Writing a Book

Eric

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I know we have some literary types around here and thought I would mention this to get some thoughts. I am going to be writing a photography book, it will contain photos from specific sites I've selected and those images will contain anecdotes from the area.

I had thought about self-publishing and while that's still a consideration, I'm taking my time to reach out and speak with publishers of books I've already enjoyed reading. I've gotten some interest and I think that my name getting out in the local area is one of the reasons, hoping to find out more next week.

Anyone here written a book or published in any way? Would love to know your experiences and hear any advice you have to offer.
 

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I've self published a few photography journals via MagCloud, which does print on demand and fulfillment.

Engaging a traditional book publisher/printer can be very costly due to minimum order requirements; say 700 or 1,000 books minimum. Should you want to go that way, making book dummies for evaluation/feel via MagCloud is a good idea; before committing the big $$$$$ for a traditionally printed book order, and then having a 1,000 book pile in your garage with errors or that you don't quite like.

I've also done a few artsy handmade books; but that's more a labor of love.
 

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I'm a published author. (History).

I recall that I contacted around 30 publishers who published works in the areas of the sort of history I had written about, - by phone - wondering whether they would have any interest in the topic and in taking a look at my book.

Ten of them expressed an interest in (seeing, reading) my work, and thus, requested a sample chapter (all postage and photo-copying costs were met by me - this was pre-internet, or dawn of internet in the academic and publishing world), which I sent off to them, with the usual covering letter, etc.

Of those ten, three were sufficiently enthusiastic to request the entire book for a detailed internal review and discussion as to whether they ought to proceed further.

Out of those remaining three, one publisher actually offered me a contract and proceeded to publish my book, - it was a beautiful production, with meticulous production values - which eventually came out (I myself did - I chose to do this, - the final additional proofing - with the printer's proofs - with my brother, as I was - and am - anal about precision, facts, and errors, and, moreover I had added some further, extra, material - in fact, it comprised an additional chapter - to the final published version of the book), around a year later, when it finally hit the shelves, received excellent reviews and sold exceedingly well (for a history book).

In hindsight, I'm extremely glad that my parents lived long enough to enjoy the experience.
 
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Eric

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I'm a published author. (History).

I recall that I contacted around 30 publishers of the sort of history I had written about, - by phone - wondering whether they would have any interest in the topic.

Ten of them were interested, and requested a sample chapter (all postage and photo-copying costs were met by me - this was pre-internet, or dawn of internet in the academic and publishing world), which I sent off to them, with the usual covering letter, etc.

Of those ten, three were sufficiently enthusiastic to request the entire book for a detailed internal review and discussion as to whether they ought to proceed further. One of those three offered me a contract and proceeded to actually publish my book, - it was a beautiful production, with meticulous production values - which came out (I did the final additional proofing - with the printer's proofs - with my brother, as I was - and am - anal about facts, and errors, and, moreover I had added some more material - the best part of an additional chapter - to the final published version of the book), around a year later, when it finally hit the shelves, received excellent reviews and sold exceedingly well (for a history book).

In hindsight, I'm extremely glad that my parents lived long enough to enjoy the experience.
Thanks for sharing your experience, it's good information and I'm glad it worked out well for you.

I have been in talks with a publisher (also primarily into history) and they had proposed a very specific project for me that I'll be taking up. We've written back and forth several times and finally had a meeting to lay out the path forward, I'll be submitting and outline with some sample images and a table of contents, from there it will go to the editorial board for review, if approved we'll be moving forward on a one year contract.

Fingers crossed, I'll follow up.
 

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Thanks for sharing your experience, it's good information and I'm glad it worked out well for you.

I have been in talks with a publisher (also primarily into history) and they had proposed a very specific project for me that I'll be taking up. We've written back and forth several times and finally had a meeting to lay out the path forward, I'll be submitting and outline with some sample images and a table of contents, from there it will go to the editorial board for review, if approved we'll be moving forward on a one year contract.

Fingers crossed, I'll follow up.
The very best of luck with it.
 

Eric

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Finally got around to getting this all put together and self-published through Amazon KDP, it's paperback, 27 pages and currently going through review. So far I have no marketing strategy so I really don't expect any sales but want to get a feel for it and what to expect.

Price is going to be $8.95 with a 100% markup and I will play around with both Kindle and hardback copies but I like that the price points are reasonable, I tried with Blurb (Bookwright) and cheapest I can get it out for is like $49.00 and nobody's going to buy it at that crazy price. I'll just stick with Amazon as they're the experts.

We'll see how it goes.
 

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Finally got around to getting this all put together and self-published through Amazon KDP, it's paperback, 27 pages and currently going through review. So far I have no marketing strategy so I really don't expect any sales but want to get a feel for it and what to expect.

Price is going to be $8.95 with a 100% markup and I will play around with both Kindle and hardback copies but I like that the price points are reasonable, I tried with Blurb (Bookwright) and cheapest I can get it out for is like $49.00 and nobody's going to buy it at that crazy price. I'll just stick with Amazon as they're the experts.

We'll see how it goes.

Congratulations - that's huge! And was no doubt a lot of work getting to this point.


"So far I have no marketing strategy so I really don't expect any sales but want to get a feel for it and what to expect."

I might have some thoughts on that if your interested... If so, may I ask what sort of outcome you'd like to see? Personal satisfaction in creating a photobook? Recognition? $$$? Giving back to the community/city? Marketing your photography? Local photo exhibitions? Working with and helping a charitable organization? To help market potential photo workshops or walks you might want to do in the future?

There's likely more. I'm just tossing out some random possibilities.
 

Eric

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Congratulations - that's huge! And was no doubt a lot of work getting to this point.


"So far I have no marketing strategy so I really don't expect any sales but want to get a feel for it and what to expect."

I might have some thoughts on that if your interested... If so, may I ask what sort of outcome you'd like to see? Personal satisfaction in creating a photobook? Recognition? $$$? Giving back to the community/city? Marketing your photography? Local photo exhibitions? Working with and helping a charitable organization? To help market potential photo workshops or walks you might want to do in the future?

There's likely more. I'm just tossing out some random possibilities.
Good feedback here, it’s appreciated. So my goal will be to market to local photographers, which won’t come until I have the book online, dialed in and fully ready to go.

I have over 6K followers on IG and am pretty well known in a lot of the local online SF photography groups with Reddit and FB, all channels I can utilize when I decide to plug it.

So it’s definitely niche both on locale and target audience. Profit will be minimal as getting my name out there is key for me at this point. I have ideas for other local books as well down the road if this goes well.
 

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Good feedback here, it’s appreciated. So my goal will be to market to local photographers, which won’t come until I have the book online, dialed in and fully ready to go.

I have over 6K followers on IG and am pretty well known in a lot of the local online SF photography groups with Reddit and FB, all channels I can utilize when I decide to plug it.

So it’s definitely niche both on locale and target audience. Profit will be minimal as getting my name out there is key for me at this point. I have ideas for other local books as well down the road if this goes well.

Your book photos were all made in SF? How many photos in the book?
 

Eric

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Your book photos were all made in SF? How many photos in the book?
Yes, around 30 of them and I include the location for each shot, this is why I have “A photographers guide” in the title along with San Francisco. A lot of people both local and traveling are looking for the most scenic views and locations so that’s what I focused on.
 

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Yes, around 30 of them and I include the location for each shot, this is why I have “A photographers guide” in the title along with San Francisco. A lot of people both local and traveling are looking for the most scenic views and locations so that’s what I focused on.

Sounds interesting!

Here's a thought...

Hit up a SF cafe to have a photo exhibition with an opening reception, say on a Friday evening. Maybe put up a dozen or so of your photos (framed) on the wall that represent some kind of SF theme. Publicize* the heck on the opening. At the opening reception, have a pile of books people can purchase. Also offer your prints on the wall for sale (unframed or framed). I've done this a bunch of times in the past (just once for a photobook - more on that later), at cafes in the Mission, Financial District, Tenderloin, SOMA. Also did a talk and photo presentation at San Francisco's downtown Apple Store.

* IG, FB, TB, etc. Also arrange a meeting with a SF Chron editor and show up with a press release and make a case to publish your project and opening reception (with location, date, and time). That worked great for Tenderloin USA, a photo project and book I did with another photographer 10 years ago. Not being interested that much in the money, we arranged for all book proceeds to go to a SF youth charity called Larkin Street Youth Services. The Chron gave us two pages of coverage, including the front page of their Datebook section. The proceeds Larkin Street Youth Services received were very substantial from book sales. No doubt far more than if we did not hook up with Larkin Street and just did it on our own.
 

Eric

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Sounds interesting!

Here's a thought...

Hit up a SF cafe to have a photo exhibition with an opening reception, say on a Friday evening. Maybe put up a dozen or so of your photos (framed) on the wall that represent some kind of SF theme. Publicize* the heck on the opening. At the opening reception, have a pile of books people can purchase. Also offer your prints on the wall for sale (unframed or framed). I've done this a bunch of times in the past (just once for a photobook - more on that later), at cafes in the Mission, Financial District, Tenderloin, SOMA. Also did a talk and photo presentation at San Francisco's downtown Apple Store.
This is a great idea. I will consider the best venue to approach here where I think they will want to work with me, at the moment I'm not sure who that would be but I do have notable followers from established businesses around the city so maybe I can find something there.

* IG, FB, TB, etc. Also arrange a meeting with a SF Chron editor and show up with a press release and make a case to publish your project and opening reception (with location, date, and time). That worked great for Tenderloin USA, a photo project and book I did with another photographer 10 years ago. Not being interested that much in the money, we arranged for all book proceeds to go to a SF youth charity called Larkin Street Youth Services. The Chron gave us two pages of coverage, including the front page of their Datebook section. The proceeds Larkin Street Youth Services received were very substantial from book sales. No doubt far more than if we did not hook up with Larkin Street and just did it on our own.
Right, definitely need to come up with some sort of press release and reach out to the right channels.

Appreciate your insight here, it's very helpful. 🙏
 

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Appreciate your insight here, it's very helpful. 🙏

Thanks! Please consider hitting up the Apple SF store for giving a talk about shooting in SF along with a photo presentation. I can see that working out well; talking about good places to shoot, techniques, finding nice light, issues to consider, etc. After the presentation people will hang around and ask questions. It's also good for Apple as it gets people in their store.
 

Eric

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I don't think I can get this thing down to a reasonable enough price for people to buy, when all is said and done and I've cut all the corners to make it as cheap as possible it's still nearly $40 per copy and that's with like a $2 profit. Nobody is going to buy it for that.

I tried Amazon KDP and the copy was so small and crappy that it's like a cheap crappy pamphlet so that's off the table as well.

Until I can get that under control I am not going to market it, I feel like I should talk to a consultant who understands this stuff and how to best handle it. I feel like I have a niche and it would be good to go once I can get this figured out.
 

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I don't think I can get this thing down to a reasonable enough price for people to buy, when all is said and done and I've cut all the corners to make it as cheap as possible it's still nearly $40 per copy and that's with like a $2 profit. Nobody is going to buy it for that.

I tried Amazon KDP and the copy was so small and crappy that it's like a cheap crappy pamphlet so that's off the table as well.

Until I can get that under control I am not going to market it, I feel like I should talk to a consultant who understands this stuff and how to best handle it. I feel like I have a niche and it would be good to go once I can get this figured out.

Sorry to hear that. How many pages (1 sheet of paper = 2 pages)?
 

Eric

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Sorry to hear that. How many pages (1 sheet of paper = 2 pages)?
22 pages with images on both sides, looking around at the Blurb site is looks like a lot of them are in that price range. Wonder if it's just me as I don't really shop for these books but it just seems so expensive.
 

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22 pages with images on both sides, looking around at the Blurb site is looks like a lot of them are in that price range. Wonder if it's just me as I don't really shop for these books but it just seems so expensive.

That would be viewed as 44 pages (it's impressions that count - one sheet of paper = two image impressions; ie 2 pages assuming that sheet of paper is printed on both sides). What I've used in the past is MagCloud, using an 8 1/4 x 10 3/4 magazine format (I call it a journal). If that was acceptable for you the price would be 44pages x $0.20/page + $1.00 for perfect binding = $9.80 per copy ordered by your customers.

MagCloud prints on demand and provides a free fulfillment service (meaning you don't have to order a minimum quantity, and your customers order directly from MagCloud). MagCloud prints a copy and ships directly to your customers.

To that $9.80 cost you can add whatever margin you want, which MagCloud then pays to your account and then monthly disburses to your PayPal account.

There are multiple sizes available at a variety of costs. I still want to make a Sumo book (my term) that's tabloid size at 11" x 14" and wire-o bound (lays flat at 28") but still haven't gotten around to it.

Would something like the above be interesting and work for you?
 
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Eric

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That would be viewed as 44 pages (it's impressions that count - one sheet of paper = two image impressions; ie 2 pages assuming that sheet of paper is printed on both sides). What I've used in the past is MagCloud, using an 8 1/4 x 10 3/4 magazine format (I call it a journal). If that was acceptable for you the price would be 44pages x $0.20/page + $1.00 for perfect binding = $9.80 per copy ordered by your customers.

MagCloud prints on demand and provides a free fulfillment service (meaning you don't have to order a minimum quantity, and your customers order directly from MagCloud). MagCloud prints a copy and ships directly to your customers.

To that $9.80 cost you can add whatever margin you want, which MagCloud then pays to your account and then monthly disburses to your PayPal account.

There are multiple sizes available at a variety of costs. I still want to make a Sumo book (my term) that's tabloid size at 11" x 14" and wire-o bound (lays flat at 28") but still haven't gotten around to it.

Would something like the above be interesting and work for you?
I see, okay in the book description they call it 22 pages but that makes sense. You can get a magazine style for much less, is that what you're referring to? The other options are paperback and hardcover, those cost considerably more. I'll take a look into magCloud though and see if I can find a good fit there, appreciate the tip.
 

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I see, okay in the book description they call it 22 pages but that makes sense. You can get a magazine style for much less, is that what you're referring to? The other options are paperback and hardcover, those cost considerably more. I'll take a look into magCloud though and see if I can find a good fit there, appreciate the tip.

It's worth a shot. What's nice is it's a great and cheap way to make a book dummy (meaning an experiment) to quickly get something physical in your hands that you can flip through, pass around to others for opinions, etc. to see if it makes sense.

Yes, technically it sort of is a magazine. Except the binding is perfect bound instead of stapled (called saddle stitched in the biz). The paper and printing is decent quality, and the front and back covers are thick (but not solid like a book). It's better quality than a magazine. But not a real hardbound book.

Most legit real book printers (not publishers) will want a minimum order quantity; perhaps 750 to 1,000 books.

A book publisher is different. For someone with bankable stature like Fred Lyon or Richard Avedon (both passed away), the publisher will pay the upfront minimum printing costs for a thousand+ books, do the customer fulfillment/shipment of customer orders, etc. and add on a large margin for what they do as they're taking a pretty large risk (obviously not for Richard Avedon).

The important thing is you're out no money to get rolling if you go print-on-demand. That's worked out well for my projects. I once considered engaging a book printer, but the cost of a thousand books was enormous, and I had little confidence that it would be successful. Just the thought and image of having many hundreds of (paid for) unsold books taking up a lot of space in my garage would give me a case of the shakes. :)

A local publisher did hit me and my project partner up for creating a real book that would be sold in a gallery and via mail order. But... they suggested that my partner and I start a Go Fund Me page to help raise money for the up front printing costs. Seriously? Nope. No way would I do that, being the equivalent of begging with a tin cup. We declined.

My humble recommendation: For starters, make a single book dummy using MagCloud as a trial run. You'll need to do your own book layout producing print-ready PDFs, and spend $10 (and $5 shipping) to get one printed. But it will be an invaluable exercise having something real in your hands that you can flip though and think about, and show to others for opinions. Maybe you'll be jazzed and be stoked going forward. Maybe not. Could be the best $15 you've ever spent.
 
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