Invasion of Venezuela

[Eric]

Congress has never had it easier, they have absolutely nothing to do as a single man is running the world however he wants without checks and balances.

 

[Roller]

While it’s impossible to know right now for sure what is happening, one interpretation is that this was almost inside coup conducted by members of the Maduro regime using the US military as the means and the Trump administration as chumps - ie that in helping get rid of Maduro they made promises to the Trump administration that they have no intention of keeping. It is also possible that their rhetoric is for the home audience “rubes”. I don’t think this is true mind you. But there’s a lot of strange shit.

The simpler and more likely answer is simply incompetence on the Trump administration. There were reportedly talks with the VP taking over earlier this year that supposedly fell through but those talks were made with Maduro’s approval and Maduro stepping down into a life of leisure. But that may have been why they thought they’d have a willing accomplice in the government now. So who knows?

Have there been any policies or actions on which the administration has been competent? They've done nothing that wasn't in the service of personal financial gain or cronyism, regardless of the cost to the country or the world.

 

[cbum]

Have there been any policies or actions on which the administration has been competent?

Given the havoc these idiots have wreaked nationally, does anyone have any expectations that these clowns are going to do anything positive to international relations and worldwide political stability/wars?

 

[Roller]

Given the havoc these idiots have wreaked nationally, does anyone have any expectations that these clowns are going to do anything positive to international relations and worldwide political stability/wars?

Not at all. They've already ruined international relationships and alliances, especially NATO. IDK if the rest of the world will trust the United States again, at least not for the next decade or two. And the country's leadership and respect in so many areas of human endeavor is largely gone.

 

[Herdfan]

I guess my take is what is going to be best for the Venezuelan people?

Last night local Phoenix news show multiple celebrations from Venezuelans in the streets. They seemed to be very happy this happened.

 

[Citysnaps]

Senator Bernie Sanders weighs in on the Venezuelan invasion:

 

[Cmaier]

I guess my take is what is going to be best for the Venezuelan people?

Last night local Phoenix news show multiple celebrations from Venezuelans in the streets. They seemed to be very happy this happened.

If venezuela abducted trump in the middle of the night, there would be multiple celebrations in the streets here. The point being, that any action will make some people happy, and that’s not an accurate gauge of what is permissible or desirable.

 

[Roller]

I guess my take is what is going to be best for the Venezuelan people?

Last night local Phoenix news show multiple celebrations from Venezuelans in the streets. They seemed to be very happy this happened.

Perhaps so, and I agree that Maduro was a bad guy. But does the end justify the means? IMO, it raises the question of what countries should do in situations where they genuinely believe that getting rid of another nation's leader is in that nation's best interests. (TBH, I don't believe for a second that this was the administration's motivation in this case.) It's also troubling to hear the administration's saber rattling about Mexico and Greenland. One could argue that Putin made the same determination about Ukraine and Zelenskyy when he invaded. And what signal does it send to China about Taiwan or to nations that covet their neighbor's resources?

It's also worth asking whether actions like this should be undertaken without consultation with our allies and, at a minimum, with Congress.

 

[Eric]

If venezuela abducted trump in the middle of the night, there would be multiple celebrations in the streets here. The point being, that any action will make some people happy, and that’s not an accurate gauge of what is permissible or desirable.

We would be partying like there's no tomorrow here.

One could also argue that the oppressed people of Ukraine, Gaza, North Korea, insert your favorite third world country, would also be celebrating a dictator free country. Yet those are all countries led or invaded by dictators this current president respects. This whole thing seems really random short of it being an oil rich country.

 

[Eric]

It's also worth asking whether actions like this should be undertaken without consultation with our allies and, at a minimum, with Congress.

All completely out the window with this president, it's a one man show and our system has pretty much given him full reign. He'll die a free man but all of those who enabled him along the way will likely pay a legal price for it when all is said and done.

 

[tomO2013]

I am personally campaigning for annexation of Quebec, simply because it’s really hard to get poutine here. I’m opposed to annexation of all of Canada, however, because while we’d get Rush, we’d also have to receive the Tragically Hip, and America is too great a country for that.

Controversial opinion. The best poutine that I have had in Canada has been found in Alberta, not Quebec. Surprising I know.

 

[Cmaier]

Controversial opinion. The best poutine that I have had in Canada has been found in Alberta, not Quebec. Surprising I know.

I do find that surprising. Though I’ve never been to Alberta, so what the hell do I know.

 

[Herdfan]

Controversial opinion. The best poutine that I have had in Canada has been found in Alberta, not Quebec. Surprising I know.

We have a local food truck here called Routine Poutine.

So good. But now I have to check their SM to see where they are going to be so I can go get some.

 

[Yoused]

One could also argue that the oppressed people of Ukraine, Gaza, North Korea, insert your favorite third world country, would also be celebrating

Always puts me in mind of the last lines of Won't Get Fooled Again.

 

[Citysnaps]

trump's making similar noise about Mexico, Cuba, and Columbia now.

 

[Roller]

Controversial opinion. The best poutine that I have had in Canada has been found in Alberta, not Quebec. Surprising I know.

I probably shouldn't admit it, but I'm from Québec and have never had poutine. The gravy and fries part appealed to me, but the cheese didn't. (I don't like cheeseburgers, either. I know.) But one thing I did appreciate was vinegar on French fries. When I was a kid, we used to get them in a brown paper bag for 10 cents. The bag was always translucent from the vinegar.

I now return you to our regularly-scheduled programming.

 

[dada_dave]

We would be partying like there's no tomorrow here.

One could also argue that the oppressed people of Ukraine, Gaza, North Korea, insert your favorite third world country, would also be celebrating a dictator free country. Yet those are all countries led or invaded by dictators this current president respects. This whole thing seems really random short of it being an oil rich country.

… Ukraine? Zelenskyy was elected in a fair election and is responsible to the elected Rada (parliament) - which as far as I can tell is far better at holding him to account than our Congress is to Trump. Unlike ours he has also followed his country’s constitution. He’s flawed like all politicians but he is in no way shape or form a dictator.

 

[Eric]

… Ukraine? Zelenskyy was elected in a fair election and is responsible to the elected Rada (parliament) - which as far as I can tell is far better at holding him to account than our Congress. Unlike ours he has also followed his country’s constitution. He’s flawed like all politicians but he is in no way shape or form a dictator.

This portion of what I said is key:
“Yet those are all countries led or invaded by dictators” Ukraine falls in the latter.

 

[dada_dave]

This portion of what I said is key:
“Yet those are all countries led or invaded by dictators” Ukraine falls in the latter.

Okay. Apologies if I misunderstood but that was pretty awkwardly worded and under the context it seemed like you were referring to the hypothetical if Zelenskyy had been taken out by Putin that one bad/worse dictator would have taken out another and Ukraine would’ve celebrated the removal of theirs. But I guess I see what you were trying to say - ie if Putin died/was removed by US actions then Ukraine would’ve celebrated? But of course as you you state Trump by and large supports Putin. Then again Maduro is likely one Trump coin purchase from a pardon.

 

[Nycturne]

If venezuela abducted trump in the middle of the night, there would be multiple celebrations in the streets here. The point being, that any action will make some people happy, and that’s not an accurate gauge of what is permissible or desirable.

Exactly.

It can be true that Maduro is corrupt and should be brought to justice, but that violating a nation's sovereignty to do so is problematic at best, and that's before we get into the whole mess about the executive taking unilateral action here. Something that previous presidents have rightly been criticized on, even when they have worked more closely with congress on such actions, unlike here.

That said, we've had a long and unfortunate history here with the American Imperial project. So I'm not that surprised with this turn of events, but deeply disappointed we as a nation seem committed to going fully down this rabbit hole.