How can there not be a COVID-19 thread?

Herdfan said:
"I agree". :eek:
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The only reasonable response to this is saying "I agree" and not mentioning it again.
For a well-adapted adult, things like this become boring quickly and later they start feeling vicarious embarrassment.

The first thing mom taught me when I started school was, if other kids (bullies) are calling me names, I shouldn't react. Once I mastered it, giving an unexpected response gave me back control of situations immediately. Smarter bullies tried to come up with new stuff. The dumb ones just repeated the same over and over and desperately high-fived themselves in the process.

As you can see, this brings me memories.
 
P_X said:
One of my collaborators is in Sweden right now and we got a chuckle about the stark difference in COVID precautions the moment he enters Denmark...
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Speaking of Denmark…

Denmark's daily infection total exceeded 15,000 for the first time, with health authorities registering 16,164 Covid-19 cases in 24 hours.

The country of 5.8 million people has the world's highest infection rate, with 1,612 cases per 100,000 people.
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www.livemint.com

Denmark, Iceland report record Covid cases as Omicron surges

Both Nordic nations had some of Europe's lowest infection rates before Omicron's arrival.
www.livemint.com
 
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shadow puppet said:
Wait. WHUT?!!
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I was a little facetious, but sadly just a little bit, early on (Feb 2020) it was clear that mortality was ~15% in the elderly population and thus the vast majority of casualties would be retirement age. So their policy on non-intervention was a sacrifice of the elderly, to favor the working age. They'll save a lot of money on not having to pay social security costs for those who died many years earlier than expected due to COVID.
 
P_X said:
Xmas is a superspreader event. They also probably have to live their masks to understand each other. Sorry, bad joke.
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:mrgreen:

P_X said:
By the way, Anybody’s praise of Sweden’s decision to euthanize their elderly in 2020 still pisses me off.
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Haven’t seen much (or any) of that praise locally but I can imagine certain outside groups being stupid like that. The “grandparents wouldn’t want to sacrifice their grandchildren’s economic future” crowd over there, for example…

I am looking forward to some time in the future when a more complete picture is available. What did different countries/regions do right, what did they do wrong, what lessons can be learned, how can we be more prepared next time?

Something that really pisses me off is everyone just looking at a snapshot and then praise themselves because their numbers are better and assume that the reason the numbers are better is 100% their actions being better. Like early in the pandemic when some Norwegian dude explained why they were doing so much better than Sweden, listing a bunch of reasons that all sure sounded like good measures to take. One of those things was lots and lots of testing in the elderly care. Great idea for sure. Except that the dude also bragged about the tests not having found any positive cases there so far… Duuuuuude. If your tests didn’t catch anything they did not save anyone either, so they can’t be a reason for your numbers being better right now. Same with all the other measures, likely good things but no data to support them actually having made a difference so far.
 
Pumbaa said:
Well, you see, 2019 was a bad year, not nearly enough old farts biting the dust, so we had to do something radical to make the numbers more manageable. :poop:
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It's a boomer thing, this aversion to leaving the planet at all, never mind over something like a virus. They figure that they invented rock'n'roll and so their prize for that should of course be immortality.

I'm more than half serious about this. Most of the boomers are going to be like the rest of us humans (older or younger) and die from a fall or from studied neglect of some chronic and preventable health issue. But a lot of them for some reason seem to figure they are special and exempt from almost all the rules, so why not also spared from dying of something at some point? The boomers will be trying to sue hospitals from beyond the grave, claiming they were mistreated during covid-19. If there is a just God, he or she will smooth their path to hell for being unforgivably ungrateful to front line health care workers.

What really ticks me off though is boomers' expectation that someone else will step in and fix climate change at the list minute "if it starts looking serious". In the meantime please don't mess with their god-given right to make a buck in the market because they've had to shell out so much to help their offspring weather the storms of capitalism and covid and it can only be a matter of time until someone stupider than they manages to pop the ongoing mania for these frothy markets. Jesus Christ!

Yeah I'm back to feeling cynical today. I make the mistake of deciding to catch up with some newspaper subscriptions and read too far in past the feel-good page ones about an upcoming better New Year and vicarious back-pats over JWST launch.

EDIT: I have been properly enough reprimanded for such extensive generalizations. I'm gonna excerpt this post though and mail it to a few people who do know some of the same, and many, boomers I had in mind while rather carelessly crafting the post. My apology is genuine: I don't like being stereotyped either.
 
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I really hate boomer talk and blame. Although I land in boomer land (barely), I am nothing like you described. I wish people wouldn't assume my thoughts or approach to things. Especially when they don't even know me.
 
shadow puppet said:
I really hate boomer talk and blame. Although I land in boomer land (barely), I am nothing like you described. I wish people wouldn't assume my thoughts or approach to things. Especially when they don't even know me.
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You're entirely right. I know too many of the wrong sort of boomers, but I should not generalize in quite such an unqualified manner. I apologize and I bothered to edit my post (but I'm not taking it down).
 
lizkat said:
You're entirely right. I know too many of the wrong sort of boomers, but I should not generalize in quite such an unqualified manner. I apologize and I bothered to edit my post (but I'm not taking it down).
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I appreciate you hearing me out. It's just frustrating on so many levels to hear all the derogatory Boomer talk when I am nothing like how they are described. I barely make it in that group as it is, only by a couple years. It's probably similar for Millennials who are often grouped together.
 
shadow puppet said:
I appreciate you hearing me out. It's just frustrating on so many levels to hear all the derogatory Boomer talk when I am nothing like how they are described. I barely make it in that group as it is, only by a couple years. It's probably similar for Millennials who are often grouped together.
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It’s better than being Gen-X, who are called millennials by the boomers, and boomers by the millennials.

…not that any of us really give a damn either way.
 
Pumbaa said:
I am looking forward to some time in the future when a more complete picture is available. What did different countries/regions do right, what did they do wrong, what lessons can be learned, how can we be more prepared next time?

Something that really pisses me off is everyone just looking at a snapshot and then praise themselves because their numbers are better and assume that the reason the numbers are better is 100% their actions being better. Like early in the pandemic when some Norwegian dude explained why they were doing so much better than Sweden, listing a bunch of reasons that all sure sounded like good measures to take. One of those things was lots and lots of testing in the elderly care. Great idea for sure. Except that the dude also bragged about the tests not having found any positive cases there so far… Duuuuuude. If your tests didn’t catch anything they did not save anyone either, so they can’t be a reason for your numbers being better right now. Same with all the other measures, likely good things but no data to support them actually having made a difference so far.
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Agree fully. We can significantly mitigate and slightly delay waves, but we don't have full control over the periodicity of the pandemic and performance should be evaluated wave-by-wave. But that said the no lockdown sort-of approach is limited to the first (European) COVID wave, and all I can say, that according to a value system that equally values life regardless of the age of the person, the Swedish approach was awful. It's also pretty devastating considering that Swedes are one of the healthiest in the world, yet did worse on most outcome measures I've seen compared to neighboring Norway or Denmark. They used early mortality data, assumed permanent herd immunity (again, by late April we had data showing plummeting antibody levels postinfection), while the literature had very very little data on long-term sequelae of the disease in young people. That's just not how you manage a new pathogen.
 
P_X said:
Agree fully. We can significantly mitigate and slightly delay waves, but we don't have full control over the periodicity of the pandemic and performance should be evaluated wave-by-wave. But that said the no lockdown sort-of approach is limited to the first (European) COVID wave, and all I can say, that according to a value system that equally values life regardless of the age of the person, the Swedish approach was awful. It's also pretty devastating considering that Swedes are one of the healthiest in the world, yet did worse on most outcome measures I've seen compared to neighboring Norway or Denmark. They used early mortality data, assumed permanent herd immunity (again, by late April we had data showing plummeting antibody levels postinfection), while the literature had very very little data on long-term sequelae of the disease in young people. That's just not how you manage a new pathogen.
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Not to mention the hesitancy to recommend masks… :brickwall:

Lockdowns were not an option due the laws at the time, one of many flaws in the pandemic response arsenal. I’m looking forward to the final report from the “Corona Commission“, the latest interim report is scathing.

The Commission’s most important overall conclusions based on the review carried out to date and presented in this report are:
• Sweden’s handling of the pandemic has been marked by a slowness of response. The initial disease prevention and control measures were insufficient to stop or even substantially limit the spread of the virus in the country.
• The path chosen by Sweden has placed the emphasis on disease prevention and control measures based on a voluntary approach and personal responsibility, rather than more intrusive interventions.
• Sweden’s pandemic preparedness was inadequate.
• Existing communicable diseases legislation was and is inadequate to respond to a serious epidemic or pandemic outbreak.
• Sweden’s system of communicable disease prevention and control was and is decentralised and fragmented in a way that makes it unclear who has overall responsibility when the country is hit by a serious infectious disease.
• The health care system has been able, at short notice, to adapt and to scale up care for people with COVID-19. This is largely thanks to its employees. Adaptation has been achieved at the price of extreme pressure on staff and of cancelled and postponed care. We will therefore live with the consequences of the pandemic for a long time to come.
• In several areas there is a problematic lack of data, making it harder to monitor the pandemic while it is in progress and to satisfactorily evaluate its management when it is over.
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Is over-vaccinating really an issue?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Experts warn dishing out fourth jabs in spring may be pointless

EXCLUSIVE: Experts have warned against offer a second Covid booster arguing it is not practical to do so every three months. Claims of Omicron as a 'natural vaccine' are debatable experts say.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Also, I see it mainly in non-US press about Omicron being the thing that ends the pandemic because 1) everyone is going to get it, vaccinated or not and 2) it confers better immunity then previous strains.

Thoughts?
 
Herdfan said:
Is over-vaccinating really an issue?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Experts warn dishing out fourth jabs in spring may be pointless

EXCLUSIVE: Experts have warned against offer a second Covid booster arguing it is not practical to do so every three months. Claims of Omicron as a 'natural vaccine' are debatable experts say.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Also, I see it mainly in non-US press about Omicron being the thing that ends the pandemic because 1) everyone is going to get it, vaccinated or not and 2) it confers better immunity then previous strains.

Thoughts?
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I have not seen any stories about catching Omicron giving people better immunity than catching another variant of the virus. The article you linked doesn’t state that, so perhaps can you link to where you saw that?

Although saying “everybody” will catch it is a bit of an exaggeration, it is much more contagious.

I do hope Omicron does truly turn out to be far less lethal than the other variants. I think it will be good news, especially for the unvaccinated. The stories of people dying because they were too stubborn to get a vaccine are sad to me.

I read a story yesterday about testing in mice and hamsters. They found Omicron did not have the same negative effect on their lungs that the other variants did.

news.yahoo.com

Studies Suggest Why Omicron Is Less Severe: It Spares the Lungs

A spate of new studies on lab animals and human tissues are providing the first indication of why the omicron variant causes milder disease than previous versions of the coronavirus. In studies on mice and hamsters, omicron produced less-damaging infections, often limited largely to the upper...
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com
 
Yep, we don't have enough data on Omicron yet to indicate that it could bring all of this to an end, but there's a lot of hoping that it is. (obviously, as we're all fucking tired of living this way!)


Our Provincial Health Officer is also an infectious disease expert. BC's been very lucky to have her!

Here's hoping we get through the 5th wave without having to do any lockdowns as we've seen in some geographies!
 
SuperMatt said:
I have not seen any stories about catching Omicron giving people better immunity than catching another variant of the virus. The article you linked doesn’t state that, so perhaps can you link to where you saw that?
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Here is one. It's a small study out of South Africa pointing to better protection against Delta:

www.cnbc.com

Omicron infection appears to protect against Covid delta variant and could displace it, South Africa study finds

If omicron also proves less severe than delta, Covid infections could prove less disruptive to society, according to South African scientists.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
 
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