# What sane person moves to Florida?



## Chew Toy McCoy

The humidity. The hurricanes. The politics. The stupid. The conmen. The low IQ criminals. Exotic pet dumping ground that quickly becomes prolific invasive species. Architecturally it’s gaudy fused with tacky. At any given time half the population is on whatever hot new brain frying narcotic that is on the market.  It's like the country's largest trailer park and that might literally be true per capita.  

Who looks at all that and says “Yes, please!”?


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## Renzatic

Sounds like a lot of free entertainment to me. Now I wanna move there.


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## Edd

Lived in Jacksonville for a couple years as a young kid. Returned to Pensacola when I was 27 for 8 months, and that convinced me that Florida sucks. I went to Key West when I was 45 or so and that’s the best version of FLA I’ve seen, but it’s a big state.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

Edd said:


> Lived in Jacksonville for a couple years as a young kid. Returned to Pensacola when I was 27 for 8 months, and that convinced me that Florida sucks. I went to Key West when I was 45 or so and that’s the best version of FLA I’ve seen, but it’s a big state.




I've only visited the communist kingdom of Disney there.  So is it as bad as it appears to us outsiders, and what do you think the draw is for people who want to move there?

I understand the East Coast snowbird thing, but it seems like moving to Florida would be like moving to another planet which wouldn't be the case on the West Coast, say like moving from Seattle to San Diego.


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## Alli

My mother, my daughter, my uncle and aunt, my brother and sister-in-law, and both nephews live there. It’s a nice place to visit.


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## Edd

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I've only visited the communist kingdom of Disney there.  So is it as bad as it appears to us outsiders, and what do you think the draw is for people who want to move there?
> 
> I understand the East Coast snowbird thing, but it seems like moving to Florida would be like moving to another planet which wouldn't be the case on the West Coast, say like moving from Seattle to San Diego.



I think people hate winter more than summer, FLA is huge and historically cheap (not exactly these days) and that’s it. It’s a shitty version of paradise (location with tropical weather). Confession: looks like boaters heaven, which I have respect for.


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## Joe

You can find good and bad in any state.


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## januarydrive7

Honestly, all I ever think about when I think of Florida is Florida-Man.

Related:  Florida-man was raised by florida-mom, who contributed to this: https://www.foxnews.com/media/florida-mom-masks-contaminated-kids-rashes


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## Herdfan

No state income taxes and no mask mandates.


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## SuperMatt

Herdfan said:


> No state income taxes and no mask mandates even though their infection rate is half of masked up California's.



The 2nd part of that is a straight-up lie.

Per capita cases all-time for Florida: 17,046/100,000. California: 12,600/100,000. Deaths: Florida: 281/100,000. California: 184/100,000.


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## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> The 2nd part of that is a straight-up lie.
> 
> Per capita cases all-time for Florida: 17,046/100,000. California: 12,600/100,000. Deaths: Florida: 281/100,000. California: 184/100,000.




It most certainly is not a lie.  You changed the parameters.  I said infection rate, you are listing all-time totals.

As of today, FL has a 7-day rolling average of new case of 7.12/100K residents.  CA's 7-day rolling average of new cases is 16.3/100K residents.


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## Roller

Herdfan said:


> No state income taxes and no mask mandates even though their infection rate is half of masked up California's.



Concluding that Florida is better than California because current case numbers are lower makes no sense. Most of the South is experiencing a decrease, but that doesn't consider what came before. Florida's case rate adjusted for population over the entire pandemic is 10th in the nation; California's is 37th.

As for your inference that a lack of mask mandates makes Florida preferable, the evidence is irrefutable that masks are effective. And Florida's newly-appointed surgeon general, who is aligned with America's Frontline "Doctors," is anti-mask and questions the efficacy of vaccines. He is not someone who should be remotely involved in public health, let alone lead it.


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## SuperMatt

Herdfan said:


> It most certainly is not a lie.  You changed the parameters.  I said infection rate, you are listing all-time totals.
> 
> As of today, FL has a 7-day rolling average of new case of 7.12/100K residents.  CA's 7-day rolling average of new cases is 16.3/100K residents.



You didn’t say 7-day rolling average as of this week. You left it open, which means all-time. How can you accuse me of changing parameters when you listed no parameters at all?


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## Herdfan

Roller said:


> As for your inference that a lack of mask mandates makes Florida preferable, the evidence is irrefutable that masks are effective. And Florida's newly-appointed surgeon general, who is aligned with America's Frontline "Doctors," is anti-mask and questions the efficacy of vaccines. He is not someone who should be remotely involved in public health, let alone lead it.




They may be effective.  But a lack of mandates is a positive aspect to some, whether you like it or not.




SuperMatt said:


> You didn’t say current infections. You left it open, which means all-time.




But I did say rate.  But yes I probably should have put "current" before "rate."


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## SuperMatt

Roller said:


> Concluding that Florida is better than California because current case numbers are lower makes no sense. Most of the South is experiencing a decrease, but that doesn't consider what came before. Florida's case rate adjusted for population over the entire pandemic is 10th in the nation; California's is 37th.
> 
> As for your inference that a lack of mask mandates makes Florida preferable, the evidence is irrefutable that masks are effective. And Florida's newly-appointed surgeon general, who is aligned with America's Frontline "Doctors," is anti-mask and questions the efficacy of vaccines. He is not someone who should be remotely involved in public health, let alone lead it.



You will be hard pressed to find somebody whine more about masks… to the point of posting easily-debunked lies to try and prove they don’t work… despite the MOUNTAINS of evidence showing they do.


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## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> You will be hard pressed to find somebody whine more about masks… to the point of posting easily-debunked lies to try and prove they don’t work… despite the MOUNTAINS of evidence showing they do.




Please prove my current rate numbers wrong if you think I am lying.  

And I have NEVER said they don't work.  Only that I hate them, which is why I whine.


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## SuperMatt

Herdfan said:


> Please prove my current rate numbers wrong if you think I am lying.
> 
> And I have NEVER said they don't work.  Only that I hate them, which is why I whine.



You are lying because you put out a general statement that you later changed only to apply to the numbers for one week of the pandemic, and didn’t preface it. That’s a lie, and the clear and obvious implication of the lie was that the mask mandate in California doesn’t work, since you specifically mentioned the mask mandate.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. You cherry-picked one week from a 2-year period to try and make a point, and didn’t even bother to “clarify” until you got called out.

It’s like calling the Jacksonville Jaguars undefeated, then when pressed on it, you say “Well I meant this week…”


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## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> The 2nd part of that is a straight-up lie.
> 
> Per capita cases all-time for Florida: 17,046/100,000. California: 12,600/100,000. Deaths: Florida: 281/100,000. California: 184/100,000.



Yep, and his post was labeled as a result. @Herdfan vague and ambiguously false statements around this virus just to make cheap political points will be labeled, I would think about what you post in this manner going forward.


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## Joe

I love PRSI Jr.


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## Clix Pix

A long-time friend, someone I've known since our graduate school days, recently moved to Florida after retiring from her job.  She wasn't all that thrilled about becoming a permanent resident in Florida itself but she really wanted to be closer to her daughter and her granddaughters, especially since the daughter and her husband are now in the process of divorcing.    My friend was more enthused about the lack of snow and cold weather than she was about some of the other aspects of living in Florida.  She's really looking forward to only seeing TV news reports or reading about snowstorms and bad weather in Illinois now rather than actually having to deal with shoveling snow and cleaning her car off before going somewhere.   She waited until after she'd gotten her two COVID-19 vaccinations before putting her house on the market, selling it and moving.


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## Roller

Herdfan said:


> They may be effective.  But a lack of mandates is a positive aspect to some, whether you like it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I did say rate.  But yes I probably should have put "current" before "rate."



Future generations will marvel at the abject stupidity of people who railed against simple life-saving measures like masking and vaccination. It would be great if everyone went along with public health guidance, but they don't without mandates. Do you have a better solution?


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## User.45

Eric said:


> Yep, and his post was labeled as a result. @Herdfan vague and ambiguously false statements around this virus just to make cheap political points will be labeled, I would think about what you post in this manner going forward.







Hahhahaha, this is hilarious.


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## SuperMatt

I am going to Tampa soon for work. Last time I went there for work I went to Bern’s Steakhouse, which was a very unique dining experience. They literally take you to a different part of the restaurant for dessert. I am considering going back. For a steakhouse, the prices weren’t terrible, and unlike most steakhouses, the price includes salad and sides.


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## Herdfan

Eric said:


> Yep, and his post was labeled as a result. @Herdfan vague and ambiguously false statements around this virus just to make cheap political points will be labeled, I would think about what you post in this manner going forward.




I have edited my post to indicate it was based on the current rate of 7-day averages.  That is not false no matter how you slice it.  I was not intentionally trying to be vague.  I sometimes type faster than my brain processes the ways the posts will be picked apart.

But my point still stands, people will move to FL based on them not having mask mandates.  You may not like it, it certainly is a factor.


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## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> I am going to Tampa soon for work. Last time I went there for work I went to Bern’s Steakhouse, which was a very unique dining experience. They literally take you to a different part of the restaurant for dessert. I am considering going back. For a steakhouse, the prices weren’t terrible, and unlike most steakhouses, the price includes salad and sides.




Been there several times as my father is from Tampa.  He knew Bern's when it was just a sandwich shop.

If you are into wine, they have, or at least had, the largest wine collection in the world.


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## SuperMatt

Herdfan said:


> I have edited my post to indicate it was based on the current rate of 7-day averages.  That is not false no matter how you slice it.  I was not intentionally trying to be vague.  I sometimes type faster than my brain processes the ways the posts will be picked apart.
> 
> But my point still stands, people will move to FL based on them not having mask mandates.  You may not like it, it certainly is a factor.




Do you have evidence of people moving thousands of miles from California to Florida “based on them not having mask mandates”?


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## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> Do you have evidence of people moving thousands of miles from California to Florida “based on them not having mask mandates”?




Please show where I said people were moving from CA to FL.  I never said that.  Ever.  I said people would move to FL based on a lack of mandates, but I NEVER said from where.  You inferred incorrectly I meant CA.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

Edd said:


> I think people hate winter more than summer, FLA is huge and historically cheap (not exactly these days) and that’s it. It’s a shitty version of paradise (location with tropical weather). Confession: looks like boaters heaven, which I have respect for.




I think Florida is a tropical paradise for people who haven't actually been to one or know any better, similar to thinking Trump is a successful businessman...who just so happens to live in Florida now.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

Clix Pix said:


> A long-time friend, someone I've known since our graduate school days, recently moved to Florida after retiring from her job.  She wasn't all that thrilled about becoming a permanent resident in Florida itself but she really wanted to be closer to her daughter and her granddaughters, especially since the daughter and her husband are now in the process of divorcing.    My friend was more enthused about the lack of snow and cold weather than she was about some of the other aspects of living in Florida.  She's really looking forward to only seeing TV news reports or reading about snowstorms and bad weather in Illinois now rather than actually having to deal with shoveling snow and cleaning her car off before going somewhere.   She waited until after she'd gotten her two COVID-19 vaccinations before putting her house on the market, selling it and moving.




I feel like people in the NorthEast aren't aware that they don't have to go as far south as Florida to escape the snow, or is it that places north of Florida are less appealing to live (than Florida?!)?


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## Chew Toy McCoy

JagRunner said:


> You can find good and bad in any state.




True, but with the exception of snow it seems like Florida has put in a concerted effort to adopt the bad from all states.  It's for people who like the worst of all worlds.


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## Herdfan

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I feel like people in the NorthEast aren't aware that they don't have to go as far south as Florida to escape the snow, or is it that places north of Florida are less appealing to live (than Florida?!)?




Again, don't discount the lack of state income taxes, especially for those coming from higher tax states like NY, NJ, CT and MA.  Granted some other taxes may be higher, but FL gets a tremendous amount of revenue from vacationers to help balance their budget.

I personally would not go to FL as I hate traffic and gridlock.  I would pick TN if I wanted to remain in the SE.  Also no state income taxes.


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## MEJHarrison

JagRunner said:


> I love PRSI Jr.




Jr?  Where did you get Jr. from?  Do you have a source for that?


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## Chew Toy McCoy

Herdfan said:


> Again, don't discount the lack of state income taxes, especially for those coming from higher tax states like NY, NJ, CT and MA.  Granted some other taxes may be higher, but FL gets a tremendous amount of revenue from vacationers to help balance their budget.
> 
> I personally would not go to FL as I hate traffic and gridlock.  I would pick TN if I wanted to remain in the SE.  Also no state income taxes.




I wouldn't discount that, but feel a lot of things are relative like when people say to move to an area that has a cheaper cost of living but the jobs pay lower as well and a $300 a month car payment is $300 a month no matter where you live.  Also as soon as you step off your porch there's Florida (in this case).  Generally speaking the cheaper a place is to live, the more it's going to suck by a lot of possible different factors.


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## Renzatic

Herdfan said:


> I personally would not go to FL as I hate traffic and gridlock. I would pick TN if I wanted to remain in the SE. Also no state income taxes.




Take it from me, you don't want to live in Tennessee. It's the only place in the country where there's roadwork going on 24/7/365, yet the roads are still complete shit.


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## Alli

Renzatic said:


> Take it from me, you don't want to live in Tennessee. It's the only place in the country where there's roadwork going on 24/7/365, yet the roads are still complete shit.



That pretty much describes everywhere from Ohio south.


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## Renzatic

Alli said:


> That pretty much describes everywhere from Ohio south.




It's worse in Tennessee. Trust me.

Though South Carolina might have it even worse. I remember a trip I took up I-85 here about a decade or so ago. You're driving in Georgia out of Atlanta, and it's all smoothing sailing, and nice natural decorations on the sides of the roads. As soon as you cross that state line, you suddenly find yourself in a Mad Max style wasteland.


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## Alli

Renzatic said:


> It's worse in Tennessee. Trust me.



You need to pop over to Mobile. We’re not sure what route the parades will take for Mardi Gras this year, because the main road of “Route A” has been torn up for the past year. It was supposed to be completed 4 months ago, but it doesn’t look anywhere close to done.


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## Renzatic

Alli said:


> You need to pop over to Mobile. We’re not sure what route the parades will take for Mardi Gras this year, because the main road of “Route A” has been torn up for the past year. It was supposed to be completed 4 months ago, but it doesn’t look anywhere close to done.




Yeah, just try the 24/75 split up in Chattanooga, also know as the place where people go to die. I will happily go 20 minutes out of my to avoid it.

People have been complaining about it for years now. It took a piece of the bridge falling off and landing on a guy's car to get them to do anything about it.

...now it's even worse.


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## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> Take it from me, you don't want to live in Tennessee. It's the only place in the country where there's roadwork going on 24/7/365, yet the roads are still complete shit.




Maybe not the _only _place...

I was laughing this morning to see that once again the county road crew (now in their usual belated rush to deepen the ditches before next spring's rush of snowmelt) have once again gone back on their now ten-year-old casual promise to "get that rogue honeysuckle out of your ditch there on the east end next time we swing through.").

It's officially in their right of way to mess around with, but at their convenience becomes "my ditch", see.

Of course the shrub has been chainsawed down a few times since then by my lawn care guy,  but has put down roots that would defy heavy machinery trying to drag it out.  Last time I was out there when the crew did come by, and I mentioned the old promise, a guy then leaning on a shovel while waiting for a dump truck to return glanced at the thing --he called it a tree-- and said yeah it's gettin' late in the day for us to fix that, we'd probably uproot the culvert under your driveway if we tried to take it out now, just chainsaw it down now and then like ya been doin', it won't bother your ditch.

The infrastructure bill passage is welcome around here but some things are never gonna change.


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## Joe

People move for all kinds of reasons, but I doubt a mask policy is high on that list. No state income tax is probably a big reason. Or maybe someone just likes sunny weather. Who knows? 

I mean, we can call people in California crazy for wanting to live there and not able to afford housing to the point of needing roommates. 

Like I said, good and bad in all States. No one State is perfect.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

Alli said:


> That pretty much describes everywhere from Ohio south.




The infrastructure bill will fix all that!  Although I have no doubt every road crew will have a caravan of Trump supporters armed with road-destroying jackhammers right behind them.  They don't want people driving on some damn socialist road.

The roads aren't too bad where I am at in the Bay Area but there's a section of freeway by Oakland that's like driving on a museum of 3 decades of shotty patch jobs and conflicting layers of lane paint.  It would probably be in better shape if the military carpet-bombed it.


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## Eric

I visited my mother in Daytona Beach way back when and loved it, the water temp in the ocean was in the 80s in October, you can drive on the beach and there's a Cracker Barrel every 10 miles, who wouldn't love that? I won't let political views impact that at all, they all have their pockets on both sides.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

Eric said:


> I visited my mother in Daytona Beach way back when and loved it, the water temp in the ocean was in the 80s in October, you can drive on the beach and there's a Cracker Barrel every 10 miles, who wouldn't love that? I won't let political views impact that at all, they all have their pockets on both sides.




I removed politics from my original list which still leaves a lot to not love.


The humidity. The hurricanes. The politics. The stupid. The conmen. The low IQ criminals. Exotic pet dumping ground that quickly becomes prolific invasive species. Architecturally it’s gaudy fused with tacky. At any given time half the population is on whatever hot new brain frying narcotic that is on the market. It's like the country's largest trailer park and that might literally be true per capita.


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## SuperMatt

Herdfan said:


> Please show where I said people were moving from CA to FL.  I never said that.  Ever.  I said people would move to FL based on a lack of mandates, but I NEVER said from where.  You inferred incorrectly I meant CA.



You are the one who specifically compared CA to FL, then I guess what... you decided you’re dropping the comparison without notice, and I was supposed to read your mind on that? Just like I was supposed to read your mind on the infection rate that you were taking about one specific WEEK during a 2-year pandemic.

It seems to me that you’re being disingenuous, but if you want to play games... Give me evidence of somebody moving to Florida from ANYWHERE specifically to avoid a mask mandate.


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## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> You are the one who specifically compared CA to FL, then I guess what... you decided you’re dropping the comparison without notice, and I was supposed to read your mind on that? Just like I was supposed to read your mind on the infection rate that you were taking about one specific WEEK during a 2-year pandemic.
> 
> It seems to me that you’re being disingenuous, but if you want to play games... Give me evidence of somebody moving to Florida from ANYWHERE specifically to avoid a mask mandate.




I told @Eric via PM that I would remove that from my post and discontinue that topic in this thread.  So not ignoring you, just doing what I told him I would do.  Sorry.


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## Renzatic

You can sometimes tell there's still a bit of animosity left over from the PRSI days lurking around.


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## Edd

My time in Pensacola in the late 90s was when I saw many religious people with signs, very routine down there I learned. That would be a very odd sight in the northeast. 

There were a shocking amount of check cashing places and strip clubs. Incredible beaches. Also, I tried boiled peanuts for the first and last time. Those were a huge disappointment.


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## Herdfan

Renzatic said:


> You can sometimes tell there's still a bit of animosity left over from the PRSI days lurking around.




Maybe.  But the main one who attacked any and every post I made is not here.  At least not by their PRSI name.

And in all fairness, get @SuperMatt and myself in a non-political thread and there is never an issue.  At least it seems that way to me.


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## SuperMatt

Herdfan said:


> I told @Eric via PM that I would remove that from my post and discontinue that topic in this thread.  So not ignoring you, just doing what I told him I would do.  Sorry.



OK then - feel free to post evidence of people moving to Florida specifically to avoid a mask mandate at your earliest convenience.


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## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> OK then - feel free to post evidence of people moving to Florida specifically to avoid a mask mandate at your earliest convenience.



Sorry, but not sure what *discontinue that topic* means to you, but ...................

So I won't be addressing it no matter how many times or ways you ask.  Sorry.  So if you must post that I refused to answer, then feel free to do so.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

SuperMatt said:


> OK then - feel free to post evidence of people moving to Florida specifically to avoid a mask mandate at your earliest convenience.




To be fair I said "sane person".  If anybody is going to move to a different state to avoid mask mandates I would not consider that person sane.  But if somebody were to move to a different state specifically because of a difference of opinion over Covid then that new home state would most likely be Florida.  I don't think Texas is insane enough to match their level of rage move.


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## Alli

Edd said:


> My time in Pensacola in the late 90s was when I saw many religious people with signs, very routine down there I learned. That would be a very odd sight in the northeast.
> 
> There were a shocking amount of check cashing places and strip clubs. Incredible beaches. Also, I tried boiled peanuts for the first and last time. Those were a huge disappointment.



Things have not changed. (Only my husband enjoys boiled peanuts.)


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## Renzatic

Alli said:


> Things have not changed. (Only my husband enjoys boiled peanuts.)




Boiled peanuts are alright. I still eat them every once in awhile.


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## Renzatic

Alli said:


> Dislike!




I saw your dislike, Alli, and you are WRONG! Boiled peanuts are moderately okay!


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## Hrafn

Renzatic said:


> I saw your dislike, Alli, and you are WRONG! Boiled peanuts are moderately okay!



I have been known to buy raw peanuts, boil and eat them.


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## Renzatic

Hrafn said:


> I have been known to buy raw peanuts, boil and eat them.




I prefer them roasted and salted, but sometimes I'll find myself staring some down in some backwoods gas station, and think "hey, why not?"


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## Chew Toy McCoy

Only in Florida would boiling peanuts be considered some kind of culinary artform.


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## Hrafn

Herdfan said:


> Maybe.  But the main one who attacked any and every post I made is not here.  At least not by their PRSI name.
> 
> And in all fairness, get @SuperMatt and myself in a non-political thread and there is never an issue.  At least it seems that way to me.



If this is a reference to me, if you post stupid, I'm going to call you out, and I have.


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## Huntn

Alli said:


> My mother, my daughter, my uncle and aunt, my brother and sister-in-law, and both nephews live there. It’s a nice place to visit.



My Dad lives there. There are some cool places in Florida and I’m not talking about Disney Land. The usual reason to move to Florida was to get away from the weather in the North East. I wanted a change from Maryland and spent my first 3 semesters in college at the University of Miami, Coral Gables, but decided hot climates were not for me, and finished school in upstate, New York at Syracuse University which suited me much better. My father moved there from Maryland to follow his flying buddies to a place where winter was negligible.

The politics SUCK, as they do across the South and virtually outside most urban areas, for which I am stating the obvious. I thought I knew this country, before all the selfish, racist, right wing, evangelical assholes decided to be brave enough to crawl out from under their rocks.


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## Herdfan

Hrafn said:


> If this is a reference to me, if you post stupid, I'm going to call you out, and I have.



Honestly have no idea if it is you.  Your posts seem different than the person to who I am referring.


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## Renzatic

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Only in Florida would boiling peanuts be considered some kind of culinary artform.




It's a southern thing in general, not just Florida. No matter where you go around here, you will at some point run across a crockpot full of peanuts on slow boil.

Sometimes, they put BBQ sauce in with the peanuts. It is a tasty additional treat.


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## Herdfan

Renzatic said:


> It's a southern thing in general, not just Florida. No matter where you go around here, you will at some point run across a crockpot full of peanuts on slow boil.
> 
> Sometimes, they put BBQ sauce in with the peanuts. It is a tasty additional treat.




So are pecan logs.  Anyone remember Stuckey's from their travels in the south pre-2000ish?


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## Alli

Renzatic said:


> I saw your dislike, Alli, and you are WRONG! Boiled peanuts are moderately okay!



Evidently we have different definitions of moderate.


Hrafn said:


> I have been known to buy raw peanuts, boil and eat them.



As an irate student once said to me “is you crazy?!”


Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Only in Florida would boiling peanuts be considered some kind of culinary artform.



Nope, they’re big in south Alabama and the Mississippi gulf coast too.


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## Hrafn

Alli said:


> Evidently we have different definitions of moderate.
> 
> As an irate student once said to me “is you crazy?!”
> 
> Nope, they’re big in south Alabama and the Mississippi gulf coast too.



Edamame: good.  Boiled peanuts: also good.


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## Renzatic

Herdfan said:


> So are pecan logs.  Anyone remember Stuckey's from their travels in the south pre-2000ish?




Ah, pecan logs. That's how you know when Shriner season has begun.

I never really got to visit Stuckey's before. I've seen a few here and there back in the day, but I've never stopped at one. One thing I do miss around here is Shoney's. I used to love that place when I was a kid.


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## lizkat

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> To be fair I said "sane person".  If anybody is going to move to a different state to avoid mask mandates I would not consider that person sane.  But if somebody were to move to a different state specifically because of a difference of opinion over Covid then that new home state would most likely be Florida.  I don't think Texas is insane enough to match their level of rage move.




I don't think people usually move to another state for the sake of a specific change in political ambience.   It's usually still about "the economy, stupid".   So taxes, yeah, but masks, probably not.   If you pore through census data on reasons for change of residence, most of it seems related to jobs or perceived financial advantage.









						CPS Historical Migration/Geographic Mobility Tables
					

This table package shows historical geographical mobility estimates and rates going back to 1948.




					www.census.gov
				




The freedom that Americans have to move to another state does often seem or actually is diminished by lack of enough money to enable going for it without feeling like one is jumping off a cliff,    but there are times when it seems logical to try, and pending retirement or job loss is one of those times. 

The USA has been and is in a time of relatively high interstate migration due partly to ongoing shrinkage of a lot of blue collar manufacturing, but more of it now can be attributed to the boomers aging out of the workforce (voluntarily or otherwise).  To the extent they can or have unburdened themselves of ties like elder care and relatively illiquid assets (a business, a home), many do seem bent on relocation for retirement,  mostly in search of lower taxes, less harsh weather, cheaper housing. 

Word of mouth from friends and relatives still seems a factor for Americans approaching retirement age.   Politics might well be an implicit factor there, and the whole thing about "birds of a feather flocking together" is not without evidence.  But to say it was politics that draws the flock somewhere in the first place seems a stretch to me.  The charts below were drawn from the census data cited near beginning of this post.









						Moving Trends in 2021: Moving Industry Stats & Data | Move.org
					

Read Move.org’s exclusive report on 2021’s moving trends to learn why Americans moved and which states they moved to during this unpredictable year.




					www.move.org


----------



## Herdfan

Renzatic said:


> Ah, pecan logs. That's how you know when Shriner season has begun.
> 
> I never really got to visit Stuckey's before. I've seen a few here and there back in the day, but I've never stopped at one. One thing I do miss around here is Shoney's. I used to love that place when I was a kid.




Were your Shoney's "Big Boys"?  Our started off that way but then dropped the Big Boy and became just Shoney's.

Every Saturday morning when my daughter was young just the two of us hit the local Shoney's breakfast bar.  It was our thing.  Now they are all almost gone.


----------



## Renzatic

Herdfan said:


> Were your Shoney's "Big Boys"?  Our started off that way but then dropped the Big Boy and became just Shoney's.




I don't think so. I don't remember a Big Boys ever being around. Just the Shoney's

Though keep in mind this was in the mid-late 80's, when I was 5-10 years old.



> Every Saturday morning when my daughter was young just the two of us hit the local Shoney's breakfast bar.  It was our thing.  Now they are all almost gone.




I feel ya, man. My dad and I used to hit up Shoney's every other Sunday morning to do the same thing. It was awesome!


----------



## lizkat

Renzatic said:


> It's a southern thing in general, not just Florida. No matter where you go around here, you will at some point run across a crockpot full of peanuts on slow boil.
> 
> Sometimes, they put BBQ sauce in with the peanuts. It is a tasty additional treat.




I like soy sauce and rice vinegar on dry roasted unsalted peanuts with reheated cooked brown rice sometimes in the morning instead of oatmeal.  If I let them be in the microwave a little long it's _almost_ like seasoned boiled peanuts lol.


----------



## Renzatic

lizkat said:


> I like soy sauce and rice vinegar on dry roasted unsalted peanuts with reheated cooked brown rice sometimes in the morning instead of oatmeal.  If I let them be in the microwave a little long it's _almost_ like seasoned boiled peanuts lol.




Take it to the next step, Liz. Go all the way.



			https://www.yummly.com/recipe/Szechuan-Chicken-Dish-1516966


----------



## SuperMatt

lizkat said:


> I don't think people usually move to another state for the sake of a specific change in political ambience.   It's usually still about "the economy, stupid".   So taxes, yeah, but masks, probably not.   If you pore through census data on reasons for change of residence, most of it seems related to jobs or perceived financial advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPS Historical Migration/Geographic Mobility Tables
> 
> 
> This table package shows historical geographical mobility estimates and rates going back to 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.census.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The freedom that Americans have to move to another state does often seem or actually is diminished by lack of enough money to enable going for it without feeling like one is jumping off a cliff,    but there are times when it seems logical to try, and pending retirement or job loss is one of those times.
> 
> The USA has been and is in a time of relatively high interstate migration due partly to ongoing shrinkage of a lot of blue collar manufacturing, but more of it now can be attributed to the boomers aging out of the workforce (voluntarily or otherwise).  To the extent they can or have unburdened themselves of ties like elder care and relatively illiquid assets (a business, a home), many do seem bent on relocation for retirement,  mostly in search of lower taxes, less harsh weather, cheaper housing.
> 
> Word of mouth from friends and relatives still seems a factor for Americans approaching retirement age.   Politics might well be an implicit factor there, and the whole thing about "birds of a feather flocking together" is not without evidence.  But to say it was politics that draws the flock somewhere in the first place seems a stretch to me.  The charts below were drawn from the census data cited near beginning of this post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moving Trends in 2021: Moving Industry Stats & Data | Move.org
> 
> 
> Read Move.org’s exclusive report on 2021’s moving trends to learn why Americans moved and which states they moved to during this unpredictable year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.move.org



Exactly. Nobody is moving to avoid a mask mandate, or because their state doesn’t have a mask mandate. Moving is expensive and time-consuming. Most people live near their families. The main reasons for moving are to get a better job or for family reasons. There are lots of liberal people in Austin TX; they aren’t moving because of Greg Abbott; they need to keep their jobs and/or stay near their families. They will stay and vote for a different leader.


----------



## Herdfan

SuperMatt said:


> Exactly. Nobody is moving to avoid a mask mandate, or because their state doesn’t have a mask mandate.




You are looking at the mask mandates and the opposition to them solely as mask mandates and not the underlying reasons for them.  I agree that very few people will move based on mask mandates, but the political basis for them is a valid reason.  For example, there is only one Blue state I would consider moving to; Colorado.  But would move to most of the Southeast without question. 

For example, I would rather live in a state where the Governor stands up for the people and businesses vs one where the Governor issues decrees ordering mask mandates and shutting businesses down and then goes and violates his/her own orders.


----------



## SuperMatt

Herdfan said:


> I agree that very few people will move based on mask mandates



I have not seen evidence of even a single person doing so.


----------



## Joe

Herdfan said:


> You are looking at the mask mandates and the opposition to them solely as mask mandates and not the underlying reasons for them.  I agree that very few people will move based on mask mandates, but the political basis for them is a valid reason.  For example, there is only one Blue state I would consider moving to; Colorado.  But would move to most of the Southeast without question.
> 
> For example, I would rather live in a state where the Governor stands up for the people and businesses vs one where the Governor issues decrees ordering mask mandates and shutting businesses down and then goes and violates his/her own orders.




What about one where a governor lets his citizens freeze?


----------



## SuperMatt

JagRunner said:


> What about one where a governor lets his citizens freeze?



As much as I disliked her, can you really blame Sarah Palin for the climate in Alaska? ;-)

But as to your point: people are NOT leaving Texas because they dislike a senator (such as Cruz as you suggest) or a governor. They are staying because they have jobs and family there. Just like conservatives with jobs in NY are not moving to Florida to avoid senators or governors they dislike. Heck, it’s hard to get people to move out of areas that regularly flood due to hurricanes… so I’m not buying the nonsense that people move because of something as trivial as a mask mandate… especially since zero evidence has been offered up to support even ONE person moving for such a reason,


----------



## januarydrive7

Herdfan said:


> You are looking at the mask mandates and the opposition to them solely as mask mandates and not the underlying reasons for them.  I agree that very few people will move based on mask mandates, but the political basis for them is a valid reason.  For example, there is only one Blue state I would consider moving to; Colorado.  But would move to most of the Southeast without question.
> 
> For example, I would rather live in a state where the Governor stands up for the people and businesses vs one where the Governor issues decrees ordering mask mandates and shutting businesses down and then goes and violates his/her own orders.



Wait, there are people who have opposition to saving people's lives?  I can _kind of_ understand the opposition to masks ("they're uncomfortable", "it feels like I can't breath", etc.), but people opposing scientifically verified facts that germs happen to spread, and masking can prevent some of that?


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Herdfan said:


> You are looking at the mask mandates and the opposition to them solely as mask mandates and not the underlying reasons for them.  I agree that very few people will move based on mask mandates, but the political basis for them is a valid reason.  For example, there is only one Blue state I would consider moving to; Colorado.  But would move to most of the Southeast without question.
> 
> For example, I would rather live in a state where the Governor stands up for the people and businesses vs one where the Governor issues decrees ordering mask mandates and shutting businesses down and then goes and violates his/her own orders.




As far as politics I also mean the (presumed) mentality of the locals.  I live in CA and am a bit tired of the mask mandate, but most people are on the same page, even if reluctantly.  I wouldn't want to live somewhere where either wearing a mask or not wearing one could lead to some kind of confrontation or comment hurling and not knowing what the policy or mentality is from building to building.  I also don't want to live where I would be bombarded with Fox News talking points in a general conversation.   I certainly don't want to live where there's a bunch of Trump-supporting signs littering people's front yards. 

All that is regardless of what the actual government is or isn't doing there.  I don't want my stomach in knots every time I leave the house.  I understand that kind of environment might be normal and fine for some people, but it isn't for me.


----------



## Herdfan

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> As far as politics I also mean the (presumed) mentality of the locals.  I live in CA and am a bit tired of the mask mandate, but most people are on the same page, even if reluctantly.  I wouldn't want to live somewhere where either wearing a mask or not wearing one could lead to some kind of confrontation or comment hurling and not knowing what the policy or mentality is from building to building.  I also don't want to live where I would be bombarded with Fox News talking points in a general conversation.   I certainly don't want to live where there's a bunch of Trump-supporting signs littering people's front yards.
> 
> All that is regardless of what the actual government is or isn't doing there.  I don't want my stomach in knots every time I leave the house.  I understand that kind of environment might be normal and fine for some people, but it isn't for me.




We have no mandate and I would guess that maybe 20% of the people out shopping are wearing one, mainly older folks.  More at Kroger, fewer at Home Depot.  And I have not ever seen anyone confront them for wearing one.  Kind of live and let live.  If a business wants you to wear one, it is usually clearly displayed on the front door.  

As for Trump signs, there are very few.  Can't remember the last time I saw one.  See a few FJB and LGB's, but they are mainly on the people's vehicles and not in their yards.  

I wish you could come visit.  I'm not sure where you have gotten your view of how things are in Red states, but mostly things are pretty chill.  If you are ever out this way, let me know and I will show you around.  I think we would actually get along even though we tend to disagree on some things.


----------



## Renzatic

Herdfan said:


> As for Trump signs, there are very few. Can't remember the last time I saw one. See a few FJB and LGB's, but they are mainly on the people's vehicles and not in their yards.




There's one guy a couple houses down from me who still has his Trump/Pence 2020 sign up. He refuses to take it down.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Herdfan said:


> We have no mandate and I would guess that maybe 20% of the people out shopping are wearing one, mainly older folks.  More at Kroger, fewer at Home Depot.  And I have not ever seen anyone confront them for wearing one.  Kind of live and let live.  If a business wants you to wear one, it is usually clearly displayed on the front door.
> 
> As for Trump signs, there are very few.  Can't remember the last time I saw one.  See a few FJB and LGB's, but they are mainly on the people's vehicles and not in their yards.
> 
> I wish you could come visit.  I'm not sure where you have gotten your view of how things are in Red states, but mostly things are pretty chill.  If you are ever out this way, let me know and I will show you around.  I think we would actually get along even though we tend to disagree on some things.




Yeah, my views are probably fairly skewed and limited by the media, and I wouldn't say it's just the left-wing media (not saying you would either).  Even on right-wing media there's no shortage of coverage of unhinged people on the right.  The difference is they support the reason they are unhinged and think it's justified.  The left sees them more as a zombie horde militia.

Where do you live?  I saw some photos you posted in the photo thread.  You appear to be more south than I expected.  I was thinking you were up in Wisconsin or thereabouts.    

I'm sure we could find some common ground.   One of my favorite memories was sitting at the bar on a cruise ship and struck up a conversation with a stranger that went into the wee hours of the night, me - Silicon Valley youngish liberal, him - retired Texas oilman.  We talked about all kinds of things, including misperceptions, and I don't think it ever went south.


----------



## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> I wish you could come visit. I'm not sure where you have gotten your view of how things are in Red states, but mostly things are pretty chill. If you are ever out this way, let me know and I will show you around. I think we would actually get along even though we tend to disagree on some things.






Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Yeah, my views are probably fairly skewed and limited by the media, and I wouldn't say it's just the left-wing media (not saying you would either). Even on right-wing media there's no shortage of coverage of unhinged people on the right. The difference is they support the reason they are unhinged and think it's justified. The left sees them more as a zombie horde militia.




The media make a buck by covering extremes, so it s/b no surprise we all get a skewed idea of what somebody else from somewhere else might consider "normal".   What we don't usually learn is that people from wherever that is don't think extremes are normal either.   But we still buy the papers or look at them over someone's shoulder on the train... and read about their 15 seconds of fame when some Tweet or Facebook post goes viral (and of course is then picked up by established media as well).   

What I don't like is how we all get sucked into figuring "liberals" or "right wingers" are so different in hopes and dreams and so in conduct of daily life towards realizing them.   Our speech patterns in social media battles are different, of course, but aside from pre-amped public disagreements, we tend not to be quite so dismissive of each other in real life. 

  I've seen that every time I show up at a potluck dinner in this tiny unincorporated village. Half the village is retired farmers, half more urban people who bought a seasonal residence or fixer-upper and ended up retiring here.

Our politics are way different, and that becomes apparent at the edges of those social gatherings, if anyone is dumb enough to mention any of the buzzwords that both major political parties have brought us nearly or actually to blows over during the past half century or so.

But we were not born with a desire to redefine and devalue commentary of others in a room.  And somehow our congress critters and assemblymen have often managed to solve problems in bipartisan fashion by listening to all the constituents and seeking feasible answers to their (sometimes angry) questions and challenges.

It's a dirty little secret though that nowadays the party leaders only cut this bipartisan effort any slack when the district in question is up for grabs.  If it's all red or all blue then the very idea of working across the aisle with a peer in some other district (and of the other major party) is grounds for some party honcho or wannabe climber to suggest that a primary race might be next up.   And like little parrots, we ordinary Americans see our political leaders behave this way and then emulate it, at least in social media and increasingly in public behavior as well.

If might help if we just quit subscribing to the idea from on high that everything (and everyone) can be condensed to some sharp phrase in the set of all buzzwords coined for use in campaign ads.   It would be a tough slog though, because it's years and years we've been conditioned to stereotype each other and our respective ideas about how government should work.   I know that as a lefty I do fall into making stereotypes of the right that don't fit all my right-leaning friends around here.  It's reactive and a little lazy.  My excuse is that I'm pushing back against those on the right who stereotype behavior of lefties.   I know I have counterparts on the right as well!

The problem is that anyone suggesting we could all just get along --at least in more civil dialogue-- often gets consigned to the "centrist" slot in politics, whether in fact they're an old fashioned conservative or a new left progressive.  I find that tragic, because talking with each other irrespective of labels (and listening) is the only way political battles get ended without good ideas (and sometimes people) ending up dead for no good reason.


----------



## Herdfan

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Where do you live?  I saw some photos you posted in the photo thread.  You appear to be more south than I expected.  I was thinking you were up in Wisconsin or thereabouts.



West Virginia.   Hence why many of the Manchin posts are directed at me.  Like I voted for him.  Oh wait, I did.


----------



## Clix Pix

West Virgina....."Mountain Mamma".   .   I went to college in West Virginia, a nice little school called West Virgina Wesleyan, in Buckhannon.


----------



## Herdfan

Clix Pix said:


> West Virgina....."Mountain Mamma".   .   I went to college in West Virginia, a nice little school called West Virgina Wesleyan, in Buckhannon.



I believe we discussed this over at PRSI.


----------



## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> I believe we discussed this over at PRSI.




Yeah but now we can't prove or disprove anything from over there.

The only really great thing about PRSI being gone from that other place is that we can all now remember with renewed assurance that we won every debate in which we engaged.    Any screen grabs of old posts to the contrary are surely PhotoShopped or outright fakes...


----------



## Renzatic

Herdfan said:


> West Virginia.   Hence why many of the Manchin posts are directed at me.  Like I voted for him.  Oh wait, I did.




Damn Yankees all over the place up in here!


----------



## Clix Pix

Herdfan said:


> I believe we discussed this over at PRSI.



Did we?  I rarely ventured into PRSI and usually it was by accident!


----------



## Herdfan

Clix Pix said:


> Did we?  I rarely ventured into PRSI and usually it was by accident!



It might have been here, but I haven't been here that long so I figured it was there.


----------



## Renzatic

Clix Pix said:


> Did we?  I rarely ventured into PRSI and usually it was by accident!




Ah, I remember PRSI. It was a den of rabid jackals. I miss it so!


----------



## Hrafn

Renzatic said:


> Ah, I remember PRSI. It was a den of rabid jackals. I miss it so!



They are mostly still there, hidden behind mod protection so long as they maintain QAnon bonifieds.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Herdfan said:


> West Virginia.   Hence why many of the Manchin posts are directed at me.  Like I voted for him.  Oh wait, I did.




Well, that's awkward.       When the liberals were storming his yacht were you the guy in the background yelling "Don't listen to them, Joe.  You're doing great!"


----------



## Clix Pix

Herdfan said:


> It might have been here, but I haven't been here that long so I figured it was there.



Ah, that could be, that it was here.....    Whatever!


----------



## Huntn

Herdfan said:


> West Virginia.   Hence why many of the Manchin posts are directed at me.  Like I voted for him.  Oh wait, I did.



Any clue why he calls himself a Democrat, especially with obliviousness to such a fundamental threat to Democracy in this country in the face of  a pack of Republicans who have broken bad? He‘s functioning as their sleeper agent. My guess as a replacement for Senator Byrd he‘s just appropriated the Demicrat label and Is a  DINO.


----------



## Herdfan

Huntn said:


> Any clue why he calls himself a Democrat, especially with obliviousness to such a fundamental threat to Democracy in this country in the face of  a pack of Republicans who have broken bad? He‘s functioning as their sleeper agent. My guess as a replacement for Senator Byrd he‘s just appropriated the Demicrat label and Is a  DINO.




Family history.  His uncle was SOS for what seemed like decades.  Then he rose up through the Democratic machine back when WV was heavily democratic.  But he, and most WV Democrats were socially and fiscally more conservative than Dems in other states.  They were Dems because of the unions.  So he isn't really any more conservative than he ever was.

Now I will say this, he was a great Governor.  He didn't care who had a good idea if it was a good idea.  He wanted both sides to work together and come up with something they both could live with.  He wants DC to be that way as well, but is not really getting much traction with that.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

Well, I now know a Fox loving anti-vaxxer moving from CA to FL.

A little background. When his parents passed away he inherited some money which he invested in rental properties back before the real estate boom. When that happened he accordingly jacked up the rents, bought more rental properties, and quit his day job. Rinse and repeat. For the past 2 decades he has been living entirely off rental property income and in doing so he was able to build a custom house in the Santa Cruz hills with an ocean view. The west facing wall is a 2 story plate of glass. The master bedroom upstairs goes about half the distance over the living room and instead of a west facing wall there’s a glass half wall so from his bedroom he can overlook the living room and the 2 story glass wall with the ocean view. It also has a 3 car garage with each spot having a hydraulic lift, so technically a 6 car garage. He bought a $600,000 racing car which he got bored with and sold. He used that sale money to buy a 50' yacht.

He hates taxes and feels poor people and illegal immigrants are parasites. So while I can’t claim he’s moving to Florida entirely because of Covid, he certainly ticks a lot of other boxes that would make him want to call Florida home. He’s become the quintessential “This state has allowed me to become insanely rich with little effort. Fuck this state.” Californian.


----------



## Joe

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Well, I now know a Fox loving anti-vaxxer moving from CA to FL.
> 
> A little background. When his parents passed away he inherited some money which he invested in rental properties back before the real estate boom. When that happened he accordingly jacked up the rents, bought more rental properties, and quit his day job. Rinse and repeat. For the past 2 decades he has been living entirely off rental property income and in doing so he was able to build a custom house in the Santa Cruz hills with an ocean view. The west facing wall is a 2 story plate of glass. The master bedroom upstairs goes about half the distance over the living room and instead of a west facing wall there’s a glass half wall so from his bedroom he can overlook the living room and the 2 story glass wall with the ocean view. It also has a 3 car garage with each spot having a hydraulic lift, so technically a 6 car garage. He bought a $600,000 racing car which he got bored with and sold. He used that sale money to buy a 50' yacht.
> 
> He hates taxes and feels poor people and illegal immigrants are parasites. So while I can’t claim he’s moving to Florida entirely because of Covid, he certainly ticks a lot of other boxes that would make him want to call Florida home. He’s become the quintessential “This state has allowed me to become insanely rich with little effort. Fuck this state.” Californian.




Maybe we should start a thread "What sane person moves to CommieFornia" LOL

In all seriousness, gotta love someone that inherited money to get his wealth, then looks down on others. Those are the worse type of people. I call him the exception to the rule. Most people aren't moving states because of Covid/Mask rules. He has the wealth to make the move easily.


----------



## Eric

JagRunner said:


> *Maybe we should start a thread "What sane person moves to CommieFornia" LOL*
> 
> In all seriousness, gotta love someone that inherited money to get his wealth, then looks down on others. Those are the worse type of people. I call him the exception to the rule. Most people aren't moving states because of Covid/Mask rules. He has the wealth to make the move easily.



And clearly you would lead that charge with your disdain for the state but I shouldn't have to remind you of what an absolute shit hole Texas is so it's a little disingenuous.


----------



## Renzatic

Eric said:


> And clearly you would lead that charge with your disdain for the state but I shouldn't have to remind you of what an absolute shit hole Texas is so it's a little disingenuous.




I went to Texas here a couple years back. It wasn't bad.

Lots of cow skulls.


----------



## Eric

Renzatic said:


> I went to Texas here a couple years back. It wasn't bad.
> 
> Lots of cow skulls.



Yeah but were you black or holding hands with another man?


----------



## Renzatic

Eric said:


> Yeah but were you black or holding hands with another man?




Not at the time, no.


----------



## MEJHarrison

I've lived in Texas (I was in Houston for ~6 months when I was 12) and California (I was in LA for college).  Trying to figure out which is better is like trying to figure out if I'd like to die from a gunshot wound or a stabbing.


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

JagRunner said:


> Maybe we should start a thread "What sane person moves to CommieFornia" LOL
> 
> In all seriousness, gotta love someone that inherited money to get his wealth, then looks down on others. Those are the worse type of people. I call him the exception to the rule. Most people aren't moving states because of Covid/Mask rules. He has the wealth to make the move easily.




I also think that when you have a “job” where every penny spent is coming out of your personal profit, then yeah, you are probably going to be hyper aware of taxes and money costing regulations.  You’d probably spend a good part of your time trying to figure out how to avoid paying them. Most people don’t have a job where micromanaging their personal wealth is a large part of it. There are all kinds of degrees to which you could do your job better or worse and it would have zero effect on your paycheck.


----------



## Eric

Eric said:


> Yeah but were you black or* holding hands with another man?*






Renzatic said:


> Not at the time, no.



And now? Asking for a friend.


----------



## Joe

Eric said:


> And clearly you would lead that charge with your disdain for the state but I shouldn't have to remind you of what an absolute shit hole Texas is so it's a little disingenuous.




LOL, I have nothing against California. I was making a joke because that is what Republicans call it. Dang, some of y'all are so easily offended. SMH


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

MEJHarrison said:


> I've lived in Texas (I was in Houston for ~6 months when I was 12) and California (I was in LA for college).  Trying to figure out which is better is like trying to figure out if I'd like to die from a gunshot wound or a stabbing.




Before Trump there was a rivalry between SoCal and NorCal with many claiming they are vastly different, but I think that has largely faded now and we’re somewhat united in the belief that if nothing else the state would be strong holdout against the Trumpism plague. That’s not to say we don’t have Trump supporters here, but they are far outnumbered by those who loath Trump and Trumpism. And if the entire experiment of the US implodes, CA has one of the world’s largest and diverse economies. There’s also comfort in that.


----------



## Renzatic

Eric said:


> And now? Asking for a friend.




I turned black last week.


----------



## Joe

Renzatic said:


> I turned black last week.




I'm black below the waist.


----------



## Joe

Every state has pros and cons. I can afford my own home in Texas. Almost everyone I know in CommieFornia has roommates and rents. On the other hand, we may freeze once per year lol


----------



## MEJHarrison

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Before Trump there was a rivalry between SoCal and NorCal with many claiming they are vastly different...




As I was typing my earlier message, I was reminded how northern CA is far superior to southern CA in my opinion.  There's mountains and trees and water.  Then I thought of the wildfire situation and drought in recent years.  Also, I don't think I'd fit in quite as well in northern CA.  I think the people that think like me would be found in the larger cities, not with country bumpkins.  I don't think I'm interested in living in any part of CA at this point in time.  

The one place I would like to move to if I had to leave OR is Aurora CO.  I spent a few weeks there about 20 years ago and loved the place.  But the cops and other knuckleheads keep screwing that plan up.  That place is in the news WAY too much.


----------



## Herdfan

JagRunner said:


> LOL, I have nothing against California. I was making a joke because that is what Republicans call it. Dang, some of y'all are so easily offended. SMH




No we don't. We call it the People's Republic of California (PRC). 

Actually that is what my buddy who lives in Torrance calls it.  



Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I also think that when you have a “job” where every penny spent is coming out of your personal profit, then yeah, you are probably going to be hyper aware of taxes and money costing regulations.  You’d probably spend a good part of your time trying to figure out how to avoid paying them. Most people don’t have a job where micromanaging their personal wealth is a large part of it. There are all kinds of degrees to which you could do your job better or worse and it would have zero effect on your paycheck.




Absolutely.  I wish more people paid attention because it ends up costing them as well, just not directly.  Usually more.

Here is a simple example.  The NEC (National Electric Code) require 2 ground rods for a residence.  A city here requires 3 and they have no good justification for it (except Sparky's who come into the city to work not knowing this little extra requirement get to pay a reinspection fee).  An 8' copper ground rod is around $70 depending on the price of copper.  I will charge $199 to install it and I make sure to line item it separately and document why it is needed so people know what the city is up to.

Now someone will say "Why not just charge the $70?  You're gouging!  Well, I fronted the money for it, I had to pay a guy to install it (try hammering an 8' rod into rocky soil, even with a hammer drill), I had to use a third clamp and another 16+' of #4 copper wire ($2+/ft.).  So by the time it is all said and done, I might make $40-50 off of it.  But the homeowner had to pay an extra $199 for not one iota of extra safety.


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## Joe

Herdfan said:


> No we don't. We call it the People's Republic of California (PRC).




Everyone in Texas calls it CommieFornia. I guess it depends on location lol


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## Edd

JagRunner said:


> Every state has pros and cons. I can afford my own home in Texas. Almost everyone I know in CommieFornia has roommates and rents. On the other hand, we may freeze once per year lol



The term CommieFornia is really funny because it ignores what Communists are and misinforms people


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