# Any Boat Owners?



## AG_PhamD

Okay, a suppose this is a different type of garage than cars, but it seemed like the most appropriate thread. 

I’m curious if we have any boat owners here. What do you have? How do you like it? 

I grew up with my parents owning several boats, 2 Grady Whites, a Catalina 35’ sailboat for many years, and most recently a 2014 Sailfish 270 WAC- sold in 2020 due to awful fishing in Long Island sound due to climate change (plus they weren’t much in love with the boat). 

My wife and I have been looking into buying a sailboat, with the intention of someday doing some bluewater sailing (ie Bermuda, down the Caribbean). Ideally a 44-50ft monohull with all the equipment and safety for offshore sailing. Given our schedules at the moment, we might start with something smaller and more designed for weekend sailing- less complexity to maintain, cheaper to dock, etc.


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## Herdfan

You know what they say about boats:  Two happiest days are when you buy it and when you sell it. 

I also grew up with boats, mainly my dad's bass boats.  The one nice thing about them though is they have a great power/weight ratio.  They would pull a skier and a tuber better than any of the Four Winns or Bayliner's my friend's had.  

When my parents retired, they bought a lake house.  So I bought a boat that I liked: a nice Formula with a big ass motor.  Lasted a year.  While it was a sweet boat, it wasn't a good lake boat with 10 people on it.  Traded it on a 24' Hurricane deck boat and had it for 15 years.  It was sold with the house.

I love boats, I just hate all you have to do to keep them ready to go.

When the lake house sold, we bought a SXS to take the place of something to ride and quite frankly, we enjoy it more.


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## Eric

Herdfan said:


> *You know what they say about boats:  Two happiest days are when you buy it and when you sell it.*
> 
> I also grew up with boats, mainly my dad's bass boats.  The one nice thing about them though is they have a great power/weight ratio.  They would pull a skier and a tuber better than any of the Four Winns or Bayliner's my friend's had.
> 
> When my parents retired, they bought a lake house.  So I bought a boat that I liked: a nice Formula with a big ass motor.  Lasted a year.  While it was a sweet boat, it wasn't a good lake boat with 10 people on it.  Traded it on a 24' Hurricane deck boat and had it for 15 years.  It was sold with the house.
> 
> I love boats, I just hate all you have to do to keep them ready to go.
> 
> When the lake house sold, we bought a SXS to take the place of something to ride and quite frankly, we enjoy it more.



This couldn't be more true about our experience with a new RV many years ago, it takes a lot of effort to store, maintain and planning to use it. It's better when you know someone with a boat or RV lol.


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## AG_PhamD

Herdfan said:


> You know what they say about boats:  Two happiest days are when you buy it and when you sell it.
> 
> I also grew up with boats, mainly my dad's bass boats.  The one nice thing about them though is they have a great power/weight ratio.  They would pull a skier and a tuber better than any of the Four Winns or Bayliner's my friend's had.
> 
> When my parents retired, they bought a lake house.  So I bought a boat that I liked: a nice Formula with a big ass motor.  Lasted a year.  While it was a sweet boat, it wasn't a good lake boat with 10 people on it.  Traded it on a 24' Hurricane deck boat and had it for 15 years.  It was sold with the house.
> 
> I love boats, I just hate all you have to do to keep them ready to go.
> 
> When the lake house sold, we bought a SXS to take the place of something to ride and quite frankly, we enjoy it more.




Haha, yes, I’m well aware of that old expression. They are definitely a lot of work and money to maintain. But I think it’ll be worth it for the enjoyment they bring, at least at this point in my life. Plus, we live in a Condo so it’s not like we have to deal with the maintenance of a house. 

A Formula to a deck boat, that’s quite the shift! I suppose if you’re entertaining the latter is the more practical choice.

I will say growing up with the Grady’s with I/O engines and then having the Sailfish with outboards (2x Yamaha 150’s), the maintenance with outboards is so much better. Plus Yamaha makes fantastic engine. No giant through holes in the transom, no complicated I/O drive nonsense, no crawling into the tiny engine bay. Worst case you pull the engine off. You also get a lot more space not having that giant engine box. The Sailfish was 27ft and honestly felt bigger than


I should also mention my wife’s parents have an Outremer Catamaran- 48ft IIRC. Cats are super practical, but I’m not that into them. Plus they’re way more expensive than monohulls. I will say it’s a beautiful boat, absurdly efficient (i.e. sailing 9knts in 10knts of wind) and super fast. It would be nice if they didn’t keep it on Nantucket so we could use it more often. In my fathers words “the best boat to sail is the one you don’t own”.


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## Herdfan

AG_PhamD said:


> A Formula to a deck boat, that’s quite the shift! I suppose if you’re entertaining the latter is the more practical choice.
> 
> I will say growing up with the Grady’s with I/O engines and then having the Sailfish with outboards (2x Yamaha 150’s), the maintenance with outboards is so much better. Plus Yamaha makes fantastic engine. No giant through holes in the transom, no complicated I/O drive nonsense, no crawling into the tiny engine bay. Worst case you pull the engine off. You also get a lot more space not having that giant engine box. The Sailfish was 27ft and honestly felt bigger than




When we got the Formula, our daughter was very young.  But we soon realized that more than 4 people on it was crowded.  Plus, that 454 sucked gas like it was free.  The one mistake I made was going with the I/O.  Very hard to work on.  A couple of years in I almost traded it for an outboard but we decided that a covered engine would be safer with young kids.  Heard good things about Yamaha's, but never had one.  Grew up loving the look of Mercury's so that is where I tended to veer to.  Dad had a bass boat with a 225 Suzuki and it never gave him any trouble.

The price of boats has gotten out of hand.  Went to a boat show last spring and they had a pontoon for over $100K.  A pontoon!!!!


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## AG_PhamD

Herdfan said:


> When we got the Formula, our daughter was very young.  But we soon realized that more than 4 people on it was crowded.  Plus, that 454 sucked gas like it was free.  The one mistake I made was going with the I/O.  Very hard to work on.  A couple of years in I almost traded it for an outboard but we decided that a covered engine would be safer with young kids.  Heard good things about Yamaha's, but never had one.  Grew up loving the look of Mercury's so that is where I tended to veer to.  Dad had a bass boat with a 225 Suzuki and it never gave him any trouble.
> 
> The price of boats has gotten out of hand.  Went to a boat show last spring and they had a pontoon for over $100K.  A pontoon!!!!




There’s a reason no one makes I/O’s anymore. Haha. For most power boats  outboards are what people are going with. Now that they can cram V8’s and V12’s into outboards house see boats as big as 50-60ft with several outboards slapped across the stern. 

A lot of modern sailboats have switched to sail drives have switched to sail drives. So the output shaft comes out of the boat vertically and the transmission is basically underwater, outside of the boat. It’s more efficient and reduces asymmetric thrust, but I think it’s actually become so ubiquitous because it’s cheaper and allows the engine to be pushed back further allowing for more interior room. I’m not a fan considering salt water can potentially leak into the transmission and it requires a 8-9”+ hole in the hull. They’re also not as reliable as a normal shaft drive. My in-laws catamaran has them and they’ve had chronic water seepage on one of them.  

In the 5 or so years of owning the Yamahas my parents never had a major issue. And they always started on the first turn of the key, even after sitting for the winter. 

Wow! $100k for a pontoon boat? I hope those pontoons are made of platinum. Why would you spend that much money on a pontoon boat when you could buy a much more legitimate boat? 

Buying a brand new boat in my mind is rather silly. It’s not like you’re getting much of a warranty and warranties on boats are generally a nightmare, especially when it’s equipment made by a 3rd party. I’d rather save myself 30-50% a buy a boat that’s slightly older but has a thorough history.


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## Herdfan

AG_PhamD said:


> A lot of modern sailboats have switched to sail drives have switched to sail drives. So the output shaft comes out of the boat vertically and the transmission is basically underwater, outside of the boat. It’s more efficient and reduces asymmetric thrust, but I think it’s actually become so ubiquitous because it’s cheaper and allows the engine to be pushed back further allowing for more interior room.




Most modern cruise ships use a form of this.  They call them azipods.   But they contain electric motors vs transmissions.

Are the ones on sailboats steerable.  That was the main benefit for cruise ships as they can act like a set of stern thrusters.


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## AG_PhamD

Herdfan said:


> Most modern cruise ships use a form of this.  They call them azipods.   But they contain electric motors vs transmissions.
> 
> Are the ones on sailboats steerable.  That was the main benefit for cruise ships as they can act like a set of stern thrusters.




The azipods are also found on tugboats and other large ships and can be electric or mechanically driven by the engines.

Similar idea I suppose- though saildrives are more like the bottom half of a conventional outboard suck through the hull of the boat. But propeller does not move to steer the boat, there is still a rudder for that.

Volvo also has a weird system that’s basically a forward facing stern drive that pulls the boat through the water with contra-rotating props. I’d think this would make your props even more susceptible to damage and cut all lot more lobster pot lines.

There is actually something more similar to azipods for recreational boats call pod drives- Volvo IPS was the big one. Basically a miniature mechanically powered azipod. Or basically a sail drive that could rotate to turn the boat. I think these only work if you have at least two, most sailboats don’t have two engines and these probably create a lot of drag, so probably we’re reserved for powerboats.

I think these fell out of favor quickly 1. Because IPS was extremely unreliable and expensive and complicated to fix. And 2: There are new outboards though with steerable propellers that make tight maneuvering very easy and can actually be programmed to keep the boat stationary, automatically hold a gps coordinate.

Interestingly Volvo Penta engines seem to have nearly disappeared on new sailboats. Up until recently the market share was like 50/50 Volvo/Yanmar. Now every new boat I see has a Yanmar. Even brands that religiously used Volvo in the past. I think they had a lot of reliability issues in the not so distant past.

On land or at sea, the Japanese know how to make a great engine.


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## Edd

I joined a boat club last summer. Doing it this summer also and then hopefully back to regular traveling the following year. It mostly consist of riding 24’ bow riders off the coast of NH. I’m competent to do that real sailing is way beyond me.


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## DT

Herdfan said:


> I also grew up with boats [...]




Same.  I've always lived near the coast, I've spent a decent amount of time offshore, knocking around in the intracoastal - decks, DCs, lots of center consoles (my Dad had a 23' Seabird, deep vee hull, it would eat up the big swells), I've had some time on sailboats, we have two friends, one lives full time on a sail, the other has a beautiful restoration, we occasionally meet him/them for drinks on their vessel.

I've been on a Hatteras, a Bertram, had a family friend that was a reseller for Whaler and Grady-White (went on some tournament fishing events with him).

We had a 20' DC Hydra-Sports, it was fun on occasion but not used enough so we sold it (to the family dealer friend I mentioned above).  We talk about getting another boat, just a smaller bowrider for the intracoastal, like a 17-18' deck boat, with a tow setup, something around 3000 lbs total tow weight that's easy to launch.  Our next 1-2 years is a bit up the air, so who knows


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## AG_PhamD

Edd said:


> I joined a boat club last summer. Doing it this summer also and then hopefully back to regular traveling the following year. It mostly consist of riding 24’ bow riders off the coast of NH. I’m competent to do that real sailing is way beyond me.




These are an interesting prospect. My godfather did this for several years but ended up buying a Boston Whaler.  I think the factor was he wanted a nicer boat than what was available and didn’t want to deal with reservations during peak times. 

Given my schedule currently, it might be looking into further. On the other hand, I know one sailing club here in Boston wants $7000/yr for access to a 30ft boat worth probably worth $35-50k. No dock fees, maintenance, insurance I presume, etc though.  



DT said:


> Same.  I've always lived near the coast, I've spent a decent amount of time offshore, knocking around in the intracoastal - decks, DCs, lots of center consoles (my Dad had a 23' Seabird, deep vee hull, it would eat up the big swells), I've had some time on sailboats, we have two friends, one lives full time on a sail, the other has a beautiful restoration, we occasionally meet him/them for drinks on their vessel.
> 
> I've been on a Hatteras, a Bertram, had a family friend that was a reseller for Whaler and Grady-White (went on some tournament fishing events with him).
> 
> We had a 20' DC Hydra-Sports, it was fun on occasion but not used enough so we sold it (to the family dealer friend I mentioned above).  We talk about getting another boat, just a smaller bowrider for the intracoastal, like a 17-18' deck boat, with a tow setup, something around 3000 lbs total tow weight that's easy to launch.  Our next 1-2 years is a bit up the air, so who knows




Do you know what kind of boat the live-aboard has? 

I love fishing, for which a power boat is obviously ideal, but being able to go out on the water, not have to listen to the roar of engines, and relax with friends is what I’m looking forward to. 

Mmmm… Pursuit. Those are beautiful boats. One of my favorites in terms of sport fishing boats.


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## DT

AG_PhamD said:


> Do you know what kind of boat the live-aboard has?
> 
> I love fishing, for which a power boat is obviously ideal, but being able to go out on the water, not have to listen to the roar of engines, and relax with friends is what I’m looking forward to.
> 
> Mmmm… Pursuit. Those are beautiful boats. One of my favorites in terms of sport fishing boats.





Yes!  They have a Pearson 385, our other friends have sailboat manufactured by Ta Shing (originally Shing Sheng) out of Taiwan, early 80's I believe, it's really beautiful, looks new.

The folks with the Pearson used all electric/battery to keep noise down too, especially in the evening to run power (vs. running a generator), even their dingy has a small, electric outboard.


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## lizkat

One of my kin was quite a sailor, owned a 68' wooden yawl built in the 1930s,  developed his crew over the years in the Block Island races, and even sailed a few times in the Bermuda.

I had fun with those guys a few summers, just sailing along the coast to Maine,  but it was also from them that I learned the downhome truth that a boat, no matter how lovingly restored or cared for, always remains a deep hole in the water surrounded by a whole lot of money.


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## AG_PhamD

DT said:


> Yes!  They have a Pearson 385, our other friends have sailboat manufactured by Ta Shing (originally Shing Sheng) out of Taiwan, early 80's I believe, it's really beautiful, looks new.
> 
> The folks with the Pearson used all electric/battery to keep noise down too, especially in the evening to run power (vs. running a generator), even their dingy has a small, electric outboard.





DT said:


> Yes!  They have a Pearson 385, our other friends have sailboat manufactured by Ta Shing (originally Shing Sheng) out of Taiwan, early 80's I believe, it's really beautiful, looks new.
> 
> The folks with the Pearson used all electric/battery to keep noise down too, especially in the evening to run power (vs. running a generator), even their dingy has a small, electric outboard.




Nice! Pearsons are a classic and quality built boats. I just looked up the 385- looks like a great layout. 38ft center cockpit with 2 heads and a stall shower is pretty incredible packaging. Especially for the 80’s. 

High output alternators + Solar + Lithium definitely seems like the way to go, if you can get your power needs handled. Having to deal with the maintenance of an extra Diesel engine alone is a PITA.

My dream boat would probably be an Oyster or Discovery- they’re quite expensive though and there aren’t many on the second hand market- and those that do exist tend to be in Europe. 

My dream boat is either an Oyster, Discovery, or this niche brand called Kraken- but they are extremely expensive and not easy to find. A similar yet more affordable option to Oyster are Hylas’. I looked at several this past summer, including flying down to NC to checkout a Hylas 49’ that I came very close to pulling the trigger on. Ultimately the seller wanted more than what my broker and I thought was reasonable. Two of the others were 54’, very nice boats, but too big IMO. The used boat market like cars and houses has been a bit crazy lately, though there are signs things are getting more reasonable. 

We’re debating buying the boat we’d ideally like to own (45-50ft blue water capable) vs. something less expensive   thats more in line our current needs (35-40ft coastal cruiser). It’s a lot more expensive to buy and maintain the former, but at the same time boats depreciate and are $$$ to maintain, so is it better off to just buy the boat that fulfills our longterm goals and get to know it inside and out.


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## DT

For us, we determined that being -  call it - a casual owner, wasn't  great.  You have to really be all in, commit to using it often, run it, maintain it, get your money's worth.  Our friends who boat, do it constantly, even to the point (like I mentioned above) to living on one, part or full time.

Heck, we have a ramp right in our neighborhood, it's 4 blocks away, I'm not sure what our excuse was


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## DT

Well, we've been discussing staying where we're at for at least the next 4 years, there's been some talk about NOT doing that, which is a whole separate post - but, if we do commit, I think we're going to get another boat, everyone is into it, especially the daughter, as I mentioned above we've got a nice ramp 6 blocks from the house (and another 3 within 7-8 miles), a 17-18' deck boat, nicely setup, just something midline like an Element or Tahoe, under 3000# so an easy tow for the Wrangler.


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## lizkat

Blue water craft are definitely holes in the water perpetually surrounded by a pile of dough.  You have to be all in and stay that way for the investment not to become both a headache AND an eventual loss.,     Fun in the meantime though at least for carefree kin and friends invited aboard!


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## Herdfan

DT said:


> Well, we've been discussing staying where we're at for at least the next 4 years, there's been some talk about NOT doing that, which is a whole separate post - but, if we do commit, I think we're going to get another boat, everyone is into it, especially the daughter, as I mentioned above we've got a nice ramp 6 blocks from the house (and another 3 within 7-8 miles), a 17-18' deck boat, nicely setup, just something midline like an Element or Tahoe, under 3000# so an easy tow for the Wrangler.



Outboard or I/O?


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## Edd

So we've decided we're loving the boat club too much so continuing on for next year most likely. Our 2 year contract is up this April so, if they want to raise rates too much (strong possibility), there's a minor chance we'll bail.  We'll scrape $ together to keep traveling.  Got an epic Mexico trip planned for next month; can't stop thinking about it.


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## DT

Herdfan said:


> Outboard or I/O?




Outboard.  The E18 has a 90 standard Yamaha 4-stroke, then an option for a 115 Yamaha, and a top-of-the-line factory option for a 115 Yamaha Pro XS.

Knowing my love for performance cars, you can probably guess the motor option I'd choose   Plus, it doesn't add much cost, very little weight difference, etc., at the point you're spending X  it doesn't really make a difference.


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## Herdfan

DT said:


> Outboard.  The E18 has a 90 standard Yamaha 4-stroke, then an option for a 115 Yamaha, and a top-of-the-line factory option for a 115 Yamaha Pro XS.
> 
> Knowing my love for performance cars, you can probably guess the motor option I'd choose   Plus, it doesn't add much cost, very little weight difference, etc., at the point you're spending X  it doesn't really make a difference.




Good choice.  I will never own another I/O.  Too much trouble for a little bit of aesthetics.  

But with the move to the desert owning another boat is way down the list of probabilities.


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## DT

This would be for just knocking around in the intracoastal, maybe a short trip to a lake, the hull design on the Element isn't a very deep V, so it's not designed to handle a lot of chop, but to plane easy, handle pretty good, have decent deck space.

I really like how the rear swim decks are setup, this is with a full tow config:


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## AG_PhamD

DT said:


> Outboard.  The E18 has a 90 standard Yamaha 4-stroke, then an option for a 115 Yamaha, and a top-of-the-line factory option for a 115 Yamaha Pro XS.
> 
> Knowing my love for performance cars, you can probably guess the motor option I'd choose   Plus, it doesn't add much cost, very little weight difference, etc., at the point you're spending X  it doesn't really make a difference.




Outboard is definitely the way to go. You hardly see any newer boats with them. Despite outboards being compact they’re much easier to work on considering you can easily remove the entire unit and fix it on land, rather than crawling into an engine bay. Probably less of a concern since it sounds like you’ll be trailering the boat, but the latter point still stands. Plus outboards tend to be substantially more fuel efficient. Less drag, fuel less weight, etc. I suppose the biggest con in your situation is just how expensive they are. 

My dad’s last boat had dual 4 stroke Yamaha 150’s IIRC. They were great engines and besides routine maintenance ran flawlessly. 

My grandfather recently died and now we are trying to get rid of his boat. I believe it’s an mid-90’s Four Winns somewhere around 20ft bow rider with an V8 I/O. It was hardly ever used. I have no interest in keeping it. We’re trying to give it away to his GF’s son who is the only person who used it in the past 10+ years but he only wants it if we’ll keep it my grandfather’s beach house which we are keeping. But I don’t really want to deal with that. I can’t imagine it’s worth more than like $10k.  If we don’t work out a deal with this guy @D.T. you’re more than welcome to drive up to RI and take it away if you want it. 

He also left behind his 2002 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 manual with 46,000 miles in remarkable condition. Probably the lowest mileage Tacoma in the world of that vintage. That will staying in the family but I’m so curious to see what that would fetch at auction.


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## DT

Hmmm ...







It'll be nice - assuming this is a thing we do - starting with a brand new boat.  The last one was low use, low hours, I want to say an early 2000s, but without having been used, and having a lot of old wiring, gaskets, hydraulics, etc., it was always something, plus a dated motor design.  The new Yamaha, Honda, Mercury motors are just buttery smooth.

That Tacoma is nuts, that mix of age + mileage, it would probably fetch a shocking amount.  I hit a couple of car sites, and 2002s with 125K-175K miles are listed for $10K - $15K


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## AG_PhamD

DT said:


> Hmmm ...
> 
> View attachment 16818
> 
> 
> 
> It'll be nice - assuming this is a thing we do - starting with a brand new boat.  The last one was low use, low hours, I want to say an early 2000s, but without having been used, and having a lot of old wiring, gaskets, hydraulics, etc., it was always something, plus a dated motor design.  The new Yamaha, Honda, Mercury motors are just buttery smooth.
> 
> That Tacoma is nuts, that mix of age + mileage, it would probably fetch a shocking amount.  I hit a couple of car sites, and 2002s with 125K-175K miles are listed for $10K - $15K




Yeah, I don’t blame you for wanting a newer boat. There’s a lot that can go wrong and it’s inevitably an expensive PITA to fix. That’s part of the reason I’d prefer to give it away than sell it. Despite my grandfathers obsessive maintenance philosophy, the thing was probably used at most 1-2x a year and probably not in the past 1-2 years, who knows what will happen if it actually gets some routine use.

There was a similar 4Runner on C&B with under 30k that sold for $26k a while back. Every Taco from that era either have 200k and/or are completely trashed. So this is a diamond in the rough. I took it to the dealer a couple weekends ago and the service manager was shocked.


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## DT

Looks like in the same price area, a Tahoe T18 is a better option.  The '23 models have a nice integrated LCD touch screen for instrumentation, better steering, really nice finish in the storage bins (smooth gel vs. unfinished fiberglass, a nice step through design from the rear, dive decks, nice trailer (galvanised and powder coated), a lot of the same, a 115HP Yamaha XS as the TOTL engine option.

But the biggest difference:  the Tahoe has a deeper V-hull vs. the M-hull in the Element, the latter will lead to a decent amount of bounce in small chop, and be a little less nimble on hard turns.


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## DT

I can't believe how excited the daughter is about this possible-but-likely purchase.  I think her early memories were informed by spending a lot of time with our friends on their boat, or down in The Keys on a boat just about every day.

I'm in don't-care--whatever-it-takes mode, I want her to have this opportunity, I mean it's not like we'll always be able to own one, or I'll be able to manage one, or be around or whatever, just seems like perfect timing.


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## Herdfan

DT said:


> I can't believe how excited the daughter is about this possible-but-likely purchase.  I think her early memories were informed by spending a lot of time with our friends on their boat, or down in The Keys on a boat just about every day.
> 
> I'm in don't-care--whatever-it-takes mode, I want her to have this opportunity, I mean it's not like we'll always be able to own one, or I'll be able to manage one, or be around or whatever, just seems like perfect timing.




I have always been a big proponent of providing experiences & memories for kids vs "stuff", but in this case, the stuff leads to experiences and memories.


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## AG_PhamD

DT said:


> I can't believe how excited the daughter is about this possible-but-likely purchase.  I think her early memories were informed by spending a lot of time with our friends on their boat, or down in The Keys on a boat just about every day.
> 
> I'm in don't-care--whatever-it-takes mode, I want her to have this opportunity, I mean it's not like we'll always be able to own one, or I'll be able to manage one, or be around or whatever, just seems like perfect timing.



IIRC you’re daughter is still a ways off from being a teenager? 7-10 years old? Seems like a great age where she is old enough to be able to remember and value the experience spent with her family and friends out on the water. While still young enough not to consumed with may of the social, academic, and extra-curricular obligations that come about in one’s teenage years. I have fond memories spending time on the water, fishing in Long Island Sound, with my dad, uncle, siblings, and cousins.

I’m getting to the point in life where I need to figure out my work-life balance. I literally work like 60-70hrs a week between my normal job and my other business. My wife only relatively recently wrapped up her cardiology qualifications and is working office hours in private practice. While I enjoy my work, I would like to have some more personal time and enjoy the fruits of my labor. The conundrum is find myself in is wanting to invest in a boat but realizing I have such little time to actually use it. 

A few weeks ago I looked at a Catalina 35… much more of a coastal cruiser/weekend sailing type boat. While not a blue water boat, it’s a lot less complicated and easier to maintain- not to mention a fraction of the price. It has a lot of features we like except I’d probably like something a little more performance if we’re going for a weekend type boat. That said, the size is a quite bit more manageable without sacrificing too much in terms of comfort.


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## DT

@AG_PhamD 

She's 14 and started high school this year, 9th grade.      But she still wants to hang out with us   Her academics are tough, she's got college credit courses, including Chemistry, Algebra II, she's already in a couple of clubs (today is Astronomy), but we want to make sure she has balance as well (that's why last year we even took off a few days over the year, not an actual school holiday, no reason other than to have a long weekend).

Definitely start sooner than later, engineering a future that's less work, more time for life, it sneaks up on you!


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## AG_PhamD

DT said:


> @AG_PhamD
> 
> She's 14 and started high school this year, 9th grade.      But she still wants to hang out with us   Her academics are tough, she's got college credit courses, including Chemistry, Algebra II, she's already in a couple of clubs (today is Astronomy), but we want to make sure she has balance as well (that's why last year we even took off a few days over the year, not an actual school holiday, no reason other than to have a long weekend).
> 
> Definitely start sooner than later, engineering a future that's less work, more time for life, it sneaks up on you!




I guess I was totally off haha- I was thinking more like 10 minutes years old.  But there’s still plenty of time at 14 as opposed to say, 18. Though I’m sure 18 will be here before you know it. That’s awesome your daughter still wants to hang out with her Dad. I think that speaks to her level of advanced maturity.

I’m definitely in agreement with @Huntn, it’s best to invest in experiences rather than “stuff” (unless that “stuff” is a means to creating experiences). 

My wife and I are definitely at that point where we’re thinking a lot about our future. I wouldn’t say we’re running out of time to have kids, but we’re definitely not getting any younger. She only recently wrapped up her cardiology qualifications and landed her “first job” (as I call it) working office hours in a private practice. If we do have kids we’d prefer to be in a  position where our lives don’t revolve entirely around our careers.


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## Herdfan

This is a great song by Trace Adkins describing experiences:


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## DT

AG_PhamD said:


> I guess I was totally off haha- I was thinking more like 10 minutes years old.  But there’s still plenty of time at 14 as opposed to say, 18. Though I’m sure 18 will be here before you know it. That’s awesome your daughter still wants to hang out with her Dad. I think that speaks to her level of advanced maturity.
> 
> I’m definitely in agreement with @Huntn, it’s best to invest in experiences rather than “stuff” (unless that “stuff” is a means to creating experiences).
> 
> My wife and I are definitely at that point where we’re thinking a lot about our future. I wouldn’t say we’re running out of time to have kids, but we’re definitely not getting any younger. She only recently wrapped up her cardiology qualifications and landed her “first job” (as I call it) working office hours in a private practice. If we do have kids we’d prefer to be in a  position where our lives don’t revolve entirely around our careers.




Yeah, if you read some of my recent posts, I've talked specifically about the next 4 years, her 14-18/9-12th grade, taking a move off the table, making use of this beautiful location, because when she graduates, that's probably the time to downsize, really rethink things.

We've been purging "stuff" for some time now, simplifying things too, even when I went from AVR/speakers/amps/etc., to a Sonos, that was partially to make it simpler, reduce the footprint.   Hahaha, I get that a boat is adding a thing, that requires effort, maintenance - but, it's to facilitate experience.

I believe I was a decent amount older than you are now, when we had our first-and-only.  The downside is being older, but we timed it pretty good, like I won't quite have one foot in the grave when she would start college


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## Huntn

You’ve heard the joke about the best two days of your life? 

I’ve considered, but never owned a boat. Imo, the only viable option Imo is to have a boat sitting outback, tied to your dock, or very close by sitting in the water,  waiting to be hopped in and taking off in it. No trailers required.


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## Edd

Huntn said:


> You’ve heard the joke about the best two days of your life?
> 
> I’ve considered, but never owned a boat. Imo, the only viable option Imo is to have a boat sitting outback, on your dock, or very close by sitting in the water,  waiting to be hopped in and taking off in it. No trailers required.



Yes, the trailer thing is an extra level of drama I haven't had to mess with. I've heard it can be a good time to set up a camping chair with a few drinks near a boat launch on a busy day; watch the hijinks play out.


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## DT

Huntn said:


> You’ve heard the joke about the best two days of your life?




Hahaha, well, that can definitely be the case for some, maybe even many!

This would be my 3rd, my Dad had two (my first was his last),  there are a lot of people who buy a boat, that shouldn't own a boat 




Edd said:


> Yes, the trailer thing is an extra level of drama I haven't had to mess with. I've heard it can be a good time to set up a camping chair with a few drinks near a boat launch on a busy day; watch the hijinks play out.




It can be for sure, and some people can't even grasp backing up a trailer ("Wait, so it goes the opposite way I turn?!?!" )  There's a lot of folks who are towing too much / using a severely underspec'ed vehicle, are dealing with  poorly maintained ramp (or a really difficult ramp with a steep incline, bad dock access), or they boat 2-3 times a year, never get the flow.

Seriously the guy across the street, can come home, hitch up, get down the ramp, launch, park and almost beat me in my car to the bridge 2 miles away


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## AG_PhamD

DT said:


> Yeah, if you read some of my recent posts, I've talked specifically about the next 4 years, her 14-18/9-12th grade, taking a move off the table, making use of this beautiful location, because when she graduates, that's probably the time to downsize, really rethink things.
> 
> We've been purging "stuff" for some time now, simplifying things too, even when I went from AVR/speakers/amps/etc., to a Sonos, that was partially to make it simpler, reduce the footprint.   Hahaha, I get that a boat is adding a thing, that requires effort, maintenance - but, it's to facilitate experience.
> 
> I believe I was a decent amount older than you are now, when we had our first-and-only.  The downside is being older, but we timed it pretty good, like I won't quite have one foot in the grave when she would start college




Yeah, I haven’t seen those posts but I have seen your pictures. You are in a beautiful spot. Where are you looking to move. Moving a kid  in high school (assuming to another district) isn’t the easiest task. As someone who went from private Jewish day school until 8th grade, to public school for the first 2 years of HS, to a prep school for the last 2, it’s not the best experience. Granted I lived in the same town the entire time so I knew plenty of my classmates at the public school via other means and when I went to private school I knew some people there, so it was a relatively smooth transition.

Well, I’m almost 35. My wife is a year younger. 36+ is considered a “geriatric pregnancy”. Granted births between 35-40 are quite common now and even women birthing in their 40’s is more common than ever. Obviously older the mother is the higher the risk, but many of those are manageable. My wife is in excellent health and manages to run 4 miles per everyday, so that can’t hurt our chances. I can’t imagine being 60 when my kid is 20, but I also can’t imagine having a kid in the near future either. I still feel like I’m 16 years old half the time (and 21 the other half haha). When I was in second grade (age 8?) there was a kid in my class whose dad was 66! I assume his mother was considerably younger. Chances are by this point he’s no longer with us. I can’t imagine not having a father in my early-mid 20’s (or similarly not being there for my kid in his/her 20’s).



Huntn said:


> You’ve heard the joke about the best two days of your life?
> 
> I’ve considered, but never owned a boat. Imo, the only viable option Imo is to have a boat sitting outback, on your dock, or very close by sitting in the water,  waiting to be hopped in and taking off in it. No trailers required.




Boat trailering sucks but it sure makes maintaining it much, much easier. Especially if you’re in a warm water climate where crap grows quickly on the hull. Not also having to spend a boatload (no pun intended) and deal with the logistics for a haul out every time you need to deal with something on the bottom of the boat is also nice.

What’s cool are those boat lifts people have at their docks where they can easily hoist the boat out of the water when they’re not in use.

I imagine there are some size/weight/boat style limitations, frankly I’ve never seen such a large boat like picture #3 below. I can’t imagine these are cheap but probably pay for themselves avoiding the hassle of towing and boat ramps not to mention maintenance.











Or if you really have an unlimited budget you could be like the Coast Guard in the UK with one of these slipways to launch and retrieve your 54ft boat:







Here you don’t even have to worry about your boat being rained on, birds pooping on it, UV damage, lightening strikes, floods, hurricanes, rodents, theft, seals sleeping on your swim platform, etc.

Speaking of which, my dad’s boat was in the water at a marina leading up to Hurricane Sandy (on the CT coast, bordering RI, directly across the sound from Montauk, Long Island- in proximity to CT’s Submarine base). As you may recall, Sandy decimated NYC. So when it became apparent Sandy was heading directly for the area, my dad called up the marina to haul the boat out… along with everyone else along the NY/CT/RI coast. He was told the cranes/hoists were completely booked, they were working OT to get as many boats out, and they’d be unlikely to accommodate him. Plus they were running out of space to even put boats on their property.

So my dad tied up the boat extra well and crossed his fingers. It turns out despite the largest hurricane to hit the northeast in history (and I assume the most damaging and deadly), his boat survived just fine- not so much as a scratch. Meanwhile, some of the boats on land propped up on jack stands and wooden braces blew over, creating a domino effect of boats falling on top of another, damaging dozens of boats.

I suppose the lesson is that being on land isn’t necessarily safer


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## DT

AG_PhamD said:


> Yeah, I haven’t seen those posts but I have seen your pictures. You are in a beautiful spot. Where are you looking to move. Moving a kid  in high school (assuming to another district) isn’t the easiest task. As someone who went from private Jewish day school until 8th grade, to public school for the first 2 years of HS, to a prep school for the last 2, it’s not the best experience. Granted I lived in the same town the entire time so I knew plenty of my classmates at the public school via other means and when I went to private school I knew some people there, so it was a relatively smooth transition.




Oh, we knocked around some cities, Pittsburgh (wife's hometown/still have family there), up on Mount Washington, some beautiful condos that overlook the city, the DC area, where as I'm sure you know, a $1 doesn't go very far (in terms of housing),  but moving her would've been difficult, she's very aware too, we've had these conversations with her, she's in the same place we are:  let's make use of our current circumstances, finish school with the people she started with, and just re-evaluate everything in 4 years.




AG_PhamD said:


> Well, I’m almost 35. My wife is a year younger. 36+ is considered a “geriatric pregnancy”. Granted births between 35-40 are quite common now and even women birthing in their 40’s is more common than ever. Obviously older the mother is the higher the risk, but many of those are manageable. My wife is in excellent health and manages to run 4 miles per everyday, so that can’t hurt our chances. I can’t imagine being 60 when my kid is 20, but I also can’t imagine having a kid in the near future either. I still feel like I’m 16 years old half the time (and 21 the other half haha). When I was in second grade (age 8?) there was a kid in my class whose dad was 66! I assume his mother was considerably younger. Chances are by this point he’s no longer with us. I can’t imagine not having a father in my early-mid 20’s (or similarly not being there for my kid in his/her 20’s).




OK, that's actually right around the same age we said, "Let's do this" 

I totally get the age thing, i.e., 15 mentally, 50 chronologically and 75 physically ... 




AG_PhamD said:


> Boat trailering sucks but it sure makes maintaining it much, much easier. Especially if you’re in a warm water climate where crap grows quickly on the hull. Not also having to spend a boatload (no pun intended) and deal with the logistics for a haul out every time you need to deal with something on the bottom of the boat is also nice.





Well, now I need a Rivian R1T, so I can do this ...


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