Smart Thermostat Install Assistance…

[AG_PhamD]

I am attempting to replace the existing thermostats in my businesses building. I am using the standard Google Nest Thermostats (not the Nest E or Learning T-stats)

Just for a quick background, there is a hot water boiler (oil powered) located in the basement that provides hot water for the building. On each floor (4 total) their is an independent, single zone, air handling unit with its own thermostat that handles the heat and AC (with its own independent AC compressor unit, located either on the roof or behind the building). It’s my understanding hot water from the boiler is used to create the hot air for the 4 air handling units which is then forced through the ducts- aka a “Hydronic” heating system. Best to think of each floor as it’s own independent system except they all get hot water from the same boiler.

Each existing thermostat has the following wires:

• R- 24v power from transformer
• W- Primary heat cell relay
• G- Fan relay
• Y- Primary cooling relay
• **Rc (connected with a jumper from R)- Power from 24v heat relay
  • (The Neat thermostat does not have an space for an Rh connector, it’s my understanding the thermostat will automatically provide the jump internally.)

This setup has no C-wire going to the thermostat. Google claims it’s not necessarily needed and that the thermostat does work. Not sure if maybe this is part of the issue. These thermostats are located on the other side of the wall from the air handlers, so rewiring would be quite easy, if I know what I’m doing.

My problem is, if I crank up the heat it does not turn on. But if I turn on the AC, the AC compressor and fan turn on perfectly. If I go back to heat mode, turn it up, and manually turn on the fan (limited to 12hrs max), it seems like the heat may be working as hotter than ambient air seems to be discharged from the vents.

For reference:
Old thermostat wiring:


Air Handler Wiring:

(Note Black C-wire and White Y-wire seem to go elsewhere… maybe to the AC compressor?)
Nest Thermostat Wiring:



In the meantime I guess I’ll check the wires to make sure their adequately connected.

Any suggestions from anyone with experience with these?

 

[ouimetnick]

Wish I could offer some suggestions, but all I can think of is try asking on Reddit's r/HVAC or r/Nest. I had issues with my Ecobee, and the folks on r/ecobee were a huge help.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Wish I could offer some suggestions, but all I can think of is try asking on Reddit's r/HVAC or r/Nest. I had issues with my Ecobee, and the folks on r/ecobee were a huge help.

I talked to a family friend who owns an HVAC company.

I had l the Thermostat configured for forced air as the heat type and oil for the heat source (other source options were gas, propane/LP, electric, and geothermal).

For whatever reason, because the heat uses oil to heat water which is then pumped to the air handler where it used to heat the air that is then blown through the ducts…. oil evidently was incorrect selection. The appropriate option was electric or all things, which I never would have guessed. But the expert knew the problem and solution immediately, I’m quite impressed.

I’ve got to say, HVAC wiring is basically witchcraft to me. I have little understanding of how it all works. I’m glad someone does though.

I’m not loving the Google Home App which this version of Nest is tied to. I have a Honeywell Lyric at home that is much more intuitive. The Neat also is missing some features I expected it to have, so I very well may be choosing another product.

I bought these 4 Nests subsidized through the power utility for $9.99 each (vs $130 retail), each with a free google home mini included (that I subsequently gave to some of my employees). I couldn’t really pass up such a good deal.

 

[Herdfan]

I’m not loving the Google Home App which this version of Nest is tied to.

That whole thing is a mess. I have some Nest thermostats running off the "Nest" app. But the "Nest" cameras at my mom's house have to work off the Google Home App. WTF?

 

[AG_PhamD]

That whole thing is a mess. I have some Nest thermostats running off the "Nest" app. But the "Nest" cameras at my mom's house have to work off the Google Home App. WTF?

I guess it’s kinda par for the course with google- creating a bunch of disjointed and competing products. I’m a little afraid google will repeat their history of stopping software updates and then all of a sudden one day announce they’re ending support entirely.

 

[Nycturne]

I guess it’s kinda par for the course with google- creating a bunch of disjointed and competing products. I’m a little afraid google will repeat their history of stopping software updates and then all of a sudden one day announce they’re ending support entirely.

Yeup. They’ve been trying to push my Nest devices over to Google accounts, which they don’t allow because my only Google account is a GSuite account.

I’m honestly slowly backing away from the ecosystem, despite the fact that the Nest ecosystem has been (mostly) good to me.

 

[Herdfan]

Yeup. They’ve been trying to push my Nest devices over to Google accounts, which they don’t allow because my only Google account is a GSuite account.

I’m honestly slowly backing away from the ecosystem, despite the fact that the Nest ecosystem has been (mostly) good to me.

Same here. About every 5th or so login I get the message to move them over.

I am in the process of creating new google accounts by location. So my house is now XXXmainst@gmail.com. I am putting every device tied to this house under that account, so when we sell, I can simply "give" the new owner that account. So that is my Nest account, my Lutron account and a security system account. Will make it much easier.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Yeup. They’ve been trying to push my Nest devices over to Google accounts, which they don’t allow because my only Google account is a GSuite account.

I’m honestly slowly backing away from the ecosystem, despite the fact that the Nest ecosystem has been (mostly) good to me.

EcoBee kinda seems to be slowly going defunct. Generac, the generator company, apparently bought them out recently. You can’t buy remote sensors and evidently there is very little suppprt.

I have a Honeywell Lyric T5 smart thermostat in my home- not the fanciest but works great, no issues. The HVAC guy I talked to said Honeywell is preferred brand. I suppose it’s best to stick with the company that has been making thermostats and control systems for decades rather than a startup or some tech company side project.

These Nests cost me $10 each through the utility company, so we’ll see where it goes. It would be a different story if I had paid full retail.

 

[Nycturne]

EcoBee kinda seems to be slowly going defunct. Generac, the generator company, apparently bought them out recently. You can’t buy remote sensors and evidently there is very little suppprt.

I have a Honeywell Lyric T5 smart thermostat in my home- not the fanciest but works great, no issues. The HVAC guy I talked to said Honeywell is preferred brand. I suppose it’s best to stick with the company that has been making thermostats and control systems for decades rather than a startup or some tech company side project.

These Nests cost me $10 each through the utility company, so we’ll see where it goes. It would be a different story if I had paid full retail.

Yup, I'm not actively ditching Nest for these reasons. But it really feels like Google is determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here. So when I find a good replacement for bits I've gotten, I'll jump.

Doorbell camera is the first to switch, I think.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Yup, I'm not actively ditching Nest for these reasons. But it really feels like Google is determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here. So when I find a good replacement for bits I've gotten, I'll jump.

Doorbell camera is the first to switch, I think.

My preferred camera system is the UniFi line by Ubiquity (as well as awesome networking equipment). It’s expensive but you have on-site storage, no monthly fees, but can still access the cameras remotely. My parents have these cameras and doorbell at their house, as well as their networking system. I suppose the drawback is is it’s all PoE, no wireless, so that can be limiting (except for the doorbell, which uses the doorbell power supply and WiFi). This is more of a prosumer/small business grade system though.

I think Ring and Arlo are probably the best consumer options with wireless cameras. Arlo has the benefit of on-site storage but is kinda pricey- I’m not a big fan of having to pay for cloud storage, especially with no local storage- otherwise you’re SOL if the WiFi is down. Ring just has the bulk of the market so I wouldn’t be worried about support dropping off.

And none of these companies are owned by China or use Chinese servers, making them more secure options than some of the other options out there.