China's extreme lockdown measures

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I don't get why they're going so hard on lockdowns over there. It seems they're trying to achieve 0 Covid which is never, ever going to happen.
 

Eric

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I don't get why they're going so hard on lockdowns over there. It seems they're trying to achieve 0 Covid which is never, ever going to happen.
I think this is right on the money, it'll be like the common cold and we just need to learn to live with it. It will probably have an annual booster and be combined with the flu vaccine, seems like we're finally at a balanced point right now.
 

Edd

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I think this is right on the money, it'll be like the common cold and we just need to learn to live with it. It will probably have an annual booster and be combined with the flu vaccine, seems like we're finally at a balanced point right now.
China has to know this, right? I've been perplexed by their recent lockdowns, worried that they know something we don't but it doesn't seem that's the case. I've heard talk that the vaccines they used weren't as effective as ours but I don't know if that's true at all.
 

Eric

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China has to know this, right? I've been perplexed by their recent lockdowns, worried that they know something we don't but it doesn't seem that's the case. I've heard talk that the vaccines they used weren't as effective as ours but I don't know if that's true at all.
Actually, I hadn't thought of that but it does make sense. Scary thought.
 

SuperMatt

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I don't get why they're going so hard on lockdowns over there. It seems they're trying to achieve 0 Covid which is never, ever going to happen.
I listened to a detailed discussion of their situation yesterday.

Basically, China has refused all western vaccines, specifically the highly effective Moderna and Pfizer products. The vaccines they developed themselves are not very effective, and they haven’t rolled them out as widely as they should.

So, lockdowns are basically the only effective weapon in their arsenal. They use messages of patriotism to tell people they are helping the greater good by being locked down, and criticizing the American response as showing how selfish our society is. They aren’t wrong on that, but our public health strategy of using effective vaccines is a very good one, and in China could have been even more effective. After all, they have far more power to mandate vaccines than America does.
 

Eric

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I listened to a detailed discussion of their situation yesterday.

Basically, China has refused all western vaccines, specifically the highly effective Moderna and Pfizer products. The vaccines they developed themselves are not very effective, and they haven’t rolled them out as widely as they should.

So, lockdowns are basically the only effective weapon in their arsenal. They use messages of patriotism to tell people they are helping the greater good by being locked down, and criticizing the American response as showing how selfish our society is. They aren’t wrong on that, but our public health strategy of using effective vaccines is a very good one, and in China could have been even more effective. After all, they have far more power to mandate vaccines than America does.
Man are you fkn kidding me? I had no idea (this doesn't seem like mainstream knowledge) as we assume most of the industrialized world has access to these highly effective vaccines. Just wow man, hard to believe they would be so careless.
 

Nycturne

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Man are you fkn kidding me? I had no idea (this doesn't seem like mainstream knowledge) as we assume most of the industrialized world has access to these highly effective vaccines. Just wow man, hard to believe they would be so careless.

Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot though, if it was a Chinese company that produced highly effective vaccines, and the US was stuck with the J&J vaccine? We'd likely be justifying our use of the J&J vaccine and trying to hand wave away the Chinese made vaccines.

China and the US (or really any part of "the West") are not allies, and are trade partners out of the fact that China wants to grow their global power through trade, and we want cheap stuff. And with the previous US president being openly hostile towards China, I'm not that surprised they continue to be suspicious. Just as much as I think we should be a little less trusting and dependent on China in our trade relations for a variety of reasons.

So, lockdowns are basically the only effective weapon in their arsenal. They use messages of patriotism to tell people they are helping the greater good by being locked down, and criticizing the American response as showing how selfish our society is. They aren’t wrong on that, but our public health strategy of using effective vaccines is a very good one, and in China could have been even more effective. After all, they have far more power to mandate vaccines than America does.

Yeah, you just need to look towards Japan to see how things can play out. The cultures are similar in that they both are influenced by principles of Confucianism which includes respect for and more focus on the community, so there's similar capacity to get folks to vaccinate. The downside is that the state didn't push for vaccines until the Olympics were approaching, but boy did they catch up quick once they realized they needed to folks vaccinated ahead of the Olympics.

I do wonder how much of China's problem is also the sheer size.
 

SuperMatt

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Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot though, if it was a Chinese company that produced highly effective vaccines, and the US was stuck with the J&J vaccine? We'd likely be justifying our use of the J&J vaccine and trying to hand wave away the Chinese made vaccines.
I do not believe that would be the case, although I’m sure the anti-vax people would use that as yet another excuse.

Americans buy huge of amounts of stuff made in China without a second thought.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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On a positive note, these lockdowns are the major reason for the price of oil dropping due to the decreased demand. It's great we've all been benefitting from that at the pump. Oh wait.
 

Nycturne

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I do not believe that would be the case, although I’m sure the anti-vax people would use that as yet another excuse.

Americans buy huge of amounts of stuff made in China without a second thought.

One thing I failed to include in my post is ability to access a vaccine made in China. We'd not only be facing a stronger sentiment against the vaccine, but also the fun politics involved of working with China to get access to doses. It's unclear how willing China would be to cooperate with the US in this hypothetical scenario. We are having issues now making things difficult to get vaccine doses to developing nations, so who's to say we wouldn't be on the receiving end of that?

But point taken.
 

SuperMatt

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One thing I failed to include in my post is ability to access a vaccine made in China. We'd not only be facing a stronger sentiment against the vaccine, but also the fun politics involved of working with China to get access to doses. It's unclear how willing China would be to cooperate with the US in this hypothetical scenario. We are having issues now making things difficult to get vaccine doses to developing nations, so who's to say we wouldn't be on the receiving end of that?

But point taken.
You could definitely be right. When it comes to consumer goods, China is all about free trade. But if they developed the most successful vaccine, would they sell it? Who knows.

As for developing nations, the issue wasn’t solely getting them enough doses. It was helping them get those doses into people. Here’s an example of the distribution problems they face.

 

Roller

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I think this is right on the money, it'll be like the common cold and we just need to learn to live with it. It will probably have an annual booster and be combined with the flu vaccine, seems like we're finally at a balanced point right now.
It's highly unlikely that COVID-19 will ever be similar to the spectrum of upper respiratory infections often referred to as the common cold. Aside from persistent symptoms and long-term effects on health, it's impossible to predict that future variants won't cause more illness and death than Omicron or its sub-variants. I think over time, while vaccines will remain important, therapeutics will assume an ever-greater role, including meds that will neutralize the virus before it gains a foothold.

As others have pointed out, the vaccines developed in China weren't very effective, which severely hamstrung one of their government's best potential tools to fight the pandemic. I don't doubt that Chinese researchers have the ability to develop vaccines as effective as Moderna or Pfizer, and I suspect that's already underway, but it will take time. In the meantime, though, draconian lockdowns will cause more harm than good.
 

Herdfan

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Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot though, if it was a Chinese company that produced highly effective vaccines, and the US was stuck with the J&J vaccine? We'd likely be justifying our use of the J&J vaccine and trying to hand wave away the Chinese made vaccines.

I don't think so. We don't have the same mentality as a country as the CCP has towards their own. Our leaders probably wouldn't care as much where it came from as whether or not it was effective. The CCP is all China, all the time, so to let the public think some other country developed a better vaccine would certainly go against their principals.

As to the lockdowns, a friend of mine owns Extreme Metal Products in northern OH. They make aftermarket accessories for ATV's and SXS's. As such they have good relationships with their local motorsport' dealers to borrow models to measure and scan so their accessories fit. He posted in our riding group that because of the lockdowns in China, there will be no more Kawasaki Mules until possibly the 2024 model year. That machine is the workhorse of street departments, college campuses and any business that has property to take care of. This will most likely be felt in other industries as well.
 

Eric

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I don't think so. We don't have the same mentality as a country as the CCP has towards their own. Our leaders probably wouldn't care as much where it came from as whether or not it was effective. The CCP is all China, all the time, so to let the public think some other country developed a better vaccine would certainly go against their principals.

As to the lockdowns, a friend of mine owns Extreme Metal Products in northern OH. They make aftermarket accessories for ATV's and SXS's. As such they have good relationships with their local motorsport' dealers to borrow models to measure and scan so their accessories fit. He posted in our riding group that because of the lockdowns in China, there will be no more Kawasaki Mules until possibly the 2024 model year. That machine is the workhorse of street departments, college campuses and any business that has property to take care of. This will most likely be felt in other industries as well.
How are they making all those green iPhones?
 

fischersd

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For what it's worth, I think we're headed into a pretty nasty global recession. The high inflation rate, soaring price of gas (which is helping to drive inflation) and China's lockdowns are going to bring our global economy to a screeching halt.

Many businesses over here are dependent on products from China...just a matter of time until you see layoffs / shuttering of those businesses until we see resumptions in productivity.
 
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