Billionaire true tax rate

[thekev]

Yes, $20K is a low number. But what starts out as a Billionaire tax will creep down to Millionaires and then to everyone else. If there is a way for a politician to extract a tax from it, they will.

Remember that most people don't have the absurd financial vehicles that become available and practical when you control billions in combined cash and assets. Musk himself is just another jackass.

 

[User.45]

Remember that most people don't have the absurd financial vehicles that become available and practical when you control billions in combined cash and assets. Musk himself is just another jackass.

He’d actually sell a lot more Teslas if he weren’t the jackass he is. I for one know that i will not buy a tesla to remind me daily that i gave money to his heavily tax subsidized car company so he can throw tantrums about taxation. Fuck this guy.

I’ll say it again, these guys made more money in a year that is enough for a family to live comfortably longer than the entire history of our species.

 

[lizkat]

Another Billionaire tax detractor said it’s not practical. You mean not practical like the infinite web of loopholes and scams billionaires use to avoid paying taxes? Yeah, we certainly wouldn’t want them to have to navigate a system that isn’t at least that simple.

Heaven forbid things ever get so simple as getting a postcard from the IRS that says "We have your W2s and 1099s, interim payments and withholding information for the year, so per the legislated tax brackets, this amount is the balance due, so please pay up by April 15th."

A billionaire in the USA will pay millions of bucks to accountants and lawyers before agreeing to pay one dollar more in taxes than what he can keep -- per every single loophole that his and his wealth peers' congress critters have managed to jam into the tax code so far.

And that's not tax evasion, see. It's about just following the owner's manual after buying a nice tax code.

You or I could do that too, buy a new tax code from congress critters, except that the price of a ticket on that train has gone up and up ever since the 2010 Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court. Corporations are people and can buy all the "free speech" their accountants will cut loose for a worthy cause... and a worthy cause is whatever they happen to want from the next sitting US Congress.

 

[thekev]

He’d actually sell a lot more Teslas if he weren’t the jackass he is. I for one know that i will not buy a tesla to remind me daily that i gave money to his heavily tax subsidized car company so he can throw tantrums about taxation. Fuck this guy.

I’ll say it again, these guys made more money in a year that is enough for a family to live comfortably longer than the entire history of our species.

His companies appear to have a lot of accomplishments in pushing electric vehicles, but they encounter a lot of safety concerns and aren't known for being particularly good work environments. I don't think think the jerkiness adds to them in any way. It's more like when you have that level of success, you can find people who will tolerate it.

 

[thekev]

--accidental double post--

 

[User.45]

His companies appear to have a lot of accomplishments in pushing electric vehicles, but they encounter a lot of safety concerns and aren't known for being particularly good work environments. I don't think think the jerkiness adds to them in any way. It's more like when you have that level of success, you can find people who will tolerate it.

The guy has issues, and that's beyond the field distortion that comes with power. I actively avoid articles like this because I don't care and it is generally none of my business, but some reason I read this one from his ex-wife:

"I Was a Starter Wife": Inside America's Messiest Divorce

In the middle of her headline-grabbing divorce settlement from Elon Musk, Justine Musk reveals the truth about her marriage.

www.marieclaire.com

Him buying and then leading Tesla to success and accelerating the rEVolution is great, but he became addicted to the glory of succeeding in virtually impossible challenges and now he regularly puts his foot in his mouth. Like the Cybertruck or the 30K EV for all, or Autopilot or the Tesla Roof. He's hurting his own credibility and I think he is repositioning himself as a libertarian not because he really believes these ideas, but because credibility issues are way better tolerated on the libertarian spectrum. This speaks miles.

On the other hand I just don't know what's gonna happen to Teslas when they are reaching the end of their life cycle...Teslas are notoriously shitty cars to do repairs on.

 

[DT]

He’d actually sell a lot more Teslas [...]

Don't know how, the ETDs are currently a year out

 

[DT]

Hahaha, that's it, his asshole behavior is secretly a supply chain control mechanism ...

 

[User.45]

Don't know how, the ETDs are currently a year out

For the Model X only.

 

[User.45]

Hahaha, that's it, his asshole behavior is secretly a supply chain control mechanism ...

You're joking but it sort of is. Or think about the Model 3. The supply mismatch allowed to keep the Model S/X price high while the Model 3 production started ramping up. He's def a smart guy.

 

[DT]

For the Model X only.

View attachment 9467
View attachment 9468

OK, so June, maybe, on a Y, and a year for other models, @quagmire's parent just ordered a Y and I think their ETD shortened up by like 3 months. Some of this - according to people deeply ITK - is projecting new factories being able to accelerate delivery times (some folks think these new delivery dates are incredibly optimistic). The Model 3 SR is still June as well, changing the battery chemistry for that model.

It's a long wait, the point being, I don't think there's much effect from non-buyers at the moment.

 

[User.45]

OK, so June, maybe, on a Y, and a year for other models, @quagmire's parent just ordered a Y and I think their ETD shortened up by like 3 months. Some of this - according to people deeply ITK - is projecting new factories being able to accelerate delivery times (some folks think these new delivery dates are incredibly optimistic). The Model 3 SR is still June as well, changing the battery chemistry for that model.

It's a long wait, the point being, I don't think there's much effect from non-buyers at the moment.

You are most likely right, but that tells a lot about us. These people could just cancel their orders...

 

[DT]

Oh and to be clear, regardless of owning a Tesla product, that fucker should pay his proper share of taxes. We do, and we've paid a TON of taxes over the last couple of decades.

Same thing for Bezos, I'm sure many of us are enjoying our convenient, price competitive products from Amazon, I'll be the first to admit, we do, and there's not a good alternative for us (I mean, is Walmart really better?) He should pay his proper share too.

 

[quagmire]

For the Model X only.

View attachment 9467
View attachment 9468

OK, so June, maybe, on a Y, and a year for other models, @quagmire's parent just ordered a Y and I think their ETD shortened up by like 3 months. Some of this - according to people deeply ITK - is projecting new factories being able to accelerate delivery times (some folks think these new delivery dates are incredibly optimistic). The Model 3 SR is still June as well, changing the battery chemistry for that model.

It's a long wait, the point being, I don't think there's much effect from non-buyers at the moment.

For whatever reason, Tesla's build site is now defaulting to the upgraded wheels. Bump back down to the stock 19" wheels instead of the optional 20" wheels, it now shows September.



Though as DT mentioned, my parents just ordered the Y on Tuesday. At the time, it was estimating August. The next day it updated to March 02-30th. So who knows. Tesla's EDD is notoriously inaccurate. My parents may have moved up because I completed the profile for them and that is an "unofficial" way of moving up in the queue as a completed profile is in a higher priority for VIN assignment.

 

[thekev]

Oh and to be clear, regardless of owning a Tesla product, that fucker should pay his proper share of taxes. We do, and we've paid a TON of taxes over the last couple of decades.

Same thing for Bezos, I'm sure many of us are enjoying our convenient, price competitive products from Amazon, I'll be the first to admit, we do, and there's not a good alternative for us (I mean, is Walmart really better?) He should pay his proper share too.

I treat them as a last resort. I probably average one order per year, but I don't buy a lot of stuff in general.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The Media Got the Billionaires Income Tax Wrong

Despite the media framing, a tax on billionaires’ investment income is not novel, unworkable, unconstitutional, or divisive.

prospect.org

 

[Herdfan]

Except that hasn’t happened. Instead, I pay a higher percentage of my income than billionaires. The tax burden has shifted from the rich to the poor.

Did you count the appreciation of any investments or 401(k) as income, because that is what the chart is based on?

Zuckerberg is not on that list, but he is right up there with them. FB has some issues right now, so what if all of a sudden users bail and he loses most of his wealth? It could happen to him or any one of them at any time.

 

[Cmaier]

Did you count the appreciation of any investments or 401(k) as income, because that is what the chart is based on?

Zuckerberg is not on that list, but he is right up there with them. FB has some issues right now, so what if all of a sudden users bail and he loses most of his wealth? It could happen to him or any one of them at any time.

It “could” but it never seems to, does it? Name a billionaire who isn’t a billionaire.

Look, if you have a billion dollars of net worth and no income, what you do is take out loans against your capital, and live off of that. You buy planes and yachts and mansions. Why not tax those loans (and allowing you to deduct interest paid)? Whether I get a $100,000 a year by hourly pay, salary, or loans using stock as collateral, what difference should it make?

 

[SuperMatt]

It “could” but it never seems to, does it? Name a billionaire who isn’t a billionaire.

Trump. I think he’s still supposedly worth $900 million. But he doesn’t fit the mold since most of his wealth is in real estate and licensing deals.

I find it hilarious that somebody is defending billionaires that pay $0 in taxes, crying that “oh no they might tax me more if they tax billionaires!!” That’s so silly. If we tax billionaires more, there will be more revenue so we won’t have to tax SUSIE SOCCER MOM so much.

 

[Herdfan]

It “could” but it never seems to, does it? Name a billionaire who isn’t a billionaire.

Look, if you have a billion dollars of net worth and no income, what you do is take out loans against your capital, and live off of that. You buy planes and yachts and mansions. Why not tax those loans (and allowing you to deduct interest paid)? Whether I get a $100,000 a year by hourly pay, salary, or loans using stock as collateral, what difference should it make?

I do agree on this. But not on appreciation of unrealized gains that can be gone tomorrow. Unless the government is prepared to give tax refunds when those assets lose value.