I can swear that my smart home devices are listening in to conversations and targeting advertising

Eric

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Lately I've been doing this thing where I mix ranch dressing and buffalo wing sauce as a dipping sauce for chicken a couple of times a week. I told my wife about as we pondered if they make a sauch like that, she said she heard of something similar, etc. and that was it. Two days later I see an ad for something exactly like that on my Reddit feed, too rare and coincidental to be overlooked, neither of us googled it or anything else. This also happened when discussion something pretty personal over a month ago, again never googling or looking it up.

I have both the Amazon Echo and the Google Home and am not sure which is doing it but there seems little doubt now. They both "claim" not to do this but I don't see how else it would be possible. Anyone else experience this?
 

Herdfan

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I have both the Amazon Echo and the Google Home and am not sure which is doing it but there seems little doubt now. They both "claim" not to do this but I don't see how else it would be possible. Anyone else experience this?

Not just those, but your phone as well.

Just for fun, so night talk to your wife about product you would never have ever talked about. Like buying a truck or a boat. But do it in your car or somewhere away from Alexa or Goggle Home.

Ads will show up on your phone.

We have cats, but one night we were sitting in our car waiting on a text that our table was ready talking about buying a bag of dog food for the homeless guy with a dog that was sitting at the interchange. A couple of days later we were both getting ads for dog food.
 

Clix Pix

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I don't use any "smart home" devices. Don't need them, don't want them. I am perfectly physically capable and thankfully not so lazy that I can't bring myself to get up out of a chair and simply walk over to the appropriate location to turn on or off a room's light switch or to turn on or off the TV if the remote isn't handy, or adjust the thermostat, whatever....

As someone who is retired and on a fixed income, I choose to put my money into what I perceive offers more value, and "smart home" devices just aren't in that category.

As for my iPhones and iPads eavesdropping on me, since I live alone there really is not much conversation going in this household, so probably the only thing they might pick up on is the occasional muttered expletive if I drop or spill something. I don't play music with HomePods or such, so no opportunity for spying there, either.

A single family home and what a homeowner may choose to do in terms of audio/video recording inside or outside it is one thing. (Although there may be community-wide HOA policies and regulations around this,) In a multifamily dwelling, such as a rental apartment complex, a condominium complex or a co-op development, it is quite another. In my condominium complex Ring doorbells and any sort of video or audio recording devices are not permitted on or around our front doors, our siding glass doors, our decks or windows, and/or positioned anywhere on the exterior of the building. Owners and residents may install and use security systems, though, since those aren't recording either by audio or visual means whatever is going on in or around the household or immediate vicinity of the property.

Someone can have a video camera recording footage from within his or her unit looking out their window(s) on the parking lot if they are concerned about their vehicle's safety and such, but they cannot place a camera outside their windows on the building's exterior. Use of these recording devices is considered violation of other property owners' / residents' and their visitors' privacy. We had a situation a couple of years ago where a tenant had set up one or more recording devices on his deck, which happened to be at boardwalk level, and so everyone who happened to be walking by on the boardwalk was picked up on video by his devices. That didn't go over well with a lot of residents here! There were also other issues with that tenant and to make a long, irrelevant story short, everyone was relieved when he moved out of this complex. The one good thing that did emerge from his temporary residence here was the realization that we residents and the condominium board of directors needed to be taking a good look at the whole issue of privacy and various electronic devices.

That said, yes, I have noticed that when I am on the computer (which I am most of the time, as opposed to an IOS device) and I happen to run a search on a topic which for whatever reason briefly catches my attention, it doesn't seem to take all that long before there are items related to that very topic popping up either in Google searches again or in social media sites I visit which are totally unrelated to whatever that topic might have been.
 
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KingOfPain

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I occasionally talk to someone about certain topics, while they have their smartphone on them and I typically have none at all. Then at home, videos for that topic suddenly show up in my Youtube recommendations.
This has happened at least two or three times and each time it was too specific to be just happenstance.

The only explanation I have it that the phone of my discussion partner somewhow recognizes my voice print and somehow matches it to my Google/Youtube account. And I only use that account for subscribing to channels, I've never uploaded a video or audio recodring with my voice to the internet.

And that is totally creepy!
I actually switched from my old first model Fire TV to an Apple TV, because the newer Fire TV models now have the microphones in the device itself, not just the remote. On the old Fire TV, I've tried the voice search once or twice, found out that it didn't work properly, and then never used it again.

I think an old Stasi officer (i.e. the guys in the GDR that were spying on their own citizens) once said that during their time they had to break into people's houses and place all the bugs. Nowadays, most people bring the bugs into their home willingly.
 

fischersd

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Guys - Amazon's devices sending EVERYTHING that they hear is very well documented. They had a PR case where some of their staff harassed people for things that Alexa had sent back to home base.

And, one of my former engineers moved to the "white hat" team at BlackBerry - and stopped carrying an Android device two years later....because, even knowing all he knew in terms of hacking Android, he STILL couldn't disable it sending everything back to Google. It's baked in.

So, yes, they're listening to everything that you do. (it's why I only run Apple shit where the 3 of them compete) - Siri is running local. (it's also why she's become so f'ing stupid - chiming in all the damn time) *sigh*. Whatever happened to only responding to "hey Siri"?????

Oh...and any "smart" devices that come with Alexa built in - that's disabled. Never gonna happen.
 

fooferdoggie

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hell I wish Siri listened better. well at least the dumb balls. my headphones listen to well most f the time.
 

fischersd

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Great, how about a link or two?
Yep, np:


Video feeds:

Just too hard to find the publishings on the employees that were stupid enough to harass their customers...Amazon has WAY too many employee relations cases documented on the web.
 

Edd

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The only smart listening devices I have are a Sonos Roam and my LG CX TV. I don’t have the TV connected to the internet and I keep the microphone and Smart assistant settings off on the Roam.

I wonder about the Roam though, and our iPhones. I’m not a paranoid person by nature, as I think most people are too incompetent to pull off huge conspiracies but I also see ads I shouldn’t be seeing, so I’m missing something.
 

Pumbaa

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Yep, np:

So by “Amazon's devices sending EVERYTHING that they hear” you meant everything after the wake word (and a bit extra afterwards if follow-up mode is enabled)?

I thought you meant everything-everything since it is always listening for the wake word. Sending everything recorded when actually used is indeed very well documented. Officially documented even.

So a problem is that people in the vicinity of the device may get recorded and uploaded when someone else intentionally uses the device.

From a technical point of view this is something I think Amazon wants to eliminate as much as possible, isolating the voice interacting with the device via improved beamforming and other processing. Automatic speech recognition is challenging enough with perfect audio.

There is also a problem with the device incorrectly triggering on words other than the wake word due to technological limitations, thus recording and uploading audio it should not have.

As a developer, getting unwanted junk like that sucks. 😝

Overall it seems to work as intended with a few bugs. The main concerns would be Amazon not properly informing users about what is happening and what risks there are, and if Amazon’s policies for handling the data and enforcement of said policies are enough.

Video feeds:

Just too hard to find the publishings on the employees that were stupid enough to harass their customers...Amazon has WAY too many employee relations cases documented on the web.
Ring. Eww. Not touching that with a ten-foot pole.
 

Nycturne

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This has been going on since the inception of “smart devices”

TV shows, websites, movies, games, etc can participate in services that embed audio beacons that we can’t hear but our devices can.

Looks like the audio processing is more in the vein of Shazam-like signature matching. It's a lot simpler to bring new customers in that way as well, since the customer doesn't need to do much but provide the adverts for processing into the signature DB, and store locations if they want to track visits to a physical site.
 

NT1440

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Looks like the audio processing is more in the vein of Shazam-like signature matching. It's a lot simpler to bring new customers in that way as well, since the customer doesn't need to do much but provide the adverts for processing into the signature DB, and store locations if they want to track visits to a physical site.
This was just one quick example. In the early days of Android there was a mini scandal regarding a framework called something like Silverfish that was explicitly turning on microphones to listen for TV advertising audio beacons.

That one was more of a scandal because it was embedded in a pre-packaged library that developers were using for “free” that had this embedded in it where the devs themselves didn’t know they were participating in corporate surveillance. If I recall correctly that “company” just so happened to be invested in by intelligence agencies…
 

Buntschwalbe

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Has anybody of you read the Book "the age of surveillance capitalism" by Shoshana Zuboff?
I'm still reading it; it brings a lot of light to the subject the Eric started here.
It would be awesome to exchange thoughts with people here about her book. As many of you have a lot of insights on tech.
 

NT1440

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Has anybody of you read the Book "the age of surveillance capitalism" by Shoshana Zuboff?
I'm still reading it; it brings a lot of light to the subject the Eric started here.
It would be awesome to exchange thoughts with people here about her book. As many of you have a lot of insights on tech.
A good follow up to that would be Surveillance Valley, it’s about the origins of this technology in the military going back to the Vietnam war.

 

Joe

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They’re all listening. My co worker was talking to me about going to Disney and I started getting Disney ads on my phone.
 
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