Loki (2021 Disney +)

[Eric]

Fishing for likes, eh?

Done at my request and appreciated. If we're breaking up a thread like this by request we should make sure everyone else is good with it. Thanks @Huntn done.

 

[Eric]

For the most part I've been enjoying this, even though it's really getting feel good and Loki is not a feel good God, you almost get the sense that they're going to breakout into a dance number. Still, good fun.

 

[Huntn]

For the most part I've been enjoying this, even though it's really getting feel good and Loki is not a feel good God, you almost get the sense that they're going to breakout into a dance number. Still, good fun.

You want him to be likable and on occasion he is before slipping again. I watched him observe the record of his death in the hands of Thanos (I assume the future) and I’m very curious how this is addressed. Remember he has died or appeared to die multiple times through the MCU, but always returns. Yet his neck being crushed by Thanos seemed terminal, although that could be just another illusion.

The funny thing about this story is that I am sensitive to (what I deem as) hap hazard illustrations of time travel and associated paradoxes and this show at first really annoyed me with the idea of “what’s meant to be“ is ok, and “what’s not meant to be“ makes you a criminal, as if anyone knows what is meant to be. It was almost enough to make me turn it off in the early episodes, but glad I did not and know better now.

I had faith in WandaVision from the start and remember some people agitated they were watching a 50s sitcom.

 

[DT]

I watched him observe the record of his death in the hands of Thanos (I assume the future) and I’m very curious how this is addressed.

Different Loki.

 

[Huntn]

Different Loki.

Maybe… he’s the Loki from 2012 that we are familiar with and unless they go out of their way to address it, this Loki is the one we watched Thanos kill, even though (I think) he was looking at the future, his future. Yes there are a bunch of Lokis but very few look like our Loki.

 

[Alli]

All I know is it’s going to be one hell of a final episode. I wish they could start season 2 in 6 months rather than waiting a year.

Oh, and down with the TVA!

 

[Pumbaa]

All I know is it’s going to be one hell of a final episode. I wish they could start season 2 in 6 months rather than waiting a year.

You and me both!

Oh, and down with the TVA!

I’m sure that’ll work out as well as for example removing Saddam from Iraq or Gaddafi from Libya worked out for those regions.

 

[Edd]

Maybe… he’s the Loki from 2012 that we are familiar with and unless they go out of their way to address it, this Loki is the one we watched Thanos kill, even though (I think) he was looking at the future, his future. Yes there are a bunch of Lokis but very few look like our Loki.

He is a different Loki the same as we now have a different Gamora. They were both killed during the Infinity saga and their past selves were plucked out of time from several years earlier.

When we talk about “all the Lokis” including Sylvie, those are Lokis from parallel universes, not different timelines.

Simple, right?

 

[Huntn]

For @Edd, I realize that a split timeline is a parallel universe/existence that runs side by side.

Ok I got it.

• In the original Avengers at the end of movie, Loki is taken to Asguard by Thor and imprisoned and the Tesseract is stored away there.
• In Endgame, in an attempt to grab the Tesseract, Loki ends up escaping with it and ends up in the desert. This is Loki in a branching timeline, where the Loki series takes place.
• The solution for the Avengers in Endgame (the original timeline) is to go farther back in time to 1970 and grab the Tesseract there.
• Since the last Loki episode has yet to drop, we don’t know if he stays in a seperate timeline or is somehow put back in our timeline because here, he is dead,

Disney is going with the split timeline idea. What might have been an accept it or tear your hair out situation I think is resolved. Keep reading,.

I can watch and enjoy Endgame, but never did accept it, because what Marvel/Disney does is cause so many branching timelines, they are all somewhere other than the timeline the audience exists in. Why? Because we watched Loki die, that is where we exist. By virtue of splitting off a time line by going back in time and changing anything, a new timeline/parallel universe is created. The person who does this has no way of returning to the original timeline unless…keep reading.

And the thing is that parallel time lines that split from one another would at that point forward, diverge significantly from each other, some events, the existence of people would be drastically changed, and you might not even recognize the split timeline.

So in End Game multiple teams go back to fetch infinity stones, each team created and now each exist in a split timelines from one another, and from the original timeline.In all of those timelines, Infinity War could not of happened because each team removed an Infinity Stone and created a new separate timeline where they hold a couple of stones and each team would be located in a separate timelines. As I said sometime before, don’t question just accept, kind of like hanging out at MacRumors.

For reference, a single timeline is a problem. When you go back in time, just your presence and everything you interact with, changes the furture you hope to return to. We saw this phenomena in Back To The Future. I’ll stop there and not bore you with loop, chicken or the egg paradoxes.

This is why Disney the Master trickster had to go with multiple timelines. And for story telling purposes you need either magic or technology that can not only send you through time, but to maintain a link to our timeline, technology that can jump from timeline to timeline. Disney presents the TVA.

This will be the way to bring the Loki who escaped with the Tesseract in End Game back into our timeline resurrecting him by the creation of “Time Keepers“ who manage multiple, parallel time lines, and can jump to any time line they desire with one of their time gadgets. That is the answer and my guess is this is how we will see Loki we know will rise once again in our Universe.

'Avengers: Endgame' - What Happened With Loki and the Tesseract?

The Avengers' time shenanigans had one very important consequence that was not addressed at all

www.thewrap.com

When Does Loki Take Place in the MCU Timeline? It's Complicated

It hasn't been officially confirmed when Loki takes place in the overall MCU timeline, but a major clue has been discovered.

movieweb.com

The Avengers (2012) Movie Summary and Film Synopsis

The MHM Podcast Network movie synopsis and film summary of The Avengers (2012) starring Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, and Scarlett Johansson.

www.moviehousememories.com

 

[Edd]

For @Edd, I realize that a split timeline is a parallel universe/existence that runs side by side.

Ok I got it.

• In the original Avengers at the end of movie, Loki is taken to Asguard by Thor and imprisoned and the Tesseract is stored away there.
• In Endgame, in an attempt to grab the Tesseract, Loki ends up escaping with it and ends up in the desert. This is Loki in a branching timeline, where the Loki series takes place.
• The solution for the Avengers in Endgame (the original timeline) is to go farther back in time to 1970 and grab the Tesseract there.
• Since the last Loki episode has yet to drop, we don’t know if he stays in a seperate timeline or is somehow put back in our timeline because here, he is dead,

Disney is going with the split timeline idea. What might have been an accept it or tear your hair out situation I think is resolved. Keep reading,.

I can watch and enjoy Endgame, but never did accept it, because what Marvel/Disney does is cause so many branching timelines, they are all somewhere other than the timeline the audience exists in. Why? Because we watched Loki die, that is where we exist. By virtue of splitting off a time line by going back in time and changing anything, a new timeline/parallel universe is created. The person who does this has no way of returning to the original timeline unless…keep reading.

And the thing is that parallel time lines that split from one another would at that point forward, diverge significantly from each other, some events, the existence of people would be drastically changed, and you might not even recognize the split timeline.

So in End Game multiple teams go back to fetch infinity stones, each team created and now each exist in a split timelines from one another, and from the original timeline.In all of those timelines, Infinity War could not of happened because each team removed an Infinity Stone and created a new separate timeline where they hold a couple of stones and each team would be located in a separate timelines. As I said sometime before, don’t question just accept, kind of like hanging out at MacRumors.

For reference, a single timeline is a problem. When you go back in time, just your presence and everything you interact with, changes the furture you hope to return to. We saw this phenomena in Back To The Future. I’ll stop there and not bore you with loop, chicken or the egg paradoxes.

This is why Disney the Master trickster had to go with multiple timelines. And for story telling purposes you need either magic or technology that can not only send you through time, but to maintain a link to our timeline, technology that can jump from timeline to timeline. Disney presents the TVA.

This will be the way to bring the Loki who escaped with the Tesseract in End Game back into our timeline resurrecting him by the creation of “Time Keepers“ who manage multiple, parallel time lines, and can jump to any time line they desire with one of their time gadgets. That is the answer and my guess is this is how we will see Loki we know will rise once again in our Universe.

'Avengers: Endgame' - What Happened With Loki and the Tesseract?

The Avengers' time shenanigans had one very important consequence that was not addressed at all

www.thewrap.com

When Does Loki Take Place in the MCU Timeline? It's Complicated

It hasn't been officially confirmed when Loki takes place in the overall MCU timeline, but a major clue has been discovered.

movieweb.com

The Avengers (2012) Movie Summary and Film Synopsis

The MHM Podcast Network movie synopsis and film summary of The Avengers (2012) starring Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, and Scarlett Johansson.

www.moviehousememories.com

Your comment at the top, about parallel universes and different timelines being equivalent. I don’t think that’s quite right.

Are you caught up on episodes? Because the next thing I have to say contains spoilers.

 

[DT]

T1
Avengers capture Loki
Thanos plotline continues
Loki killed by Thanos

Alternate timeline split / variance:

T1
Avengers capture Loki
Avengers travel back creating:

T2
Where Loki escapes

Different Loki, as in, another Loki, and while very close to the one we know from T1, every instance is technically a different Loki ...

Spoiler: Wut.

even if they're not an alligator ...

 

[Edd]

T1
Avengers capture Loki
Thanos plotline continues
Loki killed by Thanos

Alternate timeline split / variance:

T1
Avengers capture Loki
Avengers travel back creating:

T2
Where Loki escapes

Different Loki, as in, another Loki, and while very close to the one we know from T1, every instance is technically a different Loki, even if they're not an alligator ...

When you mention an alligator you’re getting into spoilers, but short version is different timelines does not equal parallel universe.

I think.

 

[DT]

When you mention an alligator you’re getting into spoilers, but short version is different timelines does not equal parallel universe.

I think.

Doh! Updated.

 

[Huntn]

Your comment at the top, about parallel universes and different timelines being equivalent. I don’t think that’s quite right.

Are you caught up on episodes? Because the next thing I have to say contains spoilers.

That’s an assumption, I’d have to research, but in my mind when you break off a timeline into a seperate temporal space and the original time line continues to exist, it would serve an alternate reality/parallel universe. Thoughts?

 

[DT]

OK, peeps, it dropped at midnight, reviews in, quick glance is it sounds great, I've avoided spoiler sources, so I'll check back into this thread after I've seen it.

 

[Huntn]

T1
Avengers capture Loki
Thanos plotline continues
Loki killed by Thanos

Alternate timeline split / variance:

T1
Avengers capture Loki
Avengers travel back creating:

T2
Where Loki escapes

Different Loki, as in, another Loki, and while very close to the one we know from T1, every instance is technically a different Loki ...

Spoiler: Wut.

even if they're not an alligator ...

It’s complicated and kind of how you view it. This was our Loki in our timeline who in the past is branched off into another timeline. So arguably it’s a second Loki, but his origin and characteristics are identical to the Loki we know.

This argument follows the idea that going back in time creates a separate reality/timeline, leaving the original timeline unchanged, and that really means that Avengers who went back in time branched themselves off, they would have never been able to all rendezvous back the original timeline , they’d all be in seperste new timelines, unable to undo the snap. Of course, who knows.

Yes, the TVA makes it easy for Disney to move characters around onto different timelines as needed to create new movies.

Option 2- Just accept what your eyes are seeing, lol.

 

[Huntn]

Loki Episode 6 Spoiler-
Whatarewetalk’nabout? (Said real fast)
As far as I know, this is one of the rare situations were a tv series must be viewed first to make heads or tails of the movie to follow.

• He Who Remains- the discussion with him, Loki, and Sylvie was riveting, and I was looking forward to being wowed, but the end was unresolved and unsatisfying.
• HWR talks about options, his history, his contact with other parallel realities, his making peace with them, controlling branching timelines, and choosing to reside at the void at the end of time, pulling all the strings, and he always knows what’s going to happen, because a magic printer tells him… to a point. If the writers say so.
• I guess that if parallel realities can war with each other, keeping a peace between them is a good thing, so at the end chaos?
• Timeline Management- I completely object to the TVA stated idea that that screwing with the time line if it is meant to be (Avengers) is ok, but if it’s not meant to be Loki grabbing the Tesseract and disappearing, that’s not ok. Really? Instead what I witnessed was the TVA managing/pruning branching timelines, then apprehending the person they said is responsible, but who has no clue, accusing them of a crime, that the accused had no knowledge of what is criminal in this regards and punishing them by sending them to the void.
• What I’m not clear about is how many time lines are in the Sacred Timeline. The timeline icon looks like a small group of time lines traveling in parallel. HWR references the multiverse, so that exists, and my impression is that only a small number of timelines are allowed, not just one, because if it was just one, then where was Loki when he landed in the desert?
• Time travel is complicated. My take is if a story requires too much thought it’s not a a good story at least for comic book heroes. Better just to accept what is being portrayed and stop thinking and objecting. Self noted.

 

[DT]

So arguably it’s a second Loki, but his origin and characteristics are identical to the Loki we know.

Not when he branches, then he's a totally self-contained new entity, that could grow emotionally, become a hermit, even die. I mean, we're actually seeing new character development that's a 180° change from the “other” Loki.

 

[DT]

Amazing ending, hahaha, yes, Kang! Many of us knew about Jonathan Majors being cast but I had no expectation of him showing up at the end of this show.

 

[Eric]

It wasn't bad but the whole thing was a bit too cheesy for me. It's hard to make a god of chaos redeemable and I think they tried too hard. IMO the worst one yet.

With that I'm dumping my Disney Plus subscription, their lack of movies and the fact that they make you pay a premium for their movies on top of a monthly fee makes this service not worth it any more.

I do think Winter Soldier and The Mandalorian were both really well done though, if/when we get new seasons I'll probably pick it back up. I'll say that I love the fact that these services are ala carte though, it gives us the freedom to pick and choose so I'm not upset with Disney at all here, just glad I can opt in and out as I please.