# Oct 18 Apple Event



## Cmaier

Very much looking forward to opening my wallet on Oct. 18 and finally replacing my 2016 15”MBP with busted keyboard.  Also looking forward to seeing what the processor looks like.  Whisperers whisper to me that it is based on the same cores as the A15 (avalanche), and not the A14, but things are so compartmentalized in whisper-tino that anything is possible.  I’ll take 8 firestorm cores and 2 icestorm cores if that’s what Apple wants to give me.


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## DT

We're traveling that day - I think we'll be on the road by 1p EST - maybe I'll just listen to the audio 

My current machine (work and personal use) is an '18 Mac Mini (32GB/512/i7) and it has been pretty terrific, runs almost 24/7 and rarely has any issues.  My main problem, was sketchy BT connectivity, I disabled the onboard BT and I'm using an external BT dongle (in a port on my KB), and that's been a complete fix now for well over a year.

I generally have dozens of apps open, several development tools, multiple browsers (gaggles of tabs ), communication apps, lots of local services (to support development), Containers, a VM, and it barely warms up.  I run it without the bottom cover sitting on a large, multi-speed fan which definitely knocked off a few °C 

That being said, as you know, the GPU performance is pretty weak, that's where the M1 based Mini just kills this machine.  I use two displays, but I went with 25" QHDs knowing the '18 Mini was a little strained to drive two 27-30" 4K displays, so that would be part of my update, new larger, higher-res/better PPI displays.

I thought the initial Mini M1 product wasn't quite enough machine, I wanted a 32GB RAM option, a few more ports, and, I wasn't in a rush as I haven't quite sorted out the Winders™ based work I do.  Some things I've migrated to cloud services (a couple of AWS RDS instances), other things, I could just fire one of my rack machines back up, maybe do a few component updates (they're both still running spinning drives).  You know, just some general workflow type considerations in moving from Intel to AS.

I __might__ also switch back to a notebook.  Before the Mini, I had only used MBPs, but I got to where I had no need for a "travel machine", and I kind of liked the idea that work takes place at my desk, and when I'm not there, I'm not working (vs. "_Hey, I can alway lug my work with me!"_)

I was still on a 2015 15" MBP before the Mini, it was a recall machine, I got the free battery (and top plate, trackpad) replacement, sold it for $750 after 4 solid years, traveling dozens of times between coasts, generating some, let's say, some decent cash flow   Heck, it was a freebie from a previous business partner (_"Can you make the trip a few times this month?", "I can, I need a new machine for the road", "OK, just ordered you a new MBP"_)

But recently, having a little portability has come up again, not for travel really, just for more freedom vs. being stuck at the desk.

We'll see, and a new Mini might not even be on deck, though I'd be surprised if the new generations of M1X/M2/M<something> machines didn't include an update to that machine as well.

Hahaha, sorry, that's a little rambly, not quite firing on all cylinders this morning.


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## Pumbaa

Will miss the event due to a No Time to Die screening, haven’t decided yet if I’ll avoid spoilers and watch the event later or just skip it.

Given the rumors so far I think my wallet will survive the event.


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> Given the rumors so far I think my wallet will survive the event.




Mine probably won't. If the rumored M1x Mac Mini ends up being true, and the performance is as good as expected, there's a very high chance I'll end up buying one.


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## Alli

I might watch it. Might not. My want/need for a new Mac is over since I’ve now finished all the data intense parts of my research and should be finished by the end of November. My 2019 MBP will last a good long time.


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## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> Mine probably won't. If the rumored M1x Mac Mini ends up being true, and the performance is as good as expected, there's a very high chance I'll end up buying one.



If I didn’t already have a M1ni that would for sure have put my wallet at risk.

Very nice little machine, it is quiet and does what I need it to do in a timely manner. Can’t realistically imagine anything that would make me upgrade already.


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## Hrafn

I’ll watch something after the event.  I’m in the market to upgrade, having kept my 2011 MBP limping along.


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## tobefirst

I *could* upgrade my Gen 2 AirPods, but both them and my first gen have suffered from the "stops seating properly in the case" issue. I suppose this is because I've used them while running and got sweat on them. I've now been using a pair of Cleer buds and a pair of Aftershokz and, if I'm not running with them, I don't really have much of a use for a new pair of AirPods that may give out after a year. Maybe I'll bite if they up the IPxx number.


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## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> We're traveling that day - I think we'll be on the road by 1p EST - maybe I'll just listen to the audio
> 
> My current machine (work and personal use) is an '18 Mac Mini (32GB/512/i7) and it has been pretty terrific, runs almost 24/7 and rarely has any issues.  My main problem, was sketchy BT connectivity, I disabled the onboard BT and I'm using an external BT dongle (in a port on my KB), and that's been a complete fix now for well over a year.
> 
> I generally have dozens of apps open, several development tools, multiple browsers (gaggles of tabs ), communication apps, lots of local services (to support development), Containers, a VM, and it barely warms up.  I run it without the bottom cover sitting on a large, multi-speed fan which definitely knocked off a few °C
> 
> That being said, as you know, the GPU performance is pretty weak, that's where the M1 based Mini just kills this machine.  I use two displays, but I went with 25" QHDs knowing the '18 Mini was a little strained to drive two 27-30" 4K displays, so that would be part of my update, new larger, higher-res/better PPI displays.
> 
> I thought the initial Mini M1 product wasn't quite enough machine, I wanted a 32GB RAM option, a few more ports, and, I wasn't in a rush as I haven't quite sorted out the Winders™ based work I do.  Some things I've migrated to cloud services (a couple of AWS RDS instances), other things, I could just fire one of my rack machines back up, maybe do a few component updates (they're both still running spinning drives).  You know, just some general workflow type considerations in moving from Intel to AS.
> 
> I __might__ also switch back to a notebook.  Before the Mini, I had only used MBPs, but I got to where I had no need for a "travel machine", and I kind of liked the idea that work takes place at my desk, and when I'm not there, I'm not working (vs. "_Hey, I can alway lug my work with me!"_)
> 
> I was still on a 2015 15" MBP before the Mini, it was a recall machine, I got the free battery (and top plate, trackpad) replacement, sold it for $750 after 4 solid years, traveling dozens of times between coasts, generating some, let's say, some decent cash flow  Heck, it was a freebie from a previous business partner (_"Can you make the trip a few times this month?", "I can, I need a new machine for the road", "OK, just ordered you a new MBP"_)
> 
> But recently, having a little portability has come up again, not for travel really, just for more freedom vs. being stuck at the desk.
> 
> We'll see, and a new Mini might not even be on deck, though I'd be surprised if the new generations of M1X/M2/M<something> machines didn't include an update to that machine as well.
> 
> Hahaha, sorry, that's a little rambly, not quite firing on all cylinders this morning.



My interest in getting a new Mini has been lost because of the consistent BT issues I've had with 2012 & 2018 ones.  So much that it made me want to finally get that iMac I always dreamed of, and instead Apple gave me pastel colored machines that looked like giant horizontal iPads on a stand.

Unless the new Mini is crazy looking thing with a documented BT improvement, I can't see going there again yet.  Since new iMacs aren't on the supposed horizon this year, it makes a slick looking new MacBook Pro appealing with the my pile of gift cards here ready to cover almost half the costs.  So I may try the docked life for a portable machine that actually doesn't go anywhere.


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## Renzatic

tobefirst said:


> I *could* upgrade my Gen 2 AirPods, but both them and my first gen have suffered from the "stops seating properly in the case" issue. I suppose this is because I've used them while running and got sweat on them. I've now been using a pair of Cleer buds and a pair of Aftershokz and, if I'm not running with them, I don't really have much of a use for a new pair of AirPods that may give out after a year. Maybe I'll bite if they up the IPxx number.




The major reason why I'll never buy a pair of AirPods is because they look like they'd be easily misplaced, or lost between couch cushions. I don't want to pay $200 for something I know I'll lose in a month.


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## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> The major reason why I'll never buy a pair of AirPods is because they look like they'd be easily misplaced, or lost between couch cushions. I don't want to pay $200 for something I know I'll lose in a month.



As someone who has Airpods Pro and Beats Buds, I think you may discover when they cost that much, you tend to do a pretty good job of keeping track of them.  The only time I've ever lost track of one, is when an Airpod fell out of my left ear in New York city, and I scrambled around looking for where it bounced.  It's what led me to get the Beats, because the fit is more secure for me personally.

Supposedly new Airpods will be taking some of that design.


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## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> As someone who has Airpods Pro and Beats Buds, I think you may discover when they cost that much, you tend to do a pretty good job of keeping track of them.  The only time I've ever lost track of one, is when an Airpod fell out of my left ear in New York city, and I scrambled around looking for where it bounced.  It's what led me to get the Beats, because the fit is more secure for me personally.
> 
> Supposedly new Airpods will be taking some of that design.




Knowing my luck, the same thing would happen to me, and they'd end up falling down a storm drain.

I just like good old fashioned headsets. They're big, bulky, and you look goofy wearing them, but when they're on your head, they're there to stay.


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## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> Knowing my luck, the same thing would happen to me, and they'd end up falling down a storm drain.
> 
> I just like good old fashioned headsets. They're big, bulky, and you look goofy wearing them, but when they're on your head, they're there to stay.



As I said though, they may take the Beats Buds design, which others have already been doing.  Because it is a surprisingly secure fit.

With those if you do lose them, I imagine it's the same reasons for bobbling 'old fashion headsets'.  Only a cord would save you from losing them.  The drawback of course is the cord, which is why so many of us enjoy wireless headphones.  No scratch noises as cords rub against you.  No cords getting caught on something, yanking the headset off of you.  Etc.

Like the fit of Apple designed headphones wired or wireless, it's all an individual thing.


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## Runs For Fun

A beefed up Mac Mini would be really tempting. I would need at least a 32GB option. I would be torn between that or waiting for a new 27" iMac (maybe even that rumored Mac Pro Mini).


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## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> My interest in getting a new Mini has been lost because of the consistent BT issues I've had with 2012 & 2018 ones.  So much that it made me want to finally get that iMac I always dreamed of, and instead Apple gave me pastel colored machines that looked like giant horizontal iPads on a stand.
> 
> Unless the new Mini is crazy looking thing with a documented BT improvement, I can't see going there again yet.  Since new iMacs aren't on the supposed horizon this year, it makes a slick looking new MacBook Pro appealing with the my pile of gift cards here ready to cover almost half the costs.  So I may try the docked life for a portable machine that actually doesn't go anywhere.




FWIW, the external BT dongle just fixed it, no issues, IOGear GBU521, ~$15, one change to VRAM, done.

A mostly docked notebook worked great for me, even with my past travel, my notebooks have been docked like 95% of the time, always use an external KB/mouse, two external displays.  I went Mini this time around because it saved about $1000 over roughly the same config, and the Mini seemed to have better thermal management.  But of course, I can't on a whim take my Mini up into the bedroom ...


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## DT

Renzatic said:


> The major reason why I'll never buy a pair of AirPods is because they look like they'd be easily misplaced, or lost between couch cushions. I don't want to pay $200 for something I know I'll lose in a month.




Funny, we've been on an AirPod hunt for the last two days.  The little G misplaced them, we were 99% sure it was in the house, the problem is even with Find My, there's some AirPod behaviors where they just check-the-fuck-out, so they were not even showing up at the house ("No Location Found"), and she knew they were in the case, but then (at least for her first gen), the "sound alert" doesn't work.

I gave her an AirTag but the case was like a luggage style, so it was kind of flopping around, but that would've totally let us find them in the case.

They did eventually turn up (pocket of a hoodie ...), and I ordered this today:



			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BV82912/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


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## Clix Pix

Definitely looking forward to Monday's presentation and announcements!   I will be getting one of the new MBPs, am very interested in what the specs will be.   Probably I won't buy one immediately, maybe will wait a few months, let the initial bugs be fixed if there are any.....


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## Renzatic

I'm definitely buying one now that I know Blender has full support on the platform. The only question now is exactly when.

...this'll be my first Mac. I hope it's gentle with me.


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## fischersd

+1 for the new Mac Mini - really hope it has everything I want to be my next HTPC (but it's taken about a month to get the girlfriend used to the Apple TV - think I'll have a fight on my hands to give her a new UI to deal with)   Want my keyboard / trackpad back on the coffee table - and I'll retire the MacBook from the kitchen island. 

AirPods 3 are my other highly-awaited item.  I have the original AirPods - replaced one of them already as the battery died, held off replacing the other for the last few months for the same reason (ie - I'm no longer using them) - which is a major disadvantage when I'm working from home.  Love using them for conference calls!!!

Likely be buying AP3's for the girlfriend and myself (she lost her AP1's).


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## DT

Assuming they announce two sizes, a pair of new size options, 14" and a 16", or even just a new 13" plus the standard 15", I wonder if there will be any notable performance difference?

In the Intel days, the larger MBP had faster CPU/GPU options, so often times you had to go bigger/heavier/less-portable to get the most performance (some was thermal considerations for the case / some was just product placement).

Now with ASi / M-series products, there's less variation, if any, in the implementation between two different machines.  For example:  the M1 MBA vs. the M1 MBP, assuming the former with the 8-core GPU option, the M1 package (as I understand it) is the same, the MBP just has active cooling/fans, so it has more thermal headroom vs. the MBA, so loses less performance over time (under load).   Of course the MBP model also has other non-processor improvements (or deficits, depending on your like/dislike of the Touch Bar )

I believe the M1 based Mini is also the same M1 specification.

But anyway, this will be super interesting.  I suppose they could run the M<TBD> in the larger chassis faster (not unlike the Intel situation), or offer additional cores - I'm not sure from a fabrication standpoint if that even makes business sense.

__If__ it was the same M package, that would be interesting in that it's just a matter of the size of the machine.  Heck for me, where I would rarely use the display, I'd take the smaller size (assuming I don't wind up with another Mini).


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## Cmaier

DT said:


> Assuming they announce two sizes, a pair of new size options, 14" and a 16", or even just a new 13" plus the standard 15", I wonder if there will be any notable performance difference?
> 
> In the Intel days, the larger MBP had faster CPU/GPU options, so often times you had to go bigger/heavier/less-portable to get the most performance (some was thermal considerations for the case / some was just product placement).
> 
> Now with ASi / M-series products, there's less variation, if any, in the implementation between two different machines.  For example:  the M1 MBA vs. the M1 MBP, assuming the former with the 8-core GPU option, the M1 package (as I understand it) is the same, the MBP just has active cooling/fans, so it has more thermal headroom vs. the MBA, so loses less performance over time (under load).   Of course the MBP model also has other non-processor improvements (or deficits, depending on your like/dislike of the Touch Bar )
> 
> I believe the M1 based Mini is also the same M1 specification.
> 
> But anyway, this will be super interesting.  I suppose they could run the M<TBD> in the larger chassis faster (not unlike the Intel situation), or offer additional cores - I'm not sure from a fabrication standpoint if that even makes business sense.
> 
> __If__ it was the same M package, that would be interesting in that it's just a matter of the size of the machine.  Heck for me, where I would rarely use the display, I'd take the smaller size (assuming I don't wind up with another Mini).



Pretty sure performance between the 14” and 16” will be identical.  For all intents and purposes they have the same thermals (because Apple’s silicon is so much cooler than Intel’s, the additional space of the 16“ makes little difference).


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## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> Pretty sure performance between the 14” and 16” will be identical.  For all intents and purposes they have the same thermals (because Apple’s silicon is so much cooler than Intel’s, the additional space of the 16“ makes little difference).



Hope you’re right. Would be nice to have a smaller laptop with the same performance and not be forced to get the big one.

Not that I’m getting one this year, but still, for the future! If they make the larger one beefier this time they’ll never stop.


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## DT

Cmaier said:


> Pretty sure performance between the 14” and 16” will be identical.  For all intents and purposes they have the same thermals (because Apple’s silicon is so much cooler than Intel’s, the additional space of the 16“ makes little difference).




I figured as much based on what we've seen with the M1 (and predicted TDP, etc.), and I don't think[?] they'd create some artificial configuration differences, like the 16" having a 64GB RAM option where the 14" only has a 32GB max option.   Assuming the performance and internal configurations are all the same - I wonder if there will be __any__ difference between the two outside of display size/res.

Ports?  Maybe the larger chassis would support 4-6 vs. the smaller supporting 2-4? 2 vs. 4 speakers?  I keep reading about the possibility of an SD slot making an appearance again, wonder if something like that would be exclusive to the 16" model, which of course will send people into a tailspin ...


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## DT

What's the current WOTS about the Touch Bar?  Gone?  Optional?


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## Pumbaa

DT said:


> I figured as much based on what we've seen with the M1 (and predicted TDP, etc.), and I don't think[?] they'd create some artificial configuration differences, like the 16" having a 64GB RAM option where the 14" only has a 32GB max option.   Assuming the performance and internal configurations are all the same - I wonder if there will be __any__ difference between the two outside of display size/res.
> 
> Ports?  Maybe the larger chassis would support 4-6 vs. the smaller supporting 2-4? 2 vs. 4 speakers?  I keep reading about the possibility of an SD slot making an appearance again, wonder if something like that would be exclusive to the 16" model, which of course will send people into a tailspin ...



I for one would be perfectly fine with the larger laptops sporting more ports, fancier speakers, things like that. Wouldn’t jump off a cliff screaming and spinning my tail, as long as the smaller alternative have a usable set.

Can’t imagine the SD slot making a comeback. Wouldn’t mind being wrong about that, though.


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## Cmaier

DT said:


> What's the current WOTS about the Touch Bar?  Gone?  Optional?



It’s gone.


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> It’s gone.




I havent' ever used a Touch Bar equipped Mac personally, but I always thought they would've ended up being a little more popular if they placed them above the function keys, rather than replacing them entirely.

Oh well. C'est la vie.


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> I havent' ever used a Touch Bar equipped Mac personally, but I always thought they would've ended up being a little more popular if they placed them above the function keys, rather than replacing them entirely.
> 
> Oh well. C'est la vie.




The problem is they have no taptics, and just barely brushing the bar triggers functions. So if you type very fast and your fingers are flying around, you are doomed.


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> The problem is they have no taptics, and just barely brushing the bar triggers functions. So if you type very fast and your fingers are flying around, you are doomed.




Considering Apple's reputation for fretting the small details, you'd think they would have picked up on that.

...but then again, they did apparently go through a phase where they made a number of stupid decisions concerning their keyboards, so I guess it was par for the course.


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Considering Apple's reputation for fretting the small details, you'd think they would have picked up on that.
> 
> ...but then again, they did apparently go through a phase where they made a number of stupid decisions concerning their keyboards, so I guess it was par for the course.




Yep. The 2016 MBP ushered in 3 years of badness.


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## Deleted member 221

I’m really hoping for a “Mac Mini Pro”


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## Renzatic

turbineseaplane said:


> I’m really hoping for a “Mac Mini Pro”




That's what I'm hoping for as well. 

Given all the rumors of a redesigned Mac Mini that have been floated about over the last 6 months, it wouldn't surprise me if one shows up.


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## Pumbaa

turbineseaplane said:


> I’m really hoping for a “Mac Mini Pro”






Renzatic said:


> That's what I'm hoping for as well.
> 
> Given all the rumors of a redesigned Mac Mini that have been floated about over the last 6 months, it wouldn't surprise me if one shows up.



What are you hoping to see in a Mac Mini Pro?

Basically the same as the regular one but beefier? More ports? Upgradable storage? Slot for dGPU? Reality distortion field generator?


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> Basically the same as the regular one but beefier? More ports? Upgradable storage? Slot for dGPU? Reality distortion field generator?




Definitely the reality distortion field. I want to love my new Mac unconditionally.

But seriously, I'm primarily hoping for a 32 GB RAM option, and whatever performance boosts come along with the rumored M1X chip.


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## Hrafn

Pumbaa said:


> What are you hoping to see in a Mac Mini Pro?
> 
> Basically the same as the regular one but beefier? More ports? Upgradable storage? Slot for dGPU? Reality distortion field generator?



Bigger than a mini, more ports and more upgrade options, without being a $$$$$$ Mac Pro.  I realize this is a dream that will never happen.


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## Renzatic

Hrafn said:


> Bigger than a mini, more ports and more upgrade options, without being a $$$$$$ Mac Pro.  I realize this is a dream that will never happen.




Yup. Basically a high end Macbook Pro 16" in a box.


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## SuperMatt

Some rumors on the new laptops:









						New MacBook Pro with M1 Max processor will ditch Touch Bar, adopt MagSafe | AppleInsider
					

Apple's new MacBook Pro models with faster chips are expected on Monday, and are rumored to adopt MagSafe charging of some sort, a speedier Apple Silicon processor, and more.




					appleinsider.com


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## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> Some rumors on the new laptops:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New MacBook Pro with M1 Max processor will ditch Touch Bar, adopt MagSafe | AppleInsider
> 
> 
> Apple's new MacBook Pro models with faster chips are expected on Monday, and are rumored to adopt MagSafe charging of some sort, a speedier Apple Silicon processor, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> appleinsider.com




Notch would be interesting.


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## Joe

I'm gonna laugh if it has a freakin' notch.


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## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Notch would be interesting.




I doubt we'll see that, since it could clash with applications that have a lot of dropdown menus in the top bar.


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## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> Notch would be interesting.



Best to steer clear of MR comments if that happens.

I’m less skeptical of notches now that I have used my 13PM a while. As long as the implementation is good I think I’ll be fine with a notch.



Renzatic said:


> I doubt we'll see that, since it could clash with applications that have a lot of dropdown menus in the top bar.



Unless they design around it somehow. That could certainly happen.


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> Unless they design around it somehow. That could certainly happen.




They could truncate the size and/or spacing of the menu entries so that they don't ever extend beyond 45% of the top bar, but that could look a little sloppy.


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## SuperMatt

The notch rumor sounds like something planted to expose a leaker. Why would a 16-inch laptop need it, and not the smaller 13-inch ones? Even iPads with Face ID put it in the bezel. Doesn’t the screen have enough of a bezel to hold the cameras if needed? Who knows though… maybe Apple wanted to shrink the bezels down to nothing.


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## Renzatic

SuperMatt said:


> The notch rumor sounds like something planted to expose a leaker. Why would a 16-inch laptop need it, and not the smaller 13-inch ones?




The higher end Macbooks could be sporting entirely bezel-free screens, a'la the Dell XPSes. A notch would give them more play with the webcam.


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> I doubt we'll see that, since it could clash with applications that have a lot of dropdown menus in the top bar.



Remember the original betas of OS X had the apple menu in the center of the bar? Fun.


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## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> The notch rumor sounds like something planted to expose a leaker. Why would a 16-inch laptop need it, and not the smaller 13-inch ones? Even iPads with Face ID put it in the bezel. Doesn’t the screen have enough of a bezel to hold the cameras if needed? Who knows though… maybe Apple wanted to shrink the bezels down to nothing.



The 13” wasn’t a redesign. The 14” will replace the 13” in the next year or two. If 16” has a notch then so will 14”. Presumably for better cameras.


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## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> They could truncate the size and/or spacing of the menu entries so that they don't ever extend beyond 45% of the top bar, but that could look a little sloppy.



Unless they for example find a new use for the topmost part above the menu.


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> Unless they for example find a new use for the topmost part above the menu.




Them building an empty black space at the top of the OS UI to make room for the notch would be kind of hilarious.


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## Entropy

Hrafn said:


> Bigger than a mini, more ports and more upgrade options, without being a $$$$$$ Mac Pro.  I realize this is a dream that will never happen.



For what it’s worth, I share your dream.


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## Renzatic

Entropy said:


> For what it’s worth, I share your dream.




Now that we know what Apple Silicon entails, with the RAM being so tightly entwined with the SoC, which includes both the CPU and GPU, I'd say the days of being able to upgrade your Mac are all but over.

The only thing left that can be potentially upgraded is the SSD, and it probably won't be long until it's integrated in along with the rest.

Also, WELCOME TO THE BOARD!


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## Entropy

Renzatic said:


> Now that we know what Apple Silicon entails, with the RAM being so tightly entwined with the SoC, which includes both the CPU and GPU, I'd say the days of being able to upgrade your Mac are all but over.
> 
> The only thing left that can be potentially upgraded is the SSD, and it probably won't be long until it's integrated in along with the rest.
> 
> Also, WELCOME TO THE BOARD!



Thanks.  
The SSD is basically the one thing I hold hope would be replaceable. Using an m.2 unit doesn’t affect anything architecturally, Apple is using something nvme equivalent on the M1s (the finer details are a bit fuzzy).
I’m not holding my breath for that one though, my crystal ball shows an external thunderbolt drive in my future…

I do wish for silent cooling and expect a somewhat more rubust set of I/O. My tech nerdy curiosity is centered on the memory hierarchy though - how the greatly increased on SoC processing capabilities will affect their cache and RAM choices.


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## Eric

Entropy said:


> For what it’s worth, I share your dream.



Welcome!


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## Cmaier

Entropy said:


> Thanks.
> The SSD is basically the one thing I hold hope would be replaceable. Using an m.2 unit doesn’t affect anything architecturally, Apple is using something nvme equivalent on the M1s (the finer details are a bit fuzzy).
> I’m not holding my breath for that one though, my crystal ball shows an external thunderbolt drive in my future…
> 
> I do wish for silent cooling and expect a somewhat more rubust set of I/O. My tech nerdy curiosity is centered on the memory hierarchy though - how the greatly increased on SoC processing capabilities will affect their cache and RAM choices.



I figured they doubled the size of the SLC, at least.


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## Cmaier

Pumbaa said:


> Best to steer clear of MR comments if that happens.
> 
> I’m less skeptical of notches now that I have used my 13PM a while. As long as the implementation is good I think I’ll be fine with a notch.
> 
> 
> Unless they design around it somehow. That could certainly happen.




If they do it, I figure they simply have menu items skip over that gap, same as they did in the early OS X betas where the apple menu was centered.  May also explain why Big Sur has the control center, to remove a lot of the right-side menubar items and hide them in a place that takes less space.


----------



## Alli

So remember I had decided against a new Mac? Well today my mother asked me if there was anything tangible she could get me for my birthday. <eg> I said, why as a matter of fact there’s an Apple event tomorrow announcing the new Macs. Wanna get me one? I love having an Apple event on my birthday. So I‘ll be back to watching what they announce in the 16” range, either Air or Pro.


----------



## Entropy

Cmaier said:


> I figured they doubled the size of the SLC, at least.



Given that the A15 according to Andrei Frumusanus testing has increased L2 to 12MB (same as M1) and SLC to 32MB (twice the size of M1!), that seems a very safe bet. If the same size L2 serves 4 times the cores of A15 and the same size SLC serves an additional 4-8 times greater number of GPU clusters in addition to the rest of the SoC, that prediction seems almost conservative.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Pumbaa said:


> What are you hoping to see in a Mac Mini Pro?
> 
> Basically the same as the regular one but beefier? More ports? Upgradable storage? Slot for dGPU? Reality distortion field generator?




Sorry - just saw this

I'd like more GPU power.
That was all that held me back in round 1 of M1 Mini


----------



## Hrafn

Cmaier said:


> Notch would be interesting.



And weird though.


----------



## Roller

I'd rather a thicker upper bezel than a notch that encroaches on the screen, but not a big deal as I'm not in the market for another laptop. I'll be interested in the higher end Mac Mini, though. I've had iMacs for about 15 years, but would consider a Mini with an external monitor if it had everything else I need.


----------



## lizkat

If latest MBP will have the ports added back that people are saying it will have, a notch wouldn't take it out of the running for me, even though I'm not in the laptop upgrade market right now.

 I do like having a spare fairly current laptop in hand. My mid-2012 MBP, that sturdy thing which still even has a functional optical drive (among other assets) is getting very long in the tooth now. Plus its keyboard is toast so requires use of a BT one which is a PITA even though the little original magic kb sits well right on top the inbuilt one.

So soon enough I'll be looking to let the MBA 2020 become the spare and I'll be prowling Apple's refurb shelves for one of whatever notebooks are coming off the Apple lines currently. Not sure I can justify an MBP any more, really.

 Anyway for  now I'm looking to update my iPad Pro and iPad mini, not sure which will get the nod in 2021.  I'm thinking I can get by with an iPad Air now, so maybe I can squeeze both tablet updates into the budget.  Depends how well I really like all those rice and beans recipes I have acquired.  And possibly on how wowed I am by next Tuesday's this Monday's event.

EDIT  at 0023 edt:   i can't get it through my head that the event is today.... Monday...  or at least I couldn't until the reminder popped up on my calendar.  Good thing it's not at 9am or something, eh?   G'night all...


----------



## Deleted member 221

Roller said:


> would consider a Mini with an external monitor if it had everything else I need.




This brings up a good point. 
I really hope another Apple monitor is coming...ideally well down market from the ProXDR


----------



## Joe

I have a 2017 MBP. It has the crappy keyboard. So far it’s only annoyed me a few times. But I may get rid of it depending on what they announce tomorrow. Not sure if I want another MacBook or go back to windows.


----------



## ronntaylor

Light load tomorrow, so I'll be enjoying a nice sandwich during the keynote. Not likely to get anything for myself with a pretty new-ish MBA. But the hubby would like an updated Mac mini for the office. Of course, the school's IT dept will take forever to approve and configure it. He may just wait a bit to get reimbursed as he's figured out most issues on his own the last few years.

I really want a new iMac but can't really justify the costs. Rumors of a 30" version has me itchy.


----------



## Clix Pix

I'm not that bothered by the idea of a notch in the new machines if that rumor proves to be true.  However,  I really would prefer to have four TB ports rather than only three and the Magsafe.   Since I currently plug in my MBP to the LG 24" Thunderbolt monitor that then handles powering both of them, unless I do something different with plugging in the monitor that would use up one of the three TB ports and there have been times when I have wanted and needed to plug in three external drives at the same time.     I also like the versatility of being able to plug in the power cable on either side of my current machine.   Sigh.....   I don't know if this LG monitor even HAS an HDMI port or whatever.     I know that I'll never bother with the SD card slot;  no need for that when I have a perfectly good Sony card reader which works both for my SD cards and my CF Express cards.

Well, guess we'll find out more tomorrow about just what is and isn't included in the new machines.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Ports on BOTH sides should be a no brainer for a 'Pro' level product.

Having the only two ports on ONE side on the Air is annoying.  Apple was smart enough to address this with the Magic Keyboard on the iPad, as it allows for a port on each side when connected.

If the notch rumor is true, I'm excited at the idea of the MBP having an 'Infinity Edge' screen.


----------



## zakarhino

I'm hoping the 16 inch has 4 USB C instead of just 3. Maybe two on each side again or three on the left, one on the right.


----------



## matram

SuperMatt said:


> The notch rumor sounds like something planted to expose a leaker. Why would a 16-inch laptop need it, and not the smaller 13-inch ones? Even iPads with Face ID put it in the bezel. Doesn’t the screen have enough of a bezel to hold the cameras if needed? Who knows though… maybe Apple wanted to shrink the bezels down to nothing.



Leaks indicate that there are an extra 74 pixels vertically from the perfect 16:10 screen ratio and also that there is a "safe_area" available to developers, this is used on the iPhone to handle the notch and rounded corners. Both these things makes the rumor a bit more plausible. Will be interesting to see!


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Clix Pix

zakarhino said:


> I'm hoping the 16 inch has 4 USB C instead of just 3. Maybe two on each side again or three on the left, one on the right.



4 USB-C/TB 4 ports:  two on each side, absolutely!   I love this on my 2018 MBP and I don't want to muck around with only three of them in the future just because they may have decided to re-add that stupid MagSafe.


----------



## Runs For Fun

theSeb said:


> I don't mind the notch. I've had a notch in my iphone for many years and I don't even notice that there is a notch. All of the people crying about the notch are people that have never used the phone. I have no concerns about a notch on a laptop.
> 
> View attachment 9240



Exactly. When I switched from the 8 Plus to the 12 Pro Max, I noticed the notch for like a day and then it kind of just disappeared. Doesn't bother me at all.


----------



## leman

Hi everyone, hope I am not too late to the party  This place definitely looks cozier than MR and it's nice to see so many familiar names. @Cmaier, how is your exile going? 

Wish everyone a fun keynote and may the new MacBooks be what all of us want them to be!


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> Hi everyone, hope I am not too late to the party  This place definitely looks cozier than MR and it's nice to see so many familiar names. @Cmaier, how is your exile going?
> 
> Wish everyone a fun keynote and may the new MacBooks be what all of us want them to be!




welcome! So glad to see you here!  BTW, here you are free to call anyone you want “technically incompetent” and I am free to say “it’s all in your head” without month-long suspensions and threats of permanent bans, I’m told.


----------



## leman

Cmaier said:


> welcome! So glad to see you here!  BTW, here you are free to call anyone you want “technically incompetent” and I am free to say “it’s all in your head” without month-long suspensions and threats of permanent bans, I’m told.




Cozier indeed...


----------



## Deleted member 221

Cmaier said:


> welcome! So glad to see you here!  BTW, here you are free to call anyone you want “technically incompetent” and I am free to say “it’s all in your head” without month-long suspensions and threats of permanent bans, I’m told.




C'mon - can we please leave that particular issue behind?
You know darned well I'm here and that's simply poking the bear unnecessarily

I've gone _out of my way_ to try to move on and I'd appreciate some reciprocation on that please.


----------



## Cmaier

turbineseaplane said:


> C'mon - can we please leave that particular issue behind?
> You know darned well I'm here and that's simply poking the bear unnecessarily
> 
> I've gone _out of my way_ to try to move on and I'd appreciate some reciprocation on that please.



Seriously, it was not aimed at you at all. It was poking fun at the reason for my suspension, quoting the exact words that the MR moderators pointed at as being out of line.  (And those words, even at MR, were not directed at you, unless I am very confused).


----------



## Deleted member 221

Cmaier said:


> Seriously, it was not aimed at you at all. It was poking fun at the reason for my suspension, quoting the exact words that the MR moderators pointed at as being out of line.  (And those words, even at MR, were not directed at you, unless I am very confused).




Fair enough - but can we stop even bringing it up?

I was very active in that thread where you got suspended and you and I were going back and forth and I know that some of your responses to me directly led to your suspension (heard from MR on it).

We very much disagreed about your tone and demeanor in that thread and on that topic and it was a key part of your suspension.
Let's just leave it behind and stop talking about it again here -- please?


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Seriously, it was not aimed at you at all. It was poking fun at the reason for my suspension, quoting the exact words that the MR moderators pointed at as being out of line.  (And those words, even at MR, were not directed at you, unless I am very confused).



Right, I saw this more aimed at their moderation, not a specific event. and to that end you couldn't be more right that people can express themselves here. I don't think this was personal @turbineseaplane


----------



## leman

Wait, is _everyone_ from MR here_?_


----------



## Deleted member 221

Eric said:


> Right, I saw this more aimed at their moderation, not a specific event. and to that end you couldn't be more right that people can express themselves here. I don't think this was personal @turbineseaplane




What's made it personal - honestly speaking - is that I fully agree with MR moderation on this topic.
I don't agree with the length of suspension, but the behavior leading to it -- I fully do.

And, with _major respect_, @Cmaier you darned well know that, as we were going right back and forth at each other in that thread that day.


----------



## Cmaier

turbineseaplane said:


> Fair enough - but can we stop even bringing it up?
> 
> I was very active in that thread where you got suspended and you and I were going back and forth and I know that some of your responses to me directly led to your suspension (heard from MR on it).
> 
> We very much disagreed about your tone and demeanor in that thread and on that topic and it was a key part of your suspension.
> Let's just leave it behind and stop talking about it again here -- please?




Listen, I mean no disrespect and really don’t intend to anger you or upset you. But I don’t think it’s fair of you to ask that I not speak about the stated basis of my suspension over there.  I didn’t come here to be censored.  In my mind it has nothing to do with you, and my disagreement with MR is with MR, and not with you.  If my mentioning my suspension is a trigger for you, then I regretfully suggest that you just put me on your ignore list.

I mean, this is literally what they told me:





If they had other reasons to suspend me, they didn’t tell *me* about them.


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> Wait, is _everyone_ from MR here_?_




Many of us. This place seems to use the very good strategy of waiting until someone tussles with the moderators over there and then extending invitations


----------



## Joe

leman said:


> Wait, is _everyone_ from MR here_?_




Most people are from MR. We've all been suspended or banned at some point lol


----------



## Deleted member 221

Cmaier said:


> Listen, I mean no disrespect and really don’t intend to anger you or upset you. But I don’t think it’s fair of you to ask that I not speak about the stated basis of my suspension over there. I didn’t come here to be censored. In my mind it has nothing to do with you, and my disagreement with MR is with MR, and not with you. If my mentioning my suspension is a trigger for you, then I regretfully suggest that you just put me on your ignore list.




We can't simply move on from the suspension and we all get along?
It has to be a topic indefinitely?

I thought a key idea was to not bring things over from MR, nor obsess about what's gone on there?


----------



## Hrafn

JagRunner said:


> Most people are from MR. We've all been suspended or banned at some point lol



Or just got fed up with their moderation, and the fact that they can't tell if someone is QAnon and posting factually incorrect data, but can tell if your laughing emoji is meant to trigger a select few.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Alright -- well - back on topic I guess.

Personally I'm very excited.  I'd really hoped that these next gen M machines would have been sooner
Might be a purchase for the first time in a while for me


----------



## Cmaier

turbineseaplane said:


> We can't simply move on from the suspension and we all get along?
> It has to be a topic indefinitely?
> 
> I thought a key idea was to not bring things over from MR, nor obsess about what's gone on there?




I feel like you are spending a lot of time on both forums telling me that what I’m saying is improper, either in terms of subject matter or tone. I strongly suggest you just ignore me, and I’ll do the same.


----------



## Runs For Fun

leman said:


> Wait, is _everyone_ from MR here_?_



Pretty much.


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Many of us. This place seems to use the very good strategy of waiting until someone tussles with the moderators over there and then extending invitations



^This. And we try to get them out before the user is suspended, we're good at seeing the signs. 

What we've become





In all seriousness though, we've been around for a little over a year now and most of us have either been banned or penalized at MR in one form or another, all decent people who just said the wrong thing at the wrong time and were treated like a child for it by Nazi moderators.

With over 60K posts here I can count how many times we've had to moderate anyone or anything on one hand and all one has to do is look around at how everyone gets along. It can be done, MR just chooses to run their site like a prison camp.


----------



## leman

Anyway, guys, the event is starting in just couple of minutes, so I move that discussion of previous disagreements be postponed for later. 

My last-minute prediction fro the prosumer Macs: new scalable Apple Silicon chip family  (using similar CPU cores to A15), hardware raytracing, SVE/SVE2 support, MOAR cache. I don't make any predictions for the chassis, but based on the latest available evidence I'd say that notch is likely, Touch Bar is probably gone, and the laptops are slightly thicker to accommodate a HDMI port. Surely hope that they leave in four USB-C ports.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Cmaier said:


> I feel like you are spending a lot of time on both forums telling me that what I’m saying is improper, either in terms of subject matter or tone. I strongly suggest you just ignore me, and I’ll do the same.




All that was ever asked of you was "please show some empathy" and you instead tripled down on insisting your particular opinion was "right".
Not just subjectively right -- but objectively correct and for all users in that subject.

Not sure why it's so hard to simply yield occasionally and say something like "I'm sorry to hear this is bothering you, sounds frustrating, hope you can find some solutions".  It goes a long way to getting along if one can just back off a touch sometimes.

Life and human interactions are not just about "being right".

Super frustrating, but it is what it is.

I was hoping to iron this out in PM, but you've ignored my olive branch from yesterday.


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> Anyway, guys, the event is starting in just couple of minutes, so I move that discussion of previous disagreements be postponed for later.
> 
> My last-minute prediction fro the prosumer Macs: new scalable Apple Silicon chip family  (using similar CPU cores to A15), hardware raytracing, SVE/SVE2 support, MOAR cache. I don't make any predictions for the chassis, but based on the latest available evidence I'd say that notch is likely, Touch Bar is probably gone, and the laptops are slightly thicker to accommodate a HDMI port. Surely hope that they leave in four USB-C ports.




I’m beginning to doubt my sources re: avalanche, but looking forward to seeing.  Hardware raytracing would be great, but I think that’s coming next year.  SLC maybe 4x the M1?  I think 3 usb-c, because the 4th ”port” is being used internally to give us HDMI and the SD card slot.


----------



## ronntaylor

Checked emails. Read news. Small-ish task set up for late afternoon. House all to myself. Let the cyber kvetching begin!


----------



## Cmaier

Not digging the music being played right now.  And staring at the screen is too hypnotic.  This event sucks.


----------



## leman

Cmaier said:


> I’m beginning to doubt my sources re: avalanche, but looking forward to seeing.




I just though that we might have been looking at this from the wrong perspective. Is it possible that A15 is derived from this new desktop tech and not the other way around?


----------



## Agent47

Hi all. You don‘t know the alias I‘m using, I‘m in exile - kinda - from MR as well


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> I just though that we might have been looking at this from the wrong perspective. Is it possible that A15 is derived from this new desktop tech and not the other way around?




well that’s what my sources led me to believe - they work on the cores for the “big” chip and then they are used in the “small” chip, but the big and small could tape out in either order.  But I’m hearing a lot of noise on the net about these being firestorms. So I dunno.


----------



## Cmaier

You think Gelsinger is tuned in?


----------



## Cmaier

Did not see “music” coming. AirPods?


----------



## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> You think Gelsinger is tuned in?



For sure he is


----------



## Cmaier

Agent47 said:


> For sure he is




He likes horror movies?


----------



## Cmaier

I don’t understand the “voice plan.”


----------



## Deleted member 221

Great... more subscription tiers
And one for "Siri only!" (sounds about as great as being in prison)

I hate Tim Cook - lol


----------



## Deleted member 221

I wish their device colors were this bold..


----------



## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> He likes horror movies?



Maybe masochistic tendencies


----------



## Joe

turbineseaplane said:


> I wish their device colors were this bold..




Yes, I would love an orange macbook lol


----------



## Cmaier

Tim, you’re killing me here. Get on with the Macs already.


----------



## Deleted member 221

AirPods!  YES!

Finally!


----------



## Cmaier

This lady seems pretty lethargic.


----------



## Deleted member 221

These look fantastic...   A worthy upgrade from my 1/2's
Not a huge fan of the case having to get larger though.

I didn't love that about the Pros


----------



## Renzatic

turbineseaplane said:


> I wish their device colors were this bold..




The new iMacs are.


----------



## Joe

I don't like that we have to press a button to control the airpods. I miss the tap feature.


----------



## Cmaier

MagSafe charging is interesting, I guess. I’ll probably buy these for my kid for the holidays. I can’t wear them - all airpods fall out of my ears.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Good price for there features on the new AirPods


----------



## Cmaier

M1 Pro?   Guess it’s Firestorm/Icestorm. But that means there really is a M1 Pro Max?


----------



## Cmaier

Double width memory interface is impressive.  Only 32GB memory, though.


----------



## Cmaier

Cmaier said:


> M1 Pro?   Guess it’s Firestorm/Icestorm. But that means there really is a M1 Pro Max?




M1 Pro Max = 32 GPU cores?


----------



## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> Only 32GB memory, though.



Yeah. Bummer


----------



## Cmaier

Hah. Just “M1 Max.”


----------



## Cmaier

Agent47 said:


> Yeah. Bummer



Nope. You just need the M1 Max


----------



## JayMysteri0

If those are the new Airpods, what will new Airpods Pro do?


----------



## leman

Firestorm confirmed, 400GB/s on the Max took me totally by surprise.


----------



## Cmaier

JayMysteri0 said:


> If those are the new Airpods, what will new Airpods Pro do?




“Find me” support and ear Tips?


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> Firestorm confirmed, 400GB/s on the Max took me totally by surprise.




That will have a HUGE effect on performance, since firestorm up until now seemed to be bandwidth-limited.


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Nope. You just need the M1 Max



I just got my M1 last year and the max is already making me feel bad about it.


----------



## Deleted member 221

JayMysteri0 said:


> If those are the new Airpods, what will new Airpods Pro do?




Noise Cancellation


----------



## Deleted member 221

"instant wake from sleep"

C'mon Craig - we know you don't sleep!


----------



## Deleted member 215

M1 Max is doooope.

Can't believe MaxTech actually sold "M1X" merch. Lol


----------



## Renzatic

I don't even know how much it costs yet, but I already know that a Max will require I sell at least one kidney to afford.


----------



## Agent47

Crazy shit. CC just jumped of out the window in fear


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> I don't even know how much it costs yet, but I already know that a Max will require I sell at least one kidney to afford.




My current machine is a 2016 MBP, and up until then I bought a new one every 2 years. I’m due.


----------



## JayMysteri0

I thought they were blazing thru announcements fast, now I see it was to spend the time shilling the new chips.


----------



## Cmaier

So odds are that the Pro and Max are the same SoC, but with GPU cores disabled and unused I/O?


----------



## Cmaier

JayMysteri0 said:


> I thought they were blazing thru announcements fast, now I see it was to spend the time shilling the new chips.




I heard they re-edited it this weekend just to fuck with Pat Gelsinger.


----------



## Cmaier

Is that MagSafe 2?


----------



## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> Is that MagSafe 2?



Indeed, I‘d say so


----------



## Cmaier

Notch!


----------



## Eric

All new MBP, completely re-engineered. All of us who bought last year's models are chumps.


----------



## Cmaier

Agent47 said:


> Indeed, I‘d say so




Glad I didn‘t get rid of all those magsafe bricks I have!


----------



## Deleted member 215

Notchbook Pro


----------



## Deleted member 221

Poor TouchBar
lol

Good f'in riddance


----------



## Joe

A notch lmao


----------



## Agent47

No strip above the keyboard… plus hdmi


----------



## Cmaier

Eric said:


> All new MBP, completely re-engineered. All of us who bought last year's models are chumps.



Well, yeah, but you saw that coming, right?


----------



## Cmaier

Cmaier said:


> Glad I didn‘t get rid of all those magsafe bricks I have!




Goddamnit. Magsafe 3.


----------



## Renzatic

New Macs have a headphone jack, and an SD card slot. That's...HILARIOUS!


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Well, yeah, but you saw that coming, right?



If you mean that every year they make you feel bad about what you bought last year, then yes, that's on me.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Great to see them flowing the menubar around the notch - smart


----------



## Agent47

There‘s the notch!


----------



## Cmaier

Side view looks pretty chunky


----------



## Deleted member 221

PRO MOTION!  YES!!!


----------



## Joe

Porn in 120Hz lol


----------



## Eric

If it's anything like the iPhone, I would never notice the notch anyway.


----------



## Deleted member 221

These are not going to be cheap


----------



## Deleted member 215

4K resolution on the 16". That's awesome.

Going to be super expensive though...


----------



## Cmaier

Eric said:


> If it's anything like the iPhone, I would never notice the notch anyway.




Yeah, i don’t watch full screen videos on my mac, either, so never going to notice it except if an app has too many menu bar items.


----------



## Joe

Notch doesn't look as bad as I thought it would.


----------



## Deleted member 221

JagRunner said:


> Notch doesn't look as bad as I thought it would.




Same - combined with the menubar moving around it, it makes total sense on the Mac


----------



## leman

My credit card is getting worried…


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> My credit card is getting worried…




Better use an Apple Card for that big 3% back


----------



## JayMysteri0

Spatial audio in the speakers?


----------



## Cmaier

Ah, the “Screw you, intel” slides…


----------



## Renzatic

I always hate Apple's performance charts. They're always so vague, not giving you any metrics on how they came to discover how or where it's 3.5x faster.


----------



## lizkat

Damn....  well this was gonna happen....  got the beachball on the event.    I usually get to see about 15 minutes of one of these and then enough people have texted friends "HEY APPLE UP"  --  and so connections struggling to feed people the event at DSL speeds start going south:    "later for you, baby,  download the thing in a few days,,,,"


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> I always hate Apple's performance charts. They're always so vague, not giving you any metrics on how they came to discover how or where it's 3.5x faster.



Yeah, but then everyone runs benchmarks and finds out apple undersold the numbers.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

I’m not a fan of Apple’s pastelification of everything. If they were doing interior design instead of tech hardware this would fall under “current trends that aren’t going to age well”. I imagine it might also decrease resale value limiting your options if you go with an unpopular color.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Ahh...the usual virtue signaling re: the environment 

I notice they avoid that topic when discussing AirPods


----------



## Deleted member 221

Love the MacBook presenter - she's fantastic - great energy


----------



## JayMysteri0

I imagine when they finally reveal the 16 inch's price tag, a coronary alert maybe needed world wide.


----------



## Cmaier

JayMysteri0 said:


> I imagine when they finally reveal the 16 inch's price tag, a coronary alert maybe needed world wide.




Price isn’t bad.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Available today, wow. Gotta order fast before supply-chain problems delay them until the new year!


----------



## JayMysteri0

Was that a $400 price increase on the base 14 inch?


----------



## leman

JayMysteri0 said:


> Was that a $400 price increase on the base 14 inch?




Totally warranted though. The upgrades are incredible.


----------



## Cmaier

JayMysteri0 said:


> Was that a $400 price increase on the base 14 inch?




Are you comparing to the high end 13”? This replaces the high end 13”, not the base (which is still available with M1)


----------



## JayMysteri0

TBL said:


> Available today, wow. Gotta order fast before supply-chain problems delay them until the new year!



Gonna have to wait for the site to update, and the inevitable crush.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Bummer on no higher spec for the Mini - was hoping that'd happen


----------



## Eric

JayMysteri0 said:


> I imagine when they finally reveal the 16 inch's price tag, a coronary alert maybe needed world wide.



Yep, no way I would ever be able to afford a new (this is the greatest Mac EVER!!!) every year and even if I could I wouldn't. Maybe decent if you're still on something several years old, otherwise the reality is real world differences won't be noticed by regular users. IMO this event was pretty lackluster.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Cmaier said:


> Are you comparing to the high end 13”? This replaces the high end 13”, not the base (which is still available with M1)



Not sure yet.  I went by the prices I noticed quickly yesterday.


----------



## Renzatic

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I’m not a fan of Apple’s pastelification of everything. If they were doing interior design instead of tech hardware this would fall under “current trends that aren’t going to age well”. I imagine it might also decrease resale value limiting your options if you go with an unpopular color.




PEA GREEN IMACS! BEST COLOR EVER!


----------



## Renzatic

Eric said:


> Yep, no way I would ever be able to afford a new (this is the greatest Mac EVER!!!) every year and even if I could I wouldn't. Maybe decent if you're still on something several years old, otherwise the reality is real world differences won't be noticed by regular users. IMO this event was pretty lackluster.




For me, who's needing some CPU and GPU oomph, it's been a great event. If that 16" MBP M1 Pro is $2500 with 32GB RAM, I'm buying it.


----------



## leman

Aaaa, the Apple Store is crashing…


----------



## Eric

Renzatic said:


> For me, who's needing some CPU and GPU oomph, it's been a great event. If that 16" MBP M1 Pro is $2500 with 32GB RAM, I'm buying it.



Fair enough, out of curiosity will this be your first M1?


----------



## Joe

Apple site is crashing and super slow.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Yup. Everyone knows if they don't order right now the delay will be a month or more...


----------



## Deleted member 221

Quickly got my AirPods 3 order in before it slowed to a crawl - phew!

Sure wish they would have designed in some way to replace the batteries or swap program 
Oh well - love AirPods too much to pass it up


----------



## JayMysteri0

I may have to wait.

The base model for me after trade in & gift cards comes to $459.00, which I would jump all over.

Except, ...no pickup at Apple stores.  I prefer doing my trade in physically in store, so I can insure no nonsense.

So I may not get one until next year.  

Have to hope I can do the same as the iPhone, and check on day of.


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> I may have to wait.
> 
> The base model for me after trade in & gift cards comes to $459.00, which I would jump all over.
> 
> Except, ...no pickup at Apple stores.  I prefer doing my trade in physically in store, so I can insure no nonsense.
> 
> So I may not get one until next year.




All that and to you for only 459, wow.   Congratulations, even if it's next spring!


----------



## Deleted member 215

Wonder if 32-core GPU is worth it. Should I just get 24-core GPU?

There are so many chip options that they didn't mention.


----------



## lizkat

TBL said:


> Wonder if 32-core GPU is worth it. Should I just get 24-core GPU?
> 
> There are so many chip options that they didn't mention.




Wait for the benchmarks...


----------



## JayMysteri0

lizkat said:


> All that and to you for only 459, wow.   Congratulations, even if it's next spring!



Maybe.  I'm only looking at the base model, NO modifications.  So hoping I can get that in store on release day.

Apple made it easy when I got my new iPhone, I wondered why anyone NOT getting a iPhone 13 Pro Max Blue, even bothered pre ordering.


----------



## leman

Ordered my M1 Max, the price is hefty, but then again, one has to splurge once in a while


----------



## Deleted member 215

Delivery dates already in December for 16".


----------



## Cmaier

Phew. Ordered. Max 16” with 4TB.


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> Ordered my M1 Max, the price is hefty, but then again, one has to splurge once in a while




Preaching to the choir.  64GB/4TB 16“ max here.  Space gray.


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> Delivery dates already in December for 16".




I got Nov 10—17.  I also ordered some of the 140W adapters and usb-c-to-MagSafe 3 cables.


----------



## lizkat

turbineseaplane said:


> Bummer on no higher spec for the Mini - was hoping that'd happen




Heh, yeah...  well so the speculation on Mini-up is over for awhile again.  I keep this poll result handy.


----------



## JayMysteri0

I'm thinking I will try on next Friday, and put on the big boy pants & hope the base 16 inch is available for in store purchase.


----------



## Cmaier

turbineseaplane said:


> Bummer on no higher spec for the Mini - was hoping that'd happen




Likely around march or april there will be an event for that and for the high end iMacs.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Preaching to the choir.  64GB/4TB 16“ max here.  Space gray.




I'm ordering mine in December, but I'm going more midline. 24 core Max, 32GB RAM, 500GB SSD.


----------



## lizkat

Cmaier said:


> Likely around march or april there will be an event for that and for the high end iMacs.




God willing they'll finally have built some faster robo-crane-operators and hired some more truck drivers to clear up the lingering covid-triggered supply chain bollix and ensuing containership congestion at the port of Los Angeles.   Else one will have to move to Southeast Asia or China to get delivery.


----------



## Cmaier

Confirmed that the usb-c ports can still be used for charging. MagSafe seems to only buy you fast charging (And trip-proofing)


----------



## Cmaier

lizkat said:


> God willing they'll finally have built some faster robo-crane-operators and hired some more truck drivers to clear up the lingering covid-triggered supply chain bollix and ensuing containership congestion at the port of Los Angeles.




Main problem is the toilet paper shortage at the spaceship campus - engineers keep having to go home to poop.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Renzatic said:


> I'm ordering mine in December, but I'm going more midline. 24 core Max, 32GB RAM, 500GB SSD.




Same, but I'm doing 1 TB SSD. My lossless music collection is over 300 GB. I've still never used over half the capacity in a 1 TB SSD so no need to go bigger. 

Unfortunately can't order with Apple Card because I just got my Apple Card last month and credit line isn't high enough


----------



## Renzatic

TBL said:


> Same, but I'm doing 1 TB SSD. My lossless music collection is over 300 GB. I've still never used over half the capacity in a 1 TB SSD so no need to go bigger.




I don't have a massive need for a lot of storage space, since I send all my big media files over to my 3TB NAS for storage. With all that out of the way, I'm barely using up 200GB on my OS drive.


----------



## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> Phew. Ordered. Max 16” with 4TB.



Same, just 2 TB


----------



## Deleted member 215

Got my order in. $3629.78 with tax. Had to order with PayPal credit. But I will try to avoid paying interest.


----------



## Joe

TheYayAreaLiving is probably ordering one of each lol


----------



## Entropy

Well, I have to say I was blown away by the memory solution they went for. And the block they indicated as cache was substantial, although we’ll have to wait for hard data on size and performance. But this SoC seems built to perform, not just post big numbers. But maybe I’m still reeling from the surprise.
Well shit. 
I configured and almost bought a laptop. And I don’t even want a laptop. Techno Lust at its worst.


----------



## Alli

Just a little disappointed. I didn’t want to spend $2500 on a Pro model when I really no longer need a pro model. So I went ahead and ordered the 13” Air that came out a few months back since it has the M1 processor. 1TB storage and I’ll be good for a long time.

The new MBPs do look amazing though.


----------



## Cmaier

JagRunner said:


> TheYayAreaLiving is probably ordering one of each lol




No, she(?) is just *saying* she is.


----------



## Cmaier

Entropy said:


> Well, I have to say I was blown away by the memory solution they went for. And the block they indicated as cache was substantial, although we’ll have to wait for hard data on size and performance. But this SoC seems built to perform, not just post big numbers. But maybe I’m still reeling from the surprise.
> Well shit.
> I configured and almost bought a laptop. And I don’t even want a laptop. Techno Lust at its worst.




Given the reported memory bandwidth, the caches must be much bigger. But what really matters is bandwidth, anyway.  Latency is only going to be an issue for very unusual workloads.  And given the number of transistors on this thing, the branch prediction algorithm may be pretty advanced.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> No, she(?) is just *saying* she is.




You never know with some people. Apple does attract a lot of fake-it-til-you-make-it rich fashionista wannabe types. They may do something crazy like that simply to build their rep on Instagram, then silently return all but one afterwards.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> You never know with some people. Apple does attract a lot of fake-it-til-you make rich fashionista wannabe types. They may do something crazy like that simply to build their rep on Instagram, then silently return all but one afterwards.




What’s funny about her (?) is that she always says she is buying everything, even when it makes no sense. She owns the top-of-the-line iPad Pro, but then gets all excited about the new bottom-of-the-line ipad.  etc.   When she makes those posts I always “dislike” them, and she gets mad and goes on a rampage of disliking my posts.  I think she’s trying to maximize her like count.


----------



## Runs For Fun

I was kind of scratching my head about the Apple Music Voice plan. Seems kind of odd. I think it's kind of like the iPod Shuffle of Apple Music.


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> I was kind of scratching my head about the Apple Music Voice plan. Seems kind of odd. I think it's kind of like the iPod Shuffle of Apple Music.




Yeah I am very confused. I take it the deal is you can’t use the music app, but have to ask Siri to play stuff? And it is missing some audio features? Maybe it’s good for people who only use HomePods? (But don’t own iphones? Who are those people?)


----------



## Cmaier

The max can drive 3 pro xdr displays, plus a 4k tv, simultaneously.  Small step up from the M1


----------



## Entropy

Runs For Fun said:


> I was kind of scratching my head about the Apple Music Voice plan. Seems kind of odd. I think it's kind of like the iPod Shuffle of Apple Music.



Yup, that was - odd. And the notch is bound to create a lot controversy, it’s the kind of thing everyone can have opinions on. Overall though, performance, design, connectivity, screen all adds up to a surprisingly sane total package.


----------



## Renzatic

Entropy said:


> Yup, that was - odd. And the notch is bound to create a lot controversy




It's a little weird, but it's not really all that distracting. The element density seems to be high enough that any application with enough menu entries to possibly cross the notch will be few and far between.

They did show one app that just managed to come up next to it, and it took about 7-8 menus to do so.

Movies also won't be too much of an issue, since it's a 16:10 screen, meaning that the notch will be hidden away in the letterboxing


----------



## floridakilos

JagRunner said:


> TheYayAreaLiving is probably ordering one of each lol



I get secondhand embarrassment whenever I see her comments.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Today really highlights what a value the initial M1 stuff is


----------



## zakarhino

Cmaier said:


> welcome! So glad to see you here!  BTW, here you are free to call anyone you want “technically incompetent” and I am free to say “it’s all in your head” without month-long suspensions and threats of permanent bans, I’m told.




They deleted my reply calling your suspension too harsh...


----------



## zakarhino

I went with Space Grey 16" M1 Max (32 core GPU), 64GB RAM, 2TB of storage. My sister ordered the same spec but in Silver. I ordered within 60 seconds of the store opening so I got a Tuesday 26th delivery. My sister ordered less than 20-30 minutes later and got a December shipping date. Kinda sucks but it is what it is. She's excited about what kinda performance she'll get with 3D packages like Cinema 4D, as am I. I think battery life will be the biggest game changer for me because of times when I'm on the road visiting offices and presenting stuff on my laptop plugged into a TV/projector with HDMI. With my current Mac I have to constantly worry about whether or not the office I'm visiting will have a charger on hand (and honestly faffing around asking about a charger is embarrassing when I'm there to make a good impression), or I don't feel I can freely make edits on my laptop before the meeting in case I don't have enough battery left to present. These issues should be vaporized with M1's efficiency but only time will tell.

Better performance all around without the machine melting, ProMotion with miniLED, and _actually usable battery life_ were the key elements that made this a no-brainer for me.


----------



## Cmaier

zakarhino said:


> They deleted my reply calling your suspension too harsh...



Yeah, we noticed that


----------



## Cmaier

zakarhino said:


> I went with Space Grey 16" M1 Max (32 core GPU), 64GB RAM, 2TB of storage. My sister ordered the same spec but in Silver. I ordered within 60 seconds of the store opening so I got a Tuesday 26th delivery. My sister ordered less than 20-30 minutes later and got a December shipping date. Kinda sucks but it is what it is. She's excited about what kinda performance she'll get with 3D packages like Cinema 4D.
> 
> Better performance all around without the machine melting, ProMotion with miniLED, and _actually usable battery life_ were the key elements that made this a no-brainer for me.




Battery life in the real world will be very interesting.  To what extent did they tune this for maximum performance vs. power.  We don’t know the peak clock rates or much of anything else yet.


----------



## Eric

turbineseaplane said:


> Today really highlights what a value the initial M1 stuff is



Last year they touted the first iteration of the M1 as the greatest thing since Christ walked on water, this year, it's the max or pro, or FU... not a single word about it. They're experts at sales and marketing, how else can they convince millions to upgrade an iPhone on an annual basis when the marginal changes are nearly invisible to the naked eye.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> Yeah I am very confused. I take it the deal is you can’t use the music app, but have to ask Siri to play stuff? And it is missing some audio features? Maybe it’s good for people who only use HomePods? (But don’t own iphones? Who are those people?)



Can you even set up a HomePod without an iPhone or iPad?


----------



## Herdfan

Renzatic said:


> The major reason why I'll never buy a pair of AirPods is because they look like they'd be easily misplaced, or lost between couch cushions. I don't want to pay $200 for something I know I'll lose in a month.




Offspring is on like her 3rd set for that very reason.


----------



## Entropy

I honestly don’t get this fascination Apple seems to have with talking to your tablets, your speakers, the lights, the walls, … I guess it’s a cultural thing. I’m surrounded by people with iPhones on a daily basis, and _nobody_ talks to Siri. _Ever_. 
Siri is available, but simply isn’t used over here.
Oh well. 

Even SSD speeds were really good.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Eric said:


> Last year they touted the first iteration of the M1 as the greatest thing since Christ walked on water, this year, it's the max or pro, or FU... not a single word about it. They're experts at sales and marketing, how else can they convince millions to upgrade an iPhone on an annual basis when the marginal changes are nearly invisible to the naked eye.




I'm not really following in the same way

The M1 is still fantastic and the value for the performance offered is outstanding (still!)

What was released today is really targeting an entirely different market


----------



## Eric

turbineseaplane said:


> I'm not really following in the same way
> 
> The M1 is still fantastic and the value for the performance offered is outstanding (still!)
> 
> *What was released today is really targeting an entirely different market*



I am referring to the MBP, this was highlighted as one of their latest and greatest today. It was last year, too, only with the original M1 chip.


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> Can you even set up a HomePod without an iPhone or iPad?




I don’t know, but I doubt it.  Maybe that’s coming next.  A lot of things don’t make sense to me about this.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Eric said:


> I am referring to the MBP, this was highlighted as one of their latest and greatest today. It was last year, too, only with the original M1 chip.




Oh - yeah -- to the uninformed out there, it was a con operation on that Pro for sure.
Never should have been a "Pro" M1 -- it really wasn't/isn't one -- good point


----------



## Cmaier

Eric said:


> I am referring to the MBP, this was highlighted as one of their latest and greatest today. It was last year, too, only with the original M1 chip.




well, both of those things can be true.  Last year’s MBP was remarkable because at the price point of the bottom of the line MBP they provided performance that exceeded pretty much everything else out there (and definitely at that price point), by quite a lot.

This time they’ve provided a top-of-the-line MBP that will likely outperform all but the most kitted out desktop machines.  

These new machines don’t replace last year’s machines - it was always understood that the “base” MBP would be M1 and the “fancy” MBP would be what they were calling “M1X,” at least for now.  It was also understood that the 13” was a transitional product, and in a couple of years the base model was going become 14”.  

I think we’ll see it evolve so that the “base” model will be a 14” with limited ports and M2, and then you have the higher end 14” and the 16” with all the ports and M2 Pro and M2 Max.    They’ve treated the “base” ”small” MBP as a different thing for awhile now.

I assume that the MBAs also get the base M2, and that for minis and iMacs you end up with all three choices, depending on screen size, etc.   I would *guess* that. given the timing, the ”big” imac will get M2 (with avalanche cores) and never see an M1 variant, but who knows.  Could also be that for the iMacs they offer an upgrade to whatever the Mac Pro will use ( “M2 Pro Max Extreme?”)

Mac Pro is its own beast.


----------



## lizkat

Cmaier said:


> I don’t know, but I doubt it.  Maybe that’s coming next.  A lot of things don’t make sense to me about this.




Saved this meme for something exactly like the combo of the Homepod MIni and a Siri-run Music plan.


​


----------



## Cmaier

Some other technical notes:

- new processors use LPDDR5 (probably -6400)
- looks to me like two SLC blocks, each with 16MB. Very curious how they handle affinity.
- Even if these are firestorm high performance cores, I still think the high efficiency cores are not icestorm.  Can’t be sure yet.
- 2 x 12MB L2 caches. (Again, affinity is an interesting question. Since apple controls the scheduler in the OS, this could offset the potential issues in this sort of design)
- The max is 432 mm^2.  He’s a big boy.
- Max’s i/o bandwidth would put it in the same league has high-end discrete GPUs.
- the “pro” is not just a “max” with disabled portions.  These are distinct die.
- since they are talking about the big GPU using 100W less than the competition, looks to me like the total SoC power consumption might hit over 100W at peak?


----------



## Clix Pix

Entropy said:


> I honestly don’t get this fascination Apple seems to have with talking to your tablets, your speakers, the lights, the walls, … I guess it’s a cultural thing. I’m surrounded by people with iPhones on a daily basis, and _nobody_ talks to Siri. _Ever_.
> Siri is available, but simply isn’t used over here.
> Oh well.
> 
> Even SSD speeds were really good.




I don't use Siri;  she doesn't understand me and I'll bet the same applies to a lot of other users for different reasons.  Siri and voice-operated this-and-that are not the be-all-and-end-all for many folks.  I found myself getting rather annoyed by the happy announcement that "now even more people will have access to voice-operation for their music!" or whatever it was they were saying.  Of course, for a monthly charge and special subscription, that is....  No, thanks!


----------



## Deleted member 221

Yeah - Siri based Music plan is weird.

It seems to be done simply to hit a price point

Given how poor Siri can be, it's basically a "random music shuffle" plan


----------



## Joe

I never use Siri so that's out.


----------



## lizkat

turbineseaplane said:


> Yeah - Siri based Music plan is weird.
> 
> It seems to be done simply to hit a price point
> 
> Given how poor Siri can be, it's basically a "random music shuffle" plan





Yeah....  they need a better vamping routine to keep from going straight to "Sorry Dave, I can't do that".

Lizkat:  "Hey Siri, quit Music on my XR and then on my MBA open my nonAppleMusic library and play the pizzicato from Bartok's fourth string quartet, the Takacs version".

Siri:   "How about some popcorn while you wait?"

btw somehow Apple in the recent past has managed to revive a MacOS bug they had actually killed for awhile in Big Sur, so  play counts and date last played don't update sometimes even if you do have "Use Listening HIstory" turned on everywhere on all your Mac or iOS devices and are signed into the same ID on them all too.


----------



## Ulenspiegel

Entropy said:


> I honestly don’t get this fascination Apple seems to have with talking to your tablets, your speakers, the lights, the walls, … I guess it’s a cultural thing. I’m surrounded by people with iPhones on a daily basis, and _nobody_ talks to Siri. _Ever_.
> Siri is available, but simply isn’t used over here.
> Oh well.
> 
> Even SSD speeds were really good.




You don't have to talk to Siri.

It (she) reads your mind smoothly like _aluminium_.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Cmaier said:


> well, both of those things can be true.  Last year’s MBP was remarkable because at the price point of the bottom of the line MBP they provided performance that exceeded pretty much everything else out there (and definitely at that price point), by quite a lot.
> 
> This time they’ve provided a top-of-the-line MBP that will likely outperform all but the most kitted out desktop machines.
> 
> These new machines don’t replace last year’s machines - it was always understood that the “base” MBP would be M1 and the “fancy” MBP would be what they were calling “M1X,” at least for now.  It was also understood that the 13” was a transitional product, and in a couple of years the base model was going become 14”.
> 
> I think we’ll see it evolve so that the “base” model will be a 14” with limited ports and M2, and then you have the higher end 14” and the 16” with all the ports and M2 Pro and M2 Max.    They’ve treated the “base” ”small” MBP as a different thing for awhile now.
> 
> I assume that the MBAs also get the base M2, and that for minis and iMacs you end up with all three choices, depending on screen size, etc.   I would *guess* that. given the timing, the ”big” imac will get M2 (with avalanche cores) and never see an M1 variant, but who knows.  Could also be that for the iMacs they offer an upgrade to whatever the Mac Pro will use ( “M2 Pro Max Extreme?”)
> 
> Mac Pro is its own beast.



That was my take.  Apple seems to be obsessed of having multiple versions of the SAME thing, so that customers always have 3 options in seemingly every Apple product.  Whether it's headphones, phones, tablets, their computers.

They introduced early on the 'entry' version of M1, even with the Pro series of Macbooks.  Now they have mid tier of course labelled pro, and their high end as Max.

If it's M1, it's already something for pros, over their basic versions.  Slapped in a 'Pro' version, it's meant for anyone who does 'Pro' work over reading emails & consuming media.

Really? Airpods / Airpods Pro / Airpods Again / 3rd Gen...  Oh, and Beats & Airpods Max


----------



## lizkat

In photos, Apple always shows the Homepod mini with the cord attached.  Apparently it's a nondetachable USB-C cable that needs to stay plugged into wall juice via a 20w adapter  (or maybe to a powerbank for more portability?).    
It's confusing about how it requires you to have one of the listed iOS devices,  at least to set it up, because later on when listing the compatible audio sources, at the end of that list it also says you can do this:

   "AirPlay other content to HomePod mini from iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, *Apple TV, or Mac*".

Sort of confusing.


----------



## lizkat

JayMysteri0 said:


> Really? Airpods / Airpods Pro / Airpods Again / 3rd Gen...  Oh, and Beats & Airpods Max




But a headphone jack in the new laptops because...


----------



## lizkat

Ulenspiegel said:


> You don't have to talk to Siri.
> 
> It (she) reads your mind smoothly like _aluminium_.




Or like glass.  Especially if you have a larger iPhone.


​


----------



## Deleted member 221

JayMysteri0 said:


> Apple seems to be obsessed of having multiple versions of the SAME thing, so that customers always have 3 options in seemingly every Apple product. Whether it's headphones, phones, tablets, their computers.




That is directly attributable, in my view, to Bean counter Tim

He loves having a confusing SKU-fest and doesn’t really care what the lineups look like or if they make much sense.

“Just give us money” is about his level of concern.

There simply isn’t product guy leadership anymore, and it shows.


----------



## JayMysteri0

lizkat said:


> But a headphone jack in the new laptops because...



It takes "courage" to correct the issues one causes.

Much like SD card readers, and yet another proprietary plug that no one wanted gone in the first place.


----------



## Cmaier

Benchmark with M1 Max:

Geekbench 5, 1749 single, 11542 multi-core

That is around the same score as a Mac Pro with 12-core CPU.


----------



## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> It takes "courage" to correct the issues one causes.
> 
> Much like SD card readers, and yet another proprietary plug that no one wanted gone in the first place.




Give them credit where it's due. With the improved keyboards, removal of the touchbar, the SD card slot, and the headphone jack, this is about the biggest admission of "hey, we fucked up, sorry" I've ever seen from Apple.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> That is around the same score as a Mac Pro with 12-core CPU.




Which sports a desktop class CPU, right? If so, that's highly impressive.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Which sports a desktop class CPU, right? If so, that's highly impressive.




Yep. As predicted (by me), to beat Apple, Intel needs 16 or 24 cores (and that only beats them on multi-core). 

The Apple  Mac Pro chip (Jade 4c) may double-up on all the hardware, and will slaughter intel at a fraction of the power


----------



## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> Give them credit where it's due. With the improved keyboards, removal of the touchbar, the SD card slot, and the headphone jack, this is about the biggest admission of "hey, we fucked up, sorry" I've ever seen from Apple.



That's just it.

Checking the promotional material, there isn't any admissions.

Just new selling points, by making what was old, ...new.

Thanks Apple, we get back the things that made us like Apple products.  That's marketing 101, take away what's loved, so they'll be more appreciated when they are returned.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> Yep. As predicted (by me), to beat Apple, Intel needs 16 or 24 cores (and that only beats them on multi-core).
> 
> The Apple  Mac Pro chip (Jade 4c) may double-up on all the hardware, and will slaughter intel at a fraction of the power




If that Geekbench is correct, then that means the M1 Max is in the same class as a Ryzen 5800-5900x. For a low powered laptop CPU, that's absolutely insane.

Plus, there's also the fact that Apple dared to directly compare their GPUs to laptops equipped with Geforce 3080s. 

Now I know that synthetic benchmarks should always be taken with a grain of salt, but still...


----------



## Cmaier

JayMysteri0 said:


> That's just it.
> 
> Checking the promotional material, there isn't any admissions.
> 
> Just new selling points, by making what was old, ...new.
> 
> Thanks Apple, we get back the things that made us like Apple products.  That's marketing 101, take away what's loved, so they'll be more appreciated when they are returned.




Just be happy


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> If that Geekbench is correct, then that means the M1 Max is in the same class as a Ryzen 5800-5900x. For a low powered laptop CPU, that's absolutely insane.
> 
> Plus, there's also the fact that Apple dared to directly compare their GPUs to laptops equipped with Geforce 3080s.
> 
> Now I know that synthetic benchmarks should always be taken with a grain of salt, but still...




Well, the numbers make sense, more or less, if you scale the M1 numbers.


----------



## Deleted member 221

I was really hoping for a new Apple monitor today…

I remain bummed that they won’t package up a 5k 27” panel in an Apple enclosure and get something out there for those of us with no need or budget for an XDR


----------



## Pumbaa

M1 Pro and M1 Max sound great. Nice with more ports. A bit confusing with different kinds of MagSafe.

Still sticking to my M1 Mini for the foreseeable future, it does what I need it to do (and does it well), simply not in the market for a laptop at this time.


----------



## Deleted member 221

Pumbaa said:


> Still sticking to my M1 Mini for the foreseeable future




What specs do you have?


----------



## Pumbaa

turbineseaplane said:


> What specs do you have?



Got the M1 with 16GiB/1TB. Unfortunately only the gigabit NIC, ordered too early for the 10GbE option, that’s pretty much my only “regret” if I’m calling it that. Would have been nice to have. My fracking Internet can fully saturate the gigabit link.


----------



## User.45

lizkat said:


> Saved this meme for something exactly like the combo of the Homepod MIni and a Siri-run Music plan.
> 
> View attachment 9255​



Thanks for the chuckles


Renzatic said:


> If that Geekbench is correct, then that means the M1 Max is in the same class as a Ryzen 5800-5900x. For a low powered laptop CPU, that's absolutely insane.
> 
> Plus, there's also the fact that Apple dared to directly compare their GPUs to laptops equipped with Geforce 3080s.
> 
> Now I know that synthetic benchmarks should always be taken with a grain of salt, but still...




TBF this was the best MBP upgrade in the past 7 years. I got a 13" intel Air 1.5years ago, and now that I charge it thru my external monitor with an external webcam attached, the only upgrade that would make a difference on my day-to-day use is the speakers.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Scepticalscribe

leman said:


> Hi everyone, hope I am not too late to the party  This place definitely looks cozier than MR and it's nice to see so many familiar names. @Cmaier, how is your exile going?
> 
> Wish everyone a fun keynote and may the new MacBooks be what all of us want them to be!



Great to see you here, and you are very welcome; make yourself at home.  

Why not introduce yourself in the "Welcome New Members" thread?


----------



## Cmaier

theSeb said:


> So using the battery as a “capacitor“ when  needed? lower pro models only get a 67W charger, versus a 96W.



Hard to say. The MagSafe charger is 140w, so maybe it throttles down the peak if you aren’t using that charger. I also suppose this means it doesn’t support the new high power usb-c charging spec?


----------



## Deleted member 221

I am a little bit bummed that they didn’t do ethernet through the power adapter in a way similar to the new iMacs

(at least optionally)


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Cmaier

theSeb said:


> Ahh, I didn’t realise that there is a 140w charger, since I’ve only been looking at the 14” model. The 14” Apple M1 Pro with 8-core CPU, 14-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine comes with a 67w charger. Everything above that comes with 96w charger. They are offering the 140w charger for all of the 16” models. Now I really want to see the difference in benchmarks between m1 max 14” and m1 max 16” and whether the 140w charger makes a difference for the 14”. 140w seems like a weird choice considering the high power usbc spec. They would have known about it coming, so no reason to do it the apple way and do their own thing.




That’s why it would be really interesting to know if they actually support the usbc spec too, but it seems not.


----------



## Cmaier

Looks like fast charging on the 16” requires MagSafe with the 140W charger, but you can fast charge on the 14” without it (you may need to use a 97W charger?)

I wonder if there’s a way to tell it *not* to fast charge, regardless of the charger.


----------



## Hrafn

Runs For Fun said:


> Pretty much.



No. Despite all appearances, I'm a bit selective about who I invite.  

I expect that to get me banned any time now.

I will _not_ invite hazmat, PowerfulPeach or appledouche at any point.

Or, anyone on my ignore list.  I'm down to about 400 now...


----------



## Clix Pix

OK, now I'm confused.    I have an LG 24" 4K Thunderbolt 3 monitor which plugs right into one of the four USB/Thunderbolt 3 ports on my 2018 MBP.   Works a treat, keeps both itself and the MBP charged up.  When I turn on the MBP the external monitor turns on as well.    I've been loving this for the past nearly two years that I've had it.

So now..... Apple pulls a whammy and delivers new MBPs with an HDMI port and an SD card slot (neither of which I'm the least bit interested in) and only THREE USB-C/Thunderbolt 4 ports.   If I use the Magsafe to charge the machine, fine, that leaves three Thunderbolt  ports free for other stuff, but what happens when I plug in that LG monitor?  It'll take up one of those Thunderbolt ports, for one thing, and I don't know if it will get confused and also try to keep both itself and the MBP charged.   If I wanted to plug it into one of the Thunderbolt ports and ignore the Magsafe charging port altogether, no issue there except that again it's gonna take up one of the three valuable Thunderbolt ports, leaving me with only two and the stupid Magsafe port goes to waste.....   Sigh....   I suppose I could just go with getting a hub and plugging stuff into that, which would leave the ports on the machine free, but I really don't want to do that.   Thankfully, I've lots of time to see how things are going to work out for other people in the real world before I confront this situation myself in a few months, but of course I'm already thinking about it now.


----------



## Cmaier

Clix Pix said:


> OK, now I'm confused.    I have an LG 24" 4K Thunderbolt 3 monitor which plugs right into one of the four USB/Thunderbolt 3 ports on my 2018 MBP.   Works a treat, keeps both itself and the MBP charged up.  When I turn on the MBP the external monitor turns on as well.    I've been loving this for the past nearly two years that I've had it.
> 
> So now..... Apple pulls a whammy and delivers new MBPs with an HDMI port and an SD card slot (neither of which I'm the least bit interested in) and only THREE USB-C/Thunderbolt 4 ports.   If I use the Magsafe to charge the machine, fine, that leaves three Thunderbolt  ports free for other stuff, but what happens when I plug in that LG monitor?  It'll take up one of those Thunderbolt ports, for one thing, and I don't know if it will get confused and also try to keep both itself and the MBP charged.   If I wanted to plug it into one of the Thunderbolt ports and ignore the Magsafe charging port altogether, no issue there except that again it's gonna take up one of the three valuable Thunderbolt ports, leaving me with only two and the stupid Magsafe port goes to waste.....   Sigh....   I suppose I could just go with getting a hub and plugging stuff into that, which would leave the ports on the machine free, but I really don't want to do that.   Thankfully, I've lots of time to see how things are going to work out for other people in the real world before I confront this situation myself in a few months, but of course I'm already thinking about it now.



Should be no problem plugging the LG monitor into the thunderbolt port - it won’t try and power the mac as long as the mac is receiving power from the MagSafe.


----------



## Clix Pix

Thanks!   That is what I was wondering.....I thought there might be conflict somewhere along the line.   Of course I am not happy with the idea that this will then take up a Thunderbolt/USB-C port and I'll only have two to use, but I really don't use three at a time all that often, just once in a great while....


----------



## MEJHarrison

These look great, but I'll be passing.  First, after 7 years, I picked last March to upgrade my laptop.  Just a few months before the M1 was announced.  And second, I got a new laptop just in time to start working at home and not need a laptop at all really.

I'll hold off jumping into the Apple silicon game until I can replace my 2017 iMac.  I've got the 27", so the new smaller ones really aren't appealing.  I could go Mac mini I suppose, but I really like my Apple screen.  So I'll be patient for now and wait for them to refresh the 27".


----------



## Cmaier

Clix Pix said:


> Thanks!   That is what I was wondering.....I thought there might be conflict somewhere along the line.   Of course I am not happy with the idea that this will then take up a Thunderbolt/USB-C port and I'll only have two to use, but I really don't use three at a time all that often, just once in a great while....




Well, if you use MagSafe, then you have 3 USB/TB ports.  If you currently use USB for power, then you only have 3 USB ports available. 

So it seems to me you are no worse off, other than if you are using the USB port for both power and data, which, of course, happens for some situations like yours. Overall not worse for most people, and probably better for most.

BUT, the HDMI port is only HDMI 2.0 (which is not a surprise to me - I predicted that many months ago on MR, due to TB bandwidth, and my guess that they are using a TB channel for this. (There is a way to support encoding onto less bandwidth, but it is not universally supported).


----------



## leman

Apple seems to hav some issues with the order volume right now. I messed up too  I ordered a 16", then realized that I didn't use educational discount. So I ordered another one with the intent to cancel the first order. Apparently the two M1 Max put my credit card over it's limit. The first payment went through (and has been canceled), the second didn't go through. I have tried three other credit cards, and every time Apple says "authorization denied". The hotline is completely swamped so I can't reach anyone. I think I'm screwed. By the time this gets figured out my shipping time will be January...


----------



## Cmaier

leman said:


> Apple seems to hav some issues with the order volume right now. I messed up too  I ordered a 16", then realized that I didn't use educational discount. So I ordered another one with the intent to cancel the first order. Apparently the two M1 Max put my credit card over it's limit. The first payment went through (and has been canceled), the second didn't go through. I have tried three other credit cards, and every time Apple says "authorization denied". The hotline is completely swamped so I can't reach anyone. I think I'm screwed. By the time this gets figured out my shipping time will be January...



Ouch. That’s awful.


----------



## Pumbaa

So, about that notch…

What happens when the cursor tries to enter the notch region? Does it go under the notch to hide? Does it bounce off the notch with a cute sound effect? Does it just stop and scream out in agony? Does it portal to the other end? Does it just slide along the edge?


----------



## Cmaier

Pumbaa said:


> So, about that notch…
> 
> What happens when the cursor tries to enter the notch region? Does it go under the notch to hide? Does it bounce off the notch with a cute sound effect? Does it just stop and scream out in agony? Does it portal to the other end? Does it just slide along the edge?



Good question. I bet it does the same thing as when you butt up against the top of the screen.


----------



## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> So, about that notch…
> 
> What happens when the cursor tries to enter the notch region? Does it go under the notch to hide? Does it bounce off the notch with a cute sound effect? Does it just stop and scream out in agony? Does it portal to the other end? Does it just slide along the edge?




I hear it disappears, and you never get it back.


----------



## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> I hear it disappears, and you never get it back.



No problem, Apple will sell you another for $29 or a pack of four for $99.

Next generation of cursors rumored to support Find My. Looking forward to that!


----------



## DT

JFC, I leave for a few days, forget to lock up and look what happens - the place fills up with riffraff ...


----------



## DT

So the big event is today, right?  Predictions?





Oh wait ...


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> So the big event is today, right?  Predictions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait ...




Apple cancelled it, cuz no one got their vaccinations.


----------



## DT

Renzatic said:


> Apple cancelled it, cuz no one got their vaccinations.




Yoinks.  I was hoping for a full Touch Keyboard™ on the new machines.


----------



## Alli

Bright colors for the Homepod mini! Hot damn!

No, I’m still not getting one, and Siri still sucks. I use it exactly once a month on the 19th to set a 40 minute timer so I’ll know that I can now eat and take my pills after my Boniva. Other than that, it’s Alexa all the way.


----------



## Pumbaa

DT said:


> So the big event is today, right?  Predictions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait ...



No need to wait! There’s already a leaked copy of the event posted by Apple! They even included some predictions below the video. Clumsy.









						Apple Event
					

Watch the latest Apple keynote stream, and check out the archive of special event announcements for our products and services.



					www.apple.com


----------



## DT

Just to keep my geek cred intact ...

When we got back home, I slung all the bags into the garage, ran in, grabbed a beer a fired up the event. 

Wife watched too, she faded during a few of the slow paced "Let me review the features ONE MORE TIME ..." moments, I sort of did too.

Wife afterwards:  "If you need one of those, get one, and use the business card"


----------



## DT

I was a little surprised they didn't dump the 14" internals into a Mini case and call it a day (per the previous M1 designs), but the M1P/M1M (what's the currently accepted short form?), may require a little more engineering - or - there's something else on deck that's a little more-than-a-Mini.

That said, I'm tempted to just get a 14",  32GB / 1TB with the M1Max, which would pretty much be my Mini spec.  When I got my Mini the equivalent notebook in terms of CPU/RAM was about $900-1000 more, but that would've had a substantially better GPU, and of course, been fully mobile (vs. easily portable ).


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## DT

theSeb said:


> I reckon this is purely a potential shortage / able to meet supplies for more profitable stuff (mbp) strategy / thing. Once the initial hype and ordering dies down and Apple is happy that they can meet the demand for the higher profit devices, they will shove in the m1 pro / max into the mac mini case, which I highly suspect has much less profit margins and sales.




That's a great point, and the Mini has just been quietly updated in the past, it's not =event worthy=


----------



## Clix Pix

Cmaier said:


> Well, if you use MagSafe, then you have 3 USB/TB ports.  If you currently use USB for power, then you only have 3 USB ports available.
> 
> So it seems to me you are no worse off, other than if you are using the USB port for both power and data, which, of course, happens for some situations like yours. Overall not worse for most people, and probably better for most.
> 
> BUT, the HDMI port is only HDMI 2.0 (which is not a surprise to me - I predicted that many months ago on MR, due to TB bandwidth, and my guess that they are using a TB channel for this. (There is a way to support encoding onto less bandwidth, but it is not universally supported).



Right, if I use MagSafe to power the machine, that's fine.....but then I will have to plug in the LG Thunderbolt 3 monitor separately to it, which will take up one of the three Thunderbolt/USB-C ports, leaving me with only two to use in addition.   The LG monitor uses ONLY the Thunderbolt 3/USB connection;  it has no other way of connecting it to any computer.   I often plug in two external drives simultaneously while transferring files from one to the other.   With my current setup I have the LG monitor plugged into one of the 2018 15" MBP's four Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports, leaving me with three free to use, and there have been times when I've needed to use all three at the same time.     In addition, I'll also have to plug in both the monitor and the computer separately to the power source, a surge protector......    Oh, well, first-world problems, eh?     

As for the HDMI port, I've never used one and don't anticipate any need to do so in the future, so that will be wasted on me, but I do understand that many people indeed DO need them and it will valuable to them to once again have that available on their mobile computer, especially for business and education related activities.


----------



## Cmaier

Clix Pix said:


> Right, if I use MagSafe to power the machine, that's fine.....but then I will have to plug in the LG Thunderbolt 3 monitor separately to it, which will take up one of the three Thunderbolt/USB-C ports, leaving me with only two to use in addition.   The LG monitor uses ONLY the Thunderbolt 3/USB connection;  it has no other way of connecting it to any computer.   I often plug in two external drives simultaneously while transferring files from one to the other.   With my current setup I have the LG monitor plugged into one of the 2018 15" MBP's four Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports, leaving me with three free to use, and there have been times when I've needed to use all three at the same time.     In addition, I'll also have to plug in both the monitor and the computer separately to the power source, a surge protector......    Oh, well, first-world problems, eh?
> 
> As for the HDMI port, I've never used one and don't anticipate any need to do so in the future, so that will be wasted on me, but I do understand that many people indeed DO need them and it will valuable to them to once again have that available on their mobile computer, especially for business and education related activities.



Yep, can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to deal with connecting to projectors at places where I don’t control the setup, and it’s always a little janky dealing with the USB-C-to-HDMI adapters (I have 3 different ones. Typically I find that one of the three works, but it’s not always the same one).  I’ll probably use that port a couple times a year.  But the number of times I’ve used more than 2 USB-C ports since 2016 is probably zero.  Maybe one.  And one of those is always powering the computer.  So I don’t mind losing the port.


----------



## Hrafn

DT said:


> JFC, I leave for a few days, forget to lock up and look what happens - the place fills up with riffraff ...



I was under strict orders.


----------



## Hrafn

DT said:


> I was a little surprised they didn't dump the 14" internals into a Mini case and call it a day (per the previous M1 designs), but the M1P/M1M (what's the currently accepted short form?), may require a little more engineering - or - there's something else on deck that's a little more-than-a-Mini.
> 
> That said, I'm tempted to just get a 14",  32GB / 1TB with the M1Max, which would pretty much be my Mini spec.  When I got my Mini the equivalent notebook in terms of CPU/RAM was about $900-1000 more, but that would've had a substantially better GPU, and of course, been fully mobile (vs. easily portable ).



They sucked me in with this setup.  Now I have the apple card and monthly payments.  Somehow, it's your fault.


----------



## Deleted member 221

DT said:


> was a little surprised they didn't dump the 14" internals into a Mini case and call it a day (per the previous M1 designs), but the M1P/M1M (what's the currently accepted short form?), may require a little more engineering - or - there's something else on deck that's a little more-than-a-Mini.




That's what I'm still hoping for / waiting on.
I already have a large external monitor and sound and peripherals, etc
I'm just not a laptop guy anymore and fully sealed up iMacs do nothing for me.

Mac mini pro please!


----------



## DT

Hrafn said:


> I was under strict orders.




I will assume you've been compromised ...


----------



## DT

Hrafn said:


> They sucked me in with this setup.  Now I have the apple card and monthly payments.  Somehow, it's your fault.




Sweet, what did you order?  I'm still working my way through this thread, slowly, took an extra day off so things are in __low__speed__ today


----------



## DT

turbineseaplane said:


> That's what I'm still hoping for / waiting on.
> I already have a large external monitor and sound and peripherals, etc
> I'm just not a laptop guy anymore and fully sealed up iMacs do nothing for me.
> 
> Mac mini pro please!




Yeah, when I transitioned from my machine being a MBP to a Mini, it was because the laptop spent 98% of its last year "docked", i.e., on the deck, closed, with external displays/KB/mouse.  I also kind of wanted to not be able to take work with me.  Leave the desk, work is done.  Plus, like I mentioned, at the time, the i7 Mini seem to have better sustained (CPU) performance and paying extra for capabilities I never used seemed silly.

I think a Mini is still my preference. I occasionally like to write away from the desk, but I can use of our M1 laptops, or even the IPP (and maybe I'll finally get a KB for it).


----------



## Hrafn

DT said:


> Sweet, what did you order?  I'm still working my way through this thread, slowly, took an extra day off so things are in __low__speed__ today



The top Pro chip, 32 gig, 1 tb 14".  I couldn't justify getting the Max just for 64 gigs.  It got too expensive.


----------



## Cmaier

Hrafn said:


> The top Pro chip, 32 gig, 1 tb 14".  I couldn't justify getting the Max just for 64 gigs.  It got too expensive.



I went for the 16” loaded, except 4tb and not 8tb. Been waiting for this machine for a long time.


----------



## DT

floridakilos said:


> I get secondhand embarrassment whenever I see her comments.




MBP color ... it's serious ...


----------



## tobefirst

"It has that stealthy look and very noticeable."

That doesn't make any sense at all.


----------



## leman

leman said:


> Apple seems to hav some issues with the order volume right now. I messed up too  I ordered a 16", then realized that I didn't use educational discount. So I ordered another one with the intent to cancel the first order. Apparently the two M1 Max put my credit card over it's limit. The first payment went through (and has been canceled), the second didn't go through. I have tried three other credit cards, and every time Apple says "authorization denied". The hotline is completely swamped so I can't reach anyone. I think I'm screwed. By the time this gets figured out my shipping time will be January...




In the end I canceled and ordered with the university supplier. If I am already going to wait for more than a month, I might as well get three year warranty for free…


----------



## Cmaier

tobefirst said:


> "It has that stealthy look and very noticeable."
> 
> That doesn't make any sense at all.




That’s the least confusing thing she’s every said.

Sometimes I think she’s a poorly-trained AI.


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> MBP color ... it's serious ...




WHY DOES IT NOT COME IN PEA SOUP GREEN?


----------



## Renzatic

tobefirst said:


> "It has that stealthy look and very noticeable."
> 
> That doesn't make any sense at all.




That she's praising an Apple mouse is proof enough she's not firing off on all cylinders.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> That she's praising an Apple mouse is proof enough she's not firing off on all cylinders.



I’m surprised she hasn’t yet explained how excited she is by the new $19 cleaning cloth.


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> I’m surprised she hasn’t yet explained how excited she is by the new $19 cleaning cloth.




Probably because it doesn't match her space grey Macbook. We'll have to wait for her to return it for the silver Mac before she'll offer up her opinion.


----------



## Renzatic

I just looked up the Polishing Cloth on the Apple store.

...it's nice knowing it's compatible with every iPhone all the way back to the 1st generation.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> I just looked up the Polishing Cloth on the Apple store.
> 
> ...it's nice knowing it's compatible with every iPhone all the way back to the 1st generation.




Hail, it's even compatible with an iPod shuffle...    and the cloth only costs $19 instead of $29.

Can probably buy a shuffle over on eBay for less than $19 on the average broke Tuesday, no?

tbh I didn't realize one should polish one's shuffles.  Weren't they all either polycarbonate white or anodized aluminum?   Now if I were over on MR I'd be waiting for someone who's OCD about fingerprints to chime in that they still polish their vintage white USB-stick-type shuffles.


----------



## Renzatic

lizkat said:


> Now if I were over on MR I'd be waiting for someone who's OCD about fingerprints to chime in that they still polish their vintage white USB-stick-type shuffles.




I can understand why they'd feel the need to do that. You know that finger smoo slows down the bus speed transfer rate, and can clog up the antennas on your phone, right?


----------



## Hrafn

Renzatic said:


> I can understand why they'd feel the need to do that. You know that finger smoo slows down the bus speed transfer rate, and can clog up the antennas on your phone, right?



I am sad that I have read "finger smoo"  I'll have to use it somewhere.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> I can understand why they'd feel the need to do that. You know that finger smoo slows down the bus speed transfer rate, and can clog up the antennas on your phone, right?




Hail I thought that was the effortlessly applied salt and oil from the potato chips.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> WHY DOES IT NOT COME IN PEA SOUP GREEN?




Ah yes, the color of the green Ipod mini...     I think I named mine Lentil Soup.


----------



## Renzatic

lizkat said:


> Ah yes, the color of the green Ipod mini...     I think I named mine Lentil Soup.




Asparagus yellow is also an acceptable color for a Mac.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> Asparagus yellow is also an acceptable color for a Mac.




No no, the only yellow that's right is the XR yellow.   Sunflower.   I will die loving the moment I unboxed it.

I really liked the tangerine clamshell iBook from 1999 though.   Orange is da bomb.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> I’m surprised she hasn’t yet explained how excited she is by the new $19 cleaning cloth.



Probably bought 20 of them and will return all but one.


----------



## Renzatic

lizkat said:


> No no, the only yellow that's right is the XR yellow.   Sunflower.   I will die loving the moment I unboxed it.
> 
> I really liked the tangerine clamshell iBook from 1999 though.   Orange is da bomb.




If I'm really truly honest and not sarcastic about it, I prefer my electronics to be either black, white, or various shades of grey.

I'm a very boring person.

Though before this recent MBP event, I was deeply considering getting one of System 76's desktops. I like the wood grain finish they're all sporting.





__





						System76 - Linux Laptops, Desktops, and Servers
					

System76 computers empower the world's curious and capable makers of tomorrow




					system76.com


----------



## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> If I'm really truly honest and not sarcastic about it, I prefer my electronics to be either black, white, or various shades of grey.
> 
> I'm a very boring person.



All roads lead to Rome. I prefer my electronics like that because I’m _not_ a very boring person.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> If I'm really truly honest and not sarcastic about it, I prefer my electronics to be either black, white, or various shades of grey.




I became a fan of space gray for the more recent Apple notebooks.  Loved the 2008 black one and  I didn't mind the white polycarbonate iBooks either.  

For the iPads and mini's I've  stuck with space gray so far.   For re-ups I have been looking at a purple iPad mini and a blue iPad Air...

For the iPod touch, well I got one with a white bezel once, and found it distracting when watching videos.  Same with a silver 128GB iPhone SE that I bought...  but I was shopping at Apple refurb and wanted that size,  so I was stuck with whatever they were selling.

On colors of iPhones and iPods I've been all over the map,  which is silly because half the time I end up using a case that's "something else".   But for the XR I use a clear case, love that yellow. 

I used to daydream about sending a white iBook out to Colorware to make it sunflower yellow.  I really love winter but I get very tired of the gray between November and January.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> If I'm really truly honest and not sarcastic about it, I prefer my electronics to be either black, white, or various shades of grey.
> 
> I'm a very boring person.
> 
> Though before this recent MBP event, I was deeply considering getting one of System 76's desktops. I like the wood grain finish they're all sporting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> System76 - Linux Laptops, Desktops, and Servers
> 
> 
> System76 computers empower the world's curious and capable makers of tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> system76.com




Wow that Launch keyboard with the rainbow backlighting I saw on their accessory suggestions is wild,  I didn't even know there was such a thing.


----------



## Renzatic

lizkat said:


> Wow that Launch keyboard with the rainbow backlighting I saw on their accessory suggestions is wild,  I didn't even know there was such a thing.




God yeah. Some companies have gotten obnoxious with their PC bling over the last few years. The Launch is pretty tame in comparison to some of the crazy keyboards out there.


----------



## Joe

$19 for a cleaning cloth lol

I can flex with my Apple cleaning cloth now


----------



## lizkat

JagRunner said:


> $19 for a cleaning cloth lol
> 
> I can flex with my Apple cleaning cloth now




If enough idiots buy a $19 cleaning cloth,  maybe Apple drops the price of assorted f'g dongles and cables for their prior line of MacBook Pros.


----------



## Renzatic

lizkat said:


> I used to daydream about sending a white iBook out to Colorware to make it sunflower yellow. I really love winter but I get very tired of the gray between November and January.




You don't need to send your Macs off to get them colored up. You can hit up a company like DBrand for skin kits.

If I were to do that, I'd get the wood skin on the outside of the lid.


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> You don't need to send your Macs off to get them colored up. You can hit up a company like DBrand for skin kits.
> 
> If I were to do that, I'd get the wood skin on the outside of the lid.




I just let mine run around the house bare nekkid any more.


----------



## Renzatic

JagRunner said:


> $19 for a cleaning cloth lol
> 
> I can flex with my Apple cleaning cloth now




Dude! You must be rich!


----------



## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> Dude! You must be rich!



Obviously not anymore!


----------



## Joe

Renzatic said:


> Dude! You must be rich!




The cleaning cloth is gonna wipe me out


----------



## ronntaylor

That POS $18 cloth is now sold out till at least late November! JFC


----------



## Renzatic

Here I was thinking I was BIG SPENDA going all out to buy a pack of 8 microfiber cloths for $7. Now I'm learning I ain't nothing but a scrub.


----------



## Joe

ronntaylor said:


> That POS $18 cloth is now sold out till at least late November! JFC




TheYayAreaLiving bought them all so she can see which one she likes best and return the others.


----------



## Deleted member 221

ronntaylor said:


> That POS $18 cloth is now sold out till at least late November! JFC




Sometimes I wonder if Apple is starting to just see what they can get away with and to what degree.


----------



## Renzatic

turbineseaplane said:


> Sometimes I wonder if Apple is starting to just see what they can get away with and to what degree.




They did that with their $1000 monitor stand.


----------



## Hrafn

Renzatic said:


> They did that with their $1000 monitor stand.



Or, $700 wheels.


----------



## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> They did that with their $1000 monitor stand.



And the $699 Mac Pro Wheels Kit. But those wheels at least fit an AirTag* each.

* Sold separately


----------



## Deleted member 221

Renzatic said:


> They did that with their $1000 monitor stand.




Yup!  

And it didn't even take that long before the Apple podcaster ecosystem switched over to things like: "well.. it IS a pretty nice stand with AMAZING build quality"...

The reality is that Apple could go incredibly up market at this point and still find massive amounts of buyers.
Obviously lose some volume, but they could totally do it -- perhaps even with a new entire line of "elite" products.

I wouldn't rule it out.


----------



## Jorbanead

zakarhino said:


> They deleted my reply calling your suspension too harsh...



Same for me too. Oh well.


DT said:


> I was a little surprised they didn't dump the 14" internals into a Mini case and call it a day (per the previous M1 designs), but the M1P/M1M (what's the currently accepted short form?), may require a little more engineering - or - there's something else on deck that's a little more-than-a-Mini.



Yeah, I am a bit bummed as I _really_ want an M1 Max Mac mini (what is with these names?) but I guess we'll just have to wait a bit longer.


----------



## Cmaier

Jorbanead said:


> Same for me too. Oh well.
> 
> Yeah, I am a bit bummed as I _really_ want an M1 Max Mac mini (what is with these names?) but I guess we'll just have to wait a bit longer.




Welcome!

This is where the fun’s at.


----------



## Runs For Fun

What will I ever do‽ 









						Shipping times for Apple’s $19 Polishing Cloth slip to late November [Updated]
					

Delays may drive people to buy inferior third-party polishing products.




					arstechnica.com


----------



## Yoused

Was just looking at the hype on Apple and saw "*up to 20 ProRes 4K streams*". My question is, what does one do with twenty video streams? Do you hook the notebook up to nineteen external 4K monitors so that a dozen of your friends can watch whatever things they prefer? And do those video streams also have embedded 24-bit audio? I mean it sounds like the great and powerful 'book (where you need an AirTag to keep track of where your cursor went if you lose it in the notch), but some of this capability sounds way excess.


----------



## Entropy

Yoused said:


> Was just looking at the hype on Apple and saw "*up to 20 ProRes 4K streams*". My question is, what does one do with twenty video streams? Do you hook the notebook up to nineteen external 4K monitors so that a dozen of your friends can watch whatever things they prefer? And do those video streams also have embedded 24-bit audio? I mean it sounds like the great and powerful 'book (where you need an AirTag to keep track of where your cursor went if you lose it in the notch), but some of this capability sounds way excess.



Look at it from the bright side - to capitalize on this they have to release stand alone monitors!


----------



## DT

Yoused said:


> My question is, what does one do with twenty video streams?




Talk to a pro videographer, anyone involved in post-production, etc., a friend of mine (in that profession) is always giddy over the number of concurrent streams (and that has nothing to do with the number of physical displays).


----------



## Renzatic

Runs For Fun said:


> What will I ever do‽
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shipping times for Apple’s $19 Polishing Cloth slip to late November [Updated]
> 
> 
> Delays may drive people to buy inferior third-party polishing products.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arstechnica.com




This post I came across in the comments section is dead on.



> "The polishing cloths are made from a special attenuated Nappa nanofiber. Apple R&D has perfected the polarization of each nano filament into a plane of alternating wave forms, what we're calling Schrodinger Adhesors. And the results are incredible: with a single wipe you can't tell if 57% of the visible surface matter is there or not. With two wipes this goes up to an incredible 84%. There has never been a more effective way to uncertainly eliminate the appearance of visible surface matter before."


----------



## DT

Pumbaa said:


> Can’t imagine the SD slot making a comeback. Wouldn’t mind being wrong about that, though.


----------



## BigMcGuire

If my work didn't require the use of Windows, I'd be a lot more thrilled about these offerings. I know several people (even a Windows die hard) who will be getting these though. I had an M1 MBP for awhile but because I need to use Windows with parallels, just ended up with a 2020 MBP 13' with an eGPU. Hopefully by the time this kicks the bucket, I'll be able to use Windows 11 with our specific work software easier. 

I love the redesigned look and of course, MagSafe has to return. It's going to be a long wait for me. lol.


----------



## Cmaier

BigMcGuire said:


> If my work didn't require the use of Windows, I'd be a lot more thrilled about these offerings. I know several people (even a Windows die hard) who will be getting these though. I had an M1 MBP for awhile but because I need to use Windows with parallels, just ended up with a 2020 MBP 13' with an eGPU. Hopefully by the time this kicks the bucket, I'll be able to use Windows 11 with our specific work software easier.
> 
> I love the redesigned look and of course, MagSafe has to return. It's going to be a long wait for me. lol.




My work also requires the use of Windows. But I don’t use Windows    Of course, that makes me my own I.T. department, but it’s worth it


----------



## BigMcGuire

Cmaier said:


> My work also requires the use of Windows. But I don’t use Windows    Of course, that makes me my own I.T. department, but it’s worth it



I got Visual Studio 2019 to work on Arm Windows but our 64bit Windows application runs like a snail on Arm Windows - and I can't get it to run outside of VS 2019. I'll have to give it another try here soon. But my wallet/bank won't let me purchase a new MBP just yet. lol.

Very worth it I'm sure.


----------



## Yoused

BigMcGuire said:


> … ended up with a 2020 MBP 13' with …




Where do you keep that, in a 2-car garage, sideways?


----------



## BigMcGuire

Yoused said:


> Where do you keep that, in a 2-car garage, sideways?



Used to have a 2019 15' MBP but work wanted that back so I begged for a MBP and got a 13' 2020 MBP refurbished. (32GB/2TB) Can't complain !  I run parallels with Windows 11 for things I need to do in Windows and it works really well with my Sonnet eGPU (RX 580).


----------



## DT

I think we have this problem ... well, kind of the other way around ..


----------



## Runs For Fun

Maybe @Cmaier would know this, but what is the technical limitation on the RAM with the M1s? I mean we have PC motherboards that support 128GB+. Is this some kind of limitation with SoCs?


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> Maybe @Cmaier would know this, but what is the technical limitation on the RAM with the M1s? I mean we have PC motherboards that support 128GB+. Is this some kind of limitation with SoCs?




Primarily the limit is the available density of DRAM - it would be difficult to fit more in a reasonable package.  (And, at least in the MBPs, apple is packaging the RAM in the same package as the SoC, which is not a technical requirement but which does improve performance somewhat [given a given cache size] due to decreased latency).

Now, the next part is a guess.  I *assume* that Apple has decided that these two chips will never be used with more RAM, or in situations where there is slotted RAM, and as a result Apple has only provided an address bus wide  enough to work with 64GB.  That would also mean that things like the translation lookaside buffer (for virtual memory) and a few other structures also are designed to not handle more than 64GB.  

That said, it would likely not be very difficult for Apple to create an “Ultra“ version of the SoC that can handle more memory.  After all, doubling the size of the RAM to 128GB would require only one more address bit.  But unless they plan on using the Pro or Max in iMacs with more than 64GB, unlikely that they included that in those chips. 

I would imagine we will see two more chips for the Mac Pro (and maybe iMac Pro):

iMac Ultra - 20 CPU cores, 64 GPU cores, 64 GB RAM
iMac Ultra Duo - 40 CPU cores, 128 GPU cores, 128 GB RAM


----------



## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> "The polishing cloths are made from a special attenuated Nappa nanofiber. Apple R&D has perfected the polarization of each nano filament into a plane of alternating wave forms, what we're calling Schrodinger Adhesors. And the results are incredible: with a single wipe you can't tell if 57% of the visible surface matter is there or not. With two wipes this goes up to an incredible 84%. There has never been a more effective way to uncertainly eliminate the appearance of visible surface matter before."



Now I want one for my Nintendo Switch.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Great explanation. Thanks @Cmaier 


Cmaier said:


> iMac Ultra - 20 CPU cores, 64 GPU cores, 64 GB RAM
> iMac Ultra Duo - 40 CPU cores, 128 GPU cores, 128 GB RAM



OMG yes please


----------



## Pumbaa

Runs For Fun said:


> OMG yes please



Imagine the pricing!


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> Great explanation. Thanks @Cmaier
> 
> OMG yes please



now that i think about, one other minor wrinkle is cache. If you know you are going to have 128GB RAM, you may want to increase the size of the system level cache, and maybe the L2 caches, as well, but whether or not that is needed requires a bunch of analysis of the specific compute scenarios that the designer is interested in.  In general, though, if you have 128GB of RAM, the idea is that the user wants to actually use all that RAM at once - the user is doing something RAM-intensive - so the likelihood of cache misses may go up if you don't increase the size of the caches.


----------



## DT

You know, I was kind of half expecting the M1 MBP 13" to get rebranded as just a Macbook, i.e., a 13" Macbook Air, a 13" Macbook, and 14/16" Macbook Pros.

It's definitely in sort of a weird place in performance, features and price.  I'm sure the MBA has been way more popular, and now anyone looking for a "pro level" machine will go with the entry level 14".  Plus the 13" has the - now legacy - Touch Bar, I'm sure they'd like to forget about.  The little G has a 16GB M1 MBP and just loves it, she even says she kind of digs on the Touch Bar, but to be honest, she would've probably been just as happy with an Air spec'ed the same way - she says her fans never kick on anyway ...

I couldn't remember the pricing, so look at Apple.com and a 13" MBP with a 16/512 config is only $300 cheaper than the entry level 14" - or it's $300 more in the most minimal config vs. an Air (the latter being the 7+8 core config).


----------



## Cmaier

DT said:


> You know, I was kind of half expecting the M1 MBP 13" to get rebranded as just a Macbook, i.e., a 13" Macbook Air, a 13" Macbook, and 14/16" Macbook Pros.
> 
> It's definitely in sort of a weird place in performance, features and price.  I'm sure the MBA has been way more popular, and now anyone looking for a "pro level" machine will go with the entry level 14".  Plus the 13" has the - now legacy - Touch Bar, I'm sure they'd like to forget about.  The little G has a 16GB M1 MBP and just loves it, she even says she kind of digs on the Touch Bar, but to be honest, she would've probably been just as happy with an Air spec'ed the same way - she says her fans never kick on anyway ...
> 
> I couldn't remember the pricing, so look at Apple.com and a 13" MBP with a 16/512 config is only $300 cheaper than the entry level 14" - or it's $300 more in the most minimal config vs. an Air (the latter being the 7+8 core config).




I’m sure they will phase out the M1 13” MBP in a year or so. They will replace it with an M2 14” when the higher-end MBP’s get M2 Pro/Max. (Or maybe the MBP next time has M1 Pro on the low end, and M2 Pro/Max on the high end, and they use M2 only in the MBA).


----------



## DT

Sure, it's a bit of a transition period, but it's definitely the odd-man-out at the moment.  The only reason I went with it over the MBA was availability, discount (it was another $150 making it the same price as the equivalent MBA), and to be totally honest, I kind of wanted to knock around with the Touch Bar 

Well, I think the little G also thought it was cool she had the "pro" model vs. Mom's regular ol' (M1) Macbook Air


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> I’m sure they will phase out the M1 13” MBP in a year or so. They will replace it with an M2 14” when the higher-end MBP’s get M2 Pro/Max. (Or maybe the MBP next time has M1 Pro on the low end, and M2 Pro/Max on the high end, and they use M2 only in the MBA).




I imagine we won't see the 13" MBP for much longer. With the 14" Pro now in play, being roughly the same size and shape as the 13", and the Air being 99.9% as capable, it doesn't really make sense to keep it around.


----------



## DT

Renzatic said:


> I imagine we won't see the 13" MBP for much longer. With the 14" Pro now in play, being roughly the same size and shape as the 13", and the Air being 99.9% as capable, it doesn't really make sense to keep it around.




Exactly, that was my ruminations above, it's in a "Why are you here ...?" position right now.  MBA is lighter, quieter, cheaper / the MBP 14" is a good bit quicker, again, that's __now__, I get the reason it existed during the initial M1 rollout.


Plus, like I said, it has the taint of the Touch Bar


----------



## Jorbanead

Cmaier said:


> iMac Ultra - 20 CPU cores, 64 GPU cores, 64 GB RAM
> iMac Ultra Duo - 40 CPU cores, 128 GPU cores, 128 GB RAM



I don’t mind those names actually. I mean I still prefer M1X style naming, but since we’re using Pro/Max already, ultra seems a good fit. And Ultra Duo is easy to understand.


----------



## Cmaier

Jorbanead said:


> I don’t mind those names actually. I mean I still prefer M1X style naming, but since we’re using Pro/Max already, ultra seems a good fit. And Ultra Duo is easy to understand.




Then they’ll probably go with M1 Quadramax and M1 Octastorm.


----------



## Yoused

I am anxiously waiting for them to get to M5





I mean, it has such cool blinken lights and other visual effects. After all, it is _The Ultimate Computer_.


----------



## DT

Automatic love for any TOS reference, and a particularly great episode. 

I guess in that context, Intel is Captain Dunsel


----------



## SuperMatt

The new MBP keyboards are black between the keys, whereas prior models had the color of the case between the keys. This looks like it would be easier to take the keyboard out for repairs now. I recall the Pismo PowerBooks, you could lift the keyboard and access the internals directly. It was very convenient. This design reminds me of that.

(photo from Apple Insider)


----------



## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> The new MBP keyboards are black between the keys, whereas prior models had the color of the case between the keys. This looks like it would be easier to take the keyboard out for repairs now. I recall the Pismo PowerBooks, you could lift the keyboard and access the internals directly. It was very convenient. This design reminds me of that.
> 
> (photo from Apple Insider)
> View attachment 9334



I think I read that it’s the same mechanically - they just anodized the metal to be black.


----------



## Agent47

Any thoughts on the notch? Imo its the only downside.
Its not that I oppose the notch in general; its just its a bit too wide, in a way that the taskbar looks unnecessarily inflated.
Its not a show stopper in any way, still it bugs me coz otherwise its a pretty much flawless computer. Very much reminiscent of the Aluminium Powerbooks, just even better (faster, quieter, longer battery life).

Ah, and the the design language of Snow Leopard is of course second to none...


----------



## Deleted member 215

I don't like the notch at all. The more images I see of it, the more I dislike it and see it as a big distraction. I don't like the taller, interrupted menu bar either. The M1 iMac looks so much cleaner by comparison.


----------



## SuperMatt

TBL said:


> I don't like the notch at all. The more images I see of it, the more I dislike it and see it as a big distraction. I don't like the taller, interrupted menu bar either. The M1 iMac looks so much cleaner by comparison.



I recently setup 2 M1 iMacs. The screens look fantastic, and the machines are really fast. Also, with Parallels, I was able to install Windows 11, and then install an old version of WordPerfect (x86) which runs nicely for the person who didn’t want to leave WordPerfect behind....


----------



## User.45

Agent47 said:


> Any thoughts on the notch? Imo its the only downside.
> Its not that I oppose the notch in general; its just its a bit too wide, in a way that the taskbar looks unnecessarily inflated.
> Its not a show stopper in any way, still it bugs me coz otherwise its a pretty much flawless computer. Very much reminiscent of the Aluminium Powerbooks, just even better (faster, quieter, longer battery life).
> 
> Ah, and the the design language of Snow Leopard is of course second to none...





TBL said:


> I don't like the notch at all. The more images I see of it, the more I dislike it and see it as a big distraction. I don't like the taller, interrupted menu bar either. The M1 iMac looks so much cleaner by comparison.



I'm not a fan of the idea but it's not as terrible as you make it out to be. So you either have a notch or a black bar. If you look at full screen mode, that's gonna be a black bar. Someone said that since the ratio is 16:10 it's not gonna have any impact on 16:9 material.

I'm also sure you'd have an option to turn the notch to above-said black bar. I'm more curious about the mouse behavior at the notch. Is it gonna jump or is it gonna have a hidden space there?


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> I'm not a fan of the idea but it's not as terrible as you make it out to be. So you either have a notch or a black bar. If you look at full screen mode, that's gonna be a black bar. Someone said that since the ratio is 16:10 it's not gonna have any impact on 16:9 material.
> 
> I'm also sure you'd have an option to turn the notch to above-said black bar. I'm more curious about the mouse behavior at the notch. Is it gonna jump or is it gonna have a hidden space there?




Hidden space. The notch is active area, so the mouse pointer disappears there.


----------



## User.45

The more I'm looking at the M1Max specs the more I wonder, what do you folks need it for beyond video/photo editing. It seems that these have disproportionately more GPU power than CPU.


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> The more I'm looking at the M1Max specs the more I wonder, what do you folks need it for beyond video/photo editing. It seems that these have disproportionately more GPU power than CPU.




I would say it’s the opposite.  The CPU is faster than any desktop mac other than a pro with 16 or more cores, including 12-core Mac Pros.

The GPU is nice, but not “high end desktop GPU”-nice.  

I’ll be using it for Xcode, photo editing, Illustrator, electronics simulations, Office, video transcoding, etc.


----------



## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> The GPU is nice, but not “high end desktop GPU”-nice.



…but is there anything out there that it can be used for? 

Only half-joking.


----------



## Cmaier

Pumbaa said:


> …but is there anything out there that it can be used for?
> 
> Only half-joking.




Well it will certainly be useful in photo- or video- editing apps. Anything that uses metal for compute or rendering.  It’s not always about gaming.


----------



## Agent47

Cmaier said:


> The GPU is nice, but not “high end desktop GPU”-nice.
> 
> I’ll be using it for Xcode, photo editing, Illustrator, electronics simulations, Office, video transcoding, etc.



Me too.
I‘ll port my CUDA-based genetic algorithm over to Metal. The thing is heavily memory-bandwidth and memory limited. Curious on how it is going to perform on ASi/Metal


----------



## Entropy

P_X said:


> The more I'm looking at the M1Max specs the more I wonder, what do you folks need it for beyond video/photo editing. It seems that these have disproportionately more GPU power than CPU.



To some extent, people *need* to buy headroom, since the machines aren't upgradeable.
It then comes down to their predictions of the future, and how they approach hardware purchases. The professionals I know lean more towards "working with what they know", rather than "buying new toys", generalising broadly. Thus they would tend to go for something that will do the job, and then some, for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Well yeah the main difference between the M1 and these new Pro/Max chips is the GPU and video encoders but there’s also four more performance cores. Single core performance is the same. 

It’s definitely overkill for me, but I just got tired of a Zoom call or a long YouTube video overheating my Intel MBP.


----------



## Entropy

Agent47 said:


> Me too.
> I‘ll port my CUDA-based genetic algorithm over to Metal. The thing is heavily memory-bandwidth and memory limited. Curious on how it is going to perform on ASi/Metal



As I wrote in another place, in my field quite a few "GPU-accelerated" applications were more accurately described as "memory bandwidth accelerated". Not surprised that bio-informatics could have a few of those as well. The memory subsystem of the M1PM seems remarkably robust.


----------



## Pumbaa

Agent47 said:


> Me too.
> I‘ll port my CUDA-based genetic algorithm over to Metal. The thing is heavily memory-bandwidth and memory limited. Curious on how it is going to perform on ASi/Metal



I’d love to see a thread about that!


----------



## Agent47

Pumbaa said:


> I’d love to see a thread about that!



Hm. Maybe when the time is ripe. Development (using Qt and CUDA on Linux) took about 2 to 3 years; so basically I‘ll have to do a re-write. Plus I am very much time restrained.

What‘s more, I believe what I got there is very advanced. Its based off the SASEGASA, implemented 100 % in CUDA, albeit sprinkled with some novel ideas (and a couple still waiting for assessment). 
Anyway, I am crazy excited about what this thing can do (and its inner workings)…

Don‘t want to reveal too much for now… thanks for your interest


----------



## User.45

Cmaier said:


> I would say it’s the opposite.  The CPU is faster than any desktop mac other than a pro with 16 or more cores, including 12-core Mac Pros.
> 
> The GPU is nice, but not “high end desktop GPU”-nice.
> 
> I’ll be using it for Xcode, photo editing, Illustrator, electronics simulations, Office, video transcoding, etc.



What I meant is that as you upgrade from M1Pro to M1Max seems to add disproportionately more GPU over CPU power. (10/16 to 10/24 or 10/32). 



Agent47 said:


> Me too.
> I‘ll port my CUDA-based genetic algorithm over to Metal. The thing is heavily memory-bandwidth and memory limited. Curious on how it is going to perform on ASi/Metal



I'd love to see the M1s replacing CUDA, but I doubt we're anywhere near. I'd also be curious what performance differential could be expected with that. 



Entropy said:


> To some extent, people *need* to buy headroom, since the machines aren't upgradeable.
> It then comes down to their predictions of the future, and how they approach hardware purchases. The professionals I know lean more towards "working with what they know", rather than "buying new toys", generalising broadly. Thus they would tend to go for something that will do the job, and then some, for the foreseeable future.



But the future has been pretty predictable in the past decade. Except for the wattage/battery life and the non-existent GPU, Macs have been adequately powered for office-based work for the past at least 5 years. 

Where I always needed extra power were usually CUDA based stuff, so if Apple doesn't create a CUDA alternative, I'd still have to stick with a desktop with a  GTX card.


----------



## Cmaier

P_X said:


> What I meant is that as you upgrade from M1Pro to M1Max seems to add disproportionately more GPU over CPU power. (10/16 to 10/24 or 10/32).
> 
> 
> I'd love to see the M1s replacing CUDA, but I doubt we're anywhere near. I'd also be curious what performance differential could be expected with that.
> 
> 
> But the future has been pretty predictable in the past decade. Except for the wattage/battery life and the non-existent GPU, Macs have been adequately powered for office-based work for the past at least 5 years.
> 
> Where I always needed extra power were usually CUDA based stuff, so if Apple doesn't create a CUDA alternative, I'd still have to stick with a desktop with a  GTX card.



Ah, yes, definitely the main improvement from Pro to Max is GPU. Of course, memory bandwidth as well. I believe the max has double the SLC of the pro? If so, that will improve CPU performance for some tasks, even if it doesn’t show up in benchmarks (which typically do not focus on that sort of memory access pattern.)


----------



## Renzatic

Cmaier said:


> I would say it’s the opposite.  The CPU is faster than any desktop mac other than a pro with 16 or more cores, including 12-core Mac Pros.
> 
> The GPU is nice, but not “high end desktop GPU”-nice.
> 
> I’ll be using it for Xcode, photo editing, Illustrator, electronics simulations, Office, video transcoding, etc.




It's going to toe to toe with GTX 3080M's from what I hear. While the mobile cards aren't as fast as their desktop counterparts, they're still pretty stout performers.


----------



## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> It's going to toe to toe with GTX 3080M's from what I hear. While the mobile cards aren't as fast as their desktop counterparts, they're still pretty stout performers.




sure. My point was simply that, as far as CPU is concerned, MBP actually *does* beat almost any desktop. In GPU, that’s not the case (Apple will take care of that over the next few years worth of chip designs


----------



## Agent47

P_X said:


> I'd love to see the M1s replacing CUDA, but I doubt we're anywhere near. I'd also be curious what performance differential could be expected with that.



True. Which is why I said I‘m curious on the result. Thing is: GAs do not work like Machine Learning algos; they do not usually access memory contiguously.
CUDA accesses memory in 32 bit (if memory serves me) chunks. When you just need one bit of this chunk, CUDA still loads all 32 bits.
So non-coalesced memory access is all but optimal; yet GAs are still much faster due to massive parallelism (plus general superior memory throughput).

Therefore, in theory, due to this 32 bit loading thing absent, memory access using the M1 architecture should be much faster in my Apps’ particular case.
If my assumptions prove to be halfway true I should see a significant jump in performance (which is, I believe, already pretty good)

Btw O/T: how did you guys receive the „Vaccinated“ badge?


----------



## Cmaier

Agent47 said:


> True. Which is why I said I‘m curious on the result. Thing is: GAs do not work like Machine Learning algos; they do not usually access memory contiguously.
> CUDA accesses memory in 32 bit (if memory serves me) chunks. When you just need one bit of this chunk, CUDA still loads all 32 bits.
> So non-coalesced memory access is all but optimal; yet GAs are still much faster due to massive parallelism (plus general superior memory throughput).
> 
> Therefore, in theory, due to this 32 bit loading thing absent memory access using the M1 architecture should be much faster in my Apps’ particular case.
> If my assumptions prove to be halfway true I should see a significant jump in performance (which is, I believe, already pretty good)
> 
> Btw O/T: how did you guys receive the „Vaccinated“ badge?




“Vaccinated” is in the “preferences” part of the profile editing screen.


----------



## DT

Agent47 said:


> Btw O/T: how did you guys receive the „Vaccinated“ badge?





Went down to Publix several months ago, got my first Moderna, went back about 30 days later, got the 2nd shot ... then it just showed up.


----------



## Pumbaa

Cmaier said:


> “Vaccinated” is in the “preferences” part of the profile editing screen.



That’s the workaround for anyone living in an area where 5G coverage is spotty.


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## Entropy

P_X said:


> But the future has been pretty predictable in the past decade. Except for the wattage/battery life and the non-existent GPU, Macs have been adequately powered for office-based work for the past at least 5 years.
> 
> Where I always needed extra power were usually CUDA based stuff, so if Apple doesn't create a CUDA alternative, I'd still have to stick with a desktop with a  GTX card.



What I meant about taking headroom for future needs was not for computer development (which is predictable) bút for uncertainty where ones professional needs might move - for instance will a photographer need to move ever more into video? If so, at what quality level, which customers, how will customer expectations evolve, how….better get 32GB RAM.  That kind of thing.


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## Hrafn

DT said:


> Went down to Publix several months ago, got my first Moderna, went back about 30 days later, got the 2nd shot ... then it just showed up.



Everyone knows you buy it on the black market from Florida.


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## User.45

Entropy said:


> What I meant about taking headroom for future needs was not for computer development (which is predictable) bút for uncertainty where ones professional needs might move - for instance will a photographer need to move ever more into video? If so, at what quality level, which customers, how will customer expectations evolve, how….better get 32GB RAM.  That kind of thing.



I get it, but the differential is easily $2K. 2-3 years down the line that's just a brand new machine which would have these capabilities for the cost of the differential. It's a major differential for personal computing. It's minute for an enterprise where this is <1% of the budget. Just saying. Most of us with corporate(-like) jobs are stuck with windows for work.:/


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## Cmaier

Cmaier said:


> I would imagine we will see two more chips for the Mac Pro (and maybe iMac Pro):
> 
> iMac Ultra - 20 CPU cores, 64 GPU cores, 64 GB RAM
> iMac Ultra Duo - 40 CPU cores, 128 GPU cores, 128 GB RAM




I was pretty close.


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## Renzatic

The most shocking thing about this event isn't the powerful new hardware on display, but how relatively affordable it all is.


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## leman

Very impressive interconnect performance, Studio looks like a great compact desktop workstation, pretty much an unprecedented product.

Love the display, but that price tag… ugh... I mean, I would pay (with some reluctance) around a thousand bucks for a nice display, but what they charge is just insane… not entirely unreasonable given the market, but still insane.


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## Colstan

leman said:


> Very impressive interconnect performance, Studio looks like a great compact desktop workstation, pretty much an unprecedented product.



This is the mid-range desktop that I've wanted since I got my first Mac mini in 2005. It was frustrating how the only product in that category, on the desktop side, was the iMac. I've always owned minis because I wanted flexibility with the display and didn't want the included mouse and keyboard. Now, I'll be buying my first Mac that isn't a mini, and I won't be forced to have the display integrated and have extra peripherals that I won't use. Also, the pricing for the Max version isn't as unreasonable as I had been concerned about.



leman said:


> Love the display, but that price tag… ugh... I mean, I would pay (with some reluctance) around a thousand bucks for a nice display, but what they charge is just insane… not entirely unreasonable given the market, but still insane.



Seeing how rumors were around $2500, it isn't as bad as it could have been. Given that the LG that it replaces was $1,300, the more advanced microphone, camera, and quality speakers make up for some of that. Plus, you get Apple's support and industrial design with it. Like the Mac Studio, this is the monitor I have wanted for years now.

Also, I would note that the 27-inch iMac is no more, leaving just the Mac Pro to transition. In all likelihood, the iMac Pro wasn't ready for release, so this is the current solution. Rumors put the iMac Pro and Mac Pro as 2023 products, so it makes sense. I also noticed that Apple still has the 6-core Intel Mac mini for sale on their online store, which I'm assuming is for those who still need x86 compatibility for legacy reasons.


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## jbailey

leman said:


> Very impressive interconnect performance, Studio looks like a great compact desktop workstation, pretty much an unprecedented product.
> 
> Love the display, but that price tag… ugh... I mean, I would pay (with some reluctance) around a thousand bucks for a nice display, but what they charge is just insane… not entirely unreasonable given the market, but still insane.



The crappy LG 27" 5K UltraFine is $1300 so it isn't surprising that the Apple version is $1600.


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