# WWDC 2022: What was Announced WikiPost



## Cmaier

*iOS 16*​Rumors​_more social network Messages, notifications improvements, widgets on Lock Screen, interactive widgets, maybe some hint of always-on display (likely limited to the iPhone 14 family)_​Announcement​*Lock screen:* [*iPhone only*] New lock screen allows photos to occlude time.  Widgets  on lock screen.  Editable like complications on watchOS.​Press and hold to edit.​​


​Swipe to try styles, color filters, background, and font for the time (like watchOS).  Tap an element to pick fonts/colors.   Widget gallery allows adding widgets.  Temperature, battery, calendar, etc.  Can add multiple widgets.  Wallpaper gallery.  Photoshuffle allows shuffling backgrounds.  Suggested photos from library.  Create multiple lock screens and swipe between them (like WatchOS).  "Weather" background animates based on weather.   WidgetKit for developers.​​Widgets/photo can be tied to Focus, and lock screens can be tied to Focus state.​​*Notifications:* [*iPhone only*] roll in from bottom of lock screen.  Sort of like vertical cover flow.  Live Activities make it easy to stay on top of things that happen in real time.  Live Activities API for developers.  Like notification that continuously update instead of firing off multiple notifications.  Music Live Activities allow full screen view of album art.​​*Focus filters:*  filters tabs in safari, conversations in messages, accounts in mail and events in calendar.  Developer API.​​*Messages:*  editable! Undo send! Mark thread as unread.  "Shared with You" api for developers.   SharePlay interface/gallery in FaceTime app.  SharePlay extended to Messages.  (SharePlay button in share sheet).  Note: edit/unsend have 15 minute time limit.   Note: if you edit a message sent to someone without iOS 16, it may appear edited on your device but won’t on the recipients.  Unsent (i.e. deleted) messages produce a warning that recipient may still be able to read if they don’t have iOS 16.​​*Dictation:* All new on-device dictation, supports emoji. Keyboard stays open when dictating, allowing switching back and forth.  Select text using touch and replace using voice. Punctuation automatically added.  Mac and iPad as well, though hardware requirements vary.​​*Sir*i: developer API in swift - app intents, shortcuts work with zero setup. Not clear what this is about.​​*Live Text*: added to video. Pause a video on any frame and interact with text. Quick Actions - tap away from translating, converting currency, etc.  Can use live text in the Translate App with a new camera view.  Live Text API (very nice - every pdf app needs to use that!).  IPad and Mac, too, though hardware requirements vary.​​*Visual Lift and Move*: touch and hold and object in an image, lift from background, and place object in other apps. (Looks very fun for AR someday).  Mac and iPad, too. Source apps and hardware vary.​​*Wallet*: sharing keys using messaging apps.  (anybody actually able to use keys yet?)  Making keys an industry standard.​​*Apple Pay*: mention of tap-to-pay. "Pay Later" - spread into four payments over 6 weeks, no interest. Accepted wherever Apple Pay is accepted. No changes on backend required.  Order tracking! (Very nice) Shows information in wallet. Starting with shopify!​​*Maps*: 11 more countries for new maps. Adding Las Vegas.  Multistop routing (up to 15 in advance).  Previous routes stored in recents).  Transit: fares displayed.  Reload fare cards within Maps.  Mapkit developer support: allows developers to integrate detailed city experience.  Look Around coming to MapKit.  Brand new server-side apis. (that do what?)​​*Sports*: Live Activities (again) - scores and play by play on lock screen.  Apple News - follow teams and leagues in My Sports section, scores, schedules and standings included. Highlights, too.  Favorites synced with apple tv app.  US, UK, Canada and Australia.​​*Family Sharing*: easier to manage accounts for kids (sure).  New way to setup device for  kids, by selecting family member on setup.  Family Checklist - helpful tips.​​*Photos*: iCloud Shared Photo Library - automatically share to shared library with 5 people.  Can choose by start date, by people, everything, etc.  Can manually send photos, too.  Switch in camera to allow photos to go to shared library as you take them.  Can choose to have shared library shift enabled based on presence of people.  Everyone has equal permissions to add remove and edit.​​*Privacy*: Personal safety - safety check.  For abusive relationships, settings section that lets you quickly review and reset access you've granted others.​​*Home App*: more efficient and reliable.  Complete redesign. (About time).  Whole home in scrollable view. New categories for climate, lights, security, water, etc.  Tap on category, and see accessories and status by room.  4-camera view, with more scrollable.  Different accessories more visually distinct.​​*CarPlay*: redesigned.  Dashboard gauges.  (for second screen).  Deeper integration with car - change temperature, tune car radio, etc.  Widgets can live in gauge cluster (or CarPlay screen).  Entire instrument cluster powered by CarPlay.  Different personalization options (layouts, analog vs. digital, themes, styles, etc.)  Announcements "late next year."​​*AirPods spatial audio*: uses cameras somehow?​​*Quicknote*: coming to iOS​​More Memoji customizations​​Quicker updates (no need to update entire OS for security updates)​​Unannounced​On  some devices: Landscape Face ID​​In settings, you can now see your wifi passwords and delete wifi connections​​Optional haptics for the on-screen keyboard​​Cameras and Photos:​​Camera: in portrait and cinematic modes, you can blur the foreground, not just the background.​​Photos: find and delete duplicates.  Undo and redo edits.  Lock hidden and recently deleted photo albums. Copy and paste edits from one photo to another.​​​​Phone:​​Phone settings: can disable “lock phone to end call”​​E-SIM: when setting up a new phone, option to transfer an E-Sim from a nearby phone, without doing a restore. Not tested.​​If you have no signal, instead of seeing ”no signal” you see “SOS.” Not clear what this is for, since with no signal even emergency calls shouldn’t work - maybe an indication that iPhone 14 will have emergency satellite communications?​
Books:​​New simpler interface​​No more curly page turns​​Options for light vs. Dark mode have changed, and now include an option to automatically adjust brightness:​​​​You can use third party authentication apps with the built-in passwords feature.​​Support for LC3 codec and maybe Bluetooth LE Audio standard?​​Support for Nintendo Joy-cons and Pro controllers​​Apps need permission to access the clipboard​​Web notifications support (opt in)​​Apple Music: sort playlists in various ways. Mark artist as favorite.​​Mail: if you mention an attached document in a composed mail, you are warned if you don’t include an attachment when you attempt to send the email.  If you haven’t received a response to a mail thread, you will be offered a chance to follow-up.​​Files app no longer hangs while copying large files from external disks.​​Reminders app: notifications when shared tasks are added or completed​​Apple TV app adds support for HDR10+ (Update: apple has removed reference to this from its website as of June 9, 2022)​​Contacts: ability to find and merge duplicates. (Note: seems buggy at the moment).  Press and hold on contact in list for menu which includes Delete.​​In print dialog, you can now type out the number of copies.​​Can blur background on Home Screen. Not just Lock Screen.​​Spotlight offers information about currently-playing audio.  (Doesn’t seem to happen on iPad in my testing)​​IDs (such as drivers licenses) stored in Wallet.app (where allowed by state) can be used to provide identity or age verification to apps that are updated to use the appropriate sdks.​​Safari:​​Separate favorite sites that correspond to a given tab group.​​Pinned tabs.​​Airpods:​​When connected to airpods, a new entry shows up near the top of settings.​​​​The spatial audio feature that they mentioned using the truedepth sensors involves taking images of your ear geometry. (Apparently iphone-only to set up the spatial audio profile).​​Developer mode: In order to (1) sideload apps via xcode; (2) install apps via TestFlight; (3) execute apps that have been installed via xcode or TestFlight, you need to turn on developer mode in settings.app.  This requires a reboot and entering your passcode a couple of times.  This may be a precursor to eventually allowing alternative app stores.​
*watchOS 9*​Rumors​_some new health stuff, new and improved watch faces, improved low power mode, improved sleep tracking, improved navigation, "afib history"_​Announcement​Four new watch faces and remastered watch faces. Lunar watch face. Playtime (whimsical).  Metropolitan.  Dynamic font.  More watch faces have rich complication.  Refreshed siri. Banner notification changes.  Podcast app changes.  Share Sheet and Photos Picker APIs.  CallKit API changes.​​Three running form metrics: Vertical oscillation, Stride length, Ground Contact Time.  New workout views letting you see more metrics.  Heart rate zones show you intensity level. New custom workout to add structure to run.  New alerts (e.g. heart rate zone).​​Mixed sport workout type (for triathletes) automatically switches from one sport to the next.​​Fitness app available to all iphone users, using iPhone motion sensors instead of apple watch.​​Sleep stages: watch figures out sleep stage.  REM, Awake, Core, Deep.​​Heart Health: Atrial fibrillation - if diagnosed, keep track of history (percentage of time).​​Medications: medications app allows you to track medicine and supplements.  Log, notifications, complications on watch face, track in health app even without apple watch.  Use camera to scan label of medications.  Warns about interactions.  Works with health sharing.  Send family member invitation to share health data with you.​​Six new keyboard languages, new way to connect to Apple TV.​​Unannounced​On Apple Watch Series 7, support for QuickType keyboard​​Automatically change watch face depending on Focus​
*Mac/macOS 13 (Ventura)*​Rumors​_macOS Mammoth?_​_system preferences now much more like iOS settings, with at least some ”by app” preferences, focus mode_​Announcement​M2!  UMA still.  5nm.  20 billion transistors (25% more than M1).  Memory controller 100GB/s.  (50% more than M1).  Up to 24GB memory. 8 core.  4 high performance with 192KB instruction/128KB cache, shared 16MB cache.  4 efficiency cores with 128KB instruction/64K data and shared 4MB cache.​​


1.9x faster than PC 10 core chip. Much less power. GPU now up to 10cores (2 more than M1).  Up to 25% more than M1 at same power level.  Up to 35% more performance (meaning it allows more power usage than M1 GPU).​​M2 - next generation neural engine and secure enclave. 40% more neural ops per second.  New Media Engine.​​New MacBook Air. Notch screen, new cameras, M2. speakers and mikes integrated between keyboard and display.  MagSafe.  Design more or less what had been rumored.  Compact charger with two USB-C ports, etc. Four colors.​​New 13" MacBook Pro: also getting M2.​​Name of macOS: Ventura! (Not Mammoth!)​​Stage Manager: Automatic window organization.  activated from control center.  Arranges windows off to the side except for active app.  Tap app on left and that app "takes the stage" and the others back off.   Windows are gathered in a pile if they are from same app. Cycle through by clicking.  Can also have multiple overlapping windows.  Drag from left side.  Creates app grouping. Keeps them arranged.​​Spotlight - find photos, search live text, actions (start timer or run shortcut), results more detailed for movies, tv shows, actors, sports, etc.  Also coming to iPadOS and iOS.   Added to bottom of home screen in iOS.​​Mail: scheduled send, follow up suggestions, undo send (within 10 seconds), remind me to come back to message at date/time. Overhauled search (synonyms, progressive search, etc). (Note: this stuff also works on iOS and iPadOS).​​Safari: world's fastest and power efficient browser.  Shared tab groups.  Built-in collaboration.  Passkeys - replace passwords. Use cryptography and biometrics to keep accounts safe, instead of password.  Use touchid or faceid.  Never leaves device so can't be tricked into sharing it, and can't leak because nothing secret kept on web servers. Synced between apple devices.​​Gaming: Metal 3.  MetalFX Upscaling.  No Man's Sky coming.  Game loading: fast resource loading api.  Resident Evil Village demo. Feral Interactive announced Grid Legends coming to Mac later this year.​​Handoff for FaceTime calls​​Use iPhone as mac web camera (continuity camera).  Craig showed a little MagSafe stand for that.  Automatically recognizes iphone as web cam.  Center stage.  Studio light (brightens face and darkens background).  Deskview - show work on the desk while keeping you in the picture.  (Your physical desk. Very freaky!)​​

​Working with Belkin on stands. Works with any app.​​Unannounced​System Preferences has been revamped to be more iPadOS-like​​Now there are clock and weather apps.​​USB-C and Thunderbolt accessories will need user permissions before they can communicate (doesn’t apply to things like charging, monitors, or devices that have already been attached to the machine prior to upgrading to Ventura).  Apparently only for laptop Macs.​​Background Sounds has been implemented, mirroring the same accessibility feature from iOS 15.​​New Game Controllers menu, additional support for new controllers, along with racing wheels, pedals, and shifters.​​macOS Ventura runs x86 apps inside of Linux VMs using Rosetta 2​​When selecting “share” from a right-click menu, you now get an iOS-style share sheet Instead of a submenu:​​​

*iPadOS 16*​Rumors​_improved multitasking, resizable floating windows, and everything else that is coming to iOS generally._​
Announcement​Weather app!​WeatherKit (dark sky technology)​​Collaboration: send something with share sheet and select "collaboration."   Send via messages, and everyone can join and make edits.  Document "connected" to conversation.  Can kick off communications within app. Works with pages, safari, keynote, notes, and sdk for developers. Also for iOS and macOS.​​FreeForm app: (later this year).  Looks like a white board/infinite canvas.  Can put all sorts of stuff on it - links, images, videos, text, etc.​​Gaming: Metal 3. Background downloading of large assets. GameCenter: "activity" to the dashboard. SharePlay make it easier to play together.​​Desktop class apps​​Files: change file extensions, view folder size, expand folders in list view, navigation button, sortable columns, enhanced open and save panels.​​Customizable toolbars, document menu, new sdks to support all this.  Much more mac-like.​​Reference color: reference mode for color grading, etc.​​*These features require M1 Air/Pro iPad:*​​New display scaling setting, allows increase of pixel density (nice)!​​Virtual memory swap!!!!!!​​Stage manager!  resize windows. Visible dock, recent apps on left.  New layout capabilities - overlapping windows. Windows reposition as you move them around. Can resize.  Note: press and hold on the icon for stage manager in control center and you can disable “always show dock” and “always show list of recent apps on left”​​Real multiple display support!​​Up to four simultaneous apps in window (x2 if external display)​​Unannounced​When suggesting passports, instead of just “choose your own,” there is a menu with multiple choices.​​

​Handwriting straightening: select text you write with Apple Pencil, and you can “straighten” it by selecting it and then choosing “straighten” from a pop up menu:​​​​​​If enabled in the Settings app, Safari can “show links on hover” if you are using a pointing device. Sort of like the bar you can show at the bottom of the Mac safari window.​​Mac-style multiple selection when using trackpad. (Or keyboard with shift/option tap)​​System support for secondary (right or option) clicking for context menus; ”find” and “replace” interface (above soft keyboard or in the “suggestions” lozenge if you are using a hardware keyboard; support for sortable table views with sort indicator headings.​​Unconfirmed​Allegedly, you can no longer use iPad as a homekit hub.  (https://9to5mac.com/2022/06/08/ios-16-homekit-hubs/).  However, the option to do so still appears, at least in the first iPadOS 16 Beta.​
*Across the board*​Rumors​_Classical music for Apple Music.  Something about a search engine (maybe standalone, maybe replacing Siri’s search backend), some sort of 3D gestural controls (eventually for VR)_​​Announcement​Homekit: discussion of Matter standard.​​Unannounced​Bitcode is deprecated​​​*WWDC Keynote Time Allocation*​To the extent this tells us about Apple's priorities...

10:00-10:04   Tim Cook discusses developer camps and misc. preliminaries. Says there are 34,000,000 App Store developers
10:04-10:11  Craig is really excited. iOS Lock screen/
10:12-10:15  Craig on messages, SharePlay, sharing
10:15-10:19 - Robbie on dictation
10:19-10:22 -  Corey on Wallet
10:22-10:26 - Maps (Craig and Meg)
10:26-10:28-  Ruby on Sports
10:28-10:29 - Family Sharing (Craig)
10:29-10:32 - Photo sharing
10:32-10:34 - Privacy (Katie)
10:35-10:38 - Homekit (Corey #2)
10:38-10:42 - Emily on CarPlay
10:43-10:54 - Kevin, Sumbul and Craig #2 on Apple Watch
10:55-11:11 - Johnny and others on  Mac
11:11-11:17 - macOS
11:17-11:21 -  Darren on mail and Safari
11:21-11:26- Jeremy on Gaming/Metal
11:26-11:30 - continuity
11:31-11:46 -  iPadOS


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## Cmaier

Updated the first post with the list of rumors I know about. Feel free to add on - it should be editable by anyone.


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## jbailey

Not editable by me but I only have 47 posts here (48 with this one.)


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## SuperMatt

jbailey said:


> Not editable by me but I only have 47 posts here (48 with this one.)



It may be due to some issues on the site that Eric is working to fix. I’m sure cmaier would be happy to update the top post for anybody who has a rumor to share.


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## mollyc

is it bad form to link to mr? 

saw a post there this morning about b&h posting product page for a new mac mini and a mini tower. 









						B&H Photo has product pages for an M2 Mac Mini and M1 Pro Mac Mini Tower
					

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1694666-REG/apple__mac_mini_8_256_m2.html  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1694668-REG/apple__mac_mini_tower_8_256.html  In case they get taken down, here’s tweets with screenshots:




					forums.macrumors.com


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## Cmaier

mollyc said:


> is it bad form to link to mr?
> 
> saw a post there this morning about b&h posting product page for a new mac mini and a mini tower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B&H Photo has product pages for an M2 Mac Mini and M1 Pro Mac Mini Tower
> 
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1694666-REG/apple__mac_mini_8_256_m2.html  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1694668-REG/apple__mac_mini_tower_8_256.html  In case they get taken down, here’s tweets with screenshots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.macrumors.com




Saw that. Hard to know if it means much, though I enjoy that some people are interpreting the latter to mean “Mac Pro Mini Tower.”


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## Cmaier

Wiki has been reenabled by Eric, so the top post should now be editable.


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## Roller

Cmaier said:


> Saw that. Hard to know if it means much, though I enjoy that some people are interpreting the latter to mean “Mac Pro Mini Tower.”



I think a higher-end Mac mini makes sense, as does a Mac Pro with a tower design. But a Mac Mini Tower? Maybe if the mini refers to the size of the tower, not that it's another new Mac mini.


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## Renzatic

Roller said:


> But a Mac Mini Tower?




Don't we already have the Mac Mini tower? Isn't that basically what the Studio is?


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## Cmaier

Renzatic said:


> Don't we already have the Mac Mini tower? Isn't that basically what the Studio is?



Yep, that’s why some people think they swapped words and it should be Mac Pro mini tower.


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## Colstan

Regarding the supposed leaks about new Mac hardware, a B&H employee has responded and cleared up the situation.




So, if there's anything new regarding Mac hardware, it wasn't leaked by them.


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## Cmaier

Colstan said:


> Regarding the supposed leaks about new Mac hardware, a B&H employee has responded and cleared up the situation.
> 
> View attachment 14625
> So, if there's anything new regarding Mac hardware, it wasn't leaked by them.




Definitely seemed unlikely.


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## SuperMatt

Colstan said:


> Regarding the supposed leaks about new Mac hardware, a B&H employee has responded and cleared up the situation.
> 
> View attachment 14625
> So, if there's anything new regarding Mac hardware, it wasn't leaked by them.



In the past, I recall people using Best Buy or CompUSA SKUs as evidence of some new Mac. It generally turned out to be just like this tweet describes.


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## Runs For Fun

Colstan said:


> Regarding the supposed leaks about new Mac hardware, a B&H employee has responded and cleared up the situation.
> 
> View attachment 14625
> So, if there's anything new regarding Mac hardware, it wasn't leaked by them.



Sounds like what someone would say who is trying to cover up a leak.


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## Cmaier

Someone didn’t get the message.









						M2-powered 14" MacBook Air and 13" MacBook Pro product listings hidden on B&H website
					

Earlier today, eager Apple fans discovered listings for a new Mac mini and “Mac mini tower” on the website of Apple Authorized Reseller B&H Photo. Now, 9to5Mac has also dug up listings on the B&H Photo website for a new 14-inch MacBook Air powered by an M2 chip, as well as a new entry-level...




					9to5mac.com


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## Cmaier

Apple Store is down, so new hardware is coming… Probably the MacBook Air, but if all it is is a new design with the same chips then the developer audience is not going to be very impressed.


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## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> Apple Store is down, so new hardware is coming… Probably the MacBook Air, but if all it is is a new design with the same chips then the developer audience is not going to be very impressed.



That seems unlikely. Has Apple ever redesigned the model but kept an 18 month old CPU/SoC for any previous Mac? I can't recall an example. More likely the complaints will be that the M2 isn't very impressive if it is released.


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## SuperMatt

New bigger version of Mac Studio will be announced:

“Mac 1-Bedroom with a Den”

New iPhone will have an extra layer of security with saliva DNA detection to unlock. Finally, you CAN lick it!


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## Cmaier

jbailey said:


> That seems unlikely. Has Apple ever redesigned the model but kept an 18 month old CPU/SoC for any previous Mac? I can't recall an example. More likely the complaints will be that the M2 isn't very impressive if it is released.




just going by the rumors, which all seem to point to either M1, or some new M1 variant.  M2 always made more sense to me.  But, then, what makes the most sense to me is a new Mac Pro - aside from being overdue, they telegraphed it at the last event, and developers would be a good audience for it.


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## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> just going by the rumors, which all seem to point to either M1, or some new M1 variant.  M2 always made more sense to me.  But, then, what makes the most sense to me is a new Mac Pro - aside from being overdue, they telegraphed it at the last event, and developers would be a good audience for it.



I also can't believe in an M1 variant considering the Senior VP of Hardware said that the M1 line was completed with the Ultra. That was in March. Apple's plans aren't changing that quickly. Even if they consider an M1 variant to be an existing M1, that still means that Ternus said no new M1's even though they planned to release a new M1. That doesn't make a lot of sense. They just wouldn't have said anything about future products instead as is the norm for Apple.


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## Roller

jbailey said:


> I also can't believe in an M1 variant considering the Senior VP of Hardware said that the M1 line was completed with the Ultra. That was in March. Apple's plans aren't changing that quickly. Even if they consider an M1 variant to be an existing M1, that still means that Ternus said no new M1's even though they planned to release a new M1. That doesn't make a lot of sense. They just wouldn't have said anything about future products instead as is the norm for Apple.



As long as they don't announce a new variant called Omicron, I'm good.


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## Cmaier

jbailey said:


> I also can't believe in an M1 variant considering the Senior VP of Hardware said that the M1 line was completed with the Ultra. That was in March. Apple's plans aren't changing that quickly. Even if they consider an M1 variant to be an existing M1, that still means that Ternus said no new M1's even though they planned to release a new M1. That doesn't make a lot of sense. They just wouldn't have said anything about future products instead as is the norm for Apple.



Yep. 

So it’s either a MBA with M2, which would be contrary to every supposed leak, or an MBA with an M1, which isn’t going to be very exciting unless these MBA’s differ in some other manner than appearance from the old ones. 

One other possibility, though, is the same M1, but at a higher clock speed. That wouldn’t contradict the comments they made about no more M1 variants, and they could say that the new design is to accommodate the thermals or something.


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## Cmaier

Anyone else going to install the first beta? I figure I can either use the old iPad I usually use, or the 12" 2018 iPad i just replaced (if I can keep it running plugged in. Recall that this is the one that won't charge anymore, but I never checked to see if it still runs when connected to power).  

I used to always install the first betas on my daily-use devices, but about 5 or 6 years ago that got to be a problem.  In particular, there is often an issue with mobile iron, which my firm makes me use if i want to read work email.  Sometimes the fault is the OS, but often the fault is mobile iron, which has hard coded checks for iOS version numbers or something and just refuses to validate the device sometimes.


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## SuperMatt

Cmaier said:


> Anyone else going to install the first beta? I figure I can either use the old iPad I usually use, or the 12" 2018 iPad i just replaced (if I can keep it running plugged in. Recall that this is the one that won't charge anymore, but I never checked to see if it still runs when connected to power).
> 
> I used to always install the first betas on my daily-use devices, but about 5 or 6 years ago that got to be a problem.  In particular, there is often an issue with mobile iron, which my firm makes me use if i want to read work email.  Sometimes the fault is the OS, but often the fault is mobile iron, which has hard coded checks for iOS version numbers or something and just refuses to validate the device sometimes.



I usually install the first public beta. I don’t install the developer ones.

Some interesting thoughts from Matt Birchler on rumored new iPadOS features:





__





						Just Buy a Mac
					

Mark Gurman has a new report out about advanced multitasking features coming in iPadOS 16, and while many in my feeds are happy about this, there is also some trepidation. Rene Ritchie, for example, expressed nervousness about this report, saying:  We go over this same thing every year:   1. Rumors




					birchtree.me


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## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> One other possibility, though, is the same M1, but at a higher clock speed. That wouldn’t contradict the comments they made about no more M1 variants, and they could say that the new design is to accommodate the thermals or something.



I actually never considered that. So far, Apple hasn't seemed to be interested in clocking the M1 higher though (very minor increase on the M1 Pro/Max/Ultra).


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## JayMysteri0

Cmaier said:


> Anyone else going to install the first beta? I figure I can either use the old iPad I usually use, or the 12" 2018 iPad i just replaced (if I can keep it running plugged in. Recall that this is the one that won't charge anymore, but I never checked to see if it still runs when connected to power).
> 
> I used to always install the first betas on my daily-use devices, but about 5 or 6 years ago that got to be a problem.  In particular, there is often an issue with mobile iron, which my firm makes me use if i want to read work email.  Sometimes the fault is the OS, but often the fault is mobile iron, which has hard coded checks for iOS version numbers or something and just refuses to validate the device sometimes.



I no longer have my "spare" early iPP, so if the features REALLY look interesting I may try them on my new iPad Air that I use for entertainment.  

I just realized this would be the first year I hadn't intended to play with the iPad OS beta.

I must not really care anymore, and just want my stuff to just work.


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## DT

Cmaier said:


> [...] unless these MBA’s differ in some other manner than appearance from the old ones.


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## DT

I really want resolution independent external display(s), especially if there's a windowing type system introduced.


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## Roller

Cmaier said:


> Anyone else going to install the first beta? I figure I can either use the old iPad I usually use, or the 12" 2018 iPad i just replaced (if I can keep it running plugged in. Recall that this is the one that won't charge anymore, but I never checked to see if it still runs when connected to power).
> 
> I used to always install the first betas on my daily-use devices, but about 5 or 6 years ago that got to be a problem.  In particular, there is often an issue with mobile iron, which my firm makes me use if i want to read work email.  Sometimes the fault is the OS, but often the fault is mobile iron, which has hard coded checks for iOS version numbers or something and just refuses to validate the device sometimes.



I sometimes install a late public beta of iOS, though I'm also wary because of MDM and work-related apps. With macOS, I usually don't install the released version until at least three months in.


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## Cmaier

Roller said:


> I sometimes install a late public beta of iOS, though I'm also wary because of MDM and work-related apps. With macOS, I usually don't install the released version until at least three months in.




Agree re: mac. There's seldom much I find that interesting in the mac betas anyway.


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## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> I usually install the first public beta. I don’t install the developer ones.
> 
> Some interesting thoughts from Matt Birchler on rumored new iPadOS features:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just Buy a Mac
> 
> 
> Mark Gurman has a new report out about advanced multitasking features coming in iPadOS 16, and while many in my feeds are happy about this, there is also some trepidation. Rene Ritchie, for example, expressed nervousness about this report, saying:  We go over this same thing every year:   1. Rumors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> birchtree.me




Taking the position contra to Renee Ritchie is usually a good place to be.


----------



## MEJHarrison

Cmaier said:


> Anyone else going to install the first beta?




I've got an old iPhone laying around not doing much.  So I'll probably test iOS.  Not planning to dive immediately into iPadOS.  MacOS depends.  If there's some cool new thing that requires a MacOS upgrade (like SwiftUI a few years back), I'll do my laptop.


----------



## SuperMatt

Pre-show music is rolling…


----------



## DT

Yeah, it's a good groove, we're dancin' around on this end ...


----------



## Cmaier

To me, the pre-roll music sounds the same every year.


----------



## SuperMatt

I‘m gonna go to the real-time “chat” if people want to join… oh wait I can’t find it


----------



## Cmaier

Special effects.


----------



## DT

Ahh, that’s very Watch like with the color and “Widgets” (complications).


----------



## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> Ahh, that’s very Watch like with the color and “Widgets” (complications).



Yeah the widget aspect is fun.

Can't wait to hear the complaints it's still not enough.

As opposed to the NO widgets we had before.


----------



## B01L

DT said:


> View attachment 14642




That poor spacebar...


----------



## Roller

I like the customizable focus on the lock screen.


----------



## DT

Oh that’s neat, Lock Screen to Focus mapping, plus app level focus control.


----------



## Roller

What does the recipient see if you unsend a message? Does it disappear?


----------



## Cmaier

Updating the wiki post...


----------



## Eric

Nice upgrades to dictation.


----------



## SuperMatt

The dictation features look useful!


----------



## DT

Roller said:


> What does the recipient see if you unsend a message? Does it disappear?




I wonder if there's a difference between read vs. unread[?]


----------



## Alli

Emoji dictation - finally!!!!


----------



## SuperMatt

Wow - dragging objects right out of a photo into another app? We’ve come a long way


----------



## Roller

DT said:


> I wonder if there's a difference between read vs. unread[?]



Yes, that makes sense. If the message is unread, it can disappear, but if it's been read, just making it disappear would be odd.


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Wow - dragging objects right out of a photo into another app? We’ve come a long way



This is amazing!


----------



## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> Wow - dragging objects right out of a photo into another app? We’ve come a long way



Crazy to see how fast this tech moves.


----------



## Alli

Eric said:


> Crazy to see how fast this tech moves.



Yet we always complain that it could be done faster.


----------



## Roller

Have to admit, I'm excited by what I've seen so far.


----------



## Cmaier

Eric said:


> Crazy to see how fast this tech moves.



be nice with AR goggles


----------



## Roller

Hope there's some improvements to Mail.


----------



## Nycturne

Is it just me, or did they announce a potentially large change to Intents/Siri/Shortcuts APIs by steamrolling over it and moving onto the live text APIs?


----------



## JayMysteri0

Will Apple Pay work like Square?

If so, that would be a game changer for people doing business at conventions.


----------



## SuperMatt

What happens if you miss a payment on Apple Pay later? They don’t say…..


----------



## Cmaier

JayMysteri0 said:


> Will Apple Pay work like Square?
> 
> If so, that would be a game changer for people doing business at conventions.



yes


----------



## Alli

ApplePay Later. For people still earning too little every two weeks.


----------



## Roller

I'd like Apple Pay Never.


----------



## Roller

Maps: Stay light even in Dark Mode, please!


----------



## JayMysteri0

That will be awesome for people doing business at conventions, because not every customer likes to carry a wad of bills thru a convention.

Being able to tap your card to pay for books, items, & prints will be wonderful.



Roller said:


> Maps: Stay light even in Dark Mode, please!



I still haven't convinced myself to switch from Google Maps to Apple's maps.


I'm impressed that Craig can even overact the act of walking.


----------



## Alli

My Sports. Hot damn.


----------



## Deleted member 215

So far Lock Screen customizability is the best new feature. Wish there could be some of that customizability to home pages though...

Apple Maps is still not replacing Google Maps for me though.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Apple will create the most arcane ways to avoid multiple accounts on an iPad.


----------



## Alli

I Ike this shared library. Would have been nice this past week when my daughter was visiting.


----------



## SuperMatt

Maybe this auto-sharing of photos is what some rumor-sellers were talking about when they said Apple was offering some “social networking” features?


----------



## Roller

Looking forward to see what they have for CarPlay. I use it, but it could be so much better.


----------



## Eric

the new Home app will only be applicable to supported devices, the achilles heel for all of them.


----------



## Cmaier

Eric said:


> the new Home app will only be applicable to supported devices, the achilles heel for all of them.



With Matter, that will be a lot


----------



## Alli

So we’ll have to get a new car for improved CarPlay?


----------



## Cmaier

Alli said:


> So we’ll have to get a new car for improved CarPlay?



for gauge cluster stuff at least, yeah


----------



## Eric

Alli said:


> So we’ll have to get a new car for improved CarPlay?



Or it won't be supported, like Tesla.


----------



## Eric

Automakers will have to be fully onboard with these latest changes, will be interesting to see how well it's adopted.


----------



## DT

The car integration tech won’t be in any vehicles until 2024, I’ve been reading about the interface/bus specs, and it’s on longerish term road maps from a few manufacturers.


----------



## Roller

So nothing until late 2023. No changes for current version?


----------



## Deleted member 215

So much of iOS is about sharing. What about those of us who don't have friends? Lol. I'm kidding, to an extent. I like sharing photos that I take of my friends (like on my recent vacation), but I've never used SharePlay and I can't see using the shared library either.


----------



## Roller

CarPlay on Apple Watch!


----------



## theorist9

"Vehicles will start to be announced late next year."   Caught the tail end of that, but was that Apple saying when the first Apple Car will come out, or did I mishear?   I did like the dashboard-wide display in that mockup.   EDIT: "No, they're referring to vehicles from the listed carmakers that are compatible with the full dashboard UI."


----------



## SuperMatt

I’m pretty happy with the current CarPlay setup, so if there’s nothing new this year, that’s fine for me. Pretty interesting to see the level of integration they are offering for the future.


----------



## Alli

I just want more options for complications.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Alli said:


> I just want more options for complications.



I just hope they break the tradition of the new faces & stuff are for the newest watch and on.

Unlike the collectors I appreciate that Apple Watch is such a durable device that I don't upgrade every year or 2 or 3.


----------



## DT

SuperMatt said:


> I’m pretty happy with the current CarPlay setup, so if there’s nothing new this year, that’s fine for me. Pretty interesting to see the level of integration they are offering for the future.




Yeah, I’ve been saying for years they need to development a standard interface for car instrumentation, data, etc., for deep integration, and now with EVs, it’s even more valuable when combined with apps like ABPR for planning routes, charging, etc.


----------



## Alli

Watch is going to need a much better battery.


----------



## theorist9

Not sure how helpful the running metrics that Apple Watch captures will be in allowing people to improve their form.  Yes, vertical oscillation is useful, but the most basic issue with poorer runners is a lack of upper-lower body separation, and this doesn't address that.  So by focusing on these, runners needing to improve their form might be missing the forest for the trees.


----------



## Deleted member 215

These health features aren't for those of us with health anxiety and hypochondria


----------



## Alli

Being able to see drug interactions would be lovely. Pharmacists aren’t catching these.


----------



## Cmaier

Whoa! M2!


----------



## Eric

Alli said:


> Being able to see drug interactions would be lovely. Pharmacists aren’t catching these.



And sharing it with a family member is a great feature.


----------



## DT

Woooo M2!


----------



## JayMysteri0

I want to know more about the medications feature.  Especially scanning in the medication you take and making reminders.  Would be great for my mother.


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Whoa! M2!






DT said:


> Woooo M2!



Dammit, I just bought 2 systems with M1s in them. I feel used.


----------



## Alli

Eric said:


> Dammit, I just bought 2 systems with M1s in them. I feel used.



Same.


----------



## SuperMatt

18% faster than M1


----------



## Eric

May as well say "Let us show you how much better it is than the chip you just bought last week!"


----------



## JayMysteri0

Eric said:


> Dammit, I just bought 2 systems with M1s in them. I feel used.



If you've brought Apple products in the past you're "used" to this.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Update the 24" iMac with M2 and I might finally get one!


----------



## Eric

JayMysteri0 said:


> If you've brought Apple products in the past you're "used" to this.



M1 is for chumps.


----------



## SuperMatt

ProRes on the chip? Wow.


----------



## DT

M2 MBA let’s see it!


----------



## JayMysteri0

TBL said:


> Update the 24" iMac with M2 and I might finally get one!



Put it in space gray, instead of pastel, and I would have gotten it with M1.

If they finally make a "real" Mac Mini and it comes with M2...


----------



## SuperMatt

New MBA looks similar in style to the MBPs


----------



## JayMysteri0

Eric said:


> M1 is for chumps.



Oh come on.  It's Apple.

How do you think all those who rush out to get the new MacBook Air will feel in September?


----------



## Deleted member 215

No white bezels or notch. I knew there would not be a white notch.


----------



## DT

MacBook Air Chubby


----------



## SuperMatt

Welcome back MagSafe!


----------



## Eric

JayMysteri0 said:


> Oh come on.  It's Apple.
> 
> How do you think all those who rush out to get the new MacBook Air will feel in September?



They'll feel cheap when they learn that October will be the month of the all new M3.


----------



## SuperMatt

Notch alert!


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Welcome back MagSafe!



I wish they’d stop going back and forth with chargers. Everything should use USB-C at this point.


----------



## JayMysteri0

THAT is the device for all of those still bitching that the iPad is not the computer they wanted instead of an iPad.



Alli said:


> I wish they’d stop going back and forth with chargers. Everything should use USB-C at this point.



Technically they give you both.  On my MBP, I've actually never used the Magsafe, but charged thru USB C and it's fast.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Still wish there was a larger screen MBA...that would be so perfect for me.


----------



## Alli

JayMysteri0 said:


> Technically they give you both. On my MBP, I've actually never used the Magsafe, but charged thru USB C and it's fast.



Who knew?!


----------



## Alli

That charging block is necessary.


----------



## JayMysteri0

That Air will be sold out the first day of ordering.

Can't lie, I'm interested and have absolutely no need for it.


----------



## Eric

JayMysteri0 said:


> That Air will be sold out the first day of ordering.
> 
> Can't lie, I'm interested and have absolutely no need for it.



Do you already have an M1?


----------



## JayMysteri0

Eric said:


> M1 is for chumps.



Okay. 

NOW you be MAD.


----------



## Deleted member 215

Do they just have a bunch of 13" touch-bar chassis lying around? I don't understand why they're keeping this laptop around.


----------



## SuperMatt

MBP 13” has no notch? Looks like it has Touch Bar still? The picture they use of it makes it almost impossible to see the Touch Bar….


----------



## Alli

So is the M2 better than/not as good as/the same as the Ultra and Super Ultra?


----------



## Cmaier

Alli said:


> So is the M2 better than/not as good as/the same as the Ultra and Super Ultra?



better at single thread tasks. worse at multithreaded tasks.


----------



## Nycturne

I thought the new Air was going to replace the 13” MBP for a second. Nope


----------



## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> MBP 13” has no notch? Looks like it has Touch Bar still? The picture they use of it makes it almost impossible to see the Touch Bar….



I know I'm in the minority here but I love the Touch Bar for routinely used shortcuts.


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> MBP 13” has no notch? Looks like it has Touch Bar still? The picture they use of it makes it almost impossible to see the Touch Bar….




Thicker top bezel it looks like.



TBL said:


> Do they just have a bunch of 13" touch-bar chassis lying around? I don't understand why they're keeping this laptop around.




There's a crowd that always wants a Pro version of anything exists.  So if you are selling a Macbook Air, you know a Pro version is a seller.



Eric said:


> Do you already have an M1?



I have the 16 inch MBP to go with my 12.9 iPP.


----------



## Joelist

The "predicters" got M2 a bit wrong - It is more than just a generation change on the microarchitecture. They also did like M1 Pro and added effectively afterburner and also increased the bandwidth. So M2 turns out to be a bigger jump than initially thought.


----------



## SuperMatt

Ventura


----------



## Deleted member 215

Let's hope there's some improvements to the Music app...are we getting that Classical app?


----------



## SuperMatt

Eric said:


> I know I'm in the minority here but I love the Touch Bar for routinely used shortcuts.



I have the final-gen Intel MBP and I don‘t mind the Touch Bar, but I don‘t use it for much.


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Ventura



Bleh.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Joelist said:


> The "predicters" got M2 a bit wrong - It is more than just a generation change on the microarchitecture. They also did like M1 Pro and added effectively afterburner and also increased the bandwidth. So M2 turns out to be a bigger jump than initially thought.



I always thought the M series was like iPhones.  One year iPhone xx & M1, next year iPhone xxS and M2, and so on.

So it doesn't surprise me when your version gets a 20 - 40% upgrade 6 months after you pulled the trigger.


----------



## Eric

LOVE these new window management features.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Eric said:


> LOVE these new window management features.



It's a visually interesting presentation.


----------



## Alli

I think I like Stage Manager. Sure could have used that when I was working on that dissertation!


----------



## Cmaier

Stage manager looks awesome.
Better than using multiple desktops


----------



## SuperMatt

Interesting window management concept… instead of the idea of multiple desktops, you get groups of windows. That’s almost exactly how I use my virtual desktops, so I think I will like this.


----------



## Citysnaps

SuperMatt said:


> Interesting window management concept… instead of the idea of multiple desktops, you get groups of windows. That’s almost exactly how I use my virtual desktops, so I think I will like this.




Think I'll like it too.


----------



## SuperMatt

With them adding an icon for spotlight on iOS.... will swiping down still work? That is automatic behavior for me now


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> With them adding an icon for spotlight on iOS.... will swiping down still work? That is automatic behavior for me now



I hope they aren’t taking that away.


----------



## Joelist

JayMysteri0 said:


> I always thought the M series was like iPhones.  One year iPhone xx & M1, next year iPhone xxS and M2, and so on.
> 
> So it doesn't surprise me when your version gets a 20 - 40% upgrade 6 months after you pulled the trigger.



iPhones do seem to follow the tick tock approach where tick is the core change and tock is small enhancements. M Series seems to have ticks but no tocks - at least for now. Instead of the tocks they have "sizes" - the Pro, Max and Ultra are effectively scale ups of the base M Series.


----------



## Alli

They just went through Mail and I didn’t get the impression they were doing anything. Did I miss it?


----------



## Deleted member 215

More sharing lol


----------



## Alli

TBL said:


> More sharing lol



Dude, you need friends.


----------



## SuperMatt

They didn’t change the toolbar on Mail… I am not a huge fan of the current setup - wish the toolbar would go farther to the left like it used to. Not enough space for all the icons with the current layout.


----------



## Alli

Passkeys. I like!


----------



## SuperMatt

Alli said:


> They just went through Mail and I didn’t get the impression they were doing anything. Did I miss it?



Send later and undo send… nothing much else


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Send later and undo send… nothing much else



Bleh.


----------



## Joelist

Passkey is VERY intriguing, reminds me a little of what some banks do nowadays letting you generate one use faux CC numbers.


----------



## Nycturne

Alli said:


> They just went through Mail and I didn’t get the impression they were doing anything. Did I miss it?




Catch-up?


----------



## Deleted member 215

Alli said:


> Dude, you need friends.




You guys are my only friends 

Jk

Edit: Maybe these gaming improvements will finally motivate more developers to make Mac versions of games? There are fewer excuses for this to not be so...


----------



## Nycturne

Joelist said:


> Passkey is VERY intriguing, reminds me a little of what some banks do nowadays letting you generate one use faux CC numbers.




This has been a long time coming, honestly. I’m glad we are finally seeing the fruits of the effort.


----------



## Alli

TBL said:


> You guys are my only friends
> 
> Jk



We once knew a guy who claimed we were the closest thing to friends that he had.


----------



## Cmaier

fingers are getting tired from updating the wiki post


----------



## DT

Yes, hahaha, Resident Evil on Mac!


----------



## Eric

Nycturne said:


> This has been a long time coming, honestly. I’m glad we are finally seeing the fruits of the effort.



Apple has always taken security and privacy seriously.


----------



## SuperMatt

If you let your gray beard grow out, it’s a bit obvious that you dye your hair….. Or maybe that’s an intentional style choice?


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> fingers are getting tired from updating the wiki post



Your efforts are noticed and appreciated.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Wow!  Village on the Mac.

I didn't play it on my PS5, I may do it just because here.


----------



## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> If you let your gray beard grow out, it’s a bit obvious that you dye your hair….. Or maybe that’s an intentional style choice?



I wasn't going to say anything but yeah, dayum!


----------



## SuperMatt

CAMO studio just got sherlocked


----------



## Alli

Holy shit! Continuity camera.


----------



## Cmaier

Desk view is crazy


----------



## SuperMatt

Thanks to desk view, I guess I have to wear pants on video conferences now…


----------



## Alli

DeskView!


----------



## DT

iPhone as web cam with all the fancy camera tech, this is very clever.


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> Thanks to desk view, I guess I have to wear pants on video conferences now…



Yes.

Please.


----------



## SuperMatt

Bring on the iPad software!


----------



## DT

Alli said:


> DeskView!




I was hoping for lap view …


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Desk view is crazy



Wondering if we have to use a Mac display for this, or can I use it with my 3rd party monitor?


----------



## Deleted member 215

No talk of Music app


----------



## JayMysteri0

FINALLY!!!

Then he over acts running.


----------



## Cmaier

Eric said:


> Wondering if we have to use a Mac display for this, or can I use it with my 3rd party monitor?



don't think it depends on monitor at all


----------



## Alli

I love how Craig never takes himself seriously.


----------



## Nycturne

Eric said:


> Apple has always taken security and privacy seriously.



True, but I’m just thinking that WebAuthn has been coming since 2016. 



JayMysteri0 said:


> Wow!  Village on the Mac.
> 
> I didn't play it on my PS5, I may do it just because here.



The other place keeps complaining that Apple needs to invest in gaming.

And here they are providing two key changes to Metal: one to make it easier to support consistent framerates on retina displays, and another to add a rather useful bit of functionality now that Apple is building their own SoCs that means anything M1/M2 based will have something akin to the PS5’s direct loading, or MS’ DirectStorage functionality.

Sure, no ray tracing, but these are both rather important changes, IMO.


----------



## SuperMatt

A weather app…

FINALLY


----------



## Cmaier

iPad Weather!


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> don't think it depends on monitor at all



That was my guess, so I assume that clip is just a mount and it communicates with the Mac directly with or without a monitor.


----------



## JayMysteri0

About friggin' time with Weather.

It made no sense that iPhones got an interactive app, but iPad got you an app that sent you to Weather.com.


----------



## Roller

Got cut off midstream. Idiot from Spectrum was fishing a cable under our driveway for Internet service and cut my AT&T fiber. Asked him if they checked before digging. He said their surveyor didn’t show, so he went ahead anyway. 

Fortunately, AT&T will have someone out here later today to replace the cable. I know people often complain about them, but this is good service.


----------



## Alli

Hey @TBL - look, more sharing!


----------



## DT

Eric said:


> Wondering if we have to use a Mac display for this, or can I use it with my 3rd party monitor?



Just the Mac, so it can work with headless machines (that might not be using an Apple display)


----------



## Deleted member 215

Alli said:


> Hey @TBL - look, more sharing!




NOOOOOOOO!!!!

When I collaborated in college it was always Google Docs. Unless everyone uses iPads or Macs, it's not really going to help.


----------



## Cmaier

shared whiteboard app is fine.


----------



## Nycturne

Cmaier said:


> shared whiteboard app is fine.




I’m kinda geeking out about it even without collaboration as I’ve had trouble finding a good way to do brainstorming that is also capable to link out to documents and websites (in a way that isn’t super barebones).


----------



## theorist9

Skeptical about PassKey. I find KeyChain sometimes fails—websites won't recognize the password. Thus even though my passwords are saved in KeyChain, I also always save them manually in a document on my the encrypted drive on my Mac. When KeyChain fails, I look up the password in that doc, and enter it manually. 

The problem would seem to be that, when PassKey fails, since it doesn't use passwords, you won't have a password to look up and enter manually.


----------



## Alli

theorist9 said:


> Skeptical about PassKey. I find KeyChain sometimes fails—websites won't recognize the password. Thus even though my passwords are saved in KeyChain, I also always save them manually in a document on my the encrypted drive on my Mac. When KeyChain fails, I look up the password in that doc, and enter it manually.
> 
> The problem would seem to be that, when PassKey fails, since it doesn't use passwords, you won't have a password to look up and enter manually.



That could definitely be a problem.


----------



## SuperMatt

Customizable toolbars is a nice enhancement


----------



## JayMysteri0

Photogs / colorists / graphic designers are going to love reference mode


----------



## SuperMatt

Nice - stage manager on iPad!


----------



## Cmaier

iPad display scaling!

Virtual memory swap! (I called it!)


----------



## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> Nice - stage manager on iPad!



This is great!!!!


----------



## DT

Holy hell, this is awesome, now native external display support!


----------



## Cmaier

Stage manager for iPad - that should work out just fine.


----------



## Alli

Cmaier said:


> Stage manager for iPad - that should work out just fine.



This is what I’ve been wanting.


----------



## Cmaier

DT said:


> Holy hell, this is awesome, now native external display support!



here it is!


----------



## JayMysteri0

Stage manager on iPad!!  

I get the beta for my iPad Pro after all.



Cmaier said:


> iPad display scaling!
> 
> Virtual memory swap! (I called it!)




That's going to be a big deal for anyone who didn't get the 12.9 iPad Pro, which had the memory.  Which was great for Procreate users



External display.  FUCK YEAH!


----------



## Nycturne

This probably is what sells me on a 13” iPad, TBH….


----------



## DT

No multiuser in iPadOS … I’m filled with sadness …


----------



## JayMysteri0

My interest for the Macbook Air died with something as simple as external monitor support finally.


----------



## theorist9

I wonder how Stage Manger will work with Split View.  Will it push the Split View to the right so you can see the Stage Manager "side bar", or will it obscure it?  Would be nice to have the option to move the Stage Manager side bar to another display.


----------



## Alli

Nycturne said:


> This probably is what sells me on a 13” iPad, TBH….



I’ll stick with my smaller iPad (I tried the larger one year). My iPad will still be ultra portable, and I can plug right into my external monitor for screen space.


----------



## Cmaier

theorist9 said:


> I wonder how Stage Manger will work with Split View.  Will it push the Split View to the right so you can see the Stage Manager "side bar", or will it obscure it?  Would be nice to have the option to move the Stage Manager side bar to another display.




i'm guessing it will either split the split view into windows, or you just can't mix and match split view with stage manager


----------



## Alli

theorist9 said:


> I wonder how Stage Manger will work with Split View.  Will it push the Split View to the right so you can see the Stage Manager "side bar", or will it obscure it?  Would be nice to have the option to move the Stage Manager side bar to another display.



I’d be happy if they got rid of split view entirely.


----------



## JayMysteri0

This is one happy Youtuber.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1533825987355389953/

I'm sure he's lost his mind, and gets to spend the rest of the week learning more.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Did miss anything about TVOS?

I only use the Apple TV app on my Apple TV when watching these presentations.  Never noticed it actually combines a lot of my content from various sources.

Weird seeing the Apple TV telling me to watch 'The Boys'.


----------



## theorist9

Alli said:


> I’d be happy if they got rid of split view entirely.



I don't use Split View to achieve this; I use Size Up, which works great.  I've got the the G4 and G5 buttons on my Logitech G502 gaming mouse programmed to do left screen and right screen, respectively.  [I just referenced "Split View" in my post because I figured folks would be more familiar with it than Size Up.]


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> Did miss anything about TVOS?
> 
> I only use the Apple TV app on my Apple TV when watching these presentations.  Never noticed it actually combines a lot of my content from various sources.
> 
> Weird seeing the Apple TV telling me to watch 'The Boys'.




The opening had a bunch of stuff about automation, that had some TVOS overlap (as the hub/controller), but nothing really much about any other improvements, even around the different gaming discussions.


----------



## Eric

Overall there's a lot of really cool changes coming, pretty happy with this one. @Cmaier Great job adding it all to the first post of this thread BTW.


----------



## DT

Oh yeah, the Wiki is great!


----------



## DT

Store is up, here's the configuration / pricing for the new M2 MBA:






Memory Options







You can also upgrade the 256GB storage model with the 8/8 Core SOC to the 8/10 core:


----------



## JayMysteri0

It makes me realize the seeming real separation is the port selection.

If you are a 'pro' you may want the memory card, if you don't need you go with the Air.


----------



## theorist9

The Air/13" MBP are still limited to one external display (two total).  That's a bit disappointing.  The SOP for many offices these days is two externals, and this locks them out of that market.

I recall this interview with Samsung in which they said they'd be mass-producting 24 GB LPDDR5x RAM stacks* in 2022; 32 GB stacks won't be available until 2024-2025 ( https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-and-samsung-webinar-talks-raphael-overclocking-ddr5-future ).  Wonder if they're using LPDDR5x in the M2 Air, or if it's just increased-density LPDDR5.  I guess we'll find out soon enough....

[*The chips will be 24 Gb; with 8 chips to a stack, this gives 24 GB.]


----------



## Cmaier

theorist9 said:


> Still limited to one external display (two total).  That's a bit disappointing.




Baby steps.


----------



## Cmaier

Eric said:


> Overall there's a lot of really cool changes coming, pretty happy with this one. @Cmaier Great job adding it all to the first post of this thread BTW.




Thanks. We can expand on these things as we learn more.


----------



## Joelist

theorist9 said:


> The Air/13" MBP are still limited to one external display (two total).  That's a bit disappointing.  The SOP for many offices these days is two externals, and this locks them out of that market.
> 
> I recall this interview with Samsung in which they said they'd be mass-producting 24 GB LPDDR5x RAM stacks* in 2022; 32 GB stacks won't be available until 2024-2025 ( https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-and-samsung-webinar-talks-raphael-overclocking-ddr5-future ).  Wonder if they're using LPDDR5x in the M2 Air, or if it's just increased-density LPDDR5.  I guess we'll find out soon enough....
> 
> [*The chips will be 24 Gb; with 8 chips to a stack, this gives 24 GB.]



This likely will never change as it would involve putting more controllers into the SOC. Now they did increase the Memory bandwidth by 50% which was a prerequisite but they do seem to be clearly delineating between Pro and Non Pro devices - and multi display seems to be a Pro thing.


----------



## Colstan

Apple introduced Metal 3, with new tools for game developers, along with upscaling technology. They also had the lead developer for "Resident Evil: Village" on stage to announce an Apple Silicon version. I'm sure the crowd over at MR are going to be pleased by this and not at all irrationally upset. But hey, "Apple doesn't care about gaming".

Also, notable is what wasn't announced: no information on an Apple Silicon Mac Pro.


----------



## Colstan

System requirements for macOS Ventura:

 • iMac (2017 and later)
 •‌ iMac‌ Pro
 • MacBook Air (2018 and later)
 • MacBook Pro (2017 and later)
 • Mac Pro (2019 and later)
 • Mac mini (2018 and later)
 • MacBook (2017 and later)

Basically, anything pre-2017 is out. I had assumed that Apple would move quickly to deprecate Intel models faster than a lot of folks had assumed, and that appears to be the case.


----------



## theorist9

Comparing the size and weight of the new Air to the old one:

The widths are identical, and the weight and depth are about the same—the new Air is 0.1 lbs. lighter, and 0.1" deeper.

The latter was likely to accommodate the 0.1" increase in screen height from 7.3" (1660 pixels@227 ppi) to 7.4" (1664 pixels@224 ppi) needed for the notch. I.e., they did the same thing here as on the MBP's:  It's a 16:10 aspect ratio plus more pixels on top of that for the notch.  Display width increased by 0.1" (from 2560/227 = 11.3" to 2560/224 = 11.4"), so that's probably where you'll see the narrower borders they mentioned:  A 0.05" reduction on the each side.

The main difference is in thickness. The old Air varies from 4.1 mm to 16.1 mm; the new Air is consistently 11.3 mm. The average thickness of new Air is ~20% less, since the presentation said its volume was 20% less.


----------



## ArgoDuck

Question to those knowledgeable: the reference to 20% higher performance on the cpu side…this doesn‘t necessarily translate to single-core speed right?

I noted bigger cache, higher memory bandwidth and did I catch mention of higher clocking, etc, but a ‘performance’  boost _overall_ isn’t quite the same as any single metric like SC scaling up by 20% - or is it?

Edit: oops, I see apple insider lists "18% faster" CPU, which I guess I missed. Perhaps the general thrust of my question still stands though


----------



## jbailey

DT said:


> Store is up, here's the configuration / pricing for the new M2 MBA:
> 
> View attachment 14652
> 
> 
> Memory Options
> 
> 
> View attachment 14653
> 
> 
> You can also upgrade the 256GB storage model with the 8/8 Core SOC to the 8/10 core:
> 
> View attachment 14654



I'm very likely to go with the Midnight 8-core CPU, 10-Core GPU, 24 GB/1 TB model. Either sell my current 16 GB/1 TB M1 MBA or trade it in for $540. That $540 seems a bit low but the no hassle trade in is hard to beat. I will end up paying about $1500 for 100 nits, 18% M2 performance improvement, 2 extra GPU cores, 0.3" of extra screen, a notch (shrug), 0.1 pounds lighter, ProRes encoder/decoder (which I have no use for), 1080p camera, and a really cool new color.


----------



## DT

Geez, the M2 13" MBP still only has 2 ports, and no mag safe and a 720p vs. 1080P camera!  It looks like the M2 MBA is much closer vs. the last iteration, both have 500 nit / P3 displays, the battery life is 18 vs. 20 hours.

Plus, if you go to 16GB memory on the 13" for a closer comparison (and an appropriate amount for "pro" use), then the 14" with an 8/14 core M1 Pro, more ports, larger display, support multiple displays is only $300 more.

The 13" M2 MBP makes zero sense.


----------



## Cmaier

Installed the ipados beta profile on my old ipad… which now CHARGES!  I guess I got the new ipad for no reason. Oh well.


----------



## diamond.g

Colstan said:


> Apple introduced Metal 3, with new tools for game developers, along with upscaling technology. They also had the lead developer for "Resident Evil: Village" on stage to announce an Apple Silicon version. I'm sure the crowd over at MR are going to be pleased by this and not at all irrationally upset. But hey, "Apple doesn't care about gaming".
> 
> Also, notable is what wasn't announced: no information on an Apple Silicon Mac Pro.



Don’t forget No Man’s Sky is finally coming to MacOS.


----------



## Cmaier

Colstan said:


> Apple introduced Metal 3, with new tools for game developers, along with upscaling technology. They also had the lead developer for "Resident Evil: Village" on stage to announce an Apple Silicon version. I'm sure the crowd over at MR are going to be pleased by this and not at all irrationally upset. But hey, "Apple doesn't care about gaming".
> 
> Also, notable is what wasn't announced: no information on an Apple Silicon Mac Pro.




Undoubtedly, it will use an M2 variant.  Something I predicted quite awhile ago based on images of the M1 crossbars. 

Aside from allowing more M2Maxes to be tiled, RAM support per M2Max will likely be 50% higher than for M1Max.


----------



## Cmaier

Nice logo


----------



## Colstan

Cmaier said:


> Undoubtedly, it will use an M2 variant.  Something I predicted quite awhile ago based on images of the M1 crossbars.



You're a regular Svengali, @Cmaier, never change.

I realize that there's only so much to go on, beyond Apple's fancy slide show, but do you have any hot takes on the M2?

BTW, notice how much Gurman botched? The Mac Pro won't be based on M1, and macOS 13 didn't get a System Preferences redesign. His well has run dry. Kuo was wrong about the new Air still being M1-derived. Apple has gotten much better about shutting down leakers.


----------



## Cmaier

So based on this, I assume the M2 chip for the Mac Pro will be made of 4 M2 Maxes, each of which may have at least 12 cores. Physical RAM up to 192GB.


----------



## DT

Colstan said:


> Apple has gotten much better about shutting down leakers.




It's their new head of security ...


----------



## Cmaier

Colstan said:


> You're a regular Svengali, @Cmaier, never change.
> 
> I realize that there's only so much to go on, beyond Apple's fancy slide show, but do you have any hot takes on the M2?
> 
> BTW, notice how much Gurman botched? The Mac Pro won't be based on M1, and macOS 13 didn't get a System Preferences redesign. His well has run dry. Kuo was wrong about the new Air still being M1-derived. Apple has gotten much better about shutting down leakers.




Well, the preferences may have been updated and they just didn’t talk about it? 

Not much to go on for M2, but the faster memory bandwidth and ability to have more physical memory is most interesting to me. Certainly must be avalanche and blizzard.  No ray tracing in the GPUs is notable, but that seems like something that would come in the 3nm node, I guess - physical die Area must be at a premium since they are still at 5nm, and ray tracing isn’t small, is my understanding.


----------



## Cmaier

jbailey said:


> I also can't believe in an M1 variant considering the Senior VP of Hardware said that the M1 line was completed with the Ultra. That was in March. Apple's plans aren't changing that quickly. Even if they consider an M1 variant to be an existing M1, that still means that Ternus said no new M1's even though they planned to release a new M1. That doesn't make a lot of sense. They just wouldn't have said anything about future products instead as is the norm for Apple.



Yep. Rumors were just wrong.  M2 always made the most sense, but people seemed to think it was impossible until they released Mac Pro with M1. Of course I thought Mac Pro would be M2, anyway. What we’ve learned is that the leaks have really dried up.


----------



## Joelist

Cmaier said:


> Yep. Rumors were just wrong.  M2 always made the most sense, but people seemed to think it was impossible until they released Mac Pro with M1. Of course I thought Mac Pro would be M2, anyway. What we’ve learned is that the leaks have really dried up.



Also the rumor mill underestimated what M2 was bringing to the table. Higher per core and therefore total CPU performance, higher memory bandwidth, both more advanced and more GPU cores, New blocks for ProRes among other things (basically built in Afterburner).


----------



## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> Can't lie, I'm interested and have absolutely no need for it.




Well, yeah. It comes in that dark blue color. That's hard to resist.


----------



## Cmaier

Joelist said:


> Also the rumor mill underestimated what M2 was bringing to the table. Higher per core and therefore total CPU performance, higher memory bandwidth, both more advanced and more GPU cores, New blocks for ProRes among other things (basically built in Afterburner).




One thing that‘s interesting from the Srouji presentation is they are apparently allowing the GPU to increase in power over the current GPU. 25% improvement at same wattage, 35% max improvement.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> Well, yeah. It comes in that dark blue color. That's hard to resist.



That's one reason I have a new iPad Air!


----------



## Runs For Fun

I said I was pretty satisfied with my M1 MBA and wouldn't be interested in upgrading so soon. But damn Apple know how to sell stuff to me lol. I still don't think I'll get this new one but I'm really tempted. That blue is  and MagSafe would free up a port.
Also, finally some real kind of multi-tasking on iPadOS with Stage Manger! Can't wait for that.



Cmaier said:


> Nice logo
> 
> View attachment 14668



Yeah I really like the colors of that logo.


----------



## theorist9

Cmaier said:


> One thing that‘s interesting from the Srouji presentation is they are apparently allowing the GPU to increase in power over the current GPU. 25% improvement at same wattage, 35% max improvement.



Were those per-core figures or overall?  If the latter, they'd have to allow an increase in wattage to keep the per-core wattage the same, since they're going from 8 GPU cores to 10, right?  Since the core count is increasing by 25%, the only way the max wattage wouldn't increase is if the max per-core wattage dropped by >=20% (which apparently didn't happen).

[E.g., just using round numbers for simplicity, if the M1 is 1W/core, that's 8W total (for the non-binned variant with 8 GPU cores).  For the M2's 10-core GPU to have no increase in wattage, it would need a per-core wattage of no more than 0.8 W/core x 10 cores = 8 W, i.e., a per-core drop of >=20%.]

And if those are overall performance figures, that indicates an 8% increase in per-core performance at max wattage (1.08 performance increase  x 1.25 core count increase = 1.35).


----------



## Runs For Fun

Oh some other things. Really looking forward to Apple Pay Later. That would be amazing to not have to go through a third party for something like that. Also excited for all the changes coming to Mail. Heart rate zones in WatchOS will be really nice! I also really like the changes to the lock screen.


----------



## theorist9

Cmaier said:


> So based on this, I assume the M2 chip for the Mac Pro will be made of 4 M2 Maxes, each of which may have at least 12 cores. Physical RAM up to 192GB.



I assume you meant 384 GB, since the M2 Max should offer up to 64 x 24/16 = 96 GB.


----------



## Cmaier

theorist9 said:


> I assume you meant 384 GB, since the M2 Max should offer up to 64 x 24/16 = 96 GB.




Yep. i forgot the final x2.


----------



## Cmaier

At least some devices will support landscape faceid.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Oh more: iMessage edit, undo send, and mark unread! Yes! But still no tapback with any emoji.


----------



## Colstan

Some bit of plumbing that was left out of the presentation about Ventura:

• *macOS security* gets even stronger with new tools that make the Mac more resistant to attack, including Rapid Security Response that works in between normal updates to easily keep security up to date without a reboot.

One of the biggest complaints about modern macOS is the size of updates. Sometimes, a patch for a single vulnerability will be multiple gigabytes. It looks like Apple is working to reduce the necessity for those gigantic downloads, making it so that a Mac won't always need a reboot.


----------



## Andropov

Colstan said:


> • *macOS security* gets even stronger with new tools that make the Mac more resistant to attack, including Rapid Security Response that works in between normal updates to easily keep security up to date without a reboot.



iOS gets Rapid Security Response too, IIRC. Nice.


----------



## Cmaier

I added “unannounced” to the wiki post at the top of this thread for things I’m finding that were not announced. Like, now you can see your wifi passwords in the settings app


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> iOS gets Rapid Security Response too, IIRC. Nice.



Yep. It’s mentioned in the wiki post at the top of this thread


----------



## Runs For Fun

Oh finally!








						iOS 16 Will Let You Lock Your Hidden and Recently Deleted Photos Albums
					

Apple is adding the ability for users to lock their Hidden and Recently Deleted albums on iOS 16, requiring user authentication through Touch ID or...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## throAU

Swap on iOS and iPadOS will be a game changer.

Not just for Apple but will clearly differentiate the Apple devices from competitor android machines (in terms of capability) that use cheaper crappier flash or even run the bulk of their content from micro SD.


----------



## Cmaier

throAU said:


> Swap on iOS and iPadOS will be a game changer.
> 
> Not just for Apple but will clearly differentiate the Apple devices from competitor android machines that use cheaper crappier flash or even run the bulk of their content from micro SD.




Question: is there swap on iOS? Or just iPadOS?


----------



## throAU

Cmaier said:


> Question: is there swap on iOS? Or just iPadOS?




To be fair I’ve only read the summaries and haven’t watched the keynote yet (it would have started around 1am here)


----------



## Cmaier

throAU said:


> To be fair I’ve only read the summaries and haven’t watched the keynote yet (it would have started around 1am here)




I don’t think they gave an answer, but the discussion of swap came during the iPad portion. I would not be surprised if there is no swap yet on iPhone.  That could even be something that differentiates iPhone Pro vs. iPhone in the future models.


----------



## Andropov

Cmaier said:


> Not much to go on for M2, but the faster memory bandwidth and ability to have more physical memory is most interesting to me. Certainly must be avalanche and blizzard.  No ray tracing in the GPUs is notable, but that seems like something that would come in the 3nm node, I guess - physical die Area must be at a premium since they are still at 5nm, and ray tracing isn’t small, is my understanding.



What dictates the amount of RAM that a CPU can address? I find it somewhat counterintuitive that the M2 can't address, for example, 32GB of RAM. I get why having more bandwidth is difficult, but why is supporting more RAM capacity difficult? I know that a couple decades ago computers had much higher headrooms (i.e. the PowerMac G3, which shipped with 64MB standard but could go up to 1024MB), but nowadays a lot of CPUs seem to be much more limited in the RAM capacity they support, compared to the 'standard' or average configuration.


----------



## Cmaier

Display scaling on iPad:


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> What dictates the amount of RAM that a CPU can address? I find it somewhat counterintuitive that the M2 can't address, for example, 32GB of RAM. I get why having more bandwidth is difficult, but why is supporting more RAM capacity difficult? I know that a couple decades ago computers had much higher headrooms (i.e. the PowerMac G3, which shipped with 64MB standard but could go up to 1024MB), but nowadays a lot of CPUs seem to be much more limited in the RAM capacity they support, compared to the 'standard' or average configuration.




Could be a number of factors. Address bits is one (of course each additional address bit doubles the amount of addressable RAM).  The size of structures like TLBs and caches (more so the TLBs than the caches - caches just get less efficient at a given size if RAM increases). Etc.  Could also be physical factors - power, package area, etc.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> Display scaling on iPad:
> 
> View attachment 14691



Is it just me or does Standard and More Space look the same?


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> Is it just me or does Standard and More Space look the same?




My text sure got a lot smaller in “more space.”

Things like buttons stayed the same size, which makes sense since they need to be tap targets.


----------



## Andropov

Cmaier said:


> Display scaling on iPad:



Oh f*ck. M1 iPads only.


----------



## Cmaier

Haven’t found a way to edit the Lock Screen on iPad. Maybe that’s just an iPhone thing? Or maybe simply not implemented yet.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> Oh f*ck. M1 iPads only.



Yeah, i get the feeling a lot of these things will be only M1.


----------



## Andropov

Cmaier said:


> Could be a number of factors. Address bits is one (of course each additional address bit doubles the amount of addressable RAM).  The size of structures like TLBs and caches (more so the TLBs than the caches - caches just get less efficient at a given size if RAM increases). Etc.  Could also be physical factors - power, package area, etc.



Oh that makes sense. Thanks!


----------



## Andropov

I don't know if they mentioned it on the keynote (I may have missed it), but on the SOTU they presented Swift Charts, which is a super powerful API for charts. I had missed something like that (1st party) for years.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> I don't know if they mentioned it on the keynote (I may have missed it), but on the SOTU they presented Swift Charts, which is a super powerful API for charts. I had missed something like that (1st party) for years.




Oh, really?  I haven’t watched that yet. I spent so much time doing my own UIViews for charts…


----------



## Buntschwalbe

Cmaier said:


> Well, the preferences may have been updated and they just didn’t talk about it?




Yes. There was something at the end of the ventura presentation. But just a sidenote on the summary sheet.


----------



## Colstan

Yup, Gurman was actually right about the new "System Settings" redesign. Here's a more detailed image:


----------



## Cmaier

Just tried the thing where you can drag objects out of photos. It’s wild.

It gets a little weird with Live Photos - you have to tap and hold but not too long otherwise it starts animating. So you sort of tap-pause-drag before it can animate.


----------



## Cmaier

Colstan said:


> Yup, Gurman was actually right about the new "System Settings" redesign. Here's a more detailed image:
> 
> View attachment 14700




yeah, but if that’s the biggest tidbit he was able to extract from his sources, his well is running dry.


----------



## theorist9

theorist9 said:


> I recall this interview with Samsung in which they said they'd be mass-producting 24 GB LPDDR5x RAM stacks* in 2022; 32 GB stacks won't be available until 2024-2025 ( https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-and-samsung-webinar-talks-raphael-overclocking-ddr5-future ).  Wonder if they're using LPDDR5x in the M2 Air, or if it's just increased-density LPDDR5.  I guess we'll find out soon enough....
> 
> [*The chips will be 24 Gb; with 8 chips to a stack, this gives 24 GB.]



Come to think of it, the M2 probably does use LPDDR5 rather than LPDDR5x, since the  50% increase in bandwidth stated by Apple corresponds to the difference between LPDDR4x (which is in the M1) and LPDDR5.  LPDDR5x, by contrast, is 33% faster than LPDDR5, and would thus have twice as much bandwidth as LPDDR4x (1.33 x 1.5 = 2.0).

[The M1 Pro, Max, and Ultra use LPPDR5.]


----------



## Colstan

Cmaier said:


> yeah, but if that’s the biggest tidbit he was able to extract from his sources, his well is running dry.



Absolutely. Gurman obviously still has sources, but they're somewhere on the fringes. His best source gave him basically every detail about the M1 generation, but what he's released since has been either conjecture or vague hints around the edges. If a revamped preferences pane is the best he could do, while missing Stage Manager, then he's definitely playing a weak hand.


----------



## Cmaier

Colstan said:


> Absolutely. Gurman obviously still has sources, but they're somewhere on the fringes. His best source gave him basically every detail about the M1 generation, but what he's released since has been either conjecture or vague hints around the edges. If a revamped preferences pane is the best he could do, while missing Stage Manager, then he's definitely playing a weak hand.




he’d say: “i got stage manager. I said ‘different ways of interacting’“

Dude banned me on twitter a long time ago, apparently for something I said like “I think Gurman is wrong.“. So he seems like a dick.


----------



## Cmaier

Scheduled mail sending:


----------



## Cmaier

I’ve updated the wiki on the first post again to add a bunch more features that were not announced today but which have been discovered.


----------



## Andropov

Major support drops with this set of OSs. watchOS drops the Series 3, iOS drops iPhone 7 and iPod Touch, macOS drops any Mac released before 2017.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> Major support drops with this set of OSs. watchOS drops the Series 3, iOS drops iPhone 7 and iPod Touch, macOS drops any Mac released before 2017.




 Yep. Honestly, I think that’s good news.  I notice that the downloads are smaller, Xcode is smaller, everything is snappier, and this beta is remarkably stable compared to prior years.


----------



## Eric

Ouch  

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1533859619721945090/


----------



## Andropov

Cmaier said:


> Xcode is smaller



Xcode no longer includes watchOS nor tvOS SDKs by default, hence the size reduction. Good news, honestly.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> Xcode no longer includes watchOS nor tvOS SDKs by default, hence the size reduction. Good news, honestly.



That was 30% of the file size? Yikes.


----------



## tomO2013

Colstan said:


> Apple introduced Metal 3, with new tools for game developers, along with upscaling technology. They also had the lead developer for "Resident Evil: Village" on stage to announce an Apple Silicon version. I'm sure the crowd over at MR are going to be pleased by this and not at all irrationally upset. But hey, "Apple doesn't care about gaming".
> 
> Also, notable is what wasn't announced: no information on an Apple Silicon Mac Pro.



There will be inconsolable rage, devastation and huge disappointment that Apple ignored the need to accelerate fish-fingers chess benchmark. Especially when an AMD ryzen laptop can run circles around the m1, has neon blue strip lighting and comes pre-packaged with a nice foot heater/grey power brick.
Don’t get me started about cinebench… I don’t actually use it, but I’m offended  and very disappointed that Apple screwed me over by not accelerating it for that toy story film I had planned in my head. 
I’ll nurse this disappointment in the corner with a nice Tequillia sunrise and listen to Celine Dion “my heart will go on”.


----------



## DT

Cmaier said:


> Scheduled mail sending:




Schedule mail sending is one of the best things ever, for the kids who don't get it, you will 

@tomO2013 JFC dude, I snorted drink out my nose, nice ...


----------



## Colstan

Cmaier said:


> Yep. Honestly, I think that’s good news.



For the Mac, it's great news for security, because it cuts everything out that doesn't have a T2 or Apple Silicon. It seemed rather arbitrary to cut Macs from before 2017, but looking from that perspective, it makes sense.

Anyone want to speculate about how many more updates Intel Macs get? I'm guessing macOS 15 will be the last x86 release, with roughly two years of security patches afterward. Keep in mind, I'm being optimistic; I wouldn't be surprised if the next release is the last for Intel.


----------



## Andropov

Colstan said:


> Anyone want to speculate about how many more updates Intel Macs get? I'm guessing macOS 15 will be the last x86 release, with roughly two years of security patches afterward. Keep in mind, I'm being optimistic; I wouldn't be surprised if the next release is the last for Intel.



Agreed. Next year is a bit too soon, but I don't expect Intel Macs to be supported after 2024.


----------



## Yoused

I bet Stage Manager is left out of the x86 build.


----------



## Cmaier

Edit and unsend for Messages.app has a 15 minute time limit, looks like.


----------



## Yoused

Over on ars, I saw

*Unfortunately, it seems like Apple's developers still haven't found a way to port the iPhone's complex, resource-intensive Calculator app to the iPad.*​
I am assuming they omitted the "/s".


----------



## Cmaier

tomO2013 said:


> There will be inconsolable rage, devastation and huge disappointment that Apple ignored the need to accelerate fish-fingers chess benchmark. Especially when an AMD ryzen laptop can run circles around the m1, has neon blue strip lighting and comes pre-packaged with a nice foot heater/grey power brick.
> Don’t get me started about cinebench… I don’t actually use it, but I’m offended  and very disappointed that Apple screwed me over by not accelerating it for that toy story film I had planned in my head.
> I’ll nurse this disappointment in the corner with a nice Tequillia sunrise and listen to Celine Dion “my heart will go on”.



Is that guy still posting that stuff over there?


----------



## theorist9

Colstan said:


> For the Mac, it's great news for security, because it cuts everything out that doesn't have a T2 or Apple Silicon. It seemed rather arbitrary to cut Macs from before 2017, but looking from that perspective, it makes sense.



The one exception is the iMac, which didn't get a T2 chip until 2020:





						Mac models with the Apple T2 Security Chip
					

Learn which Mac computers have the Apple T2 Security Chip.



					support.apple.com
				




... which kinda sucks, because it means I can't watch Netflix in 4k on my 2019 iMac :








						Netflix Will Only Stream 4K to Macs With T2 Security Chip - ExtremeTech
					

A lot of Macs that can stream 4K perfectly using Windows lack this chip and therefore cannot do so using macOS.




					www.extremetech.com


----------



## Cmaier

This is new


----------



## MEJHarrison

Cmaier said:


> Just tried the thing where you can drag objects out of photos. It’s wild.
> 
> It gets a little weird with Live Photos - you have to tap and hold but not too long otherwise it starts animating. So you sort of tap-pause-drag before it can animate.




I played with it too.  It's very cool.  I'm impressed.


----------



## Cmaier

MEJHarrison said:


> I played with it too.  It's very cool.  I'm impressed.


----------



## Nycturne

DT said:


> Schedule mail sending is one of the best things ever, for the kids who don't get it, you will




My brain during that whole segment was: “Oh hey, the nice things about GMail/Outlook/etc that I wished Mail had”



Colstan said:


> Apple introduced Metal 3, with new tools for game developers, along with upscaling technology. They also had the lead developer for "Resident Evil: Village" on stage to announce an Apple Silicon version. I'm sure the crowd over at MR are going to be pleased by this and not at all irrationally upset. But hey, "Apple doesn't care about gaming".




Yeah, this stuff is important for Apple to do. Upscaling is very useful for making sure that if someone is using a laptop by itself, or attached to a monitor between 1080p to 6K, they can still get good performance. IMO, Apple needs this at least as badly as consoles do, because of all the high-density displays. Apple’s version of “DirectStorage” makes good use of the technology they have in Apple Silicon.

The other thing I’m noticing is that Apple is pretty aggressively scheduling work on the pain points of SwiftUI. While they are bringing some new stuff in the form of Charts, they seem to have spent a good chunk of time addressing the navigation model, windows, toolbars, and the like. These are all things that I’ve banged my head against in my current project.

While I do slightly regret going all-in on SwiftUI on my current project (I didn’t hit the edge cases in SwiftUI 3 until well into the project), I am quite happy seeing that my biggest pet peeves seem to be the headlining changes in the next iteration of SwiftUI. Having worked on large projects, I know full well you can’t just go address everything in one go, but they seem to have a good balance of “things we have to get done“ with “new things that the previous framework doesn’t have built in” which makes me confident that SwiftUI is the future UI framework for Apple platforms, and is worth investing in.


----------



## Pumbaa

Andropov said:


> Oh f*ck. M1 iPads only.



Assumed that. Thanks for confirming. 



Cmaier said:


> Haven’t found a way to edit the Lock Screen on iPad. Maybe that’s just an iPhone thing? Or maybe simply not implemented yet.



Too resource intensive given the screen real estate. Maybe gets added in iPadOS 17 or 18, for M2 iPads and up.


----------



## theorist9

I wonder why, with 1.5 years do do it, Apple didn't update the form factor on the 13" M2 MBP like they did on the M2 Air. Not sure if there were any changes at all, other than the M2.


----------



## Cmaier

theorist9 said:


> I wonder why, with 1.5 years do do it, Apple didn't update the form factor on the 13" M2 MBP like they did on the M2 Air. Not sure if there were any changes at all, other than the M2.



Because the point of that machine is that it’s cheap, but the trade off is you have the old form factor.


----------



## Andropov

The M1 MacBook Air serves that purpose too. And it doesn't have a TouchBar. Makes more sense to keep only the M1 Air IMHO, I think that cheap MacBook Pro config will disappear next year.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> The M1 MacBook Air serves that purpose too. And it doesn't have a TouchBar. Makes more sense to keep only the M1 Air IMHO, I think that cheap MacBook Pro config will disappear next year.



For sure. It’s stuck around for certain customers but is definitely not a long term member of the family. It’s role will eventually be replaced with “last year’s 14” mbp”


----------



## Andropov

iOS 16 Portrait mode now also blurs objects in the focal planes closer to the camera (instead of just blurring the background). Massive improvement in the look of pictures IMHO. Can't believe they didn't mention this in the keynote.


----------



## DT

Andropov said:


> The M1 MacBook Air serves that purpose too. And it doesn't have a TouchBar. Makes more sense to keep only the M1 Air IMHO, I think that cheap MacBook Pro config will disappear next year.




Yep.



DT said:


> Geez, the M2 13" MBP still only has 2 ports, and no mag safe and a 720p vs. 1080P camera!  It looks like the M2 MBA is much closer vs. the last iteration, both have 500 nit / P3 displays, the battery life is 18 vs. 20 hours.
> 
> Plus, if you go to 16GB memory on the 13" for a closer comparison (and an appropriate amount for "pro" use), then the 14" with an 8/14 core M1 Pro, more ports, larger display, support multiple displays is only $300 more.
> 
> The 13" M2 MBP makes zero sense.




It used to distance itself from the MBA product a bit more, for my own personal machine, I'd absolutely go Air over the 13" MBP, this round, where the M1 machines, I might've been given it a little thought (FWIW, we have both an M1 MBA and 13" MBP ...)

I kind of chuckled when I saw the touchbar, I was thinking they might just quietly remove it.

Drop the 13" MBP, add a 15" MBA.


----------



## Colstan

Cmaier said:


> Is that guy still posting that stuff over there?



I'm not sure if "chess guy" is still over at MR. Mi7chy continues proselytizing to Mac plebeians about the good news regarding PCs and how we should change our ways and embrace the one true computing platform. (And probably getting more people banned in the process.) What's remarkable about that poster is that they seem to actually believe that they are doing the right thing for their faith, spreading the good word, and not understanding why people get upset. It's bizarre.

In regards to WWDC, the reaction to Apple's gaming announcement was, unsurprisingly, met with a great deal of angst, tumult, gnashing of teeth, and resulted in a grievousness malady among the peasantry. Not even an ironmonger as skilled as Johny Srouji could calm the common folk. I found great joy in WWDC, only to watch MR toss oily fish rags atop, set it alight, and do a ceremonial dance around its flaming cadaver.

So yeah, MR is still upset about everything Apple announced, as is tradition. Ever since I found this forum, I've spent much less time over there.


----------



## DT

Hahaha, Mi7chy seems like such a sad little person, spending endless cycles on a forum about Apple equipment, tiny fists in the air, stomping their feet, occasionally spouting some technical nonsense.  I'm sure they push away from their desk at the call center everyday, convinced they've "owned" the Apple masses, and at night, while their Kraft M&C heats up, imagine the excitement they experience when they see someone has replied to their posts.

Silly jabs aside, right, I do NOT get it, that seems like such a huge waste of life cycles.  That would be like me signing up on a <some_car> forum, let's say, a Charger, just to tell them how their choices are all wrong, how what I drive is way better, even though I have zero vested interest in it, other than some - as you put it - bizarre sense of satisfaction that I've turned them or made them regret / rethink their decision.


----------



## Nycturne

theorist9 said:


> I wonder why, with 1.5 years do do it, Apple didn't update the form factor on the 13" M2 MBP like they did on the M2 Air. Not sure if there were any changes at all, other than the M2.



Honestly, I’m a bit surprised they even kept it.

The touchbar is EOL, so they aren’t keeping it because of that. The display in the M2 Air should now be at least as good with the improved nit range, true tone, etc. The M2 Air has a better port selection. About the only reason to keep it now is that it has a fan and won’t throttle like the Air when under constant load for long periods of time.

As a developer, if I wanted a cheap laptop from Apple for development, I’d honestly pick the M2 Air.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Yeah I was wondering why they still kept the 13" MBP around. It sits in kind of a weird slot in their lineup.


----------



## Andropov

Maybe it's easier to get stock/parts for that model, now that there are so many supply chain problems.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> Maybe it's easier to get stock/parts for that model, now that there are so many supply chain problems.




Could also be a sales channel thing - certain corporate or institutional buyers want that form factor for awhile.


----------



## Colstan

Runs For Fun said:


> Yeah I was wondering why they still kept the 13" MBP around. It sits in kind of a weird slot in their lineup.



While I can't confirm this, I suspect it might be marketing. This happens all the time with televisions. Say, a manufacturer releases a 75-inch television at a premium price with older technology/form factor. Then they release a 65-inch television with redesigned casing, newer panel, and at a slightly reduced price compared to the bigger model. The consumer then thinks they are getting a bargain with the smaller device, when in fact it's a psychological means of enhancing perceived value.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 13-inch MacBook Pro ships in a much lower volume, but it performs the function that marketing intends it to. It's the same reason Apple has crazy margins on the top RAM or SSD configurations; it gives the middle option a perceived value, even though Apple's margin is still high on mid-range options.


----------



## Runs For Fun

I don't remember if this was specifically mentioned, but iOS/iPadOS 16 and macOS 13 will allow you to insert emojis using dictation.


----------



## Nycturne

Cmaier said:


> Could also be a sales channel thing - certain corporate or institutional buyers want that form factor for awhile.




Probably the best reason I’ve heard for it. Apple did say it was their second best selling Mac.

I’m a bit surprised there was no M2 Mac mini announced. The form factor there was definitely to make things easier on places that orders these things in bulk for server racks during the transition, but I guess it might be up for a redesign soon if they aren’t just refreshing it like the 13”?


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> I don't remember if this was specifically mentioned, but iOS/iPadOS 16 and macOS 13 will allow you to insert emojis using dictation.



Yep, was mentioned. I tested it and said “mind blown emoji” but it transcribed as “mine blown emoji,” so, so much for that


----------



## jbailey

Runs For Fun said:


> Yeah I was wondering why they still kept the 13" MBP around. It sits in kind of a weird slot in their lineup.



During the keynote they claimed it was the second best-selling laptop after the Air. I don't think we need to overthink it beyond this.


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> Is that guy still posting that stuff over there?




Appletoni still appears to be active over there, just taking a subtler strategy to the trolling (adjust for the meaning of "subtle" wrt MR).


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> Appletoni still appears to be active over there, just taking a subtler strategy to the trolling (adjust for the meaning of "subtle" wrt MR).



I miss him most of all.


----------



## Cmaier

BTW, I have been continuously adding new discoveries (my own, all of yours, and things I find on the web), so if you’re interested in what’s new in the new operating systems, be sure to check the first post in this thread from time to time. (For example, I just found a password creation thing that I hadn’t seen reported elsewhere).


----------



## Colstan

9to5Mac has an article detailing the features that us Intel using troglodytes won't be able to take advantage of, namely these three things require Apple Silicon:

 • Live Captions in FaceTime
 • Reference Mode with Sidecar
 • Insert emoji using your voice while dictating

I admit I'm surprised that there wasn't more, but I suppose Apple is already getting enough flack about dropping pre-2017 Macs from the compatibility list.


----------



## Colstan

A note about plumbing, macOS Ventura runs x86 apps inside of Linux VMs using Rosetta 2. I'm sure some people will see this as a sign that Apple will do the same with Microsoft and Windows, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


----------



## tomO2013

Cmaier said:


> Is that guy still posting that stuff over there?



Unfortunately.


----------



## Cmaier

There have been many more updates to the initial post, for those interested in all the tiny little new features.


----------



## throAU

SuperMatt said:


> ProRes on the chip? Wow.



Yeah that's what i thought!

They didn't make a big thing about it, but for casual video editing people this is going to be huge!


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> There have been many more updates to the initial post, for those interested in all the tiny little new features.




It would be awesome if xenforo offered a sticky OP option for threads, you know, kind of like the way polls appear on every page. It would be ideal for wikis.


----------



## Cmaier

I guess this is new, too. You can set separate “favorites” for saved tab groups in safari. (Below, my tab group is named “Default”


----------



## Colstan

@Cmaier, my favorite part of that image, from your "Favorites":


----------



## Cmaier

The system print dialog on macOS Ventura seems to be an improvement. It’s also resizeable.


----------



## Cmaier

Colstan said:


> @Cmaier, my favorite part of that image, from your "Favorites":
> 
> View attachment 14783




Didn’t take you guys long to find that 

The fun thing is, I can’t even click the link, or it takes me to the “we have a problem, you’ve been banned” page. No way to log out (i guess i could clear my settings in safari settings).  On the rare occasion I visit there now (to view some link you guys post), I have to go into a private tab to do it.


----------



## Colstan

Cmaier said:


> Didn’t take you guys long to find that
> 
> The fun thing is, I can’t even click the link, or it takes me to the “we have a problem, you’ve been banned” page. No way to log out (i guess i could clear my settings in safari settings).  On the rare occasion I visit there now (to view some link you guys post), I have to go into a private tab to do it.



Are you one of those people who has two decades of cruft from using Migration Assistant? I've always nuked it from orbit when getting a new Mac, it's the only way to be sure, but I usually keep my machines for as long as macOS supports them, not replacing it every two years. I suppose that would get tedious.


----------



## mollyc

Colstan said:


> Are you one of those people who has two decades of cruft from using Migration Assistant? I've always nuked it from orbit when getting a new Mac, it's the only way to be sure, but I usually keep my machines for as long as macOS supports them, not replacing it every two years. I suppose that would get tedious.




I've been banned from MR twice and you can't get to your profile when you are banned, and therefore cannot log out. But you can get to private messages. I guess because the mods have to tell you that you are banned, so that area stays open.


----------



## Cmaier

Colstan said:


> Are you one of those people who has two decades of cruft from using Migration Assistant? I've always nuked it from orbit when getting a new Mac, it's the only way to be sure, but I usually keep my machines for as long as macOS supports them, not replacing it every two years. I suppose that would get tedious.



Not quite two decades (I bought my first Mac  when Leopard came out), but, yeah, I always just Migrate. I have powerpc binaries sitting in my applications directory.


----------



## Cmaier

Another minor new feature: if enabled in the Settings app, on iPad, Safari can “show links on hover” if you are using a pointing device. Sort of like the bar you can show at the bottom of the Mac safari window.


----------



## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> Didn’t take you guys long to find that
> 
> The fun thing is, I can’t even click the link, or it takes me to the “we have a problem, you’ve been banned” page. No way to log out (i guess i could clear my settings in safari settings).  On the rare occasion I visit there now (to view some link you guys post), I have to go into a private tab to do it.



I clear out cookies and other storage frequently (once a week) on general principal so it wouldn't be a problem for me. Clear out MR cookies and you will definitely get logged out. With Safari's integration with the keychain, logging back in to the few sites that I have a login with isn't much of a problem.


----------



## Cmaier

jbailey said:


> I clear out cookies and other storage frequently (once a week) on general principal so it wouldn't be a problem for me. Clear out MR cookies and you will definitely get logged out. With Safari's integration with the keychain, logging back in to the few sites that I have a login with isn't much of a problem.




yeah, i just really can‘t be bothered . I’ve maybe tried to click on two links since I’ve been banned, and each time I’m like “oh, yeah, I can‘t see forum pages over here.”  It’s actually nice to remind myself


----------



## Yoused

Why does Safari not allow access to your cookies? I continue to rely on iCab because it provides me with surgical control over my cookies (and a nice fast scrollbar that is always on).


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> Why does Safari not allow access to your cookies? I continue to rely on iCab because it provides me with surgical control over my cookies (and a nice fast scrollbar that is always on).



For the same reason Apple software usually omits features: in Apple’s estimation the number of people who are going to do that is small, and they like to keep things simple if they can.


----------



## MEJHarrison

Colstan said:


> Are you one of those people who has two decades of cruft from using Migration Assistant? I've always nuked it from orbit when getting a new Mac, it's the only way to be sure, but I usually keep my machines for as long as macOS supports them, not replacing it every two years. I suppose that would get tedious.




I used Migration Assistant for the first time this year.  I was impressed by how quick and easy it was to get the new machine up and running.  But I was shocked at all the stuff that just magically appeared on the new machine. I think I too prefer to just start from scratch.  Oh well.  Live and learn.


----------



## Cmaier

Installing or running apps from TestFlight apparently requires developer mode to be turned on.


----------



## Cmaier

LOL. We‘ve hit the character limit on the original wikipost, so can‘t add any more features there


----------



## mollyc

Cmaier said:


> LOL. We‘ve hit the character limit on the original wikipost, so can‘t add any more features there



you could delete the lines that have to do with the rumors.


----------



## Cmaier

mollyc said:


> you could delete the lines that have to do with the rumors.



Yeah, i did some of that (i removed tvos and some other categories entirely)


----------



## Cmaier

We should be good on space for awhile


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> Yeah, i did some of that (i removed tvos and some other categories entirely)




By murdering the formatting, I think I freed up a large amount of space. Xenforo is messed up in that, when you have an indented block of text and you put in a \n\n, it has to open and close the indent tag on every line, even blank lines.


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> By murdering the formatting, I think I freed up a large amount of space. Xenforo is messed up in that, when you have an indented block of text and you put in a \n\n, it has to open and close the indent tag on every line, even blank lines.




Thanks. I‘ve also gone in and removed some newlines, tightened up some text, etc. We should be good.


----------



## Cmaier

Just occurred to me that the reason Apple hasn’t broken its password managing on iOS into a stand-alone app is because the long game is to obviate such apps with Passkey.  And the reason it won’t improve the cameras in its laptops (and monitors) is that it thinks the future is some sort of Frankenstein setup where you mount your phone on top?


----------



## Runs For Fun

Just saw this tidbit. Finally we can get notifications from Xenforo!


----------



## Eric

Runs For Fun said:


> Just saw this tidbit. Finally we can get notifications from Xenforo!
> View attachment 15031



The entire community is waiting on this with baited breath, Apple has been way late to the table with this one.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Eric said:


> The entire community is waiting on this with baited breath, Apple has been way late to the table with this one.



Agreed, it's kind of ridiculous it has taken this long.


----------



## SuperMatt

Here is a detailed look at passkeys, a new feature announced at WWDC that could replace passwords. 









						Why Passkeys Will Be Simpler and More Secure Than Passwords - TidBITS
					

Passkeys are a new way to log into websites and apps that replaces passwords. The industry-standard passkey technology is simpler and more secure than passwords (even with two-factor authentication), resists phishing, and is built to be compatible across browsers and platforms.




					tidbits.com
				




Tidbits seldom disappoints. I think it’s definitely worth a read.


----------



## lizkat

SuperMatt said:


> Here is a detailed look at passkeys, a new feature announced at WWDC that could replace passwords.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Passkeys Will Be Simpler and More Secure Than Passwords - TidBITS
> 
> 
> Passkeys are a new way to log into websites and apps that replaces passwords. The industry-standard passkey technology is simpler and more secure than passwords (even with two-factor authentication), resists phishing, and is built to be compatible across browsers and platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tidbits.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tidbits seldom disappoints. I think it’s definitely worth a read.




And a bookmark so I can read it again after more coffee...   thanks.


----------



## Cmaier

Beta 3 on iPad changes the "three dots" multitasking doohickey in Stage Manager.  Instead of just popping up three icons in a horizontal row, it's a menu now.





They also changed the "tray" on the left side to clearly indicate when multiple windows are in a "stage"






Both of the above were found by Federico Viticci.


----------



## Cmaier

From my experiments, it also looks like Beta 3 lets you window (in stage manager) apps that previously were only allowed to run full-screen.  It won’t let you ignore apps’ orientation limits, though - a portrait-only app can run in a window, but it stays in portrait mode when you rotate the device.  This causes weird behaviors when one windowed app needs portrait but the rest don’t.  When you rotate, the rest generally rotate, but it seems janky, and it’s weird and pointless not to have the “portrait-locked” app also rotate.


----------



## Cmaier

Also interesting: two choices are ”close” and “minimize.”  Close quits the app (or at least that instance of the app). That’s a macOS concept, not really an iPadOS concept.


----------



## DT

Interesting stuff.

With the ability to handle a more flexible workflow, drive an external display (correctly), I might up getting the little G an M1 iPadPro + KB/TP case for the coming school year.  I've hesitated in the past to migrate anyone from a Mac (laptop) to an iPad, just so I wasn't trying to solve usability problems, but I think this next OS version may do it.

The alternatives are to get a new display for ~$300 and fix her M1 MBP (16/256),  which of course, assumes I actually fix it and not wreck it    Or just go with another Mac, probably an M2 MBA - and yes, FFS, get AC+ this time   

Funny that a slightly upgraded MBA M2 (base + 16GB RAM) is pretty much the same price as an iPP 12.8 + KB/TP

I could take the MBP, use it in perm "desktop mode" for my Mac, sell the Mini, get a Winders machine - the latter I may wind up needing anyway.






We could also sell everything, the house, stuff, take out all our money in cash, buy an RV, change our names, and hit the road, see where life takes us ...

Decisions, decisions ...


----------



## Cmaier

Looks like they’ve turned on “shared libraries” in photos now. I set one up but won’t be able to test it for awhile.


----------



## Yoused

DT said:


> We could also sell everything, the house, stuff, take out all our money in cash, buy an RV, change our names, and hit the road, see where life takes us ...
> 
> Decisions, decisions ...



Get the one that has the 300KWh battery pack, with the solar panel body and deployable wind turbine so you can park in west BF for a week to get it charged up. But make sure it has an efficient heat pump (it can get cold of a night in ND or blistering in AZ) and a good water purifier to handle recycling your PoE.


----------



## Cmaier

I am seeing that this beta does a much better job of keeping windows positioned and sized within a stage when you leave the stage and come back.  I have Reeder and Tweetbot sharing a stage, and Reeder kept expanding (and losing its UINav controller hierarchy position) in the prior betas. Now it seems to work.

On the other hand, there still is the issue I have with apps that need to be blessed by MobileIron before they run. On app launch mobile iron is invoked, but then it crashes before it can return control to the app.  Again, I think this is related to the new clipboard protections, and that MobileIron needs to ask permission to see the clipboard or something.


----------



## Yoused

On my regular model iPad, when I pull up the floating Notepad window from the corner, if it is on home screen, I can type one letter at which point the keyboard slides off the screen. I mean, granted, it is a non-typical usage that is almost nonsensical, but still, it would be niceif 16 would unflaw this.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Interesting stuff.
> 
> With the ability to handle a more flexible workflow, drive an external display (correctly), I might up getting the little G an M1 iPadPro + KB/TP case for the coming school year.  I've hesitated in the past to migrate anyone from a Mac (laptop) to an iPad, just so I wasn't trying to solve usability problems, but I think this next OS version may do it.
> 
> The alternatives are to get a new display for ~$300 and fix her M1 MBP (16/256),  which of course, assumes I actually fix it and not wreck it  Or just go with another Mac, probably an M2 MBA - and yes, FFS, get AC+ this time
> 
> Funny that a slightly upgraded MBA M2 (base + 16GB RAM) is pretty much the same price as an iPP 12.8 + KB/TP
> 
> I could take the MBP, use it in perm "desktop mode" for my Mac, sell the Mini, get a Winders machine - the latter I may wind up needing anyway.




Decided the iPad+KB/TP, especially with iPadOS 16 apparently delayed till October - and my uncertainty that it still would possibly introduce some challenges  - was not the best fit.

Ordering an M2 Air, 8/10, 16GB RAM, 256GB storage in Starlight


----------



## DT

** BOOM **

Done, and I should have saved ~$100 for no tax week in Florida, plus $50 cashback, so for ~$1450, pretty happy.  I decided to purchase just the machine and I'll get AC+ as a different transaction since the purchase cap is $1500 for the tax break.  

Showing Aug 19th - Aug 26th delivery date.

Started with the base M2 ($1199) and upped the RAM (+$200) and GPU (+$100) to max, 256GB is fine for storage:






The little G is beaming over the color


----------



## SuperMatt

DT said:


> ** BOOM **
> 
> Done, and I should have saved ~$100 for no tax week in Florida, plus $50 cashback, so for ~$1450, pretty happy.  I decided to purchase just the machine and I'll get AC+ as a different transaction since the purchase cap is $1500 for the tax break.
> 
> Showing Aug 19th - Aug 26th delivery date.
> 
> Started with the base M2 ($1199) and upped the RAM (+$200) and GPU (+$100) to max, 256GB is fine for storage:
> 
> View attachment 16391
> 
> 
> The little G is beaming over the color
> 
> View attachment 16393



If it hasn’t shipped, you might want to consider increasing the SSD storage, for the speed boost you will get…









						The $1,199 M2 MacBook Air cuts too many corners
					

Overall testing suggests the cheapest version of Apple's new Air is a long way behind its more expensive sibling, although we were surprised by impressive scores in a few areas.




					www.macworld.com


----------



## DT

SuperMatt said:


> If it hasn’t shipped, you might want to consider increasing the SSD storage, for the speed boost you will get…




It should be totally fine, her use won't be affected by storage speed, in fact, I could probably have gone with just 8GB, but she does do a lot of big graphics, run some bigger-ish games, tends to have several apps open at once - I figured RAM/GPU was worth it, disk less so - and the display and few other improvements make it well worth the price (at matched specs) vs. an M1 machine.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> ** BOOM **
> 
> Done, and I should have saved ~$100 for no tax week in Florida, plus $50 cashback, so for ~$1450, pretty happy.  I decided to purchase just the machine and I'll get AC+ as a different transaction since the purchase cap is $1500 for the tax break.
> 
> *Showing Aug 19th - Aug 26th delivery date.*





Went from the date above for 4 days, through processing, then went into Preparing to Ship Friday, and then Sunday night, we get this 







But it's even better, according to UPS:






8 days order to delivery 


Same thing happened with my Tesla last year, people talking about 30-60  days (or more) delivery times, I place an order on a Friday, I get the "Schedule your pickup" the following Thu (I wound up waiting till Sunday, but could've been just a week order to delivery)

Must be my mediocre super power ...


----------



## DT

Geez, no hard cases/shells shipping yet.  I put a couple on order, maybe one will show sooner than later.

The main thing I need to do, before I even unbox it (if possible), is get AC+ on it, so avoid another MBP mishap.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Went from the date above for 4 days, through processing, then went into Preparing to Ship Friday, and then Sunday night, we get this
> 
> View attachment 16488
> 
> 
> 
> But it's even better, according to UPS:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16489
> 8 days order to delivery
> 
> 
> Same thing happened with my Tesla last year, people talking about 30-60  days (or more) delivery times, I place an order on a Friday, I get the "Schedule your pickup" the following Thu (I wound up waiting till Sunday, but could've been just a week order to delivery)
> 
> Must be my mediocre super power ...





Ummm ...  






[edit]

When I posted the shipment progress above, it was indicating a delivery date of Aug 12 / Friday, but checked just now (T asked ...) now it's tomorrow ...


----------



## Yoused

Well, 5am on the 11th in South Korea is about 1pm on the 10th in Florida, so it is not inconceivable that you could get it tomorrow. Word is, those M2 thingies are _fast_.


----------



## DT

Yoused said:


> Word is, those M2 thingies are _fast_.




Yeah, I want one, or a M1<something>, I might have to pick up a Winders™ notebook.  I'm looking to immerse myself in a couple of projects for several months, with the option for portable work, and yes, maybe some gaming.  I'll leave my Mini setup on the other desk the office, remote over to it as needed, use the M1 or M2 MBA when I want to just knock around, manage some photos, want a lightweight road machine for communication.


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## Yoused

DT said:


> I might have to pick up a Winders™ notebook



How did that old song go,

_*You got a brand new Winders notebook,
I got a brand new key …*_​

(How long does the spring last in those things, anyway?)


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## DT

Yoused said:


> How did that old song go,
> 
> _*You got a brand new Winders notebook,*_​_*I got a brand new key …*_​
> 
> (How long does the spring last in those things, anyway?)




Please tell me you've seen the Apocalyptic DJ sketch from the new Kids in the Hall season?









						Dave Foley takes us behind-the-scenes of 'Kids in the Hall' breakout sketch 'Doomsday DJ'
					

Dave Foley has no idea why everyone loves 'Kids in the Hall' break-out sketch 'Doomsday DJ.'




					ew.com
				




(Video at the top)


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## DT

DT said:


> When I posted the shipment progress above, it was indicating a delivery date of Aug 12 / Friday, but checked just now (T asked ...) now it's tomorrow ...
> 
> View attachment 16610





Then this happened at 11:30a my time   





Which actually made sense based on the tracking, it wasn't near here this morning it has just left Alaska.

Hahaha, but at 12:48p this update came in:







We should've setup a betting pool for when this arrives!


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## Colstan

DT said:


> Then this happened at 11:30a my time



This has been quite the saga to behold. We all know what it's like, sitting around thrumming your fingers, while waiting for a package to arrive, repeatedly hitting the refresh button on the tracking site. I truly hope you are pleased with your purchase. I still use an i3 2018 Mac mini, like a savage. I'm waiting for the M3 generation, but I'm constantly being tempting.


DT said:


> We should've setup a betting pool for when this arrives!



I'm going with 13 o'clock.


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## DT

Hahaha, it's really OK, it's the little G's replacement machine*, she doesn't need it immediately, and we have an M1 MBP hooked up to external display/kb/mouse (bad internal display) and another machine, the wife's MBA (M1), I didn't even plan on this being in hand till later next week.

One of the two clear cases actually shipped!





The other is still pending, probably let it ship too, they're inexpensive:






* I'll use it when we're all traveling together for a general purpose machine if she being it along.


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## DT




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## DT

Hahaha, yeah, given this:





Where it only just arrived in KY late last night, I figured it wasn't happening yesterday, even though it was still showing delivery by 7p (snicker) 

But this morning, progress!






Not quite OFD, but very close   That UPS facility is like 10 miles away.

[edit]








[edit]

UPS tracking flipped over to map view, it's like 10 blocks away 

10 blocks took 1-1/2 hours ... but at last ...


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## DT

Wow, this is a beautiful color!  It's not sliver, or gold, it's like a warm, bright sliver.

Migration assistant, 9+ hours, hahaha, WTF, nevermind, T said there was nothing on the M1 machine anyway.

DT


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## Citysnaps

DT said:


> Wow, this is a beautiful color!  It's not sliver, or gold, it's like a warm, bright sliver.
> 
> Migration assistant, 9+ hours, hahaha, WTF, nevermind, T said there was nothing on the M1 machine anyway.
> 
> DT




Congratulations on receiving your new Mac!

I'm still on the fence using migration assistant or doing a clean install on a recently purchased Mac - and thus have been delaying the decision.

Looking forward to your comments on how migration assistant worked out for you after it's finished.


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## Cmaier

citypix said:


> Congratulations on receiving your new Mac!
> 
> I'm still on the fence using migration assistant or doing a clean install on a recently purchased Mac - and thus have been delaying the decision.
> 
> Looking forward to your comments on how migration assistant worked out for you after it's finished.



Last several times I’ve had to move myself or a family member to a new mac I’ve used migration assistant with an external SSD onto which I backed up the old machine using carbon copy cloner.  It goes very fast that way, as long as the SSD is thunderbolt.


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## DT

Only 20 minutes now, I guess it got into high gear 

There was only a few apps, and all the Safari stuff would've sync'ed up through iCloud, a migration probably wasn't needed.

Even before we opened it , I added some AC+, used the SN from the box. Wow, did I feel better after that confirmation email came through. 

It got delivered, we picked up the T from school, hit up Cafe 11 for some Boba Tea, beer and early dinner, she was pretty stoked when we got home as you might imagine.

Mag Safe is so nice to see again, even the cable is nicer than the previous M1 machines (it's nylon), I went with the standard USB-C charger since other options added 2-3 weeks to the delivery date, we can alway add an Anker 60w PD charger later, though we already have a couple around here.


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## Citysnaps

Cmaier said:


> Last several times I’ve had to move myself or a family member to a new mac I’ve used migration assistant with an external SSD onto which I backed up the old machine using carbon copy cloner.  It goes very fast that way, as long as the SSD is thunderbolt.




Thanks...  I have both recent CCC and TM backups from my 5K iMac ready to go. And I could connect both via direct Ethernet cable.

Just taking the decision slowly not wanting to somehow doing something dumb. Like unintentionally loading up my new Mac with a bunch of system folders junk from multiple previous migrations that might sneak over. Thinking maybe now's the time to really start fresh. OTOH, I know I worry way too much about stuff like this, so...


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## Cmaier

citypix said:


> Thanks...  I have both recent CCC and TM backups from my 5K iMac ready to go. And I could connect both via direct Ethernet cable.
> 
> Just taking the decision slowly not wanting to somehow doing something dumb. Like unintentionally loading up my new Mac with a bunch of system folders junk from multiple previous migrations that might sneak over. Thinking maybe now's the time to really start fresh. OTOH, I know I worry way too much about stuff like this, so...




I literally have apps from 2003 on my mac that are powerpc and won’t run. So what? Anything harmful gets segregated out by the OS.


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## Citysnaps

Cmaier said:


> I literally have apps from 2003 on my mac that are powerpc and won’t run. So what? Anything harmful gets segregated out by the OS.




Yeah...  Just a shame to waste space on a brand new internal SSD.  I guess I could do migration assistant and then *carefully* remove stuff that's obviously old over time with a bit of thought. I had a PPC Mac Pro ages ago. And a Mac IIci, though I'm pretty sure I didn't migrate that stuff over.

I assume any new apps/files I've added to the new Mac won't be bothered, right?

My old 5K iMac internal disk is a 1 TB SSD, but CCC'd to a "fast-ish" spinning disk via USB 3 port.

My LR-organized photos are on a different spinning disk - which I would continue to use on the new machine.


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## Citysnaps

citypix said:


> I assume any new apps/files I've added to the new Mac won't be bothered, right?




Also... I'm wondering if since I've already set up a user account (which creates a new User folder and Apple ID) on my new Mac, if that's going to be a problem with Migration Assistant moving the contents of the User folder on my old Mac to my new Mac.

Any thoughts?


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## Cmaier

citypix said:


> Also... I'm wondering if since I've already set up a user account (which creates a new User folder and Apple ID) on my new Mac, if that's going to be a problem with Migration Assistant moving the contents of the User folder on my old Mac to my new Mac.
> 
> Any thoughts?



I can’t recall for sure but I believe you have the option to move the existing account out of the way (creating a second account) or to merge.


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## jbailey

DT said:


> There was only a few apps, and all the Safari stuff would've sync'ed up through iCloud, a migration probably wasn't needed.




When I got the M2 MacBook Air I didn’t bother with migration. All my development stuff is on GitHub and all of my personal files are in iCloud and download automatically. I installed a few apps, entered a few license keys and I was good to go. Over time I’ve had to adjust a few preferences but that also isn’t much of a problem since they are my preferences.

I definitely saved myself several hours by not using migration assistant.



DT said:


> Mag Safe is so nice to see again, even the cable is nicer than the previous M1 machines (it's nylon), I went with the standard USB-C charger since other options added 2-3 weeks to the delivery date, we can alway add an Anker 60w PD charger later, though we already have a couple around here.




I use my MacBook Air with a dock connected to a 4K display. The USB-C dock charges and connects over a single USB-C cable. I haven’t even unwrapped the dual USB-C charger or the MagSafe cable that came with the M2. I’d prefer if Apple would make the charger optional with maybe a small gift card as reimbursement. I have no use for it.


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## DT

jbailey said:


> I definitely saved myself several hours by not using migration assistant.




I could've done either, this is the daughters new machine, and I didn't want her to miss anything from the old even though "She didn't have much", it was 10 minutes of my "real time" and checking back in a couple of hours 

We made drinks, we turned on EPs 7 and 8 of Sandman, when we were done, it was done, I hollered up at T to come check things out 




jbailey said:


> I use my MacBook Air with a dock connected to a 4K display. The USB-C dock charges and connects over a single USB-C cable. I haven’t even unwrapped the dual USB-C charger or the MagSafe cable that came with the M2. I’d prefer if Apple would make the charger optional with maybe a small gift card as reimbursement. I have no use for it.




Yeah, I always run my notebooks docked in some capacity, again, the daughters machine, so I appreciated the beefier and less "accident enabling" charging setup


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## DT

She wanted to do stickers and suggested a clear case to show off the machine and allow stickers without actually applying them directly to the machine.

Ordered 2, this one showed first, $20 for top, bottom, a set of replacement rubber-footsies, and a screen/KB cover that won't be used - pretty perfect fitment, super clear, will protect the machine and accommodate the sticker requirement


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## Roller

Cmaier said:


> Last several times I’ve had to move myself or a family member to a new mac I’ve used migration assistant with an external SSD onto which I backed up the old machine using carbon copy cloner.  It goes very fast that way, as long as the SSD is thunderbolt.



I did the same, but used an SSD connected via USB C. I migrated everything but third-party apps, which I downloaded and re-installed. The migration process went quickly, and handling the apps separately let me decide which ones I no longer needed.


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## Citysnaps

Roller said:


> I migrated everything but third-party apps, which I downloaded and re-installed.




Just so I know ahead of time... does that mean migration assistant lets you pick and choose which 3rd party apps to not transfer? Or is it all 3rd party apps on your old Mac to not transfer?  Thanks.

I have a 2 TB USB-C SSD on order I should be getting tomorrow and will use for migration. After that, I'll use it for one of my backup disks on my new Mac.


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## Colstan

Cmaier said:


> I literally have apps from 2003 on my mac that are powerpc and won’t run. So what? Anything harmful gets segregated out by the OS.



I admit that it tickles me whenever you mention this. Engineers, by nature, have orderly minds. On this forum we often complain about the decades of cruft that are still extant in x86 land, particularly in the ISA, but also within Windows itself. I'm not one of those people who obsessively reinstalls an OS every year to clean out the imaginary detritus, but when I do purchase a new computer, I move everything over by hand because I like to start fresh, while deleting anything unnecessary.

Back during the dark days of being a Windows user, I would typically reinstall Windows every six months or so. I don't know if modern Windows suffers from it, but WinXP would slow down and clog itself up without any assistance from the user. This was particularly bad for gamers, with new drivers being constantly updated, and Microsoft's own updates somehow nuking themselves, never mind the spaghetti code to drive third-party peripherals. One of the many benefits of switching to the Mac was no longer having to worry about the operating system slowly degrading itself.

Not that macOS is always perfect, in that regard. I hung onto Mojave on my 2018 Mac mini until security patches ran dry. When I updated from Mojave to Big Sur, something happened with Safari, after the update, where it was endlessly eating up half the CPU with the anemic i3 housed within my mini. I could never diagnose the issue, other than it was constant after launching Safari, and would only stop eating up 50% of CPU cycles upon force quitting it. I used Time Machine to go back to Mojave. A month or so later, Monterey was released, updated to that, and haven't experienced that issue since. I still have no idea what caused it, but a mysterious leftover from the Mojave install was plaguing Safari, despite the immutable Signed System Volume introduced with Big Sur.

So, while indeed rare, there's always a chance that leftovers, from what I presume to be third-party installs of days gone by, can impact performance after a major macOS version update. I had assumed that it was the remnants of a misbehaving Safari extension, but the only one I use is Adguard for Safari, and that's regularly updated and hardly an obscure, poorly behaved work of code craft.

Hence, I find it amusing that an accomplished engineer of @Cmaier's talents may still have 32-bit PPC code lurking somewhere within his M1 Macs, but also irritates the minor OCD I have in regards to the matter. I've got plenty of old crap still sitting on my 2018 Mac mini's internal SSD, such as save files from 32-bit games that I can't run anymore, but those will all be weeded out by hand, whenever I finally move over to the brave new Apple Silicon future.


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## lizkat

I used to do clean installs of any major MacOS and then got lazy when I hung onto a mid-2012 MBP "tank" for a long time.  I'd just clone the machine onto a couple of drives for insurance and then run the upgrade.  Once in awhile a re-up on some third party app would leave parts of its prior self hanging around and the occasional glance into library folders made me blanch even if I didn't suspect leftovers from updates and worse, uninstalls,  were causing any problems I might have been experiencing on occasion.   I told myself worst case there could be some wasted space but so what.

Still when I got my 2020 MBA I vowed to do clean installs,  but then told myself well the installers are so much better now, just back up on TM and run the thing.   Ugh.  The install of Monterey ran like a charm but I didn't happen to like what Apple did to the Books app in that release.  That app is embedded with the OS, i.e., not made to be compatible with various OS versions like say Keynote or Numbers...  and the change in features and functionality of Books app really mattered to me, so back I decided to go.    But reverting was a PITA because for some reason it made me go back to Catalina before I could get to Big Sur again.

 I probably haven't learned anything though...  it's likely that I'll eventually just back up and then upgrade the machine to Ventura!   Well maybe this time I'll have sense to add an insurance clone first. Sadly enough, my solution to future problems with the Books app leans to just not buying any more ebooks from the Apple store,  and using an external homebrew catalogue to manage metadata in all my ebooks regardless of platform.  Talk about PITA.


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## Roller

citypix said:


> Just so I know ahead of time... does that mean migration assistant lets you pick and choose which 3rd party apps to not transfer? Or is it all 3rd party apps on your old Mac to not transfer?  Thanks.
> 
> I have a 2 TB USB-C SSD on order I should be getting tomorrow and will use for migration. After that, I'll use it for one of my backup disks on my new Mac.



No, I don't think it lets you choose which apps to transfer. IIRC, it was all or none.


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