Really bad experience with NetGear Orbi mesh

[tomO2013]

So I came down to a broke Orbi mesh this morning where one of the satellites had decided to auto update itself overnight but had apparently bricked itself.

Many attempts to power cycle, hard reset, TFTP the firmware directly to the satellte in recovery, even nmrpflash (netgear remote programming protocol) and no joy whatsoever.

This morning I eventually caved and called the Orbi support rep with my tail between my legs thinking that I might have missed some obvious step - nope I’d done everything text book.

Apparently this has happened before and can happen when a firmware doesn’t fully flash properly.

Ok, no biggie I get these things can happen, how is netgear going to help me RMA or get this repaired??
Nope - ”sorry sir you are a few months outside of your warranty, you will need to buy a new satellite”.

At this point I pushed (friendly and gently) to say that I don’t really like throwing stuff into a landfill and sure for a mesh system that cost me 2000 dollars where I pay a subscription to Netgear armor, they would have a means to repair this system - the mesh itself is still on sale today in best buy and on their website?!

Nope - ”sorry sir, you need to buy a new satellite, have a nice day”

Appreciating that I am **just** (and only just) outside of my warranty window, for such a premium, expensive device I’m just flabbergasted that there is such a ’planned obsolescence‘ approach to the device. I’m staring to understand Michael Douglas’ character in falling down a little more when he tried to order a breakfast sandwich in McDonalds 3 minutes past the cutoff!


In any case, I’ve cancelled my NetGear subscription - sharing here in case anybody else is considering or contemplating this mesh router system. Their support plain sucks if you have problems beyond ‘buy a new one’

Right now I’m contemplating for the cost of the overpriced individual Orbi satellite ( CAD$900 bucks) I’m not far off a modern TPLink mesh with Wifi 7 or a standalone router that supports easy mesh and get compliant easy mesh range extender that could put this into a mesh setup.

Also open to hear other mesh setups/suggestion or router + extender mesh setups (easy mesh, one mesh, mesh AI (asus) , etc….)

Unfortunately my house wasn’t CAT5 cabled well and retrofitting it would mean a lot of dry wall.

It’s a largish house with 2800 feet above grade and a basement floor of 1700 feet (all told closer to 4500 -5000 sq feet + garage detatched from the main house.

Contenders right now are

+TP Link BE900 mesh (2 pod mesh)
+ Eero 7 max mesh (2 pod)
+ Velo 7 from linksys
+ TP Link Archer BE900 + TP link range extender (and put RE into the smart easy mesh mode)


Keen to get any ideas you may have.

 

[quarkysg]

Have you tried one of those power line network adapters? If your home power lines are good, it would be another option to setup your network at home.

 

[dada_dave]

We have a smaller house than you, but like you we didn’t have Cat5. We decided that paying for Cat5 (and the subsequent dry wall) was worth the investment* and we just rent the cheap mesh system from our service provider (AT&T) for wireless connections around the house, but where the satellite routers are plugged into the network. The combo works quite well for us.

One possibility since your space is so big is just to install Cat5 in a few key areas? Then use mesh router system to cover the rest? Of course one line of thinking is if you’re going to do to start opening walls anywhere you go all the way, but you don’t have to.

*We have the advantage that we have a crawl space attic throughout the entire space where the wires could be run through and dropped down, as long as the installer’s drill didn’t slip (which happened), the effect on the dry wall was relatively minimal. I was bracing myself for worse repairs and costs. In the end it was actually quite reasonable.

 

[casperes1996]

Couple years ago SanDisk sent me a new ssd for free a year after warranty expired because it was the controller chip in it that died not the nand and they thought that was bizarre and not expect wear on the product. One of the best customer service experiences I’ve had.

 

[Eric]

I tried Orbi a few years ago and it didn't work out for me, just too spotty and didn't deliver on what it claimed to. I now have Deco and am very happy with it, a great system to spread satellites around the house. I still have a Cat 5 running for my main computer because I have to handle huge video files all the time but for most of the general stuff the Deco rocks.

 

[fischersd]

I've run Cat 5 in a lot of the places that I've owned, rented. It's pretty easy. If you have a false ceiling or open ceiling in the basement, all the better. Just figure out which direction the beams are running in and map out how you can get the cables from point A to point B. You'll need a stud finder, fishing snake (get the wire one), a reel of plastic twine, and a Dremmel (or rotary tool of your choice). If you cut the holes in your drywall across two studs, then you can easily re-attach the cut-out piece with a few drywall screws and a minimal amount of mud.
Dish soap is the best lubricant to get your cable through the walls with minimal friction. You can also snag a tone generator and wand if you're trying to find the path of existing cabling.

You can also use duct work to run cables if it follows a path that is convenient.

You might also be able to use existing cabling. If the installers were lazy and didn't staple it in place, you might be able to use the existing Cat 3 or RG6 cabling to pull a leader line (plastic twine), then use that line to pull your Cat 5, along with another line of twine.

ALWAYS run extra line(s) of twine - so as technology changes, you can run more/replacement cables.

Oh - and when you cut out a section of drywall, if you don't have the original paint info, take that cut-out to Home Depot to have them match it. Heh. Make sure you also match the gloss or you'll be painting the whole wall.

Oh - and if all of your walls are filled with spray foam insulation, you're likely best just to carve channels in the drywall, then mud over the cable or conduit after the fact (you could get 1/2"-3/4" PVC and run conduit in the walls behind your channel that you back-fill with drywall mud to future-proof your run.

I'm sure there's other things I've missed.

 

[AG_PhamD]

I’m a big fan of Ubiquiti’s UniFi line. Great hardware, reasonably priced, software gets updated routinely. It’s a bit more sophisticated setup than consumer grade MESH but it’s been simplified to make things easy, but offers a lot of customization if you want.

I’ve installed UniFi originally at my small business, then my parents house ft, then my house, then my parents beach house + rental properties.

Most UniFi products are PoE but can operate as a mesh network, there are some are better designed to not be hardwired into the wall.

Do you have a basement or attic space? This makes running CAT5/6 very easy. Especially with UniFi’s ceiling mounted units that look like smoke detectors. I think hardwired with multiple access points is always preferable to MESH. (Especially true if you’re in an environment with a lot of other wifi networks)

Depending on the construction of your house you may not need a lot of access points. My parents house is just under 6000sq ft and only needed 2 access points (wood construction, built in 2000). On the other hand my small biz’s property (residential psych facility) is built like a faraday cage with brick and stone and wood and metal lathe- we have 8 AP’s over 8-9,000 Sq ft and a 9th for outdoor service.

$2000 for Netgear is insane.


Also important to keep in mind unless you’re doing huge local file transfers WiFi speed isn’t as important as you might think and advertised speeds are under ideal conditions. Plus many devices don’t have the capability for the fastest speeds. Plus anything involving the internet is limited by your ISP speed. And even if you’re paying for 1gbps+ service, most of the servers you’re dealing with are not giving you that bandwith. A good rule of thumb is 5mbps for HD streaming video or 25mbps for 4k per device. It’s crazy what ISPs says you needs. TLDR- don’t feel pressured to buy the fastest speed WiFi hardware unless you actually need. If you’re not sure, you probably don’t.

 

[throAU]

Yeah I have an orbi mesh setup, mine is still fine, touch wood (RBK752). But its out of warranty, cost a bit and if that's their attitude then I guess I'm going for Ubiquiti when it dies.

Shame, because the performance is great and for the most part the software is friendly.

 

[Citysnaps]

I’m a big fan of Ubiquiti’s UniFi line. Great hardware, reasonably priced, software gets updated routinely. It’s a bit more sophisticated setup than consumer grade MESH but it’s been simplified to make things easy, but offers a lot of customization if you want.

I’ve installed UniFi originally at my small business, then my parents house ft, then my house, then my parents beach house + rental properties.

Most UniFi products are PoE but can operate as a mesh network, there are some are better designed to not be hardwired into the wall.

Do you have a basement or attic space? This makes running CAT5/6 very easy. Especially with UniFi’s ceiling mounted units that look like smoke detectors. I think hardwired with multiple access points is always preferable to MESH. (Especially true if you’re in an environment with a lot of other wifi networks)

Depending on the construction of your house you may not need a lot of access points. My parents house is just under 6000sq ft and only needed 2 access points (wood construction, built in 2000). On the other hand my small biz’s property (residential psych facility) is built like a faraday cage with brick and stone and wood and metal lathe- we have 8 AP’s over 8-9,000 Sq ft and a 9th for outdoor service.

$2000 for Netgear is insane.


Also important to keep in mind unless you’re doing huge local file transfers WiFi speed isn’t as important as you might think and advertised speeds are under ideal conditions. Plus many devices don’t have the capability for the fastest speeds. Plus anything involving the internet is limited by your ISP speed. And even if you’re paying for 1gbps+ service, most of the servers you’re dealing with are not giving you that bandwith. A good rule of thumb is 5mbps for HD streaming video or 25mbps for 4k per device. It’s crazy what ISPs says you needs. TLDR- don’t feel pressured to buy the fastest speed WiFi hardware unless you actually need. If you’re not sure, you probably don’t.

I also created and installed a system of Ubiquiti Unifi products... router, switches, and APs. All running trouble free 24/7 for five years on a Mac Mini without a hitch. I do want to move to an Apple silicon Mac Mini when the next one comes out.

For home automation I use Indigo Domotics software, with SecuritySpy software handling and controlling my outdoor IP cameras. Both run on MacOS and are excellent products with loads of features and flexibility, with great support and frequent updates. Their customer forums are great for exchanging tips and ideas.

 

[tomO2013]

So I ended up purchasing two monstrosity routers from Asus - https://www.asus.com/networking-iot-servers/wifi-routers/asus-gaming-routers/rt-be96u/

I've configured two of them in AI mesh.

I purchased from bestbuy so that I could take them up on their returns policy if it doesn't work out.

So far ... not bad - certainly the amount of options (guest wifi, promotional wifi access, create multiple VPN and segmented network domains is awesome. Certainly a step up in terms of software capability and configurability - it's bordering on serious enterprise level options.

The bad - my wife thinks they look butt ugly and not very happy right now. This was not an aspect that I had honestly thought much about. They may be going back

 

[AG_PhamD]

I also created and installed a system of Ubiquiti Unifi products... router, switches, and APs. All running trouble free 24/7 for five years on a Mac Mini without a hitch. I do want to move to an Apple silicon Mac Mini when the next one comes out.

For home automation I use Indigo Domotics software, with SecuritySpy software handling and controlling my outdoor IP cameras. Both run on MacOS and are excellent products with loads of features and flexibility, with great support and frequent updates. Their customer forums are great for exchanging tips and ideas.

I love the simplicity of UniFi. I virtually had no networking experience when I got into it… we were opening up my company and we needed a solution to handle a 26 bed program + staff. The cheapest quote (almost 10 years ago was $6000 I believe). I taught myself UniFi, setup multiple VLANs, VPN, etc. Hardware cost was under $1500, though I recently upgraded everything except the 24 PoE Switch.

I’ve toyed with the idea of UniFi Access Control but it feels a little half baked from what I can tell, especially considering there’s no battery backup unless you buy their $1000 access controller or super expensive UPS. Their phone system seems a bit half baked too… them building every idea they come up with and branching out is risky.

My parents house has UniFi connect. I’m considering installing at their second house and neighboring rental property’s (already l using UniFi, paid for itself quickly only needing 1 cable bill now). There has always been squatters in the off season (beach community), but with all the hype in the media my parents want an extra sense of security.. I like the simplicity of UniFi but it does leave a lot of customization to be desired. Unifi cameras thought for the most part are mediocre, overpriced, poorly designed, and not visually appealing. Nor do the white ones hold up well outside. It’s also a lot of money for cameras you can’t use anywhere else (ie UniFi kills the line) and that doesn’t allow 3rd party cameras, even by paying a license fee. But the fact you’re not hit with subscriptions or licensing costs is really nice.

Alternatively I’m considering using Axis cameras and Axis Companion. You can save the footage to the cam’s SD card and access remotely without having to port forward or vpn. It’s pretty limited and Axis cameras are so expensive, but you get a level of privacy you can’t get from the Chinese cameras or consumer lines like Ring. They are also extremely high quality and are very reliable.

I had UniFi Protect at my home for some time but ended up switching back Synology + Axis cameras.

At the time of installing my biz’s security cameras (another self taught skill) UniFi Protect wasn’t out- they had a previous system that was getting killed off. I was interested in security spy (even more so once silcon macs came out) but with so many cameras the licensing costs would have been pretty high versus $75 Blue Iris which is extremely comprehensive. Plus an old i5-8500 PC easily handled our needs. You really don’t need nearly as much power as you’d think, especially if you tune everything correctly with resolution, fps, and sub stream utilization. You probably don’t need 4k in hallways or 30fps in most normal situations. It’s interesting how camera companies and some sketchy installers try to upsell. The biggest problem I have with Blue Iris is the Windows operating system and its auto updates causing problem and Good luck disabling them in Window 11.

 

[Citysnaps]

I love the simplicity of UniFi. I virtually had no networking experience when I got into it…

Sounds like you got a nice system going!

I also had no experience with networking, but seemed to have picked it up pretty well with everything working. During house construction I did all the ethernet cabling for jacks in each room and for the three ceiling WiFi access points before the sheet rock went up in the interior since I was already spending a lot of time there managing and making decisions, paying bills, planning and executing my landscape plan, etc. I also ran a lot of cables to outside walls for POE cameras.

All of the cabling ends up in a 24 jack patch panel sitting in a small rack in what was supposed to be a coat closet, along with a couple switches, router, and an Intel MacMini (which will be an AS MacMini someday).

The Mini runs both SecuritySpy for the cameras and Indigo Domotics home automation software (both highly recommended). They work well together and have a ton of flexibility being able to set up action schedules and for expandability with more cameras or home automation stuff (if needed).

I can control the cams and HA from my laptop at home, or from my iPhone anywhere when I'm away (or at home), with a UI I designed allowing me to view (and arm) the cameras (normally running on an automatic schedule), turn indoor/outdoor lights off and on, turn on a loud siren if needed, speak/listen to and view whoever is ringing my doorbell, etc.

Doing it myself was fun learning as I was going. And most importantly, it's fully customized to my requirements and needs. I also probably saved a good deal of money not having to hire someone.

 

[diamond.g]

I love the simplicity of UniFi. I virtually had no networking experience when I got into it… we were opening up my company and we needed a solution to handle a 26 bed program + staff. The cheapest quote (almost 10 years ago was $6000 I believe). I taught myself UniFi, setup multiple VLANs, VPN, etc. Hardware cost was under $1500, though I recently upgraded everything except the 24 PoE Switch.

I’ve toyed with the idea of UniFi Access Control but it feels a little half baked from what I can tell, especially considering there’s no battery backup unless you buy their $1000 access controller or super expensive UPS. Their phone system seems a bit half baked too… them building every idea they come up with and branching out is risky.

My parents house has UniFi connect. I’m considering installing at their second house and neighboring rental property’s (already l using UniFi, paid for itself quickly only needing 1 cable bill now). There has always been squatters in the off season (beach community), but with all the hype in the media my parents want an extra sense of security.. I like the simplicity of UniFi but it does leave a lot of customization to be desired. Unifi cameras thought for the most part are mediocre, overpriced, poorly designed, and not visually appealing. Nor do the white ones hold up well outside. It’s also a lot of money for cameras you can’t use anywhere else (ie UniFi kills the line) and that doesn’t allow 3rd party cameras, even by paying a license fee. But the fact you’re not hit with subscriptions or licensing costs is really nice.

Alternatively I’m considering using Axis cameras and Axis Companion. You can save the footage to the cam’s SD card and access remotely without having to port forward or vpn. It’s pretty limited and Axis cameras are so expensive, but you get a level of privacy you can’t get from the Chinese cameras or consumer lines like Ring. They are also extremely high quality and are very reliable.

I had UniFi Protect at my home for some time but ended up switching back Synology + Axis cameras.

At the time of installing my biz’s security cameras (another self taught skill) UniFi Protect wasn’t out- they had a previous system that was getting killed off. I was interested in security spy (even more so once silcon macs came out) but with so many cameras the licensing costs would have been pretty high versus $75 Blue Iris which is extremely comprehensive. Plus an old i5-8500 PC easily handled our needs. You really don’t need nearly as much power as you’d think, especially if you tune everything correctly with resolution, fps, and sub stream utilization. You probably don’t need 4k in hallways or 30fps in most normal situations. It’s interesting how camera companies and some sketchy installers try to upsell. The biggest problem I have with Blue Iris is the Windows operating system and its auto updates causing problem and Good luck disabling them in Window 11.

Why did you stop using Protect?

 

[AG_PhamD]

Why did you stop using Protect?

I stopped using UniFi Protect at my home in Boston. It’s basically a brownstone apartment building and we have a 2 car garage attached in the rear. In the back is an alley with are other garages and outdoor parking. So basically I had twos UniFi Bullet cams- one on either side of our garage , crossing each-other to basically have 180 degree coverage as well as basically allowing each camera to monitor the other against tampering.

I have these cameras setup to record 24/7 with no alerts. They’re basically there to have the ability to have a record if something bad happens. It’s an urban area so it’s not like I have a backyard to monitor for intruders or whatever. I don’t have alerts at all, let alone any automation.

Basically there’s not a serious reason to switch. I mainly switched things up because my sister and I inherited my grandfather’s beach house in Rhode Island and I figured UniFi would work better there because of its more convenient remote access. Synology actually offers more customizatio btw. This house is in the same the neighborhood of my parents properties that all share the same UniFi network since they’re all next to each other (fiber connections between houses). My grandfathers house unfortunately is not close enough (maybe it could be finagled with neighbor permission). Anyways, I figured I’d setup the UniFi cameras here to monitor things while we’re away (most of the time).

In Boston, having better quality cameras, particularly at night, would is useful- especially for reading license plates ie someone backs their car into my garage. IR illumination can reflect off license plates making them impossible to read. In Rhode Island for the time being it’s more about keeping a general eye on things that would notify me to call the police if needed. We aren’t down there during the week.

The other problem I occasionally had with my UniFi bullets is lens fogging. This will probably be a problem in RI come to think of it. My Axis cameras I’m using now have built in heaters to prevent fogging. Most people probably don’t even know such features exist. Long term I’m still considering options for all the houses down there.

While not really relevant in either of this situations at the time being, Unifi has far less customization vs other options. Like I would probably not use Protect at my company due to limitations. I’ve actually considered moving the protect setup from my parents house to RI.

Also, I wish UniFi would ditch the white plastic, especially the outdoor cameras. My parents house’s Unfii cams are only a few years old and some are pretty yellow. BTW I also like the the fact my old Synology NVR has an HDMI port to make live viewing easy. UniFi makes you buy a $200 adapter or rely on a computer or tablet.

If you start to learn looking all the different cameras available, you begin to realize UniFi cameras are very limiting. Most their standard cameras are 102° max FOV which is mediocre IMO for many applications. The G4 and G5 Bullets have like 84 and 86° FOV- that’s absolutely atrocious. In practical terms this means you may need more cameras or will just have to suffer with a cut off field of view. The Flex cameras have only have 2 axis adjustment rather than 3. This severely limits install flexibility (or your image is not level because you can’t rotate the camera). Mounting options across the board are subpar and frankly their cameras don't look that good imo- overly conspicuous or cheap looking. Plus the white casing yellows severely outdoors.

What if you want an outdoor rated fixed dome- nope? Maybe audio I/O ports an HDMI output. Want a varifocal lens or 4k resolution? $400+ min. $1800 for a PTZ cam that lacks basic functions (even years later now) is nuts. 4k yet only 24fps max (fine but for the cost…). It looks poorly designed and omg- a 1 year warranty?! Most legit brands now offer 5- including the commercial grade Chinese OEMs.

But to be clear, I think UniFi Protect is one of the best proconsumer-small company level security solution. It’s easy to setup and maintain. I am not thrilled their AI detection requires internet service these days- not surprising with protect. Many ONVIF cams have onboard ai/machine learning/analytics (which has its benefits beyond relying on the cloud). Using ONVIF cameras and VMS software offers a lot more flexibility and you’re not reliant on Ubiquiti maintaining the system- but isn’t nearly as straightforward and convenient. Hikvision and Dahua and their rebrands makes some very nice cameras and are an often fraction of the price vs most non-Chinese brands- I personally will not buy these due to ethics and security concerns.

UniFi has a bit of a tendency to release Vaporware or end support of products leaving customers in the dark, but they’re not the first (and already did this with their old cctv system). This is an inherent problem with cameras that require cloud services for full functionality- though protect isn’t nearly as reliant as things like ring. So if you’re looking to make a big investment, keep that in mind.