Does the GOP even have an alternative to Trumpism?

[Eraserhead]

.

 

[User.45]

It’s not. The Chinese haven’t allowed an impartial investigation into the origins of the virus. There have been those into the fraud allegations.

No, that doesn't make the "virus from a lab" allegation any more credible. It's BS. It makes no sense, and there are myriads of much better explanations. So Occam's razor really shaves that bioweapons lab off.

 

[Eraserhead]

No, that doesn't make the "virus from a lab" allegation any more credible. It's BS. It makes no sense, and there are myriads of much better explanations. So Occam's razor really shaves that bioweapons lab off.

The chemical weapons lab is only a few hundred metres from the market the virus started at according to mainstream sources. So it’s not that implausible. All it would require is incompetence by staff at that lab and it could be true.

Most likely the truth is that the market had lax controls and/or was selling illegal meat and that it truly did start there. But the alternative isn’t absurd like Obama being born in Kenya is.

And to be honest a friend had some exotic meat in Hanoi and the whole setup seemed pretty dodgy to be honest.

 

[User.45]

Most likely the truth is that the market had lax controls and/or was selling illegal meat and that it truly did start there. But the alternative isn’t absurd like Obama being born in Kenya is.

And Obama's father is Kenyan. Boom, supporting evidence!

 

[Eraserhead]

And Obama's father is Kenyan. Boom, supporting evidence!

The difference is that there are birth records from the time and we trust the Hawaiian newspapers.

However the Chinese don’t have a free press and we don’t trust the Chinese government particularly.

 

[User.45]

The difference is that there are birth records from the time and we trust the Hawaiian newspapers.

However the Chinese don’t have a free press and we don’t trust the Chinese government particularly.

And we have genomic analyses published on SARS-CoV-2 refuting it's man-made...and we trust Nature. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7095063/)

A good con-theo will grab 2 half truths and puts them together to create a monster. Here, it's obvious that China won't allow/limit the investigation (they've given green light to it now). So an even better conspiracy theory is when one side can always find shelter in lack of disproof.

 

[Eraserhead]

And we have genomic analyses published on SARS-CoV-2 refuting it's man-made...and we trust Nature. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7095063/)

A good con-theo will grab 2 half truths and puts them together to create a monster. Here, it's obvious that China won't allow/limit the investigation (they've given green light to it now). So an even better conspiracy theory is when one side can always find shelter in lack of disproof.

This is a good point.

I certainly agree that a lot of the anti-China claims are mostly borne out of racism. The idea that China has had a significant number of cases since 1st April 2020 also seems completely implausible.

Let’s leave it here .

 

[User.45]

The idea that China has had a significant number of cases since 1st April 2020 also seems completely implausible.

You mean that they haven't had a significant number of cases? Yeah, their numbers make no sense whatsoever. To an extent, I've been ignoring them for a good while now.

The vast body of information they published in the medical literature early on (Jan-Feb 2020) was very well corroborated subsequently in March-May from the Western waves. I haven't read much of the Chinese medical literature (on COVID-19) since then.

It gets very difficult as to how to separate criticism for a government (CCP), vs. a people which is 15% (!!) of the current population of humanity.

 

[User.45]

I want to return to this, but, wearing my election specialist hat - I don't think that the 2016 election was rigged or manipulated, - not in the sense of casting or counting or certifying votes - other than by what we already know re Russia, James Comey's unfortunate - re timing - intervention, the BernieBros (just as many left wingers are privately anti-Semitic, though they attempt to disguise this by claiming to be anti-Zionist, many on the left are also deeply misogynistic), and the usual voter suppression tactics (VR - voters' registers, few polling precincts, the fact that those who have served time in prison have been deprived of the right to exercise the franchise upon their release, gerrymandering, campaign financing etc).

Can you elaborate on this antisemitism claim? I know plenty of jewish people who like Bernie. I've encountered no antisemitism in the left TBH. I also think singling people out based on these sentiments is incompatible with the idea of getting better care of people as a whole.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Can you elaborate on this antisemitism claim? I know plenty of jewish people who like Bernie. I've encountered no antisemitism in the left TBH. I also think singling people out based on these sentiments is incompatible with the idea of getting better care of people as a whole.

In this instance, I am not referring to the US left, on which I am not expert, and which has a very different history, and derives from a very different political culture, from that of the left in Europe.

But, in parts of Europe, things have been a bit different. Historically, parts of the political culture of both France and Russia were exceptionally - even, hysterically - anti-Semitic, though that came from the right, as were parts of Austrian society, and later still, as we well know, ant-Semitism found a home in German right wing circles.

However, in the (far) left in the UK (Labour under Jeremy Corbyn, and Corbyn was recenty expelled from the Parliamentary Labour Party in the UK because he refused to accept the results of an independent investigation, which concluded that the party tolerated and facilitated anti-Semitism on his watch, something he did little to address) and in Ireland, (Republic of Ireland) this has most certainly - in my experience - been an issue.

Again, in my experience, this is mostly disguised as a passionate anti-Zionism, but, (possibly dating from the days when wealthy capitalists/plutocrats - often identified with Jews - were classed as the ideological enemy) there is also a deeply rooted anti-Semitism in parts of the European Left.

 

[dogslobber]

However, in the (far) left in the UK (Labour under Jeremy Corbyn, and Corbyn was recenty expelled from the Parliamentary Labour Party in the UK because he refused to accept the results of an independent investigation, which concluded that the party tolerated and facilitated anti-Semitism on his watch, something he did little to address) and in Ireland, (Republic of Ireland) this has most certainly - in my experience - been an issue.

The Irish Constitution used to have a protectionist clause for Jews but it was removed at some point. It was pointedly added and kept by Eamon de Valera during the early years of the Irish Republic. I think there is a forest named after him in Israel to recognize what he did.

 

[User.45]

But, in parts of Europe, things have been a bit different. Historically, parts of the political culture of both France and Russia were exceptionally - even, hystericaly - anti-Semitic, though that came from the right, as were parts of Austrian society, and later still, as we well know, ant-Semitism found a home in German right wing circles.

Yeah, I know nothing of Corbyn's activity (or lack thereof). As you go east the more this pattern of the left being more pro-israel emerges. It's silly IMHO, the more blanket statements and generalizations you drop on a nation the more likely you're being wrong. This includes the USA, China or Israel.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The Irish Constitution used to have a protectionist clause for Jews but it was removed at some point. It was pointedly added and kept by Eamon de Valera during the early years of the Irish Republic. I think there is a forest named after him in Israel to recognize what he did.

The Irish constiution of 1937 used to have a clause - Art 44 - which recognised the "special position" of the Roman Catholic Church (for whom, this wasn't sufficient, for they wanted the RCC to be recognised as the official state church - or religion - of Ireland, - needless to say - Eamon de Valera was having none of that).

Alongside the 'special position' granted to the Catholic Church, recognition, and thus, protection, was also granted to all of the respective Protestant faiths, and to the Jewish faith.

When the clause (it was the old Article 44) granting the 'special position' of the Catholic Church was repealed - it was removed by referendum in 1972, - one of the first steps to formally reduce the power enjoyed by the Catholic Church - the other sections were also removed as they comprised part of that article.

 

[JayMysteri0]

An alternative? Why? They let the nutters in knowing who & what they are, and when it bites them in the ass act surprised. Unfortunately they opened the door of 'respectability' and more of these people will infest the party.

A story of sorts...

Comicsgate Figure Quits Republican Vice Chair After QAnon Gaffe

Edwin Boyette was a prominent figure a few years ago in the Comicsgate movement, an online activist group that campaigns, as Wikipedia puts it, "in

bleedingcool.com

Edwin Boyette was a prominent figure a few years ago in the Comicsgate movement, an online activist group that campaigns, as Wikipedia puts it, "in opposition to diversity and progressivism in North American superhero comic books".

Those who he "engaged" online may recall his replies in the form of a portrait shot video embedded in Tweets, his face taking up the whole screen, well-spoken but freaking some recipients out a bit. Those have all been deleted now, as has his own Twitter account, but they were the usual talking points, just with slightly less invective that you might find elsewhere. A few such comments remain on Bleeding Cool articles, including the time he got involved talking Comicsgate with Marvel's Joe Quesada, but the original posts and videos are long gone.

Comicsgate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you open the door to an individual who openly signals his disdain for others NOT like him, then promote him as they gladly take everything you give, they will eventually feel that what is your is their's as well.

He did fall out badly at various points with other prominent Comicsgate figures as the group began to eat itself. But this week, he came to greater prominence for his political work. Because it turns out that Edwin Boyette was indeed his real name, and he was also the Republican Vice-Chair of Communications in Hawaii.

And things may have gone slightly off the rails this week. On Sunday, Hawaii News Now reported that Edwin Boyette posted a series of tweets "that expressed support for QAnon conspiracy theorists" using the Hawaiian Republican Party Twitter account.

The now-deleted tweets stated that, while acknowledging that QAnon is false, that "People who followed Q don't deserve mockery, the world is a complex place, there are bad actors, injustice, corruption – the processes of justice and the mechanisms our Republic are slow by design, abuses and wrongs are always swifter than correction". Also "we should make it abundantly clear – the people who subscribed to the Q fiction, were largely motivated by a sincere and deep love for America. Patriotism and love of County should never be ridiculed." The story was picked by everyone from The Washington Examiner to the Daily Mail.

Now you have to own that shit. You can't welcome such shit stains into your home, then as it begins to stink, look around wondering where it's coming from. While these people will continue to move on & cash in, because at the end of the day, that has always been these nutters ( from former presidents down to media personalities ) primary goal.

Last year, Edwin Boyette stated that, regarding his career, "CG actually was a good prep for politics, and politics gave some insights in retrospect for CG".

In his Hawaii GOP tweets, he also described the emergence of Qanon: "As the Q phenomena caught on several personalities began to be able to monetize their broadcasts – through superchats, donations, and sales of merchandise. Once money entered the equation the broadcasts around Q became increasingly hyperbolic."

They start off happily embracing & announcing this stuff, and the party still welcomes in such people. As long as too many are okay with that, the GOP will have to hope these individuals eventually decide to make their own alternative to grift off of. The problem will be of course, will the GOP be left a decaying rotted corpse left behind to the likes of muscomitch's desperations with no young blood to energize voters as an alternative?

 

[Huntn]

An alternative? Why? They let the nutters in knowing who & what they are, and when it bites them in the ass act surprised. Unfortunately they opened the door of 'respectability' and more of these people will infest the party.

A story of sorts...





If you open the door to an individual who openly signals his disdain for others NOT like him, then promote him as they gladly take everything you give, they will eventually feel that what is your is their's as well.



Now you have to own that shit. You can't welcome such shit stains into your home, then as it begins to stink, look around wondering where it's coming from. While these people will continue to move on & cash in, because at the end of the day, that has always been these nutters ( from former presidents down to media personalities ) primary goal.



They start off happily embracing & announcing this stuff, and the party still welcomes in such people. As long as too many are okay with that, the GOP will have to hope these individuals eventually decide to make their own alternative to grift off of. The problem will be of course, will the GOP be left a decaying rotted corpse left behind to the likes of muscomitch's desperations with no young blood to energize voters as an alternative?

The problem is because they (Q) are willing to vote Republican they get special consideration from the desperate for love GOP, from any quarter they can get it. The dilemma is the crazies expect them to embrace their insanity, no matter how patriotic they regard themselves. The issue there is their version of patriotism.

 

[JayMysteri0]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1355561812184289283/

 

[Thomas Veil]

I'm tired of Republicans cowering in the face of Trump and his merry band of Q-tip heads.

Yes, the ones who voted for impeachment took correct, courageous action. But for God's sake, they shouldn't just sit down and shut up while the fanatics mouth off on Twitter and Fox News.

I want to see the Liz Cheneys and the Dan Newhouses stop playing defense and go on the offense and offer themselves to the talk shows and news programs so that they have a chance to ask Republicans why they let their MAGA faction talk to them like they're stupid. Why they offer their constituents nothing but conspiracies with no proof.

If genuine, non-crazy Republicans are likely to go down, they should go down swinging, calling their MAGA colleagues traitors, asking their constituents to join them in condemning treason, and being emphatic that this is the only course for true Americans.

And maybe the next time Liz Cheney happens to be passing Matt Gaetz while cameras are rolling nearby, she should give him a swift roundhouse kick to the nuts for good measure. I mean, anything goes nowadays, right?

 

[Thomas Veil]

Here’s a horrible thought...

July 2023: New York State wins a conviction against Donald Trump, and he goes to jail for six years.

October 2023: Trump’s fans begin acquiring signatures to get his name on the ballot in every state.

August 2024: At the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump is formally nominated for, and again wins, the nomination.

November 2024: Donald Trump, still in prison, wins the election.

January 2025: The Oval Office sits empty because... well, you know.

Don’t say it couldn’t happen.

 

[Eraserhead]

Here’s a horrible thought...

July 2023: New York State wins a conviction against Donald Trump, and he goes to jail for six years.

October 2023: Trump’s fans begin acquiring signatures to get his name on the ballot in every state.

August 2024: At the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump is formally nominated for, and again wins, the nomination.

November 2024: Donald Trump, still in prison, wins the election.

January 2025: The Oval Office sits empty because... well, you know.

Don’t say it couldn’t happen.

He won’t win again. For a start he’s a loser now (and will be much more of a loser in prison). Plus are Americans who voted for Biden really not going to vote Democratic for a second term given how much better already Biden has been than Trump was?

 

[Thomas Veil]

You’re making the mistake of thinking logically. Where have you been the last four years?