# WWDC 2021



## Alli

Figured I’d get this started now even though at this point it’s a week away. We’re allowed to make predictions, right? Or at least say what we want from it.

I’m sure hoping all the rumors of a new MB are right. And the os update always has at least one major surprise that everyone goes gaga over.


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## tranceking26

There's gotta be something huge planned for the iPad. They didn't just sling in an M1 and increase the RAM that much for nothing.

Lack of leaks could either be a worry, or a good thing. Can't wait though, last years event was really good.


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## SuperMatt

Prediction:

Apple will release the most powerful personal computer ever made. MR forums will have a 500-page thread about how terrible it is.


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## SuperMatt

tranceking26 said:


> There's gotta be something huge planned for the iPad. They didn't just sling in an M1 and increase the RAM that much for nothing.
> 
> Lack of leaks could either be a worry, or a good thing. Can't wait though, last years event was really good.



I am excited to see innovations for iPad OS. I use an iPad daily.


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## Deleted member 199

Alli said:


> Or at least say what we want from it.



Only if those things can be described in anthropomorphic terms.


So you could for example, say you want a new 27+ inch iMac, but instead of Jay Leno's chin like the 24", you want John Travolta's chin, with the dimple.


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## Deleted member 199

On a serious note. I'm not specifically expecting much in terms of hardware. Having said that, It'd be nice to know I guess, if the 2019 Mac Pro is likely to get a refresh any time soon (and thus I should either hold off, or rush to buy). Still seems like a safer choice for an update, given my current work.

I'm mostly interested to hear what changes are coming to macOS that may affect stuff I use for work.


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## JayMysteri0

I'm not expecting much in the way of hardware either, I would imagine that more of Christmas sales.

I also think a new and/or redesigned Macbook that isn't JUST A 16 inch, is a kick in the nuts to those who just got the last Macbooks.

I would like a more 'full' iPad OS experience.  NOT for me, as I work around with what we have fine, but to shut the F' up the endless whining that people can't do things on an iPad they can do on a laptop.  Because heaven forbid they use A LAPTOP to do LAPTOP stuff on.

Who am I kidding, they could port Mac OS over, and there would still be endless bitching from those same people.


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## Deleted member 199

JayMysteri0 said:


> I'm not expecting much in the way of hardware either, I would imagine that more of Christmas sales.
> 
> I also think a new and/or redesigned Macbook that isn't JUST A 16 inch, is a kick in the nuts to those who just got the last Macbooks.
> 
> I would like a more 'full' iPad OS experience.  NOT for me, as I work around with what we have fine, but to shut the F' up the endless whining that people can't do things on an iPad they can do on a laptop.  Because heaven forbid they use A LAPTOP to do LAPTOP stuff on.
> 
> Who am I kidding, they could port Mac OS over, and there would still be endless bitching from those same people.



The iPad is USB-C only. of course someone will complain.


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## Renzatic

SuperMatt said:


> Prediction:
> 
> Apple will release the most powerful personal computer ever made. MR forums will have a 500-page thread about how terrible it is.




The promo video will show a black lady smiling as she happily uses her new 16" Macbook Pro. Hundreds will wail in response to this blatant display of subversion of white autonomy at the hands of our new woke world order.


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## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> The iPad is USB-C only. of course someone will complain.




BUT I JUST BOUGHT ALL THESE LIGHTNING ACCESSORIES!


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## Deleted member 199

Renzatic said:


> BUT I JUST BOUGHT ALL THESE LIGHTNING ACCESSORIES!



I was expecting complaints that it doesn’t have built in USB-A or a card reader.


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## Runs For Fun

tranceking26 said:


> There's gotta be something huge planned for the iPad. They didn't just sling in an M1 and increase the RAM that much for nothing.
> 
> Lack of leaks could either be a worry, or a good thing. Can't wait though, last years event was really good.



Specifically I'm betting we'll see that 5GB allocation limit removed or increased. I'm sure there's going to be some other big changes coming to iPadOS 15. There's no way they put an M1 in the iPad Pros and made it a big selling point only to keep it handicapped by the OS. I'm also hopeful there might be a surprise hardware announcement. 27" iMac?


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## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> I was expecting complaints that it doesn’t have built in USB-A or a card reader.




Since you brought it up, why DOESN'T the iPad have a built in SD card reader?


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## Deleted member 199

Renzatic said:


> Since you brought it up, why DOESN'T the iPad have a built in SD card reader?



Same reason it doesn’t have built in HDMI I guess?


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## Renzatic

Runs For Fun said:


> Specifically I'm betting we'll see that 5GB allocation limit removed or increased. I'm sure there's going to be some other big changes coming to iPadOS 15. There's no way they put an M1 in the iPad Pros and made it a big selling point only to keep it handicapped by the OS. I'm also hopeful there might be a surprise hardware announcement. 27" iMac?




It really doesn't make sense for Apple to enforce the previous mobile-centric limitations upon the iPad anymore. The only conceivable reason why they'd continue to do so, despite sporting the same hardware as their laptop line up, is because it's cheaper manufacturing a limited set of hardware, but they want to keep it gimped so it's still easy enough for your grandparents to use.


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## tranceking26

Runs For Fun said:


> Specifically I'm betting we'll see that 5GB allocation limit removed or increased.



Yeah that was really strange finding that out.


Runs For Fun said:


> 27" iMac?



I hope so, not that I'm in the market for a new Mac but after the 24" I wanna see what's next. You'd think if Ive had influence on that one, he would have had it on this one too.


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## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> Same reason it doesn’t have built in HDMI I guess?




Well, it has USB-C now.


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## Renzatic

tranceking26 said:


> I hope so, not that I'm in the market for a new Mac but after the 24" I wanna see what's next. You'd think if Ive had influence on that one, he would have had it on this one too.




I've been hearing vague rumors, or rather hopes, that the new, higher end iMacs might sport a 32" screen.


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## DT

iPadOS needs native resolution external display support and of course, continued external peripheral support  (the current implementation is pretty good).

Since it seems to be on deck, I'm kind of assuming the next gen M machines, 10-core with the 16 or 32-core GPUs, 16", maybe a Mini with those specs/options[?]


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## Deleted member 199

Renzatic said:


> Well, it has USB-C now.



That’s the point I was making. The Mac has USB-c ports that can do anything and people complain about it not having <things USB-c can do>

I assumed adding macOS to iPads would just make them complain about the same things


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## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> I assumed adding macOS to iPads would just make them complain about the same things




If there's one thing I learned during my stint on MR (and a goodly chunk of the rest of the internet), it's that some people think that being constantly critical and derisive is a good substitute for having a personality.


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## JayMysteri0

Yeah the 5GB app limit should go, unless it's for stability reasons.  Also so I don't have read anymore of the "Real Housewives of MR" whine that Apple promised them 8 - 16GB with an iPad Pro, so what's it for?  Waah!

The only thing I really would like is the external monitor support that doesn't just mirror, or depend on the app to do the work.

I guess a less awkward file system would-

Cripes!  Now I'm falling down that hole..


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## Deleted member 199

JayMysteri0 said:


> Yeah the 5GB app limit should go, unless it's for stability reasons.  Also so I don't have read anymore of the "Real Housewives of MR" whine that Apple promised them 8 - 16GB with an iPad Pro, so what's it for?  Waah!
> 
> The only thing I really would like is the external monitor support that doesn't just mirror, or depend on the app to do the work.
> 
> I guess a less awkward file system would-
> 
> Cripes!  Now I'm falling down that hole..




You didn’t use the phrases “real pro users” or “toy OS” once. Not even close to the rabbit hole


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## JayMysteri0

Stephen.R said:


> You didn’t use the phrases “real pro users” or “toy OS” once. Not even close to the rabbit hole


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## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> You didn’t use the phrases “real pro users” or “toy OS” once. Not even close to the rabbit hole




Or the phrase I saw quite a bit during my day "...that's obviously not what people want." I remember it being used as a way to dismiss everything Apple wasn't currently doing at that very moment, from iPhones with bigger screens, to stylus digitizers for the iPad.


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## SuperMatt

Stephen.R said:


> You didn’t use the phrases “real pro users” or “toy OS” once. Not even close to the rabbit hole





Renzatic said:


> Or the phrase I saw quite a bit during my day "...that's obviously not what people want." I remember it being used as a way to dismiss everything Apple wasn't currently doing at that very moment, from iPhones with bigger screens, to stylus digitizers for the iPad.



Both responses are so telling. None of the trolls on MR are “real pro users” nor do they have even the slightest insight into “what people want” at all. Case in point, some poster has about 100 posts complaining that Apple doesn’t put backup batteries into its desktop computers just in case somebody trips over the wire while it’s on. Seriously dude… it‘s NEVER going to happen, no matter how many posts you make about it. He’s pretty insistent that this is something the world wants….


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## Renzatic

SuperMatt said:


> Both responses are so telling. None of the trolls on MR are “real pro users” nor do they have even the slightest insight into “what people want” at all. Case in point, some poster has about 100 posts complaining that Apple doesn’t put backup batteries into its desktop computers just in case somebody trips over the wire while it’s on. Seriously dude… it‘s NEVER going to happen, no matter how many posts you make about it. He’s pretty insistent that this is something the world wants….




If he's that worried about it, why not just buy a UPS?


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## JayMysteri0

This thread I think defines what some of the supposed 'pro' users are really.



> Does anyone use their iPad to make money? Or to do work?
> 
> 
> Does anyone here use their iPad to make money? Maybe you work from your iPad, or you run your business from your iPad, or you sell your music or art that you've made with your iPad?  I've got a 2021 iPad Pro 12.9 1TB cellular on order (coming next week!). I'm excited because it's got the M1...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.macrumors.com




Some in that thread can't imagine a device can be used differently than they use it, so it must NOT be a Pro level device.


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## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> Both responses are so telling. None of the trolls on MR are “real pro users” nor do they have even the slightest insight into “what people want” at all. Case in point, some poster has about 100 posts complaining that Apple doesn’t put backup batteries into its desktop computers just in case somebody trips over the wire while it’s on. Seriously dude… it‘s NEVER going to happen, no matter how many posts you make about it. He’s pretty insistent that this is something the world wants….



I still bang my head when I have to hear about the iPad being a laptop replacement.

Why would Apple make BOTH Macbook & iPad Pro then?

You buy the device YOU need, and stop bitching about the device you did NOT need doesn't do what you actually wanted.


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## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> If he's that worried about it, why not just buy a UPS?



…or a laptop. Same frigging components inside except you need an external screen if you want a large one. But if the “trip on the wire” risk is such a big deal, it should be worth it.


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## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> Some can't imagine a device can be used differently than they use it, so it must NOT be a Pro level device.




You can tap out a novel in Pages using an iPad Mini, and make money off of it. Does that make the Mini a pro level device?

...actually, yeah.

The question isn't "is this device pro or not," rather, it's "is this device good for what I want to use it for." If it is. Great. Go buy one. If it's not, then look elsewhere.


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## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> You can tap out a novel in Pages using an iPad Mini, and make money off of it. Does that make the Mini a pro level device?
> 
> ...actually, yeah.
> 
> The question isn't "is this device pro or not," rather, it's "is this device good for what I want to use it for." If it is. Great. Go buy one. If it's not, then look elsewhere.



I'd go a step further.

There's these articles about these kids in Africa making science fiction films & cartoons using PCs that even the most antagonistic Apple haters wouldn't touch that cost just a few hundred dollars.

The question isn't if the device is pro enough.  The question is IF the user is pro enough.



> *a bad workman always blames his tools*
> 
> (Britain) It is not the *tools* we use that make us good, but rather how we employ them.
> (Britain) Upon failure, it's easier to *blame* the *tools* used rather than how they were employed.



https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a_bad_workman_always_blames_his_tools


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## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> I still bang my head when I have to hear about the iPad being a laptop replacement.




To be fair, that line is a lot hazier these days. With the introduction of the M1, the iPad is now, for all intents and purposes, a MacPad. It'll probably get to the point where the only reason why you'd buy one over the other depends upon whether your use case is a better fit for a traditional laptop, or being able to touch and write on the screen.

But given that the iPad has a decent keyboard and trackpad accessory, while the chances of getting a touch screen Mac are about nil, the iPad is actually the more flexible choice.


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## JayMysteri0

Renzatic said:


> To be fair, that line is a lot hazier these days. With the introduction of the M1, the iPad is now, for all intents and purposes, a MacPad. It'll probably get to the point where the only reason why you'd buy one over the other depends upon whether your use case is a better fit for a traditional laptop, or being able to touch and write on the screen.



That's why I keep harping to no success, that it's NOT a replacement, but an alternative.


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## Renzatic

JayMysteri0 said:


> That's why I keep harping to no success, that it's NOT a replacement, but an alternative.




The way things are going, it wouldn't surprise me if we eventually see Apple combine both platforms together, the aforementioned MacPad. By this point, the only reason why you can't use an iPad exactly how you'd use a Macbook is due to OS/software constraints, both of which are slowly disappearing as time goes on.

This isn't something I'd dare say on MR, at risk of being banned for trolling, but if I were to take bets, I'd say the future of both the iPad and Macbook will be something that looks a lot like a Surface Pro X.


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## SuperMatt

Renzatic said:


> If he's that worried about it, why not just buy a UPS?



Oh he explains that with a lengthy rant about the iMac power adapter and how stupid it is... see a UPS cannot protect you if that cable gets yanked out of the back of iMac when it’s on. Seriously, this guy must be using his computer in the middle of a 3-ring circus with the cable near the dancing bear or something.


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## Renzatic

SuperMatt said:


> Oh he explains that with a lengthy rant about the iMac power adapter and how stupid it is... see a UPS cannot protect you if that cable gets yanked out of the back of iMac when it’s on. Seriously, this guy must be using his computer in the middle of a 3-ring circus with the cable near the dancing bear or something.




I bet he just wants to take his iMac to Starbucks.


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## Deleted member 199

JayMysteri0 said:


> That's why I keep harping to no success, that it's NOT a replacement, but an alternative.



Given the essentially identical cpus now it’s really just form factor + ports (and software to some extent I guess) from iPad to (entry level so far) laptops to iMac.

same basic ability, expressed different ways. Choose form factor that works for you.


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## DT

Renzatic said:


> If there's one thing I learned during my stint on MR (and a goodly chunk of the rest of the internet), it's that some people think that being constantly critical and derisive is a good substitute for having a personality.




It's so easy to be critical, it's hard to defend things in a positive capacity.  People that are negative about everything make me laugh, I have no idea how they deal with life.




JayMysteri0 said:


> That's why I keep harping to no success, that it's NOT a replacement, but an alternative.




I always say an iPad (or a Laptop) can provide a solution to X use cases (where they overlap), is advantageous in Y use cases (where a laptop or ipad is a better choice), and a poor choice for Z (where it's not a great selection, and the "other" product is clearly a better choice).

I think of tasks, end results, not devices, the latter is informed by the former.


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## Pumbaa

Stephen.R said:


> Given the essentially identical cpus now it’s really just form factor + ports (and software to some extent I guess) from iPad to (entry level so far) laptops to iMac.
> 
> same basic ability, expressed different ways. Choose form factor that works for you.



They just need to figure out how to merge the traditional interfaces and the touch interfaces in a good way. And how to get developers to make stuff that work well with it.

So, not anytime soon.


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> They just need to figure out how to merge the traditional interfaces and the touch interfaces in a good way. And how to get developers to make stuff that work well with it.
> 
> So, not anytime soon.




The difference is really an issue of information density. When you're using a mouse or trackpad, having a bunch of little buttons, tabs, and scrollbars to click on isn't a problem. When you're stabbing at a screen with your finger? Yeah, you want some big targets, and a lot of space to work with.

Compare Affinity Photo on the desktop to it's iPad equivalent for a good example of this.

...so yeah, it's not going to be a problem solved anytime soon. Giving a choice to flip between either interface depending upon your current need is a good, though kinda janky, middle ground solution.

edit: Or you could design the app to its best fit. Like if you're using Photoshop on an iPad, using an exclusively touch friendly interface makes sense, since you're engaging in a workflow better suited to that form factor. If you're using Excel on your iPad? Yeah, you can make it able to take touch input, but design the interface as if the mouse and trackpad is a given.


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## DT

Renzatic said:


> When you're stabbing at a screen with your finger? Yeah, you want some big targets, and a lot of space to work with.





Oh ... you're supposed to use your __finger__, otherwise, I definitely need bigger touch targets ...


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## Deleted member 199

Renzatic said:


> I bet he just wants to take his iMac to Starbucks.



He’s delusional. Claims he wants a Mac mini with a battery because a laptop is too hot on his lap.


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> They just need to figure out how to merge the traditional interfaces and the touch interfaces in a good way. And how to get developers to make stuff that work well with it.
> 
> So, not anytime soon.



Some of the window elements in big sur seem a little more spaced out - so maybe it’s a direction they’re heading but it doesn’t seem likely any time soon.



DT said:


> Oh ... you're supposed to use your __finger__, otherwise, I definitely need bigger touch targets ...



It’s called a fat finger error not a fat ass error.


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> They just need to figure out how to merge the traditional interfaces and the touch interfaces in a good way. And how to get developers to make stuff that work well with it.
> 
> So, not anytime soon.



Of course the real innovation will come when they release touch support for hooves and paws.

#Hogs4Life


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## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> He’s delusional. Claims he wants a Mac mini with a battery because a laptop is too hot on his lap.




It's not like the Mac Mini will be any cooler on his lap, plus having to lug around and balance a big monitor won't be very comfortable.

dum.


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## Renzatic

DT said:


> Oh ... you're supposed to use your __finger__, otherwise, I definitely need bigger touch targets ...




I don't need no damn Apple Pencil! I'll use the stylus god gave me!


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## Pumbaa

Renzatic said:


> I don't need no damn Apple Pencil! I'll use the stylus god gave me!



The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.


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## Renzatic

Pumbaa said:


> The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.




This forum needs a horrified emotion!


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.


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## Deleted member 199

Renzatic said:


> It's not like the Mac Mini will be any cooler on his lap, plus having to lug around and balance a big monitor won't be very comfortable.
> 
> dum.



That’s the stupid part. He wanted the mini away from him and then... a laptop without the cpu (so... a keyboard and monitor) near him.
I’m half convinced it’s someone trying to troll sane people into calling him a fucking idiot and getting penalised for it


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## Pumbaa

Stephen.R said:


> View attachment 5633



Nailed it?


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> Nailed it?



Did you just refer to Jesus as “it”?


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## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> That’s the stupid part. He wanted the mini away from him and then... a laptop without the cpu (so... a keyboard and monitor) near him.
> I’m half convinced it’s someone trying to troll sane people into calling him a fucking idiot and getting penalised for it




It's hard to tell sometimes, isn't it? As likely as it is that he's trolling, he could be just that weird.


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## Deleted member 199

Renzatic said:


> It's hard to tell sometimes, isn't it? As likely as it is that he's trolling, he could be just that weird.



Hanlon’s razor is definitely a factor but it’s always a question on _that_ site.


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## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> Hanlon’s razor is definitely a factor but it’s always a question on _that_ site.




You can usually tell by how often they do something, and how varied they are with it. If the guy's just griping about in that one thread, he's probably trolling. If he gripes about his particular bugbear regularly, across multiple threads, he's likely being sincere, and his weirdness comes honestly.


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## Alli

SuperMatt said:


> I am excited to see innovations for iPad OS. I use an iPad daily.



Same. And after my 3 weeks without my iPad I know just how much I use it, and how valuable it is to me.

But I’m still gonna get a 16” MBP. Just sayin.


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## Runs For Fun

Renzatic said:


> This forum needs a horrified emotion!


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## Pumbaa

Soon!

Looking forward to all the sensible posts when no new hardware is announced!


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> Soon!
> 
> Looking forward to all the sensible posts when no new hardware is announced!


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## Pumbaa

Stephen.R said:


> View attachment 5876



I meant here, not over there!


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## Alli

I gotta admit, I will be disappointed if the rumors for a new Mac don’t pan out. But it won’t be worth starting a thread to bitch about it.


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## tranceking26

Not long left, although I won't watch it live, even though I have very good internet here live streams are sometimes dodgy. Just have to avoid MR and tech sites for a few hours!


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## Pumbaa

tranceking26 said:


> Not long left, although I won't watch it live, even though I have very good internet here live streams are sometimes dodgy. Just have to avoid MR and tech sites for a few hours!



You probably should avoid this thread as well.


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## Deleted member 199

Alli said:


> I gotta admit, I will be disappointed if the rumors for a new Mac don’t pan out. But it won’t be worth starting a thread to bitch about it.


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## tranceking26

Pumbaa said:


> You probably should avoid this thread as well.



Yeah I will lol. It's only going to be a few hours, max.


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> I meant here, not over there!



Pretty much any product configuration of any kind could be announced, and there will be easily 50 posts essentially saying:


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## Renzatic

I just wish they'd hurry the hell up! I WANNA WATCH IT NOW!


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## Pumbaa

Stephen.R said:


> Pretty much any product configuration of any kind could be announced, and there will be easily 50 posts essentially saying:
> 
> View attachment 5882



Surely you mean “easily 50 _threads_”?


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> Surely you mean “easily 50 _threads_”?



Oh sorry I missed off the time unit. I meant 50 posts/second. I didn't want to get into the details of how they're distributed.


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## Pumbaa

Right now I’m mostly interested in if they’ll release a new version of Big Sur before I manage to install 11.4. 

Speed tests go wooosch.

App store downloads and updates go wooosch.

Random web downloads go wooosch.

11.4 gets more or less stuck after a gigabyte or so. Same shit for many days. Even tried another wi-fi. Same story. Guess I should check the console or logs.


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> Right now I’m mostly interested in if they’ll release a new version of Big Sur before I manage to install 11.4.
> 
> Speed tests go wooosch.
> 
> App store downloads and updates go wooosch.
> 
> Random web downloads go wooosch.
> 
> 11.4 gets more or less stuck after a gigabyte or so. Same shit for many days. Even tried another wi-fi. Same story. Guess I should check the console or logs.



Maybe some annoying groundhog has dug up the underground cables.


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## Pumbaa

Stephen.R said:


> Maybe some annoying groundhog has dug up the underground cables.



Well, so far my attempts installing 11.4 certainly have been like something from Groundhog Day…


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## JayMysteri0

On other hand have this ready for when iPadOS can't be used to land planes instead of current FAA software.  So it's STILL not a pro device.






People have built up what THEY need iPadOS to be, that there will be tears.

Soooooo many tears


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## Deleted member 199

JayMysteri0 said:


> On other hand have this ready for when iPadOS can't be used to land planes instead of current FAA software.  So it's STILL not a pro device.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have built up what THEY need iPadOS to be, that there will be tears.
> 
> Soooooo many tears


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## Pumbaa

Memojis everywhere! Can’t be good!


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## Runs For Fun

JayMysteri0 said:


> On other hand have this ready for when iPadOS can't be used to land planes instead of current FAA software.  So it's STILL not a pro device.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People have built up what THEY need iPadOS to be, that there will be tears.
> 
> Soooooo many tears



I think we'll still see some big improvements to iPadOS but I agree that people are setting their expectations way too high.


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## Deleted member 199

Runs For Fun said:


> I think we'll still see some big improvements to iPadOS but I agree that people are setting their expectations way too high.



There's an entire thread of people who will be disappointed if Tim doesn't publicly rebuke those pesky employees who dared to ask for more flexible working arrangements.


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## DT

Holy hell, “live text” through the camera is slick.


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## Pumbaa

DT said:


> Holy hell, “live text” through the camera is slick.



For sure! But I’m trying not to get excited until I know which features will be available on my existing phone...


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## Deleted member 199

Pumbaa said:


> For sure! But I’m trying not to get excited until I know which features will be available on my existing phone...



That's me, but with anything location specific, maps, weather etc.


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## DT

Oh those are nice new multitasking implementations.


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## DT

Oh this is slick, I love the idea of app/site contextual notes.


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## Deleted member 199

C'mon Thai language translations... BAH. Damn you silver fox!


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## Deleted member 199

Holy shit did he say app dev on iPad. People are going to lose their shit over this.


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## DT

Wow!


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## Deleted member 199

"The Mac is doomed now" comments incoming.


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## Pumbaa

DT said:


> Oh those are nice new multitasking implementations.



I got distracted. Did they say anything about simply closing extra Safari windows I open by accident now and then? Or am I stuck with merging windows?


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## DT

Pumbaa said:


> I got distracted. Did they say anything about simply closing extra Safari windows I open by accident now and then? Or am I stuck with merging windows?




Yes!

There’s a new “windows view” for apps that support multiple windows, and you can even park multiple split views, and create views from the running apps view (the swipe up).


----------



## Renzatic

I'm still waiting on the new Macs.


----------



## DT

HOLY SHIT, universal control, I’ve always wanted this


----------



## Renzatic

NICE!


----------



## Deleted member 199

Still no 17” G5 PowerBook. Sigh.


----------



## JayMysteri0

iPadOS...



Is it pro yet?  

Not for people who want MacOS on an iPad.

But testing the how Universal control can be applied will be fun.


----------



## Pumbaa

Monterey… Gonna take a while for me to not associate that name with a certain fox, but I’m looking forward to the release this fall!


----------



## Renzatic

Stephen.R said:


> Still no 17” G5 PowerBook. Sigh.




I'm just so damn mad...


----------



## JayMysteri0

Me:





Reading this thread with it's angry tears


> Yikes (WWDC 2021)
> 
> 
> Well that was…disappointing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.macrumors.com






> YES! when paying up to $2400 for a device marketed as a computer replacement, I would like it to have similar capabilities to a $999 MacBook Air!


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> iPadOS...
> 
> 
> 
> Is it pro yet?
> 
> Not for people who want MacOS on an iPad.
> 
> But testing the how Universal control can be applied will be fun.




The one thing I was really hoping for was an external display at native resolution.  maybe current iPads simply do not have the GPU wired up to be able to provide the higher resolution output, i.e., it's hardware, not software. 

The both ways / all ways with AirPlay / UC, i.e., any peripheral, display on any device is pretty fantastic.  This also kills a few 3rd party apps that provided things like AirPlay __to__ a Mac (AirParrot comes to mind).


----------



## Clix Pix

Lots of new features and functions that are sure to please many people....  Then there are those of us who probably won't use any of them or many at all!     Looking forward to Monterey and also still looking forward to the eventual announcement of the new M series 14" and 16" MBPs.....


----------



## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> Reading this thread with it's angry tears




Holy hell, what a bunch of babies, hahahaha ...


----------



## JayMysteri0

DT said:


> The one thing I was really hoping for was an external display at native resolution.  maybe current iPads simply do not have the GPU wired up to be able to provide the higher resolution output, i.e., it's hardware, not software.
> 
> The both ways / all ways with AirPlay / UC, i.e., any peripheral, display on any device is pretty fantastic.  This also kills a few 3rd party apps that provided things like AirPlay __to__ a Mac (AirParrot comes to mind).



That's why I am wondering if someone clever will figure out a work around of sorts to simulate that.   That's kind of what the harder core iPad people have done, found work arounds that allow them to do what they want.

We have Sidecar, I don't believe I heard it was going away.  So I wonder what this does along with that?

I'm wondering if someone is going to find a way to simulate full screen using universal and / or side car.

This insistence that in other areas the iPad has to act like a Macbook to be professional, is still missing the point of Apple wants you to buy both, if not three Apple computer products.  They are not going to sell you a replacement.  Universal literally demonstrates that thinking.


----------



## DT

I really dug on the, let's call it, "future promise" of things like IDs on an iPhone, hotel keys, very cool.  Future as in, even when the OS is live, it'll take companies / orgs / states a while to adopt it.

The other day I left my wallet at home when I ran up to the grocery (it wasn't unpacked from our trip), but had my iPhone and Watch, was able to pay no problem, really the only issue would've been getting stopped, I'm looking forward to the day when a phone can sub in for that little card and wallet.


----------



## Clix Pix

I did like that idea of having my driver's license right on my iPhone and iPad -- and of course if the iPhone or iPad gets lost, stolen or simply broken, as the original driver's license is still safe at home.  The only thing is that again a thief, if he or she were savvy enough to actually get into the iPhone's content and find the information that could be misused......  just as it would if a thief steals someone's wallet with their driver's license, other ID and their debit/credit cards.   However, it is becoming less and less likely that a thief could get past someone's Face ID and passcode in order to view the contents of their phone, so the iPhone is still a safer way to carry one's ID around than a wallet.


----------



## Joe

I'm glad I don't care to have the latest and greatest ipad all of the time. My 2020 will serve me for several more years. I'll hold it until it dies.


----------



## User.45

wow, apple really upped the ante with facetime.


----------



## Pumbaa

P_X said:


> wow, apple really upped the ante with facetime.



Looked awesome!

Too bad pretty much everyone I’m in regular contact with uses virtually anything except for FaceTime and iMessage.


----------



## Alli

P_X said:


> wow, apple really upped the ante with facetime.



This was the biggie for me since my brother and sister-in-law (and husband) refuse to get off that Android train, even though everyone else in the family is on iOS. It will be nice to include them in chats now by just sending them a link and forcing everyone to use some other app.

Live text looks fantastic too.


----------



## DT

P_X said:


> wow, apple really upped the ante with facetime.




Yeah, they really pushed into the Zoom-like feature set with scheduling, web based client, all sorts of app/screen share.

I really liked the "Shared by" idea, where the shared content gets sort of pushed into the proper app space, so you can look at it, saved, etc., later.


----------



## User.45

Alli said:


> This was the biggie for me since my brother and sister-in-law (and husband) refuse to get off that Android train, even though everyone else in the family is on iOS. It will be nice to include them in chats now by just sending them a link and forcing everyone to use some other app.
> 
> Live text looks fantastic too.



Honestly if I weren't a troglodyte, I'd still use android. But I'm a Mac guy and the level of integration with MacOS means I don't have to deal with touch screens 95% of the time. I like facetime a lot...It's actually HIPAA compliant (tech-wise, you'd still need a HIPAA contract to use it).


----------



## tranceking26

Just watched WWDC and to be honest not enough things appealed to me, so I won't be updating iOS, watchOS or macOS.

But the good news is I won't argue or complain about it, I'm just going to watch and see if they all improve over time.

The best update of the lot was the iPad one, but I don't have an iPad.


----------



## User.45

Universal control, Airplay to Mac is pretty sexy.


----------



## Pumbaa

P_X said:


> Airplay to Mac is pretty sexy.



Especially if you have one of those feminine iMacs!


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

My only wish nobody is talking about.  Allow some video storage on an Apple TV.  They certainly have the drive space now.  You don't realize how much Apple product's communication relies on WiFi until you don't have access to it.  Video AirPlay requiring WiFi should be ridiculed mercilessly.


----------



## User.45

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> My only wish nobody is talking about.  Allow some video storage on an Apple TV.  They certainly have the drive space now.  You don't realize how much Apple product's communication relies on WiFi until you don't have access to it.  Video AirPlay requiring WiFi should be ridiculed mercilessly.



It can use BT for that too


----------



## Eric

Alli said:


> This was the biggie for me since my brother and sister-in-law (and husband) refuse to get off that Android train, even though everyone else in the family is on iOS. It will be nice to include them in chats now by just sending them a link and forcing everyone to use some other app.
> 
> Live text looks fantastic too.



Didn't get a chance to watch, what's this new FT feature?


----------



## DT

Eric said:


> Didn't get a chance to watch, what's this new FT feature?





There's several, some are integrated with the new SharePlay, which lets you do FT on top of a video stream, and it has an open API, so 3rd party streaming services can use it.  There's a new scheduling/invite system, kind of like Zoom, but you can invite people __without__ iOS devices, and they get a link that can be used through a browser.


----------



## User.191

Eric said:


> Didn't get a chance to watch, what's this new FT feature?



Shareables: share music, videos, pictures etc. The idea is that you connect the services with the people. Want a movie night? Share the movie and watch together over an iDevice (or even, apparently, the web).

What I didn’t grok was if everyone needed the corresponding service to receive said item…


----------



## User.191

DT said:


> There's several, some are integrated with the new SharePlay, which lets you do FT on top of a video stream, and it has an open API, so 3rd party streaming services can use it.  There's a new scheduling/invite system, kind of like Zoom, but you can invite people __without__ iOS devices, and they get a link that can be used through a browser.



I can see the first thing on your list will be to share your shiny metal ass over FaceTime…


----------



## DT

MissNomer said:


> What I didn’t grok was if everyone needed the corresponding service to receive said item…




This was from an article on Tech Crunch:



> The company announced a set of launch partners for SharePlay, including Disney+, Hulu, HBO Max, NBA, Twitch, TikTok, MasterClass, ESPN+, Paramount+ and Pluto TV. It’s also making an API available to developers so they can integrate their own apps with SharePlay. This can include other interactive apps, like collaborative whiteboards, for instance — not just audio or video.
> 
> What’s interesting about this API integration is that the content access will be up to the apps. While an app like Disney+ would require both users to be subscribers, other developers may choose to allow access for the other person if they prefer.


----------



## Eric

MissNomer said:


> Shareables: share music, videos, pictures etc. The idea is that you connect the services with the people. Want a movie night? Share the movie and watch together over an iDevice (or even, apparently, the web).
> 
> What I didn’t grok was if everyone needed the corresponding service to receive said item…



Nice! I have that watch together feature on my Plex server as well, haven't really had a use for it but it's still cool.


----------



## User.191

Is there a collection of more self entitled asshats other than those over at MR whining, moaning and complaining about WWDC?

Jesus H - these are the same morons who bitch, moan and complain when Apple do too much.

When did we become so self-centered? iPadOS 15 addresses several areas for me:

1) Multiwindow support - I can’t get my head around the current implementation and the new method seems to make considerably more sense.
2) Full page widgets - Hallelujah! I want - I want!
3) Continuity - I brought my new iPad to be part of my daily workflow and this is going to be a big part of that.
4) Swift playgrounds - I want to learn swift but my day job in my office keeps me on .net, Python and Java. The idea I can do some real things on my iPad with this in my “off hours” is of real interest.

In addition this feels like a stepping stone where Apple are preparing even bigger things with iPadOS 16 and beyond.

Was this release and amazing one with heaps of “wow” factor? Nope, but that’s fine by me as well because all that glimmers is not gold.


----------



## tranceking26

MissNomer said:


> Was this release and amazing one with heaps of “wow” factor? Nope, but that’s fine by me as well because all that glimmers is not gold.



Well said, if I were an iPad owner I'd be very pleased with iPadOS 15.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Stephen.R said:


> There's an entire thread of people who will be disappointed if Tim doesn't publicly rebuke those pesky employees who dared to ask for more flexible working arrangements.



That whole thread of comments pissed me off.


----------



## User.191

Meanwhile…


Post in thread 'Why no widgets for iPad, seriously.'
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-no-widgets-for-ipad-seriously.2245586/post-29985073

What a fucking _wanker_…


----------



## Runs For Fun

MissNomer said:


> Is there a collection of more self entitled asshats other than those over at MR whining, moaning and complaining about WWDC?
> 
> Jesus H - these are the same morons who bitch, moan and complain when Apple do too much.
> 
> When did we become so self-centered? iPadOS 15 addresses several areas for me:
> 
> 1) Multiwindow support - I can’t get my head around the current implementation and the new method seems to make considerably more sense.
> 2) Full page widgets - Hallelujah! I want - I want!
> 3) Continuity - I brought my new iPad to be part of my daily workflow and this is going to be a big part of that.
> 4) Swift playgrounds - I want to learn swift but my day job in my office keeps me on .net, Python and Java. The idea I can do some real things on my iPad with this in my “off hours” is of real interest.
> 
> In addition this feels like a stepping stone where Apple are preparing even bigger things with iPadOS 16 and beyond.
> 
> Was this release and amazing one with heaps of “wow” factor? Nope, but that’s fine by me as well because all that glimmers is not gold.



There’s this thread about a “lackluster iPadOS 15”








						Who is cancelling their M1 iPad Pro order?
					

Many of us are still waiting to get our M1 iPad Pros later this month or next month. Who is planning to cancel their order now that we've seen iPadOS 15? I am debating. I ordered the iPad Pro 12.9 M1 but I still have my 2018 which works great. The extra ram was something I was really looking...




					forums.macrumors.com
				




Also I completely agree with these points. The multitasking improvements alone are huge! The current multitasking is very unintuitive and hard to use IMO.


----------



## JayMysteri0

If bitches really got stitches, the iPad forum would be the longest human centipede ever attempted.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Seems like everyone is super disappointed in all the Apple subreddits. More so than on MR even. People have way too high expectations.

Shortest recap for iPadOS I could find from
      ipad


----------



## lizkat

Runs For Fun said:


> Seems like everyone is super disappointed in all the Apple subreddits. More so than on MR even. People have way too high expectations.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ipad/comments/nult94




It's just not cool to be upbeat and like stuff I guess.    Been that way for awhile now.    We're jaded at age 9 by the latest.   

I treasure memory of all the excitement of launch day for the original iPhone.   Grown men and women were as excited as kids standing in line up in Albany...  I only did that one time,  but I still really like keynotes and WWDC presentations, it's just fun.   And sometimes the tech advances are reaslly impressive, even if they have some rough edges that need filing down for the next cycle.

Why do people think it's so cool to just hate on releases of new gear and software anyway?    So many trolls out there now they just become background noise, so if they are seeking attention they're doin' it wrong...


----------



## User.45

Did Lossless arrive to Apple Music? I don't see it in the settings. Also, to me spatial audio sounds like a total gimmick.


----------



## Deleted member 199

You people with your positivity and your lack of tears and drama…


----------



## tranceking26

I'm surprised Apple still supports the Series 3 watch. I wonder if they found a way to free up space before installs too?


----------



## tranceking26

Runs For Fun said:


> Seems like everyone is super disappointed in all the Apple subreddits. More so than on MR even. People have way too high expectations.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ipad/comments/nult94



One man's trash is another man's treasure


----------



## Pumbaa

tranceking26 said:


> I'm surprised Apple still supports the Series 3 watch. I wonder if they found a way to free up space before installs too?



I keep hearing this. Never had a problem. I must be using my Series 3 wrong.


----------



## tranceking26

Pumbaa said:


> I keep hearing this. Never had a problem. I must be using my Series 3 wrong.



I think the issue was with non-cellular versions, 8GB vs 16GB.


----------



## Pumbaa

tranceking26 said:


> I think the issue was with non-cellular versions, 8GB vs 16GB.



Ah, so I bought it wrong. Or right.


----------



## DT

MissNomer said:


> 4) Swift playgrounds - I want to learn swift but my day job in my office keeps me on .net, Python and Java. The idea I can do some real things on my iPad with this in my “off hours” is of real interest.




Swift is a solid language, I was originally hassling with Obj-C, then migrated over to Swift around the mid-4.x version, knowing some Obj-C helped with legacy APIs/docs/existing code.  Playgrounds is super fun, and now, geez, now you can go code to App Store from an iPad, that's a whole new ballgame.

To be honest, my iOS development is pretty lightweight, mostly standard UIs consuming an API (that's also used by a web based front end).  Quite a bit of logic is handled at the server layer, the app winds up being just a simple UI layer, I could __almost__ just use a PWA, I mean, at this point, I've actually started using React Native - I can knock out UIs superfast, I've got a bunch of code resources I've put together that mirror the UI components of the web app (I built out matching styles, layouts) and my stuff is all enterprise deployed, so it doesn't even need to go through the app store process.

I had a question for you:  are you using MacOS VS for your .NET?  Or still needing to fire up Winders™ in some way?  I recall you said you're running MS-SQL from a local container.


----------



## User.45

Goodness, Spatial audio is such a pile of horseshit They tell me I should use my wired headphones and hear the difference.
(They are playing psychoacoustics which is one of the weirdest thing about how our brain processes audio signal. I can't count the number of times I was EQing something started pushing the slider to cut some some frequencies and immediately heard the subtle changes, just to realize a minute in that the EQ has been on bypass and I did nothing to the signal. Here they tell you what you need to hear and you'll start hearing it, unless a) your ear is really trained, or b) your ear is absolutely untrained).

Here's what I hear: a mediocre spatial processor that pushes panoramad instruments farther to the side, compresses the bass and applies a an exciter (processor that restores the sibilance and dynamics of highs above ~2 KHz).
This may be more interesting on a 5.1 or 7.1 system where you can move sound vertically between speakers, but honestly, I've yet to see an adequately put together 5.1 home audio system because setting it up is a major PITA.
I was convinced by a sound engineer 15 years ago that a good stereo system in an acoustically treated room will have superior spatial imaging and to date this paradigm remained unchallenged.

It does tell me if something is lossless now:


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

P_X said:


> It can use BT for that too




Not in my experience.  It doesn’t “just work”.  Unless I’m thinking of something different.  Every time I’ve tried AirPlaying from my iPhone to an Apple TV that isn’t connected to WiFi it doesn’t work.


----------



## User.45

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> Not in my experience.  It doesn’t “just work”.  Unless I’m thinking of something different.  Every time I’ve tried AirPlaying from my iPhone to an Apple TV that isn’t connected to WiFi it doesn’t work.



It does work, but I haven't done it in a while. I bought an apple TV for my residents and the hospital didn't allow us access to the wired or wireless network, so we used it only for Airplay via bluetooth (Airplay 1). It worked fine.


----------



## DT

An AppleTV uses BT to negotiate an AirPlay connection then WiFI in AdHoc mode for data from the streaming device.  So you don't have to be connected to the same network, but it does use WiFi.

There was actually a revision mid-model to the 3rd Gen that allowed this, and of course all models forward.

I've done presentations where I bring my own ATV and use it as an AirPlay target - with neither on the local network - so I can be a little more tactical with my notebook position.


----------



## JayMysteri0

So, a few videos are popping up on Youtube now about WWDC.  Some complaining, some not.  All revolved around the M1 Chip and it's supposed promise.

For me personally, I said it before.  I get a new iPad every 2 years.  I didn't get one last year, because I love my 2018, and they still haven't topped it.  So all the talk about M1 chips doing this & that mean nothing to me, I only wanted the extra ram and better screen on the latest version.  So for WWDC's real appeal to me is what is possible with Universal.

Which this Youtube video covers at 5:30






The possibilities because of what we DON'T know right now, are exciting.  Can I start something in a program I do prefer on iPad, then move that project over to my M1 Macbook Air and finish it in a Mac OS program?      A program I have on the Mac is paid for, but on iPad it's a subscription version.  So could I do something in Procreate, get it started, then move it to Mac OS Clip Studio Paint, and get even more resources to work with?  The things this may make easier with a little creativity is interesting.

The reviewer also points out MY constant refrain.  They did Universal in the Mac section of WWDC, NOT iPadOS.  Meaning it looks like I've always said, Apple does NOT intend for the iPad to replace but complement.  If you make a studio, having an iMac & iPad Pro maybe the perfect combination, not wishing one did what the other did.


----------



## Deleted member 199

JayMysteri0 said:


> So could I do something in Procreate, get it started, then move it to Mac OS Clip Studio Paint, and get even more resources to work with? The things this may make easier with a little creativity is interesting.



... isn't what you're describing _already_ available via Handoff/Continuity?

Or do you mean to have the editing process being done on the Mac, but your _input_ is still the iPad? They mention about typing from a Mac and the text appears on the iPad in the Monterey 'features' page, but not specifically the other way around


----------



## JayMysteri0

Stephen.R said:


> ... isn't what you're describing _already_ available via Handoff/Continuity?
> 
> Or do you mean to have the editing process being done on the Mac, but your _input_ is still the iPad? They mention about typing from a Mac and the text appears on the iPad in the Monterey 'features' page, but not specifically the other way around



As he points out, it would be more seamless here.  It takes a few more steps now to move files.  I pretty much just use drop box now, but have hit my limit.  Handoff didn't really allow me to just move a project from one active program to another from what I recall.


----------



## Runs For Fun

JayMysteri0 said:


> All revolved around the M1 Chip and it's supposed promise.



The thing is there wasn't even a promise. Apple promises nothing until they announce it. People just came up with this delusion that Apple was going to announce MacOS on the iPad and then got super butthurt when it didn't happen.


----------



## Deleted member 199

Runs For Fun said:


> The thing is there wasn't even a promise. Apple promises nothing until they announce it. People just came up with this delusion that Apple was going to announce MacOS on the iPad and then got super butthurt when it didn't happen.



Wait you mean we're supposed to wait until a company commits to doing something before we ourselves hyped up about it and base our life decisions on an eventuality that may never come to pass?


----------



## Chew Toy McCoy

P_X said:


> It does work, but I haven't done it in a while. I bought an apple TV for my residents and the hospital didn't allow us access to the wired or wireless network, so we used it only for Airplay via bluetooth (Airplay 1). It worked fine.





DT said:


> An AppleTV uses BT to negotiate an AirPlay connection then WiFI in AdHoc mode for data from the streaming device.  So you don't have to be connected to the same network, but it does use WiFi.
> 
> There was actually a revision mid-model to the 3rd Gen that allowed this, and of course all models forward.
> 
> I've done presentations where I bring my own ATV and use it as an AirPlay target - with neither on the local network - so I can be a little more tactical with my notebook position.




Maybe it's the model I have.  I'm not sure which it is.  They haven't exactly been an instabuy upgrade inspiration for years.  What I've been doing instead is running the HDMI dongle out of my iPhone with a cable.

I'm sure the next Apple TV will probably be something like 12k, even though anything beyond 4k is imperceivable to every living creature except the mantis shrimp.


----------



## Renzatic

Runs For Fun said:


> The thing is there wasn't even a promise. Apple promises nothing until they announce it. People just came up with this delusion that Apple was going to announce MacOS on the iPad and then got super butthurt when it didn't happen.




Pretty much. All iPadOS really needed to be considered "pro" is better multitasking, and a proper file system, which, as of now, it pretty much has. Now, the only thing holding the iPad back is Apple's tight sphincter over what can be considered an "ipad app" on the app store.


----------



## Joe

Has Apple created iMessage for Android yet? lol


----------



## thekev

Renzatic said:


> Pretty much. All iPadOS really needed to be considered "pro" is better multitasking, and a proper file system, which, as of now, it pretty much has. Now, the only thing holding the iPad back is Apple's tight sphincter over what can be considered an "ipad app" on the app store.




I don't see them changing that policy unless forced to. Having control over what you can run on their hardware benefits them due to lower perceived security risks and their ability to monetize their position as gatekeeper. With a lot of hardware being in a state of good enough from the standpoint of processing power, app store fees are a good point of growth.


----------



## Joe

I want my iPad to be a Macbook lol


----------



## JayMysteri0

JagRunner said:


> I want my iPad to be a Macbook lol


----------



## SuperMatt

JagRunner said:


> Has Apple created iMessage for Android yet? lol



They have FaceTime links for Android users now…



> Invite anyone to FaceTime​Now you can send friends and family a link to connect on FaceTime — even if they’re using Windows or Android.1 And it’s still end-to-end encrypted, so your call is as private and secure as any other FaceTime call.




Found on this page:








						iPadOS 16
					

iPadOS 16 brings full external display support, Stage Manager, Weather app, redesigned Game Center, and systemwide app enhancements to iPad.



					www.apple.com


----------



## Renzatic

JagRunner said:


> I want my iPad to be a Macbook lol




I want my iPad to be DA BOMB, YO!


----------



## Joe

SuperMatt said:


> They have FaceTime links for Android users now…
> 
> 
> 
> Found on this page:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iPadOS 16
> 
> 
> iPadOS 16 brings full external display support, Stage Manager, Weather app, redesigned Game Center, and systemwide app enhancements to iPad.
> 
> 
> 
> www.apple.com




Yes, I am waiting for iMessage for Android so some of my friends can be included in the iMessage fun.


----------



## DT

JagRunner said:


> Yes, I am waiting for iMessage for Android so some of my friends can be included in the iMessage fun.




It'll send them to a text based UI like IRC.

ENJOY IMESSAGES FUCKERS!


----------



## JayMysteri0

If anyone is curious about what iPadOS looks like in beta


----------



## lizkat

I don't know if I get the Hide My Mail thing...   if you've got a raft of setups that use a particular email address,   It's out there and what good is it to suddenly start using Hide My Mail for new setups with the randomized HIde My Mail accounts that you then forward to your actual address.  Sounds like extra work for..   for what, really?  All your old setups have been out there for maybe decades!   Who believes all these outfits that say they only use  the mail address you provide just to send you renewal notices or requested mail briefing?   I guess I have become a real cynic.


----------



## User.168

.


----------



## Deleted member 199

lizkat said:


> I don't know if I get the Hide My Mail thing...



The concept of an 'alternate' email alias isn't new. Even iCloud supports it - and combined with the + operator you can already get basically the same result from iCloud. What _is new here_ is that Safari/etc will generate automatic random aliases for you, and allow you to label them somewhat clearly.

So it's kind of the same benefit the password suggestion stuff added a few years ago: Nothing *stopped* a person from using a really random password and having Safari save it - but it was extra work.


----------



## Deleted member 199

I said:
			
		

> My advice is to buy as much memory as you can afford, even prioritise it over small CPU bumps






			
				The Apple-Knows-Best crowd said:
			
		

> pfft. Future proofing is stupid. Apple wouldn't sell a Mac with 8GB if that wasn't enough for the future. 'Future proofing' is a waste of money and doesn't work.






			
				Apple 2020 said:
			
		

> here are the new M1 Macs, with either 8 or 16GB memory, maximum.






			
				I said:
			
		

> hold up there. That's not nearly enough at the 'top end'. You better have some higher end options planned.






			
				The Apple-Knows-Best crowd said:
			
		

> That's silly. 8Gb is plenty and 16GB is more than enough for most tasks, the M1 is practically magic in terms of memory usage.






			
				Apple 2021 said:
			
		

> by the way some of these new features require 16GB minimum






			
				I said:
			
		

>


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## lizkat

Stephen.R said:


> The concept of an 'alternate' email alias isn't new. Even iCloud supports it - and combined with the + operator you can already get basically the same result from iCloud. What _is new here_ is that Safari/etc will generate automatic random aliases for you, and allow you to label them somewhat clearly.
> 
> So it's kind of the same benefit the password suggestion stuff added a few years ago: Nothing *stopped* a person from using a really random password and having Safari save it - but it was extra work.




Sure but it only applies to correspondence with a new second party...  so meanwhile your other address, the underlying one, is out there already, that's all I'm saying.    It's sort of the same thing as a bank saying oh you can let us generate a random account number for a credit card transaction so your actual account number isn't bandied about...     true but meanwhile your underlying account number is already out there on all your previous transactions.


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## Deleted member 199

lizkat said:


> Sure but it only applies to correspondence with a new second party... so meanwhile your other address, the underlying one, is out there already, that's all I'm saying



Sure, if you weren't already using one of the existing (mostly manual) methods, it might be a hassle. But doing something now, is still better than never offering a solution. And it's not _impossible_ to change your registered email address with most legitimate businesses/entities.

For example. lizk.at is available. $12 a year gets you a domain, you link it to iCloud, ask close friends/family to use `pawfect@lizk.at`, meanwhile you gradually change other _legitimate_ services to use one of the new 'generated' email addresses.

Eventually the only things going to `lizkat@icloud.com` will be the crap from organisations that bought an email list.



Obviously `lizk.at` is just a silly example. I snagged <my family name>.family a couple of years ago, and will absolutely set it up for this, and depending on how flexible it is, at least give my wife/parents, and possibly brother/father's side of the family I've never met, the option to link it for theirs if they wish.


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