China to ban effeminate men from TV

SuperMatt

Site Master
Posts
7,862
Reaction score
15,004
Funny thing is, most of you missed the whole point. it was not about the left and China, but China banning effeminate men.

I think it was a couple of years ago, maybe less, there was a thread on Toxic Masculinity on PRSI. Everyone was against it, well most everyone. Even talked about Gillette's commercial about it (I have not bought a Gillette razor since, Schick's are doing quite well.)

But here is an entire country that is basically saying we want toxic masculinity and here the focus is a little blurb about the left and China.

My point is China gets away with stuff that people in the US would lose their shit about and no one cares.
How could anybody read:

Since no one on the left seems to care about China's horrible human rights record, maybe this will get them fired up.
And think your point is NOT “the left and China”???

That’s literally the only thing you mentioned. There is no other point of any kind mentioned in that sentence.

My point is China gets away with stuff that people in the US would lose their shit about and no one cares.
If that was your point, that’s probably what you should have written instead of that nonsense about “the left”….
 

Scepticalscribe

Cancelled
Posts
6,644
Reaction score
9,457
Funny thing is, most of you missed the whole point. it was not about the left and China, but China banning effeminate men.

I think it was a couple of years ago, maybe less, there was a thread on Toxic Masculinity on PRSI. Everyone was against it, well most everyone. Even talked about Gillette's commercial about it (I have not bought a Gillette razor since, Schick's are doing quite well.)

But here is an entire country that is basically saying we want toxic masculinity and here the focus is a little blurb about the left and China.

My point is China gets away with stuff that people in the US would lose their shit about and no one cares.
Not all of us missed "the point".

And there are two distinct and different issues here: Masculinity (or constructs - culturally reinforced or not - of masculinity, including "toxic masculinity") and China; conflating the two misses the point, and to attempt to drag the "left" into it, runs the risk of missing the point completely.

China is an authoritarian culture and society - one with autocratic traditions for thousands of years - and an autocratic state; culturally, it - that is, its shared values and common vision - prizes the collective, and elevates the idea and ideal of the collective - and the collective good (however that is defined) over the individual, (and over individual needs, such as any sort of self-expression); its history and geography both mean that it passionately values stability, and security, loathes chaos, instability and anything that serves to disrupt or unsettle society - and - this is important and it is why "the left" has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion - China has been this way for centuries and centuries, since long before the communists ever got a sniff of power.

As was also the case with Russia, the pre-existing, deeply rooted, cultural contours and traditions of Chinese society deeply influenced the form that communism took there, and these values still profoundly influence the profile (and attitudes) of China (post-Communist China) today.

However, to reiterate some of my earlier points and flesh them out a little:

China desires to ban "effeminate men" from TV because:

1. Culturally, it is an authoritarian state and - culturally (historically, traditionally) - it can do so. For centuries the state had enormous power over a great many aspects of people's lives, and the cultural traditions (the collective over the individual) allowed, enabled, encouraged, facilitated such expressions of power; historically, there was little push back.

2. Increasingly, these days, China matters.

Sixty or seventy years ago what China did about anything was irrelevant in the west; economically, politically, militarily, culturally (i.e. in the wielding of "soft power"), it didn't count. If anything, China was seen as a victim (such as during the very ugly war with Japan in the 1930s; Japanese atrocities then matched anything experienced during the Second World War).

3. The Chinese state is increasingly assertive (some would say aggressive) in pursuing what it considers to be Chinese interests, and certainly, is a lot more confident and proactive in doing so. Economically, politically and militarily, it now matters, and not just in Asia.

4. As part of its increasing confidence, - internationally and domestically - it is dipping tentative toes into "cultural" matters. Those toes last touched upon cultural matters when the Chinese state launched the notorious Cultural Revolution with catastrophic consequences, in the 1960s. Since then, China has left culture pretty much alone, until now.

5. In China, this attack on "effeminate men", is, I would argue, aimed primarily at a domestic audience. This is a consequence of both increased confidence (the Chinese state feels it can confidently pronounce on such matters with authority for the first time since the disastrous Cultural Revolution), and growing concern about possible cultural threats, such as Hong Kong (which - by its very existence - offered an alternative - and far more attractive - model of how to be Chinese in a modern world, than was found on mainland China. Taiwan didn't really count, not to the same extent, as an "alternative" take on what could be considered to be "Chinese".)

6. And then, - and this is important, and is a significant difference between China (officially) promoting such views, and responses in western societies to variations on this theme (constructs of masculinity, toxic masculinity, effeminate men) - I would argue that this is an attempt - a state sponsored attempt - to counter the well worn (and tired) cultural trope whereby Asian men are depicted as - or, are assumed to be - effeminate by definition. Thus, the Chinese state wishes to challenge and counter this perception, (of Asian men, of Chinese men) by presenting and promoting what it considers to be "masculine" alternatives on state TV.

7. Finally, there is this almost clichéd "strong man" stuff, all too depressingly often found in (male) leaders of autocratic societies or cultures, where they must be seen to protest their masculinity - for, of course, they equate masculinity with leadership, virility, strength - to an almost ludicrous and patently and pathetically ridulous degree, a degree that approaches parody at times.
 
Last edited:

Herdfan

Resident Redneck
Posts
4,690
Reaction score
3,573
Not all of us missed "the point".

Nope. I was thinking of you when I wrote "most". ;)


Was reading an article today about Elon Musk's satellite based internet and how they have developed technology to bypass the need for as many ground stations because they can now use the satellites as a mesh network. This would allow them to beam internet into countries like China without it being censored by Chinese ISP's. That could be a game changer for the Chinese people. When asked about that possibility, Musk simlpy said they can go outside and shake their fists at the sky.
 
Last edited:

Herdfan

Resident Redneck
Posts
4,690
Reaction score
3,573
If that was your point, that’s probably what you should have written instead of that nonsense about “the left”….
Maybe but you are smart enough to have addressed the other part had you wanted to. But it is easier to kill the messenger vs deal with a message you may not like.
 

SuperMatt

Site Master
Posts
7,862
Reaction score
15,004
Maybe but you are smart enough to have addressed the other part had you wanted to. But it is easier to kill the messenger vs deal with a message you may not like.
What are you even talking about? There is no other part. You just wrote one sentence. THEN you got mad at everybody for not getting “the point.” We can’t read your mind. If you want to make a point, make it.
 

Herdfan

Resident Redneck
Posts
4,690
Reaction score
3,573
What are you even talking about? There is no other part. You just wrote one sentence. THEN you got mad at everybody for not getting “the point.” We can’t read your mind. If you want to make a point, make it.

Linked the article. And I didn't get mad.
 

SuperMatt

Site Master
Posts
7,862
Reaction score
15,004
Linked the article. And I didn't get mad.
If your point is the article, link it and don’t put bullshit anti-left commentary with it. The point is you decided to take a dig at the left. It’s been pointed out here that your dig was completely off-base and unfounded. Instead of conceding that point, you complain that everybody missed your point. It’s your own fault that everybody missed the point by obscuring it with attacks on “the left.”
 

Herdfan

Resident Redneck
Posts
4,690
Reaction score
3,573
If your point is the article, link it and don’t put bullshit anti-left commentary with it. The point is you decided to take a dig at the left. It’s been pointed out here that your dig was completely off-base and unfounded. Instead of conceding that point, you complain that everybody missed your point. It’s your own fault that everybody missed the point by obscuring it with attacks on “the left.”

I disagree that it is off-base. You have all these athletes and celebs fighting for social justice (which I think we can all agree is more left than right), yet are mostly silent about China. Lebron James screams oppression (I doubt he really knows what that is like), yet slurps up those millions he makes from from China and doesn't say a word.. Can't have it both ways.
 

Scepticalscribe

Cancelled
Posts
6,644
Reaction score
9,457
The Observer (nowadays, the Sunday companion paper to The Guardian - actually, originally, the oldest continually published Sunday paper in the world, it reported on Mozart's death in late 1791) had a fascinating article on that subject today.
 

Herdfan

Resident Redneck
Posts
4,690
Reaction score
3,573
The Observer (nowadays, the Sunday companion paper to The Guardian - actually, originally, the oldest continually published Sunday paper in the world, it reported on Mozart's death in late 1791) had a fascinating article on that subject today.

Link?
 

Alli

Perfection
Staff Member
Site Donor
Posts
5,889
Reaction score
11,792
Location
Alabackwards
I disagree that it is off-base. You have all these athletes and celebs fighting for social justice (which I think we can all agree is more left than right), yet are mostly silent about China. Lebron James screams oppression (I doubt he really knows what that is like), yet slurps up those millions he makes from from China and doesn't say a word.. Can't have it both ways.
Maybe he’s one of those who is trying to straighten things out at home before attempting to insist on other people straightening their homes.
 

Pumbaa

Verified Warthog
Posts
2,564
Reaction score
4,220
Location
Kingdom of Sweden
I disagree that it is off-base. You have all these athletes and celebs fighting for social justice (which I think we can all agree is more left than right), yet are mostly silent about China. Lebron James screams oppression (I doubt he really knows what that is like), yet slurps up those millions he makes from from China and doesn't say a word.. Can't have it both ways.
Now I’m confused. Wasn’t the whole point about China banning effeminate men and not about the left and China? Or was it China getting away with stuff people in the US would lose their shit about and no one cares? Or is it about individuals fighting for social justice in the US (a cause you associate with the US left) which is a fight you’re gatekeeping?

Funny thing is, most of you missed the whole point. it was not about the left and China, but China banning effeminate men.

I think it was a couple of years ago, maybe less, there was a thread on Toxic Masculinity on PRSI. Everyone was against it, well most everyone. Even talked about Gillette's commercial about it (I have not bought a Gillette razor since, Schick's are doing quite well.)

But here is an entire country that is basically saying we want toxic masculinity and here the focus is a little blurb about the left and China.

My point is China gets away with stuff that people in the US would lose their shit about and no one cares.
 
U

User.45

Guest
Now I’m confused. Wasn’t the whole point about China banning effeminate men and not about the left and China? Or was it China getting away with stuff people in the US would lose their shit about and no one cares? Or is it about individuals fighting for social justice in the US (a cause you associate with the US left) which is a fight you’re gatekeeping?
Point's shifting continuously.
 

SuperMatt

Site Master
Posts
7,862
Reaction score
15,004
I disagree that it is off-base. You have all these athletes and celebs fighting for social justice (which I think we can all agree is more left than right), yet are mostly silent about China. Lebron James screams oppression (I doubt he really knows what that is like), yet slurps up those millions he makes from from China and doesn't say a word.. Can't have it both ways.

This is a steaming pile of racist bullshit. I see it from white supremacists constantly. “Why doesn’t LeBron care about China?“ Well maybe there is some stuff happening in America that needs to be handled first?

It’s pretty fucking funny that the person you expect to do something about China is an American basketball player. What can LeBron James possibly do about problems in China?

I don’t see you calling for people who actually COULD have done something about it to account. Nope, you single out a black man who is fighting against discrimination towards other black people, and take a shit on him.

This is racism. Pure and f-ing simple. Plus, it’s boring and unoriginal. Every far-right rag has been twisting LeBron’s attempt to avoid controversy when he visited China into some “LeBron is a communist; I told you BLM is communism” nonsense. It’s old, tired, it’s been addressed, but they won’t let go. Why? Because it appeals to the racists.
 

ericwn

Site Champ
Posts
591
Reaction score
869
Since no one on the left seems to care about China's horrible human rights record, maybe this will get them fired up.


There is a left in the US? Good one!
It appears that pretty much the western world didn’t care enough about China and their track record until it could be politically Explosion the last few years when it became suddenly apparent that they’re too big and powerful and by definition them commies have no right to either.
 
Top Bottom
1 2