Nitrogen gas execution: An abomination in Alabama

[fooferdoggie]

leave it to the outhouse of America.

When, in October 2016, I wrote “death row inmates in Alabama are human guinea pigs” because the state’s capital punishment regime — specifically its barbaric, often bungled lethal injection protocol — is already so dark, so depraved, so outrageously cloaked in lies and officious secrecy, I never could have predicted the situation could get worse.

But it has. In glaring contrast to the heavily circulated, smiling picture of exonerated former Alabama death row inmate Anthony Ray Hinton, ebullient after voting for the first time in a midterm election since being freed in 2015, after a hellacious 30 years on Alabama’s death row, it’s important to understand: the death penalty in Alabama has gotten far worse since Mr Hinton’s release — not better.

Nitrogen gas execution: An abomination in Alabama

The use of the new execution method may begin on Sept. 22, with Alabama's scheduled execution of Alan Eugene Miller.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Yoused]

Nitrogen seems like about the most "humane" form of state-sponsored murder, as the victim will just lose consciousness and stop breathing, without any obvious suffering or ickiness. Which fails to mitigate the fact that state-sponsorsed murder accomplishes nothing but feed some folks' cravings for revenge and makes the state look bad.

 

[fischersd]

I thought Helium was what was preferred by the suicide groups out there (has the added advantage that your last words will be in Chipmunk)

 

[Alli]

It beats the last execution we had where the man was tortured for hours. I’m not even sure why AL still has executions when our governor is putting every penny she can get her hands on into prisons.

 

[Yoused]

… our governor is putting every penny she can get her hands on into prisons.

Kickbacks and graft. Has to be.

 

[AG_PhamD]

One can debate the ethics of legal executions until the cows come home. While I certainly think there are people that “deserve it”, I am not a particularly big fan of it. Locking someone in a cage for the rest of their life I think can also be argued as a worse fate- especially if in solitary confinement.

That said the argument against nitrogen hypoxia as a means of execution is pretty weak. Really the concerns revolve around how to administer it, not how it affects the individual. Nitrogen essentially suffocates a person without them realizing they’re suffocating- so basically one loses consciousness and dies. The argument in the article literally admits this fact. It seems to me a very humane way of killing someone. In fact it is often proposed (and is used) as a means of self-euthanasia. Ones sense of suffocation has nothing to do with oxygen levels, rather CO2 building up in the blood. With Nitrogen gas CO2 is still being exchanged, there is just insufficient oxygen.

The article is correct in that dealing with the gas is not as easy as handling an injected drug, but they make it sound far more complicated than it is. If you look to Nitrogen suicides and self-administered euthanasia, typically one places a bag over the head connected to a Nitrogen tank. The bag fills with nitrogen and you’d have minimal escape because N is slightly lighter than air. In a well ventilated room this should not pose a risk to others- this is not mustard gas. As for the person resisting, the same could be said for literally any other execution procedure. I would image a sedative would be provided to assist with compliance and because it would be the more humane way of doing things (one can debate the humanity of execution, but obviously there are more and less humane ways of killing people).

 

[Alli]

Looks like nobody could answer any of the questions, so executions are on hold for now.

 

[NT1440]

Regardless of predicted results on a person, this is human expirementation.

The death penalty is already wrong, but the origin of this even being considered is when a state (Kansas? Can’t remember) botched so many executions no one but compounding pharmacies would sell them the cocktail. This proposal for this gas came directly from the study that state commissioned.

It hasn’t been done before (outside literal nazi experimentation), and therefore anyone subjected to it is by definition a human experimentation by the State.

 

[Yoused]

The death penalty is already wrong …

Morally, capital punishment is basically neutral or debatable, but in practical terms, it has negative effects, primarily by countenancing violence and by removing the possibility of rectifying errors in justice. In fact, if one is to examine the effects of criminal justice in general, the death penalty highlights that none of it really functions well and the net results of our "justice" system are deeply non-positive. Calling capital punishment "wrong" is facile and fails to, shall we say, do the issue justice.

It hasn’t been done before (outside literal nazi experimentation), and therefore anyone subjected to it is by definition a human experimentation by the State.

That much is really not accurate. The effects of nitrogen asphyxiation are fairly well known from industrial use – it is used to preserve produce, and we know what happens when people enter those spaces without protection. The victim simply loses consciousness when oxygen levels drop too low, the body takes a few more breaths reflexively, not otherwise detecting any problems, then metabolic processes start to fail. As the victim dies in a state of unconsciousness, no obvious suffering can be attested (though we really have no idea what goes on with anyone as they die, we can only guess).

Of course, the problem with that is it sanitizes a thing that should not be. Capital punishment needs to be ugly and revolting, so that we are loath to do it.

 

[fischersd]

Heh...my grandfather was a judge. He thought we should still hang people on the street corners - deterrent effect and all that. He was 94 when he passed a few years ago - from a very different time.

Our justice system should be focused on rehabilitation - but, more so, we should be working on resolving the issues that cause much of the violence in the first place (which we know much of is racial disparity and access to higher education). Free post-secondary education and a basic living wage would do much to correct many families lot in life.

Reparations is a word that many politicians recoil from...but it's long overdue and would do much to remedy the racial victimization that's occurred over the US's history.

We shouldn't be invoking capital punishment as the means to determine guilt are flawed. Judges and juries are biased and prone to acting on emotion. Emotion needs to not be on the scale when deciding something so important as someone continuing to live.

 

[NT1440]

Heh...my grandfather was a judge. He thought we should still hang people on the street corners - deterrent effect and all that. He was 94 when he passed a few years ago - from a very different time.

Our justice system should be focused on rehabilitation - but, more so, we should be working on resolving the issues that cause much of the violence in the first place (which we know much of is racial disparity and access to higher education). Free post-secondary education and a basic living wage would do much to correct many families lot in life.

Reparations is a word that many politicians recoil from...but it's long overdue and would do much to remedy the racial victimization that's occurred over the US's history.

We shouldn't be invoking capital punishment as the means to determine guilt are flawed. Judges and juries are biased and prone to acting on emotion. Emotion needs to not be on the scale when deciding something so important as someone continuing to live.

Agreed, but humans are emotional creatures. Therefore there can be no “justice” in taking a life as it only boils down to state sanctioned revenge.

 

[Alli]

Agreed, but humans are emotional creatures. Therefore there can be no “justice” in taking a life as it only boils down to state sanctioned revenge.

And the same pro-life people who fight against abortion are happy to torture and kill adults.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I could argue (and I do) that I am opposed to the death penalty completely, as it is simply wrong on so many grounds, both moral (Fifth commandment and all of that) and practical (well if you execute the wrong person by mistake, it really is rather difficult to attempt to remedy this).

And that is leaving aside entirely the possibility that people can change, and grow, and learn to understand what they have done - in other words, one can model a system of justice of restitution rather than one of retribution, one where sadistic desires to impose pain, and humiliation and punishment are allowed to far outweigh any belief in a possible redemption.

However, even going beyond all of that, there is the bleakly depressing fact that this penalty - when imposed - is not imposed equally. If you have the misfortune to be born into the wrong social class, or, are born the wrong colour (and, increasingly, are born the wrong gender, the one with wombs, ovaries and other unfortunate sinful protuberances), you are likely to find yourself - disproportionality - on the receiving end of such a sentence.

Thus, not only is it wrong, - and always wrong - and worse, quite impossible to remedy, but it is also more than likely to be disproportionately imposed on people of the wrong class/colour and, possibly, gender.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Regardless of predicted results on a person, this is human expirementation.

The death penalty is already wrong, but the origin of this even being considered is when a state (Kansas? Can’t remember) botched so many executions no one but compounding pharmacies would sell them the cocktail. This proposal for this gas came directly from the study that state commissioned.

It hasn’t been done before (outside literal nazi experimentation), and therefore anyone subjected to it is by definition a human experimentation by the State.

I’m not sure there is really a way to run clinical trials Nitrogen executions on humans in an ethical manner. Thus the first few cases will be in a sense “human experimentation”. That said, inert gas euthanasia has long been done on animals and is a way people commit suicide- and chosen because it’s painless. “Human experimentation” seems to imply a sense of radical testing with little understanding of the underlying science and minimal concern for the subject, which I don’t think is the case here.

Interestingly, Switzerland has recently has approved nitrogen hypoxia via a “pod”. https://gizmodo.com/controversial-assisted-suicide-pod-cleared-for-use-in-s-1848167349

Also relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag

(^^^ I suppose I should warn that link discusses a means of suicide. And if you’re suicidal please seek help.)

I think it’s entirely fair to debate the ethics of executions, but I think debating the logistics and such of nitrogen is the weakest of arguments.

The one risk of nitrogen hypoxia as seen with suicide attempts is an insufficient duration of exposure/ usually this is caused by someone interrupting the suicide. The effect can be severe neurological damage from hypoxia which is a terrible issue, though these people often never regain consciousness and are reduced to a vegetative state. This is completely avoidable however provided a sufficient concentration of N and duration of exposure which is really not a hard task to achieve in a controlled environment.

Given the logistical problems and notable and potential failures of lethal injection (which is as a pharmacist is quite incredible such cases happen), Nitrogen gas seems like a more humane procedure with a far smaller margin of error if done correctly.

Again, I’m not a particular fan of executions. But I think the best and most compelling argument against it ares the ethics themselves of killing another person, not procedures, especially ones intended to reduce the risk of complications.