Electric Vehicles: General topics

[quagmire]

Guess Rivian decided to take that page out of Tesla's customer service handbook.....

 

[DT]

I'm seeing people saying they wound up with an $18,000 to $22,000 price increase __and__ they're being told their existing order, from months ago, due to be delivered soon, is also getting the price increase.

Like I guy had a $78K truck ordered, being told a delivery in 2 months, but it's now $90K, that's pretty insane.

 

[Eric]

Sentry Mode is one of the best features of the Tesla.

 

[DT]

Sentry Mode is one of the best features of the Tesla.

I should probably use it more than I do. Especially around town where there's no long[er] term battery concern.

 

[Eric]

I should probably use it more than I do. Especially around town where there's no long[er] term battery concern.

The only complaint I have about it is that it turns on even when I'm at home (I do have it set to not turn on when at home or work in the settings) but half the time it still turns on anyway and I just manually shut it off in the app. it's an attached garage right next to the living area but it's still buggy I think.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Sentry mode has been handy for us - most of the time it's someone that gets too close to the car, the car blinks its lights, they look at the car in confusion and back off. We had to set a home location in the map app before it would allow us to not set sentry mode for home (since it's in a garage) - but we leave it on for work (college).

 

[DT]

The only complaint I have about it is that it turns on even when I'm at home (I do have it set to not turn on when at home or work in the settings) but half the time it still turns on anyway and I just manually shut it off in the app. it's an attached garage right next to the living area but it's still buggy I think.

Maybe a funky geo-fencing? Have you tried setting home up again?

 

[DT]

OK, looks like the CEO of Rivian walked that back, I'm not sure how much damage was done, both in terms of actual lost orders/revenue and general PR, but this is certainly what existing order holders wanted to hear:

Hello Everyone,

Earlier this week, we announced pricing increases that broke the trust we have worked to build with you. Since originally setting our pricing structure, and most especially in recent months, a lot has changed. The costs of the components and materials that go into building our vehicles have risen considerably. Everything from semiconductors to sheet metal to seats has become more expensive and with this we have seen average new vehicle pricing across the U.S. rise more than 30% since 2018. Given our build lead up times, we need to plan production costs not only for today, but also for the future.

As we worked to update pricing to reflect these cost increases, we wrongly decided to make these changes apply to all future deliveries, including pre-existing configured preorders. We failed to appreciate how you viewed your configuration as price locked, and we wrongly assumed the announced Dual-Motor and Standard battery pack would provide configurations that would deliver price points similar to your original configuration. While this was the logic, it was wrong and we broke your trust in Rivian.

We also didn’t manage communications well. We didn’t give you enough insight into what was driving these decisions. The most important aspect of what we are building is our relationship with all of you. As we demonstrated earlier this week, trust is hard to build and easy to break. In speaking with many of you over the last two days, I fully realize and acknowledge how upset many of you felt. I have made a lot of mistakes since starting Rivian more than 12 years ago, but this one has been the most painful. I am truly sorry and committed to rebuilding your trust.

One of the things we talk about a lot internally is that we will make mistakes – it’s part of building something complex. The key is to learn from them and address them when they are made. It is how we grow. We made a mistake in how we approached our pricing changes, and what is important now is that we fix it.

For anyone with a Rivian preorder as of the March 1 pricing announcement, your original configured price will be honored. If you canceled your preorder on or after March 1 and would like to reinstate it, we will restore your original configuration, pricing and delivery timing. Our team will be sending an email in the next few days with more details.

Regarding our updated pricing for future preorders, the introduction of our Dual-Motor configuration and Standard battery pack has been designed to enable us to maintain lower starting prices while adjusting the pricing of the Quad-Motor and larger battery packs to reflect rising costs. Building a durable business is core to the continued impact we can deliver as a company. We are focused on building a brand and products that will continue to scale to different vehicle sizes, use cases, price points and markets – this growth will only be possible with your support and continued feedback.

Thank you for the personal notes and discussions I had with so many of you. Your feedback makes us better.

RJ

 

[rdrr]

With the unreasonable gas price increases the past week, I am really tired of the insta price increase due to (political or economical issue X). It's such B.S. /rant off

I have been eyeing the Ioniq 5 for a while and had some general questions if this the right car for me, or if EV cars are.

Q. Has anyone taken advantage of the 2 year, 30 minute unlimited charging from the Electrify America partnership, when you buy an Ioniq 5? Wondering what he strings attached are.

More a of a preamble to this next question. I am a nervous nelly when I get below 54 miles to go on my ICE vehicle and am starting to look for the cheapest gas around my area that is convenient to me. Q. How low do people push their remaining charge? And I assume that having a recharge area on my side of the highway will be a thing of the past.

Finally, Q. How long did it take for you to factor in and make apart of your routine, for the 30 minutes - 1 hour of charge time you have to take during your trips or weekly schedule? What do you do to kill the time?

 

[BigMcGuire]

With the unreasonable gas price increases the past week, I am really tired of the insta price increase due to (political or economical issue X). It's such B.S. /rant off

I have been eyeing the Ioniq 5 for a while and had some general questions if this the right car for me, or if EV cars are.

Q. Has anyone taken advantage of the 2 year, 30 minute unlimited charging from the Electrify America partnership, when you buy an Ioniq 5? Wondering what he strings attached are.

More a of a preamble to this next question. I am a nervous nelly when I get below 54 miles to go on my ICE vehicle and am starting to look for the cheapest gas around my area that is convenient to me. Q. How low do people push their remaining charge? And I assume that having a recharge area on my side of the highway will be a thing of the past.

Finally, Q. How long did it take for you to factor in and make apart of your routine, for the 30 minutes - 1 hour of charge time you have to take during your trips or weekly schedule? What do you do to kill the time?

My wife and I got fed up with $5/gal and got a used electric vehicle on the 20th of last month. We live in an apartment complex so we're surviving off of wall charging (and free university wall charging) (5-6mi/hr).

Our charging stats so far (big red line in middle was a long road trip we did). Other is free (university charging) - so that's why there's a bit of a $ skew.

No more spending 1 hour a week in a Costco gas line. I will not miss it.

To answer your question? Charging at the Tesla supercharger - we had just enough time to grab a bite to eat, take a leak, and we come back to a nearly fully charged car. All the 3rd party stations we've tried to charge at required a $400-$600 adapter to work with them so ... yeah... no thanks.

But like you, I usually kept my tank full - even if I had to fill it after a short trip. We can usually keep our Tesla at 150-250 miles fairly easy with our driving schedule (110 miles every 2 days) with normal wall charging. If we were able to install an EV charger at home (like most EV owners I know) - we could fully charge our car in a handful of hours (or 2-3 from half full).

Now? We just leave our car charging at the wall all the time when not in use - and it really hasn't affected us at all. Long trips? 15 min Tesla supercharging will take you from 7% to 80%.

 

[DT]

Finally, Q. How long did it take for you to factor in and make apart of your routine, for the 30 minutes - 1 hour of charge time you have to take during your trips or weekly schedule? What do you do to kill the time?

Home charging.

There is no 30-60 minutes stops for me, I'm always charged from home. If I had to commute, let's say up to Jacksonville, about 70 miles round trip, I'd be charged from overnight, drive to work, drive home plug in, done.

It really is an entirely different usage model. Now, if you can't accommodate home charging, the conversation is a bit different (also assuming your primary daily mileage is work where you also don't have a charger).

We're headed to Savannah, I might just Supercharge on the way, so we don't have to even think about it till we get home, we'd hit the Pooler SuC, in about 10 minutes we'll be topped off, we'll park, and in a few days drive home ~150 miles, without any stopping

 

[BigMcGuire]

Home charging.

There is no 30-60 minutes stops for me, I'm always charged from home. If I had to commute, let's say up to Jacksonville, about 70 miles round trip, I'd be charged from overnight, drive to work, drive home plug in, done.

It really is an entirely different usage model. Now, if you can't accommodate home charging, the conversation is a bit different (also assuming your primary daily mileage is work where you also don't have a charger).

We're headed to Savannah, I might just Supercharge on the way, so we don't have to even think about it till we get home, we'd hit the Pooler SuC, in about 10 minutes we'll be topped off, we'll park, and in a few days drive home ~150 miles, without any stopping

Yep, never have had a 30-60 min stop. But may be unique due to Tesla? Most of the EVAmerica chargers I see are 150kw so they should be pretty fast (here in CA).

Yesterday we drove to the university and put 120+ miles on the car (went to grocery store after). And right now, after charging all day yesterday, overnight:

We'll be 85% charged in 5 hours (I really don't even need to charge it). My wife will drive to university tomorrow and charge all day at the university - will add +72 miles.

And yes, we named our car after a wonderful Star Trek character .

 

[DT]

I grabbed the legal from the free charging that's included with the Ioniq 5:

Available on new 2022 IONIQ 5 Electric vehicles purchased from an authorized U.S.-based (excluding Alaska) Hyundai dealer on or before December 31, 2023. Two years of unlimited 30-minute complimentary charging sessions from the date of purchase at Electrify America charging stations Non-transferable. Not available for commercial use, such as ridesharing. Requires Electrify America account, app, acceptance of Terms of Use, and enrollment in Hyundai Premium Charging plan. After user-initiated charge session stop or vehicle reaches full charge or charging otherwise stops, and 10-min grace period, Idle Fees will apply and user is responsible. In the event of suspected fraud or abuse or other unforeseen events, Hyundai Motor America may discontinue or modify the offer in its sole discretion.

Doesn't seem like there's any tricky language, they limit charging to 30 minutes per session, but the Ioniq charges fast, so that seems like plenty. I'm assuming, there's no required time between sessions, like you could charge for 30, unplug, go get a coffee, come back, plug in again for another 30 minutes.

 

[SuperMatt]

With the unreasonable gas price increases the past week, I am really tired of the insta price increase due to (political or economical issue X). It's such B.S. /rant off

Ever notice that when oil prices go up, they immediately raise gas prices, but when oil prices go down, they always keep the prices high for a while and say “well it takes a while for oil to be made into gas and get to the pump”?

 

[SuperMatt]

More a of a preamble to this next question. I am a nervous nelly when I get below 54 miles to go on my ICE vehicle and am starting to look for the cheapest gas around my area that is convenient to me. Q. How low do people push their remaining charge? And I assume that having a recharge area on my side of the highway will be a thing of the past.

The mileage remaining indicator on EVs is much more accurate than the one on gas vehicles, IMHO. I wouldn’t trust it to the exact mile, but if it says you have 50 miles left, you probably have at least 40.

I would not take an EV on a long road trip without planning out the charging first. You can’t just drive merrily on your way and assume you’ll hit a charging point by luck. The US infrastructure plan is supposed to add 500,000 more chargers. That should help with that problem, but it will take a while. I’ve had an EV for 6 years, and Plugshare is the best resource I've found, and it works with CarPlay too.

 

[DT]

Yeah, @SuperMatt has an important point about heading out without planning on a (more than your range) road trip. In addition to PlugShare, I'd very highly recommend A Better Route Planner:

ABRP

ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

It's free (pay version too, not really needed), it has mapping, charge/route planning, all sort of things like stop information (places to eat, etc.) projected costs, and a database of vehicles for mileage reference.

 

[rdrr]

ABRP

ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

Holy crap that planner is awesome. Thanks!

 

[DT]

Holy crap that planner is awesome. Thanks!

Yeah, knocking around in that app was definitely part of my decision making process. It really let me get my head around the logistics of longer range travel, and how it wasn't a big deal.

There's both the website I linked to and iOS iPadOS apps, and a Watch App too, though I've never used it (I think it's more for real-time navigation).

 

[cloudflare420]

I grabbed the legal from the free charging that's included with the Ioniq 5:

Available on new 2022 IONIQ 5 Electric vehicles purchased from an authorized U.S.-based (excluding Alaska) Hyundai dealer on or before December 31, 2023. Two years of unlimited 30-minute complimentary charging sessions from the date of purchase at Electrify America charging stations Non-transferable. Not available for commercial use, such as ridesharing. Requires Electrify America account, app, acceptance of Terms of Use, and enrollment in Hyundai Premium Charging plan. After user-initiated charge session stop or vehicle reaches full charge or charging otherwise stops, and 10-min grace period, Idle Fees will apply and user is responsible. In the event of suspected fraud or abuse or other unforeseen events, Hyundai Motor America may discontinue or modify the offer in its sole discretion.

Doesn't seem like there's any tricky language, they limit charging to 30 minutes per session, but the Ioniq charges fast, so that seems like plenty. I'm assuming, there's no required time between sessions, like you could charge for 30, unplug, go get a coffee, come back, plug in again for another 30 minutes.

I think there’s a 60-min grace period between sessions now. I remember it from some Ioniq5 video on YouTube.

Shouldn’t be an issue as long as you go to a 350kW EA charger

 

[User.45]

It's a general comment, but looking seriously into MachE premium and Ioniq5 limited and I'm just frustrated. Most dealers have really obnoxious markups, and the actual car is nowhere near the advertised price. Ioniq 5 costs 56-57K, Mach E premium is like 60K. For 50K I get a long-range model 3 that can do 351 miles with the Tesla network at my disposal. These stupid cars lose none of their (perceived) value as of yet, whereas I really doubt that's gonna be the case with either ford's or hyundai's EVs. At the trigger level it really boils down to who I hate more, car dealers or Musk.