# Home Entertainment



## DT

@Huntn Saw your post on MR, thought I'd start it up here (I'm not really keen on having any kind of conversation with folks over there, especially if/when fuckwit-no-nothings like RP chime in ...


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## Huntn

Here ya go: 
I want to know, do you notice a huge difference in picture quality between BluRay and 4K on your 4k TV? Granted I only have 1 or 2, 4k disks. I have a 65” Visio TV with good specs and honestly so far, it’s been a let down as far as not noticing anything truly significant. I have streamed some 4k nature content (I think) which seems pretty nice. I wonder if this could be the quality of the 4k disk?


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## Pumbaa

I typically check the reviews before bothering with 4K over regular BluRay. Did the same when going from DVD to BluRay. Really enjoy this site separating video and audio ratings from the overall movie rating. Maybe it is elitist bullshit, maybe it is serious craftsmanship, I don’t know. But I like it and only bother with the new format if the quality is supposedly great or if the price is the same as or lower than the “inferior” format’s. 





__





						Ultra HD Reviews | High Def Digest
					

'The latest news on all things 4k Ultra HD, Blu-ray and Gear'



					ultrahd.highdefdigest.com
				




What do they say about your 4K discs?

How far away from your 65“ TV are you?


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## DT

Here's the thing, with most typical sized TVs, and most common viewing distances, you're going to notice the HDR (High Dynamic Range) encoding in a 4K source more than you'll notice the HD (1920x1080) vs. 4K (3840x2160).

I don't know what model Vizio you have, I think you have (IIRC) a P-series? There's an older P, then they did a couple of newer P Quantum, and their top-of-the-line is the P Quantum X, which has mind blowing HDR (that really pops because of the insane brightness levels), and supports, Dolby Vision, HD10 and the newest HD10+ spec (which is meant to compete with DV).

What specific model Vizio do you have?  FWIW, when I was talking about those sets in that thread that MaDummy started, I wound up actually going with one (the newest P Quantum X, P65QX-H1), I have a whole spew about why I went that direction vs. Sony/LG and why I went with LCD over OLED.

Anyway, HDR > Resolution in terms of visual impact


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## Chew Toy McCoy

I read several years back that 4k, in general, is barely perceivable by the human eye.

Given that, anything above that is just an excuse to gouge you for more money.


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## Edd

I have a 55” Sony with early 4K, no HDR. I preferred my Apple TV 4 (1080p) over my 4K Roku hooked to the same tv with same settings. I tried adjusting settings to make the Roku better but couldn’t do it. I want to replace the TV with an HDR set but the picture is pretty damn good, hard to justify.


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## DT

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I read several years back that 4k, in general, is barely perceivable by the human eye.
> 
> Given that, anything above that is just an excuse to gouge you for more money.




Yep, see my post above (TL;DR = HDR has more impact than the resolution).  Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of 8K talk, but unless something is done to radically change the color space/depth, etc., it won't look better for 99.9% of the use cases (assuming you actually had 8K native content).

I considered a TCL set, one of their new MiniLED products, but too many CS issues, the so called "panel lottery" (apparently they allow a huge number of poorly tuned/funky panels to make it through QA ... meaning multiple returns for some people) - but anyway, that's an interesting tech that improves the existing 4K/HDR vs. trying to introduce new resolutions/formats.

I think Mini, and certainly Micro LED will replace OLED, as they have all of the advantage of OLED without any of the downsides.


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## Chew Toy McCoy

DT said:


> Yep, see my post above (TL;DR = HDR has more impact than the resolution).  Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of 8K talk, but unless something is done to radically change the color space/depth, etc., it won't look better for 99.9% of the use cases (assuming you actually had 8K native content).
> 
> I considered a TCL set, one of their new MiniLED products, but too many CS issues, the so called "panel lottery" (apparently they allow a huge number of poorly tuned/funky panels to make it through QA ... meaning multiple returns for some people) - but anyway, that's an interesting tech that improves the existing 4K/HDR vs. trying to introduce new resolutions/formats.
> 
> I think Mini, and certainly Micro LED will replace OLED, as they have all of the advantage of OLED without any of the downsides.




I'm sure there will be a lot of trying to credit 4k+ TVs for that being the reason it looks better, but as you said there are other variables that are the real reason it probably looks better.  IMO if you buy a new TV that's 5 years newer than your current TV than it's just going to look better period, even if you aren't big on specs knowledge.

I have kind of a unique upgrade problem.  I have a 3D TV and 3D Blu-ray player.  I don't watch a ton of 3D content but still think it's cool when I do.  For whatever reason that was deemed a fad that only lasted a couple years.  So now good luck finding a new or bigger TV with 3D capabilities.  At best they'll throw it in a TV that is already indefensibly expensive.  They're still releasing new movie 3D blu-rays.  So I'm not really sure why it's at the same time a technology that seems to be blown off by TV manufactures.  Honestly I feel it should be just as standard issue as 4k at this point.


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## User.45

DT said:


> Yep, see my post above (TL;DR = HDR has more impact than the resolution).  Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of 8K talk, but unless something is done to radically change the color space/depth, etc., it won't look better for 99.9% of the use cases (assuming you actually had 8K native content).
> 
> I considered a TCL set, one of their new MiniLED products, but too many CS issues, the so called "panel lottery" (apparently they allow a huge number of poorly tuned/funky panels to make it through QA ... meaning multiple returns for some people) - but anyway, that's an interesting tech that improves the existing 4K/HDR vs. trying to introduce new resolutions/formats.
> 
> I think Mini, and certainly Micro LED will replace OLED, as they have all of the advantage of OLED without any of the downsides.



It will depend on your screen diameter and viewing distance. If you watch a 55" from 10' you would hardly see a difference between 4K and 1080p and with upscaling you shouldn't see any. I think if you sit closer it will depend on the quality of upscaling. If your content is native 4K your gain is probably some extra sharpness which is often reduced for a cinematic effect anyway.

Color reproduction, contrast and viewing angles contribute a lot more to the immersion (i.e. mostly all that you described with HDR). 

I'm thinking about buying an OLED like LG CX 55" which has a latency of <2sec and does native 120Hz for my gaming.


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## Thomas Veil

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I'm sure there will be a lot of trying to credit 4k+ TVs for that being the reason it looks better, but as you said there are other variables that are the real reason it probably looks better.  IMO if you buy a new TV that's 5 years newer than your current TV than it's just going to look better period, even if you aren't big on specs knowledge.
> 
> I have kind of a unique upgrade problem.  I have a 3D TV and 3D Blu-ray player.  I don't watch a ton of 3D content but still think it's cool when I do.  For whatever reason that was deemed a fad that only lasted a couple years.  So now good luck finding a new or bigger TV with 3D capabilities.  At best they'll throw it in a TV that is already indefensibly expensive.  They're still releasing new movie 3D blu-rays.  So I'm not really sure why it's at the same time a technology that seems to be blown off by TV manufactures.  Honestly I feel it should be just as standard issue as 4k at this point.



I know what you mean. I thought about 3D when I bought a few Blu-Rays that came with 3D discs, but ran into the same problem as you: manufacturers don't seem interested in it.

How is it at home, really? I saw "Suicide Squad" in 3D in a theater, and if you know the end credits sequence, it's an orgy of color and three dimensional weaponry. In the theater it was impressive as hell.


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## User.45

DT said:


> Yep, see my post above (TL;DR = HDR has more impact than the resolution).  Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of 8K talk, but unless something is done to radically change the color space/depth, etc., it won't look better for 99.9% of the use cases (assuming you actually had 8K native content).
> 
> I considered a TCL set, one of their new MiniLED products, but too many CS issues, the so called "panel lottery" (apparently they allow a huge number of poorly tuned/funky panels to make it through QA ... meaning multiple returns for some people) - but anyway, that's an interesting tech that improves the existing 4K/HDR vs. trying to introduce new resolutions/formats.
> 
> I think Mini, and certainly Micro LED will replace OLED, as they have all of the advantage of OLED without any of the downsides.



Pulled the trigger on the LG CX 55 OLED. I don't even know how I lived w/o OLED, lol. I've never seen this many shades of blue and green, but the most striking is when the screen ratio of the material differs from that of the TV and you have the dark strip above and below the screen...that always bothered me. Now with OLED that's really black and you don't notice the screen ratio differences anymore, and that makes material so much more enjoyable. And the gaming performance? LOL, since I replaced the old screen, I've played 5 rounds of BO4 League and I ended up top of my team in all (I'm usually second 2+/-1. I probably have now half the latency most other players have...


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## Thomas Veil

If only they’d come down in price...


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## DT

My most recent TV purchase was LCD again, by design, vs. OLED, I'm just not a good candidate for an OLED in the main TV area, it's WAY too bright, a long, deep room with an entire wall of windows/glass doors (to the deck), and sort of secondary, I don't want to be "TV Police" in that room (with burn in concern, and yes, I know about screensavers / jitter modes, I [still] own a Plasma, I get it, it's still a legitimate concern).

Some of the current top model LCD sets produce incredibly black blacks, but have much better SDR/HDR brightness (2000+ nits vs. sub 300 nits), excellent contrast with local dimming (15K:1).  OLED is also terrific for off angle viewing vs. modern VA panels if that's a consideration for your installation location.  LG has very good calibration OOTB, other manufactures you pretty much have to calibrate (though the LG benefits a noticeable amount too).

@Thomas Veil If you keep an eye, especially through Costco/Sams, the LG CX, Sony A8, and the Vizio OLED (that uses an LG panel), but down into the $1200-1400 range for a 55" (though for my  main TV, 65" is now my minimum, so if you're the same, that more into the upper $1800-2000+ even during a good sale).

FYI, the other nice thing about Costco/Sams:  they have special manufacturer deals, so they offer a longer manufacturer's warranty, most products are 3 to 5 years (vs. the typical 1 year from other retailers, or even direct).


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## User.45

Thomas Veil said:


> If only they’d come down in price...



yup... I've explicitly set my psychological threshold to 800 bucks on a TV. LGs went down to $1300-1500 recently, and I told my wife, we might as well just spend our 2020 travel budget on this, given how miserable it's all been.


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## DT

P_X said:


> yup... I've explicitly set my psychological threshold to 800 bucks on a TV. LGs went down to $1300-1500 recently, and I told my wife, we might as well just spend our 2020 travel budget on this, given how miserable it's all been.




Oh yeah, same here, it's such a disposable piece of equipment any longer, my "mental budget" is always under $1500, and more like under $1200.  I also have some, umm, I guess genetic frugality, hahaha, people I know wonder why I don't buy X/Y/Z (especially when it comes to cars), I'm just not programmed like that  Well, not any longer, in my 20s, I bought $3000 amps, now I second guess a new $20 tube for my desk headphone amp ...


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## User.45

DT said:


> My most recent TV purchase was LCD again, by design, vs. OLED, I'm just not a good candidate for an OLED in the main TV area, it's WAY too bright, a long, deep room with an entire wall of windows/glass doors (to the deck), and sort of secondary, I don't want to be "TV Police" in that room (with burn in concern, and yes, I know about screensavers / jitter modes, I [still] own a Plasma, I get it, it's still a legitimate concern).
> 
> Some of the current top model LCD sets produce incredibly black blacks, but have much better SDR/HDR brightness (2000+ nits vs. sub 300 nits), excellent contrast with local dimming (15K:1).  OLED is also terrific for off angle viewing vs. modern VA panels if that's a consideration for your installation location.  LG has very good calibration OOTB, other manufactures you pretty much have to calibrate (though the LG benefits a noticeable amount too).
> 
> @Thomas Veil If you keep an eye, especially through Costco/Sams, the LG CX, Sony A8, and the Vizio OLED (that uses an LG panel), but down into the $1200-1400 range for a 55" (though for my  main TV, 65" is now my minimum, so if you're the same, that more into the upper $1800-2000+ even during a good sale).
> 
> FYI, the other nice thing about Costco/Sams:  they have special manufacturer deals, so they offer a longer manufacturer's warranty, most products are 3 to 5 years (vs. the typical 1 year from other retailers, or even direct).



Yup, burn in was a concern, but what I read is that it doesn't really happen at low brightness, and we don't really go above 50%...I actually get headaches if it's higher. You're right though, in our previous high-rise floor-to-ceiling window condo this TV would probably be too dim. 

I think if you move a lot and consistently have a dark room, a projector is the safest bet, because you won't break it between moves. It's colors and viewing angles are unbeatable and on a dark night the screen size can hit 80-100". I still have fond memories playin Mass Effect 3 @80".


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## DT

P_X said:


> Yup, burn in was a concern, but what I read is that it doesn't really happen at low brightness, and we don't really go above 50%...I actually get headaches if it's higher. You're right though, in our previous high-rise floor-to-ceiling window condo this TV would probably be too dim.
> 
> I think if you move a lot and consistently have a dark room, a projector is the safest bet, because you won't break it between moves. It's colors and viewing angles are unbeatable and on a dark night the screen size can hit 80-100". I still have fond memories playin Mass Effect 3 @80".





Did you research any of the current projectors?  I haven't looked at them in some time, though I know there's this new-er-ish "short throw", where you can mount it super close to the projection target.  At one point I was seriously considering one for the bedroom, it's dark as needed, it's most only watched at night, with a retractable screen it could sort of "disappear" when not in use.


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## User.45

DT said:


> Did you research any of the current projectors?  I haven't looked at them in some time, though I know there's this new-er-ish "short throw", where you can mount it super close to the projection target.  At one point I was seriously considering one for the bedroom, it's dark as needed, it's most only watched at night, with a retractable screen it could sort of "disappear" when not in use.



Yes, and there are some laser projectors too these days, plus 4K came down to the below $1500 range too. That said I recommend against keeping a TV or projector in the bedroom because it will mess up your sleep. This is actually the reason I don't use a projector anymore. Other than the bedrooms, there isn't a good enough dark room in the house.


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## DT

P_X said:


> That said I recommend against keeping a TV or projector in the bedroom because it will mess up your sleep.




Oh, we've have had a TV in the bedroom for __decades__ (It's currently a 55" Sony LCD).  We watch some TV at night, sometimes run a "dark" audio relaxer (laid back ambient music, natural rain/storm sounds), we use it as another exercise/workout/yoga location (it's a pretty big room).

Plus, how else are we supposed to watch porn?


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## User.45

DT said:


> My most recent TV purchase was LCD again, by design, vs. OLED, I'm just not a good candidate for an OLED in the main TV area, it's WAY too bright, a long, deep room with an entire wall of windows/glass doors (to the deck), and sort of secondary, I don't want to be "TV Police" in that room (with burn in concern, and yes, I know about screensavers / jitter modes, I [still] own a Plasma, I get it, it's still a legitimate concern).
> 
> Some of the current top model LCD sets produce incredibly black blacks, but have much better SDR/HDR brightness (2000+ nits vs. sub 300 nits), excellent contrast with local dimming (15K:1).  OLED is also terrific for off angle viewing vs. modern VA panels if that's a consideration for your installation location.  LG has very good calibration OOTB, other manufactures you pretty much have to calibrate (though the LG benefits a noticeable amount too).
> 
> @Thomas Veil If you keep an eye, especially through Costco/Sams, the LG CX, Sony A8, and the Vizio OLED (that uses an LG panel), but down into the $1200-1400 range for a 55" (though for my  main TV, 65" is now my minimum, so if you're the same, that more into the upper $1800-2000+ even during a good sale).
> 
> FYI, the other nice thing about Costco/Sams:  they have special manufacturer deals, so they offer a longer manufacturer's warranty, most products are 3 to 5 years (vs. the typical 1 year from other retailers, or even direct).



BTW, HomeKit fixes this. the TV shows up in iPhone remote AND the Home app. I can turn it off from anywhere.



DT said:


> Oh, we've have had a TV in the bedroom for __decades__ (It's currently a 55" Sony LCD).  We watch some TV at night, sometimes run a "dark" audio relaxer (laid back ambient music, natural rain/storm sounds), we use it as another exercise/workout/yoga location (it's a pretty big room).
> 
> Plus, how else are we supposed to watch porn?



For me, bedroom = darkest room in the house.


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## Huntn

This weekend spending time with relatives in San Antonio marveling at the picture quality of my nephew’s 77” *4K  OLED TV* by LG. Now I have to go back and take a critical look at my 65” Vizio. What I notice is resolution and details of textures on Drax the Destroyer’s body and facial details of other characters like Gamora really stand out. 


​


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## Huntn

Last night none of the remotes (3) would turn off the TV (Visio-65F).  It was responsive to the remotes but not the power off command. In the past, unplug and replug worked, but when I did that, today it would not turn on. So I found the power-on/off button in the back, turned it on, then researched it, went to the System settings on the TV and told it to “reboot”.  This seems to have fixed the issue.

Purchased the TV in 2019 from Costco + 3 year extended warranty. Have a year left to go on that.


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## Thomas Veil

I was embarrassed to have something like that happen with my 55” JVC TV from Costco. Unplugging fixed the problem, but it kept coming back. I had Costco’s concierge service, and they told me to reset the TV…and there it was, _deep_ into the menu system where I hadn’t seen it before. 

Of course I had to go back in and redo all my custom picture settings, but I haven’t had the problem since. And it’s been years.


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## Ulenspiegel

I am a big movie fan.

Still, I have only 1080p TV sets (Sony, JVC) and Blu-ray players (3 Pioneers, Sony). My son has a 4K LG TV in his room. (He has better eyes...)

With age my eyes are not the same. I had a chance to try 4K, but I saw no significant difference. So, in my case I will stay with 1080p and "simple" Blu-ray discs. Sometimes I buy DVDs, when the title is not available in BR, but with upscaling it does the job.

Advantages of aging.


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## DT

Ulenspiegel said:


> I am a big movie fan.
> 
> Still, I have only 1080p TV sets (Sony, JVC) and Blu-ray players (3 Pioneers, Sony). My son has a 4K LG TV in his room. (He has better eyes...)
> 
> With age my eyes are not the same. I had a chance to try 4K, but I saw no significant difference. So, in my case I will stay with 1080p and "simple" Blu-ray discs. Sometimes I buy DVDs, when the title is not available in BR, but with upscaling it does the job.
> 
> Advantages of aging.




Hahaha, my wife's Dad was convinced there was no difference in broadcast 480i and HD 

FWIW, while 4K does obviously provide more resolution, it's often the additional color space and high-dynamic-range elements that create more of an impact with the video experience.  You could technically have HDR HD, but it's kind of been "attached" to the 4K spec, but it's pretty stunning.


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## DT

BTW, did anyone else notice D+ is now doing IMAX as the display spec for Marvel stuff, not HD, not 4K, it's nearly full screen, i.e., this:






@Huntn 

I'm not sure if it applies to your Vizio set, we have a PQ65X-H1 (that's the Quantum X Series), and we finally got the new firmware, and I can say is wow.  The new color profiles are stunning, the few audio related bugs are fixed, it took a really great TV and made it even more impressive.   We're on V5.41.29.10-1


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## Yoused

Chew Toy McCoy said:


> I read several years back that 4k, in general, is barely perceivable by the human eye.



I was over at my friend's house, the one who gave me his old 3D unit, while he happened to be streaming _Indiana Jones and the Testing of Our Writers to See if They Can Generate More Revenue_ in 4K on his 50-something TV, and it was like looking in a window on the action. So, no, "barely perceptible" is not even close to what 4K is. On the other hand, forget about 8K. As far as I can tell, 4K is way more'n enough.


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## Herdfan

Ulenspiegel said:


> I am a big movie fan.
> 
> Still, I have only 1080p TV sets (Sony, JVC) and Blu-ray players (3 Pioneers, Sony). My son has a 4K LG TV in his room. (He has better eyes...)
> 
> With age my eyes are not the same. I had a chance to try 4K, but I saw no significant difference. So, in my case I will stay with 1080p and "simple" Blu-ray discs. Sometimes I buy DVDs, when the title is not available in BR, but with upscaling it does the job.
> 
> Advantages of aging.




I'm with you.  Most 4K I have seen on display look fake.  Almost like a Mexican soap opera.  The best HD TV I ever had was a Pioneer 720p plasma.  The picture was so great.  Then in the media room I had a Sony 70
 SXRD.  It was sharp, but the screen had a bit of a matte look (similar to the new iMac screens) and I loved that look.  Currently using a 6 year old cheap Epson 1080p projector.  Bought it thinking prices on 4K's would come down because on a 110" screen, it would look good.

Prices really haven't come down for true 4K and it is still chugging along so no reason to upgrade.


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## DT




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## DT

DT said:


> View attachment 10936
> 
> 
> View attachment 10937




Wooo .... !


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## AG_PhamD

DT said:


> View attachment 10936
> 
> 
> View attachment 10937




The joys of the supply chain shortages. 

I’m still using my trusty Bose 3-2-1 audio system. I love it. Bose products are often overrated and overpriced IMO but this thing has great sound, especially for a 2.1 system. Before the days of wireless speakers, it was much more manageable than dealing with all the wiring of a 5.1 or 7.1 surround system. Plus, living in a condo building I don’t want to disturb my neighbors too much with sound. 

We have a 50” 1080p Samsung in our living room- I always thought the picture was almost too good- things seemed kinda weirdly real but artificial. I also recently bought a 4k 43” Pioneer TV (aka Toshiba, aka Hisense- throwback to the old Pioneer Plasmas haha) to put in my home office. I frankly don’t really notice the difference with 4K, probably because it’s not a particularly large TV. 

I don’t watch very much TV so maybe I’m biased, but it seems silly to buy the latest, greatest TV technology when in 2 years it’ll be half the price. In my bedroom at my parents house I have my 32” Sony 720p LCD TV… that thing was like $700-800 back in the day. 

I also have a 1080p DLP projector and accompanying motorized projection screen. I don’t think that’ll ever be installed in this home… I should probably sell it or find some school or something to donate it to.


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## Yoused

My house is getting bored. What should I do to entertain it, before it gets into a fight with the garage?


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## DT

AG_PhamD said:


> I’m still using my trusty Bose 3-2-1 audio system. I love it. Bose products are often overrated and overpriced IMO but this thing has great sound, especially for a 2.1 system. Before the days of wireless speakers, it was much more manageable than dealing with all the wiring of a 5.1 or 7.1 surround system. Plus, living in a condo building I don’t want to disturb my neighbors too much with sound.




We've got a solid AVR, some terrific ol' school speakers, just want to minimize the footprint, remove a huge sub, speakers on stands, wiring (even if it's decently neat, in tracks), etc.  I don't need earth shattering audio with the TV, just decent spatiality, good quality dialog, in fact, I'm going to give this a shot without a sub as I understand it's very good if you're not looking to shake the room (and this is really only for TV vs. a music source).  After a few months if I miss the very low end, I'll just snag one of their wireless subs.

We've gotten all about simplicity, big returns for minimum effort, less clutter, to put it franky:  less shit.  I'm even about ready to get this DAC, Amp, all the associated wiring off my desk and go full wireless.

Part of this - in addition to seeing my parents accumulation of nonsense - is being a little more agile if we decide to really change up our life


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## DT

DT said:


> Wooo .... !
> 
> View attachment 11026




WOO WOO!


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## Cmaier

Herdfan said:


> I'm with you.  Most 4K I have seen on display look fake.  Almost like a Mexican soap opera.




It’s likely the motion smoothing and edge enhancement features in the set.  When I got my new 4k 60” about 2 years ago to replace an old 1080p 52” that died, the picture definitely looked much sharper at 10’ viewing distance.  The HDR was even more of a noticeable difference.

But the “soap opera effect“ took me 3 days to get rid of. I had to go through the menus for each source (where “source” is not just a port, but the type of signal coming through the port - it’s resolution, whether it has HDR, etc.), and disable a bunch of crap.  Now everything looks properly cinematic, without that artificial look you are talking about.  I heard the newer sets might have a simpler way to turn all that off.


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## DT

Cmaier said:


> It’s likely the motion smoothing and edge enhancement features in the set.  When I got my new 4k 60” about 2 years ago to replace an old 1080p 52” that died, the picture definitely looked much sharper at 10’ viewing distance.  The HDR was even more of a noticeable difference.
> 
> But the “soap opera effect“ took me 3 days to get rid of. I had to go through the menus for each source (where “source” is not just a port, but the type of signal coming through the port - it’s resolution, whether it has HDR, etc.), and disable a bunch of crap.  Now everything looks properly cinematic, without that artificial look you are talking about.  I heard the newer sets might have a simpler way to turn all that off.




It's so funky, I can't believe people don't see it.  Both BIL's had TVs with it still on (by default), I turned it off, they "Didn't notice any difference..." 

Even newer sets it still seems to be per input source.


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## Nycturne

DT said:


> It's so funky, I can't believe people don't see it.  Both BIL's had TVs with it still on (by default), I turned it off, they "Didn't notice any difference..."




The one thing I miss after switching to OLED is the strobing backlight (@ 480Hz) that my old 1080p Sony had that was a form of BFI. Good motion resolution, no soap opera effect. HDR wasn’t a thing yet, so the brightness loss wasn’t a big deal either. Newer models than mine have BFI, but since it has to run at the panel’s refresh rate (<= 120Hz), it’s more prone to producing visible flicker.  

Right now I feel like I’m stuck either dealing with soap opera effect, or sample-and-hold related issues with motion resolution, and liking neither.


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## DT

Scored a new HDMI cable, eArc/48Gbps spec, from CableCreation (their products have been solid for me in the past).  There's a lot of snake oil when it comes to cables, but for ~$10 why sweat having a potential choke in the system (all my better quality cables are in use, so kind of needed an extra anyway).

Going to bust out the Sanus bracket I ordered several weeks ago, start mounting that, any maybe breaking down the old AV gear, geez, we could almost go without a rack in the main TV room now, AppleTV doesn't need LOS could stash that behind the TV,  hahaha, the Dreamcast was a bust - the switch, power, etc., could all go on the mantle, maybe move the XBox into another room.


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## DT

Sonos arrived Friday, did a test run by sitting it on a barstool/the box, under the TV - everything worked about as simple as you could expect.  I had the app already installed, so I just got the phone near the new speaker, it registered it on our WiFi, so control through the app, and AirPlay, and by simply connecting the devices like this:  Apple TV >> TV >> Sonos,  the ATV remote seamlessly handles volume control.

Sonos definitely has some Apple DNA, in the design, marketing, even the packaging, a locked/lift off box, the speaker itself was in a cloth bag, it actually came with what I'd assume is an eARC cable (so that was $10 I didn't need to spend ...).  It has 11 speakers (pointing at different angles), 11 amps, microphone arrays - you can tune it to the room with your phone, it supports dozens of formats (DD, DD+, Atmost, etc.)

The really neat thing with Sonos, is you add speakers, and everything just works together, via WiFi, want some physical rear channels?  Buy a pair, plug them in, register in the app, done.

Since our TV is on a wall mount, I went with the Sanus mount, specifically designed for the Arc,  It bolts into the VESA mounts on the TV then supplies replacement hardware for your original mounting bracket, very clever design - it's adjustable vertically and horizontally, so you can get it perfectly under and in front of the TV, it almost looks like it's built in.  I've got other Sanus products, they're always well engineered, and very high quality.

This is the mount FYI:










The sound is pretty stunning, especially the depth/soundstaging, dialogue is beautifully clear and isolated, there's additional modes to tweak the latter.  Some of the effects from the side channels are crazy, I've had some reasonably decent surround setups, and this is excellent, with 1/10th the clutter.

Speaking of:  removed multiple speakers, stands, meters of wiring - and the plan is to move the AVR as well (with the speaker, into a another room), since it kind of serves no purpose (for convenience, I will likely pick up a good switcher to handle a few HDMI sources).

The room seems so much less crowded, thrilled with the final result of audio + aesthetics


----------



## Huntn

DT said:


> Sonos arrived Friday, did a test run by sitting it on a barstool/the box, under the TV - everything worked about as simple as you could expect.  I had the app already installed, so I just got the phone near the new speaker, it registered it on our WiFi, so control through the app, and AirPlay, and by simply connecting the devices like this:  Apple TV >> TV >> Sonos,  the ATV remote seamlessly handles volume control.
> 
> Sonos definitely has some Apple DNA, in the design, marketing, even the packaging, a locked/lift off box, the speaker itself was in a cloth bag, it actually came with what I'd assume is an eARC cable (so that was $10 I didn't need to spend ...).  It has 11 speakers (pointing at different angles), 11 amps, microphone arrays - you can tune it to the room with your phone, it supports dozens of formats (DD, DD+, Atmost, etc.)
> 
> The really neat thing with Sonos, is you add speakers, and everything just works together, via WiFi, want some physical rear channels?  Buy a pair, plug them in, register in the app, done.
> 
> Since our TV is on a wall mount, I went with the Sanus mount, specifically designed for the Arc,  It bolts into the VESA mounts on the TV then supplies replacement hardware for your original mounting bracket, very clever design - it's adjustable vertically and horizontally, so you can get it perfectly under and in front of the TV, it almost looks like it's built in.  I've got other Sanus products, they're always well engineered, and very high quality.
> 
> This is the mount FYI:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sound is pretty stunning, especially the depth/soundstaging, dialogue is beautifully clear and isolated, there's additional modes to tweak the latter.  Some of the effects from the side channels are crazy, I've had some reasonably decent surround setups, and this is excellent, with 1/10th the clutter.
> 
> Speaking of:  removed multiple speakers, stands, meters of wiring - and the plan is to move the AVR as well (with the speaker, into a another room), since it kind of serves no purpose (for convenience, I will likely pick up a good switcher to handle a few HDMI sources).
> 
> The room seems so much less crowded, thrilled with the final result of audio + aesthetics



Did you mention the price on these? Are there wireless rear speakers? We were visiting our neohew who had spent $1200 or so on what I think were JBL. The  rear speakers plugged into the ends of the main bar to charge them, and then he had metal stands behind the sofa to set them on for use. It was pretty immersive except I’m not yet ready to spend that much on a sound system.



			https://smile.amazon.com/JBL-Bar-9-1-Soundbar-Surround/dp/B084KGSV4Q/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1XIV6S2QPM5N5&keywords=jbl+5.1+soundbar+with+wireless+speakers&qid=1642948070&refinements=p_36%3A1253507011&rnid=386442011&s=electronics&sprefix=Sounbar+with+wireless%2Caps%2C131&sr=1-6


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> Sonos arrived Friday, did a test run by sitting it on a barstool/the box, under the TV - everything worked about as simple as you could expect.  I had the app already installed, so I just got the phone near the new speaker, it registered it on our WiFi, so control through the app, and AirPlay, and by simply connecting the devices like this:  Apple TV >> TV >> Sonos,  the ATV remote seamlessly handles volume control.
> 
> Sonos definitely has some Apple DNA, in the design, marketing, even the packaging, a locked/lift off box, the speaker itself was in a cloth bag, it actually came with what I'd assume is an eARC cable (so that was $10 I didn't need to spend ...).  It has 11 speakers (pointing at different angles), 11 amps, microphone arrays - you can tune it to the room with your phone, it supports dozens of formats (DD, DD+, Atmost, etc.)
> 
> The really neat thing with Sonos, is you add speakers, and everything just works together, via WiFi, want some physical rear channels?  Buy a pair, plug them in, register in the app, done.
> 
> Since our TV is on a wall mount, I went with the Sanus mount, specifically designed for the Arc,  It bolts into the VESA mounts on the TV then supplies replacement hardware for your original mounting bracket, very clever design - it's adjustable vertically and horizontally, so you can get it perfectly under and in front of the TV, it almost looks like it's built in.  I've got other Sanus products, they're always well engineered, and very high quality.
> 
> This is the mount FYI:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sound is pretty stunning, especially the depth/soundstaging, dialogue is beautifully clear and isolated, there's additional modes to tweak the latter.  Some of the effects from the side channels are crazy, I've had some reasonably decent surround setups, and this is excellent, with 1/10th the clutter.
> 
> Speaking of:  removed multiple speakers, stands, meters of wiring - and the plan is to move the AVR as well (with the speaker, into a another room), since it kind of serves no purpose (for convenience, I will likely pick up a good switcher to handle a few HDMI sources).
> 
> The room seems so much less crowded, thrilled with the final result of audio + aesthetics








						Surround Set with Sonos Arc, Sub, & One | Sonos
					

Add cinematic surround sound to your home entertainment with Arc in the center, Sub providing the bass, and a pair of Sonos Ones as rear speakers. Experience enveloping sound from all angles with crystal clarity and rumbling bass. Easily control sound with your remote, the app, and your voice.




					www.sonos.com
				




Are you planning to get this?


----------



## Thomas Veil

AG_PhamD said:


> We have a 50” 1080p Samsung in our living room- I always thought the picture was almost too good- things seemed kinda weirdly real but artificial.





Cmaier said:


> It’s likely the motion smoothing and edge enhancement features in the set.  When I got my new 4k 60” about 2 years ago to replace an old 1080p 52” that died, the picture definitely looked much sharper at 10’ viewing distance.  The HDR was even more of a noticeable difference.
> 
> But the “soap opera effect“ took me 3 days to get rid of. I had to go through the menus for each source (where “source” is not just a port, but the type of signal coming through the port - it’s resolution, whether it has HDR, etc.), and disable a bunch of crap.  Now everything looks properly cinematic, without that artificial look you are talking about.  I heard the newer sets might have a simpler way to turn all that off.



I think you've pretty much nailed it there. Sometimes it's also due to contrast settings. Despite having enormous ranges of advertised contrast, some TVs don't really live up to the hype in that category. And that's not even counting how many come out of the box with settings that give the picture a too-bright, almost cartoony look.



Yoused said:


> My house is getting bored. What should I do to entertain it, before it gets into a fight with the garage?



Tell it to go outside and play with some of the other houses.


----------



## diamond.g

Thomas Veil said:


> I think you've pretty much nailed it there. Sometimes it's also due to contrast settings. Despite having enormous ranges of advertised contrast, some TVs don't really live up to the hype in that category. And that's not even counting how many come out of the box with settings that give the picture a too-bright, almost cartoony look.
> 
> 
> Tell it to go outside and play with some of the other houses.



I found Filmmaker mode (LG) seems to disable all of the ”Demo mode” settings. It was jarring watching a YT test video and seeing ghosting, until I remember I disabled all the motion fixing stuff (BFI, motion smoothing etc).

I am sure other sets have a similar mode.


----------



## DT

The Sonos Arc has really opened up over the last week, bass is richer, some of the Atmos content is pretty cosmic, considering the source.  Apparently the true sound also continues to fine tune the audio, it's definitely better than it was on day one, I'm highly satisfied.  And now:  no wires, no stands, no speakers, no AVR (well, it's still sitting on the AV rack, not sure if it's going to stay, FWIW, it's actually a Sanus modular, same brand the Arc mount).



Huntn said:


> Did you mention the price on these? Are there wireless rear speakers?




The Arc is $899, but you can score a discount if you check around or Sonos offers refurb (and you can of course pay full price   Amazon, B&H, BB, Costco etc., all carry them as well, usually without a discount, Costco is $50 cheaper).  I picked up a 15% discount, and free shipping (direct from Sonos).

As I mentioned, this has 11 discrete amps and speakers, including side, front and top firing drivers, and it has some pretty sophisticated audio tech.  You can easily add rears, fronts, sub(s), completely wireless, Sonos has a polished execution that reminds me of Apple.


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> The Sonos Arc has really opened up over the last week, bass is richer, some of the Atmos content is pretty cosmic, considering the source.  Apparently the true sound also continues to fine tune the audio, it's definitely better than it was on day one, I'm highly satisfied.  And now:  no wires, no stands, no speakers, no AVR (well, it's still sitting on the AV rack, not sure if it's going to stay, FWIW, it's actually a Sanus modular, same brand the Arc mount).
> 
> 
> 
> The Arc is $899, but you can score a discount if you check around or Sonos offers refurb (and you can of course pay full price   Amazon, B&H, BB, Costco etc., all carry them as well, usually without a discount, Costco is $50 cheaper).  I picked up a 15% discount, and free shipping (direct from Sonos).
> 
> As I mentioned, this has 11 discrete amps and speakers, including side, front and top firing drivers, and it has some pretty sophisticated audio tech.  You can easily add rears, fronts, sub(s), completely wireless, Sonos has a polished execution that reminds me of Apple.



Their long-terms support is pretty impressive indeed. What is suppling the signal to your Arc? HDMI? Any issues with delay? Can that single bar fill the room? Are you missing the sub?


----------



## DT

P_X said:


> Their long-terms support is pretty impressive indeed. What is suppling the signal to your Arc? HDMI? Any issues with delay? Can that single bar fill the room? Are you missing the sub?




Just for the heck of it, the old setup was this:

AppleTV & Other Devices --> AVR --> TV, the speakers of course running from the amp'ed analog/speaker output on the AVR

So the AVR was also providing switching duties (in addition to amp/audio decoding).  Had very occasional audio sync issues, mostly "lip sync", pretty minor (it might have been the AVR).

New setup is much simpler:

AppleTV --[HDMI2.1/18Gbps/ARC ~15']--> TV --[HDMI2.1/48Gbps/eARC ~ 3'] --> Sonos Arc

Of course, what's missing is the "Other Devices", I could use the AVR to switch, but that adds complexity, and I think I want to use it on the speakers I removed, so I'm looking into a very small HDMI switcher (with proper 2.1/4K @ 120Hz support), but honestly, I could just about switch the cable manually it's done so infrequently.

No delay, audio and video is perfectly in sync. According to the app, it's receiving/decoding various audio specs as expected, including Atmos (when present, some Marvel stuff on D+ sounds fantastic).

It has both ethernet and WiFi, and uses that for all speaker communications, it's nuts to think a "speaker" has a total of 1+4GB storage, and a 1.4GHz quad-core processor, you can monitor, airplay, everything right from their app.

As far as room filling sound, I suppose YMMV, has 11 discrete amps/drivers, it's pretty powerful, like easily too loud.  At our typical listening volume, dialog, effects and a reasonable amount of bass is present.  The main TV room where it's located is like 14x14 with an open "back wall" that leads into a 18+ deep (and same width) kitchen area and it's loud and extraordinarily clear standing in there as well.

Good question about the sub.  I mean, let's be honest, it would be better, when you add it, the system compensates, like adjusts the crossovers, balances everything out - while I'm not into ear shattering, explosion sound effects, I'm sure it really richens up the music experience, if you push the low frequency hard (for music) it's just physics, a low freq driver the size that's in the arc can't keep up.   I'd say my chances of adding a sub are better than 50/50.


----------



## DT

@P_X 

I don't know if you ever watch Peter Pee, love this guy, he has some good reviews/analysis of Sonos gear, including the Arc (and yes, I giggle at his name because I'm an immature idiot ...).

This was one I watched a few times, because I had kind of set an in-head budget, and I considered a Beam Gen 2 + Sub vs. the Arc (without sub), interesting that the Beam didn't open up as much as the Arc when each is combined with the sub (I would've expected the less capable soundbar to compensate more):






And here's a great one on just the Arc being run alone, with one sub and then with a dual sub setup:


----------



## DT

FMA.

There was an insane Sonos deal, I suspect an old discount code, I tried to get in on it, BTT the email arrived from SlickDeals, it was no longer valid.  I would've definitely scored a sub


----------



## User.45

DT said:


> FMA.
> 
> There was an insane Sonos deal, I suspect an old discount code, I tried to get in on it, BTT the email arrived from SlickDeals, it was no longer valid.  I would've definitely scored a sub



the demo above looks pretty interesting. Arc could be a super convenient addition to me. The second video with the 2 subs is interesting and sounds expensive. Since I'm conservative with the bass boost, I'd use it to improve SNR of low mids (200-500), but that's the more directional part of the bass, so yeah that would probably demand 2 subs. THough if I could extend my Mackies with it it could be worth it.

*It seems to cross over between 110 and 60Hz. Wonder if this can actually be paired with non-sonos wired speakers.


----------



## Huntn

After  a year of watching a 65” 4k Visio TV, regarding the 55” Sony it replaced, I finally got the Sony out of the guest bedroom, and made the effort to swap a tall TV Armoir with a tall but not as tall chest in the closet, so I could get it up in our bedroom (Ha ha in advance )  First thing I noticed was the picture was not as good. There was a time I might have said I didn’t  see the difference, but there is a definite difference. I mean the 2k picture is fine for the bedroom, but 4k is the standard to beat. Waiting on the 8k, 90”. 

​


----------



## DT

This was hinted at in some software config files several months ago, looks like it's close:









						This is the design of Sonos’ upcoming Sub Mini
					

The Sub Mini is cylinder-shaped and smaller than the Sub.




					www.theverge.com
				





Sonos also just released their new entry level soundbar:





__





						Ray: The Small HD Gaming Soundbar | Sonos
					

Introducing Ray, the compact soundbar perfect for small to medium rooms, and equipped with an optical connection for TVs and PC gaming alike. Ray achieves perfect balance with custom acoustics and anti-distortion technology. Upgrade your digital audio with Sonos.




					www.sonos.com
				





Might be looking at a nice setup with a Ray + Mini Sub for under $700


----------



## DT

DT said:


> I mean, let's be honest, it would be better, when you add it, the system compensates, like adjusts the crossovers, balances everything out - while I'm not into ear shattering, explosion sound effects, I'm sure it really richens up the music experience, if you push the low frequency hard (for music) it's just physics, a low freq driver the size that's in the arc can't keep up.  * I'd say my chances of adding a sub are better than 50/50.*




I guess it's more like 100%, since one is on the way.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> I guess it's more like 100%, since one is on the way.




It didn't ship till a few days later, then as I assumed would happen, the delivery date was while we were OOT, so I put a va-ca hold on FedEx through Sunday (yesterday), and it arrived today.

Wow.  Yeah, this totally sorts out the low end, moves the Arc totally into its frequency sweet spots.  Holy hell, music (which wasn't the primary motivation of this purchase) is so good, this may become my primary listening choice (even from a room away).

The setup experience is so Apple-like, unbox (really nice packaging, just like opening a Mac), attach one cable, the power, plug it in - open the Sonos app, it sees the device, register it into the living room, it knows we already have an Arc, configures everything, it does an update on the Sub firmware, changes the tuning/crossover points to work with the Arc.

Done.  So easy, and it can sit anywhere, and you can add a 2nd one too!


----------



## Edd

DT said:


> It didn't ship till a few days later, then as I assumed would happen, the delivery date was while we were OOT, so I put a va-ca hold on FedEx through Sunday (yesterday), and it arrived today.
> 
> Wow.  Yeah, this totally sorts out the low end, moves the Arc totally into its frequency sweet spots.  Holy hell, music (which wasn't the primary motivation of this purchase) is so good, this may become my primary listening choice (even from a room away).
> 
> The setup experience is so Apple-like, unbox (really nice packaging, just like opening a Mac), attach one cable, the power, plug it in - open the Sonos app, it sees the device, register it into the living room, it knows we already have an Arc, configures everything, it does an update on the Sub firmware, changes the tuning/crossover points to work with the Arc.
> 
> Done.  So easy, and it can sit anywhere, and you can add a 2nd one too!



Love Sonos. I'd replace my Playbase with an Arc but hard to justify, with cost and size of the space. I also may have an issue with using an HDMI connected speaker (Playbase is optical only) because my last TV would not supply sound to my TV headphone cradle IF the connected speaker was HDMI.  My last TV was Sony with a Sony speaker so that could be a brand-specific issue.  I had to switch that speaker to optical connection (wasn't happy about that) for the headphones to function at all.  And there are times when headphones come in so handy, I'm surprised everyone doesn't have a set connected to the TV.


----------



## DT

Edd said:


> Love Sonos. I'd replace my Playbase with an Arc but hard to justify, with cost and size of the space. I also may have an issue with using an HDMI connected speaker (Playbase is optical only) because my last TV would not supply sound to my TV headphone cradle IF the connected speaker was HDMI.  My last TV was Sony with a Sony speaker so that could be a brand-specific issue.  I had to switch that speaker to optical connection (wasn't happy about that) for the headphones to function at all.  And there are times when headphones come in so handy, I'm surprised everyone doesn't have a set connected to the TV.




I'd been interested in their gear for a while, I have friends that love it, not just the audio itself, but the overall ownership experience.

I could've done a full set of replacement speakers, run wire, continued to use the AVR, etc., and I've certainly spent a ton of money in the past on discrete setups, hell, I recall spending, well, a bunch, on just a stereo setup for audio only.  This seems to be a perfect mix of:

Audio quality
Features
Convenience/simplicity
Design/aesthetics

Sonos just updated their "smart" functions for volume which works perfectly, so now I can "Hey Sonos" (snicker ...) to the Arc and easily do things like adjust the volume.


----------



## DT

We finally did the full reorg/redesign downstairs, I had a bunch of shit just sitting there, not in use, not even plugged in.

So now, downstairs, the setup is:  AppleTV >> TV >> Sonos, that's it.  I swapped out my long HDMI that was run down some conduit, making that simpler, so that now holds just a power extension and an ethernet cable.  The AppleTV is on the mantle, doesn't need to be LOS but I like to see the light, on the other side (again, where I can see the status light),  I have a Airport setup as an AP, and using the ethernet ports for the ATV and Sonos Arc, Sub is on WiFi and it's just chillin' in the corner where the rack used to be (I'm going to find some kind LED for light it )

The room downstairs is so much less crowded, thrilled with the final result of audio + aesthetics + features.

If we do decide to setup a console again, it could also go on the mantel, standing the side, tucked behind the TV, I may still do that with our XB1S since it's our BD player (and who knows, we might occasionally fire up a game )

FWIW, the rack went into the bedroom, it's a nice Sanus piece, swapped out the existing, mediocre rack, had to drop a shelf from the Sanus (it's modular) to get our desired height, it wound up perfectly, slightly higher.  I had originally thought about using the AVR, speakers in the bedroom, but same thing, a bunch of wires, etc., I think I'll just wait and do a Sonos Ray and one of their Mini Subs when they eventually drop.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> If we do decide to setup a console again, it could also go on the mantel, standing the side, tucked behind the TV, I may still do that with our XB1S since it's our BD player (and who knows, we might occasionally fire up a game )




I did this. 

Scored a "official" stand, where it orients the XB on the side, had a power strip already on the mantel so power solved.

I was being dense about needing an AV switcher, I'm used to thinking like: Source >> AVR - [speakers] - >> TV, where with the Sonos it's Source >> TV >> Sonos [speakers].  So simple enough, just used an HDMI port right on the TV (3 of 4 in use) to the XB.

I fired up a BD (Event Horizon), had a couple of quick video tweaks, looks good.  Selected a good scene to check out the audio, sounded flat and dialog was way in the background.  I check the Sonos app and see stereo as the current output from the TV.   I saw other audio options in the XB, including Dolby Atmos (which the Arc supports), that required me to download support from the MS XB store.  Weird, though I guess since it's not a free license, they don't just include it on every console.  Even more odd, to get headphone support, it was actually a paid download (~$15), otherwise free.

Get that downloaded, selected Dolby Atmos on the XB, see that indicated on the Sonos app, and wow, yeah, pretty spectacular.

I also cleaned up the inputs (removed unused), relabled, set things for auto-detect (or last input used), updated the XB iOS app (remote control via WiFI vs, IR), works great, no additional hardware, and the XB tucked nicely behind the TV on the mantel.


----------



## DT

DT said:


> This was hinted at in some software config files several months ago, looks like it's close:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the design of Sonos’ upcoming Sub Mini
> 
> 
> The Sub Mini is cylinder-shaped and smaller than the Sub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theverge.com




Sonos Sub Mini announced and available for pre-order!  Woot!





__





						Sub Mini: The Compact Subwoofer with Big Bass | Sonos
					

Add remarkable depth to every scene and song with Sub Mini from Sonos. Sub Mini is elegant and compact enough to blend in beside your furniture or fit easily under a desk or table. Pair with with Beam, Ray, One, or One SL to augment your home theater with surprisingly rich, clear, and balanced...




					www.sonos.com
				





Yep, the Sub Mini, delivered is $754 with a Ray, or $935 with a Beam (Gen 2)  That's a pretty killer, wireless, very little spaced used, surround setup for those prices!


----------



## fischersd

Heh...I won't be purchasing a sub anytime soon   I have a Sonos Arc and two Sonos One's as satellites (mounted on the wall) - WAY too much bass for my neighbours already. 

Our streaming providers (and Apple) really need to provide better audio controls so we can normalize the audio.  The super-loud sound effects and music and the super-quiet speech make for me using the volume control on my remote way too damn much!!! 

Heh...I really should get some stands for the One's and take them off of the wall...maybe that would appease the neighbours.


----------



## DT

I'm wondering if the Mini would be add a decent amount of sub freq sound without being too loud[?]

Our Arc seems to do a pretty job with balancing things, but I listen pretty loud, hahahaha, you know it's probably too loud when your 14 years hollers down from her room, "Dad, turn down your superhero show!!!"


----------



## DT

"I'm watching She-Hulk, come down and watch it with me!"

"I'm doing my Algebra homework!"

"Skip it, Hulk is more important!  Dad smash puny math teacher!"


----------



## Huntn

*Power Reset to get your TV to turn on*
I have. 55” Sony TV that has been relegated to our bedroom. It’s about 10 years old. Periodically it will not turn on. I’ve double checked power available to the TV and found this article:









						Will Your Sony TV Not Turn On? A Few Common Fixes
					

The Sony brand is synonymous with top of the line electronics, and their TVs certainly meet those expectations. But what do you do when your TV refuses to turn on? In this article, we’ll show you a few common




					www.alphr.com
				




It mentions a power reset. Unplugging the TV for several minutes, then back in fixed it. I’m wondering what would cause the need for a power reset? I was gone last week and there was a power surge/loss of power momentarily and I suspect that is the cause. 

Any TV technicians reading this?


----------



## DT

DT said:


> Sonos Sub Mini announced and available for pre-order!  Woot!
> 
> Yep, the Sub Mini, delivered is $754 with a Ray, or $935 with a Beam (Gen 2)  That's a pretty killer, wireless, very little spaced used, surround setup for those prices!




The Mini Sub + Gen 2 Beam is actually $833 when purchased together (at least for now, it is a "sale"), that's a pretty sweet setup for under $900:





__





						Entertainment Set with Beam & Sub Mini | Sonos
					

Turn your small or medium-sized room into your personal home theater with a compact smart soundbar and subwoofer from Sonos. Sub Mini balances out the lowest frequencies so Beam sounds even better. Stream music and more over WiFi using the Sonos app, your voice, and Apple AirPlay 2.




					www.sonos.com


----------



## Citysnaps

Huntn said:


> *Power Reset to get your TV to turn back on*
> I have. 55” Sony TV that has been relegated to our bedroom. It’s about 10 years old. Periodically it will not turn on. I’ve double checked power available to the TV and found this article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will Your Sony TV Not Turn On? A Few Common Fixes
> 
> 
> The Sony brand is synonymous with top of the line electronics, and their TVs certainly meet those expectations. But what do you do when your TV refuses to turn on? In this article, we’ll show you a few common
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.alphr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It mentions a power reset. Unplugging the TV for several minutes, then back in fixed it. I’m wondering what would cause the need for a power reset? I was gone last week and there was a power surge/loss of power momentarily and I suspect that is the cause.
> 
> Any TV technicians reading this?




I have a similar issue with a four year old 75" Sony.  It starts throwing up a goofy colorful circles animation on the screen.  Unplugging it for 10 or so seconds and plugging it back in fixes it.   Seems to happen maybe 3-4 times a year.  I've gotten to be ok with that annoyance.


----------



## Edd

DT said:


> The Mini Sub + Gen 2 Beam is actually $833 when purchased together (at least for now, it is a "sale"), that's a pretty sweet setup for under $900:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Entertainment Set with Beam & Sub Mini | Sonos
> 
> 
> Turn your small or medium-sized room into your personal home theater with a compact smart soundbar and subwoofer from Sonos. Sub Mini balances out the lowest frequencies so Beam sounds even better. Stream music and more over WiFi using the Sonos app, your voice, and Apple AirPlay 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonos.com



Gen 2 Beam has Atmos now . Would it be an improvement over the my Playbase, I wonder? It’s a small space so I don’t need a ton of power. I’ve avoided the Arc due to price and seems like overkill for that space.


----------



## DT

Edd said:


> Gen 2 Beam has Atmos now . Would it be an improvement over the my Playbase, I wonder? It’s a small space so I don’t need a ton of power. I’ve avoided the Arc due to price and seems like overkill for that space.




It's supposed to be pretty solid Atmos, even though it doesn't have upward firing speakers, and just generally outstanding sound, clarity (excellent for dialog in movies), and I can't tell you how handy the voice control is for volume.

Did you know you can get a 15% discount from your Playbase?  They have an upgrade program, check into it, I think that qualifies.


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## Edd

DT said:


> It's supposed to be pretty solid Atmos, even though it doesn't have upward firing speakers, and just generally outstanding sound, clarity (excellent for dialog in movies), and I can't tell you how handy the voice control is for volume.
> 
> Did you know you can get a 15% discount from your Playbase?  They have an upgrade program, check into it, I think that qualifies.



Thanks for that info. I have a couple of Play Ones also. Looks like you can add them up for a max of 30% off a purchase. So, looks like I could get a Beam Gen 2 for under $315.


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## DT

You can stack the discount?  Holy smokes!


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## DT

DT said:


> The Mini Sub + Gen 2 Beam is actually $833 when purchased together (at least for now, it is a "sale"), that's a pretty sweet setup for under $900:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Entertainment Set with Beam & Sub Mini | Sonos
> 
> 
> Turn your small or medium-sized room into your personal home theater with a compact smart soundbar and subwoofer from Sonos. Sub Mini balances out the lowest frequencies so Beam sounds even better. Stream music and more over WiFi using the Sonos app, your voice, and Apple AirPlay 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonos.com





Some kind of sale going down this Friday at Sonos, if it includes the  Mini/Beam bundle, I may pull the trigger for the bedroom, and Rakuten has 2% CB at Sonos as well.


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## DT

The above did not include that bundle, but there's another "pre-Black Friday" even starting today at 11a PST (so still 3 hours away for me).


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## Edd

I didn’t end up getting the Beam. I can’t find the legs for my TV which I’d need for a soundbar. There’s no way I’d toss those, electronics stuff is the only thing I won’t throw away.

I did get a Roam, however, which lives in the spare bedroom officially, but often toss it in the bathroom when I’m just playing music for awhile. I’m kinda considering getting a second Roam and using the two of them for a poor man’s surround sound, only when we’re watching something that merits it. The living room just isn’t configured properly for using a couple of Ones for proper surround sound. The Roams run on battery so you can just put them anywhere for a two hour movie.


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## DT

Oh yeah, the Roam seems super handy being portable, hahaha, glad I'm not the only one who brings speakers, beverages , etc., into the bathroom   Nothing beats a shower beer while listening to a podcast  

Oh I saw this on SlickDeals, some good deals next Friday, and it includes the Roam.

Starting November 20 - Sonos Black Friday: Sonos Arc $719, Sonos Beam $359, Sonos Sub $599, Sonos One $175, Sonos One SL $159, Sonos Roam $143, Sonos Roam SL $127 w/ Free Shipping​


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## DT

20% off on a few items, NOT including the new Mini sub, and only one item, but I went ahead and got a Beam Gen 2 for the bedroom   20% on Sonos pretty decent and I can score a sub later.


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## Herdfan

DT said:


> 20% off on a few items, NOT the new Mini sub, and only one item, butI went ahead and got a Beam Gen 2 for the bedroom   20% on Sonos pretty decent and I can score a sub later.




Ok, so dumb question.

Do these soundbars come on with the TV?  Or do you have to turn them on separately?


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## DT

Herdfan said:


> Ok, so dumb question.
> 
> Do these soundbars come on with the TV?  Or do you have to turn them on separately?




There's no dumb questions ...

As you'll see below, there's only dumb answers   

For the most configurations, I'd say they come on with the TV or are just on.  Like the Arc/Sub setup on  the TV in the family room is always on, I send music to it from Spotify all the time, without the TV or AppleTV on, I never think about the power status.  For the bedroom and family room, both TVs use an AppleTV as the only source, so we press one button on the ATV remote, and the TV comes on too (via ARC/eARC, not to be confused with the Sonos Arc soundbar) and the soundbar is just kind of always on standby.

That's a really nice thing about soundbars, at least the Sonos products, it's super seamless, it's basically like the TV audio, regardless of how the TV gets audio, from an external device like AppleTV (or Fire, or whatever) or from internal "smart" TV apps.


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## Edd

Herdfan said:


> Ok, so dumb question.
> 
> Do these soundbars come on with the TV?  Or do you have to turn them on separately?



My answer is similar to DTs. I have a Sonos Playbase, which is an older piece of gear than his Arc, and it just comes on when the TV wants it to. There’s no remote or power-on to think about. Sonos is awesome, and works very well with Apple products, too.


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## Herdfan

DT said:


> There's no dumb questions ...
> 
> As you'll see below, there's only dumb answers
> 
> For the most configurations, I'd say they come on with the TV or are just on.  Like the Arc/Sub setup on  the TV in the family room is always on, I send music to it from Spotify all the time, without the TV or AppleTV on, I never think about the power status.  For the bedroom and family room, both TVs use an AppleTV as the only source, so we press one button on the ATV remote, and the TV comes on too (via ARC/eARC, not to be confused with the Sonos Arc soundbar) and the soundbar is just kind of always on standby.
> 
> That's a really nice thing about soundbars, at least the Sonos products, it's super seamless, it's basically like the TV audio, regardless of how the TV gets audio, from an external device like AppleTV (or Fire, or whatever) or from internal "smart" TV apps.




@DT  One more question on the Sonos Soundbar.

We are headed out to the new house tomorrow and plan on stopping at BB on the way up and thinking about getting one of these.

Can you fire it up without the TV?  I am just thinking with the open concept of the new house, it would be nice to be able to use this to play background music from my Spotify app without turning on 
the TV.

I currently have several G1 products including some Connect Amps and Play speakers and they work just fine from Spotify.

Thanks


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