2019 Mac Pro: The last of the Mohicans (Back on again.)

[Colstan]

The tales of this Mac Pro have become the stuff of legend around here ...

Seeing how I prematurely deleted the entirety of the first post, only hearsay and fables can arise to take its place. That, and I intentionally wrote some of my posts in story form, depending upon the mood I was in.

For just a few minutes last night, as I was re-installing Monterey in recovery mode on my 2016 Intel MBP that wouldn’t boot for some reason, I was thinking of @Colstan as I contemplated buying a Mac Studio to replace the old thing.

We've both been eyeing the Mac Studio for a long while now. It looks like we'll be doing that for some time to come.

 

[Nycturne]

Seeing how I prematurely deleted the entirety of the first post, only hearsay and fables can arise to take its place. That, and I intentionally wrote some of my posts in story form, depending upon the mood I was in.


We've both been eyeing the Mac Studio for a long while now. It looks like we'll be doing that for some time to come.

I’d love a Mac Studio, but it’s hard to justify when the M1 Max MBP has been the only Mac I’ve needed since I got it last November. It’s really just been that good for my needs.

 

[Cmaier]

Seeing how I prematurely deleted the entirety of the first post, only hearsay and fables can arise to take its place. That, and I intentionally wrote some of my posts in story form, depending upon the mood I was in.


We've both been eyeing the Mac Studio for a long while now. It looks like we'll be doing that for some time to come.

Honestly, I might have done it but I can’t help but wonder how the new Mac Pro will differentiate itself from the Studio, and I really want to see what that new Mac Pro ends up being.

 

[Colstan]

By the way, I completely forgot to mention all of the nuance that Apple put into this Mac Pro. A few months ago, long before I had any inkling that I'd have one of these, I did some babysitting over at the Mac Pro forum at MR. There's a lot of angst over the direction Apple Silicon is taking, and some users think that Apple has "betrayed pros", even though nobody has seen the Apple Silicon Mac Pro outside of Apple's skunk works. I often posted links to this forum, mainly @Cmaier's thoughts on the future of the Mac Pro, such as the likelihood of DIMMS, third-party GPUs, etc. It was never well-received, but much to my shock, somebody actually thanked me for linking to Cliff's posts. I had thought this was likely as getting a Mac Pro for $2,000.

I realize that the Mac Pro is on borrowed time, a zombie product, already dead, Apple killed it, it just doesn't realize it yet. I say that as someone who just bought one, but I have no illusions about Apple's plans for the product line and the limited ongoing support the Mac Pro will receive from the company. What "pro users" don't seem to get is that the x86 Mac Pro is a result of Intel's design philosophy, not Apple's. Apple designed the case and the oddball MPX modules, but everything else is a direct result of Intel's work on the niche but relatively high-volume Xeon platform. The Apple Silicon Mac Pro is going to be a niche of a niche.

This brought to mind just how over-engineered the 2019 Mac Pro is. The case is really pretty, a massive hunk of aluminum, with the ventilation holes being developed specifically for airflow. I remember Jony Ive putting on a show for the cameras by pointing it out to Tim Cook, as if he were a child who had no idea what they were. You can get easy access to components, even the ones the user isn't supposed to replace. The PCIe cards are accessible with thumb screws, but you do need a standard phillips head to take off a specific plate; I figured everything would be accessible without tools, not that it is a big deal. One innovation that the PC motherboard and case makers should adopt is a locking mechanism for the PCIe cards. It would make it a lot easier to build a PC. Apple even numbers the steps inside the case as 1-2-3-4 with stickers to replace the graphics card.

Here's kicker, the punch line to this post. I'm sure we're all familiar with the typical internal speaker inside of the average PC, similar to that within the Mac mini. It's there for either the boot chime or to play an error tone. The 2019 Mac Pro was released at a time when Apple had disabled the boot chime, so it was only useful for rare error codes. As I said, the Mac Pro is needlessly elaborate. The internal speaker inside the 2019 Mac Pro has a fully integrated chamber for a functioning subwoofer. Why?

 

[Cmaier]

Here's kicker, the punch line to this post. I'm sure we're all familiar with the typical internal speaker inside of the average PC, similar to that within the Mac mini. It's there for either the boot chime or to play an error tone. The 2019 Mac Pro was released at a time when Apple had disabled the boot chime, so it was only useful for rare error codes. As I said, the Mac Pro is needlessly elaborate. The internal speaker inside the 2019 Mac Pro has a fully integrated chamber for a functioning subwoofer. Why?

If you’re going to beep, the beep should sound awesome.

 

[Colstan]

My tribulations never cease, woe is me! I should have known that injecting a PC part into my Mac existence was going to have an unpleasant outcome. Everything has been fantastic with the Mac Pro itself and what I use it for. If you were to take a look at my computer desk or inside the Mac Pro, every part qualifies as either:

• Built by Apple.
• Co-designed by Apple.
• Designed specifically for the Mac.

Examples of each would include, of course, the Mac Pro engineered and manufactured by Apple. The "Retina" UltraFine monitor which was co-developed by Apple and LG. A third example would be the MX Master 3 mouse which was designed by Logitech with Mac use in mind.

The problem I am having is with the Sonnet 6800 XT GPU. Despite Sonnet's claims, it's just an AMD reference design that they slapped their logo on, and marketed it as designed for the 2019 Mac Pro. This thing is loud, even when under moderate load. The three fans will spin to maximum while just playing a simple RPG title, forget about an FPS. My nearly silent Mac Pro becomes a rocket launcher once I try to use it for anything remotely intensive. It's not just me, I've had other people listen to it, and I know the progression. When I launch a game, they will first say "I just hear a fan noise", but within about 30 seconds they exclaim "it sounds like a jet engine!". I'm surprised that Sonnet, a company that specifically markets toward Mac users, would release a product in this state.

While there are utilities like MSI Afterburner for Windows, none of the fan control programs for the Mac work with a third-party GPU, giving me no control over the fan ramping up to insane decibels. Hence, this graphics card is going back to the retailer. I specifically ordered it from Amazon, because of their easy, free return policy, and I anticipated this potentially being a serious problem. Graphics cards are fickle, they each have their own personality, and this one is temperamental. Also, this probably belongs in the "what's your ailment" section, but I have both tinnitus and hyperacusis. One-third of the population has tinnitus, which is a constant ringing or hissing in the ears. Hyperacusis is a condition where common everyday sounds become unbearably painful, mine being the result of a botched MRI where the plug fell out of my left ear. Hence, a quiet computer is not just desired, but required, in my case.

Even thought the price/performance ratio is bad, Apple sells a W6600X MPX module on their website for $700. Using my sister's education discount as a high-school guidance counselor, it drops down to $630. (Yes, I realize that Apple doesn't usually check for education status, but still it's nice to have those ducks in order.) A regular 6600 XT costs half that price, but a standard reference design 6600 isn't passively cooled. The MPX modules are entirely cooled by the Mac Pro's internal case fans, which are themselves very quiet. I had been beating myself up over missing out on closeout sales on the 6900 XTs, but after experiencing the PC versions first-hand, I've decided it's best to stick with Apple's designs, pricey they may be. As I said, for me it's a health issue, not simply an annoyance issue. The next step up from the W6600X is the W6800X, which is $2,520 after the same education discount. Obviously, I'm not paying more than I spent on the entire Mac Pro just for a graphics card. So, the choice was easy. Maybe at some point in the coming years, if I want a better graphics card, then I can pick up a second-hand 6800 or 6900 MPX module for less. For now, I'll be okay with the W6600X, even with the "Apple tax".

The W6600X has roughly the same GPU performance as the Mac Studio with an M1 Ultra, which is hardly a slouch. It's not an ideal situation, but having a busted ear isn't either. Part of the reason that I am interested in macOS Ventura is the inclusion of "Background Sounds". Right now, I have to play crappy muzak to reduce the annoying hiss created by tinnitus. Similarly, having a passively cooled graphics card is very much desired. Tim Cook was once asked why Apple puts so much engineering resources into accessibility, and his response was "because it's the right thing to do". I'm sure many of the accessibility features that Apple implements are not profitable, but they improve quality of life for many users. Microsoft and the PC companies simply don't give a damn.

I've been trying to explain Apple's design philosophy, and reasons for switching to Apple Silicon from x86, to a "non-tech" friend of mine. I boil it down to the average computer having three conflicting primary metrics: noise, performance, weight. With a PC, you can get maybe two of those, if you are lucky. The average PC laptop using an Intel Molten Lake CPU shows the sort of tradeoffs that need to be done. With Apple Silicon, you can have all three in one device. Apple Silicon allows for a Mac that is silent, performant, and can be included in many form factors, from the slim MacBook Air, all the way up to the next Mac Pro.

This is why I'm never going to build a PC and always have a Mac. Apple controls the entire stack, from the basic microcontrollers that drive I/O, to the SoC at the heart of a Mac, up to the operating system and primary applications. That allows them a certain design freedom that is impossible with a PC that is composed of products engineered by two dozen companies, each of which have different goals. Apple Silicon Macs allow for a vertical integration strategy that Steve Jobs could have only dreamt of for the Mac, and users will benefit greatly from that engineering methodology. If the tradeoff is less expandability and losing access to a handful of PC-only games, then that's a compromise that I'm more than happy to make, particularly if it helps me deal with a physical disability, while still having the highest quality personal computer available.

Anyway, the Sonnet 6800 is going back to Amazon tomorrow, while the W6600X should arrive in a few weeks, if Apple's estimates are to be believed. Even though the price/performance equation isn't a good one, silence isn't just golden, but fundamentally necessary for me.

 

[Cmaier]

My tribulations never cease, woe is me! I should have known that injecting a PC part into my Mac existence was going to have an unpleasant outcome. Everything has been fantastic with the Mac Pro itself and what I use it for. If you were to take a look at my computer desk or inside the Mac Pro, every part qualifies as either:

• Built by Apple.
• Co-designed by Apple.
• Designed specifically for the Mac.

Examples of each would include, of course, the Mac Pro engineered and manufactured by Apple. The "Retina" UltraFine monitor which was co-developed by Apple and LG. A third example would be the MX Master 3 mouse which was designed by Logitech with Mac use in mind.

The problem I am having is with the Sonnet 6800 XT GPU. Despite Sonnet's claims, it's just an AMD reference design that they slapped their logo on, and marketed it as designed for the 2019 Mac Pro. This thing is loud, even when under moderate load. The three fans will spin to maximum while just playing a simple RPG title, forget about an FPS. My nearly silent Mac Pro becomes a rocket launcher once I try to use it for anything remotely intensive. It's not just me, I've had other people listen to it, and I know the progression. When I launch a game, they will first say "I just hear a fan noise", but within about 30 seconds they exclaim "it sounds like a jet engine!". I'm surprised that Sonnet, a company that specifically markets toward Mac users, would release a product in this state.

While there are utilities like MSI Afterburner for Windows, none of the fan control programs for the Mac work with a third-party GPU, giving me no control over the fan ramping up to insane decibels. Hence, this graphics card is going back to the retailer. I specifically ordered it from Amazon, because of their easy, free return policy, and I anticipated this potentially being a serious problem. Graphics cards are fickle, they each have their own personality, and this one is temperamental. Also, this probably belongs in the "what's your ailment" section, but I have both tinnitus and hyperacusis. One-third of the population has tinnitus, which is a constant ringing or hissing in the ears. Hyperacusis is a condition where common everyday sounds become unbearably painful, mine being the result of a botched MRI where the plug fell out of my left ear. Hence, a quiet computer is not just desired, but required, in my case.

Even thought the price/performance ratio is bad, Apple sells a W6600X MPX module on their website for $700. Using my sister's education discount as a high-school guidance counselor, it drops down to $630. (Yes, I realize that Apple doesn't usually check for education status, but still it's nice to have those ducks in order.) A regular 6600 XT costs half that price, but a standard reference design 6600 isn't passively cooled. The MPX modules are entirely cooled by the Mac Pro's internal case fans, which are themselves very quiet. I had been beating myself up over missing out on closeout sales on the 6900 XTs, but after experiencing the PC versions first-hand, I've decided it's best to stick with Apple's designs, pricey they may be. As I said, for me it's a health issue, not simply an annoyance issue. The next step up from the W6600X is the W6800X, which is $2,520 after the same education discount. Obviously, I'm not paying more than I spent on the entire Mac Pro just for a graphics card. So, the choice was easy. Maybe at some point in the coming years, if I want a better graphics card, then I can pick up a second-hand 6800 or 6900 MPX module for less. For now, I'll be okay with the W6600X, even with the "Apple tax".

The W6600X has roughly the same GPU performance as the Mac Studio with an M1 Ultra, which is hardly a slouch. It's not an ideal situation, but having a busted ear isn't either. Part of the reason that I am interested in macOS Ventura is the inclusion of "Background Sounds". Right now, I have to play crappy muzak to reduce the annoying hiss created by tinnitus. Similarly, having a passively cooled graphics card is very much desired. Tim Cook was once asked why Apple puts so much engineering resources into accessibility, and his response was "because it's the right thing to do". I'm sure many of the accessibility features that Apple implements are not profitable, but they improve quality of life for many users. Microsoft and the PC companies simply don't give a damn.

I've been trying to explain Apple's design philosophy, and reasons for switching to Apple Silicon from x86, to a "non-tech" friend of mine. I boil it down to the average computer having three conflicting primary metrics: noise, performance, weight. With a PC, you can get maybe two of those, if you are lucky. The average PC laptop using an Intel Molten Lake CPU shows the sort of tradeoffs that need to be done. With Apple Silicon, you can have all three in one device. Apple Silicon allows for a Mac that is silent, performant, and can be included in many form factors, from the slim MacBook Air, all the way up to the next Mac Pro.

This is why I'm never going to build a PC and always have a Mac. Apple controls the entire stack, from the basic microcontrollers that drive I/O, to the SoC at the heart of a Mac, up to the operating system and primary applications. That allows them a certain design freedom that is impossible with a PC that is composed of products engineered by two dozen companies, each of which have different goals. Apple Silicon Macs allow for a vertical integration strategy that Steve Jobs could have only dreamt of for the Mac, and users will benefit greatly from that engineering methodology. If the tradeoff is less expandability and losing access to a handful of PC-only games, then that's a compromise that I'm more than happy to make, particularly if it helps me deal with a physical disability, while still having the highest quality personal computer available.

Anyway, the Sonnet 6800 is going back to Amazon tomorrow, while the W6600X should arrive in a few weeks, if Apple's estimates are to be believed. Even though the price/performance equation isn't a good one, silence isn't just golden, but fundamentally necessary for me.

I have a bum left ear, too. My tensor tympani muscle randomly goes nuts, especially when there are high pitched noises around, and drives me crazy, Anyway, sorry about the crappy graphics card.

We were at the Apple Store last night (date night!) and I lingered for a moment and ran my fingers over the Mac Pro case, and my wife said “oooh! What’s *that?*” I had to explain why, as cool as it looked, it was not for us

 

[Colstan]

I have a bum left ear, too. My tensor tympani muscle randomly goes nuts, especially when there are high pitched noises around, and drives me crazy

You have my sympathies. It's well-nigh impossible to explain to someone with regular hearing what it is like to have such an issue. It can be frustrating for everyone involved, since I have to be selective about where I go in public, based upon noise levels. It's also something that can only be fully understood if you suffer from it yourself.

Anyway, sorry about the crappy graphics card.

Yeah, I expected it to be loud, but not to the point where I couldn't manage it through software. The noise was so bad that it drowned out the game music playing on my computer speakers. Even if I could wear headphones, it would blast right through the cans. Everyone who I had listen to it admitted the noise was too much. Sonnet simply repackaged the AMD reference design and slapped their label on it, meaning that the AMD cards are just as loud. The only other third-party GPU that fits inside the Mac Pro is the Gigabyte RX 6x00 Gaming OC series, that comes overclocked by default. These models have three fans, but one of them spins in the opposite direction of the other two, hence creating even more unnecessary turbulence. This is the same company that markets some of their cards under the "Windforce" brand. I've read comments from owners of these cards, and they complain about them being loud, as well. Graphics cards have gotten so power hungry that they require insane cooling solutions to exhaust that amount of heat.

Gigabyte also has the dubious distinction of recently selling exploding power supplies. Imagine if Apple tried pulling something like that.

That's why I decided upon using one of the workstation MPX modules with my Mac Pro, because it can't get any more silent than passive cooling. Apple may over-engineer the Mac as a product line, and thus increase costs to the consumer, but there are tangible benefits. Hence, the W6600X may not be as powerful as the 6800/6900, but at least I'll be able to use it without blowing out my hearing.

We were at the Apple Store last night (date night!)

Nothing says sexy times like going to the Apple Store. It reminds me of those wild nights at Radio Shack, "using a Tandy" took on a completely different meaning.

I lingered for a moment and ran my fingers over the Mac Pro case, and my wife said “oooh! What’s *that?*” I had to explain why, as cool as it looked, it was not for us

I was half-joking in my (now deleted) first post when I said, "I'm not rich enough to be able to just build a gaming PC to run alongside my Mac, and I'm not dumb enough to use Windows as a daily driver". While I could probably put together the funds to purchase a base model Mac Pro, not the premium one I have now, I couldn't justify it given the costs of Real Life™, and the fact that I have no clue what to do with the one sitting on my desk. I just happened to get it at a stupid low price; it's like getting a Lamborghini for the price of a Yugo.

I could afford building a modest gaming PC to put beside a Mac, but I don't trust the PC parts manufacturers to release components that are power restrained enough for me to cool effectively without having to resort to exotic solutions. I don't have Apple's engineering talents at my disposal, plus I'm not sure I play enough games to warrant having two computers, especially since Apple is making overtures toward improving the situation, starting with Metal 3.

Regardless, the 2019 Mac Pro is an amazing art piece, which bedazzled me when I first opened it, because I had never seen one in person. I feel like I caught the unicorn, subdued the cockatrice, broke the basilisk, captured the great white Mac Pro whale, or perhaps felled the bonnacon and its flaming bowels. (Yes, this was a real thing in Medieval bestiaries.)

If I had that particular digestive issue, I'd look embarrassed, too.

Speaking of flaming farts, Intel will be releasing 13th gen Molten Lake based upon Lava Cove in the next month or so, with the highest SKU having "unlimited power" mode, boosting up to 350w. Add on top of that another 600w for Nvidia's 4090, and I think the cooling required is going to disqualify me for ownership right from the beginning. Apple gets my business by default, not just because they have the superior platform with the Mac, but also because Apple cares about quality of life issues, which apparently none of the PC guys do.

I've seen gamers who take pride in how much heat and noise their PCs produce, showing off their muscle gaming machines, even though they have probably never personally seen the inside of a gym. As Mac users, we don't have to deal with two dozen RGB LEDs flooding the case, as if radioactive leprechaun vomit spilled out of the liquid cooling reservoir, coating the entire PC in seizure-inducing disco lights. According to the PC gamer crowd, this is a major reason to avoid the Mac. It never ceases to amaze me when a hardcore PC gamer will dismissively state that Macs are toys, meanwhile complaining that Macs don't have enough games, and doing so while using an anime-themed computer case with a glass side panel on their macho gaming machine, requiring so much wattage that its rainbow flood lights can be seen from Proxima Centauri.

The Mac Pro, at times, feels over-engineered, masterfully artful, but at least those endeavors have value beyond the visual appeal, such as passively cooled, silent GPU modules that will give me a performance solution without blowing out my eardrums. In that sense, a price cannot be put on sanity.

 

[Citysnaps]

One-third of the population has tinnitus, which is a constant ringing or hissing in the ears.

I'm paying the price for that now having played drums in bands and having loud cars years ago. It's difficult explaining it to other people. It's not tonal (though there are some stronger tonal/sinusoidal components. It's a more wideband spectrum, kind of like machinery or metal plates rubbing together whirring.

 

[Nycturne]

Yeah, the 2019 Mac Pro is a rather nice machine. Having had the opportunity to use pretty much every Mac Pro since the switch to Intel either through work or personal use, it’s been an interesting ride so far. I even used the 2013 for work for close to 5 years and it worked fine without too many complaints. Although the SSDs were starting to show their age when the 2018 Mac Mini started beating it in some of our work scenarios.

Out of all the models I’ve gotten to use, I think the 2019 is my favorite. I’m curious about what the Apple Silicon version will look like, and how much of the engineering in the 2019 (if any) makes it into the new models.

 

[Cmaier]

Yeah, the 2019 Mac Pro is a rather nice machine. Having had the opportunity to use pretty much every Mac Pro since the switch to Intel either through work or personal use, it’s been an interesting ride so far. I even used the 2013 for work for close to 5 years and it worked fine without too many complaints. Although the SSDs were starting to show their age when the 2018 Mac Mini started beating it in some of our work scenarios.

Out of all the models I’ve gotten to use, I think the 2019 is my favorite. I’m curious about what the Apple Silicon version will look like, and how much of the engineering in the 2019 (if any) makes it into the new models.

I hope the design language of the new Mac Pro is more 2019 Mac Pro and less Mac Studio. But I fear it might not be.

Because I‘m the kind of guy who might actually buy an Apple Silicon Mac Pro just because it looks cool

 

[Colstan]

I hope the design language of the new Mac Pro is more 2019 Mac Pro and less Mac Studio. But I fear it might not be.

A lot of the irrational anger directed at the Apple Silicon Mac Pro is singularly dialed into this eventuality. From my perspective, the Mac Pros of the Intel era were a result of Intel's design philosophy, not Apple's. I figure that Apple is going to follow the trajectory of every other Apple Silicon Mac, and the Mac Pro will simply be a scaled up version of the Mac Studio with an "Extreme" version of the M2. I also think that it will have a handful of PCIe slots, but only for storage, networking, audio, and other such tasks. Third-party GPU support from AMD and Nvidia (for those still keeping the dream alive) will be going the way of Giant Ground Sloths, Megalodon, Woolly Mammoths, Bill Cosby fans, and new Scientology recruits.

Because I‘m the kind of guy who might actually buy an Apple Silicon Mac Pro just because it looks cool

I've finished most of the hardware upgrades, W6600X aside, and transferred almost everything. I "pulled a @Cmaier" and moved all of my files over using Time Machine. Hence, I've got a lot of old crud, such as remnants of inert 32-bit programs still haunting my SSD, like a cadre of digital revenants. Considering that I went from an anemic 128GB internal SSD inside my humble i3 Mac mini, to 2TB in the Mac Pro, I think I can live with the extra space being taken up by a few extraneous files of yesteryear. When I do finally get an Apple Silicon Mac, I'll nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

Now that I've finished with most of the transference, both digitally and mentally, I've actually taken some time to appreciate the housing itself. I was very fortunate to receive a case that is completely without scuff marks or blemishes. Whoever previously owned this Mac Pro kept good care of it and it shows. Some of the used models I had seen looked like they had been attacked by a group of angry mountain lions.

Housing upkeep aside, upgrading and replacing hardware is simple. Using the handle on the top of the case to remove the outer shell is amazingly effortless in its design. Apple must have foreseen users replacing the GPU as the most likely upgrade, so they label the steps numerically beforehand within the case itself. The locking mechanism for the expansion slots is something that PC makers should shamelessly copy, since they do that with everything else Apple does, as is tradition. A single switch will lock all PCIe cards into place. The 2019 Mac Pro isn't form over function, it's both in equal measure, and awe inspiring in each regard.

The impressive appearance of its externals are matched by its hefty weight. A quality case should have comparable doses of durability and longevity. It's deceptively heavy, which is a good thing, in regards to structural integrity. The case is simply beautiful, the ventilation holes date back to at least 2015, as an inspired "hobby". The fans are amazingly quiet, yet move a tremendous amount of air which is easily experienced just by placing your hand behind the vents on the back. A lot of thought was put into how the case handles airflow. Every time I open the Mac Pro up or inspect its structure, I find something new, or a nice touch that only Apple would think of. There are a handful of over-engineered aspects; I mentioned before that the internal speaker has a fully functional, integrated subwoofer. However, for the most part, the entire design is logical and well thought out. It puts every PC case to absolute shame, it's not even close, and I've seen a lot of PC cases over the years. Apple put in the work, it shows, and it has a price to match. Still, most of the positive design aspects could easily be applied to less costly housing, but Apple doesn't make any other tower computers, and the PC guys just don't seem to give a damn.

I don't know what could artistically top the 2019 model. While the most obvious answer would be a 2023 Mac Pro, my bet would be an all-black iMac Pro, as has been rumored for later next year, sporting a case color that is blacker than black. I think such a device could be even more artistically impressive, albeit far less expandable.

So, other than my continued bewilderment that I somehow managed to score one of these beastly beauties, I can't help but sit back and take a moment to enjoy the artistic simplicity of one of Apple's most amazing product designs which became the 2019 Mac Pro.

 

[Citysnaps]

I figure that Apple is going to follow the trajectory of every other Apple Silicon Mac, and the Mac Pro will simply be a scaled up version of the Mac Studio with an "Extreme" version of the M2.

I'm hoping it will be similar to the current Mac Pro, perhaps scaled down some in size.

And I'm really hoping there will be a rack mount version as there is with the current Mac Pro.

Perhaps 4U in height rather than the current 5U. And look pretty much the same with the same robust build and esthetics. With Apple Silicon the 1.4 KW power supply could certainly be scaled down. And it should have lots of PCIE slots for special purpose cards and I/O.

 

[Colstan]

I'm hoping it will be similar to the current Mac Pro, perhaps scaled down some in size.

We haven't had any new Mac Pro rumors recently. Last I heard, Apple's skunk works were testing Apple Silicon with a full-size case, a half-size case, and one more Xeon candidate. From my perspective, it's quite possible that the full-size is simply the 2019 design housing Apple Silicon, the half-size version was actually the Mac Studio before it was announced, and I think we all know that the ship sailed long ago on a Xeon refresh. I don't recall the exact issue, but the Xeons that Apple could have used were either unimpressive or delayed to the point of irrelevancy - or both. My guess, and purely a guess, is that the Apple Silicon Mac Pro will look vaguely familiar, but have new physical characteristics to make it distinct.

With Apple Silicon the 1.4 KW power supply could certainly be scaled down.

The lights flash whenever I hit the power button to turn on my Mac Pro.

For some reason, that never happened with the Mac mini it replaced.

 

[Citysnaps]

The lights flash whenever I hit the power button to turn on my Mac Pro.

You're not playing fair, now!

 

[Colstan]

While waiting for my new GPU to arrive, I ran a few more benchmarks, this time everyone's favorite, Cinebench:

Multi-core is obscene, and where a Mac Pro shines. It's also the part I have no clue what to do with, other than look at the results in bewilderment. While maxing out the Xeon at 32-threads for the full test, the system got much hotter, jumping by about 35C, from 31C to 66C. Simply putting my hand behind the case where the exhaust for the CPU exits, I can tell it's outputting a lot of heat. Surprisingly, the fans only ramped up slightly, still producing a pleasantly low "whirring" sound. Not at all bothersome.

Single-core tells a different story:

This is where the Mac Pro is showing its age, and that it's using a CPU released in 2019, not that I'm complaining, just pointing that out. I have MenuMeters running while doing these benchmarks to monitor temps and CPU utilization. Obviously, multi-core was maxing out at 100%. Meanwhile, single-core was using up a whopping 3%, occasionally spiking to 4%. This isn't representative of any real-world tasks, and includes HT in that equation, but still remarkable.

Coming from a 4C/4T i3 Mac mini, the most striking difference is simply the responsiveness of the system. For example, the Epic Games Store website is a dog, slowing down my Mac mini to the point where it took twenty or more seconds to fully load. It's only a few seconds with this Mac Pro. I think this is the area where Apple Silicon sees the most benefit; everyday tasks which the user will encounter on a daily basis, not benchmarks. I don't plan on doing a lot of benchmarking, there are plenty of those out there already, I just wanted to see what this thing could do while I wait to complete my system.

Speaking of which, I'm sure PC fans would think that I'm insane for trading in a 6800XT for a W6600X for the same price. That's easy to say if you don't mind having a freight train inside your computer case. As I mentioned previously in this thread, I have a hearing condition that makes quiet operation not just preferable, but necessary, otherwise loud sound will cause me physical pain. Others here were kind enough to share their own hearing related issues, which I very much appreciate, because sometimes I feel like I'm alone in suffering from such a malady.

Apple's MPX modules are passively cooled, entirely silent, and just what I need. At the time that this 2019 Mac Pro was released, the W5700X was the fastest GPU that Apple supported. The W6600X is slightly faster than that, so it's not as much of a mismatch as it initially seems. The W6600X MPX module was actually released on March 8th 2021, the same day as the Mac Studio, which is ironic, seeing how Apple was dumping on the Mac Pro during the announcement. Despite the optimism of other Mac Pro owners, I fully expect this to be the last GPU that Apple releases for the x86 Mac Pro, and that the RDNA3 7000-series will not be supported, since Apple didn't even tweak the driver for the RDNA2 refresh, which was relatively simple. Apple has killed the Intel line, the Mac Pro just doesn't know that it's already dead. The 2019 Mac Pro is on borrowed time, and I'm okay with that.

The W6600X is about 50% slower than the 6800XT, but considerably cheaper than Apple's version. While it includes the "Apple tax", the W6600X is $630 using my sister's education discount, while the next step up, the W6800X is an eye-watering $2,520. There's no way I'm paying more for a graphics card than what I got the Mac Pro itself for, so there was really only one choice. I'll gladly trade the additional cost and performance hit for the reduction in decibels; for me, silence isn't just golden, but mandatory.

So, that's the final piece of the puzzle that I am waiting on. My GPU got Shanghaied along the way. If this had happened a few months ago, then I'd be waiting for an eternity, since that area of China was under lockdown.

Considering where it's now located, perhaps Elvis can deliver it for me.

Again, thank you to everyone who has been patient enough to follow this saga along with me, you've helped to keep me sane through the ups and downs.

 

[Colstan]

Before I complete the final chapter on my Mac Pro expedition, I wanted to tie up a loose end. Namely, what happened to my Mac mini?

While a Core i3 with an RX 580 eGPU is hardly high-end tech, it's not completely worthless. Adding all of my old gear together, I could have gotten around $600 for it, the price of the W6600X that is going inside my Mac Pro.

As many folks here also do, family members inherit our older Macs. My 10-year old nephew is addicted to the game Roblox. Apparently, it's his generation's version of Mario or Pac-Man. All of his friends play it, and that's the only game that he cares about. He's been using a recycled Dell office PC to play this game. My sister got it for Xmas for him along with a "gaming" monitor, headphones and keyboard. It's enough to impress a kid, anyway. While the game is hardly demanding, it still chokes on the old Dell, which makes him highly frustrated. Thankfully, there is a Mac version of Roblox.

So, as a surprise, I setup my Mac mini for him. It's more than enough to play Roblox without the stutters he was experiencing. While attaining a 2019 Mac Pro is great, something that I never thought I'd be able to justify purchasing, there's an intangible benefit to my nephew's smile as he realizes that he won't have to struggle with an old Dell any longer to play his favorite game.

Summation: I got a Mac Pro for $2,000, but a big hug from my nephew is priceless.

Now, to finish up the last part of this venture, it's going to be rather anti-climatic. I installed the W6600X inside of my Mac Pro and ran Geekbench.

Here are the final system specs:

New GPU:

Geekbench Metal, with the original 580X:

Geekbench Metal, after upgrading to W6600X:

So, I basically doubled the GPU performance that I started out with. While not the fastest MPX module, the next step up would have cost more than what I paid for the Mac Pro on its own.

I realize that there is some controversy over using Geekbench with Apple Silicon, particularly the high-end M-series, but comparatively the W6600X is still scoring close to the M1 Ultra with the upgraded 64-core GPU, which is hardly a slouch, being the fastest Apple Silicon Mac currently available.

Also, when this Mac Pro was released in 2019, the W5700X was the top-end GPU from Apple, the W6600X is a little faster than that, so it's not as much of a mismatch as it first appears.

Finally, the MPX modules from Apple are passively cooled. I'd gladly pay a premium if that means I don't have a rocket turbine roaring inside the case. Even when artificially maxing out the CPU and GPU, the Mac Pro remains reasonably silent, producing a pleasant "whirring" noise.

Thus ends my Mac Pro saga, I'd like to thank everyone who joined me on this quest, and appreciate all of the kind words and feedback that I received. It is very much appreciated.

Now, I just have to figure out what I'm supposed to do with this thing...

 

[Nycturne]

It probably helps that the W6600X seems to be a lower power card ("half-height" like the 580X). The W5700X was a "full-height" MPX card and could get hot enough to spin up the case fans quite a bit.

 

[Colstan]

It probably helps that the W6600X seems to be a lower power card ("half-height" like the 580X). The W5700X was a "full-height" MPX card and could get hot enough to spin up the case fans quite a bit.

Exactly. The Sonnet 6800XT that I tried previously not only had three loud fans on it, but it also caused the Mac Pro fans to ramp up almost immediately under moderate load, as well. The W6600X still has higher power draw than the 580X that it replaced, but the Mac Pro doesn't immediately start ramping up, making noise levels more manageable through game settings, plus being passively cooled helps. It definitely gets louder than the 580X, but not ridiculously so.

One nice touch is that Apple only increases the rpm of the fan that is sitting in front of the MPX module, not all fans in the system. So, if the GPU needs more airflow, it isolates which MPX module is getting hot, and then only ramps the fan in front of it automatically. Alternatively, if the CPU starts working hard, the fan in front of it will increase in speed. It's an elegant solution to a challenging problem, as PC components get hotter.

It's also yet another reason for Apple to take control over thermals with Apple Silicon, because Intel certainly isn't, and AMD only appears restrained in comparison. It's really an industry-wide problem, and I'd say that Apple is the only major manufacturer taking it seriously and not kicking the bucket down the road.

 

[Nycturne]

I like Apple’s approach here in general, yes. Holistic airflow designs are one of the strong suits of the Mac Pro line dating back to 2006. And I greatly appreciate the thermals of the M1 Pro/Max, since it made me love using a MacBook Pro as my primary computer again for the first time since the first Intel MacBook Pro.

The 2019 Mac Pro seems to be very good under light load, but with higher end GPUs, it gets louder than it needs to be because of the passive radiators on the cards. You have one case fan that needs to handle hundreds of watts of heat generation, pushing air through the radiator, and so in practice, it ramps up the RPMs on that fan higher than I personally like. It’s still generally reasonable, but not as quiet as earlier generations like the 2012 Mac Pro have been.

Mostly I compare it to the gaming PC I built shortly before the pandemic, and how it is able to be quieter at full load, but a little louder than the Mac Pro at idle. It’s also built in one of the smallest micro ATX cases on the market, fully air cooled. So it’s not like I have a ton of space to handle the airflow, and had to be smart about it to get things nice and quiet like I wanted.

EDIT: Please don’t feel like I’m trying to nit pick your choice or anything here. If I still used the 2019, I’d probably want a W6600X in it as well and been happy with the noise levels. The 580X getting long in the tooth is an understatement. But the W5700X wasn’t my ideal setup.