Does Marvel TV (Disney+) Strengthen or Cheapen Marvel Franchises?

[Huntn]

After watching the first two Hawkeyes (tv episodes), Hawkeye who is a good character, I just don’t find myself engaged, nor with WandaVision, or Hawkeye and the Winter Shoulder or even Loki. Eh…nothing I’d like to particularly want to rewatch.

I think the same argument can be made for Disney StarWars, over saturation which cheapens, stories that are forgettable and bloated.

The essence of my argument:

• Movie franchise brought to TV are cheapened by virtue of relative over exposure, especially when stories are bloated and when less effort is put into the scripts.
• TV series turned into movies typically have pacing issues or they feel like you are just getting a taste.
• I’ll admit there are some exceptions.

Would I want to see the weekly adventures of the Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor, or see the serialized version of the Infinity Stone saga? What is amazing in this one case, there are so many Marvel movies with Infinity Stones in the middle of them, it is almost serialized, but maintains the impact of movie story telling.

TV is a different critter and there are TV shows built with substance and staying power that I became vested in, a different pace of story telling and almost universally I am disappointed when these franchises are turned into movies. For example I’ve been crazy in love with certain shows like Star Trek Next Generation, Rome (HBO), Dexter (1st 2 seasons Showtime), Battlestar Galactica, Dallas (believe it or not ), Homeland (First two seasons, Showtime), Downton Abbey (PBS).

However there has not been a Star Trek movie I’ve liked (until the JJ reboot). My argument has to do with the tempo of these movies (prior to JJ) vs the no nonsense tempo of STNG, where the episode has to be told in 45 minutes. The Downtown Abbey movie was good enough, but still feels like just a taste instead of 10-20 hours of solid story telling which is what you get in a good TV series, a steady feed of intriguing content that comes at a different pace and lasts longer. Word has it that there could be Game of Thrones movies in the works, that’s a remain to be seen if they are worthy.

 

[Pumbaa]

Does Marvel TV (Disney +) Strengthen or Cheapen Marvel Franchises?

I was surprised to find “Yes” as an official alternative. Thought I would have to add that silly answer here as a reply.

 

[Huntn]

I was surprised to find “Yes” as an official alternative. Thought I would have to add that silly answer here as a reply.

Someone was nice of enough to pm me to point out the issue with this poll as is, it actually looked good to me until I reread it.
i have asked for a fix from the local cartel.
New Choices:
1. Strengthen
2. Cheapen
3. Case by case
4. Undecided

 

[JayMysteri0]

I think if you're looking at the movies as entity on it's own, then yes TV ALWAYS cheapens films. It's why back in the day actors who got popular on television sought to leave while they were hot. The thinking was that the public wouldn't pay to see them in a movie, when they could still see them weekly on television. Of course that is not the thinking of Disney.

To Disney, Marvel is an exploitable IP to be mined for all of it's worth. Which is not limited to movies.

Disney & Marvel's true biggest concern isn't whether the movies are "cheapened", it's whether fatigue sets in from the always never ending series of supposedly connected movies that one is supposed to see. I've heard that mentioned in regards to the new Eternals movie, that doesn't excite the fanbase like the Avengers did, or the X - Men might.

It takes how many years between each movie in a series? The TV shows allow for a bit connectivity / continuity to maintain interest & drive Disney+ sales. If the TV shows were the continuing adventures of the Avengers, it could be seen as a direct cheapening. Instead the series have been about Avengers who wouldn't get the same attention as the bigger members, so if anything it's filling a need for the most diehard of fans.

Again, I feel the true concern isn't in cheapening or over saturation from any TV show, but from just Marvel movie fatigue. Unless a movie has something that draws the fans back, it's going to be just another Marvel movie. Just "another Marvel movie" is something that Disney will ultimately have to contend with. Fans are getting worked up over Spider-Man because of the previous cliff hanger, all the possibilities offered in the trailer of who could be in the movie, and it's likely the end of the Holland run in solo Spider-Man films. That's a movie that fans already have an investment in, unlike Shang Chi & the Eternals, and that will be Marvel's most difficult hill to climb with this new phase.

Getting fans to reinvest in newer properties is the challenge. The shows don't cheapen that or movies existing or yet to come. If anything, the shows can be the testing ground of what should be a movie next, instead of offering what no one may want to see.

 

[Herdfan]

Disney & Marvel's true biggest concern isn't whether the movies are "cheapened", it's whether fatigue sets in from the always never ending series of supposedly connected movies that one is supposed to see.

Nailed it.

But not only fatigue, but the never ending amount of things you "have to know" to go forward. It is almost like a huge RPG where you can't just join in the middle because you don't have all the backstory.

The TV series only adds to this. Watching The Madolorian with our daughter, she is telling us about these characters who were in the Clone Wars series. Well, I didn't watch that series and really had barely heard of it. I guess it is a way to suck you in hoping you immerse yourself into it. Some will, but some won't.

At this point, the only MCU franchise I still enjoy is Guardians. And I have no idea what the new one will be like because apparently a couple of characters were killed off in some Avenger's movie.

 

[Huntn]

Nailed it.

But not only fatigue, but the never ending amount of things you "have to know" to go forward. It is almost like a huge RPG where you can't just join in the middle because you don't have all the backstory.

The TV series only adds to this. Watching The Madolorian with our daughter, she is telling us about these characters who were in the Clone Wars series. Well, I didn't watch that series and really had barely heard of it. I guess it is a way to suck you in hoping you immerse yourself into it. Some will, but some won't.

At this point, the only MCU franchise I still enjoy is Guardians. And I have no idea what the new one will be like because apparently a couple of characters were killed off in some Avenger's movie.

I found the Infinity Stone stories were enjoyable on a stand alone basis, yet, I wanted to know more about the guy with the big chin, who was enlisting others to gather Infinity Stones for him, or how did Loki’s Scepter end up in the hands of Hydra. Later because these stories had grabbed me, I did want to understand the flow of events. I have identified 7 movies that give you the gist of the Infinity Stone related stories so you understand what Infinity War was about, but the 12 movie choice is better.

Of interest my understanding is that at one early point, Marvel had no master plan that built towards Infinity War, that one of the directors of one of the movies wanted a tie in or something like that to another Marvel movie, but I can’t find the link.

 

[Huntn]

I’ve been thinking about this. As TV series do you feel compelled to go back and rewatch them? As in there is something special about revisiting them? This is a feeling I get with the movies I fall for and purchase for rewatching. At best the short Marvel TV series do act as bridges and I guess in the big picture they could be viewed as strengthening the movie franchises by setting up the next phase of movies. But if a particular franchise were now to exist as TV series, they would be diminished.

 

[Eric]

I know I'm being cynical but I think they've bled these movies dry to the point that they've been forced to come up with all of these combos of hero vs hero to step up the game and have lost any sense of real humanizing stories as a result. The first Superman, for example (I know that's not Marvel but the point is the same for both), told a great story, same with the first Spiderman but now it's just turned into a CGI superfest of good vs evil supers.

Additionally, the Batman vs Superman was the most laughable matchup of them all. In the world of fiction, one can fly as fast as a bullet, is bullet proof and has super strength (seemingly invincible) vs a guy who had rich parents. Ridiculous on every level. It would be nice if they can get back to decent stories around the characters instead of cartoonishly bad mashups.

 

[Huntn]

I know I'm being cynical but I think they've bled these movies dry to the point that they've been forced to come up with all of these combos of hero vs hero to step up the game and have lost any sense of real humanizing stories as a result. The first Superman, for example (I know that's not Marvel but the point is the same for both), told a great story, same with the first Spiderman but now it's just turned into a CGI superfest of good vs evil supers.

Additionally, the Batman vs Superman was the most laughable matchup of them all. In the world of fiction, one can fly as fast as a bullet, is bullet proof and has super strength (seemingly invincible) vs a guy who had rich parents. Ridiculous on every level. It would be nice if they can get back to decent stories around the characters instead of cartoonishly bad mashups.

It all boils down to the writing, good or bad. If you look at individual franchise, there have only been 2 Guardians of the Galaxy movie, both worthy in my opinion, and they have tons of source material they could pull from. Thor, 3 movies, 1 and 3 were outstanding. The events in both of these movies series were large and memorable.

When you compare these stories to most of Marvel TV series, the TV series feel like filler and mostly forgettable. Yes, Wanda (Scarlett Witch) went though a phase trying to escape reality, and it was pretty good, yet it likely will have little to do with any subsequent movie. Both WandaVision and Loki are good, with the caveat with Loki and all the parallel reality tends to bother me because it all becomes one big “whatever“, and if Loki ever gets back home, you have to wonder if he is really home, are the writers just going to blow off all of that and just slide back into whatever world they want to have. One thing that is apparent and rightfully so, every Marvel story post End Game has referenced the Snap.

 

[Eric]

It all boils down to the writing, good or bad. If you look at individual franchise, there have only been 2 Guardians of the Galaxy movie, both worthy in my opinion, and they have tons of source material they could pull from. Thor, 3 movies, 1 and 3 were outstanding. The events in both of these movies series were large and memorable.

When you compare these stories to most of Marvel TV series, the TV series feel like filler and mostly forgettable. Yes, Wanda (Scarlett Witch) went though a phase trying to escape reality, and it was pretty good, yet it likely will have little to do with any subsequent movie. Both WandaVision and Loki are good, with the caveat with Loki and all the parallel reality tends to bother me because it all becomes one big “whatever“, and if Loki ever gets back home, you have to wonder if he is really home, are the writers just going to blow off all of that and just slide back into whatever world they want to have. One thing that is apparent and rightfully so, every Marvel story post End Game has referenced the Snap.

Couldn't agree more about the Guardians movies, both are great IMO and it seems to be a different a refreshingly different direction from all the others.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Disney is at a low point for me in their history, both with what they are putting on screen and in the parks. For me they started losing the script back when they started refacing the Haunted Mansion with a Night Before Christmas theme around the holidays and unfortunately for me that’s the time of year I’ve tended to go. I couldn’t tell you the last time I saw the Haunted Mansion in its original glory.

If there was a “make Disney great again!” movement it would probably be whatever the state was when you were a kid. When you grow up and if you don’t have kids you probably stop paying attention to whatever their latest iteration is. But having said that, I guess with the Marvel and Star Wars franchises they are at least attracting adult attention. I just don’t feel it’s the same magic as classic Disney and it feels like a cynical cash grab at every turn.

I recently saw somebody responding to all the people complaining about Disney leaning hard on Marvel and Star Wars, and he had a valid point – before those franchises they weren’t exactly hitting them out of the park constantly for decades. So what exactly do people want them to return to? Walt said himself that he wanted the Disney parks to constantly be evolving, but I think for many people they would be happy if the parks just froze in time from when they were a kid.

 

[Herdfan]

Couldn't agree more about the Guardians movies, both are great IMO and it seems to be a different a refreshingly different direction from all the others.

The one thing about the Guardians movies vs all the other MCU movies is if I am scrolling through the guide channel surfing and see a Guardians, either one, I will go to it and watch for a while. Will not do that will any other MCU movie.

But my daughter says the new one, Shang-Chi????? is a good movie and it can stand alone. So maybe when she is home over Christmas we will watch it.

 

[SuperMatt]

I recently signed up for a Disney+ bundle since it includes ESPN+ which I wanted to watch Buffalo Sabres hockey games.

In watching a handful of the Marvel movies, I think they’ve peaked. That being said, I really enjoyed Shang-Chi, but it stands on its own and the “Marvel Cinematic Universe” connections in the movie added nothing to it. They’re clearly added solely for the purpose of connecting them to the franchise and opening the door for crossovers.

And the post-credits nonsense is off-putting. I don’t want to sit through the credits to see a 30-second clip that ends up being critical to understanding the plot of the next film. It was cute at first, but it’s just stupid now.

 

[Pumbaa]

But my daughter says the new one, Shang-Chi????? is a good movie and it can stand alone. So maybe when she is home over Christmas we will watch it.

The movie can absolutely stand alone in the sense that there absolutely no need to be invested in the MCU to watch and enjoy it.

Pretty much everything is new, kind of like GotG was, I guess.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

And the post-credits nonsense is off-putting. I don’t want to sit through the credits to see a 30-second clip that ends up being critical to understanding the plot of the next film. It was cute at first, but it’s just stupid now.

I watched a movie on Disney+ recently, unfortunately I don't remember which, but I checked how long the movie had to go and it was about 25 more minutes. About 5 minutes later the movie ended and the credits started. So 20 minutes of end credits. I shit you not. I did the whole thumbnail scroll thing and, yup, 20 minutes of credits from what I could tell.

 

[Pumbaa]

And the post-credits nonsense is off-putting. I don’t want to sit through the credits to see a 30-second clip that ends up being critical to understanding the plot of the next film. It was cute at first, but it’s just stupid now.

Any example of this? Can’t think of any vital post-credit scene off the top of my head. Aren’t they all just more or less teasers for fans?

 

[Huntn]

I recently signed up for a Disney+ bundle since it includes ESPN+ which I wanted to watch Buffalo Sabres hockey games.

In watching a handful of the Marvel movies, I think they’ve peaked. That being said, I really enjoyed Shang-Chi, but it stands on its own and the “Marvel Cinematic Universe” connections in the movie added nothing to it. They’re clearly added solely for the purpose of connecting them to the franchise and opening the door for crossovers.

And the post-credits nonsense is off-putting. I don’t want to sit through the credits to see a 30-second clip that ends up being critical to understanding the plot of the next film. It was cute at first, but it’s just stupid now.

I can’t say that the post credit scenes are critical, just a tidbit peak into the future that sometimes has little to do with anything important as I remember Howard the Duck.

 

[SuperMatt]

Any example of this? Can’t think of any vital post-credit scene off the top of my head. Aren’t they all just more or less teasers for fans?

Maybe you are right. I thought it was stuff you needed to know for the next movie, but maybe it was extraneous. Either way, I like either no post-credit scenes or else some silly outtakes. Not stuff that’s part of the story, even if it’s insignificant and/or tangential. An example of post-credit scenes that seem appropriate: in many Jackie Chan films, they show how some of the stunts were done. If you care about that, you might find it interesting. If not, you didn’t miss any part of the story.