# Waiting for and/or enjoying my M1 Pro/Max MBP thread…



## Cmaier

No idea if this will work here, but at least a few of us seem to have placed pre-orders, so let’s try and use this thread to share experiences relating to arrival of our machines, unboxing, initial impressions, etc.   And if no one cares, then we’ll know for next time  

I’ll start.  I ordered the 16” Max, 32 GPU cores, 64GB/4TB, space gray.    I also ordered a few extra 140W power bricks and USB-C-to-MagSafe 3 cables.  I did not order a polishing cloth ;-)    Due to arrive Nov 10-17, though some of the bricks and wires look like they’ll arrive next week.


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## Cmaier

Something to look at while we wait.









						First unboxing video and photos surface of new 14-inch MacBook Pro
					

As pre-orders begin preparing for shipment, Apple Authorized Retailers around the world are beginning to get stock of the new 14-inch MacBook Pro. As such, the first videos and images of the new machines in the wild have started to emerge, including a comparison to the previous-generation...




					9to5mac.com


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## Renzatic

Hey, when you all get your Macs, I'm gonna ask you all to run some benchmarks for me.


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Hey, when you all get your Macs, I'm gonna ask you all to run some benchmarks for me.



Happy to oblige, as long as the benchmark software is easily obtained. 

Big question right now is the GPU performance with 32 cores. All the reported scores seem to be what you’d expect for 24 cores, so either the scaling falls off a cliff after 16 cores, or nobody has benchmarked a 32-core machine yet.


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## Cmaier

14” next to the 13“ (from AppleInsider)


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Big question right now is the GPU performance with 32 cores. All the reported scores seem to be what you’d expect for 24 cores, so either the scaling falls off a cliff after 16 cores, or nobody has benchmarked a 32-core machine yet.




I haven't seen much concerning the CPU, but from what I've read elsewhere, it seems that the M1 GPU scales linearally, pretty much as you'd expect. The 32 core GPU in the M1 Max is roughly 4x faster than the 8 core GPU in the base M1 in almost all tests.

I'll see if I can dig up a link.


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> I haven't seen much concerning the CPU, but from what I've read elsewhere, it seems that the M1 GPU scales linearally, pretty much as you'd expect. The 32 core GPU in the M1 Max is roughly 4x faster than the 8 core GPU in the base M1 in almost all tests.
> 
> I'll see if I can dig up a link.




That would be great. The highest numbers i‘ve seen are around 3x the M1, which is why it must either be a 24-core version or something goes awry after 16 cores (either possibility is possible.  Looking at the floorplan, I would expect that after 16 cores, you take a small hit due to the mirroring of logic.  I would think it would be in the neighborhood of a couple percent, though, not “32 cores performs only as well as you would expect 24 cores to.”


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## Renzatic

You can read through this discussion I'm having over at Blenderartists here. There's some nuggets of info, and a couple of links here and there, but most of it is assumptions, and us shooting the shit.









						Mac: M1, M2 - Metal 3 <---
					

Based off what we’ve seen previously, transforming vertices, geonodes, and simulations seem to be the areas where the M1 truly excels. When it comes to anything that requires the CPU to calculate tons of raw numbers, the thing is an absolute beast.




					blenderartists.org


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## Hrafn

I ordered the 14" with the highest Pro chip, 32 Gigs RAM, 1 TB.  The order says delivers Nov 5 - 10.  First new personal computer for me since my MacBook Pro 13", mid 2011.


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## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> I ordered the 14" with the highest Pro chip, 32 Gigs RAM, 1 TB.  The order says delivers Nov 5 - 10.  First new personal computer for me since my MacBook Pro 13", mid 2011.



Well you’ll definitely notice a difference, then


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## Hrafn

Cmaier said:


> Well you’ll definitely notice a difference, then



I'm hoping...

To be fair, my work laptop is a 1 year old Xeon with 16 gigs RAM and a 500 gig SSD, and I use multiple workstations at home, it's just that most of those have been re-purposed desktops, so the performance has always been decent at least.


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Happy to oblige, as long as the benchmark software is easily obtained.




Here's what I'll want you to benchmark. It's a simple scene I made in Blender awhile back. The link to the actual file is within the description.

The only downside to it is that you'll only be able to test Cycles with CPU rendering, since Blender won't have Metal GPU support until 3.1, which isn't due out for a few months yet. Still, it'd be interesting to see what the numbers are.

For reference, this scene takes 1:50 to render at 300 samples on my Geforce GTX 970. The CPU, an i5 4590, takes 8:50 to render with the same settings.


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Here's what I'll want you to benchmark. It's a simple scene I made in Blender awhile back. The link to the actual file is within the description.
> 
> The only downside to it is that you'll only be able to test Cycles with CPU rendering, since Blender won't have Metal GPU support until 3.1, which isn't due out for a few months yet. Still, it'd be interesting to see what the numbers are.
> 
> For reference, this scene takes 1:50 to render at 300 samples on my Geforce GTX 970. The CPU, an i5 4590, takes 8:50 to render with the same settings.



I downloaded the file. See you in November with results


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> I downloaded the file. See you in November with results




Geez. November? I'll be old by then!


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Geez. November? I'll be old by then!




Tell apple, and maybe they’ll send me my machine faster.


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Tell apple, and maybe they’ll send me my machine faster.




I'll send a sternly worded letter their way post haste.


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## User.191

Sorry, @Cmaier but this thread is just pointless.

Far better you should have started "let's all spend 25 hours a day tracking our MacBook Pro deliveries" thread and "circle jerk eachother as we pretend to have a first clue as to how the international fright system works".

Now THAT would have been a good thread... 

(I'll let myself out before the door is slammed in my ass)


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## Cmaier

MissNomer said:


> Sorry, @Cmaier but this thread is just pointless.
> 
> Far better you should have started "let's all spend 25 hours a day tracking our MacBook Pro deliveries" thread and "circle jerk eachother as we pretend to have a first clue as to how the international fright system works".
> 
> Now THAT would have been a good thread...
> 
> (I'll let myself out before the door is slammed in my ass)




I don’t disagree entirely, but these sorts of threads seem to be popular so I figured I’d give it a shot. Can also serve as a thread to collect hints about using new features, add-on’s, etc., once we all get our machines.


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## User.191

Cmaier said:


> I don’t disagree entirely, but these sorts of threads seem to be popular so I figured I’d give it a shot. Can also serve as a thread to collect hints about using new features, add-on’s, etc., once we all get our machines.



But how will you know if you’re getting it without YayAreaLivin helping you track it?


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## Renzatic

MissNomer said:


> the international fright system



I didn’t even know that was a thing until just now.

…it’s pretty rad.


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## Renzatic

Now, this is interesting.









						Apple M1 Max Dominates Alienware RTX 3080 Laptop In Adobe Premier Benchmark
					

Apple's retooled MacBook Pro laptops look like they are going to be beasts in some applications where the enormous unifited GPU and CPU memory pool come into play.




					hothardware.com


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## Deleted member 215

Honestly, I’m hating the notch the more images I see of it.

What excites me most about this laptop is the specs. The laptop itself is kind of drab-looking and the notch sucks. 

Still, this is going to be my main computer, so I better like it.


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## Joe

TBL said:


> *Honestly, I’m hating the notch the more images I see of it.*
> 
> What excites me most about this laptop is the specs. The laptop itself is kind of drab-looking and the notch sucks.
> 
> Still, this is going to be my main computer, so I better like it.




Same


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## Renzatic

TBL said:


> The laptop itself is kind of drab-looking and the notch sucks.




I'm neither pro nor con on the notch. For me, it's just there. I probably won't even notice it after a few weeks with the laptop. Though I've always like Apple's minimalist, sleek design. It's the antithesis of all those cheesy ass gamer laptops that annoy the piss out of me with all their unnecessary angles, and glowy bling.


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## Cmaier

It appears that these new MBPs have three separate TB4 buses.  That's a lot of bandwidth.


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> It appears that these new MBPs have three separate TB4 buses.  That's a lot of bandwidth.




Shame Apple doesn't currently support eGPUs, huh?


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Shame Apple doesn't currently support eGPUs, huh?




Maybe it's a shame. Not sure there are a lot of use cases where it would be worth the hassle given the GPU performance on these things.  I suppose there are.  Of course, it's not clear that external GPUs would add much, given the memory architecture.  And of course you'd need Arm drivers, etc.  

Maybe apple will come out with its own little box with a couple hundred more of its own GPU cores on it


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Maybe it's a shame. Not sure there are a lot of use cases where it would be worth the hassle given the GPU performance on these things.  I suppose there are.  Of course, it's not clear that external GPUs would add much, given the memory architecture.  And of course you'd need Arm drivers, etc.
> 
> Maybe apple will come out with its own little box with a couple hundred more of its own GPU cores on it




It seems like such a waste to use all that bandwidth on hard drives and monitors. Plus, even with the GPU power available in the Max, having an external option is always nice to have.


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## SuperMatt

Do you think there will be any available at Apple Stores tomorrow?


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## LIVEFRMNYC

Maxed out on everything except storage on a 16 inch.   Only went 2tb on storage.   Have to wait a month for delivery though. 


Very impressed with the editing test they did in this video! on the 14' and 16'.


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## Agent47

Oh no, not iJustine


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## SuperMatt

I just got one at the Apple Store. The minimum specs 16-inch model (for a family member, not myself). It will be replacing a 2012 Retina MBP 15”. They seem to have plenty in stock.


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## DT

SuperMatt said:


> I just got one at the Apple Store.




Well just fuck right off ...


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## Cmaier

Meanwhile I’m still using a 2016 15” like a caveman.


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## quagmire

I traded in my 13" MBP M1( base $1299 model) for the $2500 14" MBP at the Apple Store. I love it. The 13" MBP M1 was always meant to be a short term machine meant to dab my toes into the AS transition hence only going for the base model at the time. Main motivation for the upgrade was the screen, ports, and magsafe. I will miss the 20 hour battery life I was getting with the M1 MBP, but watching HDR youtube videos..... Just an amazing display. Going to the 10 core M1 Pro was probably overkill for me given my light use and just needing a computer on the road, but I fully intend to keep this machine for 5+ years much like my 2015 13" MBP that the M1 replaced. 

I was debating between 14" and 16" due to the models I would buy being the same price, but no regret going 14". The extra 1" is more than enough while keeping the portability.


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## Yoused

Well, if you want to do the one-upmanship thing, my Mac is a G5 iMac.


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## Cmaier

Well, today I received…. the extra USB-c - to - MagSafe 3 cables I ordered.  So that’s nice.


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## Cmaier

Minor MagSafe 3 cable observations

- the braided cable feels nice. Similar to anker or other similar cables, but the gauge is maybe a little thinner than the 100W USB-C cables I have sitting around.  Would also be nice if they came in more length choices.  Wonder if 3rd parties will join the party (more specifically, authorized 3rd parties).

- color is off-white, and the connector is silver. Would have been nice if they sold space gray versions, for picky folks.

- the MagSafe 3 connector is thinner than MagSafe 2, but the width and length are bigger than the t-shaped MagSafe 2 connectors I still am using for MacBook airs here.  I wonder if we’ll see future ipad pros adopt MagSafe 3.

- the individual pins are bigger, and the spacing further apart, then they were in MagSafe 2


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## thekev

Cmaier said:


> It appears that these new MBPs have three separate TB4 buses.  That's a lot of bandwidth.




It depends how wide of a system bus they have feeding those things. 



Cmaier said:


> Minor MagSafe 3 cable observations
> 
> - the braided cable feels nice. Similar to anker or other similar cables, but the gauge is maybe a little thinner than the 100W USB-C cables I have sitting around.  Would also be nice if they came in more length choices.  Wonder if 3rd parties will join the party (more specifically, authorized 3rd parties).




Braided cable is a nice addition, seeing as a lot of my old mac power cords frayed.


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## Cmaier

thekev said:


> It depends how wide of a system bus they have feeding those things.
> 
> 
> 
> Braided cable is a nice addition, seeing as a lot of my old mac power cords frayed.



Each bus has full tb bandwidth.


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## Renzatic

Now, this is interesting. Two laptops running fluid simulations in Blender, the left a Ryzen 5900, the right an M1 Pro. This is pure CPU vs. CPU here.


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Now, this is interesting. Two laptops running fluid simulations in Blender, the left a Ryzen 5900, the right an M1 Pro. This is pure CPU vs. CPU here.



The fluid tests make ryzen look silly.


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> The fluid tests make ryzen look silly.




When it comes to anything that's brute forcing massive amounts of numbers, the M1 is truly a mean machine.


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## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> The fluid tests make ryzen look silly.



Yeah, not very fluid.


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> Yeah, not very fluid.




You need to phrase that more like a CSI intro. As in...

Yeah. Not very....

: puts on sunglasses :

...fluid.

YYEEEEAAAAHHHHHHH!


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## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> You need to phrase that more like a CSI intro. As in...
> 
> Yeah. Not very....
> 
> : puts on sunglasses :
> 
> ...fluid.
> 
> YYEEEEAAAAHHHHHHH!



Sorry, wrote it using a device with Apple Silicon, not Ryzen. No lag to cover up with sunglasses.


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> Sorry, wrote it using a device with Apple Silicon, not Ryzen. No lag to cover up with sunglasses.




SICK BURN, BRAH!


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## SuperMatt

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1451859111843356676/


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## hulugu

My wifey bought one for work today. It's a beautiful machine, and I really like some of the subtle touches in design. The new MagSafe design is very nice, and the huge touch-bar is fantastic. 

I'll love my 2015-era MBP, but the new 16" M1 MBP is dead sexy.


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## Yoused

Does the M1 Pro/Max include the new image processor that they put in the A15?


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## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> Does the M1 Pro/Max include the new image processor that they put in the A15?



Not clear.


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## quagmire

If I was a betting person, probably not. M2 will probably have it since it is likely to be based on the A15.


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## User.45

Renzatic said:


> Now, this is interesting. Two laptops running fluid simulations in Blender, the left a Ryzen 5900, the right an M1 Pro. This is pure CPU vs. CPU here.



This makes me wonder...will Apple enter the VR realm?! These GPUs could actually drive a high-end VR system. finally


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## Cmaier

quagmire said:


> If I was a betting person, probably not. M2 will probably have it since it is likely to be based on the A15.




I don’t think that’s the issue (it looks like a lot of the other blocks besides the CPU are related to blocks in A15) so much as the image processor on the a15 may be focussed on the camera, and the more general neural blocks on the M1 max/pro are so big they can probably handle the load.


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## Renzatic

P_X said:


> This makes me wonder...will Apple enter the VR realm?! These GPUs could actually drive a high-end VR system. finally




They’re more likely to push more towards AR, since it’s more of a fit for their customer base, and they already have hardware out there that can immediately take advantage of it.


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## JayMysteri0

I picked up my base 16 inch MBP yesterday.  I was supposed to use up my gift cards, but due to Apple not exactly making it clear when & how trade ins work with purchases, ( If you are NOT paying monthly, basically any trade in made in store gets you gift cards instead of being applied directly to your purchase.  So if you are paying the whole thing off at time of purchase, do your trade ins BEFORE purchase so you will get your gift cards, to THEN apply it to your purchase afterwards ) so I now have my gift cards back but in digital form.



Anyways with some other trades & being able to return my original 14in choice I was able to bring down price of the base 16in to being pretty reasonable and I still have my gift cards.  If that makes sense.  I also got the fabled 'polish cloth' for laughs.






I wanted the increased screen real estate over my previous 13in M1 MBA, since I already use a 12.9 iPad Pro often.






The new MBP will be my work station at home that I can take between rooms, while the iPP will be for taking anywhere.

I've gotten the screen sharing to work from the iPad to the MBP, but not vice versa.  I am really looking forward to being able to use the desktop version of Clip Studio Pro with the iPad, to avoid the yearly subscription.  I can find Duet or Luna display if I can't figure out things.

The MBP is waaaaaaayyyy more than I will need, which I don't mind.  The speakers on this thing are VERY good.  Also Apple's claim that the MBP can power higher end headphones is true, which is a pleasant surprise.  It's got a headphone jack!

After years of Apple conditioning us to get smaller, with the exception of selling more expensive iPhones, I don't have anything to carry or protect the 16 inch notebook.  I'm using an old sleeve for a Wacom Tablet until I can find cases & a sleeve. 

Good times.


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## Cmaier

2021 MacBook Pro review: Yep, it’s what you’ve been waiting for
					

It’s remarkable what this portable machine can do.




					arstechnica.com


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## Hrafn

Mine doesn't arrive until November 9th.  It's coming, but so far away.


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## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> Mine doesn't arrive until November 9th.  It's coming, but so far away.




Mine doesn’t come until the week after that, so imagine how I feel.


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## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> Mine doesn’t come until the week after that, so imagine how I feel.



Didn’t order one, so mine won’t come at all. Imagine how I feel!


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## DT

For the notchers ...









						TopNotch for macOS
					

Makes the notch disappear like a ninja.




					topnotch.app


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## Hrafn

Pumbaa said:


> Didn’t order one, so mine won’t come at all. Imagine how I feel!



Well, who's fault is that?  

I'm guessing DT?


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## Cmaier

DT said:


> For the notchers ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TopNotch for macOS
> 
> 
> Makes the notch disappear like a ninja.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topnotch.app



I don’t get it. What’s the purpose of the “rounded corners” option? I mean, if my background doesn’t have rounded corners, the corners aren’t going to magically be displayed beyond the rounded corners of the screen, anyway. What am I missing?


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## DT

Hrafn said:


> Well, who's fault is that?
> 
> I'm guessing DT?




Totally.

Pumbaa: "DT, dude, I really want one of the new MBPs, my machine is a bit old, I've got use cases/workflows that could greatly benefit from the new CPU and GPU, what do you think?"

DT:  "Nah.  Screw the elitist, asswipes buying this new machine, you don't want to be one of THOSE people do you?"

Pumbaa: "No, I guess not, yeah, thanks ..."


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## User.45

The more I read about the specs of these machines the more I appreciate them. Like the HDMI port is only 2.0 and can only do 4K at 60Hz...yet again for 4K 120Hz you'll need better cables too and for that you could just do USB-C. 

The absence of HDMI was mainly frustrating when you were on the go and quickly needed a HDMI to present. That is solved. The SD slot is the same. It's there not for daily use, but for those few times you'll need it and it will be just fine for that. 

Moving the HP port to the left is also a highly needed addition. Dunno what they mean by driving high-impedance headphones. Most don't use over 100 Ohm anymore and for 80 Ohm, even the Air does a decent job, but well it's fine. One thing's for sure, my 2017 iPad Pro's DAC was way superior than my 2015 MBP's or 2020 MBA's so a better DAC in the machine would be a welcome upgrade. But the DAC have never been bad on these machines.


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## DT

P_X said:


> The more I read about the specs of these machines the more I appreciate them. Like the HDMI port is only 2.0 and can only do 4K at 60Hz...yet again for 4K 120Hz you'll need better cables too and for that you could just do USB-C.
> 
> The absence of HDMI was mainly frustrating when you were on the go and quickly needed a HDMI to present. That is solved. The SD slot is the same. It's there not for daily use, but for those few times you'll need it and it will be just fine for that.
> 
> Moving the HP port to the left is also a highly needed addition. Dunno what they mean by driving high-impedance headphones. Most don't use over 100 Ohm anymore and for 80 Ohm, even the Air does a decent job, but well it's fine. One thing's for sure, my 2017 iPad Pro's DAC was way superior than my 2015 MBP's or 2020 MBA's so a better DAC in the machine would be a welcome upgrade. But the DAC have never been bad on these machines.




Yeah HDMI is really, "Oh fuck, I'm at a presentation, where's my <something_to_HMDI> adapter.  Bonus Nonsense:  when I would occasionally operate out in the real world, I used to take an AppleTV with an HDMI cable with me, setup an adhoc network, and use Airplay, so I could position my Mac anywhere vs. being tied to a podium 

I think there's a decent amount of high[er] impedance headphones in the more boutique/audiophile space, that might be commonly used with a Mac (maybe for audio type work?) that are in the 250-300 ohm range (like many Senns) and even my 80 ohm Byers are pretty poorly driven by the built-in headphone ports on older machines (my 300 ohm cans don't even work ...)

Port on the left is great it's the less common peripheral side __and__ the side most (all?) single wire phones use.


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## Agent47

DT said:


> Totally.
> 
> Pumbaa: "DT, dude, I really want one of the new MBPs, my machine is a bit old, I've got use cases/workflows that could greatly benefit from the new CPU and GPU, what do you think?"
> 
> DT:  "Nah.  Screw the elitist, asswipes buying this new machine, you don't want to be one of THOSE people do you?"
> 
> Pumbaa: "No, I guess not, yeah, thanks ..."



You should have posted this a few days earlier. Would‘ve saved me a couple of thousand bucks. Plus now I‘m one of THOSE people


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## Pumbaa

DT said:


> Totally.
> 
> Pumbaa: "DT, dude, I really want one of the new MBPs, my machine is a bit old, I've got use cases/workflows that could greatly benefit from the new CPU and GPU, what do you think?"
> 
> DT:  "Nah.  Screw the elitist, asswipes buying this new machine, you don't want to be one of THOSE people do you?"
> 
> Pumbaa: "No, I guess not, yeah, thanks ..."



Yeah, that’s exactly how it went. Sticking to my trusty maxed out Intel MBP (Retina, late 2013) with a broken keyboard.


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## Hrafn

Agent47 said:


> You should have posted this a few days earlier. Would‘ve saved me a couple of thousand bucks. Plus now I‘m one of THOSE people



Welcome to the club!  "We're one of us!" "We're one of us!"  

Plus, now I can make payments on my apple card.  Probably should have ordered one of the $20 magic cleaning cloths to round it all out.


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## User.45

DT said:


> Yeah HDMI is really, "Oh fuck, I'm at a presentation, where's my <something_to_HMDI> adapter.  Bonus Nonsense:  when I would occasionally operate out in the real world, I used to take an AppleTV with an HDMI cable with me, setup an adhoc network, and use Airplay, so I could position my Mac anywhere vs. being tied to a podium
> 
> I think there's a decent amount of high[er] impedance headphones in the more boutique/audiophile space, that might be commonly used with a Mac (maybe for audio type work?) that are in the 250-300 ohm range (like many Senns) and even my 80 ohm Byers are pretty poorly driven by the built-in headphone ports on older machines (my 300 ohm cans don't even work ...)
> 
> Port on the left is great it's the less common peripheral side __and__ the side most (all?) single wire phones use.



It's a matter of taste though. Senn 6xx series are high impedance but very high efficiency so those will be decently driven by most devices. My Beyer 80 Ohms are just fine on the MBA, though I have to have them somewhere at 90% volume and make sure the source volume is normalized to hit the sweet spot.


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## DT

My 6XXX don't really even work with the headphone port on my '18 Mini, my Studio 80s are a little better, but still way underpowered for my tastes - and I guess, maybe my mediocre hearing ...   

I don't recall how well they worked with my '15 MBP, I was most running an amp (and later a DAC/amp) for audio from that machine.

Sounds like there's a notable and welcome improvement with the new MBPs


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## Pumbaa

Hrafn said:


> Welcome to the club!  "We're one of us!" "We're one of us!"



Gooble, gobble, one of us!


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## DT

FWIW, I'm definitely in for a new M1 something, just kind of waiting to see what kind if Mini action we get. Though I think I'm about ready to pivot back to a notebook and I would do an M1 Max machine tomorrow if my current machine didn't run so great, and more importantly, I just can't allocate the time for a system transfer __and__ putting together a different/new set of services/tools/VMs/Containers/CHUDs/Mansquitos/Mimics ....


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## Renzatic

What’s this about CHUDs now?


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## Agent47

Hrafn said:


> Welcome to the club!  "We're one of us!" "We're one of us!"
> 
> Plus, now I can make payments on my apple card.  Probably should have ordered one of the $20 magic cleaning cloths to round it all out.



Kidding aside, my M1 Max is to arrive around Dec, 15th…


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## Cmaier

Agent47 said:


> Kidding aside, my M1 Max is to arrive around Dec, 15th…




Just in time for Festivus!


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## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> Just in time for Festivus!



Well … not for me. Have an upcomimg surgery on the upper mandible, the Mac should arrive just in time so I can bring it to help ease the pain and get some stuff done while hospitalized (for a week)


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## Renzatic

Agent47 said:


> Well … not for me. Have an upcomimg surgery on the upper mandible, the Mac should arrive just in time so I can bring it to help ease the pain and get some stuff done while hospitalized (for a week)




For a week? You must have a whole bunch of mandible!

Best of luck, man. At least you'll have something cool and new to tide your time with.


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## Agent47

Thx. Just realized the correct term would be upper jaw.

In all likekyhood won’t be that bad, more like a nuissance really. Had a much worse OP a couple of years ago. In comparison this one is child‘s play. In case everything goes according to plan.

Anyway, lots of time to play with my new toy  Just hope it arrives in time; luckily Apple tends to be rather conservative in its estimates


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## DT

Agent47 said:


> Well … not for me. Have an upcomimg surgery on the upper mandible, the Mac should arrive just in time so I can bring it to help ease the pain and get some stuff done while hospitalized (for a week)





Holy smokes, if you don't mention it again, and in case I forget to follow up, best of luck, and positive thoughts for a quick and full recovery.


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## User.45

Agent47 said:


> Thx. Just realized the correct term would be upper jaw.



The name of the bone is maxilla, so that's the "correctest" terminology, but no matter what terminology you use, it sounds uncomfortable. Best of luck!


----------



## Cmaier

Apple M1 Max First Impressions: A MacBook Pro that's actually 'Pro'
					

As we prepare our full review of Apple's exciting new MacBook Pro, we wanted to share some of our first impressions on the design, usability and, yes, performance of this incredibly impressive laptop.




					www.dpreview.com


----------



## Agent47

@Cmaier you got your monster yet? Anyone else?


----------



## Cmaier

Agent47 said:


> @Cmaier you got your monster yet? Anyone else?




Nope. Still scheduled for Nov 10-17.  I have a whole review planned when it comes. Going to pull one of my old 17” MBPs out of mothballs, even.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Nope. Still scheduled for Nov 10-17.  I have a whole review planned when it comes. Going to pull one of my old 17” MBPs out of mothballs, even.




I'm waiting.

...impatiently.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> I'm waiting.
> 
> ...impatiently.




I ordered right away, but I had to re-try many times before the order would go through. Each minute that ticked by was another few days delay in the shipment.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> I ordered right away, but I had to re-try many times before the order would go through. Each minute that ticked by was another few days delay in the shipment.




I won't even be ordering mine until after the Christmas gift giving money crunch. That's why I'm impatiently waiting on you to get yours. I intend to live through you vicariously.


----------



## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> I ordered right away, but I had to re-try many times before the order would go through. Each minute that ticked by was another few days delay in the shipment.



Me too… till I realized I missed the opportunity to order via edu store; so I cancelled. Had to wait till the credit card was cleared to be able to order again. Me being stupid caused a 3-4 weeks delay  (but saved 600 approx)


----------



## Cmaier

Agent47 said:


> Me too… till I realized I missed the opportunity to order via edu store; so I cancelled. Had to wait till the credit card was cleared to be able to order again. Me being stupid caused a 3-4 weeks delay  (but saved 600 approx)




Seems worth it


----------



## Yoused

I wonder if Apple ought to remove "Pro" from their models. The lightweight model is the MacBook Air. Why not just call the alternative "MacBook", because "_Our normal model is *that good*_".


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> I wonder if Apple ought to remove "Pro" from their models. The lightweight model is the MacBook Air. Why not just call the alternative "MacBook", because "_Our normal model is *that good*_".




I have a feeling that when the new airs (finally redesigned) come out, there will be room for a return of the “MacBook.”  Maybe below the Air in the lineup.


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> I have a feeling that when the new airs (finally redesigned) come out, there will be room for a return of the “MacBook.”  Maybe below the Air in the lineup.



Do you even remember the days when the Apple lineup had a bunch of numbers after the names, like the Performa 6350 was different from the Performa 6375 because … some obscure reason. The person who misses those good old days is someone other than me.


----------



## Agent47

They should have brought back the Powerbooks… Powerbook ASi for example


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> Do you even remember the days when the Apple lineup had a bunch of numbers after the names, like the Performa 6350 was different from the Performa 6375 because … some obscure reason. The person who misses those good old days is someone other than me.



Yep. At exponential we were testing our processor by modifying those performa 6—- boxes with new motherboards containing our own chip and custom roms (our cpu required a different boot sequence). A few of those boxes still exist, squirreled away in the homes of former cpu designers….

If I remember correctly, that chip had around 2.7 million transistors. Only 700k were bipolar and the rest were MOSFETS.  The logic was almost entirely bipolar and the FETS were mostly for memory structures.  I owned the floating point and floating point interface units, initially designed by another guy, which accounted for around 40 percent of the logic, at least by area, if I recall correctly (floating point multipliers and dividers are big).  Hard to compare bipolar to cmos transistor count.  We did a bunch of differential logic, though a lot was single-ended as well. You can sometimes get a lot more logic functionality in fewer transistors when you use bipolar. On the other hand, sometimes you need to do a lot of level shifting and use up transistors for that. 
I digress.


----------



## Hrafn

I happened to click on my tracking status today.  Still expected by the 9th, but will be delivered by 7pm tomorrow.


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> I happened to click on my tracking status today.  Still expected by the 9th, but will be delivered by 7pm tomorrow.



I am jealous.  My delivery dates haven’t moved.


----------



## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> I am jealous.  My delivery dates haven’t moved.



Have you tried clicking more aggressively? Maybe that’ll help? Looking forward to the review!


----------



## Hrafn

Pumbaa said:


> Have you tried clicking more aggressively? Maybe that’ll help? Looking forward to the review!



I think it helps to get theyayarealoisnochircoh to thank you for adding to threads.  Unfortunately, that's elsewhere.


----------



## Pumbaa

Hrafn said:


> I think it helps to get theyayarealoisnochircoh to thank you for adding to threads.  Unfortunately, that's elsewhere.



Maybe an invite could solve that problem


----------



## Eric

Hrafn said:


> I think it helps to get theyayarealoisnochircoh to thank you for adding to threads.  Unfortunately, that's elsewhere.






Pumbaa said:


> Maybe an invite could solve that problem



Was one sent? I can't find that name over there.


----------



## Hrafn

Hm.  It's actually "estimated" delivery.  The only scans were from 11/1 in China, so delivery today seems optimistic.


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> Hm.  It's actually "estimated" delivery.  The only scans were from 11/1 in China, so delivery today seems optimistic.




It's pretty typical that deliveries from apple don't update the tracking very often, particularly right after a product first starts shipping


----------



## Hrafn

Yeah, but it just switched to "check back tomorrow for an updated delivery date"


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> Yeah, but it just switched to "check back tomorrow for an updated delivery date"



Ooof.


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> … If I remember correctly, that chip had around 2.7 million transistors. …



Sheesh. I had a 7200 that had an order or two of magnitude fewer gates in the entire Mbd than the counts you see in a modern SoC.


----------



## Hrafn

It's been through Korea, and is now leaving Alaska, but not expected to deliver until Monday, Nov 8.  4 days in China seems excessive.


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> It's been through Korea, and is now leaving Alaska, but not expected to deliver until Monday, Nov 8.  4 days in China seems excessive.




It’s a big country. A lot to see. Your machine wanted to take in the sights.


----------



## Hrafn

Cmaier said:


> It’s a big country. A lot to see. Your machine wanted to take in the sights.



Sorry, I should have been specific.  It was 4 days in ZhengZhou, China.  I think it found a good bar, and some local culinary treats. I hope it didn't pick up a mail order bride.  I didn't pay for that upgrade.


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> Sorry, I should have been specific.  It was 4 days in ZhengZhou, China.  I think it found a good bar, and some local culinary treats. I hope it didn't pick up a mail order bride.  I didn't pay for that upgrade.




Lots of other apple products with which it can mingle in ZhengZhou.


----------



## Hrafn

Cmaier said:


> Lots of other apple products with which it can mingle in ZhengZhou.



It's now one major city away, roughly 100 miles, and says I'll get it today by 5.  My wife believes it will be Monday because it has to reach our sorting center, and that now won't happen today.  I think my best course of action is to hold my breath until it's in my hands.


----------



## Pumbaa

Hrafn said:


> It's now one major city away, roughly 100 miles, and says I'll get it today by 5.  My wife believes it will be Monday because it has to reach our sorting center, and that now won't happen today.  I think my best course of action is to hold my breath until it's in my hands.



It’ll probably change to “Delivered” soon. 

Had that happen to me last year, I was waiting for a delivery when the status suddenly changed to “Delivered”. In the details it said something like “At the dock”. WTF, no such thing as a dock here, only apartments, no commercial spaces at all…

Hope holding your breath works out for you. I am a bit worried, your ”H” avatar is already turning blue!


----------



## Hrafn

Pumbaa said:


> It’ll probably change to “Delivered” soon.
> 
> Had that happen to me last year, I was waiting for a delivery when the status suddenly changed to “Delivered”. In the details it said something like “At the dock”. WTF, no such thing as a dock here, only apartments, no commercial spaces at all…
> 
> Hope holding your breath works out for you. I am a bit worried, your ”H” avatar is already turning blue!



It arrived in town just before 8, but that's after they do sorting.  At this point, I can arrange to pick it up on Monday, or let them deliver on Monday.  Decisions, decisions.

Yeah, apparently, I start getting woozy after holding my breath for less than a minute.  I figure there are at least 8 full minutes between now and Monday 5pm.  I had to give my plan up.


----------



## Hrafn

It says "out for delivery" with an expected delivery time of 5 pm.  

But, I just heard something about it having a "notch"!?!?@$*3
Maybe even not Intel chips?#(G*$()@$#*&5


----------



## Pumbaa

Hrafn said:


> It says "out for delivery" with an expected delivery time of 5 pm.
> 
> But, I just heard something about it having a "notch"!?!?@$*3
> Maybe even not Intel chips?#(G*$()@$#*&5



Winter is coming. Alder Lake would have been top-notch.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Mine just arrived today!

First estimated delivery was Dec. 2-9, then it got updated to Nov. 17-24, then Nov. 10, then yesterday I get a text saying it's coming today. And it did!

Here's my MacRumors post about it:









						💻 👨‍💻 🌎 MacBook Pros 14-Inch and 16-Inch Pre-orders, Orders and Delivery Status Thread - USA & Other Countries (2021) 👩‍💻 💻 🌏
					

It's here! ?    No signature required or anything--I just came home and saw it sitting there on my porch. I'm glad I got home within 10 minutes of it being delivered. :oops:  The screen looks better at home than in the store (partly because the Apple Store I visit is always extremely bright...




					forums.macrumors.com


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> Mine just arrived today!
> 
> First estimated delivery was Dec. 2-9, then it got updated to Nov. 17-24, then Nov. 10, then yesterday I get a text saying it's coming today. And it did!
> 
> Here's my MacRumors post about it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 💻 👨‍💻 🌎 MacBook Pros 14-Inch and 16-Inch Pre-orders, Orders and Delivery Status Thread - USA & Other Countries (2021) 👩‍💻 💻 🌏
> 
> 
> It's here! ?    No signature required or anything--I just came home and saw it sitting there on my porch. I'm glad I got home within 10 minutes of it being delivered. :oops:  The screen looks better at home than in the store (partly because the Apple Store I visit is always extremely bright...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.macrumors.com




From Dec. 2 until today! Nice, though I’m jealous that you somehow skipped ahead of my Nov. 10-17 date (which is still Nov. 10-17)


----------



## Hrafn

I got mine just after noon today.


----------



## Yoused

Hrafn said:


> I got mine just after noon today.



You have had it in your hands for 30 hours. Come on, man, gush.


----------



## Hrafn

Yoused said:


> You have had it in your hands for 30 hours. Come on, man, gush.



Well, the rumors are true: it _has_ a notch.  It's roughly the same size as my 2011 13" MacBook Pro, but with a better screen, sound, and keyboard.

I have many usb-a peripherals, so I'm stealing my wife's hub for ease of use, and with the switch from DisplayPort to HDMI, I now have to order a different cable for my ancient external monitor. 

It's fast, it's zippy.  I charged it last night to 100%, watched an episode of BigMouth, and have been installing OS and application updates along with all the software I actually use, and I'm sitting at 74% remaining.


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> Well, the rumors are true: it _has_ a notch.




That’s what makes it “top notch.”


----------



## Agent47

Delivery of my MBP just slipped forward by a week as well


----------



## Hrafn

Agent47 said:


> Delivery of my MBP just slipped forward by a week as well



"Slip forward" is a good thing, right?


----------



## Agent47

Hrafn said:


> "Slip forward" is a good thing, right?



It is. Sorry, does the term sound weird?


----------



## User.45

Agent47 said:


> It is. Sorry, does the trem sound weird?



Not weird but could be interpreted as delayed by a week vs. expected to arrive a week earlier. I’m glad it’s  the latter.


----------



## Cmaier

Well, now mine (which was Nov. 10-17) is Nov. 12-19, but it has moved from Processing to Preparing to Ship, so that’s progress. Separate orders for a couple of 140W power adapters are still listed as Nov. 9-16 and 10-17, for whatever that is worth.


----------



## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> Well, now mine (which was Nov. 10-17) is Nov. 12-19, but it has moved from Processing to Preparing to Ship, so that’s progress. Separate orders for a couple of 140W power adapters are still listed as Nov. 9-16 and 10-17, for whatever that is worth.



Considering November 9th is pretty much over.

Edit: East coast anyway.


----------



## Cmaier

jbailey said:


> Considering November 9th is pretty much over.
> 
> Edit: East coast anyway.




Yeah, ain’t nuthin’ gettin’ here today.


----------



## Cmaier

Shipped! Apple says delivery on the 19th. FedEx says no date yet.


----------



## Cmaier

Looks like my 140W power bricks will arrive tomorrow.  

Do not expect a detailed review and unboxing


----------



## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> Looks like my 140W power bricks will arrive tomorrow.
> 
> Do not expect a detailed review and unboxing



Booo!

Do I need to take over after a certain someone and tell you how terrible you are until you give the power bricks the attention they deserve?


----------



## Cmaier

Pumbaa said:


> Booo!
> 
> Do I need to take over after a certain someone and tell you how terrible you are until you give the power bricks the attention they deserve?



Sigh. Fine. ;-)


----------



## mr_roboto

We demand a teardown!


----------



## Renzatic

mr_roboto said:


> We demand a teardown!




AND THE VIDEO BETTER HAVE FANCY TRANSITIONS AND A NICE SOUNDTRACK!


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> AND THE VIDEO BETTER HAVE FANCY TRANSITIONS AND A NICE SOUNDTRACK!




Now there has to be a video?

There shan’t be a video. I’m a “text and crappy photos” kinda guy.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Now there has to be a video?
> 
> There shan’t be a video. I’m a “text and crappy photos” kinda guy.




I demand professional quality.


----------



## januarydrive7

Cmaier said:


> Renzatic said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND THE VIDEO BETTER HAVE FANCY TRANSITIONS AND A NICE SOUNDTRACK!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now there has to be a video?
> 
> There shan’t be a video. I’m a “text and crappy photos” kinda guy.
Click to expand...


How about FANCY TRANSISTORS AND A NICE SoC!?


----------



## Pumbaa

januarydrive7 said:


> How about FANCY TRANSISTORS AND A NICE SoC!?



You beat me to it. Welcome, you’re off to a good start here!


----------



## Renzatic

januarydrive7 said:


> How about FANCY TRANSISTORS AND A NICE SoC!?




Wow. His teardown is gonna be that in-depth? :O


----------



## Cmaier

I hate you guys


----------



## Renzatic

Something of an aside here, but it just seems weird that people refer to SoCs as "the ess oh see." Doesn't it make more sense to refer to them as a soc, pronounced as "sock?"

...it does to me.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Something of an aside here, but it just seems weird that people refer to SoCs as "the ess oh see." Doesn't it make more sense to refer to them as a soc, pronounced as "sock?"
> 
> ...it does to me.




good point.


----------



## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> Something of an aside here, but it just seems weird that people refer to SoCs as "the ess oh see." Doesn't it make more sense to refer to them as a soc, pronounced as "sock?"
> 
> ...it does to me.



#TeamSocks


----------



## Yoused

Renzatic said:


> Something of an aside here, but it just seems weird that people refer to SoCs as "the ess oh see." Doesn't it make more sense to refer to them as a soc, pronounced as "sock?"
> 
> ...it does to me.



Oh, be like Apple and put a SoC in it.


----------



## jbailey

Yoused said:


> Oh, be like Apple and put a SoC in it.



Apple used to sell iPod Socks


----------



## Cmaier

Well I haven’t had a chance for a full review of the 140W power brick, but I can confirm:

1) it comes in a box
2) it is white
3) it is rectangular - taller but narrower than the 90W charger
4) it has a USB-C port
5) it can power a 2016 15” MacBook Pro
6) it does not come with an extension cable, but you can remove the “duckbill” connector and replace with any old Apple power brick extension cable you have lying around


----------



## SuperMatt

Cmaier said:


> Well I haven’t had a chance for a full review of the 140W power brick, but I can confirm:
> 
> 1) it comes in a box
> 2) it is white
> 3) it is rectangular - taller but narrower than the 90W charger
> 4) it has a USB-C port
> 5) it can power a 2016 15” MacBook Pro
> 6) it does not come with an extension cable, but you can remove the “duckbill” connector and replace with any old Apple power brick extension cable you have lying around
> 
> View attachment 9699View attachment 9700



How does it smell?


----------



## Hrafn

Cmaier said:


> Well I haven’t had a chance for a full review of the 140W power brick, but I can confirm:
> 
> 1) it comes in a box
> 2) it is white
> 3) it is rectangular - taller but narrower than the 90W charger
> 4) it has a USB-C port
> 5) it can power a 2016 15” MacBook Pro
> 6) it does not come with an extension cable, but you can remove the “duckbill” connector and replace with any old Apple power brick extension cable you have lying around
> 
> View attachment 9699View attachment 9700



That seems a bit minus a video where you pick it up, put it down.  Describe how excited you are. Pick up again.  Put down again.  Flip hair.  EXCITED.   This is like, what?  Two pictures and no hair flips?  Sad.


----------



## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> How does it smell?




Like burning toast, though that could just be me having a stroke.


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> That seems a bit minus a video where you pick it up, put it down.  Describe how excited you are. Pick up again.  Put down again.  Flip hair.  EXCITED.   This is like, what?  Two pictures and no hair flips?  Sad.




I shave my own head so there’s no hair to flip. Sorry.


----------



## Hrafn

Cmaier said:


> I shave my own head so there’s no hair to flip. Sorry.



I didn't even take a picture.  I think you win.


----------



## Cmaier

Well, fedex supposedly has it on the truck for delivery, despite the delivery date still “pending.”


----------



## Cmaier

And it’s here!  Time to open it up and set it up…


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> And it’s here!  Time to open it up and set it up…



stop posting about this


Cmaier said:


> Do not expect a detailed review and unboxing


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> stop posting about this




You know you want to hear more.

Transferring data from backup USB-C SSD  at 300-500 MB/s, going to take a little over an hour before migration assistant finishes, looks like.

This screen is BIG, coming from my 15”.  Feels like the old 17” MBP.


----------



## Cmaier

Status: hammering ”disk.” Simultaneously doing spotlight indexing, uploading to icloud (i assume that means synchronizing and not actually uploading), and a network Time Machine backup.  Machine is plenty snappy - did an Xcode build of a rather large app and it was fast - even with all that going on.  Very very slight fan whirl.  Out of the box, it is letting my battery run down. Now at 83% from 100%. Charging ”on hold” because it says “rarely used on battery.” I assume it inherited that history from the old laptop.


----------



## Cmaier

Can you spot which is the actual mac?


----------



## Renzatic

Hey, when you've got it all set up and ready to go tomorrow, I'm gonna throw a big file your way to test out for me.

Prepare yourself. The sword of Damocles dangles.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Hey, when you've got it all set up and ready to go tomorrow, I'm gonna throw a big file your way to test out for me.
> 
> Prepare yourself. The sword of Damocles dangles.




Not a problem.  This started a shuffle - my 2016 15” replaces the 15” from 2014 that I had been using for iTunes home sharing and printer sharing and network backups and such (that one has a giant bulging battery, so timing is good), but lots of setting up going on for the rest of the day or so 

Also we presumably want to let all the indexing and backups and such to finish before we start benchmarking things.


----------



## Hrafn

Cmaier said:


> Not a problem.  This started a shuffle - my 2016 15” replaces the 15” from 2014 that I had been using for iTunes home sharing and printer sharing and network backups and such (that one has a giant bulging battery, so timing is good), but lots of setting up going on for the rest of the day or so
> 
> Also we presumably want to let all the indexing and backups and such to finish before we start benchmarking things.



Wow, only a day.  I had a ton of documents that have multiple backups but that I never use, so I'm selectively copying data over, and it's still going on.  I've switched to my new computer as my primary though.


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> Wow, only a day.  I had a ton of documents that have multiple backups but that I never use, so I'm selectively copying data over, and it's still going on.  I've switched to my new computer as my primary though.




I guess we’ll see.  iCloud is apparently making progress, though the progress bar doesn’t match the remaining file count.  spotlight is beginning to find some things, so that’s progress.  (Would be nice if it would copy over the indexes)


----------



## Cmaier

Scientifically speaking, the speakers on this thing are very good.  Actual bass. I’ve never heard better on a computer’s built-in speakers (which doesn’t mean better doesn’t exist).


----------



## Andropov

To me one of the coolest things of the new MBPs is the sound it makes when you close the lid, and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. It's soooooo extra I love it. Makes it feel very well built. Kudos to whoever designed it to sound that way.


----------



## Hrafn

Andropov said:


> To me one of the coolest things of the new MBPs is the sound it makes when you close the lid, and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. It's soooooo extra I love it. Makes it feel very well built. Kudos to whoever designed it to sound that way.



Is that just the 16?  I tried mine a couple of times, but don't hear anything.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> To me one of the coolest things of the new MBPs is the sound it makes when you close the lid, and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. It's soooooo extra I love it. Makes it feel very well built. Kudos to whoever designed it to sound that way.




i Haven’t closed my lid yet


----------



## Andropov

Hrafn said:


> Is that just the 16?  I tried mine a couple of times, but don't hear anything.



Ah, it's just that the mechanical sound of the lid closing is more refined now, not an actual active sound like the startup chime or anything. Kind of like closing the door of a high end car vs a cheap(er) car. It's the smallest and silliest thing ever, but I found it nice. The previous MacBook sounds more metallic.

Maybe it's just me. My flatmates didn't share my enthusiasm about this particular feature either.


----------



## Cmaier

I don’t notice the notch at all, but I do notice the overly tall menubar.  I’ll get used to it, but it’s the one thing that constantly reminds me “there’s something different about this machine.”  FWIW, I never used full screen mode for any apps.  Maybe I will, now that I can lock the menu bar up there, but mostly the reason I don’t do it is i am always working on multiple docs at once, and moving data back and forth.

It seems like when you mouse across horizontally through the notch, depending on your speed it cuts the time behind the notch short. Feels very natural.


----------



## Hrafn

Cmaier said:


> I don’t notice the notch at all, but I do notice the overly tall menubar.  I’ll get used to it, but it’s the one thing that constantly reminds me “there’s something different about this machine.”  FWIW, I never used full screen mode for any apps.  Maybe I will, now that I can lock the menu bar up there, but mostly the reason I don’t do it is i am always working on multiple docs at once, and moving data back and forth.
> 
> It seems like when you mouse across horizontally through the notch, depending on your speed it cuts the time behind the notch short. Feels very natural.



Hm.  Initially, I had both the application bar at the bottom, and menu bar at the top auto hide.  I've switched the menu bar to always be up, and I like seeing time, batter, notch, etc.


----------



## Andropov

I wish there was an option for always-on menu bar *except* for full-screen video. It's the only reason I've it set up to auto-hide.


----------



## Cmaier

For what it’s worth, no obvious halo-ing so far, though I haven’t subjected it to torture tests yet.  Mostly just entering passwords, letting the indexing happen, etc.  Biggest pain was creative cloud, which made me re-install it, and then immediately logged me out whenever I entered my password and 2nd factor.  Launching photoshop solved it.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Also we presumably want to let all the indexing and backups and such to finish before we start benchmarking things.




Take your time, I'm in no rush.

This will be a raw GPU test. At the moment, Blender isn't fully optimized for the M1 Macs, so don't expect the greatest performance out of it. Still, I want to see how it performs relative to my machine, the frames per second in the viewport when it rendered view, and the rendering times.

For reference, I get around 3.5 FPS in the viewport, and it takes 62 seconds to render the scene after hitting F12. You'll need the Blender 3.0 beta to run it.





__





						RailShack.zip
					






					drive.google.com


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Take your time, I'm in no rush.
> 
> This will be a raw GPU test. At the moment, Blender isn't fully optimized for the M1 Macs, so don't expect the greatest performance out of it. Still, I want to see how it performs relative to my machine, the frames per second in the viewport when it rendered view, and the rendering times.
> 
> For reference, I get around 3.5 FPS in the viewport, and it takes 62 seconds to render the scene after hitting F12. You'll need the Blender 3.0 beta to run it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RailShack.zip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com



36% through the first networked Time Machine backup. Everything else seems to have settled down.  The old computer seems to be doing its new job.  So getting there.


----------



## Cmaier

Man, this is taking a long time.


----------



## mr_roboto

Cmaier said:


> Man, this is taking a long time.



Try: sudo sysctl debug.lowpri_throttle_enabled=0

And sudo sysctl debug.lowpri_throttle_enabled=1 after the backup finishes, because this doesn't just un-throttle Time Machine, it un-throttles all low priority jobs.

This trick did wonders the last time I was waiting forever for a big initial TM backup to complete.


----------



## Cmaier

mr_roboto said:


> Try: sudo sysctl debug.lowpri_throttle_enabled=0
> 
> And sudo sysctl debug.lowpri_throttle_enabled=1 after the backup finishes, because this doesn't just un-throttle Time Machine, it un-throttles all low priority jobs.
> 
> This trick did wonders the last time I was waiting forever for a big initial TM backup to complete.




I think the problem is network bandwidth and not CPU priority.  The NAS that it’s backing up to is used for a lot of other stuff during the day.


----------



## Agent47

… and mine is still 3 weeks out… oh boy


----------



## Deleted member 215

So I wanted to share some thoughts on this computer, having used it now for over a week:

The positive:

1. It is extremely fast. It is as fast as a desktop. For my previous MBP, whenever I'd switch to using my PC, the PC would seem much faster. That is no longer the case. This computer is faster than the PC and some of it is due to those super fast SSDs.
2. It does not get hot. Every MBP I've had since 2012 has run the fans at full speed while updating macOS. That is not the case with this computer. It barely gets warm no matter what I am doing. Zoom, StreetView, and even browsing Apple Music all caused my 2019 MBP to overheat. Not an issue here.
3. The notch is literally a non-issue. I do not notice it at all. I do not notice or care about the thickness one bit.
4. Battery life is amazing.

The negative:

1. I have been running MBPs at 2x Retina since my first MBP back in 2012, which means I've running my MBPs at the same PPI for the past 9 years. This year, it changed. 2x Retina now means text on the screen is much smaller than I'm used to. And it has taken some getting used to. Certain things are just way too small still and I have been getting a bit of headache from trying to read them. For example, in Pages I usually kept the default zoom at 125% but that has proven to be too small for me now, so I set it to 150% and it's been much easier on my eyes. I am young, I have good eyesight, but the tiny text takes some getting used to if all you've known for the past 9 years is the same PPI.
2. I do not need all this power at all. I probably could've gotten a lower-specced device. I am not a professional, I do not edit video. Honestly, a 16" MBA would probably be my ideal device, but with no rumor of such a thing ever coming into existence, I can't bank on it. $3600 is a lot for a computer of which I'm only using a fraction of its capability.

Anyway, just wanted to share this. It is definitely by and far the most powerful MacBook I've ever used. But it is very expensive, so consider your needs and if you've only ever used 2x Retina on a MacBook, be prepared for an adjustment.


----------



## Renzatic

TBL said:


> I do not need all this power at all. I probably could've gotten a lower-specced device. I am not a professional, I do not edit video. Honestly, a 16" MBA would probably be my ideal device, but with no rumor of such a thing ever coming into existence, I can't bank on it. $3600 is a lot for a computer of which I'm only using a fraction of its capability.




If you don't need it, I'll buy it from you. $400. Up front.


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> So I wanted to share some thoughts on this computer, having used it now for over a week:
> 
> The positive:
> 
> 1. It is extremely fast. It is as fast as a desktop. For my previous MBP, whenever I'd switch to using my PC, the PC would seem much faster. That is no longer the case. This computer is faster than the PC and some of it is due to those super fast SSDs.
> 2. It does not get hot. Every MBP I've had since 2012 has run the fans at full speed while updating macOS. That is not the case with this computer. It barely gets warm no matter what I am doing. Zoom, StreetView, and even browsing Apple Music all caused my 2019 MBP to overheat. Not an issue here.
> 3. The notch is literally a non-issue. I do not notice it at all. I do not notice or care about the thickness one bit.
> 4. Battery life is amazing.
> 
> The negative:
> 
> 1. I have been running MBPs at 2x Retina since my first MBP back in 2012, which means I've running my MBPs at the same PPI for the past 9 years. This year, it changed. 2x Retina now means text on the screen is much smaller than I'm used to. And it has taken some getting used to. Certain things are just way too small still and I have been getting a bit of headache from trying to read them. For example, in Pages I usually kept the default zoom at 125% but that has proven to be too small for me now, so I set it to 150% and it's been much easier on my eyes. I am young, I have good eyesight, but the tiny text takes some getting used to if all you've known for the past 9 years is the same PPI.
> 2. I do not need all this power at all. I probably could've gotten a lower-specced device. I am not a professional, I do not edit video. Honestly, a 16" MBA would probably be my ideal device, but with no rumor of such a thing ever coming into existence, I can't bank on it. $3600 is a lot for a computer of which I'm only using a fraction of its capability.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to share this. It is definitely by and far the most powerful MacBook I've ever used. But it is very expensive, so consider your needs and if you've only ever used 2x Retina on a MacBook, be prepared for an adjustment.




Is yours a 14” or a 16”? I’m not seeing a text size difference between my new 16” and old 15” on the highest resolution setting (which is what I always use - I have bad eyes, but I can read the text easily without glasses - in fact, my glasses are progressive lenses, so I really can’t use them for my computer.)


----------



## Deleted member 215

16”

I used to run my 15” MBPs at 1440x900


----------



## SuperMatt

TBL said:


> 16”
> 
> I used to run my 15” MBPs at 1440x900



You can change the resolution on the 16” to make everything a bit bigger (scaled) - I don’t notice that it looks blurry at all when doing so.


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> 16”
> 
> I used to run my 15” MBPs at 1440x900




Ah, I see. You are sure you want to run at 2x on the new one? Why not just adjust until you get the same text size? There’s essentially no performance difference at non-integer multiples from what I can see.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Unfortunately I do see blurring of certain elements when I choose a scaled resolution and I just can’t do that. It’s why I’ve always done 2x Retina. It’s the only way to get the crispest image. So I’m just increasing text size where I can and it seems to be helping.


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> Unfortunately I do see blurring of certain elements when I choose a scaled resolution and I just can’t do that. It’s why I’ve always done 2x Retina. It’s the only way to get the crispest image. So I’m just increasing text size where I can and it seems to be helping.




Got it. Eyes bad enough not to see small text but good enough to see aliasing.  Terrible zone to find yourself.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Cmaier said:


> Got it. Eyes bad enough not to see small text but good enough to see aliasing.  Terrible zone to find yourself.




It's a curse. 

And I can _see_ the small text, I'm just finding it's giving me a bit of eye strain to do so.


----------



## Joe

TBL said:


> So I wanted to share some thoughts on this computer, having used it now for over a week:
> 
> The positive:
> 
> 1. It is extremely fast. It is as fast as a desktop. For my previous MBP, whenever I'd switch to using my PC, the PC would seem much faster. That is no longer the case. This computer is faster than the PC and some of it is due to those super fast SSDs.
> 2. It does not get hot. Every MBP I've had since 2012 has run the fans at full speed while updating macOS. That is not the case with this computer. It barely gets warm no matter what I am doing. Zoom, StreetView, and even browsing Apple Music all caused my 2019 MBP to overheat. Not an issue here.
> 3. The notch is literally a non-issue. I do not notice it at all. I do not notice or care about the thickness one bit.
> 4. Battery life is amazing.
> 
> The negative:
> 
> 1. I have been running MBPs at 2x Retina since my first MBP back in 2012, which means I've running my MBPs at the same PPI for the past 9 years. This year, it changed. 2x Retina now means text on the screen is much smaller than I'm used to. And it has taken some getting used to. Certain things are just way too small still and I have been getting a bit of headache from trying to read them. For example, in Pages I usually kept the default zoom at 125% but that has proven to be too small for me now, so I set it to 150% and it's been much easier on my eyes. I am young, I have good eyesight, but the tiny text takes some getting used to if all you've known for the past 9 years is the same PPI.
> 2. I do not need all this power at all. I probably could've gotten a lower-specced device. I am not a professional, I do not edit video. Honestly, a 16" MBA would probably be my ideal device, but with no rumor of such a thing ever coming into existence, I can't bank on it. $3600 is a lot for a computer of which I'm only using a fraction of its capability.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to share this. It is definitely by and far the most powerful MacBook I've ever used. But it is very expensive, so consider your needs and if you've only ever used 2x Retina on a MacBook, be prepared for an adjustment.




$3600 - you really are living that bougie life lol


----------



## Joelist

I have my MBP 14 with the non binned M1 Pro 16GB and a 1TB SSD. I gotta admit I am seriously liking this laptop!

The speed is impressive. I have even been running programs and games on Win 11 running on Parallels out of curiosity and it is a fast experience. So far not hearing fans. I also like the additional ports and the physical design is a bit of a throwback and reminds me of my first MBP which was the first generation of Intel Macs. The keyboard is also nicer, and despite what some reviews say it FEELS like there is a bit more travel so my typing is easier and more accurate.


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> I have my MBP 14 with the non binned M1 Pro 16GB and a 1TB SSD. I gotta admit I am seriously liking this laptop!
> 
> The speed is impressive. I have even been running programs and games on Win 11 running on Parallels out of curiosity and it is a fast experience. So far not hearing fans. I also like the additional ports and the physical design is a bit of a throwback and reminds me of my first MBP which was the first generation of Intel Macs. The keyboard is also nicer, and despite what some reviews say it FEELS like there is a bit more travel so my typing is easier and more accurate.




Definitely feels like more key travel, even compared to my old external Magic Keyboard, but perhaps it’s all in my head.


----------



## Cmaier

Well, it just finished its first Time Machine backup to the second NAS, so tomorrow night I will try and spend some time on the blender benchmark.


----------



## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> Well, it just finished its first Time Machine backup to the second NAS, so tomorrow night I will try and spend some time on the blender benchmark.



Will it blend?


----------



## Agent47

Pumbaa said:


> Will it blend?



Waiting for the videos!


----------



## Yoused

Pumbaa said:


> Will it blend?



AAUI it is not a toaster.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Take your time, I'm in no rush.
> 
> This will be a raw GPU test. At the moment, Blender isn't fully optimized for the M1 Macs, so don't expect the greatest performance out of it. Still, I want to see how it performs relative to my machine, the frames per second in the viewport when it rendered view, and the rendering times.
> 
> For reference, I get around 3.5 FPS in the viewport, and it takes 62 seconds to render the scene after hitting F12. You'll need the Blender 3.0 beta to run it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RailShack.zip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com




Downloading blender 3 beta now ( very slow server). I'm not all that conversant in Blender, so let me know if there's anything I need to do to drive the test. (I see I have to hit f12 to render)


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Downloading blender 3 beta now ( very slow server). I'm not all that conversant in Blender, so let me know if there's anything I need to do to drive the test. (I see I have to hit f12 to render)




First off, see how long it takes for the textures to compile when you first enter into Rendered Mode (the 4 circles at the top right of the viewport window, it's the rightmost one.) Then, hit the play icon above the timeline at the bottom of the screen to get the FPS average in the viewport. Lastly, hit F12, and see how it long it takes it to generate the 2160p image.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> First off, see how long it takes for the textures to compile when you first enter into Rendered Mode (the 4 circles at the top right of the viewport window, it's the rightmost one.) Then, hit the play icon above the timeline at the bottom of the screen to get the FPS average in the viewport. Lastly, hit F12, and see how it long it takes it to generate the 2160p image.




When I hit that right-most circle, it did some flickering stuff and the image finally stopped changing after 26 seconds. (Not sure if that tells you how long it took the textures to compile.)

FPS is 1.03 seconds. (Note that I keep my screen set to the highest resolution).  

Render time was 2 minutes 45 seconds (it was using 103% cpu and 98% gpu while doing that).


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> When I hit that right-most circle, it did some flickering stuff and the image finally stopped changing after 26 seconds. (Not sure if that tells you how long it took the textures to compile.)




Yup, that's the texture compile, which is usually just a one time thing unless you make massive changes to the scene, or fire up a new version of Blender. That's considerably faster than my machine, which usually takes well over a minute to do a recompile.



Cmaier said:


> FPS is 1.03 seconds. (Note that I keep my screen set to the highest resolution).




That's a bit disappointing there, since I usually average about 3.5-4.5 FPS in the viewport. Then again, I'm also running the screen at 1440p, so some performance will be lost due to the MBP's higher res screen. We'll call that one a wash.



> Render time was 2 minutes 45 seconds (it was using 103% cpu and 98% gpu while doing that).




That's a bit slower as well. It usually takes me 90 seconds to render out that scene.

Though all this is basically just what I should expect if I get an MBP in the next couple of months. Blender isn't yet optimized for the M1, with Metal based GPU rendering in Cycles being a version away, and the entire Metal backend not expected until the 3rd quarter next year.

Thanks.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Yup, that's the texture compile, which is usually just a one time thing unless you make massive changes to the scene, or fire up a new version of Blender. That's considerably faster than my machine, which usually takes well over a minute to do a recompile.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bit disappointing there, since I usually average about 3.5-4.5 FPS in the viewport. Then again, I'm also running the screen at 1440p, so some performance will be lost due to the MBP's higher res screen. We'll call that one a wash.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bit slower as well. It usually takes me 90 seconds to render out that scene.
> 
> Though all this is basically just what I should expect if I get an MBP in the next couple of months. Blender isn't yet optimized for the M1, with Metal based GPU rendering in Cycles being a version away, and the entire Metal backend not expected until the 3rd quarter next year.
> 
> Thanks.




When i set my screen to “looks like 1496 x 967” I get 4.7 fps.


----------



## Cmaier

Cmaier said:


> When i set my screen to “looks like 1496 x 967” I get 4.7 fps.




I also retried the render at full resolution (after quitting blender and restarting), just out of curiosity, and this time it was 2 minutes 35 seconds.  So a little variability there.


----------



## Joelist

So this Blender using rosetta2? That is respectable performance in that instance.


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> So this Blender using rosetta2? That is respectable performance in that instance.




No, this is Arm. But looks like not yet optimized.


----------



## Joelist

Cmaier said:


> No, this is Arm. But looks like not yet optimized.



Ah. Still good considering unoptimized.


----------



## Renzatic

Joelist said:


> Ah. Still good considering unoptimized.




Based on what I've seen, I'm expecting the M1 Max to roughly match a Geforce 3050-3060 in rendering performance once Metal integration is completed.

Though they're expecting the Metal Cycles render to be introduced for a later 3.1 alpha, which is probably a couple months away. I might redo my scene to be a better benchmark for it.


----------



## Joelist

Renzatic said:


> Based on what I've seen, I'm expecting the M1 Max to roughly match a Geforce 3050-3060 in rendering performance once Metal integration is completed.
> 
> Though they're expecting the Metal Cycles render to be introduced for a later 3.1 alpha, which is probably a couple months away. I might redo my scene to be a better benchmark for it.



That can easily be so - there are videos showing it going toe to toe with a 3080 and effectively tying, but at a far superior PPW.


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> That can easily be so - there are videos showing it going toe to toe with a 3080 and effectively tying, but at a far superior PPW.



By the way, when it was doing that render for 2.5+ minutes using 100% GPU and 103% CPU, the fan was silent. I assume it was running, but I couldn’t hear it even with my ear to the computer.


----------



## Nycturne

Cmaier said:


> By the way, when it was doing that render for 2.5+ minutes using 100% GPU and 103% CPU, the fan was silent. I assume it was running, but I couldn’t hear it even with my ear to the computer.



What data I’ve collected on the 16” at least is that the fans aren’t even run until the cores get going, and then it can basically hold at 1500RPM or so (the slowest they spin) nearly indefinitely. It’s a huge difference from the 16” Intel system I have to use for work.


----------



## Nycturne

Sat down last night to some nostalgia in the form of the Unreal Engine version of Myst that was released for VR. Not a terribly demanding game, so it played smoothly. It did make certain parts of the case just as hot as my old Intel, but the fans still ran at about 1500 RPM.

There’s something weird I’m noticing with power usage. The M1 Max’s GPU is supposed to be a 55-60W part, but I’ve yet to see more than about 30W out of it. While playing, the whole package was using less than 40W, with around 25W of that being the GPU. I’m left wondering what it takes to actually max out this GPU.


----------



## Cmaier

Nycturne said:


> Sat down last night to some nostalgia in the form of the Unreal Engine version of Myst that was released for VR. Not a terribly demanding game, so it played smoothly. It did make certain parts of the case just as hot as my old Intel, but the fans still ran at about 1500 RPM.
> 
> There’s something weird I’m noticing with power usage. The M1 Max’s GPU is supposed to be a 55-60W part, but I’ve yet to see more than about 30W out of it. While playing, the whole package was using less than 40W, with around 25W of that being the GPU. I’m left wondering what it takes to actually max out this GPU.



Probably it only hits that power with GPGPU workloads


----------



## Joelist

One thing I have liked about first M1 and now M1 Pro is how cool they run. It's nice to have a powerful laptop that doesn't have the fans singing every time I need to do something more strenuous with it. While the YouTube videos keep running M1class SOCs up against Intel high end desktop units the REAL revolution here is in laptops - Apple Silicon has rewritten the proverbial book on laptops by making a truly high performance but power (and thus heat) efficient laptop a reality.


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> One thing I have liked about first M1 and now M1 Pro is how cool they run. It's nice to have a powerful laptop that doesn't have the fans singing every time I need to do something more strenuous with it. While the YouTube videos keep running M1class SOCs up against Intel high end desktop units the REAL revolution here is in laptops - Apple Silicon has rewritten the proverbial book on laptops by making a truly high performance but power (and thus heat) efficient laptop a reality.



There’s a thread over at the other place where some guy is complaining that Tj is 100C.  I tried explaining what that means and why he shouldn‘t worry, but he has built his own PCs, so his expertise is superior.


----------



## Joelist

Cmaier said:


> There’s a thread over at the other place where some guy is complaining that Tj is 100C.  I tried explaining what that means and why he shouldn‘t worry, but he has built his own PCs, so his expertise is superior.



Okay I actually went back there and read the whole thread....... I gotta give you patience props for dealing with the two "individuals who reside under bridges" in a relatively civil manner. Stuff like that is actually why I started not to go there anymore and am happy to land here - it is supposed to be a MAC forum not an Anti Apple forum...


----------



## mr_roboto

Cmaier said:


> There’s a thread over at the other place where some guy is complaining that Tj is 100C.  I tried explaining what that means and why he shouldn‘t worry, but he has built his own PCs, so his expertise is superior.



In my experience it's almost impossible to teach armchair experts who build PCs that Tj=100C is fine if that's under the rated operating temperature of the device.  Years of exposure to overclocker forum echo chambers have filled their brains with the idea that temperatures that hot are universally bad, and they will not listen to anyone telling them otherwise.


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> Okay I actually went back there and read the whole thread....... I gotta give you patience props for dealing with the two "individuals who reside under bridges" in a relatively civil manner. Stuff like that is actually why I started not to go there anymore and am happy to land here - it is supposed to be a MAC forum not an Anti Apple forum...




The mods went through and deleted a bunch of stuff, looks like.


----------



## Yoused

Anyone here testing out battery life?


----------



## Hrafn

Yoused said:


> Anyone here testing out battery life?



Sorta. I plug it in when it's about 10%, get to 100 and then see how long until the next time. It's died on me twice, so I'm still getting my usage patterns dialed in.  Experimental test, no.  Just anecdotal.


----------



## Andropov

Yoused said:


> Anyone here testing out battery life?




I unplugged it the week after I got it out of curiosity. Here's some anecdotal evidence:





I had about 18h of screen time during that period, but all lightweight stuff (I work on another MacBook on workdays). So very good battery life in that use case.

For heavy stuff, you can still drain the battery in under 4h. Something funny about it: since the fans almost never spin up into audible levels, you can drain the battery very fast without realising that the task you're running is heavy. For example, the day I got it I had to compile a lot of source to get all the Python packages I use (NumPy, SciPy, Numba & NetworkX) to work on the same Python version. And while doing it, the battery was draining fast (~15%/hour). I was a bit concerned, but then I opened the Activity Monitor and realised I was using all cores at max. And then I remembered, when I did the exact same thing on the i9 MBP, the fans were so loud that I plugged it in because I didn't expect the battery to last long. On the M1 Pro, I didn't even realize the task was very CPU intensive until I saw the battery draining.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> I unplugged it the week after I got it out of curiosity. Here's some anecdotal evidence:
> 
> View attachment 9901
> 
> I had about 18h of screen time during that period, but all lightweight stuff (I work on another MacBook on workdays). So very good battery life in that use case.
> 
> For heavy stuff, you can still drain the battery in under 4h. Something funny about it: since the fans almost never spin up into audible levels, you can drain the battery very fast without realising that the task you're running is heavy. For example, the day I got it I had to compile a lot of source to get all the Python packages I use (NumPy, SciPy, Numba & NetworkX) to work on the same Python version. And while doing it, the battery was draining fast (~15%/hour). I was a bit concerned, but then I opened the Activity Monitor and realised I was using all cores at max. And then I remembered, when I did the exact same thing on the i9 MBP, the fans were so loud that I plugged it in because I didn't expect the battery to last long. On the M1 Pro, I didn't even realize the task was very CPU intensive until I saw the battery draining.



Yeah it’s definitely disorienting not to have any feedback to tell you that the machine is cranking hard.


----------



## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> Yeah it’s definitely disorienting not to have any feedback to tell you that the machine is cranking hard.



I should make an app that plays fake fan noise through the speakers based on CPU/GPU load…


----------



## jbailey

Pumbaa said:


> I should make an app that plays fake fan noise through the speakers based on CPU/GPU load…



Pretty sure this already exists but I’m not having any luck finding it. Saw it pass in a news feed at one point.


----------



## Pumbaa

jbailey said:


> Pretty sure this already exists but I’m not having any luck finding it. Saw it pass in a news feed at one point.



Well, _my_ implementation would obviously be good and memorable.


----------



## Yoused

Pumbaa said:


> Well, _my_ implementation would obviously be good and memorable.




And would exacerbate the battery drain by using additional juice to drive the speakers. I think if I were writing that app, it would make random periodic animal noises. "_… chirp chirp … aaaooouuuuuuu … snnnaaarrrrrlll … meep meep …_" &c


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> Okay I actually went back there and read the whole thread....... I gotta give you patience props for dealing with the two "individuals who reside under bridges" in a relatively civil manner. Stuff like that is actually why I started not to go there anymore and am happy to land here - it is supposed to be a MAC forum not an Anti Apple forum...



Thread has gotten weirder. People seem to be registering just to insult a couple of us.


----------



## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> The mods went through and deleted a bunch of stuff, looks like.



Now they are deleting your posts on thermodynamics. Pathetic.


----------



## Cmaier

jbailey said:


> Now they are deleting your posts on thermodynamics. Pathetic.




LOL. Can’t have any of that in polite company.


----------



## Cmaier

jbailey said:


> Now they are deleting your posts on thermodynamics. Pathetic.




What seems to happen is that someone personally attacks me, and then tells me i am wrong because of incompressible fluids or the reynolds number or whatever.  I reply, and edit out their personal attack and just respond to their technical stuff.  The mods delete their attack post, but then delete all the following discussion that responded to it, even though none of the attack was copied into those posts.


----------



## SuperMatt

Cmaier said:


> What seems to happen is that someone personally attacks me, and then tells me i am wrong because of incompressible fluids or the reynolds number or whatever.  I reply, and edit out their personal attack and just respond to their technical stuff.  The mods delete their attack post, but then delete all the following discussion that responded to it, even though none of the attack was copied into those posts.



That is a major problem with how they moderate. I would consider using the contact form to request that they replace your post. They allow one or two bad posters to ruin other people’s posts because the mods wipe everything instead of just the offending content.

They probably won’t give a shit though. They will just wipe a whole thread because they feel like it and tell you to go F yourself if you complain.


----------



## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> That is a major problem with how they moderate. I would consider using the contact form to request that they replace your post. They allow one or two bad posters to ruin other people’s posts because the mods wipe everything instead of just the offending content.
> 
> They probably won’t give a shit though. They will just wipe a whole thread because they feel like it and tell you to go F yourself if you complain.




I really don’t care enough.  I try to do most of my posting here, not there. I post just enough so people see my signature and get curious and come over hee.


----------



## jbailey

I started reading and posting there last year mostly in the Apple Watch and iPad forums. Then I really upped the number of posts in the Apple Silicon (Arm) Macs forum with the upcoming Apple silicon macs on the horizon. That was after many years of ignoring the site (1 post in 2008, 2 in 2017, next Jan 2020).

The signal to noise on the ASi forum started out really good. Lots of knowledgeable posts and good speculation. But in the last year the value of that forum has fallen to near zero. Very sad that the moderation there is more about clicks than information. I guess that is just the modern internet though.


----------



## Andropov

Oh. Looks like I missed the drama.


----------



## Joelist

Until they ban obvious trolls like Twitchy they are not credible to me.


----------



## Yoused

Andropov said:


> Oh. Looks like I missed the drama.



Do you need more drama in your life? Because, I tend to be fine without it.


----------



## Andropov

Yoused said:


> Do you need more drama in your life? Because, I tend to be fine without it.



Just a bit. Not much. Enough to not get bored.


----------



## ericwn

Cmaier said:


> There’s a thread over at the other place where some guy is complaining that Tj is 100C.  I tried explaining what that means and why he shouldn‘t worry, but he has built his own PCs, so his expertise is superior.



That was a fun guy  Must have some very tasty sand...


----------



## ericwn

Cmaier said:


> What seems to happen is that someone personally attacks me, and then tells me i am wrong because of incompressible fluids or the reynolds number or whatever.  I reply, and edit out their personal attack and just respond to their technical stuff.  The mods delete their attack post, but then delete all the following discussion that responded to it, even though none of the attack was copied into those posts.



It's probably best if you don't directly quote those folks at all and just phrase a general comment like: "Those who question my point of xyz, let me add..." That way the usual quick and dirty mod jobs don't affect your posts that much. At least I hope....


----------



## Joelist

I tried changing my reference from using the word Troll to references like "individuals who appear to reside under bridges"....seemed to work ok.


----------



## Renzatic

Joelist said:


> I tried changing my reference from using the word Troll to references like "individuals who appear to reside under bridges"....seemed to work ok.




...subtle. Nice.


----------



## User.45

Joelist said:


> I tried changing my reference from using the word Troll to references like "individuals who appear to reside under bridges"....seemed to work ok.



Hahaha. Nah, they'll just use it later on as an excuse for a permaban. I tested this too, by referring to the pupils of the Nordic Hillside Academy. Was used as justification to ban me from PRSI. That's OK though. If they penalize people who add actual content over trolls, then the culture they foster will be their long-term headache.


----------



## thekev

Joelist said:


> I tried changing my reference from using the word Troll to references like "individuals who appear to reside under bridges"....seemed to work ok.




I would have gone with something like....


----------



## Renzatic

Are you saying they fish for tuna? I don't get it, Kev!


----------



## Joelist

That's trawling.


----------



## Yoused

Joelist said:


> That's trawling.



Trawling is with a net. Trolling is with baited lines. That image looks like trolling rather than trawling.


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> Trawling is with a net. Trolling is with baited lines. That image looks like trolling rather than trawling.


----------



## Herdfan

Trying to get this back on topic.

I was able to "trick" the offspring into revealing which color iMac she wants.  She has been saving up to buy a new one.  Her current MBP is from 2018 and it has been a great machine.  She is asking for a new iPhone for Christmas, but I am going to buy her the iMac instead and let her buy her own phone.*

So it was ordered about 10 minutes ago: a purple iMac with 16GB Ram and the 1TB SSD.  Apple says it will be here by the 23rd.  

* Funny story about her phones.  From the time she was in middle school, I grew tired of hearing about issues with her phone.  We had decided to move from ATT to Verizon, so over Thanksgiving 2015 we went to the Verizon store to get new phones.  But when it came time to get hers, I asked the guy to bring out 3 of them.  He was a bit confused but did it.  I told her to pick one and from that point forward, any issues she might have are all on her because she picked it.  She spent way more time than needed to pick one of the identical boxes, but she finally did it.  The guy still works at that store and still remembers me because of that.


----------



## User.45

Now that order times are normalizing I am thinking about getting an MBP14. I'm thinking about 32GB RAM +1TB SSD vs. 16GB RAM and 2TB SSD combos. Has anybody here ever had a memory bottleneck? My 16GB MBA has >4GB free at all times, no issues. I also think that these SSDs are so fast, their speed for paging is hardly a practical bottleneck. Does anybody think this will change in the next 5 years?


----------



## Hrafn

P_X said:


> Now that order times are normalizing I am thinking about getting an MBP14. I'm thinking about 32GB RAM +1TB SSD vs. 16GB RAM and 2TB SSD combos. Has anybody here ever had a memory bottleneck? My 16GB MBA has >4GB free at all times, no issues. I also think that these SSDs are so fast, their speed for paging is hardly a practical bottleneck. Does anybody think this will change in the next 5 years?



I went with the 14" 32 GB RAM + 1TB SSD.  I'm currently using 26/32 running Xcode, 3 browsers, Open office and a couple of Remote Desktop sessions.  It comes with Monterey, and has known issues with older printers, particularly Samsung drivers in my case.


----------



## Renzatic

Herdfan said:


> I was able to "trick" the offspring into revealing which color iMac she wants.




I would've bought her the grey one, and 5 shades of spraypaint. The best part about it is that if she changes her mind later, she still has the other cans of spraypaint ready to use!



P_X said:


> Now that order times are normalizing I am thinking about getting an MBP14. I'm thinking about 32GB RAM +1TB SSD vs. 16GB RAM and 2TB SSD combos. Has anybody here ever had a memory bottleneck? My 16GB MBA has >4GB free at all times, no issues. I also think that these SSDs are so fast, their speed for paging is hardly a practical bottleneck. Does anybody think this will change in the next 5 years?




I'm assuming you mean bottleneck as in a lack of RAM, rather than throughput, right? If it's the former, it depends upon your use case, but I'd say 32 gig is more than enough for the next 5 years. If it's the latter, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. When it comes to the amount of available bandwidth between the CPU, GPU, and RAM, the M1 currently has no competition.


----------



## ericwn

P_X said:


> Now that order times are normalizing I am thinking about getting an MBP14. I'm thinking about 32GB RAM +1TB SSD vs. 16GB RAM and 2TB SSD combos. Has anybody here ever had a memory bottleneck? My 16GB MBA has >4GB free at all times, no issues. I also think that these SSDs are so fast, their speed for paging is hardly a practical bottleneck. Does anybody think this will change in the next 5 years?




Personally I don’t think that much is going to change with regards to the requirements for RAM. What do you usually work on when you use your Mac?


----------



## Yoused

I am curious about that image processor, which they put in the A14. Is there any way to determine whether they put that into the Pro/Max, as we would assume they would?


----------



## Renzatic

Yoused said:


> I am curious about that image processor, which they put in the A14. Is there any way to determine whether they put that into the Pro/Max, as we would assume they would?




Considering how tightly intertwined it is with the rest of the CPU architecture, I wouldn't see any reason why they'd remove it for the Macs, but I imagine it's use would be limited on a laptop.

Those image processors are primarily used to filter and correct photos at the moment of capture, right?


----------



## Yoused

Renzatic said:


> Those image processors are primarily used to filter and correct photos at the moment of capture, right?



I imagine they also handle compression/decompression. Imagine if, for every jpeg your browser loads, the cpu does not have to decompress it but can offload that task to a cp. That would be a lot less dicking around for a given core, and if it is fast enough, would allow compressed images to reside in memory rather than having to be fluffed out for quick accessibility.


----------



## Renzatic

Yoused said:


> I imagine they also handle compression/decompression. Imagine if, for every jpeg your browser loads, the cpu does not have to decompress it but can offload that task to a cp. That would be a lot less dicking around for a given core, and if it is fast enough, would allow compressed images to reside in memory rather than having to be fluffed out for quick accessibility.




The gains would be pretty slight overall, but it could be of those "every little bit helps" type situations.


----------



## Nycturne

Renzatic said:


> Considering how tightly intertwined it is with the rest of the CPU architecture, I wouldn't see any reason why they'd remove it for the Macs, but I imagine it's use would be limited on a laptop.
> 
> Those image processors are primarily used to filter and correct photos at the moment of capture, right?




Apple seems to be using them for the webcam in M1-based laptops, at least.


----------



## User.45

ericwn said:


> Personally I don’t think that much is going to change with regards to the requirements for RAM. What do you usually work on when you use your Mac?



These days? Email, word, powerpoint, preview and safari, and a little bit of R-studio. My typical use scenario is having 20 pdfs open, Zotero (ref manager) and word. For open source data analysis I have a desktop that I SSH into to execute bash scripts using CUDA... For proprietary work data, I use a virtual machine. 

TBH, the MBA is more than enough for all this It would be nice if I could use the laptop to replace my CUDA desktop.


----------



## Joelist

If by Image Processor you mean DSP, the A Series has had one for several generations now. In the M1 it handles among other things enhancement of the webcam (which is why the 720p webcam on the MBA for example looks much better than its raw power would suggest). 

The M1 Pro and Max not only have the DSP, ML and other blocks you see in M1 but they added encode and decode blocks for a lot of different types of media; in essence these SOCs have built in Afterburner technology.


----------



## thekev

Yoused said:


> Trawling is with a net. Trolling is with baited lines. That image looks like trolling rather than trawling.




It's actually a missed opportunity for me. I could have added in some additional trolling by using an image depicting trawling, while referring to it as trolling, which would still be correct, in a manner of speaking.


----------



## Deleted member 215

I've encountered an annoying problem with my MBP:









						16" M1 Max - can't connect charging cable when laptop is shut down?
					

I encountered a strange problem today. Yesterday evening, I shut down my 16" M1 Max MBP as usual after using it for most of the day, so this evening when I went to use it again, I knew it was off and I also knew that I had been using the battery so I set it on my desk and attached the MagSafe...




					forums.macrumors.com
				




It seems to be a known issue that only affects the 140W charger. I'm hoping a software update fixes it! Having to start up the computer to plug in the charging cable is bonkers.


----------



## Cmaier

Looks to be a software issue relating to the fast charging negotiation.  Should be fixed soon. 

On a side note, just bought a third M1 mac for our house - my kid’s ancient (2011?) 11” MBA died, so i am buying her an M1 MBA for christmas.  She mostly just plays Minecraft and writes stories on google docs, so it’s overkill.


----------



## mr_roboto

TBL said:


> It seems to be a known issue that only affects the 140W charger. I'm hoping a software update fixes it! Having to start up the computer to plug in the charging cable is bonkers.



While it's a problem, there's a very simple solution which is weirdly under-discussed in that MR thread: just stop turning the computer off.  Sleep is nearly as low-power as off, and the computer will be ready right away when you open it.


----------



## Renzatic

mr_roboto said:


> While it's a problem, there's a very simple solution which is weirdly under-discussed in that MR thread: just stop turning the computer off.  Sleep is nearly as low-power as off, and the computer will be ready right away when you open it.




I'm surprised to hear people still regularly turn their computers off these days.


----------



## ericwn

Renzatic said:


> I'm surprised to hear people still regularly turn their computers off these days.




Only on MR, for sure.


----------



## Renzatic

ericwn said:


> Only on MR, for sure.




It's all these damn kids these days. Back in my time, you couldn't just put a computer to sleep. Hell, you couldn't even shut it down from the OS. You had to tell it to power down, wait a second for it to say it was safe to shut off, then press a button on your computer.

...and god forbid you accidentally press the Turbo button while shutting down. You would _DIE!_


----------



## Deleted member 215

Eh, I just like to turn computers off. It seems to cause a "reset" and solve certain problems that occur in the course of using one. I turn my computers off at the end of the day--always have.


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> Eh, I just like to turn computers off. It seems to cause a "reset" and solve certain problems that occur in the course of using one. I turn my computers off at the end of the day--always have.




It’s not a terrible idea.  MacOS is not as reliable as it was back in the Leopard days.  But I only ever “power off” when necessary (due to, e.g., bugs that won’t go away without a reset).


----------



## Yoused

Renzatic said:


> I'm surprised to hear people still regularly turn their computers off these days.
> 
> 
> ericwn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only on MR, for sure.
Click to expand...


I think what you were looking for there was "because of".


----------



## ericwn

Yoused said:


> I think what you were looking for there was "because of".




Not sure what because of would mean there. MR has an interesting mix of folks who do things for reasons beyond me, if that makes sense. 
I do however agree that my general uptime for my Macs has reduced in the last years as the occasional restart seems to smooth out things at times.


----------



## Renzatic

ericwn said:


> I do however agree that my general uptime for my Macs has reduced in the last years as the occasional restart seems to smooth out things at times.




Given that I'm on the cusp of buying into the Mac scene for the first time, I'd like to hear more about this. I always worked under the impression that MacOS had fairly decent memory management, and could clear up problematic bits and bobs lingering about without any issue.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Given that I'm on the cusp of buying into the Mac scene for the first time, I'd like to hear more about this. I always been under the impression that MacOS had fairly decent memory management, and could clear up problematic bits and bobs lingering about without any issue.



It’s certainly better than windows, but weird things sometimes happen. One that gets me from time to time : preview.app stops letting me search for text in pdf files. Only a reboot resolves.


----------



## Yoused

ericwn said:


> Not sure what because of would mean there.



As in, "_damn this is aggravating_" as you shut the machine off and go for a walk to cool off. A lot of interesting people there, yes, but remember the ancient Chinese curse, "may you live in _interesting_ times".


----------



## sgtaylor5

MacOS has been fairly reliable for me, but Windows on the other hand... I have a story:

I used to work at a 24 hour airport off-site parking facility. The assistant manager at the time was a wizard with Excel and he made a _very_ complicated spreadsheet that the cashiers would type their tickets into before the end of each shift. Lots of error correction and data wrangling for the information that the managers needed. The facility _never_ slept (even 9/11 didn't close the place; maybe a direct nuclear strike would have shut it down, but I don't think so... ) and neither did the computer. It wasn't ever rebooted, either. It got to the point that about three times a week, Excel would burp and your entire shift of tickets would vanish. That was a panic-inducing situation, as you had to have everything finished and correct at the end of your shift. Of course, few ever saved their work during their shift; they were too busy.

Late in my tenure there as the unofficial tech on site, I finally solved the situation by running a backup every Sunday morning at 3 am, the least busy time of the week.


----------



## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> I'm surprised to hear people still regularly turn their computers off these days.



I turn my desktop computer (now Mini)  off because that lets me switch off the desk power strip. Maybe the power savings are negligible, who knows, the really important thing is that all the fracking LEDs are off!

My MacBook Pro on the other hand can go months without a reboot or power off.


----------



## Cmaier

A new review from the camera world









						Apple M1 Max MacBook Pro (2021) review: Back with a vengeance
					

Apple's flagship M1 Max MacBook Pro offers a combination of performance, efficiency, build quality, and screen quality that you cannot find in any PC on the market, full stop.




					www.dpreview.com


----------



## ericwn

Renzatic said:


> Given that I'm on the cusp of buying into the Mac scene for the first time, I'd like to hear more about this. I always worked under the impression that MacOS had fairly decent memory management, and could clear up problematic bits and bobs lingering about without any issue.




Pretty similar experience to Cmaier above. Can’t give you exact specifics but I’m also forced to use a rather under-specced 8GB RAM MacBook Pro that’s a few years old already and don’t think that the business is gonna invest much in my case.


----------



## Renzatic

ericwn said:


> Pretty similar experience to Cmaier above. Can’t give you exact specifics but I’m also forced to use a rather under-specced 8GB RAM MacBook Pro that’s a few years old already and don’t think that the business is gonna invest much in my case.




From what Cmaier stated, it sounds more like random issues with various apps, rather than the OS itself. It's no less annoying, but slightly less scary.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> From what Cmaier stated, it sounds more like random issues with various apps, rather than the OS itself. It's no less annoying, but slightly less scary.



Yep. It’s very rare that the OS has issues that require a reboot. Last time it happened to me was a few months back where it suddenly decided it couldn’t connect to any networks. 

Almost every other “os” issue I’ve had is easily resolved by restarting Finder, which is easily done from a menu.


----------



## ericwn

Renzatic said:


> From what Cmaier stated, it sounds more like random issues with various apps, rather than the OS itself. It's no less annoying, but slightly less scary.




For sure, the system itself is pretty stable and the ability to just relaunch Finder is nice too.


----------



## Yoused

Is anyone still "Waiting for …" ? Maybe the thread title needs to be changed to "Enjoying …" and/or "Playing with …" ?


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> Is anyone still "Waiting for …" ? Maybe the thread title needs to be changed to "Enjoying …" and/or "Playing with …" ?



Done


----------



## throAU

So, enjoying the fact that this thing will run games like Baldurs Gate 3 with zero fan noise

Also, it would appear that old DOS games via GOG Mac apps work just fine with Rosetta.  As in, can not tell its running on a non-x86 machine.


----------



## Agent47

Yoused said:


> Is anyone still "Waiting for …" ? Maybe the thread title needs to be changed to "Enjoying …" and/or "Playing with …" ?



Still waiting… they charged my CC early today which usually is a sign indicating that they are ready to ship soon


----------



## Agent47

Btw … over at TOP I called out the chess troll the other day. Guess what, they banned me for insulting the guy… the guy otoh went unharmed even though he insulted pretty much the whole forum in at least one statement. What‘s wrong with the mods over there?


----------



## Renzatic

Agent47 said:


> Btw … over at TOP I called out tge chess troll. Guess what, they banned me for insulting the guy… the guy otoh went unharmed even though he ibsilted the whole forum. What‘s wrng with me mods over there?




They dum.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> They dum.




That chess thread is insane.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> That chess thread is insane.




I love a good trainwreck. Got a link?


----------



## Agent47

Renzatic said:


> I love a good trainwreck. Got a link?



Use at own risk https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-m1-cpu-gpu-speed-is-very-disappointing.2293062/page-32


----------



## Renzatic

Agent47 said:


> Use at own risk https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-m1-cpu-gpu-speed-is-very-disappointing.2293062/page-32




Pointless strife is fun.


----------



## mr_roboto

I caught a warning for using the world "troll" to describe the people who are trolling.


----------



## Renzatic

mr_roboto said:


> I caught a warning for using the world "troll" to describe the people who are trolling.




I think every single one of us posting here has received that warning at least once in their lives.

Wear it like a badge of honor. You are worthy.


----------



## Deleted member 215

I never got a warning for “troll”, but I once got a warning for saying someone was “not an intellectual” and then I got a warning for saying that I got a warning for that.


----------



## Agent47

I got banned for reponding to something like „Apple users are just posers, clueless morons“ with something like he‘s the biggest poser of all.
I got banned for it, he didn‘t. I have a feeling they protect trolls on purpose. Its like with newspapers and bad news: there is no bad news. Only no news is bad.
Heated discussions are great! For a forum, only no discussions are bad. The trolls keep the arguing going….


----------



## Agent47

TBL said:


> I never got a warning for “troll”, but I once got a warning for saying someone was “not an intellectual” and then I got a warning for saying that I got a warning for that.



Very similar thing happened to me


----------



## ronntaylor

TBL said:


> I never got a warning for “troll”, but I once got a warning for saying someone was “not an intellectual” and then I got a warning for saying that I got a warning for that.



Should've gone for the trifecta with a warning for the warning of the warning. Did I get that right?


----------



## Yoused

I skimmed that thread a bit, but found it … disappointing.


----------



## Herdfan

TBL said:


> I never got a warning for “troll”, but I once got a warning for saying someone was “not an intellectual” and then I got a warning for saying that I got a warning for that.




I got a warning for calling MYSELF a redneck.


----------



## Nycturne

Agent47 said:


> I got banned for it, he didn‘t. I have a feeling they protect trolls on purpose. Its like with newspapers and bad news: there is no bad news. Only no news is bad.
> Heated discussions are great! For a forum, only no discussions are bad. The trolls keep the arguing going….




One of the mods has spoken up basically saying that they don’t want the forum to turn into an echo chamber when discussion about this sort of thing came up. But honestly, it comes across as shallow when moderation policy is turning into a “why did you punch back?” style approach to dealing with trolls. It doesn’t work with bullies in school, it doesn’t work with folks stirring up nonsense on forums.

There’s a reason I’ve been on that forum for ~18 years, but lurked for most of it.


----------



## Cmaier

Highly relevant to our discussion of RISC vs. CISC, my little girl found this old piece of Exponential Technology swag I must have left abandoned in some cupboard and made me this Hanukkah present.


----------



## Joelist

Nycturne said:


> One of the mods has spoken up basically saying that they don’t want the forum to turn into an echo chamber when discussion about this sort of thing came up. But honestly, it comes across as shallow when moderation policy is turning into a “why did you punch back?” style approach to dealing with trolls. It doesn’t work with bullies in school, it doesn’t work with folks stirring up nonsense on forums.
> 
> There’s a reason I’ve been on that forum for ~18 years, but lurked for most of it.



The problem is that their approach has basically turned TOP into Troll City. In particular the Apple Silicon forum is infested with Trolls who spam FUD with impunity because they know the mods there actually protect them.


----------



## Joelist

Cmaier said:


> That chess thread is insane.



You mean the ridiculous Stockfish thread where it was apparent early on the OP was both using a non-native version of it AND using the wrong settings?


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> You mean the ridiculous Stockfish thread where it was apparent early on the OP was both using a non-native version of it AND using the wrong settings?



Yep.


----------



## ericwn

Herdfan said:


> I got a warning for calling MYSELF a redneck.




You should have reported yourself!


----------



## Renzatic

Joelist said:


> You mean the ridiculous Stockfish thread where it was apparent early on the OP was both using a non-native version of it AND using the wrong settings?




I read through a few pages of that thread, and yeah, it was pretty dumb, but I was expecting a deeper level of mouth frothing stupidity.

...guess that's just the burnout from my PRSI days talking.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> I read through a few pages of that thread, and yeah, it was pretty dumb, but I was expecting a deeper level of mouth frothing stupidity.
> 
> ...guess that's just the burnout from my PRSI days talking.




It's been cleaned up a few times by the mods


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> It's been cleaned up a few times by the mods




Those damn bastards are always ruining my fun...


----------



## Cmaier

Now MR closed that thread for new replies, just as people were interacting with the author of the dumb benchmark and suggesting optimizations.


----------



## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> Now MR closed that thread for new replies, just as people were interacting with the author of the dumb benchmark and suggesting optimizations.



I'm tempted to post a new thread titled, "Has anyone tested the Stockfish benchmark on an M1 Pro yet?", to get myself permabanned.


----------



## Herdfan

Back on topic, I just got the shipping notification for the offspring's M1 iMac.  

The problem is it is supposed to be delivered on the 13th.  She is coming home on the 9th.  So I will need to see if I can get FedEx to hold it at the ramp and let me come pick it up.


----------



## jbailey

Herdfan said:


> Back on topic, I just got the shipping notification for the offspring's M1 iMac.
> 
> The problem is it is supposed to be delivered on the 13th.  She is coming home on the 9th.  So I will need to see if I can get FedEx to hold it at the ramp and let me come pick it up.



They usually let you redirect deliveries to a FedEx store.


----------



## mr_roboto

Cmaier said:


> Now MR closed that thread for new replies, just as people were interacting with the author of the dumb benchmark and suggesting optimizations.



I feel that "dumb benchmark" sells Stockfish short.  In recent years it's been one of the strongest chess engines available to the general public. The two guys playing in the World Chess Championship right now, Magnus Carlsen and Ian Nepomniachtchi, probably both use it to analyze games during pre-game preparation.

Is it a good crossplatform benchmark, or well-optimized for M1?  Nope and nope.

Also it's an old open source project so it's had dozens of contributors over the years. That one guy in the thread wasn't its sole (heh heh) author or anything.


----------



## Cmaier

mr_roboto said:


> I feel that "dumb benchmark" sells Stockfish short.  In recent years it's been one of the strongest chess engines available to the general public. The two guys playing in the World Chess Championship right now, Magnus Carlsen and Ian Nepomniachtchi, probably both use it to analyze games during pre-game preparation.
> 
> Is it a good crossplatform benchmark, or well-optimized for M1?  Nope and nope.
> 
> Also it's an old open source project so it's had dozens of contributors over the years. That one guy in the thread wasn't its sole (heh heh) author or anything.




“Dumb benchmark” means “dumb to use as a benchmark representing anything other than one particular chess algorithm.”


----------



## throAU

Can't believe how little power this thing draws relative to other machines

Here's my GPU power with a bunch of Safari tabs, teams, music, activity monitor, Firefox and an external 4k display connected - when I'm just reading as opposed to moving things around...



**** GPU usage ****



GPU active frequency: 13 MHz

GPU active residency:   3.11% (389 MHz: 2.8% 486 MHz: .08% 648 MHz: .03% 778 MHz: .22% 972 MHz: .02% 1296 MHz:   0%)

GPU requested frequency: (389 MHz: 2.7% 486 MHz: .04% 648 MHz: .05% 778 MHz: .20% 972 MHz: .10% 1296 MHz:   0%)

GPU idle residency:  96.89%

GPU Power: 15 mW



15 MILLIWATTs


----------



## Citysnaps

throAU said:


> GPU Power: 15 mW




Amazing. About the power of a dimly lit LED.


----------



## mr_roboto

It's the iPhone heritage if you ask me.  Working on that tight a power budget means that Apple's GPU and CPU designers have gotten _really_ good at rapid power state transitions, and making sure the lowest-power active state provides enough oomph to be useful.


----------



## throAU

mr_roboto said:


> It's the iPhone heritage if you ask me.  Working on that tight a power budget means that Apple's GPU and CPU designers have gotten _really_ good at rapid power state transitions, and making sure the lowest-power active state provides enough oomph to be useful.




For sure.

And this is the way things always go.

Big machines - designed to be big machines get eaten from the bottom as performance vs. efficiency catches up to regular end user needs.

Desktop/server PC killed big iron (except for niche scenarios)
Laptop PC killed desktop PC for most people
Mobile killed laptop for many

The CPUs in these machine are as you say originally designed for the mobile market and have grown up from FAR more efficient roots.


----------



## Herdfan

The offspring's M1 iMac will be here Wednesday.  Thank goodness.

Should beat her here by about 4 hours, so there will be time to hide it.


----------



## ronntaylor

Herdfan said:


> The offspring's M1 iMac will be here Wednesday.  Thank goodness.
> 
> Should beat her here by about 4 hours, so there will be time to hide it.



Hope you didn't jinx it and it's delivered after she arrives!


----------



## Herdfan

ronntaylor said:


> Hope you didn't jinx it and it's delivered after she arrives!




Bite your tongue. 

I will know if it is Out for Delivery the day she is coming home.  So if it isn't, I hope I can divert it to Hold for Pickup.


----------



## Herdfan

ronntaylor said:


> Hope you didn't jinx it and it's delivered after she arrives!




It came a day early. 

But no signature was required.  The wife said they just ran the doorbell and left.


----------



## Nycturne

Herdfan said:


> It came a day early.
> 
> But no signature was required.  The wife said they just ran the doorbell and left.



Pandemic delivery policies still in effect, at least with UPS. Mine didn't require signature either.


----------



## Yoused

Herdfan said:


> It came a day early.
> 
> But no signature was required.  The wife said they just ran the doorbell and left.



You should very carefully unpack it and set it up so that when she first starts it up, the desktop picture will be you staring intently out at her, then repack it so that it looks unopened.


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> You should very carefully unpack it and set it up so that when she first starts it up, the desktop picture will be you staring intently out at her, then repack it so that it looks unopened.



I just got an M1 MBA to replace my daughter's decrepit old MBA (2011?) that no longer works.  Giving it to her for christmas. She's 13. Think she'd appreciate a portrait of me as her desktop background?


----------



## Herdfan

Yoused said:


> You should very carefully unpack it and set it up so that when she first starts it up, the desktop picture will be you staring intently out at her, then repack it so that it looks unopened.




Classic.  

Might have to try that.  Certainly would be a step up from changing her Netflix profile name.


----------



## Herdfan

Cmaier said:


> I just got an M1 MBA to replace my daughter's decrepit old MBA (2011?) that no longer works.  Giving it to her for christmas. She's 13. Think she'd appreciate a portrait of me as her desktop background?




I got a lot of crap from the extended family for buying her a refurb MBP for Christmas when she was 11, but it got her through 5.5 years of middle school and HS.  I seriously doubt a Best Buy special HP or Dell or Acer would have survived 6 years and been as good the last day as it was the first.  She gave it to a friend and last I heard it was still running fine.

Best part was her Keynote presentations looked much different than the stock PP presentations the rest of her classmates used.  Teachers probably thought she just put more effort into them. 

My only worry about setting it up is she will see it on the Apple account.    I made sure to not use our family me.com account to order it.


----------



## SuperMatt

For those experiencing issues with external displays, this interview is helpful. Even if you’re not, it explains why these issues occur.









						This is why your external monitor looks awful on an M1 Mac
					

Q&A with the developer of BetterDummy: from macOS secrets to his motivations




					www.theregister.com


----------



## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> For those experiencing issues with external displays, this interview is helpful. Even if you’re not, it explains why these issues occur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why your external monitor looks awful on an M1 Mac
> 
> 
> Q&A with the developer of BetterDummy: from macOS secrets to his motivations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theregister.com



My employer handed me a 27” 4k samsung monitor today and i plugged my m1 max MBP into it. Seemed fine, though it took me a few minutes to figure out i had to use the monitor’s port 2 to get 60Hz.   First time I’ll be regularly using an external monitor.  Seems fun.


----------



## chengengaun

Yoused said:


> You should very carefully unpack it and set it up so that when she first starts it up, the desktop picture will be you staring intently out at her, then repack it so that it looks unopened.



I can imagine the snow leopard wallpaper slowly morphing into the face…


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> My employer handed me a 27” 4k samsung monitor today and i plugged my m1 max MBP into it. Seemed fine, though it took me a few minutes to figure out i had to use the monitor’s port 2 to get 60Hz.   First time I’ll be regularly using an external monitor.  Seems fun.



Is a trackpad good enough for 27"? I recently bought a Kensington SlimBlade trackball, and man is that a sweet thing. It would be ideal for a big monitor.


----------



## Agent47

Got shipping confirmation on monday. It’s been sitting in Eindhoven/Netherlands for 2 days now…


----------



## User.45

Yoused said:


> Is a trackpad good enough for 27"? I recently bought a Kensington SlimBlade trackball, and man is that a sweet thing. It would be ideal for a big monitor.



I think the trackpad is one of the best features of macs, but it's also because how fine-tuned they are with  screen size and I can get the arrow from one corner to the other corner with a single stroke. I only use mice for external screen but for those, exclusively.


----------



## throAU

I use a trackpad with multiple displays, including a 27" 4k external display.

Its no better/worse than using a mouse with it.


----------



## User.45

throAU said:


> I use a trackpad with multiple displays, including a 27" 4k external display.
> 
> Its no better/worse than using a mouse with it.



Are you able to get the cursor from one corner to the other in a single stroke? 
At least for me, a *good* mouse is way better. 

But different folks, different strokes.


----------



## throAU

P_X said:


> Are you able to get the cursor from one corner to the other in a single stroke?
> At least for me, a *good* mouse is way better.
> 
> But different folks, different strokes.




Yup, you need to flick faster.  the faster you move your finger, the further the cursor goes for the distance you move it.

Additionally (I haven't done this though) you can also adjust the trackpad tracking speed in preferences.


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> Is a trackpad good enough for 27"? I recently bought a Kensington SlimBlade trackball, and man is that a sweet thing. It would be ideal for a big monitor.



I was thinking of getting one of those. How do you like it?


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> Is a trackpad good enough for 27"? I recently bought a Kensington SlimBlade trackball, and man is that a sweet thing. It would be ideal for a big monitor.



Trackpad works fine. I’ve never liked trackballs.


----------



## throAU

Cmaier said:


> Trackpad works fine. I’ve never liked trackballs.




same here, they feel weird to use with my thumb.  I did/do like the idea, to basically have a mouse that you don't need a heap of desk area for to move it around, but just could never gel with them.


----------



## Yoused

throAU said:


> they feel weird to use with my thumb



Yeah, I do not like thumb trackballs. The Kensingtons I have used have a large fingertip ball. But even when I had a PB140 all those years ago and the ball was under my thumb, I still moved my hand down to use a finger on it.


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> Yeah, I do not like thumb trackballs. The Kensingtons I have used have a large fingertip ball. But even when I had a PB140 all those years ago and the ball was under my thumb, I still moved my hand down to use a finger on it.



I used to like the Turbo Mouse - with the big trackball you used with fingers, not thumb. Kind of like the old Centipede or Missile Command games.


----------



## Nycturne

I tried trackballs years ago with stuff similar to the Turbo Mouse. Never could quite get the precision I wanted from it compared to a mouse. Probably something to do with mostly playing games at that age too. Liked the ergonomics of it though.


----------



## User.45

throAU said:


> Yup, you need to flick faster.  the faster you move your finger, the further the cursor goes for the distance you move it.
> 
> Additionally (I haven't done this though) you can also adjust the trackpad tracking speed in preferences.



Yeah I did that too in the past, but my experience was that since you had to accelerate the movement and use the longer travel, the accuracy decreased in the arm movements required increased. So to me, it came with unnecessary and fatigue and sometimes joint pain, Are you a significant compromise in ergonomics. 

That said My work Monitor is a 34 inch uptra wide screen, And most of the radiology softwares are optimize for mice. 



Nycturne said:


> I tried trackballs years ago with stuff similar to the Turbo Mouse. Never could quite get the precision I wanted from it compared to a mouse. Probably something to do with mostly playing games at that age too. Liked the ergonomics of it though.



The most fascinating pointing devices I’ve ever seen are the vertical mice which are designed to avoid placing any pressure on the carpal ligament. Carpal tunnel syndrome is a bitch and its really common, just underdiagnosed.


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> Yeah I did that too in the past, but my experience was that since you had to accelerate the movement and use the longer travel, the accuracy decreased in the arm movements required increased. So to me, it came with unnecessary and fatigue and sometimes joint pain, Are you a significant compromise in ergonomics.
> 
> That said My work Monitor is a 34 inch uptra wide screen, And most of the radiology softwares are optimize for mice.
> 
> 
> The most fascinating pointing devices I’ve ever seen are the vertical mice which are designed to avoid placing any pressure on the carpal ligament. Carpal tunnel syndrome is a bitch and its really common, just underdiagnosed.



I’ve got carpal. Best thing I found for it was a Wacom pen/tablet as a mouse.  But trackpad works almost as well for me.


----------



## Cmaier

I just ordered the Magic Keyboard with touchID - I use a Magic Keyboard at work, and now that I have repositioned my MBP because of the new monitor they gave me, I am getting sick of having to reach out to unlock the machine constantly. Unlock with Apple Watch also makes me reach out - says my signal is too weak otherwise.


----------



## Yoused

I have heard that everyone's _gluteus maximus_ is unique – perhaps Apple could develop a Bluetooth seat cushion that would identify a person's buttprint and unlock your device automatically when you sit down. With, of course, the flexibility to account for stuff in your hip pockets.


----------



## throAU

Yoused said:


> I have heard that everyone's _gluteus maximus_ is unique – perhaps Apple could develop a Bluetooth seat cushion that would identify a person's buttprint and unlock your device automatically when you sit down. With, of course, the flexibility to account for stuff in your hip pockets.




We're sort of getting there, but I want multi-factor transparent auth.

e.g.,

any two (or more) of:

touchid, faceid, presence of watch, necklace, ring, rfid thing, voiceprint.


----------



## chengengaun

Yoused said:


> I have heard that everyone's _gluteus maximus_ is unique – perhaps Apple could develop a Bluetooth seat cushion that would identify a person's buttprint and unlock your device automatically when you sit down. With, of course, the flexibility to account for stuff in your hip pockets.



I guess the cushion might even ask us to wiggle a bit for good measure...

Meanwhile, I just set up a CCC backup solution on an SSD (SanDisk Extreme Pro). At first I felt that I was being profligate in using SSD as a backup drive, but oh my the initial backup was fast - 850GB in 16 minutes. The CPU did run at 550% which warmed up the Mac a little. I might start to back up more frequently and while on the move (the latter was what prompted me to get the SSD) which I guess is a good thing.


----------



## User.45

I feel sorta tempted to get a 16" because I think the screen could really be helpful for work. A few questions came up recently:

1. I'm wondering how the lowest light setting compares to the old MBP/MBAs? I've been historically having to cut the extra light emission using Flux when I use the machine in the bedroom. 

2. How fast is the SSD on these machines? I had a difficult time finding benchmarks on this.

3. Any opinion about the speakers? All I need them for is to play some Miles Davis in my office without distortio when I feel like it. My MBA can't do that really... These web reviews sometimes have these ridiculous expectations for small form speakers to defy physics. 

4. Any concerns re the touch pad. Some claimed the touch pads were different compared to the 2020 series?!


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> I feel sorta tempted to get a 16" because I think the screen could really be helpful for work. A few questions came up recently:
> 
> 1. I'm wondering how the lowest light setting compares to the old MBP/MBAs? I've been historically having to cut the extra light emission using Flux when I use the machine in the bedroom.
> 
> 2. How fast is the SSD on these machines? I had a difficult time finding benchmarks on this.
> 
> 3. Any opinion about the speakers? All I need them for is to play some Miles Davis in my office without distortio when I feel like it. My MBA can't do that really... These web reviews sometimes have these ridiculous expectations for small form speakers to defy physics.
> 
> 4. Any concerns re the touch pad. Some claimed the touch pads were different compared to the 2020 series?!




Seems to me that the lowest light setting is approximately the same as the lowest on my 2016 15” MBP, but the contrast is much better at that setting because the screen is black and not a dull gray.

As for the SSD, it’s faster than any other Mac afaik, but I didn’t benchmark it.

The speakers are definitely the best ever on a MacBook. It actually sounds like a decent low end bookshelf speaker.  

Touchpad is fine - no difference at all from 2016MBP, 2018MB, or 2020MBA that I can tell.


----------



## User.45

Cmaier said:


> Seems to me that the lowest light setting is approximately the same as the lowest on my 2016 15” MBP, but the contrast is much better at that setting because the screen is black and not a dull gray.
> 
> As for the SSD, it’s faster than any other Mac afaik, but I didn’t benchmark it.
> 
> The speakers are definitely the best ever on a MacBook. It actually sounds like a decent low end bookshelf speaker.
> 
> Touchpad is fine - no difference at all from 2016MBP, 2018MB, or 2020MBA that I can tell.



Thanks! This all make sense. I'm getting increasingly frustrated about the quality of reviews lately, but maybe it's just me using DuckDuckGo and not Google with "inferior" search results. 


I've had a 2017 "15 for work and it felt too big, but TBH with my kids around I no longer can get work done off my couch, so I doubt size would make a difference anymore.


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> Thanks! This all make sense. I'm getting increasingly frustrated about the quality of reviews lately, but maybe it's just me using DuckDuckGo and not Google with "inferior" search results.
> 
> 
> I've had a 2017 "15 for work and it felt too big, but TBH with my kids around I no longer can get work done off my couch, so I doubt size would make a difference anymore.



Coming from the 2016 15”, the 2021 16” is definitely much bigger and heavier.  Reminds me of the old 17”, though not quite as big and heavy.


----------



## chengengaun

P_X said:


> 2. How fast is the SSD on these machines? I had a difficult time finding benchmarks on this.



There's a summary of SSD speed for the various capacity at the other place. The read/write speeds are above 5,000MB/s except for the base 14" model, I think.



> 3. Any opinion about the speakers? All I need them for is to play some Miles Davis in my office without distortio when I feel like it. My MBA can't do that really... These web reviews sometimes have these ridiculous expectations for small form speakers to defy physics.



The speakers are really good. I use it to listen to classical music without distortion. The low-frequency bass coming from these small speakers is remarkable.



> 4. Any concerns re the touch pad. Some claimed the touch pads were different compared to the 2020 series?!



The touch pad is again fine and I do not feel any difference between the new one and the previous models.


----------



## Renzatic

Agent47 said:


> Got shipping confirmation on monday. It’s been sitting in Eindhoven/Netherlands for 2 days now…




The Dutch are using your computer to play Tomb Raider!


----------



## User.45

chengengaun said:


> There's a summary of SSD speed for the various capacity at the other place. The read/write speeds are above 5,000MB/s except for the base 14" model, I think.



Insane!!! I think i'll pass on the 32Gb RAM then. This SSD is probably faster than RAM few years ago (ignoring latency), so I'll just get a 2TB machine.



chengengaun said:


> The speakers are really good. I use it to listen to classical music without distortion. The low-frequency bass coming from these small speakers is remarkable.



This I'd be happy about. 



chengengaun said:


> The touch pad is again fine and I do not feel any difference between the new one and the previous models.



Thanks. I have no idea why people said it is different. 




Cmaier said:


> Coming from the 2016 15”, the 2021 16” is definitely much bigger and heavier.  Reminds me of the old 17”, though not quite as big and heavy.



The 17" takes me back to some exciting times. That was one remarkable machine...and huge, LOL. I'll probably have to go with 14". 


Thank you all, this has been very helpful figuring things out.


----------



## SuperMatt

P_X said:


> Insane!!! I think i'll pass on the 32Gb RAM then. This SSD is probably faster than RAM few years ago (ignoring latency), so I'll just get a 2TB machine.
> 
> 
> This I'd be happy about.
> 
> 
> Thanks. I have no idea why people said it is different.
> 
> 
> 
> The 17" takes me back to some exciting times. That was one remarkable machine...and huge, LOL. I'll probably have to go with 14".
> 
> 
> Thank you all, this has been very helpful figuring things out.



The screen on the 16 is great. Unless you’re going to travel with it all the time, I think it’s worth the little bit of extra weight; it’s not huge like the old 17. The trackpad might have a slightly stronger force-touch? I’ve got the 16” Intel from work to compare it, and I can actually hear the force touch on the new 16”. The screen looks brighter and clearer to my eyes. It doesn’t keep your lap warm like the Intel one.


----------



## User.45

SuperMatt said:


> The screen on the 16 is great. Unless you’re going to travel with it all the time, I think it’s worth the little bit of extra weight; it’s not huge like the old 17.



It's a dilemma... In the past, I used to be the most prolific on trips, I can finish a writing a full paper, a poster, or read a novel on a transatlantic flight. So even if trips happened every few months only, these were absolute homeruns and this is why I got a 13" MBA. But with kids, the only realistic expectation is stay sane. 



SuperMatt said:


> The trackpad might have a slightly stronger force-touch? I’ve got the 16” Intel from work to compare it, and I can actually hear the force touch on the new 16”. The screen looks brighter and clearer to my eyes. It doesn’t keep your lap warm like the Intel one.



I hated the first iterations of force touch as I was using the mechanical one on my 2014 MBP until 2020. I had a 15" 2017 from work and I disliked it, but I think the 2020MBA's (virtual) travel may be a little deeper. The physical touchpad was better for drag and drop used concurrently with 3-finger gestures. I'm also baffled that PowerPoint is the only software I use that uses the feedback feature of the touchpad.


----------



## Nycturne

P_X said:


> The 17" takes me back to some exciting times. That was one remarkable machine...and huge, LOL. I'll probably have to go with 14".




Just to add, this machine is more like the 2015 15” MBP in size than the old 17”. A little thinner, a little less wide, but a little deeper than the 2015.


----------



## Citysnaps

Though I'm 100% satisfied with my M1 MBA, the 14" MBP sure is tempting.  Especially as I seem to be LR processing photos a lot more lately with my MBA, and a step up in display would be nice.   The better sound would also be a nice plus.

Speaking of touchpads...  Apple certainly nailed that with their haptics. Every great once in a while I look at it when pressing just to see if can catch it moving.


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> Coming from the 2016 15”, the 2021 16” is definitely much bigger and heavier.  Reminds me of the old 17”, though not quite as big and heavy.



My mom had a 17" G4 back in the day. Seems to me that that one had the speakers on the sides as well. Personally, I would prefer they make the keys a mm smaller to squeeze a keypad in, and maybe move the speakers down or something. Or at least offer a wide keyboard option.


----------



## Nycturne

citypix said:


> Speaking of touchpads...  Apple certainly nailed that with their haptics. Every great once in a while I look at it when pressing just to see if can catch it moving.




Yeah, I have to agree on this. While I’m not a fan of the deeper force press (and turn it off), every time I have to use a Windows laptop, I keep getting reminded just how good Apple’s trackpads are.

Considering Apple has been selling them this way since 2015 (and still had industry leading designs before that), I’m surprised that I haven’t found a competitor in the same ballpark yet.


----------



## Agent47

Renzatic said:


> The Dutch are using your computer to play Tomb Raider!



Seems the Dutch are done with Lara. Its now the East Germans (Leipzig) playing her. Tracking still claims it‘ll be delivered tomorrow which would be surprising. Fingers crossed


----------



## Cmaier

Agent47 said:


> Seems the Dutch are done with Lara. Its now the East Germans (Leipzig) playing her. Tracking still claims it‘ll be delivered tomorrow which would be surprising. Fingers crossed



Wir haben Ihren Computer und wir spielen gern mit er.  Sie können ihn haben nur wann wir sagen Sie ihn haben können.


----------



## User.45

Cmaier said:


> Wir haben Ihren Computer und wir spielen gern mit er.  Sie können ihn haben nur wann wir sagen Sie ihn haben können.



Zusätzlich, Lara Croft ist geil. 
- Herzlichen Glückwunsch. Die Zoll Volk

(or something like this)


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> Zusätzlich, Lara Croft ist geil.
> - Herzlichen Glückwunsch. Die Zoll Volk
> 
> (or something like this)




Das ist auch eine Möglichkeit.


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> Wir haben Ihren Computer und wir spielen gern mit er.  Sie können ihn haben nur wann wir sagen Sie ihn haben können.



You post in _Deutsch_ from time to time but cannot seem to come up with the classic and popular _backpfeifengesicht_ when you really need it?


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> You post in _Deutsch_ from time to time but cannot seem to come up with the classic and popular _backpfeifengesicht_ when you really need it?




Did I miss an appropriate place to use it?  Schade.


----------



## Hrafn

Yoused said:


> You post in _Deutsch_ from time to time but cannot seem to come up with the classic and popular _backpfeifengesicht_ when you really need it?



My new M1 MacBook Pro tells me that's a slappable face, but also Baking Pipe Face.  What do you consider a baking pipe face?


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> My new M1 MacBook Pro tells me that's a slappable face, but also Baking Pipe Face.  What do you consider a baking pipe face?




Now that i am thinking about it, i did say someone had a punchable face on here once, didn’t I?


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> Now that i am thinking about it, i did say someone had a punchable face on here once, didn’t I?



I did link to your post, I think.


----------



## Citysnaps

Cmaier said:


> Now that i am thinking about it, i did say someone had a punchable face on here once, didn’t I?




Right off the bat I I can think of a couple of politicians.


----------



## Yoused

citypix said:


> Right off the bat I I can think of a couple of politicians.



As I recall, the face that got that word going strong was Shkreli.


----------



## Citysnaps

Yoused said:


> As I recall, the face that got that word going strong was Shkreli.




He certainly qualifies!


----------



## Joelist

The SSDs are in the 7GB /sec performance speed level and the extremely high memory bandwidth amps it up even more.
The mouse pad is best of breed As is usual for Apple. Speakers are awesome and the display is something to be experienced.


----------



## Yoused

For me, x86 was a dark time for Apple. I bought a G5 tower about ten years ago, when my Cube's power supply died, but have rather studiously avoided the Intel Macs, opting instead for using an iPad most of the time. I expect to get a Mini with the next iteration.

Years ago, I looked at CPU architecture and wondered whether it had a real impact on the overlying design of the system. 68K seemed to me better than 8086 for a low-level programmer, at least way back then, so it seemed like the things I liked about Mac floated up from the more friendly metal beneath. Thus, I have a good feeling about where Apple will be going with their hardware and software in the future. I mean, as long as they do not go all lockdown on us.


----------



## LIVEFRMNYC

P_X said:


> I feel sorta tempted to get a 16" because I think the screen could really be helpful for work. A few questions came up recently:
> 
> 1. I'm wondering how the lowest light setting compares to the old MBP/MBAs? I've been historically having to cut the extra light emission using Flux when I use the machine in the bedroom.
> 
> 2. How fast is the SSD on these machines? I had a difficult time finding benchmarks on this.
> 
> 3. Any opinion about the speakers? All I need them for is to play some Miles Davis in my office without distortio when I feel like it. My MBA can't do that really... These web reviews sometimes have these ridiculous expectations for small form speakers to defy physics.
> 
> 4. Any concerns re the touch pad. Some claimed the touch pads were different compared to the 2020 series?!




16' Max/ 2TB.  Just received in couple days ago.

I get an average Write 7200mb and Read 5500mb.   Using BlackMagic Disk Test.   Most likely 4TB and 8TB have faster speeds. 

The speakers are the best I've ever heard on a laptop. I haven't noticed any distortion yet, even at max volume.  I hope this sets the standard for other manufacturers.

The TouchPad feels exactly the same as my last MBP which was a 2018 15'


----------



## Herdfan

Yoused said:


> For me, x86 was a dark time for Apple.




Perhaps.  But it brought a lot of new users into the fold.  I would have never bought a Mac had I not been able to run Windows on it.  Now that was 10+ years ago and things have changed for sure.  But back then I had to have Windows so without a way to run it on a Mac, I would still probably be a Windows user.

And new users increase demand which strengthens the line.


----------



## Joelist

Herdfan said:


> Perhaps.  But it brought a lot of new users into the fold.  I would have never bought a Mac had I not been able to run Windows on it.  Now that was 10+ years ago and things have changed for sure.  But back then I had to have Windows so without a way to run it on a Mac, I would still probably be a Windows user.
> 
> And new users increase demand which strengthens the line.



Interestingly, Apple Silicon is bringing in a lot of new Mac users too. Mac Sales have gone WAY up since M1 and its brethren became available. Mac is expected by some sources to be at double its pre M1 market share and to increase yet again in 2022.


----------



## User.45

Joelist said:


> Interestingly, Apple Silicon is bringing in a lot of new Mac users too. Mac Sales have gone WAY up since M1 and its brethren became available. Mac is expected by some sources to be at double its pre M1 market share and to increase yet again in 2022.



And it finally deserves so. My remaining major concern re M1 is the partial compatibility with research software. 

I'm wondering though. @Cmaier specifically said what I've been experiencing too: the reliability of MacOS had gotten much worse over the past 10 years. Catalina was a clusterf and I'm still having software related reliability issues on a daily basis.


----------



## Cmaier

Herdfan said:


> Perhaps.  But it brought a lot of new users into the fold.  I would have never bought a Mac had I not been able to run Windows on it.  Now that was 10+ years ago and things have changed for sure.  But back then I had to have Windows so without a way to run it on a Mac, I would still probably be a Windows user.
> 
> And new users increase demand which strengthens the line.




For me it was UNIX. My roommate in college had a next cube, which i lusted over. And I had spent about a decade on various Unix boxes (RS-6000’s and Suns (and once in awhile an SGI box)at RPI, then NetBSD on x86 at Exponential, Solaris on SPARC at Sun, and Sun and AMD boxes at AMD), so the idea of having a real tcsh, plus a NeXT-like veneer (I was not a huge fan of the common unix guis), sounded awesome.  Being able to run parallels or bootcamp was worth bonus points, though I stopped doing that about 6 months in.

What’s funny is that despite having a very unusual Mac at home before that, it sat in my garage unused because I couldn’t stand the classic Mac OS.


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> And it finally deserves so. My remaining major concern re M1 is the partial compatibility with research software.
> 
> I'm wondering though. @Cmaier specifically said what I've been experiencing too: the reliability of MacOS had gotten much worse over the past 10 years. Catalina was a clusterf and I'm still having software related reliability issues on a daily basis.




Still more stable then windows (which i still have to use sometimes at work), at least.  *Most* of the problems I have with recent MacOS releases are related to “special” functions (like airdrop, etc.) that didn’t exist in the Leopard days. However, preview.app constantly goes nuts, and finder does act up more than it used to (though a lot of those problems seem to have gone away now that none of my machines are still on Catalina).


----------



## User.45

Cmaier said:


> Still more stable then windows (which i still have to use sometimes at work), at least.



Zero doubt about that.


Cmaier said:


> *Most* of the problems I have with recent MacOS releases are related to “special” functions (like airdrop, etc.) that didn’t exist in the Leopard days. However, preview.app constantly goes nuts, and finder does act up more than it used to (though a lot of those problems seem to have gone away now that none of my machines are still on Catalina).



I'm having these exact issues. I always have about 4-5 PDFs open in preview and the current preview has been the most unstable ever.


----------



## Yoused

P_X said:


> the reliability of MacOS had gotten much worse over the past 10 years



What we can hope for is that the closer unification of macOS with iOS/iPadOS under one architecture will help Apple refine the whole instead of having to deal with both x86 and ARM at the same time. No guarantees, obviously, but having tailored hardware to support the system(s) should make everything work better. We can hope.


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> Zero doubt about that.
> 
> I'm having these exact issues. I always have about 4-5 PDFs open in preview and the current preview has been the most unstable ever.



To be fair, though, I have had issues with preview for years - at one point I got a call from Apple asking for test cases, but because of confidentiality I couldn’t give them any.  Typical problems have been things like search stops working, sidebar starts being blank, etc.  I have a subscription to acrobat pro which I fall back on (I need it for redactions and OCR anyway), but it would be nice if preview didn’t get screwed up all the time.


----------



## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> Wir haben Ihren Computer und wir spielen gern mit er.  Sie können ihn haben nur wann wir sagen Sie ihn haben können.



Ich habe ihn den Ossis entrissen. Heute gibts Schnitzel!

Btw, yesterday those OpenSTEP based Linix distros/DEs (Etoile, Nextspace, GNUstep) were feytured in Flipboard/HackerNews. Anyone an idea what‘s up with this?

I loke those projects a lot, too bad they are all pretty much abandoned


----------



## B01L

Yoused said:


> I expect to get a Mini with the next iteration.




Same here, awaiting a M1 Max-powered Mac mini ( 32-core GPU / 64GB RAM / 1TB SSD / 10 Gb Ethernet )...



Cmaier said:


> ...and once in awhile an SGI box...




I see the new Apple silicon Macs as a modern version of the old SGI O2 workstations...?



Cmaier said:


> What’s funny is that despite having* a very unusual Mac *at home before that, it sat in my garage unused because I couldn’t stand the classic Mac OS.




A very unusual Mac...? You hiding a Daystar Digital Skylab in your garage...?!? ;^p


----------



## Cmaier

B01L said:


> Same here, awaiting a M1 Max-powered Mac mini ( 32-core GPU / 64GB RAM / 1TB SSD / 10 Gb Ethernet )...
> 
> 
> 
> I see the new Apple silicon Macs as a modern version of the old SGI O2 workstations...?
> 
> 
> 
> A very unusual Mac...? You hiding a Daystar Digital Skylab in your garage...?!? ;^p




No. In a sense even more unusual.


----------



## B01L

Cmaier said:


> No. In a sense even more unusual.




Come on dude, spill...!


----------



## Cmaier

B01L said:


> Come on dude, spill...!











						X704 - Exponential Technology - WikiChip
					

X704 (stylized as X704) was a family of high-performance PowerPC microprocessors announced by Exponential Technology in 1996. At the time, these chips ran over three times the clock rate as Motorola's/IBM's or Intel's (albeit not as fast in direct performance). Exponential experienced a few...




					en.wikichip.org


----------



## B01L

Cmaier said:


> X704 - Exponential Technology - WikiChip
> 
> 
> X704 (stylized as X704) was a family of high-performance PowerPC microprocessors announced by Exponential Technology in 1996. At the time, these chips ran over three times the clock rate as Motorola's/IBM's or Intel's (albeit not as fast in direct performance). Exponential experienced a few...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikichip.org




Doh...!

Totally forgot about your Exponential connection...!


----------



## Yoused

I have a 512Ke out in the garage that I added a daughter card to for RAM & SCSI. Its shell has all the signatures of the original Macintosh team inside it (where most owners would never see them, but I did because of the mod).


----------



## jbailey

Yoused said:


> I have a 512Ke out in the garage that I added a daughter card to for RAM & SCSI. Its shell has all the signatures of the original Macintosh team inside it (where most owners would never see them, but I did because of the mod).



I had a 512k back when they were new and I added a card that plugged onto the RAM PALs that added 1.5 MB for a total of 2 MB. Workstation class 8 MHz 68000 computer with 2 MB in 1986. (No SCSI though). I added a 20 MB hard disk that plugged onto the Mac’s “high-speed” serial port. It needed a floppy be inserted to boot off of the HDD. 

It was a total hack but it worked until I could upgrade to a Mac Plus motherboard with SCSI and 4 MB RAM.


----------



## Yoused

jbailey said:


> I had a 512k back when they were new and I added a card that plugged onto the RAM PALs that added 1.5 MB for a total of 2 MB. Workstation class 8 MHz 68000 computer with 2 MB in 1986. (No SCSI though). I added a 20 MB hard disk that plugged onto the Mac’s “high-speed” serial port. It needed a floppy be inserted to boot off of the HDD.
> 
> It was a total hack but it worked until I could upgrade to a Mac Plus motherboard with SCSI and 4 MB RAM.



The 512Ke had the 800K floppy drive and the larger ROM. The guy that sold it to me for $500 in 1990 included a 400K external floppy (which sounded like a garbage truck), and the mouse was a laser type with a special grid mousepad. The daughtercard clipped onto the CPU, but it became iffy, so I had to solder a permanent connector onto the CPU. My HD was a 88Mb removable.

I wanted to program (for fun), but my budget was too tight at the time for programming software – then I discovered the interrupt switch on the side and worked my way up from there, writing ML code. When I was able to afford a programming tool (Symantec Pascal IIRC), I looked at the compiler's output and it was truly horrible.


----------



## jbailey

Yoused said:


> The 512Ke had the 800K floppy drive and the larger ROM. The guy that sold it to me for $500 in 1990 included a 400K external floppy (which sounded like a garbage truck), and the mouse was a laser type with a special grid mousepad. The daughtercard clipped onto the CPU, but it became iffy, so I had to solder a permanent connector onto the CPU. My HD was a 88Mb removable.
> 
> I wanted to program (for fun), but my budget was too tight at the time for programming software – then I discovered the interrupt switch on the side and worked my way up from there, writing ML code. When I was able to afford a programming tool (Symantec Pascal IIRC), I looked at the compiler's output and it was truly horrible.



Yeah, I did the update to the 512Ke a few years before the Mac Plus upgrade. It was needed to upgrade from MFS (?) to HFS.

I had a horrible Pascal compiler called TML Pascal that pretty much never produced valid 68K macOS code. I eventually switched to Forth and then I ended up paying crazy money to Apple for the the developer program and an early version of MPW (Macintosh Programmers Workshop) which was also pretty buggy.


----------



## Nycturne

Don’t want to interrupt the reminiscing too much, but wanted to share some more thoughts.

I think this laptop is my favorite to come along in a real long time. With some time off from work, I’ve been able to pour a few full days into side projects. A mix of Xcode+Simulator and Swift+Docker work. So far, I’ve finished each day with >20% battery left, and on track to hit around 10 hours of battery life. Being able to simply charge it overnight and not compromise on performance or noise when using it is something I haven’t had since my old Pismo with dual batteries. The hardware here really does get out of the way in that regard.

GPU heavy stuff is another matter, as you can start pulling the battery down into the 5 hour range with games and the like. But since I want GPU grunt more for CAD and Metal-acceleration in Affinity Photo, this isn’t a big problem for me. 

Haven’t used the different display profile modes on the display much yet as most of my photography is during trips, but so far they are exactly what I wanted for my hobby-level work in Affinity. Not something I would have asked for, but something I’ll happily take.

About the only complaint I’ve got right now is that Docker+qemu for amd64 containers is still buggy. Trying to build Swift projects using Docker Desktop tends to crash about as often as it succeeds at the moment when building my multi-arch containers. 


jbailey said:


> I had a horrible Pascal compiler called TML Pascal that pretty much never produced valid 68K macOS code. I eventually switched to Forth and then I ended up paying crazy money to Apple for the the developer program and an early version of MPW (Macintosh Programmers Workshop) which was also pretty buggy.




Can’t really top you folks on this stuff. I was aware of MPW and Apple’s documentation was still pretty Pascal heavy when I got started, but CodeWarrior was starting to become popular, so I decided to start with C/C++. Worked out well at least.


----------



## januarydrive7

Cmaier said:


> ... However, preview.app constantly goes nuts ...



If primary use case is viewing/annotating pdfs, I've had a generally positive experience with foxit pdf reader for macOS.  I really wish preview.app was more stable, as it's more lightweight and generally does what I want, but those times it does hiccup is quite annoying.


----------



## Cmaier

januarydrive7 said:


> If primary use case is viewing/annotating pdfs, I've had a generally positive experience with foxit pdf reader for macOS.  I really wish preview.app was more stable, as it's more lightweight and generally does what I want, but those times it does hiccup is quite annoying.



I use acrobat pro as my backup - I often need to do Bates-numbering, redactions, etc., so I need it around in any case.


----------



## SuperMatt

I use PDF Expert for light editing. I got a license as part of a bundle a few years back. It is pretty good.


----------



## Joelist

FYI Blender is getting ready to release its Apple Silicon build - based on the betas the speed jumps by something like 400-450% over their prior version. This makes sense and aligns with other applications I have seen experience massive speed jumps once they are using Metal.


----------



## User.45

Nycturne said:


> Haven’t used the different display profile modes on the display much yet as most of my photography is during trips, but so far they are exactly what I wanted for my hobby-level work in Affinity. Not something I would have asked for, but something I’ll happily take.



I haven't heard about this, but it sounds really interesting. Can you elaborate?


----------



## Nycturne

P_X said:


> I haven't heard about this, but it sounds really interesting. Can you elaborate?



The MBP XDR displays have the same software features as the 6K XDR. So there are a number of built in profiles aimed at different workflows. Each of these are different from a pure ICC profile, since they set the white point, gamut target, nit target, along with the gamma function and target. I can have a profile with a 5000K whitepoint, the screen locked to 120 nits, and using sRGB or P3 so that I have something relatively close to what I need for getting good matching with my photo printer. Or a version with a 6500K whitepoint if I'm targeting sharing digitally. And since these are persistent, they are easily switchable and you can produce your own tweaked versions, but the main tweak you'll likely make here is to adjust the nit level for SDR on the presets with locked brightness to set it appropriately for your working environment.

Photography gamuts are not represented here, with the focus on video instead. So no Adobe RGB, which is one downside. P3 is a relatively OK stand-in for hobby work IME. Another is that you have to use a spectroradiometer to adjust the the display. So the usual hobby thing of getting something like a ColorMunki (or whatever can be had for cheap) and using a tool like DisplayCAL to generate an ICC profile doesn't work on the internal display. Odds are it'd just make it worse rather than better anyways.

Is it a replacement for a pro monitor, especially if you are a photographer? Probably not. But it's the closest thing that Apple has made in a laptop to date, and having _some_ ability to do more discerning work in the field untethered is interesting in the Mac space.


----------



## User.45

Nycturne said:


> The MBP XDR displays have the same software features as the 6K XDR. So there are a number of built in profiles aimed at different workflows. Each of these are different from a pure ICC profile, since they set the white point, gamut target, nit target, along with the gamma function and target. I can have a profile with a 5000K whitepoint, the screen locked to 120 nits, and using sRGB or P3 so that I have something relatively close to what I need for getting good matching with my photo printer. Or a version with a 6500K whitepoint if I'm targeting sharing digitally. And since these are persistent, they are easily switchable and you can produce your own tweaked versions, but the main tweak you'll likely make here is to adjust the nit level for SDR on the presets with locked brightness to set it appropriately for your working environment.
> 
> Photography gamuts are not represented here, with the focus on video instead. So no Adobe RGB, which is one downside. P3 is a relatively OK stand-in for hobby work IME. Another is that you have to use a spectroradiometer to adjust the the display. So the usual hobby thing of getting something like a ColorMunki (or whatever can be had for cheap) and using a tool like DisplayCAL to generate an ICC profile doesn't work on the internal display. Odds are it'd just make it worse rather than better anyways.
> 
> Is it a replacement for a pro monitor, especially if you are a photographer? Probably not. But it's the closest thing that Apple has made in a laptop to date, and having _some_ ability to do more discerning work in the field untethered is interesting in the Mac space.
> 
> View attachment 10509



Neat! I've found internal screen calibration less and less useful since Snow Leopard, so this interesting. My student has a 14" and all I could say is that it's super bright.

-------

Did you guys notice the resistance on the keyboard being less than that of the 2020 MBA?


----------



## Joelist

Send Apple the feedback - they can probe;ly provide Adobe RGB in a software update. In any event the display is (as is Apple's norm) extremely well calibrated.


----------



## leman

I know am a little bit late tot he party, but my 16" M1 Max has finally arrived! Been using it the entire day and here are some observations:

  - It is big, larger than expected. The few mm difference to the 2019 16" model are much more dramatic in real world. The added weight however, that I do not notice at all. Much more evenly distributed than on my 2019 model. 
  - Despite the size and the more "brutal", industrial appearance, it almost appears more refined. The aluminum is impeccably polished, the sides pleasantly rounded. It just feels... good. 
 - The display is a game changer. It's subtle, but immediately noticeable, especially if you work with text a lot, like I do. There is this fluidity of operation that I have never had with any other device. The contrast and the black levels are insane. Even compared to an OLED. It is also very bright even on lower brightness levels. 
 - The notch is not noticeable at all. Completely seamless. 
 - It is wicked fast and responsive. Still need to benchmark it using my typical workflows, but so far my scripts seem to finish before they start and code is compiled in a blink of an eye. 
 - The webcam is fantastic, big improvement. 
 - I miss the Touch Bar. Using physical keys to adjust brightness and volume feels awkward. 
 - MagSafe is a useless gimmick. Give me another USB port on the right side.


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> I know am a little bit late tot he party, but my 16" M1 Max has finally arrived! Been using it the entire day and here are some observations:
> 
> - It is big, larger than expected. The few mm difference to the 2019 16" model are much more dramatic in real world. The added weight however, that I do not notice at all. Much more evenly distributed than on my 2019 model.
> - Despite the size and the more "brutal", industrial appearance, it almost appears more refined. The aluminum is impeccably polished, the sides pleasantly rounded. It just feels... good.
> - The display is a game changer. It's subtle, but immediately noticeable, especially if you work with text a lot, like I do. There is this fluidity of operation that I have never had with any other device. The contrast and the black levels are insane. Even compared to an OLED. It is also very bright even on lower brightness levels.
> - The notch is not noticeable at all. Completely seamless.
> - It is wicked fast and responsive. Still need to benchmark it using my typical workflows, but so far my scripts seem to finish before they start and code is compiled in a blink of an eye.
> - The webcam is fantastic, big improvement.
> - I miss the Touch Bar. Using physical keys to adjust brightness and volume feels awkward.
> - MagSafe is a useless gimmick. Give me another USB port on the right side.




Two biggest things i noticed are the amazing screen and the speakers.  I just realized I haven’t even used the webcam yet! I always zoom/teams/webex from my ipad. Will have to give it a try.


----------



## DT

Joelist said:


> FYI Blender is getting ready to release its Apple Silicon build - based on the betas the speed jumps by something like 400-450% over their prior version. This makes sense and aligns with other applications I have seen experience massive speed jumps once they are using Metal.




@Renzatic


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> @Renzatic




Already read the news, and seen the benchmarks. It's a got a bunch of nerds up in arms, arguing over where exactly the M1 lies on the Geforce scale of rendering quickness.

...tensions have begun escalating recently. I expect violence is inevitable.


----------



## Nycturne

P_X said:


> Neat! I've found internal screen calibration less and less useful since Snow Leopard, so this interesting. My student has a 14" and all I could say is that it's super bright.
> 
> -------
> 
> Did you guys notice the resistance on the keyboard being less than that of the 2020 MBA?




If you mean the contrast/brightness/gamma adjustment tool Apple has included for ages, yeah. It was mostly useful for getting CRTs in the ballpark. ICC profiles that measure a screen’s native gamut is still pretty useful with many consumer displays though. The XDR display just brings it up the next level closer to other pro displays.



Joelist said:


> Send Apple the feedback - they can probe;ly provide Adobe RGB in a software update. In any event the display is (as is Apple's norm) extremely well calibrated.



It’s been a couple years since this has rolled out for the 6K XDR, so I suspect it’s by design at this point.

The thing is, these profiles are for limiting the display from the native gamut to specific gamuts which are a subset. I can still work with documents in other profiles. It’s mostly a statement that this display cannot display Adobe RGB in a large enough percentage to really be accurate if you need that gamut fully represented for your work.


----------



## Herdfan

I have to admit I was stunned over just how fast this thing is.  It is an iMac with 16GB Ram, which I would have upgraded to 32 had it been an option, but turns out, it really isn't necessary.

Maybe they will make one with a bigger monitor as I have gotten accustomed to my 27".    Really nice machine and since I moved over to QB Online and have a Surface, I really don't have a need for the x86 chip anymore.


----------



## Cmaier

Herdfan said:


> I have to admit I was stunned over just how fast this thing is.  It is an iMac with 16GB Ram, which I would have upgraded to 32 had it been an option, but turns out, it really isn't necessary.
> 
> Maybe they will make one with a bigger monitor as I have gotten accustomed to my 27".    Really nice machine and since I moved over to QB Online and have a Surface, I really don't have a need for the x86 chip anymore.




Yeah, the 27” is coming this year.  Conflicting rumors as to whether it is a “pro” unit with MiniLED (and cheese grater aesthetic), or a bigger version of the new imac (in pastel colors).  Also not clear if it will have the existing range of CPUs or have an option for something beefier (like a 2x or 4x Max).  Most recent rumor is the “colorful, no miniLED” rumor, but it doesn’t talk about CPU.


----------



## Yoused

I just saw a thread on how the maximum display brightness was limited to HDR content, and it seemed a lot like nit-picking.


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> I just saw a thread on how the maximum display brightness was limited to HDR content, and it seemed a lot like nit-picking.




Yeah, that’s a bit of a topic over there. The limitation is not a secret, but people always want what Apple doesn’t give them.  Not clear whether it’s a technical limitation (e.g. HDR only needs to light up *some* of the screen to peak brightness, and lighting it all up would cause too much heat or sink too much current), or just Apple making a design decision (high full screen brightness can be unpleasant, depending on circumstances, and can cause color calibration discrepancies, or can cause worse halo effects).  

Would be interesting to know whether there is a software hack to turn up the brightness (which is the OP’s question), but I doubt it would be very useful for most people.  The screens on these things are pretty bright, and I could only see needing more brightness if I was outside.


----------



## leman

Cmaier said:


> Yeah, that’s a bit of a topic over there. The limitation is not a secret, but people always want what Apple doesn’t give them.  Not clear whether it’s a technical limitation (e.g. HDR only needs to light up *some* of the screen to peak brightness, and lighting it all up would cause too much heat or sink too much current), or just Apple making a design decision (high full screen brightness can be unpleasant, depending on circumstances, and can cause color calibration discrepancies, or can cause worse halo effects).




Apple is pushing towards extended contrast range on all its devices and you can’t have that without some brightness reserves. That’s probably the main reason. Then, there are power consumption concerns.

With 500nits normal max brightness Apple is still way above the industry average for premium/workstation laptops, so I don’t see any problem. Of course, some people will want fully customizable experience, but it’s not what this product has been designed for, and that’s perfectly fine.


----------



## User.45

leman said:


> Apple is pushing towards extended contrast range on all its devices and you can’t have that without some brightness reserves. That’s probably the main reason. Then, there are power consumption concerns.
> 
> With 500nits normal max brightness Apple is still way above the industry average for premium/workstation laptops, so I don’t see any problem. Of course, some people will want fully customizable experience, but it’s not what this product has been designed for, and that’s perfectly fine.



Yes, more contrast means less visual discomfort, and it seems that about 400 nits, the discomfort starts rising quickly in OLED realm. 

Tedious paper on the topic


			https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/132776765.pdf


----------



## tomO2013

It’s funny with all the hoopla, nitpicking that I read about over at the other place about the M1 silicon itself, how fast it can run randomly chosen chess benchmarks compared to a 700W desktop workstation, folks often forget about what a generally great all around package the MBP’s 2021’s are. Especially so when it comes to screen quality compared to practically any other laptop on the market!

On a side note, while I generally really like to have more , bigger, better and faster processing performance (the raw performance of new M1 was very enticing),  it was truly the new screen that pushed me in the general direction to make such an expensive purchase.

Right now, I’m happy to wait a second or two for something to compile, if the machine is quiet and cool while it does so - I’ll do some back stretches while waiting or put on the kettle for a cup of tea.
But looking for hours at lines of text daily, or editing photos and videos - well my eyes immediately benefit from the new display. The new displays really have made the new MBP’s (for me anyway), a much more enjoyable workstation experience!


----------



## Nycturne

tomO2013 said:


> But looking for hours at lines of text daily, or editing photos and videos - well my eyes immediately benefit from the new display. The new displays really have made the new MBP’s (for me anyway), a much more enjoyable workstation experience!




Yup, having been doing some small side project work over the holiday break on the 16” MBP, this has made me miss my 5K iMac. The 38” ultra-wide monitor is nice, and better for sharing with a gaming PC, but a 6K 32” display that didn’t cost an arm and a leg would be very tempting.


----------



## User.45

tomO2013 said:


> It’s funny with all the hoopla, nitpicking that I read about over at the other place about the M1 silicon itself, how fast it can run randomly chosen chess benchmarks compared to a 700W desktop workstation, folks often forget about what a generally great all around package the MBP’s 2021’s are. Especially so when it comes to screen quality compared to practically any other laptop on the market!
> 
> On a side note, while I generally really like to have more , bigger, better and faster processing performance (the raw performance of new M1 was very enticing),  it was truly the new screen that pushed me in the general direction to make such an expensive purchase.
> 
> Right now, I’m happy to wait a second or two for something to compile, if the machine is quiet and cool while it does so - I’ll do some back stretches while waiting or put on the kettle for a cup of tea.
> But looking for hours at lines of text daily, or editing photos and videos - well my eyes immediately benefit from the new display. The new displays really have made the new MBP’s (for me anyway), a much more enjoyable workstation experience!



Hit the nail on the head. The overall experience makes these machines exceptional. 

That said, one of the weird things with Monterey is battery reserve mode. I’ve been finding the machine really slow for weeks now, and then i just realized, i had this mode activated about a month ago because i got frustrated about the machine dying on my while idling. I totally forgot about this. The fact that you can’t switch this on/off from the control center and that there is no indication of this mode being activated (not that I could  find) is a form of Apple’s soft approach to planned obsolescence.


----------



## SuperMatt

P_X said:


> Hit the nail on the head. The overall experience makes these machines exceptional.
> 
> That said, one of the weird things with Monterey is battery reserve mode. I’ve been finding the machine really slow for weeks now, and then i just realized, i had this mode activated about a month ago because i got frustrated about the machine dying on my while idling. I totally forgot about this. The fact that you can’t switch this on/off from the control center and that there is no indication of this mode being activated (not that I could  find) is a form of Apple’s soft approach to planned obsolescence.



If you click on the battery icon in the menu bar, it will tell you if you’re in low power mode.

I assume there’s *always* a utility for that when it comes to the Mac... and I was right. This one shows you in the menu bar without you having to click, and lets you toggle it there.









						🔋 Cooldown - Quickly toggle Low Power Mode
					

In macOS Monterey Apple introduced a new Low Power Mode for Mac. Cooldown is a simple menu bar app that allows you to quickly toggle Low Power Mode on and off.📝 Release Notes1.0 - Initial release1.1 - Added Cooldown Shortcut to circumvent root permission requirement. Quit app from Menu bar.1.2 -...




					goodsnooze.gumroad.com
				




Cheers!


----------



## User.45

SuperMatt said:


> If you click on the battery icon in the menu bar, it will tell you if you’re in low power mode.
> 
> I assume there’s *always* a utility for that when it comes to the Mac... and I was right. This one shows you in the menu bar without you having to click, and lets you toggle it there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🔋 Cooldown - Quickly toggle Low Power Mode
> 
> 
> In macOS Monterey Apple introduced a new Low Power Mode for Mac. Cooldown is a simple menu bar app that allows you to quickly toggle Low Power Mode on and off.📝 Release Notes1.0 - Initial release1.1 - Added Cooldown Shortcut to circumvent root permission requirement. Quit app from Menu bar.1.2 -...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goodsnooze.gumroad.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!



Thanks this explains. I use iStat For battery, since macOS removed remaining battery time indicators.


----------



## Yoused

Spoiler: all this talk about screen resolution






makes me nostalgic

(not really)


----------



## User.45

SuperMatt said:


> If you click on the battery icon in the menu bar, it will tell you if you’re in low power mode.
> 
> I assume there’s *always* a utility for that when it comes to the Mac... and I was right. This one shows you in the menu bar without you having to click, and lets you toggle it there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🔋 Cooldown - Quickly toggle Low Power Mode
> 
> 
> In macOS Monterey Apple introduced a new Low Power Mode for Mac. Cooldown is a simple menu bar app that allows you to quickly toggle Low Power Mode on and off.📝 Release Notes1.0 - Initial release1.1 - Added Cooldown Shortcut to circumvent root permission requirement. Quit app from Menu bar.1.2 -...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goodsnooze.gumroad.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!



TIL:
sudo pmset -a lowpowermode 1 # to turn it on  
sudo pmset -a lowpowermode 0  # to turn it off


----------



## DT

Any new murmurings about a Mini with an M1Pro / M1Max?  I've hit up the usual sources, but the rumors have changed much.

I'm actually a touch surprised they didn't one out with the 14/16" MBPs, or even mention anything about it.  Maybe the new product is evolving so substantially, it's a much longer development cycle.

*crosses fingers for Mini Pro*


----------



## Pumbaa

DT said:


> Any new murmurings about a Mini with an M1Pro / M1Max?  I've hit up the usual sources, but the rumors have changed much.
> 
> I'm actually a touch surprised they didn't one out with the 14/16" MBPs, or even mention anything about it.  Maybe the new product is evolving so substantially, it's a much longer development cycle.
> 
> *crosses fingers for Mini Pro*



Not heard anything new either.

Maybe they are planning something really sweet. Maybe they just didn’t have enough chips and prioritized the MBPs.


----------



## Hrafn

DT said:


> Any new murmurings about a Mini with an M1Pro / M1Max?  I've hit up the usual sources, but the rumors have changed much.
> 
> I'm actually a touch surprised they didn't one out with the 14/16" MBPs, or even mention anything about it.  Maybe the new product is evolving so substantially, it's a much longer development cycle.
> 
> *crosses fingers for Mini Pro*



If you weren't a robot, I'd suggest holding your breath waiting for the "mini pro".  As it is...

If it were a lower cost, upgradeable system, I'd be sorely tempted, but I've been waiting so long I've added it to my list of non-beliefs: Mini Pro, dragons, Loch Ness monster, wishes, etc.


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## Yoused

Hrafn said:


> … I've added it to my list of non-beliefs …


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## Joelist

I'm sure we'll get an Mi Pro Mini at least. They already have a chassis with enough cooling after all.


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## B01L

If there were no plans for a mid/high-end Mac mini, the "current" (2018) Intel-based (8th Gen Coffee Lake) Mac mini would have been discontinued when the M1 Mac mini was released...

I am of a mind that Apple will break the Mac mini lineup into at least two main products; a smaller Mac mini for the Mn-series SoCs, and the existing chassis for the Mn Pro/Max-series SoCs...


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## Nycturne

B01L said:


> If there were no plans for a mid/high-end Mac mini, the "current" (2018) Intel-based (8th Gen Coffee Lake) Mac mini would have been discontinued when the M1 Mac mini was released...
> 
> I am of a mind that Apple will break the Mac mini lineup into at least two main products; a smaller Mac mini for the Mn-series SoCs, and the existing chassis for the Mn Pro/Max-series SoCs...




Possibly. It’s also possible that we’ll see the Mac Mini switch to a new chassis across the board when it gets the higher end SoCs.

The original M1 Mini was the only desktop you could get with Apple Silicon for around half a year. I wound up with one as a test/dev platform for Apple Silicon because it was the cheapest way to get hardware for that purpose. I wouldn’t be too surprised if it turns out the current M1 Mini was a stopgap of sorts, so that there was something in this space while the longer term work was ongoing. I do hope they keep the baseline model for folks that just want a small NUC-like desktop, as the M1 Mini has been really good for that.


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## Cmaier

Nycturne said:


> Possibly. It’s also possible that we’ll see the Mac Mini switch to a new chassis across the board when it gets the higher end SoCs.
> 
> The original M1 Mini was the only desktop you could get with Apple Silicon for around half a year. I wound up with one as a test/dev platform for Apple Silicon because it was the cheapest way to get hardware for that purpose. I wouldn’t be too surprised if it turns out the current M1 Mini was a stopgap of sorts, so that there was something in this space while the longer term work was ongoing. I do hope they keep the baseline model for folks that just want a small NUC-like desktop, as the M1 Mini has been really good for that.




There have been rumors for the last year or so of something with a glass top, maybe sort of inspired by the old mac cube.


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## Nycturne

Cmaier said:


> There have been rumors for the last year or so of something with a glass top, maybe sort of inspired by the old mac cube.




Oh, I don’t doubt it. I just more think that the existing chassis is EoL and Apple’s use of it was to make sure a Mini was available day 1 of the transition.


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## Cmaier

Nycturne said:


> Oh, I don’t doubt it. I just more think that the existing chassis is EoL and Apple’s use of it was to make sure a Mini was available day 1 of the transition.



Absolutely agree. Same as the 13“ MBP and the MBA, I believe.


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## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> There have been rumors for the last year or so of something with a glass top, maybe sort of inspired by the old mac cube.



Glass top would solve the biggest reported problem with the M1 mini that the Bluetooth range and performance is pretty poor. Move the antennas to the top under the glass instead of buried at the bottom behind the bottom foot.


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## mr_roboto

Maybe Apple will finally remember the Mac Mini is supposed to be a cheap entry level Mac, design a plastic housing (which can be fun and colorful), and move the base model back to the original $499 price.  The whole idea was to attract people to the Mac by making it very cheap for someone to own one if they already had a display, keyboard, and mouse, and Apple seems to have lost sight of that over the years.

Who am I kidding, LOL.  But if Apple can make lots of margin off selling a $499 iPhone 11, I'm sure they can do the same with a mini.  The mini does need more RAM and flash and a newer and bigger SoC, but less of essentially everything else: no camera sensors and lenses, no cellular modem, no display, etc.


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## Yoused

mr_roboto said:


> Maybe Apple will finally remember the Mac Mini is supposed to be a cheap entry level Mac, design a plastic housing (which can be fun and colorful), and move the base model back to the original $499 price.



You can still get a cheap i5 Mini for only $1100 – 6 core 8Gb/512Gb – so I think the entry level M1 model is a decent price compared to that.


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## tomO2013

You know, probably a hair brained idea, but I’d love it if they made the top of the mac mini act as a capacitive charging base for iphone, airpods etc…

I regularly forget where I put my lightning charger cable and one less Qi charge pad to buy would be nice!


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## User.45

Just got mine. I'm incredibly happy, though I probably overkilled with both RAM and storage. One thing that cannot be hyped enough on this machine is its speakers. Holy shit, I put down my Beyerdynamic headphones for most of the day and just enjoy "spatial audio stuff". The sound is distributed among the 6 speakers and boy it sounds fun! It even does an enjoyable job with drum and bass and dubtechno, where normally the bass would just disappear on a laptop speaker. The speaker does go down to 100Hz, someone measured it on Reddit. This is probably the lowest physically achievable frequency response. THe headphone out is also quite good, definitely better dynamics (punchier) than that of my 2020 MBA.




UAG now has cases for these.




__





						MacBook Pro 14" (M1 Max / M1 Pro) (2021)
					

Urban Armor Gear produces the most rugged, lightweight, cases that are drop tested to US Military Specs. Made for iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, Galaxy, & Surface.




					www.urbanarmorgear.com


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## B01L

I hope the same DAC in the 2021 MBP laptops shows up in the 2022 M1 Pro/Max powered Mac mini desktops...!


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## Andropov

First time I have found something to complain re my M1 Pro MBP: updating apps on the AppStore (Xcode) takes FOREVER because the installd process is confined to the E cores (and currently fighting with Spotlight for resources). So here I am, with one of the fastest CPUs on earth, actively waiting for hours for an update to install because it's running on the 2GHz low-power cores


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## Nycturne

Andropov said:


> First time I have found something to complain re my M1 Pro MBP: updating apps on the AppStore (Xcode) takes FOREVER because the installd process is confined to the E cores (and currently fighting with Spotlight for resources). So here I am, with one of the fastest CPUs on earth, actively waiting for hours for an update to install because it's running on the 2GHz low-power cores




On one hand, validating signing is generally I/O and crypto bound, so very few apps are complex enough to need the P core during install.

On the other, Apple’s code signing validation is very expensive when it comes to complicated apps, and I don’t know why they haven’t tried to provide some approach to improve this.


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## mr_roboto

Andropov said:


> First time I have found something to complain re my M1 Pro MBP: updating apps on the AppStore (Xcode) takes FOREVER because the installd process is confined to the E cores (and currently fighting with Spotlight for resources). So here I am, with one of the fastest CPUs on earth, actively waiting for hours for an update to install because it's running on the 2GHz low-power cores



I don't know if it'll do the trick for installd, but this command makes Time Machine backups run faster by changing the system's scheduling behavior for low priority background threads:

sudo sysctl debug.lowpri_throttle_enabled=0

I always set it back to 1 to restore normal behavior after the slow task completes.  Also, it doesn't persist across restart.


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## Andropov

mr_roboto said:


> I don't know if it'll do the trick for installd, but this command makes Time Machine backups run faster by changing the system's scheduling behavior for low priority background threads:
> 
> sudo sysctl debug.lowpri_throttle_enabled=0
> 
> I always set it back to 1 to restore normal behavior after the slow task completes.  Also, it doesn't persist across restart.



I thought of that as well, but apparently... https://eclecticlight.co/2022/01/24/how-you-cant-promote-threads-on-an-m1/


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## mr_roboto

Andropov said:


> I thought of that as well, but apparently... https://eclecticlight.co/2022/01/24/how-you-cant-promote-threads-on-an-m1/



Did you try it?  I've used it to accelerate an initial TM backup on M1 hardware, and I'd expect that installd gets roughly the same priority behavior as Time Machine.


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## Nycturne

Github gist also seems to suggest it should work for installd as well. 

Seems reasonable, as the setting reads as “prevent process demotion” rather than “promote a demoted process”


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## Andropov

mr_roboto said:


> Did you try it?  I've used it to accelerate an initial TM backup on M1 hardware, and I'd expect that installd gets roughly the same priority behavior as Time Machine.



I didn't. Fortunately, I can try again, since apparently I updated to Xcode 13.2.1 less than 12h before Xcode 13.4 dropped


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## Pumbaa

Andropov said:


> I didn't. Fortunately, I can try again, since apparently I updated to Xcode 13.2.1 less than 12h before Xcode 13.4 dropped



That’s great news! Fewer variables will have had time to change for the comparison then.


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## fischersd

Me, I'm waiting for a Mac Mini that actually has an HDMI 2.1 port (want to recreate the HTPC setup I had in Onterrible).  Yes, I actually want to drive my 4k TV at the 120Hz it supports.  C'mon Apple!

I'll keep my 2018 15" MBP until it's no longer supported   (hopefully it's like the last one and I get 7 years before that happens?)


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## BigMcGuire

Finally got mine. I ditched my personal MBP about a year ago and lived off an iPad and .... a year of that I'm ready to come back.

Dropped by my local Apple store and picked up a 16' MBP beauty and wow. It's nice having a personal laptop again. iPad OS is very limited - but I'm keeping my iPad for reading because nothing beats the 11' for reading a book imo. Not cheap but, really hoping to get 5+ years of use out of both the iPad and the MBP.

I use an eGPU (Sonnet 550) with an RX 6600xt with my work MBP and find that keeps the i7 from using the case fans with normal operation. Also allows me to run Parallels and heavy graphics apps pretty nicely (quietly).

With this personal Mac - a clear separation between work and personal time - and I can sit at my desk again without feeling like it's work (remote worker atm).

I had a 13' M1 MBP for a little bit and the battery life on that thing was amazing.

This thing? Blazing fast with M1 Max. Screen is WOW. Speakers are ... wow.


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## Cmaier

This M1 Max MBP is really giving me the itch to get back into CPU design.


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## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> This M1 Max MBP is really giving me the itch to get back into CPU design.



But you would be stuck out west evn longer.


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## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> But you would be stuck out west evn longer.




Yeah, probably. Though maybe remote work is more of a possibility now (doubt it).  Back in the day I used to have a vpn between my router and cable modem. When I wanted to work from home at AMD, I’d authenticate to that thing, then nothing in the house could connect to anything other than AMD, but I could VNC into work and do anything that I could do while in the office.  

Of course I also had rigged up an email responder so I could send myself emails and it would query a timing database for the chip and send me the results of my commands.  I was rogue, man.


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