt ports, etc., and maybe even if needed) a discrete graphics card along with the primary one, that's when I'll be trading in my 15" 2018 machine......   Her days are numbered, but she doesn't know that yet!


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> Right, these are "entry level" machines, but Apple has totally disrupted what that means.  These machines are outperforming much higher end gear in a number of ways, and where they're not, it's comparing things like $800 dedicated graphics cards.  No shit, that costs as much as the ENTIRE Mac Mini.
> 
> 1 to 10, where on Intel, the 1 was the previous MBA (or like the i3 based Mini), and the 10 is the highest end 16" MBP or iMac - now these machines are like a 7+ (or match or exceed those highest end machines) and with lower power consumption, much longer battery life (where applicable).  Plus, software hasn't even gotten really optimized for using the various dedicated chips (again, where applicable).
> 
> To use your car analogy:  it's like VW showed up with a new Passat, same price as the old, that gets 100 MPG and it's faster than the Boxster, Cayman, and most of the 911 models.  But someone goes, aha!  It's not as fast as a 911 GT2 RS (@ $293,000)



any data on eGPUs? Is it compatible with those? I've been relatively disappointed in MacOS' handling eGPUs, but if I really had to rely on it, it works just fine on prev gen macs (like smacking a GT2RS engine in your Passat).


----------



## iMi

PearsonX said:


> any data on eGPUs? Is it compatible with those? I've been relatively disappointed in MacOS' handling eGPUs, but if I really had to rely on it, it works just fine on prev gen macs (like smacking a GT2RS engine in your Passat).




eGPUs are not compatible with Apple silicone Macs. There is also no indication they will ever be supported, even under Windows, which Apple says can run natively on their chip and that it's up to Microsoft to implement it.


----------



## Joe

My 2017 MBP is still good enough for me


----------



## Renzatic

Here we go, yall!

This is a freaking Macbook Air, and it's handling renders faster than my desktop.


----------



## User.45

Renzatic said:


> Here we go, yall!
> 
> This is a freaking Macbook Air, and it's handling renders faster than my desktop.



Never tried to run it on my i5 Air, but this seems pretty remarkable.


----------



## Renzatic

PearsonX said:


> Never tried to run it on my i5 Air, but this seems pretty remarkable.




It's pretty stout. I can't wait to see how the mid-tier revs of the M1 perform.

For shits and giggles, I decided to compare the above to my machine. I have an i5-4590, Geforce GTX 1060 6Gb, and 16Gb ram, which is pretty middling at best these days, but is still a full on desktop machine with no limits on power consumption or heat concerns.

After running through the Amy animation, and rendering 100 frames of the Splash Fox, my machine is only slightly faster than the entry level MBA. I could get 14FPS in the viewport instead of 10, and it took 20 minutes to render out the fox instead of 24 minutes. Considering this is a little fanless laptop vs. my big ass PC, and Blender isn't even running native on the Mac, that's pretty damn impressive.


----------



## Eric

Renzatic said:


> Here we go, yall!
> 
> This is a freaking Macbook Air, and it's handling renders faster than my desktop.



Would be interesting to see how it performs over longer periods of sustained processing, the main reason I went with the MBP is so it will kick on the fan instead of throttling the CPU down. Granted I went with only 8GB RAM but I've had it for several days now and even with massive apps running the fan has never kicked on.


----------



## Renzatic

ericgtr12 said:


> Would be interesting to see how it performs over longer periods of sustained processing, the main reason I went with the MBP is so it will kick on the fan instead of throttling the CPU down. Granted I went with only 8GB RAM but I've had it for several days now and even with massive apps running the fan has never kicked on.




I can't remember where I saw the video, but the MBA does eventually throttle under longer workloads where the MBP keeps on ticking. It took awhile for it to reach that point though. Something like running some benchmark or another for half an hour before they saw the Pro pull ahead due to the fan.


----------



## DT

I just can't f***ing get one before Christmas ... I should've gotten one on order ASAP, but now I'm relegated to either buying a spec I don't want, or hoping to stumble on one through some non-direct channel.

My plan was to trade the wife's MBP on one as well, but this one would be for the little G and possibly me for if/when we travel (umm, if ever ...)


----------



## Eric

DT said:


> I just can't f***ing get one before Christmas ... I should've gotten one on order ASAP, but now I'm relegated to either buying a spec I don't want, or hoping to stumble on one through some non-direct channel.
> 
> My plan was to trade the wife's MBP on one as well, but this one would be for the little G and possibly me for if/when we travel (umm, if ever ...)



Have you looked at Costco (if you have a membership)? I was able to get mine within a week there.


----------



## Clix Pix

I'm planning to do what I've done in the past;  wait for the initial rush to settle down and then after checking availability for pickup, simply walk into my local Apple retail store and buy one then.    I did that with the 15" 2018 MBP -- waited patiently for a few weeks after it had been refreshed and now included what I wanted in terms of ideal specs, and on the day I saw it would be available for pickup at the Tysons Apple store, got in the car, went over there, and came home with my new machine.   Of course that wasn't a brand-new model and everything, so the demand wasn't as high for it in the first place as the demand is for the new M1 machines....  I might have a longer wait than I think.


----------



## DT

Wow, B&H has the base M1 Air for $899 ($100 discount), and free shipping, and they don't collect tax in Florida.  That might be hard to pass up for just an extra machine for here, or maybe the Little G uses it, then migrate it to JB, later and get another one, but the upgraded 8/8, 16GB RAM model.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Wow, B&H has the base M1 Air for $899 ($100 discount), and free shipping, and they don't collect tax in Florida.  That might be hard to pass up for just an extra machine for here, or maybe the Little G uses it, then migrate it to JB, later and get another one, but the upgraded 8/8, 16GB RAM model.





Today, I ordered one of the $899 MBA "base" models, it's for JB, her needs are pretty minimal, and it's still probably 2-3X faster than the 2015 MBP it's replacing.  Right, again, so till midnight tonight (Nov 30th), $100 discount, and 2 day free shipping __and__ like I mentioned, no tax to Florida, so that's $899 to my door. 

Right, so, I was just going to do a trade with Apple, $520, they send a box, low hassle.  I did go ahead and bump my for sale ad on MR for it, figured, maybe there was another good $200 in a private sale.  A couple of folks PM, one really nice guy actually here in Florida (in the Tampa area), offers a decent amount over the trad,  I say, yeah, it's in mint condition, fans run a bit, and it's got a free battery replacement confirmed (but hasn't been done).  He asks for a few more pics.

Well, holy hell, I start wiping it down and notice the top plate (like the keyboard area), is swollen, I mention that, tell him I might keep it and do a new battery, he says, he'd be OK with doing that too.  So today I finally shoot some pics, wow.  The top plate, has a good 1/2" deflection, the bottom is also puffy (it weebles on a flat surface ...), and even the side of the case is starting to separate.  Heck, this machine is probably even a bit dangerous    (it might be on a "no ship list" too, as it was a "no fly" machine).

Anyway, the new machine is on "back order", but I see that Amazon and BB are getting stock around the 5th or 6th, figure B&H will too, it's not for Christmas, but just want to shutdown this old MBP for good (or at least until I replace the battery, if ever).


----------



## ronntaylor

DT said:


> Today, I ordered one of the $899 MBA "base" models, it's for JB, her needs are pretty minimal, and it's still probably 2-3X faster than the 2015 MBP it's replacing.  Right, again, so till midnight tonight (Nov 30th), $100 discount, and 2 day free shipping __and__ like I mentioned, no tax to Florida, so that's $899 to my door.
> 
> Right, so, I was just going to do a trade with Apple, $520, they send a box, low hassle.  I did go ahead and bump my for sale ad on MR for it, figured, maybe there was another good $200 in a private sale.  A couple of folks PM, one really nice guy actually here in Florida (in the Tampa area), offers a decent amount over the trad,  I say, yeah, it's in mint condition, fans run a bit, and it's got a free battery replacement confirmed (but hasn't been done).  He asks for a few more pics.
> 
> Well, holy hell, I start wiping it down and notice the top plate (like the keyboard area), is swollen, I mention that, tell him I might keep it and do a new battery, he says, he'd be OK with doing that too.  So today I finally shoot some pics, wow.  The top plate, has a good 1/2" deflection, the bottom is also puffy (it weebles on a flat surface ...), and even the side of the case is starting to separate.  Heck, this machine is probably even a bit dangerous    (it might be on a "no ship list" too, as it was a "no fly" machine).
> 
> Anyway, the new machine is on "back order", but I see that Amazon and BB are getting stock around the 5th or 6th, figure B&H will too, it's not for Christmas, but just want to shutdown this old MBP for good (or at least until I replace the battery, if ever).



Hubby's first MBA had similar issue. He didn't notice it actually. I was looking at it from the side and thought "That's odd!" Sure enough, the battery area was bulging. We took in to Apple for disposal. I believe it was a 2013 machine. Hadn't been used in ages. My 2014 machine was repurposed for the in-laws (to go along with our hand-me-down iPhones). Dad finally has a smart phone. His flip phone was taped and cracked, barely usable. Some tech joint wanted to charge him $150+ for a "new" flip phone.


----------



## DT

Since the MBP has an extended warranty on battery replacement, I'm wondering if I take it in, if they'll just say no, or replace the chassis ... or even just give us a new machine


----------



## leekohler2

LIVEFRMNYC said:


> I'm thinking of trading my MBP '15 (mid 2018 512gb 16gb) which Apple will give me $1,100 for.  And getting the 512gb 16gb 13' M1 at $1,699, which would be $599 after trade in.



I have the most recent 16" Intel MBP, and this is the first time ever that I am tempted to do the trade in thing. I'm gonna wait to see what the 16" ones are like. But if they're crazy good, I'll do the trade in.


----------



## SuperMatt

leekohler2 said:


> I have the most recent 16" Intel MBP, and this is the first time ever that I am tempted to do the trade in thing. I'm gonna wait to see what the 16" ones are like. But if they're crazy good, I'll do the trade in.



I think my next computer will be a desktop. But I won’t be in the market for a while because I have a 16” MBP supplied by work. I’d love to see what an Apple Silicon Mac Pro could be like - cheaper than the current Pro I hope. I have an original Mac Pro that still runs fine, so I wish the current Mac Pros weren’t so expensive... that kind of machine can run for many years.


----------



## leekohler2

SuperMatt said:


> I think my next computer will be a desktop. But I won’t be in the market for a while because I have a 16” MBP supplied by work. I’d love to see what an Apple Silicon Mac Pro could be like - cheaper than the current Pro I hope. I have an original Mac Pro that still runs fine, so I wish the current Mac Pros weren’t so expensive... that kind of machine can run for many years.



I hear you. I used to be a desktop guy until the trash can Mac Pro. And the new ones are way out of my range!


----------



## DT

leekohler2 said:


> I have the most recent 16" Intel MBP, and this is the first time ever that I am tempted to do the trade in thing. I'm gonna wait to see what the 16" ones are like. But if they're crazy good, I'll do the trade in.




There's another set of M1 based SOCs definitely planned, though details are all speculation.  I like the idea circulating that M1 (and eventually M2, etc.) designate chips with the same 5nm process, using the same general architecture, but there will be variants, i.e., M1 + <some_designation>.  You know, not unlike the A12, that had an A12X, an A12Z (as core counts increased).

So figuring on an M1<something>  for the next flavor, that will find a home in a higher power 13" (or maybe a 14"), and the 16" MBPs.  A nice bump in core counts, like 12-16 for CPU/GPU (I'd guess just retaining for the 4 low power CPU cores ...), 24 core ML subsystem, maybe a little fudge to the clock speeds,  plus 32, maybe 64GB RAM options, and at least 4 TB/USB-4 ports (with the ability to drive 2-4 external displays).




SuperMatt said:


> I think my next computer will be a desktop. But I won’t be in the market for a while because I have a 16” MBP supplied by work. I’d love to see what an Apple Silicon Mac Pro could be like - cheaper than the current Pro I hope. I have an original Mac Pro that still runs fine, so I wish the current Mac Pros weren’t so expensive... that kind of machine can run for many years.




Yeah, I'm thinking (hoping) we see something like a Mini Pro that gets the next M1 variant (and all the improvements I mentioned).  The current M1 Mini has a ton of available space too, so more storage and/or better cooling, etc. , plenty of panel space so could easily get 6 ports - and pricewise, the 16GB/512GB M1 model is $1099, and gives my i7 a run for the money, and decimates it in terms of graphic (GPU) performance (the Intel machine being $1499, though I actually have a factory 32GB Mini ...)

If the RAM pricing was the same for the 16_to_32GB bump as Intel, that's +$400, no idea about the next gen M1, but even if it was another $400, a Mini Pro, 32GB, with say, 16 CPU cores, like 16-24 GPU cores, that could drive 4 displays at 5K, with graphic performance reaching high-er-ish end discrete GPUs?  For under $2K?  Take my money!


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> There's another set of M1 based SOCs definitely planned, though details are all speculation.  I like the idea circulating that M1 (and eventually M2, etc.) designate chips with the same 5nm process, using the same general architecture, but there will be variants, i.e., M1 + <some_designation>.  You know, not unlike the A12, that had an A12X, an A12Z (as core counts increased).
> 
> So figuring on an M1<something>  for the next flavor, that will find a home in a higher power 13" (or maybe a 14"), and the 16" MBPs.  A nice bump in core counts, like 12-16 for CPU/GPU (I'd guess just retaining for the 4 low power CPU cores ...), 24 core ML subsystem, maybe a little fudge to the clock speeds,  plus 32, maybe 64GB RAM options, and at least 4 TB/USB-4 ports (with the ability to drive 2-4 external displays).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm thinking (hoping) we see something like a Mini Pro that gets the next M1 variant (and all the improvements I mentioned).  The current M1 Mini has a ton of available space too, so more storage and/or better cooling, etc. , plenty of panel space so could easily get 6 ports - and pricewise, the 16GB/512GB M1 model is $1099, and gives my i7 a run for the money, and decimates it in terms of graphic (GPU) performance (the Intel machine being $1499, though I actually have a factory 32GB Mini ...)
> 
> If the RAM pricing was the same for the 16_to_32GB bump as Intel, that's +$400, no idea about the next gen M1, but even if it was another $400, a Mini Pro, 32GB, with say, 16 CPU cores, like 16-24 GPU cores, that could drive 4 displays at 5K, with graphic performance reaching high-er-ish end discrete GPUs?  For under $2K?  Take my money!



I read somewhere that the M1 machines can actually drive 4 or 5 screens already, despite the lower number in their specs.


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> In the Verge's reviews of the Air & Pro, they do point out that Chrome on these machines is a hog.
> 
> Seems like a _subtle_ way for Apple to steer you away from Chrome, or endure the hit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally am more interested in the Mini, to possibly take the place of my 2014.



Great video. I remember the last time 2016 I purchased  the mid MBR, it was mostly because it has a larger hard drive for when I messed with Bootcamp, which I no longer do, and it has 4 thunderbolt ports. I keep most of my data external on dual backed up hard drives, I’m not doing any high end tasks, and I realize I can buy a USB C adapter for a new machine, chances are when I do upgrade it will be to an Air.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Huntn said:


> Great video. I remember the last time 2016 I purchased  the mid MBR, it was mostly because it has a larger hard drive for when I messed with Bootcamp, which I no longer do, and it has 4 thunderbolt ports. I keep most of my data external on dual backed up hard drives, I’m not doing any high end tasks, and I realize I can buy a USB C adapter for a new machine, chances are when I do upgrade it will be to an Air.



I would like to, even more so on the Pro, but I've really enjoyed using an iPad Pro as my portable device & a Mini as my desktop.

I was going to pull the trigger on a new Mini, but got distracted & now the delivery date for one I want is January 12th.  That made my self control suddenly return.  

I've always fancied an iMac, so now with my newfound self control, I'll be waiting to see what those will be like.


----------



## Huntn

JayMysteri0 said:


> I would like to, even more so on the Pro, but I've really enjoyed using an iPad Pro as my portable device & a Mini as my desktop.
> 
> I was going to pull the trigger on a new Mini, but got distracted & now the delivery date for one I want is January 12th.  That made my self control suddenly return.
> 
> I've always fancied an iMac, so now with my newfound self control, I'll be waiting to see what those will be like.



My desktop arrangement is mostly devoted to my gaming PC with a 4k monitor, a smaller secondary monitor to the left side and the Mac laptop sitting in the left corner of the desk below the secondary monitor. And I can pick it up (MBP)  and go if the need arises.


----------



## Clix Pix

I am still waiting patiently for them to be readily available on store shelves, and then I'll go get me one.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Today, I ordered one of the $899 MBA "base" models, it's for JB, her needs are pretty minimal, and it's still probably 2-3X faster than the 2015 MBP it's replacing.  Right, again, so till midnight tonight (Nov 30th), $100 discount, and 2 day free shipping __and__ like I mentioned, no tax to Florida, so that's $899 to my door.




Still on backorder this morning at B&H, CSR says, "No idea" about stock. <meh_face>

*cancelled order*

Another Authorized reseller on Amazon had them for the normal retail of $999, but no tax, free shipping, and used an Amazon CC so 5% CB, making the machine effectively $949, and it should be here Thursday.  Just couldn't wait with the current MBP looking the way it does ($50 isn't a huge deal breaker either)


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Another Authorized reseller on Amazon had them for the normal retail of $999, but no tax, free shipping, and used an Amazon CC so 5% CB, making the machine effectively $949, and it should be here Thursday.  Just couldn't wait with the current MBP looking the way it does ($50 isn't a huge deal breaker either)


----------



## leekohler2

Ok all, here's a probably dumb question- but what is the clock speed on these things? Am I missing something, or has clock speed become irrelevant?


----------



## Renzatic

leekohler2 said:


> Ok all, here's a probably dumb question- but what is the clock speed on these things? Am I missing something, or has clock speed become irrelevant?




I know the MBP is clocked at around 3.2Ghz. The MBA rev might be slightly slower.


----------



## leekohler2

Renzatic said:


> I know the MBP is clocked at around 3.2Ghz. The MBA rev might be slightly slower.



Ok cool. I just didn’t see anything on Apple’s site. Can’t wait to see what they do with the 16” MBP.


----------



## Renzatic

leekohler2 said:


> Ok cool. I just didn’t see anything on Apple’s site. Can’t wait to see what they do with the 16” MBP.




That's what I'm waiting on. Hope it's rad.


----------



## leekohler2

Renzatic said:


> That's what I'm waiting on. Hope it's rad.



I thought the latest one was awesome. But it looks like the new ones will blow it out of the water.


----------



## Renzatic

leekohler2 said:


> I thought the latest one was awesome. But it looks like the new ones will blow it out of the water.




The way I see it, if I'm going to be dropping 2k on a new computer, I'm going to want something that'll last me at least 5 years. These new Macs are great for showing us the power of the M1 chip, but they're still entry level machines. I'm going to want something a little more mid-level, with a beefier GPU, and 32GB ram if it's available.


----------



## Huntn

Renzatic said:


> The way I see it, if I'm going to be dropping 2k on a new computer, I'm going to want something that'll last me at least 5 years. These new Macs are great for showing us the power of the M1 chip, but they're still entry level machines. I'm going to want something a little more mid-level, with a beefier GPU, and 32GB ram if it's available.



My last MBP 2016 model was mid priced and I still paid $2000 for it. I do nothing that stresses it, so I’ll keep it until it croaks or shoot for 7 years. Is a 7 year old Mac still marketable?

But my point is that I think I bought more than I needed based on these days, mostly keeping files,  interacting with various entities via a browner, and doing basic photo editing. Looking forward to saving some money on my next purchase.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Huntn said:


> My last MBP 2016 model was mid priced and I still paid $2000 for it. I do nothing that stresses it, so I’ll keep it until it croaks or shoot for 7 years. Is a 7 year old Mac still marketable?
> 
> But my point is that I think I bought more than I needed based on these days, mostly keeping files,  interacting with various entities via a browner, and doing basic photo editing. Looking forward to saving some money on my next purchase.



My 2015 MBP which was considered Grail material after the butterfly fiasco is worth $250 now.  I paid $1200 because it was Open Box at Best Buy.


----------



## leekohler2

Renzatic said:


> The way I see it, if I'm going to be dropping 2k on a new computer, I'm going to want something that'll last me at least 5 years. These new Macs are great for showing us the power of the M1 chip, but they're still entry level machines. I'm going to want something a little more mid-level, with a beefier GPU, and 32GB ram if it's available.



Yeah, I had to buy the one I have now once working from home started. I had a 2012 retina MBP and the company software was killing it. Bought the 16” in April thinking I would have it as long as the 2012, then Apple announced M1. I just about shit myself, I was so mad.  But hey, it’s good they’re doing what they’re doing. The new ones are probably gonna rock. Once they come out, if they look good, I’ll be all over it.


----------



## DT

The new M1 MBA showed up today at ~2p.  Display looks terrific ( better than previous MBA with retina), love the Space Gray finish, and yeah, it's fast, and this is just the base 8+7/8/256 model.  I wound up skipping a migration, just setup the machine new, iCloud, accounts, and just moved over all the wife's file via an external drive (used my USB-C hub from the iPad to connect the old school USB drive).  She had her old MBP for a long time, then inherited my MBP (that machine was trying to murder her ...), it's been a while since she had something brand new.

Since 99% of her use (work and personal) can be done with the OS bundled apps, she's mostly native AS.  I installed AS Chrome, and for fun I installed Pixelmator, it did the Rosetta update during install, and after starting once, now it runs super fast, as fast as it runs native on my machine.  I also installed the iPad version of A Better Route Planner, and wow, yeah, it just runs!  Did the .1 update, as well as the updates for the bundled apps (iMovie, Keynote, etc.), went just as expected.

We had an existing (used one time) Aukey 65w PD charger, used that (and a long Aukey USB-C rated for charging) instead of even unpackaging the OEM charger or cable.  Picked up an Anker USB-C_to_HDMI dongle ($11) for her external display, tested, works perfectly, will connect her KB and TP tomorrow.

For the effective net price of ~$950 to our door, it's pretty spectacular so far.

As soon as I can get an Apple appointment scheduled, I'll take the '15 MBP in for that supposedly free battery replacement. Worst case?  They tell me to get bent


----------



## ronntaylor

DT said:


> As soon as I can get an Apple appointment scheduled, I'll take the '15 MBP in for that supposedly free battery replacement. Worst case? They tell me to get bent




Do not be shocked by how they accommodate you. Don't want to jinx it, but based on how a few friends and family members were treated, be ready for a surprise. (A good surprise)


----------



## DT

ronntaylor said:


> Do not be shocked by how they accommodate you. Don't want to jinx it, but based on how a few friends and family members were treated, be ready for a surprise. (A good surprise)




Is the surprise sexual in nature?  Geez, I need to get scheduled ASAP ...


Yeah, I'm hoping for some sort of, er, Xmas miracle.  Worst case I might buy an iFixit battery kit and DIY, better case, they swap the battery and I think the SOP for that is also replacing the topcase/KB/TP (which would kind of make it a new machine).  Best case?  Oh, I think I know what you mean (fingers crossed).

Actually, it doesn't look like I'll be able to get it scheduled before 2021, the new scheduler on Apple.com only shows a week at a time, and it's constantly booked up.


----------



## Clix Pix

I keep checking the online Apple store each day in hopes of eventually finding an M1 MBP with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB storage available in the store but so far no luck.  I know I could order one but current shipping indicates that I wouldn't get it until mid January.   I can wait until the initial excitement dies down.  They'll be available in the stores' inventory eventually.  I just prefer to go to the store and buy it then.


----------



## Eric

Clix Pix said:


> I keep checking the online Apple store each day in hopes of eventually finding an M1 MBP with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB storage available in the store but so far no luck.  I know I could order one but current shipping indicates that I wouldn't get it until mid January.   I can wait until the initial excitement dies down.  They'll be available in the stores' inventory eventually.  I just prefer to go to the store and buy it then.



I have to tell you running mine with 8 GB on the M1 has been awesome. I run both PS and LR and it's lightning fast even running through the Rosetta layer. Most of the images I'm processing are from my 26 megapixel camera, many of which are HDR and/or stacked as well and not so much as a hiccup. It outperforms my 2017 iMac with 16 GB RAM by a mile.


----------



## DT

Yeah, the wife used hers pretty much all day yesterday, like "general computing" chores, mail, browser, messages, some organizing in photos, cleaning up contacts, etc.  Took it off the charger at ~9a, and at around 9p, that's __12__hours__ later, the battery indicated 70%.


----------



## Clix Pix

One reason I would go with a machine with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD storage is that I am dealing primarily with files from my A7R IV, which has 61 MP.....and I shoot RAW, uncompressed.   Even though I'm not planing to do a lot of processing/editing on the M1 machine when I finally get one, I still want to be able to do so when/if the occasion arises.    From the look of things my guess right now is that I probably won't get my hands on one of these for a while yet, but I can wait......


----------



## Eric

Clix Pix said:


> One reason I would go with a machine with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD storage is that I am dealing primarily with files from my A7R IV, which has 61 MP.....and I shoot RAW, uncompressed.   Even though I'm not planing to do a lot of processing/editing on the M1 machine when I finally get one, I still want to be able to do so when/if the occasion arises.    From the look of things my guess right now is that I probably won't get my hands on one of these for a while yet, but I can wait......



Wow 61 MP? That would be unusable on my iMac, as it is it takes 1 to 2 minutes to open a raw file at 24 MP when starting the app. You definitely have a good use case for waiting.


----------



## Clix Pix

Back in late 2018 I started thinking ahead.....I knew that I was going to be getting something new in the way of camera gear, although at that point I was still undecided about exactly what, and I also knew that I needed to improve on the tools I was using for editing, as back then I was still desperately clinging to the beloved Aperture.   So while I was still wrestling with decisions about camera stuff I at least had a good idea of what would be needed for me to move forward photographically when it came to a computer.....   In early December of 2018 I purchased the machine I'm now using the 2018 MBP with 32 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD storage, an i9 with plenty of processing power, plus the then-newly announced Vega 20 additional/discrete graphics card.  I love this machine and she has absolutely come through for me, time after time after time!  

Not quite a year after that I was finally ready to make the decision about my photography gear and took the leap from years of Nikon to going with the Sony system, purchasing the A7R IV with its incredible resolution and large files.   I knew that for the kinds of things I like to shoot the high resolution would be invaluable, plus would offer great croppability when needed as well.   Over the past year  I've had to buy more external drives, though, in order to deal with the increased space needed for backups and such, but that's OK.....   My delightful 2018 MBP handles the files and the various editing programs with aplomb, so that's a help!  

The replacement for this machine of course will not be the initial M1 MBP, but rather whatever Apple brings us next, in the form of an MBP with four ports (I need those ports!) plus the possibility of 32 GB RAM, etc., etc.    I figure that the M1 will serve as a great introduction to the whole new "System-on-a-Chip" setup plus give me the portability that I enjoy and a lot perkier performance than my lovely little 12" MacBook is able to provide....  Since I'm not traveling anywhere right now anyway, no urgency on getting something new, as both my machines are working just fine (knock on wood!).    (Ah, OK, to be honest, I just wanna play with one of the new machines!!)


----------



## Yoused

I would be interested to know if Celestia can be made to run on M1, and how well.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Yeah, the wife used hers pretty much all day yesterday, like "general computing" chores, mail, browser, messages, some organizing in photos, cleaning up contacts, etc.  Took it off the charger at ~9a, and at around 9p, that's __12__hours__ later, the battery indicated 70%.




Still has not been plugged in, hahaha, WTSF, this is crazy insane 



Yoused said:


> I would be interested to know if Celestia can be made to run on M1, and how well.




I'll check it out ...


----------



## DT

Installing through the app store ...


----------



## DT

Seems like it runs great, I set a destination out to Jupiter and it was super fast and smooth!

Anyway specific you want me to do in the app?


----------



## DT

BTW, I did __not__ see a Rosetta message during the install, maybe it's already native?

[edit]

Not sure if you do see the Rosetta prompt every time, __however__ under About >> System >> Software, Celestia is listed as Universal, meaning it contains both an Intel and AS binaries (vs. something like Pixelmator which is running pre-processed by Rosetta during install, and indicates just Intel).

Cool.


----------



## Yoused

DT said:


> Anyway specific you want me to do in the app?



No, I just wanted to know if it worked. You might be amused to know, if it means anything to you, that it has Larry Niven's ringworld – just do a name search. Pretty cool.


----------



## DT

Oh neat, yeah, it looked like a really fun app, I'll have to spend some more time with it, er, if the wife lets me use her machine 

(I realize I can install it on mine, in fact, I'm curious about the graphics speed difference, so I may do just that ...)


----------



## JayMysteri0

Saw on MR that Adorama got some 16gb 512gb SSD Macbook Airs IN STOCK.  So grabbed a credit card that hasn't seen the light of day for awhile and ordered one.  Supposedly it's getting shipped today,  it gets here tomorrow.


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> Saw on MR that Adorama got some 16gb 512gb SSD Macbook Airs IN STOCK.  So grabbed a credit card that hasn't seen the light of day for awhile and ordered one.  Supposedly it's getting shipped today,  it gets here tomorrow.




I saw that post, hopped over to Adorama, could've scored one (they were even $50 discounted), asked the wife if she wanted a replacement, she was like, nah, it works perfect, this plenty for me. 

I'm waiting on the 32GB/4-port M1X with 16/16 cores model Mini Pro ...


----------



## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> I saw that post, hopped over to Adorama, could've scored one (they were even $50 discounted), asked the wife if she wanted a replacement, she was like, nah, it works perfect, this plenty for me.
> 
> I'm waiting on the 32GB/4-port M1X with 16/16 cores model Mini Pro ...



I only did it, because it sounded as if they would have it out and to you by Christmas.  Any 16GB models I've seen, all say they won't go out the door until mid Jan.  I was going to trade in a very old 12in Macbook Air, my 2015 MBP, & my original iPP that no one but me wants to Best Buy to knock a 3rd off the price.  In that case I was looking at only base 8GB models, so I went with Adorama.  Hopefully I will get it this weekend.

Update:  Just got an email from UPS saying a package is coming tomorrow.


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> I only did it, because it sounded as if they would have it out and to you by Christmas.  Any 16GB models I've seen, all say they won't go out the door until mid Jan.  I was going to trade in a very old 12in Macbook Air, my 2015 MBP, & my original iPP that no one but me wants to Best Buy to knock a 3rd off the price.  In that case I was looking at only base 8GB models, so I went with Adorama.  Hopefully I will get it this weekend.
> 
> Update:  Just got an email from UPS saying a package is coming tomorrow.





It's a killer machine, if I was buying another machine that's the config I'd get.  I'm just generally blown away by the CPU, GPU, battery performance on the M1 machines.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Opening it up tomorrow.

Forgot how small these things were.

This weekend it will be accessory buying time.  I need a case so I can sticker bomb the hell out of this thing.


----------



## Clix Pix

AIEEEEEE!!!!!!!  Aw, please don't crap up your lovely new machine with a bunch of stickers plastered all over it!  UGH!!!!   Steve would NOT approve!!!!


----------



## Yoused

JayMysteri0 said:


>





> Opening it up *tomorrow*.



What is _wrong_ with you? _Nobody_ has that kind of self control. Seek help.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Clix Pix said:


> AIEEEEEE!!!!!!!  Aw, please don't crap up your lovely new machine with a bunch of stickers plastered all over it!  UGH!!!!   Steve would NOT approve!!!!



Steve might not have approved, but the crowd that helped make Apple computers popular would.

I don't want ANOTHER in an endless line of same old same old that everyone else has.  You buy a case for your expensive investment, so it just looks like another nameless machine, then... you find that Apple sticker that came in the box!  Suddenly your encased investment is an Apple computer again, but it's just another one...  Why stop there?   You have this case on it, protecting your investment, no stickers on it, but on the case?   Ooooooh ho ho!

It's time to make yo' shit, yo' shit!!  





_My old iPad Pro case until the edges holding the iPP in cracked & broke off, and I moved to the Apple Keyboard cases._

...and I got a whole drawer of my shit, to make MY shit MINE!  





On the random chance I ever have to fool someone I'm a professional, I've just pulled the case off temporarily and no one is the wiser.  Suckers!

The fact that now iTunes cards are colorful Apple stickers, just reinforces my joy!





Woo Hoo!!  



Yoused said:


> What is _wrong_ with you? _Nobody_ has that kind of self control. Seek help.



All in the effort to maintain the excitement of opening really cool stuff ON Christmas day.

After years of getting socks, shirts, and other boring practical stuff on Christmas day to open, I've learned to save that thing you're really excited about for the day itself.


----------



## Yoused

We were traveling, a road trip that added up to eight thousand miles and some fifty motel rooms. At some point, I looked around the room that we were checking out of and saw that I was about to forget my iPad mini, lying almost unnoticeable on the nightstand in its black case. That is when I decided to stop at a nearby Blicks to get an acrylic paint set to use on the case.



Spoiler: camouflage


----------



## lizkat

I have occasionally misplaced an iPad mini too by setting it somewhere without its red cover.

Back in the day of white iPods,  I daydreamed about shipping one off to ColorWare, the outfit that used to paint them one of dozens of colors offered.    "Taxi Yellow" would have been my choice about November in the grey of the Northeast, and in fact when the XR iPhone came out I was pedal to the metal to order the yellow one.  Not taxi yellow but sunflower or something, anyway it's still my favorite.

Back in 2017 ColorWare expanded its menu,  offering to paint Apple earpods and cases.   

Mind you all that comes at a hefty premium.  Your idea for your iPad mini was definitely more practical!


----------



## Yoused

well, and it was more fun


----------



## lizkat

Clix Pix said:


> AIEEEEEE!!!!!!!  Aw, please don't crap up your lovely new machine with a bunch of stickers plastered all over it!  UGH!!!!   Steve would NOT approve!!!!




Steve wouldn't have approved of the language I used when grabbing the wrong one of a matched pair of mid-2012 MacBook Pros either.  Finally resorted to putting a row of the smallest Apple stickers on one of them.  Problem solved.

I admit the unadorned 2020 MacBook Air looks pretty classy just as it came from the box.  Still I have admired the panache that a few of my younger kinfolk have lent to their laptops with a slew of stickers.   "Nothing is sacred if it's going to be toast in a couple years anyway" is how one of them put it. 

Anyway one of them reminded me that I used to decorate my older iPods with assorted iSkin decal-type offerings and switch them up once in a while.  Those things even came with matching skins for the clickwheels.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Yoused said:


> What is _wrong_ with you? _Nobody_ has that kind of self control. Seek help.



Update:  As of 5PM EST, I still have NOT opened the box.

I may go until tomorrow.  HA!  

Probably not though...


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> Update:  As of 5PM EST, I still have NOT opened the box.
> 
> I may go until tomorrow.  HA!
> 
> Probably not though...




After all that, I hope the thing actually boots...


----------



## Clix Pix

Much to my surprise today when I went on the apple.com Apple store website, the 13" M1 MBP with 1 TB SSD and 16 GB RAM was actually available, really and truly in the local store's inventory!!!  WOW!!  After I got over my initial surprise and shock I promptly ordered one, and about an hour and a half later it arrived, courtesy of Apple's local courier service!!!   I promptly unboxed it but haven't actually taken off the protective plastic on the machine itself, as I wasn't ready to set her up yet.  Had a few things to do this afternoon and evening so tomorrow will be the time for playing with the newest member of the family.    In the meantime, she's sitting in her box and I smile at her as I walk by.....      Such fun to have a new machine in the house!


----------



## JayMysteri0

lizkat said:


> After all that, I hope the thing actually boots...



Yes, it booted.   





A case from Apple's Express pickup, which isn't so express, was also acquired.






Sticker bombing will commence when I finally make a few decisions.


----------



## Clix Pix

I am loving my new machine but am still in the process of setting everything up and making a few new discoveries along the way.....  at the time Big Sur was released  I remember seeing mention of the wonderful Apple Chime once again being part of the boot up process but didn't hear it on either of my older machines and kind of forgot about it, or vaguely thought maybe it was only on the new M1 machines. So today at some point it occurs to me that, hey, I didn't hear the boot up chime on this new machine....    After much experimentation and rebooting of the 2018 machine and getting nowhere, then listening to the new machine as she booted up, I finally heard it.....kinda/sorta.  In the old days I could hear the boot up chime on my machines without my hearing aids, no problem.  Not so these days!  I can only hear it faintly on the new machine and have yet to hear it on the older one without my aids, but of course with the aids I do hear it on both machines.   I am guessing that either Apple has done something with controlling the volume on their machines now and/or they have changed the pitch of the chime sound so that it happens to fall in a range which is not optimal for me without amplification through my sound processors.    Whatever.  I'm just happy that they've brought back the chime, even if I won't always be able to hear it!

I am also still becoming accustomed to using Touch ID on this new machine, and I thought that this would mean that I wouldn't need to type in my password each and every time when the machine first boots up?  Somehow that isn't the case so I'm still trying to tinker with settings, in case I have overlooked something.  I don't want to give up Touch ID because I do like the idea of having Apple Pay readily available on this machine.  I think now, though, I will not bother setting it up and not use it on my older 2018 machine.  That machine goes right to my desktop without needing me to log in first and I am spoiled by that.

This machine is gorgeous!  Love the screen -- beautiful, bright colors -- and love the keyboard, which is much nicer than the one on my 12" MacBook, and of course I love how speedy this thing is.  She IS fast -- not sure yet if she's as fast as her big sister, the  15" 2018with the i9 and 32 GB of RAM, but she sure seems to be coming pretty darned close, and that's amazing.

Sheesh, the desktop wallpaper for Big Sur is UGLY!!!  GARISH!!!!   When I installed Big Sur on my two older machines I barely caught a glimpse of the default wallpaper because my own wallpaper immediately went into position as always.    Now with this new machine, until I get the folder with some of my photos that I use for wallpaper and screen savers  hastily installed in here, I'm stuck with the default wallpaper.  Good motivation to install my photos tonight so I can set up my desktop and screen savers as I prefer to see them!

Oh, and speaking of stickers, as we were.....so happy to see the cute little Space Grey Apple stickers which accompanied my new machine!  At the moment they're with my ever-growing collection of Apple stickers but at some point they may find a home -- not necessarily on an Apple product but somewhere else!   I used to have a rainbow Apple logo sticker on my Acura, as well as a white Apple logo sticker, but with the new car I haven't found a good place for stickers yet.  The bumper is very different than on my old car.


----------



## Eric

JayMysteri0 said:


> Yes, it booted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A case from Apple's Express pickup, which isn't so express, was also acquired.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sticker bombing will commence when I finally make a few decisions.



Side note: Glad you shared this I spotted a couple of things that needed to be fixed on the Discord color scheme.


----------



## lizkat

Clix Pix said:


> Now with this new machine, until I get the folder with some of my photos that I use for wallpaper and screen savers hastily installed in here, I'm stuck with the default wallpaper. Good motivation to install my photos tonight so I can set up my desktop and screen savers as I prefer to see them!




Hah, I remember setting up one laptop and not even waiting to bring over wallpapers and photos, went straight to a browser and started clipping out little something-or-others to stick in the center of  a plain background.   How I ended up with this thing for instance,  some coffee cans used as planters on a patio!




I was desperate.  I would have pasted up a clip of a jar of salsa.  Can't remember which OS had wallpapers that grossed me out so much but your note made laugh to remember it.


----------



## Yoused

lizkat said:


> … I would have pasted up a clip of a jar of salsa …



Yeah, not too sure about that idea. Every time you quit an app, you want chips or something. Not so good for the waistline.


----------



## lizkat

Yoused said:


> Yeah, not too sure about that idea. Every time you quit an app, you want chips or something. Not so good for the waistline.




Hmm.   So *that's *how that happened. I did have a clip of a jar of Ortega on one of my desktop spaces for awhile. 

Sorry to derail this thread.  Imma stop now:   THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT desktop wallpapers, nor my weight either.


----------



## Clix Pix

Still tinkering with various setup things.....at least I've now got my own beloved desktop wallpaper and screen savers in place!  Whew....  Makes a HUGE difference and makes me feel more at home with the machine, too, since now her desktop wallpaper looks like the others....

Got my wonderful Forecast Bar app installed now, too, so I can at a glance see what the temperature is, and with a click check out the upcoming weather predictions.  

It's a whole new adventure, setting up a machine now, since a lot of things have changed since I last did this!


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Actually, it doesn't look like I'll be able to get it scheduled before 2021, the new scheduler on Apple.com only shows a week at a time, and it's constantly booked up.





Woohoo!  Looks like appointments are starting to open up.  I specifically avoided a few available weekend spots, but I'll start checking this early/late to get the old MBP in for the <whatever_happens> appointment.

We were gone a couple of days last week, and my paranoia got the best of me, so I stick it in the small recycle tub kind of in an isolated area in the garage, er, in case it exploded ...


----------



## Yoused

DT said:


> I stick it in the small recycle tub kind of in an isolated area in the garage, er, in case it exploded ...



You really got to get that Digitizer working. It is no good having things materializing inside out all the time.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Just a small personal note about how small the M1 Macbooks are.

I have a Waterfield Designs Sutter Tech sling bag that I love. It's designed for the 13in Macbooks & 12.9 iPad Pros.  With the new Magic Keyboard for the 12.9 iPad Pros though, the iPP doesn't fit into it's designated sleeve.  The Macbook Air though WITH case, slides in easily. 





Nice little portable machine if we are able to travel about again.





https://www.sfbags.com/collections/slings/products/tech-sling-bag


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> Just a small personal note about how small the M1 Macbooks are.
> 
> I have a Waterfield Designs Sutter Tech sling bag that I love. It's designed for the 13in Macbooks & 12.9 iPad Pros.  With the new Magic Keyboard for the 12.9 iPad Pros though, the iPP doesn't fit into it's designated sleeve.  The Macbook Air though WITH case, slides in easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice little portable machine if we are able to travel about again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.sfbags.com/collections/slings/products/tech-sling-bag


----------



## Clix Pix

I have a 13" InCase sleeve that I used with my 13" 2013 MBP and my 13" 2015 MBP so I know that I'm all set, my new M1 13" MBP should fit very nicely, too.....  Haven't tried it yet, though.  Methinks it'll be a while before this new baby gets to leave the house and go on a trip with me!


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Woohoo!  Looks like appointments are starting to open up.  I specifically avoided a few available weekend spots, but I'll start checking this early/late to get the old MBP in for the <whatever_happens> appointment.
> 
> We were gone a couple of days last week, and my paranoia got the best of me, so I stick it in the small recycle tub kind of in an isolated area in the garage, er, in case it exploded ...




Woo!  Appointments available ...





... but I'll wait.  I'd rather toss this machine in the river than deal with the Town Center on the weekend.  Especially with the nice weather, and it's open air, I imagine it will be a Charlie Foxtrot.


----------



## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> Woo!  Appointments available ...
> 
> View attachment 2901
> 
> ... but I'll wait.  I'd rather toss this machine in the river than deal with the Town Center on the weekend.  Especially with the nice weather, and it's open air, I imagine it will be a Charlie Foxtrot.



Is that Jacksonville?

I still cringe from my two years growing up there.


----------



## User.45

Any of you guys willing to do some benchmarking for me? It takes the download of a research software and I provide a bash script to be run... I'm really curious whether A) it's gonna run and B) how it would fare against a desktop...


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> Is that Jacksonville?
> 
> I still cringe from my two years growing up there.




Ugh, yes, the Southside.  The Town Center is "nice" as far as malls go, high-er-ish end, outside, a couple of pretty good places to eat, but in general, bleah ... it's just the "local" Apple store location.

We're about 30-35 minutes south of there, along the east coast.  It's a nice drive up A1A right along the coast, then you hit Ponte Vedra, traffic, then JTB, it just gets worse ...




P_X said:


> Any of you guys willing to do some benchmarking for me? It takes the download of a research software and I provide a bash script to be run... I'm really curious whether A) it's gonna run and B) how it would fare against a desktop...




Sure!  I even handle Fed PII and deal with HIPAA compliance, so I'm data safe


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> Ugh, yes, the Southside.  The Town Center is "nice" as far as malls go, high-er-ish end, outside, a couple of pretty good places to eat, but in general, bleah ... it's just the "local" Apple store location.
> 
> We're about 30-35 minutes south of there, along the east coast.  It's a nice drive up A1A right along the coast, then you hit Ponte Vedra, traffic, then JTB, it just gets worse ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure!  I even handle Fed PII and deal with HIPPA compliance, so I'm data safe



That makes for one happy HIPAA


----------



## DT

I mean, technically it's the wife's machine, but she __might__ let me use it if I ask nicely 

FWIW, she loves it, and has gone back to mostly "undocked" use since it's super light and lasts for [literally] days on battery.

[edit]

**oops** double P'ed on the name, corrected.  Funny, when I started doing medical/clinical related work and had to deal with data protection, file compliance specifics in implementation, I started getting really sensitive to how badly it's handled in so many offices, online, etc.


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> I mean, technically it's the wife's machine, but she __might__ let me use it if I ask nicely
> 
> FWIW, she loves it, and has gone back to mostly "undocked" use since it's super light and lasts for [literally] days on battery.
> 
> [edit]
> 
> **oops** double P'ed on the name, corrected.  Funny, when I started doing medical/clinical related work and had to deal with data protection, file compliance specifics in implementation, I started getting really sensitive to how badly it's handled in so many offices, online, etc.



HIPAA is a double edged sword. On one end, the quickest way to end your medical career is a HIPAA violation. On the other hand it often makes patient care more tedious than it should be.

The most awkward thing however is when I bump into a patient in an elevator or hallway (pre-COVID), I'm like very very careful not to give away ANY info about them, and then they start talking to me loudly about their medical issues. It's not that I don't understand they don't mind discussing it in a public space, but I still have to _appear_ compliant. (The solution is to tell them to discuss it in a different setting, but it's awkward no matter how you diffuse it).


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> Just a small personal note about how small the M1 Macbooks are.
> 
> I have a Waterfield Designs Sutter Tech sling bag that I love. It's designed for the 13in Macbooks & 12.9 iPad Pros.  With the new Magic Keyboard for the 12.9 iPad Pros though, the iPP doesn't fit into it's designated sleeve.  The Macbook Air though WITH case, slides in easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice little portable machine if we are able to travel about again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.sfbags.com/collections/slings/products/tech-sling-bag



I love sling bags but it's nearly impossible to find a good one. The trick is the buckle...designers don't understand that LARGE buckles are much easier to handle when there is weight in the backpack than the tiny ones


----------



## JayMysteri0

P_X said:


> I love sling bags but it's nearly impossible to find a good one. The trick is the buckle...designers don't understand that LARGE buckles are much easier to handle when there is weight in the backpack than the tiny ones



I haven't had an issue with the buckle size.  They use the design that allows for easy one hand adjustments.  One finger in the latch, and you can slide it up or down easily.  So I've adjusted based on how heavy with no problems.







> One-handed cam lock buckle - lets you quickly adjust how the bag rests against your body without moving it.


----------



## Renzatic

I switched over to Linux the other day, and I'm thinking about staying here. It has everything I need, generally works better, and is swooft as all get out.

The only two things I'm missing are my Affinity programs, and I'm thinking about buying an MBA to use those on the side.

Also, just to see if I could do it, I made things look surprisingly close to Mac OS. All I'm missing is the global menu bar, and the transparency effects, both of which I can set up, but I'm not gonna bother with it.


----------



## User.45

Renzatic said:


> I switched over to Linux the other day, and I'm thinking about staying here. It has everything I need, generally works better, and is swooft as all get out.
> 
> The only two things I'm missing are my Affinity programs, and I'm thinking about buying an MBA to use those on the side.
> 
> Also, just to see if I could do it, I made things look surprisingly close to Mac OS. All I'm missing is the global menu bar, and the transparency effects, both of which I can set up, but I'm not gonna bother with it.View attachment 3121



I generally love linux, but where the differences lie is that I was never ever able to break MacOs. I break my ubuntu setup every 2months. Every update fucks up CUDA and my nvidia drivers. Battery management and standby mode may also be less efficient. Lastly, MacOs’ RAM management is far superior. I use a 60Gb swap file on a pci ssd because my 16gb ram always dips into the swap. Never an issue on my Mac running the same software .


----------



## Renzatic

P_X said:


> I generally love linux, but where the differences lie is that I was never ever able to break MacOs. I break my ubuntu setup every 2months. Every update fucks up CUDA and my nvidia drivers. Battery management and standby mode may also be less efficient. Lastly, MacOs’ RAM management is far superior. I use a 60Gb swap file on a pci ssd because my 16gb ram always dips into the swap. Never an issue on my Mac running the same software .




Mac OS has always had superior memory management compared to the other OSes, but I've never had much trouble out of either Windows or Linux on that front. I've had Substance Painter, Designer, and Blender all running in the background in Linux, all very memory intensive programs, and I've never had it dip into more than a gig into my 8GB swap partition.

I've never had all that much luck with Ubuntu though. That's why I'm using Pop OS, which is basically Ubuntu, but with out of the box Nvidia support, and a ton of other under the hood tweaks that seem to make it run better for me than Ubuntu ever did.


----------



## User.45

Renzatic said:


> Mac OS has always had superior memory management compared to the other OSes, but I've never had much trouble out of either Windows or Linux on that front. I've had Substance Painter, Designer, and Blender all running in the background in Linux, all very memory intensive programs, and I've never had it dip into more than a gig into my 8GB swap partition.
> 
> I've never had all that much luck with Ubuntu though. That's why I'm using Pop OS, which is basically Ubuntu, but with out of the box Nvidia support, and a ton of other under the hood tweaks that seem to make it run better for me than Ubuntu ever did.



My issue is that it's RedHat/Ubuntu for which my research software are written, so I never was excited to invest in other versions...Setting this up take half a day and if it fails, it eats up a weekend.


----------



## Renzatic

P_X said:


> My issue is that it's RedHat/Ubuntu for which my research software are written, so I never was excited to invest in other versions...Setting this up take half a day and if it fails, it eats up a weekend.




Pop is a Ubuntu fork, so anything that works there will work in it.

Really, all Linux distros can run any Linux based program, even ones specifically designed for other distros. It's a pain in the ass sometimes, but it can be done!


----------



## User.45

Renzatic said:


> Pop is a Ubuntu fork, so anything that works there will work in it.
> 
> Really, all Linux distros can run any Linux based program, even ones specifically designed for other distros. It's a pain in the ass sometimes, but it can be done!



At the end of the day, I'm a clinician. The last thing I should do is troubleshooting Linux


----------



## Renzatic

P_X said:


> At the end of the day, I'm a clinician. The last thing I should do is troubleshooting Linux




Well, you know, whatever works for you.


----------



## DT

Renzatic said:


> The only two things I'm missing are my Affinity programs, and I'm thinking about buying an MBA to use those on the side.




I guess my question is - outside of just tinkering for fun - what is more compelling about Linux __if__ you still have a requirement for apps that are only present on MacOS?

Personally, I love MacOS, it gives me the *NIX underpinnings, a beautiful hardware package, that has an actual support channel (including local support, er, kind of at the moment ... ) AND it combines all that with a pretty respectable commercial software market (which is kind of your situation above).


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> I guess my question is - outside of just tinkering for fun - what is more compelling about Linux __if__ you still have a requirement for apps that are only present on MacOS?
> 
> Personally, I love MacOS, it gives me the *NIX underpinnings, a beautiful hardware package, that has an actual support channel (including local support, er, kind of at the moment ... ) AND it combines all that with a pretty respectable commercial software market (which is kind of your situation above).




Here's my screwed up, no one-size-fits-all situation.

I have 5 programs that I use regularly, Blender, Substance Painter, Substance Designer, Affinity Photo, and Affinity Designer. Three of them, Blender and the Substance suite, are available in Linux, and run a little better there.

I could use all 5 in Windows, but I'm rather tired of Windows. I can navigate, organize, and tailor things better in Linux than I can there.

I could use all 5 on a Mac, but since Apple doesn't use Nvidia cards, and the Blender Foundation doesn't have any plans to support Metal beyond the bare basics, Getting a higher end Mac will mean I'm spending a lot of money for a machine that won't give me the most bang for my buck.

So switching to Linux and settling Inkscape and Krita instead of Affinity Designer and Photo is the better overall option for me at the moment. Since I usually like having a laptop handy, getting a more entry level Mac for Designer and Photo, which don't require the fastest hardware in the world to run, and pairing it with a Linux desktop might be my better option.

....so there.


----------



## DT

That makes a ton of sense, especially if you're getting good (i.e., much better) GPU performance in Blender (by way of NVIDIA support in your setup).

"_Tired of Windows_", yeah, I'm ready to jettison Winders™ as a local development VM and move to a M1<something> machine when they're ready with a 16-24 core machine, probably another Mini. I'm hoping to go to native VS for development, with server services, running in the cloud (I already do that for Oracle development).


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> That makes a ton of sense, especially if you're getting good (i.e., much better) GPU performance in Blender (by way of NVIDIA support in your setup).




I wish I could go all Mac, especially now that these new M1 chips are showing their strengths, but there's _always something_ that ends up holding me back.

Splitting the difference is the best way to go, I think. Kinda wish I did it a few years back, actually. But no, I had to get that Surface Pro 4...


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Woo!  Appointments available ...
> 
> View attachment 2901
> 
> ... but I'll wait.  I'd rather toss this machine in the river than deal with the Town Center on the weekend.  Especially with the nice weather, and it's open air, I imagine it will be a Charlie Foxtrot.




Appointment tomorrow!  Fingers crossed for a new machine, but if at the very least, I get this machine fixed up, I'm good with that too 

DT


----------



## DT

Er, I guess I'll take off the carbon skin[?]  I love it, but I figured instead of anything that could lead to a "This caused thermal issues ..." situation, it's better safe than sorry (and this machine might not even return anyway ...).

I got a call from them, kind of doing a pre-appointment walk-through, they said it's more or less just a drop off,  probably a couple of days to check it out.  I mean, when they see it, it'll be pretty obvious


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> Er, I guess I'll take off the carbon skin[?]  I love it, but I figured instead of anything that could lead to a "This caused thermal issues ..." situation, it's better safe than sorry (and this machine might not even return anyway ...).
> 
> I got a call from them, kind of doing a pre-appointment walk-through, they said it's more or less just a drop off,  probably a couple of days to check it out.  I mean, when they see it, it'll be pretty obvious



What?! Your M1 broke already?!


----------



## DT

P_X said:


> What?! Your M1 broke already?!




Oh, yikes, no, this was (the original story is a few pages back), a 2015 MBP 15", purchased new in early '16, that was under the battery extended repair policy (AC ran out in '19).  It had pretty severe battery swelling that I wasn't even aware of - basically it was being used in a stand, did seem to have some thermal issues (non-stop fans) so I wanted to get the new M1 for the wife, had planned on trading or selling the MBP, had no idea it was swollen (I only noticed it because a potential buyer asked for pics, and I was like W_T_F.

So I __finally__ got a mid-week Apple appointment (they've been non-existent, or only available on the weekends), and it was been dropped off, yay!

Unfortunately, they didn't hint at all about a full machine replacement (to a new spec machine), just seemed to be all in on repair.  With the current situation, it was a dropoff, and I told them no rush, so who knows, when they a full evaluation on it, maybe it'll be a "no repair / replace" sort of thing   Will be several days, probably won't hear back till late next week.


----------



## DT

BTW, if the security handling entry into the Apple Store had been at the Capitol building, nobody would've gotten in, JFC, dial it back, I'm dropping off a computer ...


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> BTW, if the security handling entry into the Apple Store had been at the Capitol building, nobody would've gotten in, JFC, dial it back, I'm dropping off a computer ...



Tim Apple must have gotten threats


----------



## SuperMatt

P_X said:


> Tim Apple must have gotten threats



He is a racist, after all... (according to MR forums)


----------



## User.45

SuperMatt said:


> He is a racist, after all... (according to MR forums)



I suspect homophobic too. /s


----------



## DT

Apple computers are part of the gay agenda.


----------



## DT

Oh, the Apple Store had actually moved to a new location in the mall, it's like twice as big, but in "Covid mode" it had a huge, white, corrugated divider, so it was like 6 shielded windows (like bank tellers ...) and a small area behind them.


----------



## Pumbaa

DT said:


> Apple computers are part of the gay agenda.



Obviously, just look at that rainbow logo Apple had for almost two decades! But nowadays they’re just mainstreaming with those racist single-colored logos. #NotMyApple

Still would like to get my hands on some Apple Silicon stuff. Mostly monitoring people’s experiences with M1 for now, patiently awaiting future releases.


----------



## DT

Pumbaa said:


> Obviously, just look at that rainbow logo Apple had for almost two decades! But nowadays they’re just mainstreaming with those racist single-colored logos. #NotMyApple
> 
> Still would like to get my hands on some Apple Silicon stuff. Mostly monitoring people’s experiences with M1 for now, patiently awaiting future releases.




I got the one (M1) machine since I knew the very specific use case for my wife - mostly "bundled" apps, no dev work, no VMs.  I figured it was a good way to get some experience with it, while having very little potential for negative impact, er, I mean, as long as it starts, runs a browser, email, messages, it's 99.9% usable.

I've got a lingering need for Winders, but I'm slowly starting to test some alternatives vs. running a local VM. For server-services, assuming I don't want those all running on remote/cloud services, that's as simple as setting up a couple of dev boxes with IIS/SQL, I used to do that, heck, this was probably the only house is a large radius with a rack/rackmounted servers in a closet


----------



## Pumbaa

DT said:


> I got the one (M1) machine since I knew the very specific use case for my wife - mostly "bundled" apps, no dev work, no VMs.  I figured it was a good way to get some experience with it, while having very little potential for negative impact, er, I mean, as long as it starts, runs a browser, email, messages, it's 99.9% usable.
> 
> I've got a lingering need for Winders, but I'm slowly starting to test some alternatives vs. running a local VM. For server-services, assuming I don't want those all running on remote/cloud services, that's as simple as setting up a couple of dev boxes with IIS/SQL, I used to do that, heck, this was probably the only house is a large radius with a rack/rackmounted servers in a closet



My main perceived issues with the M1 offerings so far is the lack of ports and the limited maximum RAM size. The machines seem great for what they are: awesome entry-level machines. I would probably be happy with a mini, but...

Software maturity and availability is another concern. I remain optimistic, people are working towards stable releases for Apple Silicon in most cases. With some luck, there will be even better Apple hardware to buy when the stable releases are here.


----------



## Clix Pix

One thing I really appreciate about my M1 MBP is that second port, which I do not have on my  12" MacBook, which until the day I got the M1 was my "secondary" machine as well as my travel machine.  It's still my travel machine.   So today I was keeping the 15" MBP busy with transferring/copying data between two external drives and there was something I really needed to check on another external drive.  The last time this happened I simply had to wait until the 15" MBP was finished and I could check.  Today, to my distinct pleasure, I didn't have to wait, I  could simply grab the drive and plug it into the second port on my M1 and see what I needed to see, do what I needed to do.


----------



## thekev

DT said:


> Apple computers are part of the gay agenda.




I would have gone with "Real men run Debian," although I suppose you could run that on Apple's machines.


----------



## SuperMatt

DT said:


> Apple computers are part of the gay agenda.



That rainbow logo


----------



## ronntaylor

DT said:


> BTW, if the security handling entry into the Apple Store had been at the Capitol building, nobody would've gotten in, JFC, dial it back, I'm dropping off a computer ...



We went to drop off an old MBA for recycling at the 5th Avenue store. Long, snaking line. Two additional security checks, and more employees than customers once we finally got inside. Went to the 14th Street location when the hubby's new M1 MBA flaked out in the transferring process. Just as bad with at least three checkpoints. Also silly as walkup purchasing customers got in faster than those with issues to be resolved.


----------



## DT

3.0.0
					

Today I’d like to announce Homebrew 3.0.0. The most significant changes since 2.7.0 are official Apple Silicon support and a new bottle format in formulae.




					brew.sh


----------



## DT

DT said:


> So I __finally__ got a mid-week Apple appointment (they've been non-existent, or only available on the weekends), and it was been dropped off, yay!
> 
> Unfortunately, they didn't hint at all about a full machine replacement (to a new spec machine), just seemed to be all in on repair.  With the current situation, it was a dropoff, and I told them no rush, so who knows, when they a full evaluation on it, maybe it'll be a "no repair / replace" sort of thing   Will be several days, probably won't hear back till late next week.




They actually called on Sunday and I picked it up today, repair was done so I guess no free upgrade 

Looks brand new, they replace the top plate which includes the keyboard and  trackpad and the one tiny ding was also on that part. Battery showing as 104% of original spec with zero cycles. 

Did a fresh install of Big Sur, a few tools like Xcode, running great, I may use it - or trade it - or heck, now sell it, I had great offers before this repair.


----------



## Pumbaa

Look what you made me do, you meanies! I ordered a Mac Mini.

Updated reviews indicated that 16GiB at least as of today will get me my final cutting fix and stuff. More memory would have made me feel more relaxed about the purchase, but I’ve decided trust those random youtubers I’ve never checked out before. And I am still not happy about the lack of ports, but I’ll make do.

I basically realized that the M1 can handle most of the things I need it to handle and that the things it can’t handle won’t work any better on later models.


----------



## DT

As people may know, I got my 2015 MBP 15" battery replaced, for free, under the extended warranty offered by Apple.  It appears to have been the battery, and all the components on the lower section:  top plate, keyboard, trackpad.  It's basically new, mint.

However, it's still one of the machines where the GPU gets things a little hot, and compared to the wife's M1 MBA, it's not nearly as quick, even with a discrete 370X GPU (granted it's 5 years old ...)

My current trade offer is $570, which I'll swear is $50 more than when I checked before the repair, like Apple may have flagged this machine as fixed, and changed the offer.

In any case, think I'm going to trade it, for another M1 MBA.  The wife has the base machine, so an 8-core CPU, 7-core GPU (aka, 8+7), 8GB RAM, 256 storage, but I think I'm going to upgrade this machine to an 8+8, 16GB RAM, 512GB storage, which with the trade comes out to $879:






That will be a pretty stout machine based on my experience with the existing machine, and give me an M1 development machine for the road if that ever becomes a thing again.  Originally, I was thinking I'd wait and trade for a second gen M1 machine of some sort, but it sounds like those machines won't be released till much later this year, and while the trade for the '15 machine is decent, and it hasn't melted down, I figured, this was good timing


----------



## Clix Pix

Go for it!   Sounds like a good idea to me!


----------



## DT

Also, the 15" machine was a response to my pretty casual comment to my (at the time) business partner, about traveling to the west coast for some work, "I really need a new machine too".  This machine showed up, brand new at my door - and several months later, when I needed a dedicated, high power Windows notebook: an Aorus 17", I7, 32GB, 8GB GTX1080 GPU, 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD, hahaha, the thing sounded like a 747 when it got under a little stress 

So I figure, I got massive "value" out of this machine over the last few years, since it was sort of a "freebie", so getting nearly $600 for a trade in 2021 is a pretty solid deal.


----------



## Runs For Fun

DT said:


> As people may know, I got my 2015 MBP 15" battery replaced, for free, under the extended warranty offered by Apple.  It appears to have been the battery, and all the components on the lower section:  top plate, keyboard, trackpad.  It's basically new, mint.
> 
> However, it's still one of the machines where the GPU gets things a little hot, and compared to the wife's M1 MBA, it's not nearly as quick, even with a discrete 370X GPU (granted it's 5 years old ...)
> 
> My current trade offer is $570, which I'll swear is $50 more than when I checked before the repair, like Apple may have flagged this machine as fixed, and changed the offer.
> 
> In any case, think I'm going to trade it, for another M1 MBA.  The wife has the base machine, so an 8-core CPU, 7-core GPU (aka, 8+7), 8GB RAM, 256 storage, but I think I'm going to upgrade this machine to an 8+8, 16GB RAM, 512GB storage, which with the trade comes out to $879:
> 
> View attachment 3953
> 
> 
> That will be a pretty stout machine based on my experience with the existing machine, and give me an M1 development machine for the road if that ever becomes a thing again.  Originally, I was thinking I'd wait and trade for a second gen M1 machine of some sort, but it sounds like those machines won't be released till much later this year, and while the trade for the '15 machine is decent, and it hasn't melted down, I figured, this was good timing



Do the upgrade. You'll definitely like the extra RAM.


----------



## DT

As I posted above, I scored a base model MBA M1 for the wife, 8GB RAM, 256GB storage, and it's the model with the 8-core CPU and 7-core GPU ... and it's fast, efficient, just pretty spectacular.

Well, the little G's notebook has been in a downward spiral, it's a neat machine, Lenovo Yoga 15", i7, touchscreen, decent performance, it has a GTX 1050 so moderately perky GPU performance. However, the display got cracked (seriously DO_NOT_ASK ), and the KB has gotten a little fussy - it's also a 256GB SSD and with her art/video projects, space is always an issue - plus, Winder™ ... kill me.

Well, she does her art related work on the iPadPro, with the Pencil, it's way better than the touchscreen experience on the Yoga, so it was time to move her to a Mac, and with the stunning battery life / performance on the M1 machines, I went with another one.  Plus, I wanted a backup mobile machine I could use, so I made it a little more stout.

It's a MBP M1 (P vs. A), 16GB RAM, 512GB storage, and the Pros only have an 8-core GPU.  It also has a decent amount better battery life vs. the Air, which is already spectacular.  I waited for the exact model config (including it being silver, the G's choice ...) to show up as a refurb yesterday, they were in/out/in/out of stock over the week, I kind of gave up for a few days, nothing ... nothing, then boom, a big flood early afternoon, and I scored it on an Apple Card that was 6% discounted through the end of March (yep, the last day).  So the 6% combined with the refurb pricing, resulted in a total of a $345 discount.

Arrives tomorrow.


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> However, the display got cracked (seriously DO_NOT_ASK )...




Now I HAVE to ask.


----------



## DT

Renzatic said:


> Now I HAVE to ask.





Moonshine was involved ...

Not "moonshine", like actual private batch corn whisky.  There were also some broken plates ... one over my own head.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Arrives tomorrow.




It's here, wooooOOooooOOOO ...

Though it's staying boxed until the little G finishes her school work for this week


----------



## Clix Pix

Cool!  Enjoy the new M1 MBP!!!  I love mine -- great little machine, so fast, so cool, so responsive!


----------



## DT

It's very cool, I can't believe the performance and battery life and the little G is loving the touchbar.  Not one hiccup, crash, it just runs nonstop, and I STILL haven't heard the fans kick on ...


----------



## Yoused

DT said:


> … the little G is loving the touchbar …




You are supposed to be using you fingers on the touchbar, man. What is wrong with you?


----------



## DT

OMG.


----------



## Runs For Fun

DT said:


> It's very cool, I can't believe the performance and battery life and the little G is loving the touchbar.  Not one hiccup, crash, it just runs nonstop, and I STILL haven't heard the fans kick on ...



Yeah that battery life is mind blowing. Even on the Air which has a smaller battery than the 13" MBP.


----------



## Clix Pix

I'm loving my M1 MBP!   Yeah, the fact that it remains so cool, no matter what I'm doing on it, still amazes me, as my 2018 MBP gets warm fairly quickly and when I'm doing anything extensive the fans kick in.   Then again, I haven't really done anything THAT extensive on this machine yet, come to think of it.....    I tend to use it when the other machine is busy with backups or transferring data between external drives, etc.


----------



## DT

So for the Apple event this Tuesday, one of the rumors is a new iMac, with neato colors, trim bezels (suggestions are it will be like an iPad Pro on a stand ...).

Assuming these will be AS/ARM based, but I'm wondering if it will be the same proc in the MBP and Mini?  A faster clock?  Or even more magical, some kind of new variant, i.e., an M1X with more than 8 cores for the CPU and/or GPU ... ? Possibly with new RAM capacity!  More ports!

My gut tell me a new display tech, with a nice new physical design, but effectively a Mini All-in-One (in terms of performance / capacity).


----------



## SuperMatt

The graphic in their announcement looks similar to past iPad announcements, simulating a drawing one might make with the Apple Pencil. I guess iMacs are a possible part of this too, but I’m betting iPads are the star of the show.


----------



## Pumbaa

DT said:


> My gut tell me a new display tech, with a nice new physical design, but effectively a Mini All-in-One (in terms of performance / capacity).



My gut agrees with your gut.

Then again, my gut may be biased since I got myself a M1ni despite its limits and intend to keep using it for a long time...


----------



## Runs For Fun

DT said:


> So for the Apple event this Tuesday, one of the rumors is a new iMac, with neato colors, trim bezels (suggestions are it will be like an iPad Pro on a stand ...).
> 
> Assuming these will be AS/ARM based, but I'm wondering if it will be the same proc in the MBP and Mini?  A faster clock?  Or even more magical, some kind of new variant, i.e., an M1X with more than 8 cores for the CPU and/or GPU ... ? Possibly with new RAM capacity!  More ports!
> 
> My gut tell me a new display tech, with a nice new physical design, but effectively a Mini All-in-One (in terms of performance / capacity).



I'm thinking it will probably be a new variant like an M1X and probably with higher RAM limits.


----------



## JayMysteri0

I'm looking forward to the event to see if I want a new IPad Pro.  I have actually no issues with my 2018 one, but I am curious since I didn't update last time around.

I will say though I am really looking forward to if they have new iMacs.  I have always wanted one, but stuck with Mac Minis.  If this is a big enough deal I think I will give one a try.


----------



## Clix Pix

I think the proposed pastel colors purportedly appearing on the new iMacs are pretty bad.....I wouldn't buy any of those!


----------



## Joe

If they made an iPad mini in Pro form I’d be all over that!


----------



## JayMysteri0

Clix Pix said:


> I think the proposed pastel colors purportedly appearing on the new iMacs are pretty bad.....I wouldn't buy any of those!



Ah, but a space gray iMac with smaller bezels becomes a must buy.

Using an art program like Clip Studio Paint with sidecar & an iPad sounds great to me.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## DT

Yeah, I guess that's another rumor, that the iMac sizes will move up.  32" 6K makes sense for the new large, with maybe a 25" 4K as the smaller size.



RunsForFun said:


> I'm thinking it will probably be a new variant like an M1X and probably with higher RAM limits.



I'm cautiously optimistic, just kind of feels like an Apple play, all new FF, etc., while keeping other things the same.

That being said, there's that "M1X" that was ID'ed by a couple of CPU comparison sites, basically double the CPU/GPU cores (the CPU is suggested to be 12-core, since it's only doubling the performance cores, 4 + [2 x 4]).

Heck, I guess the M1 machines have been out for like 6 months, that seems like a reasonable timeframe to offer a new M1, and the existing products were always the "entry level" (I use that loosely given their performance), iMacs __should__ be faster than the 13" laptops.

What I'm excited about is the potential for this new M1 to go into a Mini, if they reveal an M1X iMac tomorrow, and it goes on sale immediately, I can't imagine there not being a revised M1X Mini out soon.   A 16/16 core Mini, with 32 or 64GBs of RAM, and 4 ports?  Yes please   That would solve the primary issue with the Mini, the pretty lackluster GPU performance.


----------



## SuperMatt

Because the graphic makes it seem like a typical iPad event, and we’re only 2 months away from WWDC (usually a Mac-focused event), we should consider the possibility of no new Macs tomorrow.


----------



## DT




----------



## JayMysteri0

This frightens me...



> Wedbush Analysts Say 'Spring Loaded' Event Will Debut New iPads With 'Modest Price Increase,' Along With 'a Few Surprises'
> 
> 
> Apple is planning to launch a new entry-level iPad, iPad mini, and iPad Pro at its "Spring Loaded" event tomorrow, along with "a few...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.macrumors.com






> While the entry-level ‌iPad‌ and the ‌iPad mini‌ will see "consistent pricing" compared to the current models, the ‌iPad Pro‌ models will apparently have "*modest price increases*" over the current versions.




What is "modest" for Apple?  

A kidney & A foot of small intestines?


----------



## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> What is "modest" for Apple?
> 
> A kidney & A foot of small intestines?




...and you should be grateful they're only asking for a foot thereof.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> ...and you should be grateful they're only asking for a foot thereof.



Well bear in mind, Apple plays the long   game.  

They need to have some feet left for next updates with slightly better screen and always 50% more power than last.


----------



## Clix Pix

Space Grey would be acceptable for an iMac, or standard silver, just not pastel!   Well, since I'm not interested in an iMac anyway, kind of a moot point.  I'm much happier with the flexibility offered by using a MacBook Pro plus an external display in whatever size I choose (currently, the one I'm using is 24").   I can't haul around some whopping 27" iMac machine and the 21" that Apple has been offering isn't satisfactory for me,   but I can handle a nice 15" MBP and a 24" external monitor without too much hassle.    There's no way I'd ever be interested in an iMac with a 30" or larger screen.

My hunch is that if Apple offers a new version of the iMac tomorrow that it'll be the equivalent of the current baseline  21.5" model, redesigned in a new case with thinner bezels and no "chin," equipped with the M1 chip that is offered in the current M1 MBA, MBP and Mini.   I daresay that we won't see any of the machines with the more advanced chips until later, probably not until in the autumn.    Although there have been WWDC events where new Macs or other hardware have been announced, the primary focus of that conference is and always has been actually the software, with developers learning about the upcoming versions of iOS and MacOS, so that they can prepare their apps for those prior to the usual release in September or October.

I'm waiting for the M1X version of the MBP:  a 16" with four Thunderbolt ports, lots of power under the hood, plus the option to go with 32 GB RAM.....


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Renzatic

Someone over at Blenderartists posted this yesterday. It's based upon the rumored designs of the upcoming iMacs.

In much the same way the old iMacs looked a bit like fat iPads with a chin on the front, these new iMacs will probably look quite a bit like the current iPad Pros.


----------



## Runs For Fun

If they announce a AS iMac with higher specs I would be so tempted to get one. I'm kind of holding out for that rumored Mac Pro Mini. I would buy the shit out of a Mac Pro Mini.



DT said:


> Yeah, I guess that's another rumor, that the iMac sizes will move up.  32" 6K makes sense for the new large, with maybe a 25" 4K as the smaller size.
> 
> 
> I'm cautiously optimistic, just kind of feels like an Apple play, all new FF, etc., while keeping other things the same.
> 
> That being said, there's that "M1X" that was ID'ed by a couple of CPU comparison sites, basically double the CPU/GPU cores (the CPU is suggested to be 12-core, since it's only doubling the performance cores, 4 + [2 x 4]).
> 
> Heck, I guess the M1 machines have been out for like 6 months, that seems like a reasonable timeframe to offer a new M1, and the existing products were always the "entry level" (I use that loosely given their performance), iMacs __should__ be faster than the 13" laptops.
> 
> What I'm excited about is the potential for this new M1 to go into a Mini, if they reveal an M1X iMac tomorrow, and it goes on sale immediately, I can't imagine there not being a revised M1X Mini out soon.   A 16/16 core Mini, with 32 or 64GBs of RAM, and 4 ports?  Yes please   That would solve the primary issue with the Mini, the pretty lackluster GPU performance.



I couldn't imagine Apple releasing an iMac with the same specs as the current M1 lineup. I'm willing to be a good majority of iMac users are looking for higher specs. I would love to see a 32GB RAM option on there!


----------



## Clix Pix

Just as they did with the first batch of M1 machines, Apple will start with a baseline model just to get things started, let the first-adopters get their hands on it and also to appeal to those purchasers who really only need and want just a baseline model in the first place, are perfectly happy with a small-capacity SSD and 8 GB RAM.   The off-the-shelf  21.5" baseline model still has the stupid dog-slow HDD, for heaven's sake, and yet consumers have still been buying those and then wondering why their pretty new machine isn't all that speedy. 

Some people still prefer a desktop to a laptop, but don't really need or want all the power that can come with a desktop, and instead are content with something that does the basics and sits in the family room or the kitchen or wherever.  I can imagine that those pastel colors will appeal to some people (I know one person who would be thrilled to have a pink iMac sitting on her desk!), and there will be an audience for the newer, faster iMacs after years of the rather limited offerings at the 21.5" size.   Even an iMac with a 250 GB SSD and 8 GB RAM in an M1 iMac will feel so much like a huge upgrade to anyone who has been using a 21.5" baseline model the past several years.   I remember the 24" iMac with great fondness and always thought that 24" was an ideal size for a computer display (which is why I am now gazing at an external 24" display even as I'm typing).  21.5" was just a bit too small, although it fit nicely into places where there was limited space.

Actually, for years the iMac and the MBP have had similarities in functionality and "innards," too, with the iMac in the old days offering a laptop-sized HDD rather than a full-sized desktop HDD.


----------



## JayMysteri0

RunsForFun said:


> If they announce a AS iMac with higher specs I would be so tempted to get one. I'm kind of holding out for that rumored Mac Pro Mini. I would buy the shit out of a Mac Pro Mini.
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine Apple releasing an iMac with the same specs as the current M1 lineup. I'm willing to be a good majority of iMac users are looking for higher specs. I would love to see a 32GB RAM option on there!



At least an option to add our own ram, even if you settle for the smaller version.

With the ability to go 32GB in the smaller, and even higher in the larger.


----------



## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> At least an option to add our own ram, even if you settle for the smaller version.




That won't happen with any of the M1 machines, since the RAM is entwined within the processor itself.

edit: though there have been reports of people upgrading their RAM in the current M1 laptops. Thing is, you have to have an exceedingly steady hand, nigh superhuman soldering skills, and enough disposable income to write off the 50% chance you have of ruining your machine.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> That won't happen with any of the M1 machines, since the RAM is entwined within the processor itself.
> 
> edit: though there have been reports of people upgrading their RAM in the current M1 laptops. Thing is, you have to have an exceedingly steady hand, nigh superhuman soldering skills, and enough disposable income to write off the 50% chance you have of ruining your machine.



Which will become a big problem for many, as that door to put in your own memory is a distinct selling point for the 27.

With Apple's ram prices they are going to need one hell of a sales pitch to make up for that.

I know it borders on being a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Clix Pix

This is the current 21.5" machine that I'm betting will be replaced by a new 24" M1 iMac:

3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor
256GB Storage
Retina 4K Display​
3.6GHz quad-core 8th-generation Intel Core i3 processor
8GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory, configurable up to 32GB
256GB SSD storage¹
Radeon Pro 555X with 2GB of GDDR5 memory
Two Thunderbolt 3 ports
Retina 4K 4096-by-2304 P3 display
$1,299.00

It's the one in the middle just above the actual baseline one.  This one offers the Retina 4K display, and I'm sure that would be featured with a new M1 machine.  

Note the specs:   8 GB RAM,  256 GB SSD, just two Thunderbolt 3 ports (no legacy USB-3 ports?)  Retina display.......      All Apple has to do is redesign the iMac so that the display is larger (trimming away the bezels) and doing something with the innards so that there is no longer the need for that "chin,"  stick in the M1 processor and that's it....

We won't see more advanced machines until Autumn, I'm pretty sure of it.


----------



## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> Which will become a big problem for many, as that door to put in your own memory is a distinct selling point for the 27.
> 
> With Apple's ram prices they are going to need one hell of a sales pitch to make up for that.
> 
> I know it borders on being a deal breaker for me.




That is the M1's greatest strength and weakness. The CPU having nigh instantaneous access to the RAM is one of the reasons why it's such a powerful and efficient chip, but it comes at the cost of not being able to upgrade later.

Though Apple's generally high resale value is a mitigating factor here.


----------



## Renzatic

Clix Pix said:


> This is the current 21.5" machine that I'm betting will be replaced by a new 24" M1 iMac:
> 
> 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor​256GB Storage​Retina 4K Display​
> 3.6GHz quad-core 8th-generation Intel Core i3 processor
> 8GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory, configurable up to 32GB
> 256GB SSD storage¹
> *Radeon Pro 555X with 2GB of GDDR5 memory*
> Two Thunderbolt 3 ports
> Retina 4K 4096-by-2304 P3 display
> $1,299.00




I highly doubt any of the upcoming iMacs will have discrete 3rd party GPU. From here on out, I'm thinking it's all Apple silicon exclusively, with an eGPU option for those who need some extra power.


----------



## Clix Pix

It's been years now since I've replaced RAM in a machine -- last time I did it was back in my Windows days.  Even though it costs more to purchase the RAM one thinks they'll need in the future, which is sometimes hard to anticipate if one is planning to keep a machine for many years, in the long run it is easier and simpler, even if it does feel like a real ouchie in the pocketbook at the time of making the purchase.


----------



## Clix Pix

Renzatic said:


> I highly doubt any of the upcoming iMacs will have discrete 3rd party GPU. From here on out, I'm thinking it's all Apple silicon exclusively, with an eGPU option for those who need some extra power.




Right, I agree with that;  there won't be a need for the discrete third-party GPU with the new Apple Silicon chip.    The machine I'm typing on right now, the 15" 2018 MBP, has the Radeon Pro Vega 20, but I'd be very surprised if there would be such a thing included in the M1X machines, and certainly there isn't one included in the current M1 ones.


----------



## Renzatic

Clix Pix said:


> Right, I agree with that;  there won't be a need for the discrete third-party GPU with the new Apple Silicon chip.    The machine I'm typing on right now, the 15" 2018 MBP, has the Radeon Pro Vega 20, but I'd be very surprised if there would be such a thing included in the M1X machines, and certainly there isn't one included in the current M1 ones.




Gotcha. I misread you. Thought you were talking about the potential specs on the upcoming iMacs.

...which I should've caught with the whole "Core i3" bit, but, you know, these things happen.


----------



## Clix Pix

Here's the bottom-of-the-heap baseline iMac as it is currently being offered:
2.3GHz Dual-Core Processor with Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz​256GB Storage​
2.3GHz dual-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz
8GB 2133MHz memory, configurable to 16GB
256GB SSD storage¹
Intel Iris Plus Graphics 640
Two Thunderbolt 3 ports
1920-by-1080 sRGB display
$1,099.00

The primary differences between it and the one I posted in my earlier post are absence of retina screen and absence of discrete graphics.   It makes sense that Apple would include the retina screen in the new M1 iMac, but not the discrete graphics.

The point here is that if Apple announces and releases a new iMac tomorrow that it will be, just as earlier they did with the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro machines, a pretty basic machine with just two Thunderbolt ports and the M1 processor as opposed to what we will see later in the autumn, much more powerful machines with M1X and four Thunderbolt ports, etc.    That said, an M1 24" iMac will still be a huge improvement over the current lineup of base-level iMacs!


----------



## Renzatic

Clix Pix said:


> Here's the bottom-of-the-heap baseline iMac as it is currently being offered...




They're still offering 7th gen Intels at that price point? The two TB3 ports are pretty nice, but otherwise, it's a $300 machine in a $1000 package.


----------



## DT

Renzatic said:


> Someone over at Blenderartists posted this yesterday. It's based upon the rumored designs of the upcoming iMacs.
> 
> In much the same way the old iMacs looked a bit like fat iPads with a chin on the front, these new iMacs will probably look quite a bit like the current iPad Pros.




Ha! There's Jay's Space Black 




RunsForFun said:


> If they announce a AS iMac with higher specs I would be so tempted to get one. I'm kind of holding out for that rumored Mac Pro Mini. I would buy the shit out of a Mac Pro Mini.




Yeah, me too.  Well, heck I don't even need a  "Pro" model, just the same FF with a 32GB RAM option, and a 12/16 CPU/GPU setup, 4 ports, but I do like the idea of making it a cube, maybe adding an NVME socket (to supplement the internal storage with a BYO).



Renzatic said:


> That won't happen with any of the M1 machines, since the RAM is entwined within the processor itself.
> 
> edit: though there have been reports of people upgrading their RAM in the current M1 laptops. Thing is, you have to have an exceedingly steady hand, nigh superhuman soldering skills, and enough disposable income to write off the 50% chance you have of ruining your machine.




It's part of the package, but still an isolated set of chips, so I think they could provide an external-to-the-SOC 128bit bus and sockets, though it's also fairly high performance RAM (I believe I recall ~68GB/s), LPDDR4X, so it's not cheap even if you source your own.


----------



## DT

Renzatic said:


> I highly doubt any of the upcoming iMacs will have discrete 3rd party GPU. From here on out, I'm thinking it's all Apple silicon exclusively, with an eGPU option for those who need some extra power.




The M1 GPU is pretty decent, I see it falls between a GTX-1050 Ti and a GTX-1660 Ti, looks like it's ~17% faster than a Pro Vega 20, I figure if that performance was nearly doubled that's getting pretty stout.  And certainly vs. the existing Mini, it's like a zillion times faster, without the hassle of an eGPU ...


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> The M1 GPU is pretty decent, I see it falls between a GTX-1050 Ti and a GTX-1660 Ti, looks like it's ~17% faster than a Pro Vega 20, I figure if that performance was nearly doubled that's getting pretty stout.  And certainly vs. the existing Mini, it's like a zillion times faster, without the hassle of an eGPU ...



eGPUs are disappointing with BigSur requiring you to quit everything when you disconnect it.


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> The M1 GPU is pretty decent, I see it falls between a GTX-1050 Ti and a GTX-1660 Ti, looks like it's ~17% faster than a Pro Vega 20, I figure if that performance was nearly doubled that's getting pretty stout.  And certainly vs. the existing Mini, it's like a zillion times faster, without the hassle of an eGPU ...




It's a solid performer, and I'll imagine it'll be even better in the iMacs, where heat and power drain aren't so much of an issue, but there are always people who need more GPU power. Like, for instance, 3D renderers, or anything that leverages CUDA/OpenCL for a GPGPU speed boost.

I'll say this much, for a 10w processor, the M1's performance is absolutely obscene. If it can scale well, it'll be a monster of a chip.


----------



## Yoused

Renzatic said:


> Someone over at Blenderartists posted this yesterday. It's based upon the rumored designs of the upcoming iMacs.
> 
> In much the same way the old iMacs looked a bit like fat iPads with a chin on the front, these new iMacs will probably look quite a bit like the current iPad Pros.
> 
> View attachment 4588



I mean, eww. Those are not at all appealing.

I could see a touch-screen iMac, but maybe not on the base model. It would be awesome if Apple would produce a screen-overlay plate that could allow a touchscreen option on iMac and ~books, but that would have to be next year (if it is not already in the pipe). And of course that is way too many ports. They will not be including SD, at the very least.



As to memory, it goes

register->L1->L2(shared)->RAM(SoC)->Flash->externalStorage->networks

As I see it, there is a space between SoC-RAM and Flash where you could put in a block of RAM that would be a lot faster than Flash while not as fast as embedded RAM and not GPU-accessible. It could be a sort of storage ultra-cache, a swap space that does now leave toothmarks in the SSD. There could be a memory slot in the iMac. Probably not this one, though.


----------



## SuperMatt

I wish they would bring this one back:


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> It's part of the package, but still an isolated set of chips, so I think they could provide an external-to-the-SOC 128bit bus and sockets, though it's also fairly high performance RAM (I believe I recall ~68GB/s), LPDDR4X, so it's not cheap even if you source your own.




I don't really know enough about it to offer up a comment, to be honest. 

On a random semi-uneducated guess, I'd say it's technically possible to have swappable ram without sacrificing any speed, though it'd probably require something specific and/or proprietary to achieve. The real question is whether Apple allow it or not.

...and I think we all know the answer to that, given Apple's love of putting the thumbscrews to people who want more than baseline memory.


----------



## thekev

P_X said:


> eGPUs are disappointing with BigSur requiring you to quit everything when you disconnect it.




it's mostly that gpus don't expect to be hot plugged, and their drivers weren't written for it. I said at the very beginning (long ago in a galaxy far away..) that I wouldn't expect much until we see a native box + card solution. Even those didn't turn out so great.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Renzatic said:


> Someone over at Blenderartists posted this yesterday. It's based upon the rumored designs of the upcoming iMacs.
> 
> In much the same way the old iMacs looked a bit like fat iPads with a chin on the front, these new iMacs will probably look quite a bit like the current iPad Pros.
> 
> View attachment 4588



I actually like these. Apparently it’s an unpopular opinion lol


----------



## Renzatic

RunsForFun said:


> I actually like these. Apparently it’s an unpopular opinion lol




I think they're pretty alright. Though I am glad they finally got rid of the rose gold color. Or as I liked to call it: smokers white.


----------



## Renzatic

Yoused said:


> I could see a touch-screen iMac, but maybe not on the base model.




I doubt we'll ever seen a touchscreen Mac, not while Apple's selling a big iPad that can be sidecar'd to it.


----------



## User.45

thekev said:


> it's mostly that gpus don't expect to be hot plugged, and their drivers weren't written for it. I said at the very beginning (long ago in a galaxy far away..) that I wouldn't expect much until we see a native box + card solution. Even those didn't turn out so great.



You're right, but my grief is that under Mojave I could hot plug without an essential soft reset through all software getting closed. It did have some kernel panics tho...


----------



## DT




----------



## Pumbaa

Oh, wait. No. Please be kind to my wallet, Apple!


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## Renzatic

This sucks. It's starting right when I have to go in and get my 2nd Covid shot.

Well hell. Guess I'll have something to look forward to when I get back, at least.


----------



## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> This sucks. It's starting right when I have to go in and get my 2nd Covid shot.
> 
> Well hell. Guess I'll have something to look forward to when I get back, at least.



I’d love to completely miss the event in exchange for a 1st shot!


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> I’d love to completely miss the event in exchange for a 1st shot!




I'll see if I can sneak one out for you.


----------



## JayMysteri0

They made 24inch pastel colored iPad Pros you can't carry around.


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## Pumbaa

JayMysteri0 said:


> They made 24inch pastel colored iPad Pros you can't carry around.



Don’t worry! A 3rd party stand with battery will be announced in 3.. 2.. 1.. Any day now!

Just hit the gym!


----------



## JayMysteri0

Pumbaa said:


> Don’t worry! A 3rd party stand with battery will be announced in 3.. 2.. 1.. Any day now!
> 
> Just hit the gym!



They're going to save it.  I'll pass on pastel colored iMacs

iPad Pros got the M1 chip.  I'll just go with that, or wait for the Fall event when they announce a bigger iMac

I'm waiting to read what is improved with the Apple TV, besides a possibly better remote.

Wait:  The had a white or silver magic keyboard!  Oooh!


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> They're going to save it.  I'll pass on pastel colored iMacs
> 
> iPad Pros got the M1 chip.  I'll just go with that, or wait for the Fall event when they announce a bigger iMac
> 
> I'm waiting to read what is improved with the Apple TV, besides a possibly better remote.
> 
> Wait:  The had a white or silver magic keyboard!  Oooh!



A reasonable Apple TV remote!!!!!
Isn't it hilarious to get these huge landmark design updates which essentially just take us back to before Jhonny Ive lost his remaining sense of ergonomics?


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> They're going to save it.  I'll pass on pastel colored iMacs
> 
> iPad Pros got the M1 chip.  I'll just go with that, or wait for the Fall event when they announce a bigger iMac
> 
> I'm waiting to read what is improved with the Apple TV, besides a possibly better remote.
> 
> Wait:  The had a white or silver magic keyboard!  Oooh!



Also, we have just witnessed the iPad Pro's becoming an actual potent, useful personal computer. That's really neat.


----------



## lizkat

P_X said:


> Also, we have just witnessed the iPad Pro's becoming an actual potent, useful personal computer. That's really neat.





iPad Pro is definitely calling for my wallet...   I do need to upgrade from my almost ancient iPad Pro so at least I'm going to be in the market for one that has the M1 in it, whenever I finally succumb to the pitch.    And I don't mind the size and heft of the thing since I'm not likely to be traveling with it.


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> I'm waiting to read what is improved with the Apple TV, besides a possibly better remote.




A12, faster refresh rates, new remote, but one of the coolest things:

You can use an iPhone and color calibrate your TV by way of your AppleTV, so it provides "pre-output" color calibration - that's badass, so many TVs are potentially excellent, but come with a terrible factory calibration, and not really any "pro grade" tools to correct, so you tweak a few things in the user menus, or call a pro service for $300 (who may still not have access to the service menus, etc.)


----------



## DT

DT said:


> My gut tell me a new display tech, with a nice new physical design, but effectively a Mini All-in-One (in terms of performance / capacity).






Pumbaa said:


> My gut agrees with your gut.






Clix Pix said:


> Just as they did with the first batch of M1 machines, Apple will start with a baseline model just to get things started, let the first-adopters get their hands on it and also to appeal to those purchasers who really only need and want just a baseline model in the first place, are perfectly happy with a small-capacity SSD and 8 GB RAM.






High e-Five


----------



## DT

Just think, we're missing all the shitty anti-Apple, racist, uninformed spew over on MR ... maybe that fucker Huck will be liking all the posts calling out "Too much diversity".


----------



## User.45

lizkat said:


> iPad Pro is definitely calling for my wallet...   I do need to upgrade from my almost ancient iPad Pro so at least I'm going to be in the market for one that has the M1 in it, whenever I finally succumb to the pitch.    And I don't mind the size and heft of the thing since I'm not likely to be traveling with it.



The 12.9" keyboard is $350 Insane... However, I have a 2017 iPad Pro and it's hands down the most versatile device I have. I've used it to read hundreds of papers, it's digital-analog audio converter is top notch, it's battery life is insane, and it survived my 3-year-old who uses is to learn how to (pretend how to) read on the regular. 4 years in.


----------



## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> A12, faster refresh rates, new remote, but one of the coolest things:
> 
> You can use an iPhone and color calibrate your TV by way of your AppleTV, so it provides "pre-output" color calibration - that's badass, so many TVs are potentially excellent, but come with a terrible factory calibration, and not really any "pro grade" tools to correct, so you tweak a few things in the user menus, or call a pro service for $300 (who may still not have access to the service menus, etc.)



I just don't know if that's worth buying another one.

It's the same with my 2018 iPad Pro.  The new ones got nice improvements, but none that make me want a different one than the one I have.

Strangely only the white Magic keyboard and Air tags for my mother got me interested.


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> I just don't know if that's worth buying another one.
> 
> It's the same with my 2018 iPad Pro.  The new ones got nice improvements, but none that make me want a different one than the one I have.
> 
> Strangely only the white Magic keyboard and Air tags for my mother got me interested.




Sir, I'd like to ask you to please take you 4.20 event comments to the proper area.  Thank you.


----------



## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> Sir, I'd like to ask you to please take you 4.20 event comments to the proper area.  Thank you.



I don't think that was there at the time I started posting.

Besides... PASTEL 24in iMacs!


----------



## User.45

JayMysteri0 said:


> Strangely only the white Magic keyboard and Air tags for my mother got me interested.



Find My... Mother

Sounds like a nice feature


----------



## JayMysteri0

P_X said:


> Find My... Mother
> 
> Sounds like a nice feature



You mean find her keys!

I don't know how many times she used to misplace them somewhere.

It's got to the point that when she goes out with me somewhere she just leaves her keys home by default.  

If Tile had ever been allowed to be native, I wouldn't be looking at tags.


----------



## Pumbaa

JayMysteri0 said:


> You mean find her keys!
> 
> I don't know how many times she used to misplace them somewhere.
> 
> It's got to the point that when she goes out with me somewhere she just leaves her keys home by default.
> 
> If Tile had ever been allowed to be native, I wouldn't be looking at tags.



¿Por qué no los dos?

One tag for the mother, one tag for her keys. So many problems solved.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Pumbaa said:


> ¿Por qué no los dos?
> 
> One tag for the mother, one tag for her keys. So many problems solved.



She's got a phone.

Just the one for the keys.

No need to break the bank.  Just the $29

Leaves me money to convince myself if I need a new Apple TV or anything else.  I know if I want something I better be up at 4AM to order, or it will back ordered until late July / early Sept


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> I don't think that was there at the time I started posting.
> 
> Besides... PASTEL 24in iMacs!





Hahaha, it wasn't   Wife wants a purple 

I was a kind of excited about the new KB, except it's not backlit, for-the-love-of-god, why Apple, why?  

It's pretty much what a few folks said:  same SOC as the existing M1 products, new FF, new display, 24" is a great general use size.   Very slick cooling system, the new FaceTime camera tech is __killer__, and I know it's a minor thing, but the ethernet port in the power supply with a single cable is a beatiful, Apple touch.

Looks like 14-16" notebooks, 28-32" iMac,  Mini Pro, will be the targets for the next gen M1 processor.


----------



## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> I’d love to completely miss the event in exchange for a 1st shot!




Okay, I managed to gank a couple of vials while the pharmacists weren't looking. Thing is, they got hot in the car, so I dunno if they're still good or not.


----------



## DT

Renzatic said:


> Thing is, they got hot in the car, so I dunno if they're still good or not.





Plus, how you got them out of the building ... umm ... was that necessary?


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> Plus, how you got them out of the building ... umm ... was that necessary?




Hey, I was asked. I'm just fulfilling my end of the bargain.


----------



## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> Hahaha, it wasn't   Wife wants a purple
> 
> I was a kind of excited about the new KB, except it's not backlit, for-the-love-of-god, why Apple, why?
> 
> It's pretty much what a few folks said:  same SOC as the existing M1 products, new FF, new display, 24" is a great general use size.   Very slick cooling system, the new FaceTime camera tech is __killer__, and I know it's a minor thing, but the ethernet port in the power supply with a single cable is a beatiful, Apple touch.
> 
> Looks like 14-16" notebooks, 28-32" iMac,  Mini Pro, will be the targets for the next gen M1 processor.



In BLACK or Space gray for the love of pete!

That keyboard does seem great, but still begs the question why Apple won't allow face ID.

On your phone with masks you want touch ID, can't have it.  On your home computer with no masks, you can get touch ID.  

On my Surface you had that Hello feature.


----------



## Pumbaa

Oh, come on! Now they offer 10 gigabit upgrades for the M1 Mini?









						Apple Now Offers $100 10Gb Ethernet Add-On for Mac Mini
					

In addition to overhauling the iMac lineup with new M1 iMac options, Apple today quietly added a new feature to the Mac mini. Mac mini buyers can now...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> In BLACK or Space gray for the love of pete!
> 
> That keyboard does seem great, but still begs the question why Apple won't allow face ID.
> 
> On your phone with masks you want touch ID, can't have it.  On your home computer with no masks, you can get touch ID.
> 
> On my Surface you had that Hello feature.




I really can't believe they at least didn't do the all "core" M1 colors, heck, they offer silver, it would be so sexy in space gray.


----------



## thekev

DT said:


> I really can't believe they at least didn't do the all "core" M1 colors, heck, they offer silver, it would be so sexy in space gray.




Not gold?


----------



## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> I really can't believe they at least didn't do the all "core" M1 colors, heck, they offer silver, it would be so sexy in space gray.



Yeah I did a double take when they said the more expensive version had more colors.

I looked & looked & thought oh Space Gray must be there.

NOPE!


----------



## Pumbaa

JayMysteri0 said:


> Yeah I did a double take when they said the more expensive version had more colors.
> 
> I looked & looked & thought oh Space Gray must be there.
> 
> NOPE!



Space Gray is obviously reserved for the _really expensive_ versions. It’s a pro color!


----------



## DT

It's also weird that my i7 Mini is space gray, but the M1 is silver, but both the MBA and MBP M1s are available in silver, SG or even pink/gold ... [?]


----------



## SuperMatt

DT said:


> It's also weird that my i7 Mini is space gray, but the M1 is silver, but both the MBA and MBP M1s are available in silver, SG or even pink/gold ... [?]



I’ve heard a rumor that some people on this forum sticker-bomb their laptops to the extent that color hardly matters…. ;-)


----------



## DT

SuperMatt said:


> I’ve heard a rumor that some people on this forum sticker-bomb their laptops to the extent that color hardly matters…. ;-)





Hahaha, well, now we need pics 

Our MBA is SG, but for the MBP the little G wanted silver, she actually wanted white, but said, silver was close enough (it does have an almost white sheen to it ...)


----------



## Yoused

My best friend had a Rose Gold 10.5" iPad Pro, but I have only ever been able to buy SG ones, because, even reduced the white bezel sucks ungulate testicles.


----------



## SuperMatt

DT said:


> Hahaha, well, now we need pics
> 
> Our MBA is SG, but for the MBP the little G wanted silver, she actually wanted white, but said, silver was close enough (it does have an almost white sheen to it ...)



Might want to ask @JayMysteri0 if he has any insider info on this…


----------



## Joe

I have a 2017 MBP that is still kicking. I hear a redesign is coming later this year and Im trying to talk myself out of wanting that since mine is perfectly fine right now LOL


----------



## Clix Pix

An ORANGE iMac!!!!!   Woot!!!   I squealed when I saw that gorgeous color.   Too bad that the specs don't meet my needs......    I've been done with iMacs since 2015, anyway.    The colors of the new iMacs are pretty but it's too bad that they'll only be visible when looking at the back of the machines..... 

I sure nailed it when I made my earlier predictions, didn't I?  Yep, M1, basically just updating the baseline 21.5 Intel iMacs by putting in an M1 processor, subtracting some inches from the bezels, but sticking with just two Thunderbolt 4 ports and then also providing two legacy USB 3 ports.....   And like the M1 Mac Mini, MBA and MBP, just two Thunderbolt 4 ports and also only a maximum of 16 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD storage.....  Yessiree, I called that shot.   I'm sure that a lot of people who were really anticipating the arrival of M1X and more powerful machines, plus a 30" or 32" display along with the 24" one are disappointed.  That's not happening for a while yet but eventually those next-generation M silicon chips will be along, housed comfortably in even nicer versions of the current lineup of iMacs, MacBook Airs, MacBook Pros and Mac Minis. 

That said, undoubtedly these new colorful 24" iMacs will make many people happy and I'll bet they'll fly off store shelves.  iMacs, particularly the baseline level ones, have always been popular.

The new iPad Pro is very attractive and appealing but frankly, does way, way more than I'd ever need, and since my current 2018 12.9" one is still going strong, I'll just keep on trucking with that one for a while longer.... I've got my eyes, heart and mind fixated on a new Sony A1 camera body sometime in the next couple of months, so since there was nothing compelling for me offered by Apple today, my bank account and pocketbook are giving off huge sighs of relief, as are my iPads, iPhones and Macs, since nobody's going to be permanently leaving the household any time soon......


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> I’ve heard a rumor that some people on this forum sticker-bomb their laptops to the extent that color hardly matters…. ;-)



I like to sticker bomb my stuff, but I buy a case and put them on that.


SuperMatt said:


> Might want to ask @JayMysteri0 if he has any insider info on this…



An earlier case before I got the Magic Keyboard





My Magic Keyboard with a cover on it, that I haven't bombed yet






I'm a big fan of getting cases or covers, then having a party on those.

That way you can resell or trade in as better than good, or if you change your mind, switch cases.


----------



## Joe

I put a skin on my MBP. I love it.


----------



## Pumbaa

JagRunner said:


> I put a skin on my MBP. I love it.



Wise. Safe computing!


----------

