Behold! The Kin!

[JayAgostino]

Man, what a stupid device this was! What was Microsoft thinking?

 

[Nycturne]

I could tell you, but then I'd probably have to kill you.

(I wonder if I still have my Kin stickers somewhere in the "box of random swag")

 

[JayAgostino]

I could tell you, but then I'd probably have to kill you.

(I wonder if I still have my Kin stickers somewhere in the "box of random swag")

Do you own one of the few Kin devices in existence?

 

[Nycturne]

Do you own one of the few Kin devices in existence?

No, but I did work in E&D at the time Kin was being worked on, close enough to know about the existence of the project, what it was attempting to do, and knew folks that contributed work that likely made it into the Kin. E&D was showered with stickers and other things at launch. By that time, I was deep in a different project that was also pretty infamous. If you squint hard enough, you may even see a younger me lurking in the background (not really): https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-iphone-funeral-2010-9#-1

But really, it's just not my place to spill the beans on what I did see when it comes to the politics of the E&D group at the time, and how it may (or may not) have played out when it comes to Kin et al. I can say the video's characterization of what happened doesn't seem all that far off.

 

[JayAgostino]

By that time, I was deep in a different project that was also pretty infamous.

The funeral for the iPhone?

Jokes aside, I assume you were working on Windows Phone.

 

[Nycturne]

The funeral for the iPhone?

Jokes aside, I assume you were working on Windows Phone.

Yes. To be honest, while the project did fail, and there were definitely aspects where I think: "I really wish we could have done X differently as an organization", it's still probably one of my favorite projects. I did work there that I'm still proud of, and I'm proud of much of the work of my peers. I learned a lot as an engineer that I still apply today, and do miss working with many of those people. There are things that happened there that will probably never happen again when it comes to engineering a mobile OS at the scale we were aiming at. It was also one of the more quality-focused projects I've had the chance to work on. But at the end of the day, the market still has to agree about the value of what you've made.

I think the main thing to just be aware of at this time is that Microsoft entered the smartphone market pretty early with Windows Mobile 2003. They didn't have RIM's success, but they were having success. Just like RIM though, Microsoft had to respond to Google buying Android, and the sudden mic drop that was the iPhone at the start of 2007 (even Google had to respond to that one). Had Microsoft not tried new things, it still would have lost, but it would have been more like RIM's decline. Trying something and failing in my mind is preferable to doing business as usual and hoping it somehow works out.

On the ship party though, each team had free reign to make their own "float" for the parade. Some teams focused more on emphasizing what they had accomplished, others wanted to do the whole "Sports Ball! Go Team!" sort of thing, which is where the hearse and pall bearers came from. I thought it was a bit overzealous, but it was also a time where this sort of "Go Team!" stuff was encouraged. Ballmer himself liked this sort of cheerleading approach to things to get people fired up and excited about our work, so it's not surprising it was a big part of the culture at the time.

 

[Alli]

My nephews both had Kins. Looking back at that, they both feel foolish. LOL

 

[JayAgostino]

Yes. To be honest, while the project did fail, and there were definitely aspects where I think: "I really wish we could have done X differently as an organization", it's still probably one of my favorite projects. I did work there that I'm still proud of, and I'm proud of much of the work of my peers. I learned a lot as an engineer that I still apply today, and do miss working with many of those people. There are things that happened there that will probably never happen again when it comes to engineering a mobile OS at the scale we were aiming at. It was also one of the more quality-focused projects I've had the chance to work on. But at the end of the day, the market still has to agree about the value of what you've made.

I think the main thing to just be aware of at this time is that Microsoft entered the smartphone market pretty early with Windows Mobile 2003. They didn't have RIM's success, but they were having success. Just like RIM though, Microsoft had to respond to Google buying Android, and the sudden mic drop that was the iPhone at the start of 2007 (even Google had to respond to that one). Had Microsoft not tried new things, it still would have lost, but it would have been more like RIM's decline. Trying something and failing in my mind is preferable to doing business as usual and hoping it somehow works out.

On the ship party though, each team had free reign to make their own "float" for the parade. Some teams focused more on emphasizing what they had accomplished, others wanted to do the whole "Sports Ball! Go Team!" sort of thing, which is where the hearse and pall bearers came from. I thought it was a bit overzealous, but it was also a time where this sort of "Go Team!" stuff was encouraged. Ballmer himself liked this sort of cheerleading approach to things to get people fired up and excited about our work, so it's not surprising it was a big part of the culture at the time.

How long were you working on Windows Phone?

 

[Nycturne]

How long were you working on Windows Phone?

A while. I worked on Windows CE, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone, multiple releases of each. I left after Windows Phone 8 shipped, wanting to leave on a high note and work on something else.

 

[JayAgostino]

A while. I worked on Windows CE, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone, multiple releases of each. I left after Windows Phone 8 shipped, wanting to leave on a high note and work on something else.

Ah, okay. You must've been bummed when they wanted to use Windows NT instead of Windows CE for the kernel.

 

[Nycturne]

Ah, okay. You must've been bummed when they wanted to use Windows NT instead of Windows CE for the kernel.

Nope.

 

[JayAgostino]

Nope.

Were you offered a different position at Microsoft?

 

[Nycturne]

Were you offered a different position at Microsoft?

I’m not sure I understand the question.

 

[JayAgostino]

I’m not sure I understand the question.

Yeah, never mind.