Meta has threatened to pull all news from Facebook in the US if an 'ill-considered' bill that would compel it to pay publishers passes

lizkat

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The problem with paying for news is, at least as of now, is you have to have too many subs. I would much rather have to stare at an ad for 10 seconds or take a survey before seeing the article vs having multiple subscriptions.

Yes, multiple subs can get chaotic just remembering to read what you sub to, if you don't create some order on the usage side as well as reminders of when to bail on the sub or try to negotiate for a new promo rate.

What I did until Musk bought Twitter was keep a Twitter list in my account of the main accounts of media outlets to which I subscribe, then just bail into that list instead of reading my timeline. I wouldn't even be scrolling through Twitter for more than a few seconds at a time, just to click into a newspaper article link and then I'd be in a tab for that paper for awhile.

Sure the papers retweet what they want you to read for whatever reason (like they think the clickbait potential is high or they are trying to boost a Pulitzer-worthy series) but then once I'm in the paper I'd usually prowl around to read whatever I want in that paper on that day. Tired of that paper, flip back to the Twitter tab and hit up the next media outlet on my sub list.

However, since Twitter fell into Musk's clutches, I usually revert to a folder of browser bookmarks, or sometimes just launch a news app from a notification on my phone. I only let a few news outlets ship me notifications and I don't even keep very many news apps. A lot of them seem unpolished compared to ones like the WSJ or WaPo so I head to a laptop browser for most of my news reading.
 

Macky-Mac

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Yes, multiple subs can get chaotic just remembering to read what you sub to, if you don't create some order on the usage side as well as reminders of when to bail on the sub or try to negotiate for a new promo rate.

What I did until Musk bought Twitter was keep a Twitter list in my account of the main accounts of media outlets to which I subscribe, then just bail into that list instead of reading my timeline. I wouldn't even be scrolling through Twitter for more than a few seconds at a time, just to click into a newspaper article link and then I'd be in a tab for that paper for awhile.

Sure the papers retweet what they want you to read for whatever reason (like they think the clickbait potential is high or they are trying to boost a Pulitzer-worthy series) but then once I'm in the paper I'd usually prowl around to read whatever I want in that paper on that day. Tired of that paper, flip back to the Twitter tab and hit up the next media outlet on my sub list.

However, since Twitter fell into Musk's clutches, I usually revert to a folder of browser bookmarks, or sometimes just launch a news app from a notification on my phone. I only let a few news outlets ship me notifications and I don't even keep very many news apps. A lot of them seem unpolished compared to ones like the WSJ or WaPo so I head to a laptop browser for most of my news reading.
it's really not necessary to pay for news.....there are always free sites covering the same stories, and they all do cover the same stories for the most part.

Yes, different sites will have different slants, and it's necessary to understand and compensate for those differing viewpoints......having a "folder of bookmarks" is a good way to see what's being said about the same topic

Local news is a bit different....I pay a promo rate for my local paper so that I have some info about where I live
 

Eric

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it's really not necessary to pay for news.....there are always free sites covering the same stories, and they all do cover the same stories for the most part.

Yes, different sites will have different slants, and it's necessary to understand and compensate for those differing viewpoints......having a "folder of bookmarks" is a good way to see what's being said about the same topic

Local news is a bit different....I pay a promo rate for my local paper so that I have some info about where I live
Exactly. When I see a story linked to a paywall I just find a different source and link it up that way. Outside of a headline you're not getting any of the story otherwise, in fact it's really misleading and feels underhanded when any site promotes a story that leads you that way.
 

lizkat

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Exactly. When I see a story linked to a paywall I just find a different source and link it up that way. Outside of a headline you're not getting any of the story otherwise, in fact it's really misleading and feels underhanded when any site promotes a story that leads you that way.

I agree one can feel ripped off bothering to pay for a paper that fills gaps with stuff from other papers in the same chain or all wire service pieces, syndicated columns... Or as is all the vogue now with some papers owned by private equity vultures, stuff from "contributing writers"... reporters trying to get some bylines so they can maybe get a job on staff somewhere that pays a third or a half of a living wage?

But in my experience good metro newspapers still have a lot of not-page-one articles that are not likely to make it to extra circulation via "as first reported by ThisMetroPaper.' That relayed stuff happens for headline news stories, breaking news, topics du jour. But I really like more than just news and politics in papers, so to me it's worth paying for access to substantive articles in other sections.. as long as I don't have to pay full freight for those things, because do I look like I have 'mark' printed on my face?

I'm willing to be counted as part of their circulation because that works for the ad guys so it works for the paper. But the only paper I'm willing to pay too much for is my local four-county one, and if their one amazing reporter who was born and educated in the area ever quits, or if the guy quits who reports state news for the chain's papers, I'm outta there and subscribing instead to a weekly run by some locals for donations..
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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It's all in the promos and having a calendar and a reminders system you pay attention to. The promos are totally mad these days.. 99c for six months.. what?!

But yeah sometimes I wish there was an app for that... not FB but an app where you check off what you want to read and they show you the promos for everything, what you're subbed to , when it expires, what's the "and then..." rate and if there's an annual alternate. But there's no app like that so for me it was about making a homebrew spreadsheet equivalent and some reminders...

The newspapers and magazines are getting smarter though. They do realize word of mouth counts, and word of mouth on the internet is retweets and links that viewers paste from their reading to elsewhere around the net. To get more of those, they have to attract more link pasters, right? More eyeballs looking into the place just once and maybe tweeting a link?

So the savvier papers are experimenting more with a mix of stuff like giving everybody some free reads, giving people free reads for awhile if they just register, offering absurdly cheap promos for fairly long periods during which their circulation stays bumped by that one reader, letting subscribers share "gift links" or unpaywalled links, letting a subscriber share the whole sub with another person, etc.

For time bomb promo rates you can also use the Reminders app like make a "NYT promo rate ends Jun 30th" reminder set to remind you on Jun 15th so you have a couple weeks to decide if you want to pay full price after that. You can also include a note that has the promo rate and full price rate.

I use the hell out of the Reminders app for monthly bills and recently holiday sales. Have to say it has helped to really cut back on the impulse buying. Making a reminder with the deal expiration date allows for a cooldown period that somewhat satisfies the impulse along with the list of other contenders to contemplate and weigh the comparative value.
 

Huntn

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  • Meta threatened to pull news from its US platform over a media bill, in a statement on Monday.
  • The media bill will require Facebook and other platforms to pay publishers to distribute news.
  • Meta previously cut all access to news in Australia after a similar bill was passed in the country.
I have to think about this.
  • Who is Meta? (Facebook?)
  • The news organization propagates and sells it’s product to consumers.
  • Social media distributes the news, that news organizations allow to be distributed. It could be argued that this arrangement helps social media, more than it does the news organization.
  • The news organization could withhold this product if they wanted to.
  • Facebook could refuse to pay to distribute news.
  • So why force this (said neutrally)?
 

Herdfan

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I have to think about this.

  • Social media distributes the news, that news organizations allow to be distributed. It could be argued that this arrangement helps social media, more than it does the news organization.

I would think the opposite. More clicks on the news site, the better engagement they can tell their advertisers.
 

dada_dave

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I would think the opposite. More clicks on the news site, the better engagement they can tell their advertisers.
It depends, the problem with Facebook (and Google!) is often they control so much of the ads, especially on links shared through their portals, that the websites not only get very little of the revenue but very little of the usage information (as compared to Google/Facebook) making it less informative for them for advertising. So increased engagement through Facebook is not great as it might seem. And Facebook relies on content to keep eyeballs trapped in their ecosystem, so it could be argued that in aggregate that Facebook is more reliant on the news orgs than the other way around, but individual sites have little power, hence legislation like this.
 

Herdfan

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It depends, the problem with Facebook (and Google!) is often they control so much of the ads, especially on links shared through their portals, that the websites not only get very little of the revenue but very little of the usage information (as compared to Google/Facebook) making it less informative for them for advertising. So increased engagement through Facebook is not great as it might seem. And Facebook relies on content to keep eyeballs trapped in their ecosystem, so it could be argued that in aggregate that Facebook is more reliant on the news orgs than the other way around, but individual sites have little power, hence legislation like this.

I guess I don't understand exactly how news works on FB.

I think in terms of someone posts a link to a news story, I click the link and it takes me to XYZNews.com. At that point I am on the news website and count as traffic to them.

Am I missing something?
 

lizkat

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it could be argued that in aggregate that Facebook is more reliant on the news orgs than the other way around

hence Meta throwing shades on legislation but not putting it quite the way you just did.

I guess I don't understand exactly how news works on FB.

I think in terms of someone posts a link to a news story, I click the link and it takes me to XYZNews.com. At that point I am on the news website and count as traffic to them.

Am I missing something?

Yeah... whatever info Meta decides to include with the link when shipping that click over to the news site.
 

dada_dave

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I guess I don't understand exactly how news works on FB.

I think in terms of someone posts a link to a news story, I click the link and it takes me to XYZNews.com. At that point I am on the news website and count as traffic to them.

Am I missing something?

If you go to the actual website, then yes. But most don’t - in fact almost no one. They have the headline + blurb and never move beyond that and Facebook has its own, even worse version of Google’s AMP where basically you read the whole story completely stripped of its original source. I think it’s called Facebook instant or something like that. My understanding is that between Facebook instant/feed, Google search/AMP most of the actual news sites themselves get very little traffic and consequently very as revenue or even information about how often their content was seen. Again, Google AMP is better for news sites but still not great.
 

lizkat

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This is new to me and a bit concerning, I had always assumed as long as a source is cited and the content quoted all is above board. Would like to know if there's more we need to know here, I want to be compliant, especially when it comes to IP.

Posting links to cited online newspaper articles is generally fine: when the reader gets there via a click from your site, the site's owner is then in charge of interpreting any info that comes with the link, including whether it's a gift link or one the paper has officially provided as "free" for subscribers to share elsewhere. If a cited link is just a basic URL then it's still up to that site owner to decide how to treat the visitor who came in through a link from your site: is it openly accessible, if not then is he a subscriber, would he like to log in, would he like to read three free pieces and then be asked if he wants to subscribe, etc.

As far as quotes go, if a cited link is from a site's "free link" option for a subscriber to pass along an article, or if a member had used a gift link for legit "paywall removal," then seeing some extensive quotes also included by a member posting to your site may not be problematic --- the publisher has meant to make this article freely available with subscribers being the relay mechanism-- but otherwise the principles of fair use apply more strictly, and quotes should be a small percentage of the content.

The mitigating factor against initiation of copyright-level litigation for most news outlets is that a citation in a "social media" venue, e.g. a post with a link and some quoted content, may well drive new traffic to the site.

That's altogether different however to just plagiarizing content or closely paraphrasing it without attribution. But.. attribution itself does not override "fair use" considerations. Again though, with modern news outlets, something like putting a screenshot of a photo complete with credits into a social media post along with a link to the piece probably gets a shrug from the outlet, as it's like a free ad: "wow Joe Smith is a hell of a photographer and here's where he writes from..."

That doesn't mean some blogger or fan can post screenshots of every Joe Smith photo on the net though. For that, permission of the copyright owner is required.

One thing you definitely don't want members to do is to advocate anything illegal including linking to methods of stripping DRM protection of copyrighted works. So there can be times that just citing "a link" in a post to your site should be considered a violation. Member guidelines need to make that clear.

Speaking of over the top "quotation percentage," and issues of links to works with violated copyright: A couple of Russians just got busted in Argentina at the request of the USA for having run Z-Library, a collection of over 200 domains that since 2009 had purported to be a source of "free" ebooks, but which actually had people uploading and downloading copyrighted ebooks from which the DRM had been stripped, sometimes within hours of a book's release for sale to the public. All that just got shut down. Authors of over 11 million books had been deprived of potential royalties for their efforts.


How's all that for a digression?

And now back to what Meta is up to in its threat to remove news outlets feeds from its site.... for my money, Facebook has been struggling to stay relevant for awhile now; the option to grab up some news while checking up on the grandkids' photos or a family reunion has been a boon to Meta for sure.

So I believe that Meta has more to lose than do the newspapers, whose points of traffic enhancement are all over the place now: via citations in other social media platforms, citations in other newspapers via "...as originally reported in..." and even in a combo of those, e.g. some tweet embedded in an online blog's commentary that happens to cite a newspaper article with a link to it. Does that sound like someone besides Meta might be scarfing up ad revenue here and there for "news"? Hell yeah.
 
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