Kamala Harris

Alli

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I'm kinda with yax on this one. If the First Lady is someone who has aspirations and wishes to run a civic program, like Laura Bush and her reading initiative, that's great. But they should not be or feel forced to do so. Dr. Biden will manage to build a project into the work she already does. Melania is a stay at home mom with no other aspirations. She should not have felt bullied into coming up with a program about which she knows nothing.
 

thekev

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not much. Spouses should either sacrifice their career (as many others in many professions do), or just be quiet. No need for an office or any media attention (while the spouse is in office of course. After the term they can do whatever they want).

I don't think they should have to be quiet. I view the idea of an office of the first lady as a way to pander to female voters in an earlier era.

They should have the same options as other people do. Media may pay attention to them on the basis of who they are married to, but that doesn't require an office to be funded for the role.

As an example, George Conway remains married to Kellyanne Conway, in spite of very different public views. That isn't to say that I have gained any respect for Kellyanne Conway, but I don't see an issue with them holding separate public views. People should be able to accept the fact that spouses are different people with their own opinions. If you want someone to clarify the opinions of an administration, you have the White House press secretary.
 

yaxomoxay

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I don't think they should have to be quiet. I view the idea of an office of the first lady as a way to pander to female voters in an earlier era.

They should have the same options as other people do. Media may pay attention to them on the basis of who they are married to, but that doesn't require an office to be funded for the role.

As an example, George Conway remains married to Kellyanne Conway, in spite of very different public views. That isn't to say that I have gained any respect for Kellyanne Conway, but I don't see an issue with them holding separate public views. People should be able to accept the fact that spouses are different people with their own opinions. If you want someone to clarify the opinions of an administration, you have the White House press secretary.

fair point. Let’s put it this way: whatever they want to do, politically or otherwise, should be on their dime and with their resources. Again, bodyguards are of course necessary.
 

Huntn

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kinda insulting. No, I don’t hold a grudge against Hillary for that. She used the system, as others did, Melania included. And if you don’t see what’s wrong with a spouse obtaining an Office and resources, I can’t do anything about it.



what a bullshit answer, going for the insult while I am making an argument about Offices to relatives. Meh.
You really should not be insulted so easily. This is politics and not for the faint of heart. :)
Bull shit? Really now. President’s wives as an auxiliary of the Presidency is a long standing tradition. Installing your relatives in the White House is not. Are you actually arguing that the President’s wife should stay in the kitchen? :)
 

Edd

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And that is equally unfair. I remember having a disagreement on Twitter after making disparaging remarks about Sarah Huckabee Sanders. I did not go so far as to call her an ugly bloated mouthpiece. All I did was refer to her constant lies and condescending attitude. I got a response about “supporting our sisters.” Ummm...no. That’s why we’re in the mess we’re in now. We cannot support someone because they are [fill in the blank] any more than we can hate them because they are [fill in the blank].

Ivanka is a lying snob who wouldn’t recognize hard work if she watched it all day - but even watching it is too much work for her.
She also seems every bit as stupid as her dad, which is quite something. Certainly, the environment Don provided was toxic but, given the abilities/personality of the 3 adult children, it would be best if the bloodline stopped reproducing.
 

yaxomoxay

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You really should not be insulted so easily. This is politics and not for the faint of heart. :)

it ain’t nice to tell someone (=me) that his/her ideas are so attached to the hate of an individual. I’ll make you pay for it! 😂

Bull shit? Really now. President’s wives as an auxiliary of the Presidency is a long standing tradition. Installing your relatives in the White House is not. Are you actually arguing that the President’s wife should stay in the kitchen? :)

I am not suggesting that they should stay in the kitchen. I am saying that whatever they do should not a) be an office of the US b) on their dime, except security.
Simple.
 

yaxomoxay

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She also seems every bit as stupid as her dad, which is quite something. Certainly, the environment Don provided was toxic but, given the abilities/personality of the 3 adult children, it would be best if the bloodline stopped reproducing.

well, even More so if we bring IQ on the table. The FLOTUS can be dumb as a rock and have a somewhat powerful office thru marriage (and no elections). I am not going to change my mind on this, ever!

Donate $10 to the Yaxo’s Against The Office of FLOTUS cause!
 

BigMcGuire

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As a Repub... I can't be the only one cringing at stuff like this? We're all HUMANS. We're all the same species. And is that Dinesh d'Souza? I've watched one of his videos and tried to make it through one of his books but ... yeah, couldn't. He's got some interesting ideas about Left vs Right --- and interviews he has are really forced to try to show a point.

What's that saying? When you have to attack someone vs what they say.... I get that people are horrible and history shows that people can do horrible things. We should all be trying to do better now. Yes, be aware of the past, learn from it... But jeez, this is too far.

People like to point out these videos - the videos of white BLM protesters telling a Black conservative woman what she should be thinking, etc. I think these types of "outrage" moments really sell and make $. Divisive. I hate it.
 

JayMysteri0

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As a Repub... I can't be the only one cringing at stuff like this? We're all HUMANS. We're all the same species. And is that Dinesh d'Souza? I've watched one of his videos and tried to make it through one of his books but ... yeah, couldn't. He's got some interesting ideas about Left vs Right --- and interviews he has are really forced to try to show a point.

What's that saying? When you have to attack someone vs what they say.... I get that people are horrible and history shows that people can do horrible things. We should all be trying to do better now. Yes, be aware of the past, learn from it... But jeez, this is too far.

People like to point out these videos - the videos of white BLM protesters telling a Black conservative woman what she should be thinking, etc. I think these types of "outrage" moments really sell and make $. Divisive. I hate it.
The issue raised, is why even go there at all? It's lazy & blatantly offensive. Then those same people when called out, want to recoil in horror if you say it's racism.

If people want to call someone's credibility card that's another thing entirely, and can & should be defended if you are genuine in your beliefs.

Raising the specter of someone's ethnicity or citizenship as far as being fit for service, is just plain lowbrow uncreative dog whistling with one single intent.
 
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lizkat

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@yaxomoxay - do you think Michelle Obama went too far with her health initiatives for schools?

Not to pre-empt but just to note what came into my mind while reading some of the remarks about questions on taxpayer funding of assorted First Ladies' projects: Obama's school lunch initiatives was one of the spinoffs of her interest in establishing a White House Kitchen garden, which btw was funded not by taxpayers but by private (well, corporate) monies provided by the seed manufacturer Burpee.

Assorted other FLOTUS projects including some of the change-ups in White House formal dinnerware and decor were also paid for by solicitation of private financing. Nancy Reagan's china for state dinners was paid for by a private foundation. Other administrations have switched up decor and tableware using funds from the White House Historical Association, established during the Kennedy era and maintained with private donations.

The public is usually advised of how funding of FLOTUS projects is handled, but lots of times later on it's assumed, incorrectly, that taxpayers are footing the bill.

Of course that's different to when policy is implemented and may have a link to FLOTUS interests. On the other hand, all federal revenue appropriations are made by the House of Representatives, not by the executive branch of government (or at least not until Trump came along with his penchant for making end runs around Congress).

The problems that some had with USDA school lunch changes during the Obama administration (policies linked to interests of Michelle Obama's interest in reducing child obesity) were and are a lack of clarity for the public on how much of any additional expense, in a given school district, accrued to the local taxpayers and how much may have been or was intended to be covered by block grants from the federal government to states and states to municipalities. That turned out to be a topic ripe for politicization that bled from finances back to clashes of liberal v libertarian views on how far to go with federal mandates on what can be sold or subsidized by the state in a school cafeteria.
 

BigMcGuire

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Not to pre-empt but just to note what came into my mind while reading some of the remarks about questions on taxpayer funding of assorted First Ladies' projects: Obama's school lunch initiatives was one of the spinoffs of her interest in establishing a White House Kitchen garden, which btw was funded not by taxpayers but by private (well, corporate) monies provided by the seed manufacturer Burpee.

Assorted other FLOTUS projects including some of the change-ups in White House formal dinnerware and decor were also paid for by solicitation of private financing. Nancy Reagan's china for state dinners was paid for by a private foundation. Other administrations have switched up decor and tableware using funds from the White House Historical Association, established during the Kennedy era and maintained with private donations.

The public is usually advised of how funding of FLOTUS projects is handled, but lots of times later on it's assumed, incorrectly, that taxpayers are footing the bill.

Of course that's different to when policy is implemented and may have a link to FLOTUS interests. On the other hand, all federal revenue appropriations are made by the House of Representatives, not by the executive branch of government (or at least not until Trump came along with his penchant for making end runs around Congress).

The problems that some had with USDA school lunch changes during the Obama administration (policies linked to interests of Michelle Obama's interest in reducing child obesity) were and are a lack of clarity for the public on how much of any additional expense, in a given school district, accrued to the local taxpayers and how much may have been or was intended to be covered by block grants from the federal government to states and states to municipalities. That turned out to be a topic ripe for politicization that bled from finances back to clashes of liberal v libertarian views on how far to go with federal mandates on what can be sold or subsidized by the state in a school cafeteria.

Absolutely amazing what one can learn reading lizkat's posts. Thank you. I never knew this!

For my own experience, I've found food at colleges and schools to be horrific nutrition wise - in high school, lunches were absolutely awful - no options for water or anything healthy (late 90s, early 2000s). College was not much better. Seemed like the soda / fast food companies had a monopoly on some of that stuff ( especially at colleges ). Definitely all for getting our kids to eat healthier from an earlier age.

That follow the $ stuff can get scary quick.
 

yaxomoxay

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@yaxomoxay - do you think Michelle Obama went too far with her health initiatives for schools?

Thanks to LizKat for bringing me back to this question.

To answer your question, yes.
Obviously I don't disagree with her message, I think that obesity is probably the #1 issue in the US, and the latest stats from the CDC are terrifying at most, but she used her office (which shouldn't exist IMO, but I think we all know my position now) for pushing a policy that consisted in basically attaching federal grants to a very local issue (school food). The program was also somewhat of a failure (which is sad, but the bottom line is that Americans have almost zero culinary knowledge and love living with greasy food).
 

Renzatic

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The Office should not exist; it’s a flaw in the system, not of Mrs Obama or Mrs Bush or Mrs Reagan.

Thing is, it's neither a flaw in the system, nor an office that actually exist. There are no special powers granted through the First Ladyship specifically, nor any real expectations attached to it beyond "you're married to the president, don't fuck up." It's a ceremonial title occasionally leveraged by ambitious presidential spouses to further their own personal causes. Nothing less, nothing more.
 

Renzatic

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Republicans have the curious habit of questioning black candidates' blackness...

You know, I hate playing the race card, and generally go out of my way to avoid bringing race into a political conversation unless directly bidden to do so.

But I've noticed the recent trend of hardline Republicans doing exactly what that meme states above. Whenever you have a bunch of white guys from the deep south saying "Obama isn't a real black", or "Kamala isn't black", well...

...it looks pretty shitty.

I can't take their opinions over someone's race being in question because they're half X or half Y when their grandparents probably took pot shots at octroroons from the back of their trucks for being "n-bomb enough".
 

yaxomoxay

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Thing is, it's neither a flaw in the system, nor an office that actually exist. There are no special powers granted through the First Ladyship specifically, nor any real expectations attached to it beyond "you're married to the president, don't fuck up." It's a ceremonial title occasionally leveraged by ambitious presidential spouses to further their own personal causes. Nothing less, nothing more.

The Office of the First Lady is a real thing, with a budget, offices, staff (including a Policy Director), and is part of the Executive branch.
 
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