# 2021 MLB playoffs



## Herdfan

Instead of clog up the "What did I do today" thread with baseball which only a few of us respond to, I made a thread.

So here is where we are at posting:

ALCS
Red Sox lead series 2-1 over Houston.

Game 4 is tonight in Boston.

NLCS
Braves lead Dodgers 2-0 and are up 5-2 in G3.


I have probably never been as intrigued by a single at-bat as I was last night by Verdugo (BOS).  He worked an 0-2 count into an 11 pitch walk.  Baseball has a beauty to it that no other sport can match.


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## lizkat

Yeah so two days later the Dodgers better get it together tonight, although it's actually Atlanta feeling the pressure,they would love to wrap it on the upside already,  both teams have déja vu sensations from last year.

2-1 Atlanta after a homer puts the Dodgers on the board, and the next pitch goes to a line drive and puts a Dodger on first and the next pitch is hit over the wall and now its Dodgers 3-2.    "It happens fast".... lol

EDIT:  now 7-2 Dodgers in the 7th,  they might pull this off...

EDIT:  8-2 Dodgers in the 8th,  keepin' it warm.    Every starting Dodger in the hitters' lineup has been on the baselines at least once.    Oops, well another homer with two on,   now it's Dodgers 11-2 still in the 8th.

And that's it, Dodgers win it 11-2.   On to Atlanta Saturday night!


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## Joe

Hoping the Astros end it tonight against Boston and Atlanta ends it next game.


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## lizkat

JagRunner said:


> Hoping the Astros end it tonight against Boston and Atlanta ends it next game.





Heh, well...   that way at least I wouldn't have to decide whether to root for Boston or LA in the World Series.


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## lizkat

Watching Boston at Houston...   time for Boston to bring some runs home or rack up the season...

EDIT:    Boston remains scoreless after eight innings.    Boston peaked in game 3, and now haven't scored in about 25 innings...  pathetic.

Oh man,  now 5-0 Houson in the 8th...   homer w/ 2 on.     Astros deserve to go to the series.

And that's it for the final.  Long flight home for the Red Sox...


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## Joe

‘Stros! 4 more. Let’s get it!


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## lizkat

JagRunner said:


> ‘Stros! 4 more. Let’s get it!




Don't count World Series chickens before the eggs hatch...  they might look like they're from farther out west than Texas.


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## Herdfan

The Astro's are really good.  Not surprised they are in the WS.

As for the NL team, I was leaning Dodgers even though the Braves were up 3-2 but were going to have to face Scherzer and Buehler in back to back games.  But just read Scherzer is out for tonight's game so it looks like it may be a bullpen game for both teams.  I certainly wouldn't move Buehler up on short rest, so no idea who the Dodgers are going to have on the mound.  

So even though Vegas has the Dodgers as a -177/+162 favorite, I am going to call it a toss up.


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## lizkat

It's beisbol.  Anything can happen.


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## Herdfan

Dodgers are starting Buehler on short rest.  Just don't know even though he pitched great the last time in G4 of the NLDS on short rest.


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> Dodgers are starting Buehler on short rest.  Just don't know even though he pitched great the last time in G4 of the NLDS on short rest.




It's tricky.  They could really use Buehler in a game 7 but first they have to make sure there'll even *be* a game 7, so... 

So they went with him now,  hoping he can help keep them from being eliminated tonight.        I guess that makes sense...   anyway a bullpen game is what all these contests seem to devolve into now.   But the Dodgers also have other short term pitching staff issues.   And since that's the case, if I were Dave Roberts then I might have settled on Buehler tonight too.  Start with best of what's on tap for this crucial game and try to stay in contention.

Roberts will be probably be second-guessed later on his pitching decisions no matter what he does tonight -- If LA loses and it's because of Atlanta bats,  or if LA wins tonight but they come up short on pitching depth in a game 7. 

Thankless job anyway, managing a major league team.  Notice the Astros' owner Jim Crane certainly praised Dusty Baker on the team's division win, but he also used weasel words in there like "I don’t think there is any reason we wouldn’t visit about [a new contract] after the World Series … I love Dusty."
(Washington Post piece by Dave Sheinin)


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## Herdfan

lizkat said:


> I love Dusty."




So do I.  Grew up watching him play, mainly for the Dodgers in their battles with the Reds for the NL Pennant.  Around that time we had just gotten cable and 3 of the channels were WTBS, WGN and WXIX (Cincinnati) so I got to watch a lot of baseball as a kid.  He was a great player.  Either way, he will manage in the WS against one of the two teams he is most known for from his playing days.

Random footnote:  He was in the on-deck circle when Hank hit 714 for the Braves.


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## lizkat

This game,wow.   Well at least the Dodgers managed to strand the Braves with the bases loaded just now.   So could be worse for LA.

But the Braves are playing like they've tried on World Series rings....

EDIT:    sigh....  well OK I got a temporary sub to the Atlanta Journal Constitution so I can keep up with the Braves' hometown take on the Series...


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## Joe

‘Stros vs Atlanta


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## ronntaylor

JagRunner said:


> ‘Stros vs Atlanta



A friend is calling it: Cheaters vs Chokers


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## Herdfan

ronntaylor said:


> A friend is calling it: Cheaters vs Chokers




I watch/listen to quite a bit of sports talk and when playoffs get down to the last 4 teams or so, there is always a segment about who the league office wants in the finals.  Usually it is based on market size, like the NBA would prefer something like Lakers/Nets over OKC/Indy.

I can't think the MLB offices are happy with this matchup either.  On one hand as pointed out, you have the cheaters, but you also might just have to present the Commissioner's Trophy to the Braves in Atlanta, the city you moved the AS Game from over voting laws.  

Me thinks MLB would rather have had the Sox/Dodgers.


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## lizkat

ronntaylor said:


> A friend is calling it: Cheaters vs Chokers




Harsh but where there's been fire there's still that lingering smoke.....  I'll watch with the sort of detachment only a fan of Boston and LA can summon up for the occasion...


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## Joe

ronntaylor said:


> A friend is calling it: Cheaters vs Chokers




 Go ‘Stros!


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## ronntaylor

lizkat said:


> Harsh but where there's been fire there's still that lingering smoke.....  I'll watch with the sort of detachment only a fan of Boston and LA can summon up for the occasion...



I usually root for the AL team since I'm a Yankees fan. But I've always hated the Sox and now the 'Stros nearly as much. I tease my younger siblings that live in the Atlanta area about how often their team chokes. But I will probably semi-root for the Atlanta team since one of them is (was?) a season ticket holder.


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## Herdfan

ronntaylor said:


> I usually root for the AL team since I'm a Yankees fan. But I've always hated the Sox and now the 'Stros nearly as much. I tease my younger siblings that live in the Atlanta area about how often their team chokes. But I will probably semi-root for the Atlanta team since one of them is (was?) a season ticket holder.




Just pretend the Astros are still in the NL.


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> Just pretend the Astros are still in the NL.




Heh,  a second division contest instead of a World Series?  Sounds right for the both of them.


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## Herdfan

lizkat said:


> Heh,  a second division contest instead of a World Series?  Sounds right for the both of them.




What ?  Remember the NL is the older league by 25 years or so.


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## Joe

I'm an Astros fan, but it's weird because I actually grew up watching a lot of Braves baseball. TBS was one of the few channels I had as a kid in my podunk hometown and they showed all of the Braves games.


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> What ?  Remember the NL is the older league by 25 years or so.



Yeah but if we're pretending Houston's in the NL and they're still going to be playing Atlanta next week,  then it's a division championship bc Atlanta really IS in today's NL.




JagRunner said:


> I'm an Astros fan, but it's weird because I actually grew up watching a lot of Braves baseball. TBS was one of the few channels I had as a kid in my podunk hometown and they showed all of the Braves games.




In middle school I used to ride my bike with friends or sibs from a northern suburb of Rochester down to what was then the Rochester Red Wings' home turf at Silver Stadium in the city for Triple-A games.

We always had a blast and the players were great with kids back then, acting more like some of the AA ball players do now, not even laughing at us when we asked them after the games to sign foul balls they had hit into the stands.

Our dream, of course, was to get a home run ball signed by some player who'd be called up to St. Louis someday and we'd actually see him on TV sometime, instead of just in real life in the minors.   That sorta came true for us when a fielder/catcher named Gene Green went up to the Cardinals, and we treasured his baseball cards as he was traded to several other MLB teams over the years.   But back in his Triple-A days he wasn't quite the hitter he became later on, so all we had in the way of mementos from his time in the minors were some scrawled signatures in autograph books.  No homers or fouls hit into the parking lot, sigh...

The Red Wings were part of the Cardinals' farm system back then, and remain in the history books to this day (along with the Pawtucket, RI Red Sox) for having played through the longest professional baseball game, that ran to 33 innings over 2 days in April plus a finale arranged for June 23, 1961. The total playing time was 8 hours 25 minutes... and Pawtucket finally won it 3-2. But by then I had gone off to college and so didn't even hear about that game until decades later!


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## Herdfan

Astros are the favorites at -150/+125.


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> Astros are the favorites at -150/+125.




Well... heh...  I guess there's still time for the Astros to overcome a 5-1 Atlanta lead at the moment, but the Braves did bring their bats tonight.


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## Herdfan

lizkat said:


> Well... heh...  I guess there's still time for the Astros to overcome a 5-1 Atlanta lead at the moment, but the Braves did bring their bats tonight.




And lost a solid pitcher.   It was a pretty good game though.


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## Joe

It ain't over yet lol


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## Herdfan

JagRunner said:


> It ain't over yet lol



Not by a long shot.

I think it was Earl Weaver who said "Momentum in baseball is tomorrow's starting pitcher".


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> Not by a long shot.
> 
> I think it was Earl Weaver who said "Momentum in baseball is tomorrow's starting pitcher".




Momentum (or loss of it) in last night's game tended to center around a couple of difficult infield plays, calls on a couple close slides, a call on a check-swing and a ball hit to just below the yellow line on the right field wall.  Can't complain about any of it on balance and it was exciting to watch. 

That game may have been more fun to watch when not really caring who would win,  and that was where I was coming from.

Sorry to read about Charlie Morton's broken leg though.  Getting hit by a 102mph line drive hardball does seem like could break a leg, or rather (as has been suggested) _nearly_ break it -- and then the fracture itself apparently developed over the stress from those next 16 pitches the guy threw, until the one that was finally too much, when he had struck out Altuve but then noticeably was in pain and had to exit the game in the third inning. Strange, and sad.


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## Herdfan

lizkat said:


> Sorry to read about Charlie Morton's broken leg though.  Getting hit by a 102mph line drive hardball does seem like could break a leg, or rather (as has been suggested) _nearly_ break it -- and then the fracture itself apparently developed over the stress from those next 16 pitches the guy threw, until the one that was finally too much, when he had struck out Altuve but then noticeably was in pain and had to exit the game in the third inning. Strange, and sad.




If the Braves go on to win it, the lore of him pitching with a broken leg will be right up there with Schilling's bloody sock.

I was never hit by a 102, but 90+ hurts like hell.  And that was on the back of my thigh, not on bone.


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## Herdfan

And while not playoff related, the Cleveland Indians plans to change their name just hit a roadblock:









						Roller derby team sues over Guardians name use
					

A roller derby team that has called itself the Cleveland Guardians since 2013 is suing the city's Major League Baseball team for trademark infringement.




					www.espn.com
				




Do these teams not have attorneys to look into these things?


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> And while not playoff related, the Cleveland Indians plans to change their name just hit a roadblock:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roller derby team sues over Guardians name use
> 
> 
> A roller derby team that has called itself the Cleveland Guardians since 2013 is suing the city's Major League Baseball team for trademark infringement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.espn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do these teams not have attorneys to look into these things?




Well the Cleveland attorneys did go to some amazing lengths (to Mauritius for god's sake!) to file its paperwork, which suggests they did know there was a problem, or would be a problem with trying to appropriate "Guardians" as a sports team's name in Cleveland.

Not everyone was a fan of the Indians adopting Cleveland Guardians as a new name anyway.  Maybe now they should at least christen their legal team "The Dodo Birds". 

The dodo species of bird made its only home on the island of Mauritius before fading into extinction. 

 And you're right: the Cleveland Indians need a new set of lawyers.

 Whatever happened to legal counsel doing its job when push comes to shove and it's time to tell the board of directors that "this name choice won't work out well in the end."


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## ronntaylor

Herdfan said:


> Do these teams not have attorneys to look into these things?






lizkat said:


> And you're right: the Cleveland Indians need a new set of lawyers.
> 
> Whatever happened to legal counsel doing its job when push comes to shove and it's time to tell the board of directors that "this name choice won't work out well in the end."



IIRC, some legal experts said that the roller derby team will have a helluva time winning since they essentially filed for TM *after* the baseball team, were not active for ~2 years, and there is no likelihood of confusion between the teams.


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## lizkat

ronntaylor said:


> IIRC, some legal experts said that the roller derby team will have a helluva time winning since they essentially filed for TM *after* the baseball team, were not active for ~2 years, and there is no likelihood of confusion between the teams.




Color me disappointed.  I'm not a fan of Guardians as the new name.  I don't have a better suggestion though...

EDIT:   welp, that's game 2.    7-2 Astros...    Even up now on the Series...   on to Atlanta Friday...


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## ronntaylor

lizkat said:


> Color me disappointed.  I'm not a fan of Guardians as the new name.  I don't have a better suggestion though...
> 
> EDIT:   welp, that's game 2.    7-2 Astros...    Even up now on the Series...   on to Atlanta Friday...



I actually wanted them to reuse Cleveland Spiders. I don't like most new names for sports team. Mighty Ducks. Predators. Red Bulls. Sky. Guardians is relatively tame and I understand why the owners prefer it over other suggestions.


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## Herdfan

ronntaylor said:


> I actually wanted them to reuse Cleveland Spiders. I don't like most new names for sports team. Mighty Ducks. Predators. Red Bulls. Sky. Guardians is relatively tame and I understand why the owners prefer it over other suggestions.




Don't forget the newest team, The Kraken. 

Spiders would have been awesome.  They could have had so much fun with that at the stadium.


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## Joe

Best of 5 now!


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## lizkat

I'm gonna go with Atlanta...   how can you not like guys who asked for a soft-serve ice cream machine to be installed in their clubhouse (after sampling the wares of one in the visitors' clubhouse in Boston once during a rain-break)?  Yeah!









						To Save a Swirling Season, Atlanta Turned to Soft Serve (Published 2021)
					

Atlanta has been praised for its shrewd deadline trades. Braves players credit their resurgence to a midseason pickup that produces day after day.




					www.nytimes.com


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## lizkat

Maybe the Braves should have asked for a hot cocoa machine instead of a soft-serve ice cream machine in their clubhouse, since the weather dropped off cold in Atlanta in time for Game 3 of the World Series.  but never mind, Atlanta managed to beat Houston 2-0 anyway.    

Imagine being a 23-year old rookie pitcher throwing a no-hitter in a World Series game for five innings before being removed after 76 pitches (not for getting swarmed by bats but just out of concern the kid would tire and serve up a fat pitch or two and end up helping lose a key game at home).    Performance by Ian Anderson was amazing.



> Anderson is the first rookie to log five no-hit innings in a World Series game since 1912. He tied the longest no-hit bid by a Braves pitcher in the World Series, equaling Tom Glavine’s six no-hit innings in the aforementioned Game 6 of 1995. Only Bill James carried a deeper no-hitter, going 5-1/3 innings in Game 2 of the 1914 series, according to MLB statistician Sarah Langs.






			https://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/ian-anderson-braves-relievers-stifle-astros-in-game-3-win


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## lizkat

Good game 4 in Atlanta tonight. Consecutive homers in the 7th let the Braves take the lead 3-2, which they held  to take the game.

So the series is now 3-1 Atlanta.  If they win again tomorrow night they can skip a trip to Texas next week to nail down the championship.


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## Joe

It’s not over yet. But the fat lady is warming up! Go Stros!


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## lizkat

JagRunner said:


> It’s not over yet. But the fat lady is warming up! Go Stros!




Hah, what they need is for the WEATHER to warm up in Atlanta.  A little better on that angle today, still a chilly evening ahead.


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## lizkat

lol headline in the Atlanta newspaper today


​


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## lizkat

Heh, grand slam homer in the 1st for Atlanta.  The Astros might need a hand from NASA tonight.

EDIT:  lotta drama for only the third inning.  Houston got caught up to 4-4 and now Atlanta's managed to make it 5-4...

EDIT:   This one of the more fun to watch games bc of a see-sawing score...  now Houston has it at 8-5,  Braves need to bear down.

And it's a series that's still alive for both teams with Houston coming back to wrap this one 9-5.

So a happy Halloween after all for the Astros.    They'd probably like to keep the momentum going now but everybody gets a day off for the trip to Texas with the series at 3-2.


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## Joe

Let's get it HTown!


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## lizkat

JagRunner said:


> Let's get it HTown!




Atlanta's secret sauce for game 6 = starter Max Fried, despite NYT's (true enough) headline about this being a series of relievers.









						A World Series of Relievers, Like It or Not
					

Injuries have forced things to extremes for both Houston and Atlanta, with bullpens accounting for more than 60 percent of all innings pitched. This was not by design.




					www.nytimes.com
				






> Fried lost Game 2 but was not hit hard, and he even faced two batters in the sixth inning. After patching together two bullpen games, Manager Brian Snitker should have it easier with Fried on Tuesday.
> 
> “He’s ready to go,” Snitker said after Game 5. “We had him in reserve if something happened today. If we got locked up in extra innings or whatever, we were going to run him down there and possibly use him today also. I always feel good when Max pitches. He always gives you a chance to win.”




Well another good thing past Max Fried that the Braves have going for them is this:  unlike Houston, Atlanta only has to win one of the two Texas games.  Not saying they'll manage to do it,  since the Astros are pretty revved up now,  but at least the Braves have already proven once in this series that they _can_ win a game in Houston. Time will tell if they can do it again or if Atlanta fans will be clutching their pearl chokers in a game 7.


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## Herdfan

Looks like Houston is going to start Garcia on short rest in G6 tonight.









						Astros to start Garcia on short rest in Game 6
					

Astros manager Dusty Baker said Monday that he will start rookie Luis Garcia in Game 6 of the World Series with his team facing elimination.




					www.espn.com
				




So far pitchers on short rest have done pretty well, but there is a reason it isn't done often.


lizkat said:


> Atlanta's secret sauce for game 6 = starter Max Fried, despite NYT's (true enough) headline about this being a series of relievers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A World Series of Relievers, Like It or Not
> 
> 
> Injuries have forced things to extremes for both Houston and Atlanta, with bullpens accounting for more than 60 percent of all innings pitched. This was not by design.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well another good thing past Max Fried that the Braves have going for them is this:  unlike Houston, Atlanta only has to win one of the two Texas games.  Not saying they'll manage to do it,  since the Astros are pretty revved up now,  but at least the Braves have already proven once in this series that they _can_ win a game in Houston. Time will tell if they can do it again or if Atlanta fans will be clutching their pearl chokers in a game 7.




The statisticians have taken "Moneyball" to a whole new level.  I remember back when I was playing, I was never a fan of dugout calls to take or swing.  I can't imagine what it would be like today where every single pitch is micromanged by the GM and his statisticians.  Now teams are starting closers to get them through the top of the lineup and then bring in pitchers for 1-3 innings so that hitters never get to see the same pitcher twice.  How long before teams start spreading their top hitters throughout their lineup?


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> How long before teams start spreading their top hitters throughout their lineup?




And I still can't get used to seeing players and coaches studying their iPads in the dugout...

Hah, yeah, what good is it to spend time making a batting lineup when sometimes they even bring in another reliever to pitch just part of a frame -- and not at the end of the game or with bases loaded and 2 out, but just because they have studied all the matchups and they want this guy to pitch to that batter at the bottom of the 3rd.  If they're gonna go that route more and more often, then they might as well just have it all be bots on an app you can buy.

But that stuff is sometimes still derailed by the ball, the bat, the breeze...  and all that can still make the game so special:  there's sometimes nothing left to do but roll eyes and face the music when a ball takes a spinning hop to elude a glove, or skids into the grass in midfield when the batter is known to swing for the fences.


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## Herdfan

lizkat said:


> And I still can't get used to seeing players and coaches studying their iPads in the dugout...
> 
> Hah, yeah, what good is it to spend time making a batting lineup when sometimes they even bring in another reliever to pitch just part of a frame -- and not at the end of the game or with bases loaded and 2 out, but just because they have studied all the matchups and they want this guy to pitch to that batter at the bottom of the 3rd.  If they're gonna go that route more and more often, then they might as well just have it all be bots on an app you can buy.
> 
> But that stuff is sometimes still derailed by the ball, the bat, the breeze...  and all that can still make the game so special:  there's sometimes nothing left to do but roll eyes and face the music when a ball takes a spinning hop to elude a glove, or skids into the grass in midfield when the batter is known to swing for the fences.



LOL.

The one thing that gets a lot of attention is when the infield shifts, basically moving the SS or 2B to the other side of the infield and the 1B or 3B basically playing behind 2nd.  Sportswriters hate this, but the solution is simple, find a HS or college softball player and have them teach MLB hitters to slap the ball in the hole.  That would put a quick stop to it.

And yes, the game is special.  I think the MOST special of all the major sports.


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## lizkat

Atlanta doin' their homers thing early again.   Maybe this time their leading score will stick!

edit:   6-0 now middle of the 5th...   might be hard for the Astros to launch a recovery at this point.


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## Herdfan

lizkat said:


> Atlanta doin' their homers thing early again.   Maybe this time their leading score will stick!
> 
> edit:   6-0 now middle of the 5th...   might be hard for the Astros to launch a recovery at this point.




Been flipping back and forth between this game, election results and_ The Rookie_.  Was stunned to see Fried still in the game in the 6th.  

But the Astros will get the meat of their order up again.


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## lizkat

Herdfan said:


> Been flipping back and forth between this game, election results and_ The Rookie_.  Was stunned to see Fried still in the game in the 6th.
> 
> But the Astros will get the meat of their order up again.




But now it's 7-0.    Braves got the mo.

I"m trying to watch the election results too.   Cursing my provider bc dividing up 6Mbps DSL gives me a brief beachball every time I refresh the WaPo on a phone while watching Fox on a laptop.


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## lizkat

Aaaaannnnnnd.   7-0 did stick.  The fat lady has sung.   Atlanta Braves are the world champs of 2021.


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## Joe

Congrats to Atlanta. At least it wasn’t the dodgers.


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## tobefirst

Condolences, @JagRunner. I suggest you drown your sorrows in the best Chocolate Chip cookie I've ever tasted – at Tiny Boxwood's or Tiny's or whatever it is officially called.


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