Georgia Senate race cliffhanger

SuperMatt said:
When are the new Senators officially seated?
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As soon as Georgia's secretary of state certifies the election. As it appears both candidates have margins that exceeded the recount requirement threshold, that should be a matter of a few days at most, but certainly before Biden and Harris are sworn in.

As for Alex Padilla, replacing Harris, he gets sworn into the Senate when she relinquishes her Senate seat for the Vice Presidency. She has not resigned yet and was recently needed in a vote to help block Judy Shelton's appointment to the Federal Reserve (a vote in which several GOP senators crossed over to effect the block).

There is no set time when a VP-elect resigns a Senate seat. Biden when stepping up to the VP slot for Obama had just been re-elected to the Senate and resigned only five days before inauguration as VP. The current VP Mike Pence, elected in 2016, was stepping up from governor of Indiana; he did not resign that post but was merely replaced by mechanism of his successor's swearing in on Jan 9th, 2017.
 
I'm also very struck by the fact that yesterday's lunatic and dangerous dramatics will have taken (public, media, headline) attention away from the two stunning Democrat Senate victories in Georgia.

With that in mind, I truly believe that there is nothing - and, I mean nothing (a nuclear bomb on Iran, anyone?) - that the loathsome Mr Trump - who is an absolute moral monster - would not do on January 20, to snatch headlines, and demand attention, and thereby draw media public and international - attention away from Mr Biden's inauguration.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
I'm also very struck by the fact that yesterday's lunatic and dangerous dramatics will have taken (public, media, headline) attention away from the two stunning Democrat Senate victories in Georgia.

With that in mind, I truly believe that there is nothing - and, I mean nothing (a nuclear bomb on Iran, anyone?) - that the loathsome Mr Trump - who is an absolute moral monster - would not do on January 20, to snatch headlines, and demand attention, and thereby draw media public and international - attention away from Mr Biden's inauguration.
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I too was disappointed that the flip of the Senate was largely lost in the chaos of yesterday. I can't blame the media all things considered but I hope, when Raffensberger certifies the GA results, that newspapers of record will accord far more coverage to a profound change in how Georgia will now be represented in the US Senate.

And I'm very concerned now about media coverage of the inauguration. I wasn't, really, until Trump started tweeting about the January 6th joint session of Congress. I had not thought his advisers would be unable to deter him from doing something that unwise and so close to an act of sedition.

Then after what actually happened yesterday, I don't even understand why Trump's still in office or at least not separated immediately from his powers by a 25A temporary removal with Pence stepping up

And why doesn't Twitter simply announce Trump's official account is suspended for the duration of his term (and of cose preserved intact since it is part of his administrations official archives)? He cannot use it after Biden is sworn in. He should not be able to use it if he is removed "temporarily" in the meantime with Pence stepping up. So he'll have to fend for himself with a new account if he's allowed back onto the platform at all.

Some say reluctance to 25A-remove Trump is because "his base" won't accept his removal from office. For the love of God. His base is not the population of the United States of America and the VP and Cabinet have duties they are failing to step up and perform.

We don't really know who Trump's base is. He doesn't either. Who pretends to know who all supports Trump is either a liar or ignorant. And not meaning to insult but to pity ordinary fans of the man, his rallygoers could have been a collection of cardboard puppets or dolls and a recorded laugh/applause/boo track for all they really mattered to Donald Trump.

We do know who some of the antidemocratic "followers" of Donald Trump are. They showed up yesterday attacking our Capitol and photographing themselves doing it. But as alarming as they were, they are likely the least of our concerns about who has supported Trump's undermining of our ability to govern ourselves democratically, since before he was even elected.

Trump called the EV count of 306-232 a landslide when he and Pence won that count versus Clinton-Kaine in 2016, and the number happened to be the same as in his loss to Biden-Harris now.

So that was a landslide by his own description... and the pop vote win went to Biden as well. It always bothered Trump that Clinton won the pop vote in 2016 so one can only imagine how it bothers him in 2020 to have lost both the EV and popular vote counts. One of Trump's first monumental post-election lies was that he had won the pop vote in 2016, not lost it by 3 million votes. He claimed falsely that "11 million illegal immigrants" had voted for his opponent....

But Trump has claimed he won the whole thing in 2020 in a landslide that is now stolen from him... even after the early morning Congressional confirmation today of Biden's victory. Trump had repeated those lies and on that basis incited his followers to go hassle Congress during that formal acceptance of the certified electoral votes.

So how can we imagine that left to his own devices and with the powers he still has at this moment, Trump will not at least attempt to destroy the celebration of Joe Biden's inauguration 13 days from now? He cannot be permitted to do that and I expect Congress to see to that if Pence and the Trump cabinet won't rise to their duty. For that reason alone I support another impeachment even though time runs short to process it, and even though I dislike prospects of popular unrest if he is removed in that manner.

It would actually serve the country far better if [the shreds of] Trump's own party removed this disgracefully unfit and incompetent President from office for the last 13 days. The USA and planet do not deserve having to live through the anxiety of wondering what he might incite his followers to do while he still may have the power to command "high crimes and misdemeanors" at will. The VP and Trump's cabinet are entirely capable of preventing such mischief.

The Biden-Harris ticket won the electoral vote contest and they will be sworn in on January 20. More than half the country wants to celebrate that occasion, even in the muted fashion required by the covid pandemic. It's not right for Congress or Pence or Trump's cabinet to kowtow in the meantime to their own projected fears of a shadowy Trump base that imagines itself to be the entirety of Americans engaging in consent to self-governance.
 
lizkat said:
I too was disappointed that the flip of the Senate was largely lost in the chaos of yesterday. I can't blame the media all things considered but I hope, when Raffensberger certifies the GA results, that newspapers of record will accord far more coverage to a profound change in how Georgia will now be represented in the US Senate.

And I'm very concerned now about media coverage of the inauguration. I wasn't, really, until Trump started tweeting about the January 6th joint session of Congress. I had not thought his advisers would be unable to deter him from doing something that unwise and so close to an act of sedition.

Then after what actually happened yesterday, I don't even understand why Trump's still in office or at least not separated immediately from his powers by a 25A temporary removal with Pence stepping up

And why doesn't Twitter simply announce Trump's official account is suspended for the duration of his term (and of cose preserved intact since it is part of his administrations official archives)? He cannot use it after Biden is sworn in. He should not be able to use it if he is removed "temporarily" in the meantime with Pence stepping up. So he'll have to fend for himself with a new account if he's allowed back onto the platform at all.

Some say reluctance to 25A-remove Trump is because "his base" won't accept his removal from office. For the love of God. His base is not the population of the United States of America and the VP and Cabinet have duties they are failing to step up and perform.

We don't really know who Trump's base is. He doesn't either. Who pretends to know who all supports Trump is either a liar or ignorant. And not meaning to insult but to pity ordinary fans of the man, his rallygoers could have been a collection of cardboard puppets or dolls and a recorded laugh/applause/boo track for all they really mattered to Donald Trump.

We do know who some of the antidemocratic "followers" of Donald Trump are. They showed up yesterday attacking our Capitol and photographing themselves doing it. But as alarming as they were, they are likely the least of our concerns about who has supported Trump's undermining of our ability to govern ourselves democratically, since before he was even elected.

Trump called the EV count of 306-232 a landslide when he and Pence won that count versus Clinton-Kaine in 2016, and the number happened to be the same as in his loss to Biden-Harris now.

So that was a landslide by his own description... and the pop vote win went to Biden as well. It always bothered Trump that Clinton won the pop vote in 2016 so one can only imagine how it bothers him in 2020 to have lost both the EV and popular vote counts. One of Trump's first monumental post-election lies was that he had won the pop vote in 2016, not lost it by 3 million votes. He claimed falsely that "11 million illegal immigrants" had voted for his opponent....

But Trump has claimed he won the whole thing in 2020 in a landslide that is now stolen from him... even after the early morning Congressional confirmation today of Biden's victory. Trump had repeated those lies and on that basis incited his followers to go hassle Congress during that formal acceptance of the certified electoral votes.

So how can we imagine that left to his own devices and with the powers he still has at this moment, Trump will not at least attempt to destroy the celebration of Joe Biden's inauguration 13 days from now? He cannot be permitted to do that and I expect Congress to see to that if Pence and the Trump cabinet won't rise to their duty. For that reason alone I support another impeachment even though time runs short to process it, and even though I dislike prospects of popular unrest if he is removed in that manner.

It would actually serve the country far better if [the shreds of] Trump's own party removed this disgracefully unfit and incompetent President from office for the last 13 days. The USA and planet do not deserve having to live through the anxiety of wondering what he might incite his followers to do while he still may have the power to command "high crimes and misdemeanors" at will. The VP and Trump's cabinet are entirely capable of preventing such mischief.

The Biden-Harris ticket won the electoral vote contest and they will be sworn in on January 20. More than half the country wants to celebrate that occasion, even in the muted fashion required by the covid pandemic. It's not right for Congress or Pence or Trump's cabinet to kowtow in the meantime to their own projected fears of a shadowy Trump base that imagines itself to be the entirety of Americans engaging in consent to self-governance.
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Excellent post.

If the sticky and chubby fingers of that malevolent menace (Mr Trump) cannot be removed from office by January 20 (though that must beg the inevitable question of why ever not?), perhaps, at the very least, (in the interest of national security) those selfsame sticky and chubby fingers could - perhaps - be removed from the levers of power before then.

Of course, Mr Trump will do everything remaining in his power to destroy, disrupt, damage, the celebration of Mr Biden's inauguration less thna a fortnight from now.

He cannot not try to do that, - it is his basest and most fundamental character trait, Scorpion crossing river time - and it is imperative that plans are made to address and anticipate this nihilistic, destructive and profoundly anti-democratic impulse.
 
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Scepticalscribe said:
Excellent post.

If the sticky and chubby fingers of that malevolent menace (Mr Trump) cannot be removed from office by January 20 (though that must beg the inevitable question of why ever not?), perhaps, at the very least, (in the interest of national security) those selfsame sticky and chubby fingers could - perhaps - be removed from the levers of power before then.

Of course, Mr Trump will do everything remaining in his power to destroy, disrupt, damage, the celebration of Mr Biden's inauguration less thna a fortnight from now.

He cannot not try to do that, - it is his basest and most fundamental character trait, Scorpion crossing river time - and it is imperative that plans are made to address and anticipate this nihilistic, destructive and profoundly anti-democratic impulse.
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They should just unplug his phones and rotate a dwindling crew of babysitters to keep him occupied. Let the conservative Senators now so concerned as to urge that staff like WH Counsel and etc remain to "stabilize" the sitting government take a few shifts with this guy Trump and then ask themselves why they let this go for so long.

In the meantime I want to celebrate with Georgia and I resent that all this stuff overrides by necessity our national focus at this time. I fully expect festivities to be held at some point in future. Imma throw a party here for sure. Flipping the Senate blue is a big step towards enabling a proper recovery from covid for the USA.
 
Just for the record, Georgia officially certified the victories of Warnock and Ossoff today, one day before the inauguration of Joe Biden as US President and Kamala Harris as Vice President. Harris resigned her seat in the Senate yesterday, and is expected to swear in her successor tomorrow after her own inauguration. He is Alex Padilla ( a Democrat appointed by California governor Newsom). At that point the Senate is officially 50-50 with Harris as the tie breaking blue vote if required. Thank you Georgia!


yep it's real the Senate is blue.jpg
 
lizkat said:
Just for the record, Georgia officially certified the victories of Warnock and Ossoff today, one day before the inauguration of Joe Biden as US President and Kamala Harris as Vice President. Harris resigned her seat in the Senate yesterday, and is expected to swear in her successor tomorrow after her own inauguration. He is Alex Padilla ( a Democrat appointed by California governor Newsom). At that point the Senate is officially 50-50 with Harris as the tie breaking blue vote if required. Thank you Georgia!


View attachment 2881
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Read this in the Guardian earlier tonight, and.......smiled. With no small amount of happiness.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
It was brilliant.

I couldn't keep the grin off my face.
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And so after Schumer and McConnell tie the bows on their power-sharing arrangement re committees and all that, on to the business of confirming the rest of Biden's cabinet picks and passing any urgent covid-related measures and... handling receipt of Trump's second impeachment whenever the House decides to bring it to the Senate for a trial.

Will be interesting to see how it all sits with McConnell as these early days of the Biden administration go by. McConnell gets to contemplate the state of his party having lost executive and legislative branch control under Trump, plus his own demotion to minority leader, the Trump-incited insurrection and a pending second trial on new charges of a guy they had all tried to ride to a permanent extension of power.

I wonder sometimes has it sunk into these GOP Senators' heads yet that there were people actually hunting the government's line of succession and entire Congress assembled under one roof on January 6th. McConnell has said he wouldn't whip an eventual Senate vote to convict on Trump's 2nd impeachment, which is only proper since the Senators are supposed to approach such a vote on the evidence with an open mind.

But there are a lot of things McConnell never broadcasts while sounding out the sense of his caucus and possibly imparting his own views in private.

If it were not for questions about who now remains in a pro-Trump voting base out there in the country at large, I would not be surprised to see Mitch decide that healing the party's fissures is not possible or even desirable now, and so maybe time to try to drive the wedge home and cast the pro-Trumpers out while that January 6th insurrection is still fresh in everyone's mind. The whole party leadership seems to fear Trump's unruly base though, so Cruz and Hawley might just end up a couple of censured scapegoats in the Senate and "life goes on".

Cruz would doubtless like to make just Hawley the goat, if he can manage it. Heh, this from a guy whose peers loathed him long before now.

Anyway the infighting will be interesting. It can feel very different taking on a minority leader compared to the reluctance of anyone to go up against McConnell in his prior post.
 
lizkat said:
And so after Schumer and McConnell tie the bows on their power-sharing arrangement re committees and all that, on to the business of confirming the rest of Biden's cabinet picks and passing any urgent covid-related measures and... handling receipt of Trump's second impeachment whenever the House decides to bring it to the Senate for a trial.

Will be interesting to see how it all sits with McConnell as these early days of the Biden administration go by. McConnell gets to contemplate the state of his party having lost executive and legislative branch control under Trump, plus his own demotion to minority leader, the Trump-incited insurrection and a pending second trial on new charges of a guy they had all tried to ride to a permanent extension of power.

I wonder sometimes has it sunk into these GOP Senators' heads yet that there were people actually hunting the government's line of succession and entire Congress assembled under one roof on January 6th. McConnell has said he wouldn't whip an eventual Senate vote to convict on Trump's 2nd impeachment, which is only proper since the Senators are supposed to approach such a vote on the evidence with an open mind.

But there are a lot of things McConnell never broadcasts while sounding out the sense of his caucus and possibly imparting his own views in private.

If it were not for questions about who now remains in a pro-Trump voting base out there in the country at large, I would not be surprised to see Mitch decide that healing the party's fissures is not possible or even desirable now, and so maybe time to try to drive the wedge home and cast the pro-Trumpers out while that January 6th insurrection is still fresh in everyone's mind. The whole party leadership seems to fear Trump's unruly base though, so Cruz and Hawley might just end up a couple of censured scapegoats in the Senate and "life goes on".

Cruz would doubtless like to make just Hawley the goat, if he can manage it. Heh, this from a guy whose peers loathed him long before now.

Anyway the infighting will be interesting. It can feel very different taking on a minority leader compared to the reluctance of anyone to go up against McConnell in his prior post.
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Well, I think that this has most certainly sunk into the heads, hearts, and minds of both Mitch McConnell and of Mike Pence - that, plus the fact that Donald Trump was entirely unconcerned about their well-being and quite indifferent to their fate. Thta was the day that they learned that their loyalty counted for nothing with that moral monster.

However, whether this conclusion has yet dawned on some of their Republican colleagues is an entirely separate matter. They say that shock can be delayed.
 
theSeb said:
Well, I hope that the below comes true, since it would allow the GOP to easily distance themselves from Trump and those within the ranks who still support him can move along to the Patriot Party. In some ways, I think this could be a good thing for the US as a whole too.

President Trump considers forming Patriot party | One America News Network

Breaking News, Latest News and Current News from OANN.com. Breaking news and video. Latest Current News: U.S., World, Entertainment, Health, Business, Technology, Politics, Sports.
www.oann.com www.oann.com

Also, yesterday there was not a single mention of Biden being inaugurated on the front page of this reputable news source. There was only a story about how one of Biden's picks would increase the debt. As if Trump has not done that.
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It was one of the very first things Trump did! Revisionist history, it is a fun hobby.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
Well, I think that this has most certainly sunk into the heads, hearts, and minds of both Mitch McConnell and of Mike Pence - that, plus the fact that Donald Trump was entirely unconcerned about their well-being and quite indifferent to their fate. Thta was the day that they learned that their loyalty counted for nothing with that moral monster.

However, whether this conclusion has yet dawned on some of their Republican colleagues is an entirely separate matter. They say that shock can be delayed.
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i think a lot of them aren’t that bright.
 

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