Local restaurant posts sign forbidding masks & social distancing

Gutwrench said:
I’ve twisted nothing. I’ve been completely consistent from my first post to this one.

This saga has been going on for months. As I understand it the business claims they are not in compliance because their rights are being violated.

The state and local governments have legal options to pursue but apparently have not done so.

This all boils down to missing information to fully appreciate the entire situation or to draw conclusions.
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Bullshit, it comes down to LE refusing to do their job.
 
Gutwrench said:
I’ve twisted nothing. I’ve been completely consistent from my first post to this one.

This saga has been going on for months. As I understand it the business claims they are not in compliance because their rights are being violated.

The state and local governments have legal options to pursue but apparently have not done so.

This all boils down to missing information to fully appreciate the entire situation or to draw conclusions.
Click to expand...

I think it's fairly straightforward. The restaurant doesn't want to enforce masks or social distancing, the state mandated they do so, the local sheriff took the side of the restaurant, and refused to enforce said state mandate, and now those with the power to push this farther don't want to make a bigger deal out of it than it already is.

...and here we are.
 
Renzatic said:
I think it's fairly straightforward. The restaurant doesn't want to enforce masks or social distancing, the state mandated they do so, the local sheriff took the side of the restaurant, and refused to enforce said state mandate, and now those with the power to push this farther don't want to make a bigger deal out of it than it already is.

...and here we are.
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This is a good summary, you clearly read through it all.
 
ericgtr12 said:
Bullshit, it comes down to LE refusing to do their job.
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Renzatic said:
I think it's fairly straightforward. The restaurant doesn't want to enforce masks or social distancing, the state mandated they do so, the local sheriff took the side of the restaurant, and refused to enforce said state mandate, and now those with the power to push this farther don't want to make a bigger deal out of it than it already is.

...and here we are.
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Yes. That's also what @Gutwrench is eluding to. The Sheriff deserves a lot more pressure from higher up. I definitely disagree with the Sheriff, but I'm also curious why this conflict didn't take place in the chain of command. @ericgtr12 keep us posted, I think we'll learn some weird stuff about this case...
 
PearsonX said:
Yes. That's also what @Gutwrench is eluding to. The Sheriff deserves a lot more pressure from higher up. I definitely disagree with the Sheriff, but I'm also curious why this conflict didn't take place in the chain of command. @ericgtr12 keep us posted, I think we'll learn some weird stuff about this case...
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If I hear anymore about it locally I'll let you know. As of today Yelp is no longer accepting reviews because everyone online is hammering them, if nothing else they'll have to pay a price in the public eye. No matter what one's view of this is, putting a sign like that on their front door was a dumb thing to do if they didn't want to be a lightning rod.

bistro-blocked.png
 
ericgtr12 said:
If I hear anymore about it locally I'll let you know. As of today Yelp is no longer accepting reviews because everyone online is hammering them, if nothing else they'll have to pay a price in the public eye. No matter what one's view of this is, putting a sign like that on their front door was a dumb thing to do if they didn't want to be a lightning rod.

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Agree. I'm losing my empathy for people like this. I consider them children who cannot deal with reality which is:
A) You either do nothing and deal with the collapse of the healthcare system and pay for the damage caused. The net is a transient perception that COVID isn't real.
B) You do your best to prevent the infection to spread and then deal with the remaining damage as something inevitable.

What these people do is do their best to make the situation worst in exchange for the perception of being "free", yet concurrently expect others to take the human and financial sacrifice to deal with the fall out. This sort of lack of understanding of societal costs are only acceptable from pre-school children.
 
PearsonX said:
Agree. I'm losing my empathy for people like this. I consider them children who cannot deal with reality which is:
A) You either do nothing and deal with the collapse of the healthcare system and pay for the damage caused. The net is a transient perception that COVID isn't real.
B) You do your best to prevent the infection to spread and then deal with the remaining damage as something inevitable.

What these people do is do their best to make the situation worst in exchange for the perception of being "free", yet concurrently expect others to take the human and financial sacrifice to deal with the fall out. This sort of lack of understanding of societal costs are only acceptable from pre-school children.
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I suppose it's one thing if they're hunkered down and don't want their guns taken away or something for example, because the only one's they're impacting are themselves. With this virus it's nearly everyone you come into contact with and not just deaths but they're overwhelming local hospitals that are already over capacity, especially in these rural areas where they're now seeing huge spikes.
 
PearsonX said:
Yes. That's also what @Gutwrench is eluding to. The Sheriff deserves a lot more pressure from higher up. I definitely disagree with the Sheriff, but I'm also curious why this conflict didn't take place in the chain of command. @ericgtr12 keep us posted, I think we'll learn some weird stuff about this case...
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We can argue the ethics, morality, and appropriateness of it until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that just about everything surrounding our response to the pandemic is ultimately a political issue. Our elected officials are reticent to do anything that could be used against them in a future election.

The point has been pushed enough so that the higher ups can say they did their due diligence, and the local sheriff butted heads with them over it. If anything happens from that point on then, hey, it's not their fault. They tried. Blame the other guys for not following through.
 
ericgtr12 said:
I suppose it's one thing if they're hunkered down and don't want their guns taken away or something for example, because the only one's they're impacting is themselves. With this virus it's nearly everyone you come into contact with and not just deaths but they're overwhelming local hospitals that are already over capacity, especially in these rural areas where they're now seeing huge spikes.
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A good example is Mayo clinic. THey had 900 employees testing positive in 2 weeks spanning within 3 weeks of Trump's visit. Most of these employees got COVID from the community and not from patients, so...
 
Renzatic said:
We can argue the ethics, morality, and appropriateness of it until we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that just about everything surrounding our response to the pandemic is ultimately a political issue. Our elected officials are reticent to do anything that could be used against them in a future election.

The point has been pushed enough so that the higher ups can say they did their due diligence, and the local sheriff butted heads with them over it. If anything happens from that point on then, hey, it's not their fault. They tried. Blame the other guys for not following through.
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This couldn't be an issue of voters would hold politicians accountable for COVID fuckups, which we learned this election that isn't the case. Infuriating.
 
PearsonX said:
A good example is Mayo clinic. THey had 900 employees testing positive in 2 weeks spanning within 3 weeks of Trump's visit. Most of these employees got COVID from the community and not from patients, so...
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Wow. Then there's this church who traced 90 cases back to this one man. Imagine what is possible with a bunch of people not wearing masks inside a packed restaurant. It's really too bad that the mask has become so political, it's such a simple and basic step to prevent the spread.
 
ericgtr12 said:
Wow. Then there's this church who traced 90 cases back to this one man. Imagine what is possible with a bunch of people not wearing masks inside a packed restaurant. It's really too bad that the mask has become so political, it's such a simple and basic step to prevent the spread.
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Anti-masking is literally the stupidest thing I've ever dealt with in my life. This is where I lost ALL respect for Trump..and of course Scott fucking Atlas.
 
ericgtr12 said:
Wow. Then there's this church who traced 90 cases back to this one man. Imagine what is possible with a bunch of people not wearing masks inside a packed restaurant. It's really too bad that the mask has become so political, it's such a simple and basic step to prevent the spread.
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You know my opinion. I'm kind of an actual Libertarian here: those who defy public health mandates should be financially liable for the damage done.
 
Renzatic said:
I think it's fairly straightforward. The restaurant doesn't want to enforce masks or social distancing, the state mandated they do so, the local sheriff took the side of the restaurant, and refused to enforce said state mandate, and now those with the power to push this farther don't want to make a bigger deal out of it than it already is.

...and here we are.
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The District Attorney and Attorney General‘s office are the entities who take action. They file the criminal complaint not the local sheriff.
 
The warrants were NOT LEGAL. Do not speculate about that which you do not know. The media is doing you a disservice. A law enforcement officer cannot allow even a government official access without a proper warrant. Chew on that before you judge the owner who is staying in business. The judge will not sign an unlawful warrant. So there is no legally enforceable offense. Mask and social distance "mandates" are NOT LAWS. NO ONE CAN ENFORCE A NON-LAW.
 
hi @heidiw

welcome to TalkedAbout. hope you feel at home here.

im not so familiar with how or if mere mandates (not laws) are enforceable.

i gather from yr post that there are no penalties to not complying with this california mandate. correct?

and that if a business that does not comply to enforce anti-covid measures, that California business is not breaking any health guidelines currently in effect and can remain open, in spite of a California state mandate to meet its emergency guidelines of the mandate, correct?

thanks
 
heidiw said:
The warrants were NOT LEGAL. Do not speculate about that which you do not know. The media is doing you a disservice. A law enforcement officer cannot allow even a government official access without a proper warrant. Chew on that before you judge the owner who is staying in business. The judge will not sign an unlawful warrant. So there is no legally enforceable offense. Mask and social distance "mandates" are NOT LAWS. NO ONE CAN ENFORCE A NON-LAW.
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I can’t speak to the legality of the warrants. However, the owner is doing a bit more than “staying in business”. He/she is fostering the spread of the virus and endangering god knows how many people.
 
heidiw said:
Mask and social distance "mandates" are NOT LAWS. NO ONE CAN ENFORCE A NON-LAW.
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It depends upon the state's constitution. Most have a clause or two in them granting their respective governments extra temporary powers during times of crisis that can be enforced by law.
 
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