# March 8th event announced!



## Deleted member 215

The rumors were true. Apple’s next event, “Peek performance”, will be on March 8th.

What do you think will be revealed? What are you hoping will be revealed?


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## Clix Pix

I always watch these events, even if I am not in the market for something new.....   I don't think any of the rumored items will be on my must-have list this tine around.


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## Cmaier

Most interesting thing to me will be M2, though I’m pretty sure it’s about 15% faster single-threaded, so maybe not much of a surprise in store.


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## DT

New M1Pro / M1Max / M<something-something> based Mini, or some variant of a headless machine (Mini Pro, MacCube Pro, etc ...)


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## Runs For Fun

I’m dying for a 27” iMac. I would love to see that at this event but none of the rumors seem to suggest it will be announced. I would maybe consider a Mac Mini if it has some beefy specs. Maybe an OG HomePod replacement? Or maybe AirPods Pro 2?


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## Deleted member 215

I’d like to see a beefy Mac Mini as well, but only if there’s also a new monitor. Not using some flimsy third party display…and definitely not buying a $5K standless monitor


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## Runs For Fun

TBL said:


> I’d like to see a beefy Mac Mini as well, but only if there’s also a new monitor. Not using some flimsy third party display…and definitely not buying a $5K standless monitor



Same. I would definitely consider a Mac Mini if Apple also had a good monitor that wasn’t as expensive as the Pro Display XDR.


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## DT

Cmaier said:


> Most interesting thing to me will be M2, though I’m pretty sure it’s about 15% faster single-threaded, so maybe not much of a surprise in store.




I'm still thinking there's going to be a "desktop" flavor of the M1 P/M, i.e., something will all P-cores (swapped in for the E-cores),  that would make a stout mid/mid-upper range for a new Mini, and a 27"+ iMac.

A Mini with an M1 Max with 10 P-cores and a 32 core GPU would be pretty fantastic.


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## Cmaier

DT said:


> I'm still thinking there's going to be a "desktop" flavor of the M1 P/M, i.e., something will all P-cores (swapped in for the E-cores),  that would make a stout mid/mid-upper range for a new Mini, and a 27"+ iMac.
> 
> A Mini with an M1 Max with 10 P-cores and a 32 core GPU would be pretty fantastic.




Apple’s E-cores, particularly the new ones from A15, are pretty beefy (performance-wise), and I think given the area and thermal savings, it’s worth while including a couple of them to handle OS tasks.


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## DT

Cmaier said:


> Apple’s E-cores, particularly the new ones from A15, are pretty beefy (performance-wise), and I think given the area and thermal savings, it’s worth while including a couple of them to handle OS tasks.




I guess scheduling all those low-er-ish performance, background type chores to a low thermal component makes sense.   To be honest, I was kind of surprised a new Mac Mini - with the M1P and M1M as they're used in the MBPs - didn't show up sooner (which was why I was thinking the delay was due to a slightly tweaked version being released).

What's the current WOTS about the M2 availability?  Possible, or even likely, Apple should show M2 based products on March 8th?


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## Cmaier

DT said:


> I guess scheduling all those low-er-ish performance, background type chores to a low thermal component makes sense.   To be honest, I was kind of surprised a new Mac Mini - with the M1P and M1M as they're used in the MBPs - didn't show up sooner (which was why I was thinking the delay was due to a slightly tweaked version being released).
> 
> What's the current WOTS about the M2 availability?  Possible, or even likely, Apple should show M2 based products on March 8th?




There should be M2 macbook air/ 13” MBP announced, supposedly.


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## JayMysteri0

Apple already took too long bringing out an iMac that wasn’t an office fashion accessory, so I’m over that.

I’m hoping for a better grade Mac Mini that doesn’t have it’s BT abilities crap out in 2 or 3 years.

So I’ll be keeping an eye out for a new Mac Mini.


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## B01L

M1 Pro/Max Mac mini desktops for sure...?

Sneak peek at the ASi Mac Pro...?

Surprise M2-based SoC for ASi Mac Pro (leapfrogging over the M1 Max SoCs)...?

*M2 Ultra SoC*

15-core CPU (12P/3E)
48-core GPU
16-core Neural Engine
256GB LPDDR5X RAM
500GB/s UMA
*Dual M2 Ultra SoCs*

30-core CPU (24P/6E)
96-core GPU
32-core Neural Engine
512GB LPDDR5X RAM
1TB/s UMA
*Quad M2 Ultra SoCs*

60-core CPU (48P/12E)
192-core GPU
64-core Neural Engine
1TB LPDDR5X RAM
2TB/s UMA


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## SuperMatt

The focus on performance makes me think: iMac Pro and Mac Pro.


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## Clix Pix

I'm thinking that Apple is making a play on words with "peek" and "peak"???


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## Thomas Veil

Unless they've got a product called the iVoyeur.


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## Pumbaa

Thomas Veil said:


> Unless they've got a product called the iVoyeur.



Why not? Perfect follow-up to the iStalk, eh, AirTag.


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## Renzatic

iSeeWhatYou'reDoing.


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## Joe

I'm getting the SE 2022 for my mom. She needs a new phone and doesn't need all of the bells and whistles.


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## Deleted member 215

Mac Studio, anyone? I'll buy it if it isn't insanely priced...

Thinking that maybe the Mac Mini stays on the regular M1/M2 and the "Mac Studio" ends up being the new "mid-tier" non-iMac desktop.


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## Herdfan

Joe said:


> I'm getting the SE 2022 for my mom. She needs a new phone and doesn't need all of the bells and whistles.




Is it different from the previous SE?

Wife likes the size of the SE and her current one is showing its age.


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## Citysnaps

A significantly upgraded (including more ports as well as performance) Mac Mini would dovetail nicely with Laminar Research's upcoming X-Plane 12 flight simulator.   I'm looking forward to both.


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## DT

citypix said:


> A significantly upgraded (including more ports as well as performance) Mac Mini would dovetail nicely with Laminar Research's upcoming X-Plane 12 flight simulator.   I'm looking forward to both.




Is X-Plane running native on Apple Silicon yet?


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## Citysnaps

DT said:


> Is X-Plane running native on Apple Silicon yet?




Last I heard, no.

But when I was using X-Plane 11.53 on my M1 MBA six months ago via Rosetta, it worked really well with a decent FPS. And that was with my MBA also driving a a large Sony TV (via an HDMI adapter), a secondary iPad for flight maps via WiFi, and with a yoke and rudder pedals through USB.

An upgraded Mini and upcoming X-Plane 12 (word is it will be native AS) would be killer.


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## Joe

Herdfan said:


> Is it different from the previous SE?
> 
> Wife likes the size of the SE and her current one is




Rumors say it’s exactly like the 2020 SE but with updated internals.


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## Herdfan

Any chance Apple will announce they are ditching the Lightning port on the phone for a USB-C like the iPads?

I know, but I can wish.


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## Edd

Herdfan said:


> Is it different from the previous SE?
> 
> Wife likes the size of the SE and her current one is showing its age.



If she’s got an original SE, the 2020 SE (current one) is bigger, based on the iPhone 8. I doubt this new one will be smaller than that. For me, the 2020 SE is the optimum phone size.


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## Pumbaa

Herdfan said:


> Any chance Apple will announce they are ditching the Lightning port on the phone for a USB-C like the iPads?
> 
> I know, but I can wish.



lol

That said, I will be stuck with lightning for years and years even if they were to ditch it now… My AirPods Max and an iPhone 13 Pro Max will not be replaced anytime soon (I hope!).


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## Herdfan

Edd said:


> If she’s got an original SE, the 2020 SE (current one) is bigger, based on the iPhone 8. I doubt this new one will be smaller than that. For me, the 2020 SE is the optimum phone size.




She had an original and then I upgraded her to the 2020 version.  But it has been a lemon as about half her calls don't ring in.

So if there is a new one I will get her one as she likes the size as well.  Ok, she accepts the size as she would be happy with the size of the old 4.


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## Huntn

Was the contact lense they are working on mentioned?


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## DT

Herdfan said:


> Any chance Apple will announce they are ditching the Lightning port on the phone for a USB-C like the iPads?
> 
> I know, but I can wish.




Many folks think that before they'd go USB-C, they'd completely switch over to "wireless", though I'd assume they'd keep some sort of wire based, direct connect option for device recovery.


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## Roller

SuperMatt said:


> The focus on performance makes me think: iMac Pro and Mac Pro.



I guess Apple may give a sneak "peek" at what's coming, but I don't expect more than one non-laptop Mac to be announced for immediate or imminent availability. Much as I'd like that to be a 27" iMac, I expect a high-end Mac mini. But if its specs are right, I may consider it with two monitors instead of waiting for the iMac.


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## B01L

Huntn said:


> Was the contact lense they are working on mentioned?




I gave it a laugh emoji, but AR contact lenses could become a thing some day...?



Roller said:


> I guess Apple may give a sneak "peek" at what's coming, but I don't expect more than one non-laptop Mac to be announced for immediate or imminent availability. Much as I'd like that to be a 27" iMac, I expect a high-end Mac mini. But if its specs are right, I may consider it with two monitors instead of waiting for the iMac.




I think, with the "sealed" aspect of Apple silicon (everything either in the SoC or on the SoC package) AIOs like the iMac may go out of favor; no one likes setting aside a perfectly good display when the actual computer parts need upgrading (via total replacement)...

So this Mac Studio makes sense, mid-range to high-end (assuming M1 Pro to dual M1 Max SoCs) to cover a wide spread of compute power needs; where in the past you had the Mac mini (reasonably priced, but low power) on one end of the spectrum and the Mac Pro (very high-priced, with compute power to match) on the other...


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## Joe

I’m over lightning port. I want usbc so I can have 1 charger for all my devices.


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## DT

Joe said:


> I’m over lightning port. I want usbc so I can have 1 charger for all my devices.




If there needs to be a physical port, holy hell, I agree 1000%, USB-C.  It's small, asymmetric, supports high data throughput, supports high power, and __everything__, including several of Apple's own products, supports it.


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## Huntn

B01L said:


> I gave it a laugh emoji, but AR contact lenses could become a thing some day...?
> 
> 
> 
> I think, with the "sealed" aspect of Apple silicon (everything either in the SoC or on the SoC package) AIOs like the iMac may go out of favor; no one likes setting aside a perfectly good display when the actual computer parts need upgrading (via total replacement)...
> 
> So this Mac Studio makes sense, mid-range to high-end (assuming M1 Pro to dual M1 Max SoCs) to cover a wide spread of compute power needs; where in the past you had the Mac mini (reasonably priced, but low power) on one end of the spectrum and the Mac Pro (very high-priced, with compute power to match) on the other...



I heard about it somewhere recently, although it might have just the glimmer in a researcher’s eye.


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## Nycturne

DT said:


> Many folks think that before they'd go USB-C, they'd completely switch over to "wireless", though I'd assume they'd keep some sort of wire based, direct connect option for device recovery.




As a developer, I really hope they don’t ditch the port completely in favor of wireless. The wireless debugging experience is currently miserable, compared to being physically connected.


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## DT

Nycturne said:


> As a developer, I really hope they don’t ditch the port completely in favor of wireless. The wireless debugging experience is currently miserable, compared to being physically connected.




Yeah, same here, that was my comment about "wired based direct connect", I mentioned recovery, but would be for development as well (thinking something like the Apple Watch "diag port").  To be clear, I don't personally see how they'd completely abandon a physical port, there's a number of use cases where the port is much better (or even necessary), not to mention, the sluggish wireless/inductive charging speeds.


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## SuperMatt

I heard they’re gonna announce the Apple Polishing Cloth - coming in 5 different colors!


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## B01L




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## DT

@B01L 

Nice, yep, that seems to be the WOTS.  I'm assuming up to a 32-core GPU like the current MBP offerings, speaking of ...

If an M1 Max, 10/24/16 core, 32GB, 1TB like in your sig, configures in a 14" to ~$3100, I'm thinking the same in a Studio/Cube would be 700-800 less[?]

The price difference in a matching configuration 13" M1 and Mini M1 is $600, but a 14" has a more expensive display.

And I suppose there's no-way-in-hell this machine is going to offer any modular components, specifically storage (a user accessible NVMe slot would be pretty __swell__)


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## B01L

DT said:


> @B01L
> 
> Nice, yep, that seems to be the WOTS.  I'm assuming up to a 32-core GPU like the current MBP offerings, speaking of ...
> 
> If an M1 Max, 10/24/16 core, 32GB, 1TB like in your sig, configures in a 14" to ~$3100, I'm thinking the same in a Studio/Cube would be 700-800 less[?]
> 
> The price difference in a matching configuration 13" M1 and Mini M1 is $600, but a 14" has a more expensive display.
> 
> And I suppose there's no-way-in-hell this machine is going to offer any modular components, specifically storage (a user accessible NVMe slot would be pretty __swell__)




See me post here for speculation on pricing and BTO options...!


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## Renzatic

B01L said:


> View attachment 12282




FAT MAC!


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## SuperMatt

Renzatic said:


> FAT MAC!


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## DT

Renzatic said:


> FAT MAC!




It's just big boned.


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## B01L

Me at 10yo in the Boys jeans section, "Where are your Husky sizes...?"


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## DT

*Cynthia*: What does he look like?
*Elaine*: Um, well, he's got a lot of character in his face. Um, he's short. Um, he's stocky.
*Cynthia*: Fat. Is that what you're saying, that he's fat?
*Elaine*: Powerful. He is so powerful, he can lift a hundred pounds right up over his head. And um, what else. What else. Oh, right. Um, well, he's kind of, just kind of losing his hair.
*Cynthia*: He's bald?
*Elaine*: No! No, no, no, he's not bald. He's balding.
*Cynthia*: So he will be bald.
*Elaine*: Yup.


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## Renzatic

DT said:


> It's just big boned.




It's fluffy.


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## Pumbaa

Not to size shame, but what would be the point of a larger device than a Mac Mini unless you actually need the space for something? The current Mini is pretty vacuous, right? 

Upgradable storage would be one reason. Would surprise me, though, unless it is a full Mac Pro replacement.

Optical drive would be another. Even more unlikely.

More I/O connectors. Maybe. But doesn’t require that much of an increase.

Screen? Nah, that’s the iMac.

Better cooling for beefy performance? Would be a good reason, but come on…

Looking forward to revisit this post after the event.


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## Deleted member 215

Yeah, I don't get the big size without modular upgradeability either. If a laptop enclosure can handle the M1 Max, there's no need for such a big size for cooling purposes.

Also, the monitor looks cool, but without mini LED, HDR 1600, and ProMotion it's inferior to the MBP (and I wish it wasn't because I am interested in a "pro" Mac desktop that isn't a $12,000 Mac Pro).


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## DT

TBL said:


> Yeah, I don't get the big size without modular upgradeability either. If a laptop enclosure can handle the M1 Max, there's no need for such a big size for cooling purposes.




A MBP with that processor is pretty spread out though, here's the inside of the 14"






Depth: 8.71 inches
Width: 12.31 inches

Of course the motherboard is cut out for the fans and batteries, so it's actually this:






A Mac Mini case is 7.7" D/W,  so it would be two boards using roughly the same component spacing as above (kind of collapsing it into a couple of ~6.5" squares), and I'd imagine the thermal solution would need to be stacked as well[?]  Maybe a large bottom fan like the current design (the rendering above has lower fan outlets), and a smaller cooler in the middle or on top of the board stack with some duct work.

Given the height to width ratio, assuming it's still about 7.7" wide, that looks like about 1/2 the width in height, so ~3.85", not a huge increase, like 2.75 Mac Minis stacked 

It's probably nice to have the additional room to work with, especially if that case design evolves into a multi-processor type configuration.  Of course, that larger space on the rear means plenty o' ports


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## Yoused

DT said:


> A MBP with that processor is pretty spread out though



So the logical approach, really, is more real estate with less thickness – like maybe a thing that could hang from the back of your monitor with stand-offs. That would make better sense for heat shedding.


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## Runs For Fun

I so hope this is true
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1500965814056402945/


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## JayMysteri0

I am curious about the monitor running IOS.

Does that make it a giant immobile iPad when not in use with a Mac?

IF the monitor isn't over $1K, I maybe as interested in at as the new mini.  Could make for a nice small entertainment system if the mini can play 4K content.


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## Cmaier

JayMysteri0 said:


> I am curious about the monitor running IOS.
> 
> Does that make it a giant immobile iPad when not in use with a Mac?
> 
> IF the monitor isn't over $1K, I maybe as interested in at as the new mini.  Could make for a nice small entertainment system if the mini can play 4K content.




If it is running some variant of iOS my guess it would be just for things like allowing airplay, automatically figuring out monitor positioning for multiple desktops, etc.  I doubt it’s a thing where you can install apps, etc.


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## SuperMatt

Cmaier said:


> If it is running some variant of iOS my guess it would be just for things like allowing airplay, automatically figuring out monitor positioning for multiple desktops, etc.  I doubt it’s a thing where you can install apps, etc.



Does the Touch Bar on the Intel MBP’s run a stripped-down iOS? Maybe something similar for the monitor….


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## JayMysteri0

Cmaier said:


> If it is running some variant of iOS my guess it would be just for things like allowing airplay, automatically figuring out monitor positioning for multiple desktops, etc.  I doubt it’s a thing where you can install apps, etc.



But aren't all of those things handled by the connected Mac?

Why would the monitor need to do those things independently of a desktop or laptop?


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## Cmaier

JayMysteri0 said:


> But aren't all of those things handled by the connected Mac?
> 
> Why would the monitor need to do those things independently of a desktop or laptop?




No. This way you could airplay to the monitor without a connected mac, for example.  And macs can’t very easily figure out the arrangement of monitors (the user has to set them up in the System Preferences.).   Keep in mind that all monitors are running some sort of embedded operating system.  Wouldn’t be surprising that the new one would run an iOS variant; after all, even the touchbar on macbook pros ran a variant of iOS.


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## Runs For Fun

SuperMatt said:


> Does the Touch Bar on the Intel MBP’s run a stripped-down iOS? Maybe something similar for the monitor….



Yep they do. I'm guessing it would be similar to that.


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## DT

JayMysteri0 said:


> I am curious about the monitor running IOS.




Great, now my computer __and__ my monitor can crash independently ...


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## DT

OK, on deck, drinks made, watching in main TV room, ass-on-the-sofa


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## Cmaier

And here we go!


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## Cmaier

I could live without Apple TV+ discussion at these things.


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## Cmaier

Friday night baseball? Boo. I am tired of having to watch games with lame broadcasters. Just give me Gary, Keith and Ron.


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## Eric

Cmaier said:


> I could live without Apple TV+ discussion at these things.



Just tuning in and that's all I'm seeing, it's like a huge ad.


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## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Friday night baseball? Boo. I am tired of having to watch games with lame broadcasters. Just give me Gary, Keith and Ron.



iPhone 13, finally!


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## Cmaier

Eric said:


> iPhone 13, finally!



I would have gotten the alpine green 13 if it was around when i got my phone.


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## Eric

Cmaier said:


> I would have gotten the alpine green 13 if it was around when i got my phone.



I'm still rocking the 11, watching to see if there's any reason to upgrade here.


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## Joe

A green iphone? Groundbreaking


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## Cmaier

Eric said:


> I'm still rocking the 11, watching to see if there's any reason to upgrade here.



Yeah, I skipped 12 and went straight from 11 -> 13.


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## Cmaier

Given the new iPad Air, the next iPad Pro will really have to be a huge step up.


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## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Yeah, I skipped 12 and went straight from 11 -> 13.



How much of a difference did you see?


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## Cmaier

Eric said:


> How much of a difference did you see?




Mostly the things that affect me are battery life is much better, and i like the magsafe - I have a mount in my car and it’s nice.  Camera is also better.  That’s about the only differences I run into.


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## Cmaier

Ipad air supporting the same keyboard folios and Apple Pencil, with same processor as ipad pro. So unless you care about cameras, the goofy lidar thing, promotion, or need a bigger model, doesn’t seem to be much reason to buy an iPad Pro.


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## Arkitect

Yikes! Not to get personal, but someone should tell Tim to work on his posture!


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## Eric

Apple needs to up their 64 GB memory minimum, it's almost price gouging at this point.


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## MEJHarrison

Cmaier said:


> I would have gotten the alpine green 13 if it was around when i got my phone.




I've never understood introducing new colors so late in the cycle.  But they keep doing it, so they must sell.


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## Eric

Arkitect said:


> Yikes! Not to get personal, but someone should tell Tim to work on his posture!



Hey man, I look like that every time I get off the couch and he's only 5 years older than me.


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## Cmaier

”One last chip.” So I guess there won’t be two 

I called “M1 Ultra” months ago on MR.


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## Cmaier

M1 Max hidden feature .    We knew about that already. Lots of people saw the crossbar.


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## Joe

MEJHarrison said:


> I've never understood introducing new colors so late in the cycle.  But they keep doing it, so they must sell.




They need something to talk about lol


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## Cmaier

That ultrafusion thing is actually pretty cool.  I imagine it acts like a giant crossbar with fifos, and not so much an asynchronous bus. But who knows.   If apple wanted to do a 2x Ultra, they’d presumably need an interposer die to extend the bus left or right, and things would get much more complicated.  So probably won’t see that until M2.

128GB memory isn’t bad.  16+4 cores.  64 core GPU.  32 neural engine cores.  2x media engine.  So it seems like it would work for most configurations of a future Mac Pro, but maybe not the very highest end configurations.


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## Yoused

DT said:


> Great, now my computer __and__ my monitor can crash independently ...



Someone managed to install adware into my monitor and I cannot get rid of it.


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## Cmaier

Cmaier said:


> That ultrafusion thing is actually pretty cool.  I imagine it acts like a giant crossbar with fifos, and not so much an asynchronous bus. But who knows.   If apple wanted to do a 2x Ultra, they’d presumably need an interposer die to extend the bus left or right, and things would get much more complicated.  So probably won’t see that until M2.
> 
> 128GB memory isn’t bad.  16+4 cores.  64 core GPU.  32 neural engine cores.  2x media engine.  So it seems like it would work for most configurations of a future Mac Pro, but maybe not the very highest end configurations.




hah! It was actually *here* that I predicted the 20 core M1 would be called “Ultra.”


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## DT

Ultra, yes, shove that in the new chubby boy!!


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## DT

Yes! Woo!  Studio with Max and Ultra.


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## Deleted member 215

MR just froze in the middle of the event…


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## Cmaier

I have absolutely no need for it, but I want a mac studio just because it looks cool.  

I need to get a job on The apple silicon team, so I’d have a need for such a machine.


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## Cmaier

TBL said:


> MR just froze in the middle of the event…



Screw those guys. The cool kids are over here, anyway.


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## Cmaier

Those are some womping-big fans.  Must run at low RPMs.


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## Eric

TBL said:


> MR just froze in the middle of the event…



They get an unimaginable amount of traffic on that site so it's no surprise during an event like this.


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## Arkitect

OK. Nice. I'm waiting for the price though...

I wonder if the optical audio connection is back?


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## Deleted member 215

Eric said:


> They get an unimaginable amount of traffic on that site so it's no surprise during an event like this.




Yeah but I’ve been watching events on MR since 2016 and I don’t remember that ever happening before! But I’ll hang here with the cool kids. 

Edit: it’s back but who cares


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## Cmaier

Someone at Apple thinks you can only show two bars on a bar graph


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## Eric

TBL said:


> Yeah but I’ve been watching events on MR since 2016 and I don’t remember that ever happening before! But I’ll hang here with the cool kids.



Someone needs to tell Arn to add a server to his farm lol. But yeah, Cmaier runs this place like a well oiled machine.


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## Arkitect

I am getting really nervous waiting for the price.
I think it is going to be… unprecedented!


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## Runs For Fun

I want this so bad!


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## Cmaier

Is that the Super Bowl half-time set behind her?


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## Joe

TBL said:


> MR just froze in the middle of the event…




Thoughts and prayers


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## Eric

Arkitect said:


> I am getting really nervous waiting for the price.
> I think it is going to be… unprecedented!



Would love to upgrade for my music and photography but it's more likely than not that it will be out of my price range.


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## Cmaier

THey haven’t said much about the display yet.


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## Arkitect

Eric said:


> Would love to upgrade for my music and photography but it's more likely than not that it will be out of my price range.



Yeah… they're keeping that surprise for last…


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## quagmire

Gets the $1000 Pro Stand.....


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## Deleted member 215

Wish the display was mini-LED but mini-LED is still too expensive I guess.


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## Cmaier

Oh! Didn’t guess it would have a camera


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## Deleted member 215

Camera and audio very nice. The XDR display doesn’t have that.


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## Arkitect

I feel this is going to be POA.


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## Cmaier

black trackpad is nice


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## Cmaier

$3999 minimum? Yikes.


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## Arkitect

Aaaaaargh!

Yeah, alas. Too rich for my bank account.


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## Eric

Still with 64GB minimum on their new biggest baddest computer, WTF Apple!

That said, looks like a great system but still too much for my taste.


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## Cmaier

Imagine what the M1 Mac Pro will cost.


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## Cmaier

Eric said:


> Still with 64GB minimum on their new biggest baddest computer, WTF Apple!
> 
> That said, looks like a great system but still too much for my taste.




Was that RAM or storage? I missed it.


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## Eric

Cmaier said:


> Was that RAM or storage? I missed it.



Memory (as I thought I saw it).


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## Cmaier

Eric said:


> Memory (as I thought I saw it).




64GB RAM paired with an M1 Max seems fine.


----------



## Eric

IMO it was underwhelming but in their defense it's hard to come up with something radically new and innovative when you're on an annual cycle like this. Incremental updates it is.


----------



## Arkitect

Well, I'm going to have a little lie down (or a stiff drink!).

For now my Mac Mini 2018 and 27" Apple LED Display 2010 will have to do!


----------



## quagmire

$400 for the Pro like stand.....


----------



## Eric

Cmaier said:


> 64GB RAM paired with an M1 Max seems fine.



My biggest issue with it is the charge point, even looking back 3 or 4 years that was a pretty small amount and memory prices are still pretty cheap. There's no reason they can't make the base 128 in today's market.


----------



## DT

$2K for the Max model seems reasonable, heck, I was speculating more with Pro (basing it off the MBP 14" price model),  a loaded I7 based Mini would be in the same price range.

What was the memory for the $2K Max model?  32GB?  And is that with the full 32-core GPU?

When we were discussing the Studio, I mentioned fans and ductwork would take up a good bit of the space, and it does.  Like @Cmaier pointed out, big volume at low speeds (so quiet).

OK, info is up!


----------



## DT

The $1999 model uses the 24-core GPU, but that's still excellent performance-to-cost:


----------



## DT

+$200 to go to the 32-core GPU, and "only" $400 more to go from 32GB to 64GB of RAM:


----------



## Andropov

TBL said:


> Wish the display was mini-LED but mini-LED is still too expensive I guess.



Same here, I've been wanting an Apple display as good as my MacBook Pro's built-in for a decade now. This would have been it a year ago, but now I have a mini-LED MacBook Pro


----------



## DT

Popped into the main event thread on MR ...

Now I can't count to 10 or remember my name.


----------



## DT

Yeah, $2566.93 OTD for a Studio, M1 Max with 32-core GPU, 32GB, and 1TB storage.  Cheap AC+ for $169 for 3 years.  3% CB using Apple card, and we have some kind of business account as well.

MUST ... RESIST ... CLICKING ... CONFIRM ...


----------



## Deleted member 215

So no more 27" iMac. Too bad.


----------



## Yoused

TBL said:


> So no more 27" iMac. Too bad.



Some folks over at tOP are all "**** Apple!" over this.


----------



## MEJHarrison

TBL said:


> So no more 27" iMac. Too bad.




That's what I was hoping for too.  Hopefully later this year.  Too bad.  I'm ready to buy one ASAP.


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> So no more 27" iMac. Too bad.




I think it’s coming. They probably have a supply issue with mini-LED displays (I assume that’s what they want to do).


----------



## Deleted member 215

Maybe. Some people think it's not coming because they said the transition to AS was complete except for the Mac Pro. And now the 27" iMac has disappeared from the site...

A mini-LED 27" iMac would be perfect, though.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Well RIP wallet. Ordered a base model M1 Ultra and base model Studio Display


----------



## Cmaier

Runs For Fun said:


> Well RIP wallet. Ordered a base model M1 Ultra and base model Studio Display




You bastard!  Looking forward to hearing about the monitor - very interested in that, and would consider pairing one with my 2021 MBP.


----------



## Cmaier

TBL said:


> Maybe. Some people think it's not coming because they said the transition to AS was complete except for the Mac Pro. And now the 27" iMac has disappeared from the site...
> 
> A mini-LED 27" iMac would be perfect, though.




Yeah, hard to know what to make of that language.  Could mean model-for-model, or could mean product line-for-product line.  After all, they still sell a version of Mini with x86, unless I missed something.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> Yeah, hard to know what to make of that language.  Could mean model-for-model, or could mean product line-for-product line.  After all, they still sell a version of Mini with x86, unless I missed something.



I’m wondering if they will just discontinue the higher end Mac Mini eventually and replace it with this. I couldn’t see them keeping two Mac Mini models when the higher end one would be very similar to this.


----------



## Andropov

TBL said:


> Maybe. Some people think it's not coming because they said the transition to AS was complete except for the Mac Pro. And now the 27" iMac has disappeared from the site...
> 
> A mini-LED 27" iMac would be perfect, though.



Weirdly, one of the promotional videos of today's keynote showed a 27" (Intel) iMac. I didn't see any other 'old' Mac, except for the Mac Pros. But maybe that's just because they're harder to spot (haven't changed as much with the AS transition), I don't want to read too much into it. Buuut I still think it's weird.


----------



## Nycturne

TBL said:


> So no more 27" iMac. Too bad.




I'm honestly surprised Apple did this. Jobs to me seemed to be very much in favor of the AIO. That said, I like this approach. Many folks talk about repairability, and an AIO isn't super great for sustainability. So this represents a step in the direction of keeping the lineup simple, while adding flexibility to it, and these 5K/6K displays can be kept around longer when it is time to swap out the CPU/GPU box attached to it. 

Right as 2020 was starting, I was ditching a 2015 5K iMac so I could add a PC on my desk and share the display with a Mac. It was a bit of a mess as I had the choice of:

- Mac mini with eGPU, and hope the eGPU wasn't the source of a bunch of problems (it was for me).
- MacBook Pro that would run loud and hot under load.
- Mac Pro which was expensive and big.

If I had to do things over today? Things are night and day different, and I would say there's not much in the way of bad choices here:

- Mac mini is not hobbled by a slow GPU, and would make a decent little desktop for use cases like CAD/Photography work that can lean on Metal for acceleration.
- MacBook Pro is great if you work untethered.
- Mac Studio covers the range of folks who used the 5K iMac as a workstation, as well as folks that can't make room for the 5K iMac, but want the performance of one.  



Yoused said:


> Some folks over at tOP are all "**** Apple!" over this.




This I'm not surprised at. That's the one thing tOP discussions about product line changes always brings out.


----------



## Nycturne

Runs For Fun said:


> I’m wondering if they will just discontinue the higher end Mac Mini eventually and replace it with this. I couldn’t see them keeping two Mac Mini models when the higher end one would be very similar to this.




I suspect it'll either be what you say, or we might still see a Mac mini with the M1 Pro? 

But a Mac mini with the Max seems out of the question at this point.


----------



## Andropov

Nycturne said:


> I'm honestly surprised Apple did this. Jobs to me seemed to be very much in favor of the AIO. That said, I like this approach. Many folks talk about repairability, and an AIO isn't super great for sustainability. So this represents a step in the direction of keeping the lineup simple, while adding flexibility to it, and these 5K/6K displays can be kept around longer when it is time to swap out the CPU/GPU box attached to it.



The problem when giving choices to users is that sometimes they pick the wrong ones. I've seen too many people with a $3000 computer cheaping out with a crappy $200 display. The iMac solved that.


----------



## DT

HERF DERF!  WHAT'S THE FPS IN CALL OF DUTY?






Runs For Fun said:


> Well RIP wallet. Ordered a base model M1 Ultra and base model Studio Display




Oh, I assume that means you'll be needing my shipping address.

Cool.



Runs For Fun said:


> I’m wondering if they will just discontinue the higher end Mac Mini eventually and replace it with this. I couldn’t see them keeping two Mac Mini models when the higher end one would be very similar to this.




I still think we'll see an upgraded Mini, at least an M1Pro config, maybe the next gen mid-range[?]

An M1 8/8, 16GB is $899, maybe something around $1199, for an M1 Pro 8/14 with 16GB, of course options will start pushing it up to the base config of the new Studio.





Nycturne said:


> I'm honestly surprised Apple did this. Jobs to me seemed to be very much in favor of the AIO. That said, I like this approach. Many folks talk about repairability, and an AIO isn't super great for sustainability. So this represents a step in the direction of keeping the lineup simple, while adding flexibility to it, and these 5K/6K displays can be kept around longer when it is time to swap out the CPU/GPU box attached to it.




It was a bit surreal, Ternus said, "... finally, many want a modular system and display ..." and I about fell off the sofa.


----------



## Citysnaps

I've been planning on a new Mini for Laminar Research's  upcoming X-Plane 12 for almost a year.  Have a feeling the $2K version would be fine; especially with all the ports. Have to think more about the $4K version.  If I could rearrange my office/studio to use the Mac Studio for X-Plane _and_ for my photo processing/editing then that could be a reason to go with the $4K version. A shame the new display wasn't 32"; ie a lesser LCD version of the XDR.


----------



## Herdfan

Eric said:


> My biggest issue with it is the charge point, even looking back 3 or 4 years that was a pretty small amount and memory prices are still pretty cheap. There's no reason they can't make the base 128 in today's market.




They could make the base 1T and my daughter would fill it.


----------



## SuperMatt

I saw the iPhone SE still has a fingerprint reader. It must be quite a bit cheaper than the tech needed for Face ID, which lets them keep the entry level price down.


----------



## Eric

SuperMatt said:


> I saw the iPhone SE still has a fingerprint reader. It must be quite a bit cheaper than the tech needed for Face ID, which lets them keep the entry level price down.



Not that I don't dig Face ID but would love to have the option for Touch ID brought back in the newer pro models, it was more convenient in many ways.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Well RIP 27” iMac.  It’s gone from Apple’s website. Looks like the Mac Studio was the right purchase for me.


----------



## Eric

Runs For Fun said:


> Well RIP 27” iMac.  It’s gone from Apple’s website. Looks like the Mac Studio was the right purchase for me.



That's what I'm still rocking as my main office system. It's slower than mud when I run all my Adobe photo apps but it's been good to me all these years, I added some extra memory last year and it's helped quite a bit.


----------



## MEJHarrison

Runs For Fun said:


> Well RIP 27” iMac.  It’s gone from Apple’s website. Looks like the Mac Studio was the right purchase for me.




I'm just getting caught up with all the day's news.  That sucks.  I really like my iMac.  Now I have to figure out plan B.  The new monitor looks great.  But $1,600?  Hmm...  I"ll have to think about that one.  I'll probably end up with the new Apple Monitor and a Mac mini.  But I'll need to do some research first.


----------



## lizkat

Runs For Fun said:


> Well RIP wallet. Ordered a base model M1 Ultra and base model Studio Display




Sweet.

And then switching to the newly Apple-recommended five basic food groups,  are we?

(that would be Rice, not too many Beans, Coffee / Tea, Milk and Chocolate).


----------



## Roller

Couldn't resist. I just ordered the base ultra w a 2TB SD and the monitor with the height adjustable stand. Delivers mid-end April. I was going to go with a cheaper third-party monitor, but I've never been disappointed with Apple displays.


----------



## Cmaier

Roller said:


> Couldn't resist. I just ordered the base ultra w a 2TB SD and the monitor with the height adjustable stand. Delivers mid-end April. I was going to go with a cheaper third-party monitor, but I've never been disappointed with Apple displays.




The height-adjustable stand looks neat. But for $400 I can buy a lot of reams of paper (which is what i have been using for years to height-adjust my monitor)


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> But for $400 I can buy a lot of reams of paper



Do they still make that stuff?


----------



## Runs For Fun

lizkat said:


> Sweet.
> 
> And then switching to the newly Apple-recommended five basic food groups,  are we?
> 
> (that would be Rice, not too many Beans, Coffee / Tea, Milk and Chocolate).



Yep might be living on rice and beans for a while  


Cmaier said:


> The height-adjustable stand looks neat. But for $400 I can buy a lot of reams of paper (which is what i have been using for years to height-adjust my monitor)



I was tempted to get that stand but I don’t think I’ll need the height adjustment. I still need an enclosure for all my disks so I’ll put that $400 towards an OWC Thunderbay.


----------



## Clix Pix

I'm really interested in the new Mac Studio machine, which I think (and hope) would easily hook right up to my current 4K Thunderbolt 3 external display and would make more sense as a desktop than my current 2018 MBP acting as one.   I'm also pleased that Apple is bringing back the Magic keyboard and Magic Mouse in black, too, as one of my mice has pretty much had it and needs to be replaced anyway and I really didn't want to press an old white one into service -- would ruin the visuals, y'know?  

Before today I had already sorta/kinda been contemplating one of the new M1 16" MBPs to replace my current 2018 MBP desktop replacement, but I think that for quite a few reasons the new Mac Studio would be a much better fit with more features and ports at somewhere around the same price....  Unfortunately right at the moment I have to figure out the best way of handling an unexpected  "special assessment" from my condominium association before I go making any other fairly expensive financial expenditures.   Plenty of time here, the new machines aren't going to be going anywhere....


----------



## lizkat

I'm in the market for a newer iPad, and so that Air with the M1 sure looks good to me.


----------



## Herdfan

Eric said:


> That's what I'm still rocking as my main office system. It's slower than mud when I run all my Adobe photo apps but it's been good to me all these years, I added some extra memory last year and it's helped quite a bit.




What year?

I am running a Late '15.  It is still doing fine, but getting to that age............

I want an iMac Pro, not because I need the power, but like the color.

But there are a few 27" iMac's on the refurbished site and a couple with the Nano-glass.  May have to pull the trigger.


----------



## Eric

Herdfan said:


> What year?
> 
> I am running a Late '15.  It is still doing fine, but getting to that age............
> 
> I want an iMac Pro, not because I need the power, but like the color.
> 
> But there are a few 27" iMac's on the refurbished site and a couple with the Nano-glass.  May have to pull the trigger.



Exact same model, late 2015.


----------



## Eric

Just caught this on Reddit, Apple is nothing if not shameless.

Apple's pricey new monitor comes with a free 1-meter cable. A 1.8-meter cable will cost you $129.​








						Apple's pricey new monitor comes with a free 1-meter cable. A 1.8-meter cable will cost you $129.
					

Apple started selling the Thunderbolt 4 Pro Cable, with versions costing $129 and $159, after unveiling new products at an event Tuesday.




					www.businessinsider.com


----------



## Cmaier

Eric said:


> Just caught this on Reddit, Apple is nothing if not shameless.
> 
> Apple's pricey new monitor comes with a free 1-meter cable. A 1.8-meter cable will cost you $129.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple's pricey new monitor comes with a free 1-meter cable. A 1.8-meter cable will cost you $129.
> 
> 
> Apple started selling the Thunderbolt 4 Pro Cable, with versions costing $129 and $159, after unveiling new products at an event Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com




Looks to me like an equivalent third-party cable (braided, full power and data specs) costs around $90-$100, so not sure this is much of a gouge.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Cmaier said:


> Looks to me like an equivalent third-party cable (braided, full power and data specs) costs around $90-$100, so not sure this is much of a gouge.



Yeah just saw people outraged over this but not understanding that a full spec TB cable is pretty pricey to begin with.


----------



## lizkat

Runs For Fun said:


> Yeah just saw people outraged over this but not understanding that a full spec TB cable is pretty pricey to begin with.




Yeah but Apple should understand that the reaction is based on a couple decades of shelling out $29 a pop for this that and the other iOS device-related cable with vastly simpler specs and costs...   no one's going to thank them for not charging $179 for this more complex one.


----------



## B01L

Cmaier said:


> The height-adjustable stand looks neat. But for $400 I can buy a lot of reams of paper (which is what i have been using for years to height-adjust my monitor)




Apple sells a 3.7" riser, starting at $1999...


----------



## Andropov

Cmaier said:


> The height-adjustable stand looks neat. But for $400 I can buy a lot of reams of paper (which is what i have been using for years to height-adjust my monitor)




Heh. My copy of _Compilers: Principles, Techniques and Tools_ has the perfect thickness to raise my LG UltraFine so I can snugly fit my 13" MacBook Pro with the screen open under it. You can buy 5 of them with $400 too.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> Heh. My copy of _Compilers: Principles, Techniques and Tools_ has the perfect thickness to raise my LG UltraFine so I can snugly fit my 13" MacBook Pro with the screen open under it. You can buy 5 of them with $400 too.
> 
> View attachment 12344



Nice thing about paper reams, though, is that it’s height-adjustable .  At AMD I needed 2.5 reams, but at Sun I needed 1.25


----------



## jbailey

Cmaier said:


> Nice thing about paper reams, though, is that it’s height-adjustable .  At AMD I needed 2.5 reams, but at Sun I needed 1.25



I just bought a VESA arm. It solved all my monitor height issues. It was this one. Only the price seems to have gone up, I paid $35.70 and now they want $41.80.


----------



## Cmaier

Andropov said:


> Heh. My copy of _Compilers: Principles, Techniques and Tools_ has the perfect thickness to raise my LG UltraFine so I can snugly fit my 13" MacBook Pro with the screen open under it. You can buy 5 of them with $400 too.




You inspired me to rearrange my monitors vertically.


----------



## Andropov

Cmaier said:


> Nice thing about paper reams, though, is that it’s height-adjustable .  At AMD I needed 2.5 reams, but at Sun I needed 1.25





Cmaier said:


> You inspired me to rearrange my monitors vertically.




Ha! You're right that paper reams are better at fine-tuning height. I can't fit the 16" MBP under my screen because no book in my shelf is big enough


----------



## Cmaier

And people say us electrical engineers can't do mechanical engineering ...



Andropov said:


> Ha! You're right that paper reams are better at fine-tuning height. I can't fit the 16" MBP under my screen because no book in my shelf is big enough


----------



## Herdfan

So how hard is it to use a Late 2015 iMac as a monitor for a Studio?


----------



## mr_roboto

Herdfan said:


> So how hard is it to use a Late 2015 iMac as a monitor for a Studio?



Extremely. Apple briefly had an iMac feature called Target Display Mode which let an iMac act as a DisplayPort or Thunderbolt monitor, but it went away in 2015 with the introduction of Retina.  Unless you consider Screen Sharing an acceptable way to use it as a monitor (you probably won't if you try it), you're out of luck.


----------



## Renzatic

DT said:


> Great, now my computer __and__ my monitor can crash independently ...




Welcome to the future.


----------



## DT

Renzatic said:


> Welcome to the future.




Yes, this technological utopia is amazing ... now pardon me, while I go reboot my TV, refrigerator and car ...


----------



## Cmaier

DT said:


> Yes, this technological utopia is amazing ... now pardon me, while I go reboot my TV, refrigerator and car ...



I've had to reboot my car many times.  Friggen Elon.


----------



## lizkat

MEJHarrison said:


> I've never understood introducing new colors so late in the cycle.  But they keep doing it, so they must sell.




I dunno if it's the color so much as people just waiting to see how the model in question is received by the early adopters.   I'm glad they often have the Product(Red) color around to roll out later on because I'm not always a fan of some of their other color options.

If I were to go for a phone this time I'd probably go for that red SE.  I'd keep my sunflower yellow XR for WiFi use as sidekick to my laptop, bc of my aging eyes,  but the smaller form factor on phones was always my preference for walkabout usage or when traveling,  and the price and the upgrade on the SE are pretty nice.

But my XR works fine and so I'm definitely going for the new iPad Air to replace my old 10.9" iPad Pro.


----------



## Herdfan

mr_roboto said:


> Extremely. Apple briefly had an iMac feature called Target Display Mode which let an iMac act as a DisplayPort or Thunderbolt monitor, but it went away in 2015 with the introduction of Retina.  Unless you consider Screen Sharing an acceptable way to use it as a monitor (you probably won't if you try it), you're out of luck.




Thanks.  I remembered screen sharing on my 2011 iMac, but haven't heard it mentioned lately.

I guess they don't want people using old iMacs as screens vs buying their screen.

Thanks.


----------



## Yoused

Cmaier said:


> I've had to reboot my car many times. Friggen Elon.



Is it a car that crashes while parked?


----------



## DT

Cmaier said:


> I've had to reboot my car many times.  Friggen Elon.




I had to one time in the first 30 days after my first post-delivery update (non-responsive wheel buttons).  Going on 1 year, have not had to reboot since.


----------



## Runs For Fun

DT said:


> Great, now my computer __and__ my monitor can crash independently ...



I heard someone found a string in a plist that said  something like “your monitor has been restarted due to a software error”


----------



## lizkat

Runs For Fun said:


> I heard someone found a string in a plist that said  something like “your monitor has been restarted due to a software error”




Hell I see that line flash through my brain every morning while trying to execute the module for a pour-over coffee.


----------



## Runs For Fun

Officially dead








						Apple’s 27-inch iMac disappears from its store with no fanfare or replacement
					

Rumors suggest a big Apple Silicon iMac is coming, but it's not here yet.




					arstechnica.com
				






> Update: Apple confirmed to Ars that the 27-inch iMac has reached end of life.


----------



## Yoused

I have my doubts about a 27" iMac. Prior to AS, there was a 21.5" and a 27"; now we have the 24", which neatly splits the difference. The Studio+Studio-display fills that 27" iMac space very nicely, provides modularity (simplifies Apple's product line), and the box fits neatly under the display _with forward-facing USB ports/SD reader_. I find it difficult to imagine how one might want the bigger iMac when it is all right here, and _more_ ergonomic.


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> I have my doubts about a 27" iMac. Prior to AS, there was a 21.5" and a 27"; now we have the 24", which neatly splits the difference. The Studio+Studio-display fills that 27" iMac space very nicely, provides modularity (simplifies Apple's product line), and the box fits neatly under the display _with forward-facing USB ports/SD reader_. I find it difficult to imagine how one might want the bigger iMac when it is all right here, and _more_ ergonomic.



I *highly *doubt rumors that come out the day after an Apple event, by people that predicted something that failed to appear during the event. It’s like “well the thing I predicted didn’t appear because……. it’s coming next year!” It’s saving face. They get something from posting the rumors, and unless they can explain how they got it wrong, they will be ignored next time.


----------



## Jorbanead

Runs For Fun said:


> Officially dead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple’s 27-inch iMac disappears from its store with no fanfare or replacement
> 
> 
> Rumors suggest a big Apple Silicon iMac is coming, but it's not here yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arstechnica.com



I’ve always suspected they’re just going to use the iMac Pro name for the larger iMac. My guess is they originally had planned to announce it at the March event so they planned to discontinue the normal 27” production, but the pro got delayed.


----------



## Jorbanead

Runs For Fun said:


> Officially dead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple’s 27-inch iMac disappears from its store with no fanfare or replacement
> 
> 
> Rumors suggest a big Apple Silicon iMac is coming, but it's not here yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arstechnica.com



I’ve always suspected that they were just going to call the larger iMac the iMac Pro. My theory is that they originally had planned to announce an iMac Pro in March, and at the same time planned to stop all 27” Intel iMac Production. When the pro got delayed due to major display and chip shortages, they had already stopped production on the Intel iMac so they were forced to just discontinue it without a replacement.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Runs For Fun said:


> Officially dead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apple’s 27-inch iMac disappears from its store with no fanfare or replacement
> 
> 
> Rumors suggest a big Apple Silicon iMac is coming, but it's not here yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arstechnica.com



Great.

I wanted an iMac for years, but whenever I was ready to pull the trigger there was always some transition or something supposedly about to happen.  When the M1 came around I was ready again to get an iMac and instead we got 24 inch pastel colored iPads on a stand.  All I wanted was a 27 inch iMac, even better if it was Space Gray, and still have the ability to add my own memory.  Now my options are a desktop ( I say iPad not because it's touch, but watch any unboxing & notice how thin it is when taken out of the box ) iPad, an older model, or buying a monitor only for the same price.

It seems the lines for what Apple considers desktop pro machines is even clearly separated using price.  I don't need top of the line pro stats, but I liked the "future proofing" of the base "pro" models.  Now even the base price for such a machine is a few grand.  For someone like myself it's just Apple telling me to go look at other monitor makers, and get used to using my Macbook Pro as a desktop as well.


----------



## SuperMatt

JayMysteri0 said:


> Great.
> 
> I wanted an iMac for years, but whenever I was ready to pull the trigger there was always some transition or something supposedly about to happen.  When the M1 came around I was ready again to get an iMac and instead we got 24 inch pastel colored iPads on a stand.  All I wanted was a 27 inch iMac, even better if it was Space Gray, and still have the ability to add my own memory.  Now my options are a desktop ( I say iPad not because it's touch, but watch any unboxing & notice how thin it is when taken out of the box ) iPad, an older model, or buying a monitor only for the same price.
> 
> It seems the lines for what Apple considers desktop pro machines is even clearly separated using price.  I don't need top of the line pro stats, but I liked the "future proofing" of the base "pro" models.  Now even the base price for such a machine is a few grand.  For someone like myself it's just Apple telling me to go look at other monitor makers, and get used to using my Macbook Pro as a desktop as well.



If you already have a monitor or want to go with another monitor, the base $1999 Mac Studio is equal to or better than the $3500 MacBook Pro in performance... that’s a pretty decent savings if you don’t need portability, and have an old monitor or get an inexpensive 3rd-party monitor. And if you add in the monitor, you’re pretty much right at the MBP price.


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> If you already have a monitor or want to go with another monitor, the base $1999 Mac Studio is equal to or better than the $3500 MacBook Pro in performance... that’s a pretty decent savings if you don’t need portability, and have an old monitor or get an inexpensive 3rd-party monitor. And if you add in the monitor, you’re pretty much right at the MBP price.



I was looking at the new monitor & mac studio as a 1 to 1 to the 27 inch iMac.

I'd like to keep my MBP as portable only, the iMac as desktop, two separate things.  I basically wanted a nice iMac to replace the Mac Mini I am typing on now.  Moving the monitor to another room to use with MBP should I ever begin docking it.

To replace this Mac Mini with such an option the cost of the monitor & mac studio balloons to the price of your $3K MBP.  That's more than I'd want to spend.  Which means I should just suck it up and think about using the MBP as a desktop when this Mini becomes too slow.

I was just shooting for personal comfort with a model that Apple used to support.  Now my options are just accepting an iMac in a color that  me, or just waiting some more for an iMac I'll never seem to buy.


----------



## JayMysteri0

SuperMatt said:


> If you already have a monitor or want to go with another monitor, the base $1999 Mac Studio is equal to or better than the $3500 MacBook Pro in performance... that’s a pretty decent savings if you don’t need portability, and have an old monitor or get an inexpensive 3rd-party monitor. And if you add in the monitor, you’re pretty much right at the MBP price.



To further my unnecessary whining, I could get a refurb 24 iMac with 16GB of memory & a whopping 256GB SSD for the price of the monitor.

In Orange.








_Been looking at the Dell Ultrasharp monitors that are so recommended.  If I get one, will be annoyed I didn't get one at XMas time like considered when they were on sale, and blowing out of Dells' warehouses at a record clip._


----------



## MEJHarrison

JayMysteri0 said:


> Great.
> 
> I wanted an iMac for years, but whenever I was ready to pull the trigger there was always some transition or something supposedly about to happen.  When the M1 came around I was ready again to get an iMac and instead we got 24 inch pastel colored iPads on a stand.  All I wanted was a 27 inch iMac, even better if it was Space Gray, and still have the ability to add my own memory.  Now my options are a desktop ( I say iPad not because it's touch, but watch any unboxing & notice how thin it is when taken out of the box ) iPad, an older model, or buying a monitor only for the same price.
> 
> It seems the lines for what Apple considers desktop pro machines is even clearly separated using price.  I don't need top of the line pro stats, but I liked the "future proofing" of the base "pro" models.  Now even the base price for such a machine is a few grand.  For someone like myself it's just Apple telling me to go look at other monitor makers, and get used to using my Macbook Pro as a desktop as well.




I'm in the same boat as you.  I was hoping for a 27" iMac and was hoping that it would have a similar price to the iMac I got years ago.  That doesn't look like it's going to happen now.  So if I want to replace what I have with something comparable, I'd need to start with the new 27" screen.

I'd love to get the new Studio, but I just can't justify it.  While I'm working at home full time at this point, I'm just a web developer.  I don't _*need*_ a ton of power.  Not to mention, I'm just using my Mac to log into my Windows machine at work.  So the heavy lifting is getting done by hardware down the road or at AWS, not what's on my desk.  I don't need the Studio to watch Netflix, browse this site or do light editing on photos (light as in cropping or rotating photos I've shot).  One or twice a year I might play with iMovie or tinker with Xcode.  That's about the toughest things I do.  Honestly, as much as I'd like the bigger machine, I'm not sure it would be put to good use.  And thinking back to last year, seeing how good the base M1 is on it's own, I'm 99% sure the simple Mac mini would get the job done.

So I'd be looking at a $1,600 monitor, another $1,300 to get the Mac mini configured with the same specs as what it would be replacing.  And as if that wasn't bad enough, it's another $350 to get the extended keyboard and trackpad to go with that.  I was hoping to spend around $2,000-$2,500.  Now I'm looking at $3,250.  That's what it would take to put together my own 27" "iMac" with Apple parts to replace the iMac I have today.  That's quite a bit more than I was mentally prepared to part with.  That's putting it in the same category as a $30 cheeseburger.  Sure it might be an amazing cheeseburger, but for $30?  It's not that I can't put together $30.  It's that I could get 5 so-so cheeseburgers or 2-3 really good cheeseburgers for that kind of money.

One thing I'm considering is, do I need the new MacBook I picked up in February of 2020?  If I was still going to work, a laptop is a nice thing to have.  Now my office is at home and it just sits on the desk next to my iMac.  It's in perfect condition.  If I can manage to part with that, it could take a very nice bite out of that $3,250.  And it would free up some desk space as well.  Although I just checked and Apple would give me $650, so it might take a small bite out of the cost.


----------



## SuperMatt

MEJHarrison said:


> I'm in the same boat as you.  I was hoping for a 27" iMac and was hoping that it would have a similar price to the iMac I got years ago.  That doesn't look like it's going to happen now.  So if I want to replace what I have with something comparable, I'd need to start with the new 27" screen.
> 
> I'd love to get the new Studio, but I just can't justify it.  While I'm working at home full time at this point, I'm just a web developer.  I don't _*need*_ a ton of power.  Not to mention, I'm just using my Mac to log into my Windows machine at work.  So the heavy lifting is getting done by hardware down the road or at AWS, not what's on my desk.  I don't need the Studio to watch Netflix, browse this site or do light editing on photos (light as in cropping or rotating photos I've shot).  One or twice a year I might play with iMovie or tinker with Xcode.  That's about the toughest things I do.  Honestly, as much as I'd like the bigger machine, I'm not sure it would be put to good use.  And thinking back to last year, seeing how good the base M1 is on it's own, I'm 99% sure the simple Mac mini would get the job done.
> 
> So I'd be looking at a $1,600 monitor, another $1,300 to get the Mac mini configured with the same specs as what it would be replacing.  And as if that wasn't bad enough, it's another $350 to get the extended keyboard and trackpad to go with that.  I was hoping to spend around $2,000-$2,500.  Now I'm looking at $3,250.  That's what it would take to put together my own 27" "iMac" with Apple parts to replace the iMac I have today.  That's quite a bit more than I was mentally prepared to part with.  That's putting it in the same category as a $30 cheeseburger.  Sure it might be an amazing cheeseburger, but for $30?  It's not that I can't put together $30.  It's that I could get 5 so-so cheeseburgers or 2-3 really good cheeseburgers for that kind of money.
> 
> One thing I'm considering is, do I need the new MacBook I picked up in February of 2020?  If I was still going to work, a laptop is a nice thing to have.  Now my office is at home and it just sits on the desk next to my iMac.  It's in perfect condition.  If I can manage to part with that, it could take a very nice bite out of that $3,250.  And it would free up some desk space as well.  Although I just checked and Apple would give me $650, so it might take a small bite out of the cost.



The screen on the 24” iMac is pretty nice; set a few up for some people and was pretty impressed. Most people buy the silver one.


----------



## JayMysteri0

MEJHarrison said:


> One thing I'm considering is, do I need the new MacBook I picked up in February of 2020?  If I was still going to work, a laptop is a nice thing to have.  Now my office is at home and it just sits on the desk next to my iMac.  It's in perfect condition.  If I can manage to part with that, it could take a very nice bite out of that $3,250.  And it would free up some desk space as well.  Although I just checked and Apple would give me $650, so it might take a small bite out of the cost.



That last one is a tough one.

As @SuperMatt suggested, if you don't have a hang up like myself with it's colors, the 24in iMac maybe a choice.

Trading in your older iMac for any of the refurbed ones maybe an option, and keep the 2020 MB for portability in case you do have to return to work.  Otherwise if you are sure you aren't going back, that MB takes $650 off of a $1600 24in iMac with 16GB of memory & that 256SSD I mentioned.  Your old iMac would bring that even further down.

Perhaps?


----------



## MEJHarrison

JayMysteri0 said:


> That last one is a tough one.
> 
> As @SuperMatt suggested, if you don't have a hang up like myself with it's colors, the 24in iMac maybe a choice.




That thought has crossed my mind.  But I'd have a really hard time going from 27" to 24". And since I have dual monitors, then I'd need to replace that too.  I'm not saying I couldn't have mismatched monitors, just that it would bug me every second of every day.   

As for trading the iMac, I was thinking of passing it down to my son or to my mother.


----------



## JayMysteri0

And noooooowww they are saying...



> Kuo: 2023 Mac Mini to Retain Same Design as Current Model
> 
> 
> Apple's next-generation Mac mini will likely feature the same design as the current model, according to reputable analyst Ming-Chi Kuo.    In a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.macrumors.com





> In a brief tweet, Kuo said that the refreshed ‌Mac mini‌ is likely to retain the same form factor as the current model, which is an aluminum unibody design that Apple has used for every new ‌Mac mini‌ since 2010. Earlier this week, Kuo said that the new ‌Mac mini‌ will not launch until 2023.
> 
> Kuo's claim runs contrary to a rumor from leaker Jon Prosser, who last year said that Apple was working on a complete redesign for the small desktop computer, moving to a smaller chassis with a "plexiglass-like" top.
> 
> Apple has been believed to be working on a new Mac mini for some time. It updated the entry-level ‌Mac mini‌ with the M1 chip in November 2020, but the high-end offering is still the Space Gray model with an Intel processor from 2018. The potential of replacing this older high-end model with an Apple silicon machine was previously at the center of rumors related to new Mac minis, but now it looks like both the entry-level and the high-end model may be refreshed simultaneously.
> 
> _9to5Mac_ recently said that Apple originally "had plans" to introduce high-end versions of the ‌Mac mini‌ with M1 Pro and M1 Max chips, but these plans were "probably scrapped" in favor of the Mac Studio. Now, Apple is believed to be working on two new ‌Mac mini‌ models, including one with the M2 chip and a higher-end model with the ‌M2‌ Pro chip.




That one Apple product you're waiting for is always just about to come out, until it doesn't, then it's coming next year.  

I can't care anymore.


----------



## Yoused

JayMysteri0 said:


> And noooooowww they are saying...




I would not be inclined to trust what you read on _that_ site. A lot of bullshitters there, so I am told (rumor has it they are refining the art of BS over there the way Apple is refining the art of ARM).


----------



## SuperMatt

Yoused said:


> I would not be inclined to trust what you read on _that_ site. A lot of bullshitters there, so I am told (rumor has it they are refining the art of BS over there the way Apple is refining the art of ARM).



I used to get all my Apple rumors here, but it doesn’t get updated anymore…









						Crazy Apple Rumors Site
					

Satirizing the Apple world since... OMG it's been THAT long?



					crazyapplerumors.com


----------



## Cmaier

SuperMatt said:


> I used to get all my Apple rumors here, but it doesn’t get updated anymore…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy Apple Rumors Site
> 
> 
> Satirizing the Apple world since... OMG it's been THAT long?
> 
> 
> 
> crazyapplerumors.com




Here‘s a rumor from me:

The chip for Mac Pro will be based on M2, not M1.

I have spoken.


----------



## Yoused

My wild rumor is that by M3, Apple will have developed a modular packaging design that will allow them to improve yields and flexibiliy by welding multiple chips together to form the SoC in a given package. Their costs will go down, which means that retail prices will remain stable.


----------



## Cmaier

Yoused said:


> My wild rumor is that by M3, Apple will have developed a modular packaging design that will allow them to improve yields and flexibiliy by welding multiple chips together to form the SoC in a given package. Their costs will go down, which means that retail prices will remain stable.




My 2nd wild rumor: M2 => ray tracing in GPU.


----------



## JayMysteri0

Yoused said:


> I would not be inclined to trust what you read on _that_ site. A lot of bullshitters there, so I am told (rumor has it they are refining the art of BS over there the way Apple is refining the art of ARM).



My point rumor or not.  Is that it seems nowadays with Apple's secrecy creating a rumor mill, the Apple product you want but didn't get will always be on the way next year.  Looking for or planning for that certain Apple product nowadays if it isn't a phone, can seem like a fool's game.


----------



## jbailey

MEJHarrison said:


> I'd love to get the new Studio, but I just can't justify it. While I'm working at home full time at this point, I'm just a web developer. I don't _*need*_ a ton of power.



I’m currently using a M1 MacBook Air to do node.js development. Working from home and targeting my 2013 Mac Pro with a CentOS7 VM. Don’t ask— current client is adverse to any change apparently. Node runs fine on the MBA so I just push the code across the wire for testing. I can’t conceive of needing a Mac Studio or even an M1 Pro or Max for what I’m working on. I want a M1 Ultra Mac Studio but there is no way that I need one for what I’m working on.


----------



## Roller

I’m having second thoughts about getting a Studio Display to go along with my Mac Studio. But there aren’t many monitors with 5K native resolution. The LG UltraFine isn’t to be found anywhere, though it may become available in a couple months. 

What would you suggest as a Studio Display alternative?


----------



## Colstan

Roller said:


> I’m having second thoughts about getting a Studio Display to go along with my Mac Studio. But there aren’t many monitors with 5K native resolution. The LG UltraFine isn’t to be found anywhere, though it may become available in a couple months.



I'm with you on that setiment. I had been considering the same combination, but am now rethinking that purchase.

I picked up an unopened 21.5-inch 4K UltraFine on Ebay last Summer, for half MSRP, expecting it to be a "stopgap" before Apple released a new consumer grade monitor. However, I was expecting Apple to use something better than the seven-year old panel that has been in the 27-inch iMac. I don't need the added size, I'm more concerned with "Retina" density and would have liked 120Hz and mini-LED, so I don't see a reason to do a lateral move with the Studio Display. Plus, I'd spend the extra for the nano-texture process, adding additional cost. For me, it just doesn't make logical sense to switch, since my LG is working fine without issue.


Roller said:


> What would you suggest as a Studio Display alternative?



That's the conundrum, there isn't a good answer to that. If you're like me and want ~219ppi then there's not much to choose from. There's the discontinued 21.5-inch UltraFine, the larger 27-inch model, and the Studio Display. Everything else is primarily targeted toward the PC market. You could try to get a 4K UltraFine off of Ebay like I did. (It's very hard, but not impossible to get a new boxed unit.) LG says that they haven't canceled the 27-inch UltraFine and plan on continuing sales once component shortages ease. The price for the LG is almost as much as the Studio Display, so I'm not sure it's worth saving a bit by going with the LG.

Hence, my advice is to do the same thing I am currently planning: wait until after WWDC. Display analyst Ross Young is still predicting that Apple will launch a device using a 27-inch mini-LED in the coming months, and he states that multiple sources in the supply chain have confirmed this. Assuming he is correct, there is no telling if it is for an iMac, a replacement for the current XDR, or something else that may fill a different part of the product line. Given that it is mini-LED, it will certainly cost more than the Studio Display, but that's probably the most that we can surmise, at this time.

So, unless you need that Studio Display to go with a Mac Studio immediately, I'd wait another three months, if possible, just to keep your options open.


----------



## SuperMatt

Colstan said:


> I'm with you on that setiment. I had been considering the same combination, but am now rethinking that purchase.
> 
> I picked up an unopened 21.5-inch 4K UltraFine on Ebay last Summer, for half MSRP, expecting it to be a "stopgap" before Apple released a new consumer grade monitor. However, I was expecting Apple to use something better than the seven-year old panel that has been in the 27-inch iMac. I don't need the added size, I'm more concerned with "Retina" density and would have liked 120Hz and mini-LED, so I don't see a reason to do a lateral move with the Studio Display. Plus, I'd spend the extra for the nano-texture process, adding additional cost. For me, it just doesn't make logical sense to switch, since my LG is working fine without issue.
> 
> That's the conundrum, there isn't a good answer to that. If you're like me and want ~219ppi then there's not much to choose from. There's the discontinued 21.5-inch UltraFine, the larger 27-inch model, and the Studio Display. Everything else is primarily targeted toward the PC market. You could try to get a 4K UltraFine off of Ebay like I did. (It's very hard, but not impossible to get a new boxed unit.) LG says that they haven't canceled the 27-inch UltraFine and plan on continuing sales once component shortages ease. The price for the LG is almost as much as the Studio Display, so I'm not sure it's worth saving a bit by going with the LG.
> 
> Hence, my advice is to do the same thing I am currently planning: wait until after WWDC. Display analyst Ross Young is still predicting that Apple will launch a device using a 27-inch mini-LED in the coming months, and he states that multiple sources in the supply chain have confirmed this. Assuming he is correct, there is no telling if it is for an iMac, a replacement for the current XDR, or something else that may fill a different part of the product line. Given that it is mini-LED, it will certainly cost more than the Studio Display, but that's probably the most that we can surmise, at this time.
> 
> So, unless you need that Studio Display to go with a Mac Studio immediately, I'd wait another three months, if possible, just to keep your options open.



I’m somewhat surprised that the market for high-DPI desktop displays is so barren.


----------



## jbailey

Apple is still selling the 24" 4K LG Ultrafine.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUA2VC/A/lg-ultrafine-4k-display

I've been using this much cheaper 24" LG 4K monitor. Not great if you are worried about color accuracy or high brightness but it meets my needs as a software developer with very crisp text. The included stand was awful so I bought a cheap VESA mount arm. It looks some fiddling to get the contrast and brightness right but all in all, for a $300 4K display, I can't complain. Unfortunately, it looks like it is out of stock again. I saw it in stock a few weeks ago.


----------



## MEJHarrison

Roller said:


> I’m having second thoughts about getting a Studio Display to go along with my Mac Studio. But there aren’t many monitors with 5K native resolution. The LG UltraFine isn’t to be found anywhere, though it may become available in a couple months.




I'm in the same boat.  I'd like to replace my 27" iMac.  But at this point, I also don't want to go backwards.  I don't want less than 5K or less than 27".  That doesn't leave many options at all.  And it leaves 0 options for replacing my iMac with a comparable system that's in the same price range as my old iMac.

I'm waiting to see what WWDC brings at this point. But regardless of what's coming, I don't suspect there's going to be a new, cheaper option.


----------



## B01L

MEJHarrison said:


> I'm waiting to see what WWDC brings at this point. But regardless of what's coming, I don't suspect there's going to be a new, cheaper option.




Only hope of a cheaper monitor might be a 24" 4.5K display from Apple...?


----------



## Roller

MEJHarrison said:


> I'm in the same boat.  I'd like to replace my 27" iMac.  But at this point, I also don't want to go backwards.  I don't want less than 5K or less than 27".  That doesn't leave many options at all.  And it leaves 0 options for replacing my iMac with a comparable system that's in the same price range as my old iMac.
> 
> I'm waiting to see what WWDC brings at this point. But regardless of what's coming, I don't suspect there's going to be a new, cheaper option.



It’s unfortunate that Apple did away with  target display mode, or I would have kept my iMac to use with my Mac Studio. It’ll arrive in ~4 weeks, and I need a monitor for it. The Studio Display will be OK, though I would have preferred features like HDR and ProMotion or a less expensive third party alternative. I was surprised that there were no good options when I looked today.


----------



## Roller

Colstan said:


> I'm with you on that setiment. I had been considering the same combination, but am now rethinking that purchase.
> 
> I picked up an unopened 21.5-inch 4K UltraFine on Ebay last Summer, for half MSRP, expecting it to be a "stopgap" before Apple released a new consumer grade monitor. However, I was expecting Apple to use something better than the seven-year old panel that has been in the 27-inch iMac. I don't need the added size, I'm more concerned with "Retina" density and would have liked 120Hz and mini-LED, so I don't see a reason to do a lateral move with the Studio Display. Plus, I'd spend the extra for the nano-texture process, adding additional cost. For me, it just doesn't make logical sense to switch, since my LG is working fine without issue.
> 
> That's the conundrum, there isn't a good answer to that. If you're like me and want ~219ppi then there's not much to choose from. There's the discontinued 21.5-inch UltraFine, the larger 27-inch model, and the Studio Display. Everything else is primarily targeted toward the PC market. You could try to get a 4K UltraFine off of Ebay like I did. (It's very hard, but not impossible to get a new boxed unit.) LG says that they haven't canceled the 27-inch UltraFine and plan on continuing sales once component shortages ease. The price for the LG is almost as much as the Studio Display, so I'm not sure it's worth saving a bit by going with the LG.
> 
> Hence, my advice is to do the same thing I am currently planning: wait until after WWDC. Display analyst Ross Young is still predicting that Apple will launch a device using a 27-inch mini-LED in the coming months, and he states that multiple sources in the supply chain have confirmed this. Assuming he is correct, there is no telling if it is for an iMac, a replacement for the current XDR, or something else that may fill a different part of the product line. Given that it is mini-LED, it will certainly cost more than the Studio Display, but that's probably the most that we can surmise, at this time.
> 
> So, unless you need that Studio Display to go with a Mac Studio immediately, I'd wait another three months, if possible, just to keep your options open.



Your key point is that if Apple does release a mini-LED 27” stand-alone monitor, it’ll be even pricier than the Studio Display. That’s more than I’m willing to pay. There are a ton of 4K monitors for less than $1000, but I don’t know how well they’d work with the Mac Studio.


----------



## Colstan

Roller said:


> Your key point is that if Apple does release a mini-LED 27” stand-alone monitor, it’ll be even pricier than the Studio Display. That’s more than I’m willing to pay. There are a ton of 4K monitors for less than $1000, but I don’t know how well they’d work with the Mac Studio.



My main point is that it couldn't hurt to wait until WWDC is over. We had hints about the Mac Studio for a while, but it only crystalized a day or two before the actual announcement. There's no harm in keeping your options open for a little longer, unless it's vital that you make the purchase sooner.

As far as using other 4K displays, that's a personal preference. I was just involved in a discussion over at the other place where some folks are fine using standard resolution 1440p displays, while others (such as myself) are very much in the camp of getting the highest ppi monitor as possible.

And yes, it's unfortunate that we have so little choice in that way. I think we will look back at the Intel era as an oddball moment in the history of the Mac. During the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s, the Mac was its own little island. Apple's foray into x86 land for a decade and half gave us some measure of compatibility with PC hardware and software that Mac users didn't used to have. Now, it looks like the Mac is sailing back to its own fruity tropical island, replete with proprietary parts. Whether that is good, bad, or somewhere in between is a matter of perspective and priorities.


----------



## Roller

Colstan said:


> My main point is that it couldn't hurt to wait until WWDC is over. We had hints about the Mac Studio for a while, but it only crystalized a day or two before the actual announcement. There's no harm in keeping your options open for a little longer, unless it's vital that you make the purchase sooner.
> 
> As far as using other 4K displays, that's a personal preference. I was just involved in a discussion over at the other place where some folks are fine using standard resolution 1440p displays, while others (such as myself) are very much in the camp of getting the highest ppi monitor as possible.
> 
> And yes, it's unfortunate that we have so little choice in that way. I think we will look back at the Intel era as an oddball moment in the history of the Mac. During the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s, the Mac was its own little island. Apple's foray into x86 land for a decade and half gave us some measure of compatibility with PC hardware and software that Mac users didn't used to have. Now, it looks like the Mac is sailing back to its own fruity tropical island, replete with proprietary parts. Whether that is good, bad, or somewhere in between is a matter of perspective and priorities.



I'd wait and see, but I'm trading in my iMac when the Studio arrives, and I doubt whether Apple would wait a few months for me to send it to them. I also doubt that Apple will offer a less expensive alternative to the Studio Display. So I'm trying to find a good 4K monitor with high PPI while I can still cancel my order. There's a thread about monitors on that other forum, but I haven't seen anything that would make me take the plunge.


----------



## Cmaier

Roller said:


> I'd wait and see, but I'm trading in my iMac when the Studio arrives, and I doubt whether Apple would wait a few months for me to send it to them. I also doubt that Apple will offer a less expensive alternative to the Studio Display. So I'm trying to find a good 4K monitor with high PPI while I can still cancel my order. There's a thread about monitors on that other forum, but I haven't seen anything that would make me take the plunge.



I‘d maybe go for something cheap, and replace it with a high PPI display when they become available? Otherwise really the only real choices are Apole or the LGs, it seems.


----------



## MEJHarrison

B01L said:


> Only hope of a cheaper monitor might be a 24" 4.5K display from Apple...?




But again, I've spent years on a 27" 5K.  To go back to either less than 27" or less than 5K, is going to be a very tough thing to accept.  Also, I'm a developer who now works from home full time.  All indications point to that becoming a permanent thing moving forward.  It's not just a computer, but the main tool I use to make a living now.

That might be a good solution for some.  But it's not really an acceptable solution for me.  Fortunately my iMac is fine at the moment, so I don't need to rush into a decision.


----------



## Herdfan

MEJHarrison said:


> I'm in the same boat.  I'd like to replace my 27" iMac.  But at this point, I also don't want to go backwards.  I don't want less than 5K or less than 27".  That doesn't leave many options at all.  And it leaves 0 options for replacing my iMac with a comparable system that's in the same price range as my old iMac.



Same boat here.

Might just do what I did last time and pick up a refurb from Apple.  You can get an August '20, 27" with i5/5K for under $1500.

My late '15 that I got refurb from Apple in the fall of '16 is still running fine, but for how long.

Would love an iMac Pro, but mainly that is for the color and not the performance.


----------



## Roller

Herdfan said:


> Same boat here.
> 
> Might just do what I did last time and pick up a refurb from Apple.  You can get an August '20, 27" with i5/5K for under $1500.
> 
> My late '15 that I got refurb from Apple in the fall of '16 is still running fine, but for how long.
> 
> Would love an iMac Pro, but mainly that is for the color and not the performance.



TBH, I was expecting an Apple silicon iMac to replace my 2017 model, though I would've been OK with a higher end Mac mini. But when I heard about the Mac Studio, I couldn't resist and rationalized my way into ordering one. I don't think I'm going to find a suitable non-Apple monitor though. All the 27" or 32" 4K displays are deficient in areas where I'm not willing to compromise. I've read the reviews about poor web cam performance, but I expect Apple to address that.


----------



## MEJHarrison

Roller said:


> But when I heard about the Mac Studio, I couldn't resist and rationalized my way into ordering one.




I'm certainly drooling over them, but honestly, I don't see a need for my use cases.  I do think a Mac mini is all I'd really need.  I'm waiting to see now if there's going to be a new M2 mini on the way this year.


----------



## Nycturne

SuperMatt said:


> I’m somewhat surprised that the market for high-DPI desktop displays is so barren.




I’m not.

Apple’s insistence on going for integer scaling vs resolution independence means they want higher density panels than pretty much everyone else. A 4K 27” display in Windows at 150% does look pretty good in the apps that can handle it properly, and games look quite nice with one. And when you can get a 4K 27” panel for a fraction of the cost of any 5K option or a 4K 120Hz panel for just over half the cost, Windows users aren’t really going to be lining up for a 5K panel. Especially since it wasn't until DP 1.4 that you could drive a 5K display with a single cable, and we're now at the point where DP 1.4 is common on displays you can buy and GPUs in the field can generally be assumed to support 1.4. Apple being a really early mover here, and a full-throated adopter on Thunderbolt 3 let them get here years before DisplayPort had caught up. Apple still needs to support tiled display in the Studio Display because of how many Macs are still on Alpine Ridge TB controllers vs Titan Ridge for example. 

Monitors today already use up as much bandwidth as they can get from DisplayPort 1.4 (with some starting to rely on DSC to squeeze into the bandwidth available, like the 4K 144Hz and 6K XDR displays). It's just it seems that on the Windows side, they spent the bandwidth on refresh rate while Apple spent it on resolution.


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## Deleted member 215

Which makes sense since a big Windows market is gaming, where refresh rate matters more than resolution.

I remember when "retina" displays first came out, most Windows laptops were still on crappy 1366x768 TN panels that paled in comparison.

But this is why is why all-in-ones have the advantage; you don't have to rely on the limits of DP. That's why I'd still like to see a 27" iMac...or a 24" iMac with mini-LED and ProMotion.


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## Nycturne

TBL said:


> I remember when "retina" displays first came out, most Windows laptops were still on crappy 1366x768 TN panels that paled in comparison.
> 
> But this is why is why all-in-ones have the advantage; you don't have to rely on the limits of DP. That's why I'd still like to see a 27" iMac...or a 24" iMac with mini-LED and ProMotion.




There is certainly an advantage to being able to guarantee how everything is connected.

That said, my fingers are crossed we might see some improvement in this space going forward. While I don’t think 6K @ 120Hz fits into DP1.4 even with DSC, and I’m not sure Thunderbolt can carry it either (I’m a bit fuzzy on the exact math and what’s available to DisplayPort in TB3/4), it should fit into a 40Gbps DP2.0 link, or be very close to it. But DP2.0 also brings 80Gbps links which should help. At least until it gets saturated again.


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## Andropov

Has anyone seen any proof that the Studio Display is actually the same panel as the UltraFine 5K or the 27" iMac? Everyone is saying that it is, but I've seen no proof of it. For starters, the brightness is higher (600 nits vs 500 nits), and I've seen videos were the contrast, compared to the 5K UltraFine, looks much better (yeah, not the most scientific test, but I haven't been able to find any data on the measured contrast, and Apple doesn't disclose the number).



> From this video




Also, YouTube apparently shows the HDR mode toggle on the Studio Display but not on the UltraFine. This makes *some* sense, since some HDR specifications don't require local dimming. I haven't found any measurement of the black level of the Studio Display (cd/m2 of the darkest black), but maybe it even fits onto the DisplayHDR 600 standard, even if Apple doesn't advertise it as HDR.

Honestly, media outlets have provided very weak reviews for the Studio Display. Most only parrot back Apple's listed specs, and compare it to other displays based on a bunch of spec numbers whose meaning they don't seem to grasp. The Verge has this spectacularly idiotic fragment, for instance:


> The Studio Display has… well, it has none of that. It’s a regular old LED backlight that lights the entire screen all the time, and the darkest black it can produce is basically gray. In normal use in a well-lit room, it looks fine enough — LCD displays have looked like this for a long time now — but if you’re watching a movie in a dark room, the letterboxing will look light gray. There are $379 TVs with more advanced local-dimming backlights than this.


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## Buntschwalbe

Andropov said:


> Has anyone seen any proof that the Studio Display is actually the same panel as the UltraFine 5K or the 27" iMac? Everyone is saying that it is, but I've seen no proof of it. For starters, the brightness is higher (600 nits vs 500 nits), and I've seen videos were the contrast, compared to the 5K UltraFine, looks much better (yeah, not the most scientific test, but I haven't been able to find any data on the measured contrast, and Apple doesn't disclose the number).
> 
> 
> 
> Also, YouTube apparently shows the HDR mode toggle on the Studio Display but not on the UltraFine. This makes *some* sense, since some HDR specifications don't require local dimming. I haven't found any measurement of the black level of the Studio Display (cd/m2 of the darkest black), but maybe it even fits onto the DisplayHDR 600 standard, even if Apple doesn't advertise it as HDR.
> 
> Honestly, media outlets have provided very weak reviews for the Studio Display. Most only parrot back Apple's listed specs, and compare it to other displays based on a bunch of spec numbers whose meaning they don't seem to grasp. The Verge has this spectacularly idiotic fragment, for instance:



"This is maybe a bit off-topic"
I'm amazed that the picture you posted is actually quite close where i live. it's a mountain called niesen. anyway, just excitement about a random coincidence.


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## Cmaier

Buntschwalbe said:


> "This is maybe a bit off-topic"
> I'm amazed that the picture you posted is actually quite close where i live. it's a mountain called niesen. anyway, just excitement about a random coincidence.



In der Schweitz? Willkommen!


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## Buntschwalbe

Cmaier said:


> In der Schweitz? Willkommen!



Ja, genau. Aus Bern. Vielen Dank, ich fühl mich sehr Willkommen in diesem Forum. Ich lese und lerne viel neues hier, auch wenn ich selbst leider keine Expertise zu den technischen Diskussionen einbringen kann.


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## Cmaier

Buntschwalbe said:


> Ja, genau. Aus Bern. Vielen Dank, ich fühl mich sehr Willkommen in diesem Forum. Ich lese und lerne viel neues hier, auch wenn ich selbst keine Expertise zu den technischen Diskussionen einbringen kann.




Wir alle lernen hier.  Eigentlich, ich lerne hier Deutsch.  Leider muss ich viel mehr lernen.


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## Nycturne

Andropov said:


> Has anyone seen any proof that the Studio Display is actually the same panel as the UltraFine 5K or the 27" iMac? Everyone is saying that it is, but I've seen no proof of it. For starters, the brightness is higher (600 nits vs 500 nits), and I've seen videos were the contrast, compared to the 5K UltraFine, looks much better (yeah, not the most scientific test, but I haven't been able to find any data on the measured contrast, and Apple doesn't disclose the number).




It could very well be the same _LCD_ _panel, _but different _everything else_. Brightness is a function of the backlight, _some_ contrast comes from the layers used with the panel. LG uses plastic vs glass in the top layer, IIRC. 

LG is pretty much the only one that makes the 5K 27” LCD panel. But the panel itself doesn’t make a monitor, for sure.


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## DT

We ran up to an Apple store appointment,  I was checking out our options on an MBP issue (that went pretty much like I expected )

Knocked around on a Studio for a few minutes, it's [no surprise] incredibly quick, makes no sound, has a beautiful simplicity in the design.  It appears much bigger than the actual dimensions would suggest, maybe the comparison to a Mini (even though they share width/depth measurements) sitting next to it, clearly it's taller (by over 2.5x) but that makes it seem larger overall.   It was connected to a new Studio Display (with the T&H adjustment), which looked pretty spectacular.

Honestly, if it would improve anything about my current work, I would buy one right now - but it won't in the short term and it'll just introduce some complexities I don't have time to deal with at the moment (in the middle of something pretty major).


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## MEJHarrison

DT said:


> It was connected to a new Studio Display (with the T&H adjustment), which looked pretty spectacular.




I checked one of those out while at Best Buy over the weekend.  It did look great.  But so does the 2017 iMac sitting on my desk.  It's essentially the same screen.  Although I've seen comparisons between the Studio Display and LG, so I know there's an improvement or two in there.

I keep saying no. But I certainly wouldn't bet on myself holding strong to that stance.  In fact, if I were a betting person, I'd put good money on me breaking down and getting one.


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## DT

MEJHarrison said:


> I checked one of those out while at Best Buy over the weekend.  It did look great.  But so does the 2017 iMac sitting on my desk.  It's essentially the same screen.  Although I've seen comparisons between the Studio Display and LG, so I know there's an improvement or two in there.
> 
> I keep saying no. But I certainly wouldn't bet on myself holding strong to that stance.  In fact, if I were a betting person, I'd put good money on me breaking down and getting one.




I'm a two-display person (sometimes three ), so vs. having $3500 with of monitors, I usually go with some Dell business class product, like right now, I'd do some U2723 (4K, 27", we get the pro service upgrade for free, onsite, 3 year, no bad pixels), usually can score a deal, like right now $155 discounted so under $1400 delivered for two.


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## MEJHarrison

DT said:


> I'm a two-display person (sometimes three ), so vs. having $3500 with of monitors, I usually go with some Dell business class product, like right now, I'd do some U2723 (4K, 27", we get the pro service upgrade for free, onsite, 3 year, no bad pixels), usually can score a deal, like right now $155 discounted so under $1400 delivered for two.




At the moment I've got the 27" iMac and a 27" 4k LG.  I don't need two screens at super high resolution.  But I do need at least one that nice.


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## Yoused

DT said:


> I'm a two-display person (sometimes three )



Hey, I have a challege for you: set it up so #3 is owned by a Linux box, so that it switches control of the keyboard and mouse when the cursor crosses the boundary.


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## Andropov

Nycturne said:


> It could very well be the same _LCD_ _panel, _but different _everything else_. Brightness is a function of the backlight, _some_ contrast comes from the layers used with the panel. LG uses plastic vs glass in the top layer, IIRC.
> 
> LG is pretty much the only one that makes the 5K 27” LCD panel. But the panel itself doesn’t make a monitor, for sure.



Fair. But what people try to imply when they say that it's 'a 6 year old panel' is that you could get an equal looking display 6 years ago. You couldn't.

I'm seeing a lot of people comparing it to ~$500 4K 27" HDR400 monitors too, which have half the pixels, worse peak brightness, worse dpi, worse contrast, and even worse HDR capabilities despite the Studio Display not being HDR certified. And then go like _"see? this is massively overpriced!_"_._

One place where I agree with the general sentiment against this display is on backlight technology. It's a *great* display, but in the middle of Apple moving all its displays to OLED/Mini-LED, a new $1699 display using the backlight tech that is currently being replaced in every product lineup is... odd.


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## DT

Yoused said:


> Hey, I have a challege for you: set it up so #3 is owned by a Linux box, so that it switches control of the keyboard and mouse when the cursor crosses the boundary.












						Synergy - Share one mouse & keyboard across computers
					

Synergy is an app that shares one mouse and one keyboard across multiple computers and monitors. Instant download, easy to setup in minutes.




					symless.com


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## Yoused

What I want is a monitor that fixes that probem where I say that is burgundy but she insists it is maroon while my father tries to calm us down by splitting the difference, "_it's purple_".


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## Andropov

Yoused said:


> What I want is a monitor that fixes that probem where I say that is burgundy but she insists it is maroon while my father tries to calm us down by splitting the difference, "_it's purple_".



Next time just say that it's #6A0DAD.


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## Nycturne

Andropov said:


> Fair. But what people try to imply when they say that it's 'a 6 year old panel' is that you could get an equal looking display 6 years ago. You couldn't.
> 
> I'm seeing a lot of people comparing it to ~$500 4K 27" HDR400 monitors too, which have half the pixels, worse peak brightness, worse dpi, worse contrast, and even worse HDR capabilities despite the Studio Display not being HDR certified. And then go like _"see? this is massively overpriced!_"_._
> 
> One place where I agree with the general sentiment against this display is on backlight technology. It's a *great* display, but in the middle of Apple moving all its displays to OLED/Mini-LED, a new $1699 display using the backlight tech that is currently being replaced in every product lineup is... odd.




Oh, I agree there’s a lot of conflation going on. Apple has always given more care to their displays than the very companies they source panels from, and spending money on small improvements that add up, and that’s true for a lot of premium monitors aimed at content work. 

As for the lack of mini-LED, I agree it‘s a bit odd, but I also wonder about the pricing scale involved. I am mostly curious how much the size of the display plays into the costs, versus the number of zones. If a mini-LED version would be over 2k USD, I could see them wanting something that sits below it to get closer to the LG 5K price.


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## Andropov

Nycturne said:


> Oh, I agree there’s a lot of conflation going on. Apple has always given more care to their displays than the very companies they source panels from, and spending money on small improvements that add up, and that’s true for a lot of premium monitors aimed at content work.



I think that not having a standard way to measure display characteristics is a big problem here. I couldn't find answers to very simple questions like, for example, how black is the deepest black of this display compared to others. At most, a few media outlets have measured contrast, but reviews of the same outlet for different displays often have contrast measured at a different brightness, so the measurements can't really be compared. Really, the best option is to go to a store and try the display, while for example CPU benchmarks give a very accurate estimate of the performance to expect for a computer. So many reviews end up being just a list of the published specs, and have just a tiny section about display quality, because other things (build quality, camera, speakers...) are much easier to compare to other models.



Nycturne said:


> As for the lack of mini-LED, I agree it‘s a bit odd, but I also wonder about the pricing scale involved. I am mostly curious how much the size of the display plays into the costs, versus the number of zones. If a mini-LED version would be over 2k USD, I could see them wanting something that sits below it to get closer to the LG 5K price.



In retrospect, expecting a cheap 27" 5K Mini-LED 120Hz display when the Pro Display XDR is $5000 and doesn't even have 120Hz (nor as many lighting zones as the MBP display) was just wishful thinking. Probably it's as you say, mini-LED is too expensive for an entry level display. The Pro Display XDR was too expensive for anyone other than video/photo editors. The Studio Display is already borderline too much money for what non-content creator are willing to pay. Going even higher (mini-LED) would mean that non-video/photo editors still can't justify buying an Apple display.


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## MEJHarrison

I've been trying to figure out what to replace my iMac with.  From looking at the M1 reviews, I'm quite sure a Mac mini would take care of my needs.  But I'd also like to keep it at least 5 years, if not longer.  So a little future proofing seems like a good idea.  But the thought of jump to an M1 Max/Ultra in the new Studio just feels like overkill.  That's way more power than I'm likely to need in foreseeable future.

So the M1 Pro is what I decided I'd want.  But it seems I can only get that in a laptop.  And when I did a 1TB system with 32GB of memory, the laptop with an M1 Pro was $400 more than the Studio with the M1 Max.  If I drop the laptop down to 16GB, they're the same price.

So it seems the sane options are either go with the Mac mini (maybe hold out for an M2), or just suck it up and go with the Studio.

By the time I talk myself into everything (I'm almost there now), I'm thinking the new Studio Display and new Studio (base model bumped up to 1TB drive).  That should last me for a very long time.


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## Andropov

MEJHarrison said:


> I've been trying to figure out what to replace my iMac with.  From looking at the M1 reviews, I'm quite sure a Mac mini would take care of my needs.  But I'd also like to keep it at least 5 years, if not longer.  So a little future proofing seems like a good idea.  But the thought of jump to an M1 Max/Ultra in the new Studio just feels like overkill.  That's way more power than I'm likely to need in foreseeable future.
> 
> So the M1 Pro is what I decided I'd want.  But it seems I can only get that in a laptop.  And when I did a 1TB system with 32GB of memory, the laptop with an M1 Pro was $400 more than the Studio with the M1 Max.  If I drop the laptop down to 16GB, they're the same price.
> 
> So it seems the sane options are either go with the Mac mini (maybe hold out for an M2), or just suck it up and go with the Studio.
> 
> By the time I talk myself into everything (I'm almost there now), I'm thinking the new Studio Display and new Studio (base model bumped up to 1TB drive).  That should last me for a very long time.



IMHO, with Macs now tied to Apple Silicon's pace of getting +20% CPU performance per year, and generally getting more significant upgrades lately, it makes sense to go back to the strategy of getting the base model and putting that extra money into updating more often. +20% performance increase YoY is a 70% faster computer in just 3 years. In a similar situation, I got the M1 Pro with just 16GB of RAM cause it's fine for my needs of the next three years, instead of going for the 32GB config. When I got the 2015 MBP, I configured it to last instead.


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## Joelist

One of the things in some of the Studio Display "reviews" that is aggravating is they are comparing apples and oranges and they know it. The Studio Display may use the same panel as the LG but the color calibration, drivers and coating are FAR superior. The build quality is also way better (the LG is both cheap plastic and the stand rattles among other things). The Apple Studio also:

- Has a high resolution Webcam with high end DSP and on a Mac enables Center Stage and other advanced functions

 - Has a high end sound system (with subwoofers) and a really excellent mike. 

- Has its own built in SOC (A13) and supports stuff like Hey Siri among other things. 

- Four backend ports (3 USB-C plus a TB3)

You HAVE to factor this stuff in or the comparison is not reasonable.


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## mr_roboto

MEJHarrison said:


> I've been trying to figure out what to replace my iMac with.  From looking at the M1 reviews, I'm quite sure a Mac mini would take care of my needs.  But I'd also like to keep it at least 5 years, if not longer.  So a little future proofing seems like a good idea.  But the thought of jump to an M1 Max/Ultra in the new Studio just feels like overkill.  That's way more power than I'm likely to need in foreseeable future.
> 
> So the M1 Pro is what I decided I'd want.  But it seems I can only get that in a laptop.



One thing to keep in mind is some informed conjecture about Apple's future product directions...

There's this giant Apple Silicon price gap between the $900 M1 Mini 8/512 and the $2000 Mac Studio M1 Max 32/512.  Right now every non-iMac between those two prices is a hex-core space gray Intel mini, which starts at $1100 for 8/512, and rises to $1700 for 32/512. 

So far Apple takes away Intel Mac models from the lineup once Apple thinks they have a good enough Apple Silicon replacement.  The big price gap in Apple Silicon desktop Macs and the continued existence of the high end Intel minis is a pretty strong hint that a M1 Pro (or maybe M2 Pro) mini is coming.


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## MEJHarrison

mr_roboto said:


> One thing to keep in mind is some informed conjecture about Apple's future product directions...
> 
> There's this giant Apple Silicon price gap between the $900 M1 Mini 8/512 and the $2000 Mac Studio M1 Max 32/512.  Right now every non-iMac between those two prices is a hex-core space gray Intel mini, which starts at $1100 for 8/512, and rises to $1700 for 32/512.
> 
> So far Apple takes away Intel Mac models from the lineup once Apple thinks they have a good enough Apple Silicon replacement.  The big price gap in Apple Silicon desktop Macs and the continued existence of the high end Intel minis is a pretty strong hint that a M1 Pro (or maybe M2 Pro) mini is coming.




An M1 Pro based mini would be ideal.  Fortunately, I'm not in a giant rush.  I've already been dragging my feet waiting for the new M2 to appear.


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## Yoused

mr_roboto said:


> There's this giant Apple Silicon price gap between the $900 M1 Mini 8/512 and the $2000 Mac Studio M1 Max 32/512.



Not really, though. The mini starts at US$700 with 8/256 and specs up to $1800 with 16/2T/10GbitEthernet. Seems like the top-end Mini comes in just a little under the base Studio, which looks like a good product stack. I believe this entire line will hold steady until M2 and be updated together.


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