Multiple people shot in New York City subway

[lizkat]

Georgia just passed a so called "constitutional carry" law, which allows any "eligible citizen" to openly carry a handgun in public without a license or a license-related background check. A person still needs a background check to buy a handgun from a store or dealer, but this type of cary law obviously winks at the fact that not all gun purchases are made in that manner.

So if you live in Georgia and have somehow come by a handgun, you may carry it openly as you wish, until and unless you bump into the fine print about "eligibllity", which is likely to be only after the fact of some unlawful use of the weapon.

Apparently law enforcement officers are not all in agreement on this legislation. That may translate to city police not liking it, but county sheriffs being fine with it.

I cannot envision New York City with an open carry law. My mind just won't go there.

 

[Alli]

It was a long 10 minutes for me from the time I opened Twitter and saw what was happening, and finally heard back from my son that he was working from home.

 

[JayMysteri0]

One of my biggest concerns that I saw starting to form was using this as case for even MORE police. A former police officer was on the Chris Hayes show discussing the incident. At the end of his time he felt the need to say this was call for even MORE police, and it's only with a seeming overwhelming presence like this could things like this be prevented. Chris Hayes did point out that a few thousand police are already involved with policing the subway, having gotten an increased presence from the current mayor. Chris Hayes also pointed out that for some, even MORE police may not be as comforting to everyone else.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it always ignores some obvious points. Like how a bunch of money has already been spent on surveillance that somehow didn't work. The angering irony isn't lost here.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1514065383602331649/

Also, we are possibly talking a nut job here. Nut jobs & terrorists don't give a 'f about how much police presence there is. Terrorists just scope a little more or decide to go suicidal. Nuts. Well are f'n nuts! That's what makes them so dangerous. Remember all that concern for mental health?

But you can see where the snowball begins to roll downhill...

Mayor Eric Adams Unhelpfully Pledges to 'Double' Number of Cops in NYC Subway Stations

The "lack of policemen" in subway stations is not the problem, sir.

jezebel.com

A snowball that inevitably rolls over the wrong people in the name of the law.

 

[ronntaylor]

The jackass was caught

Brooklyn Subway Shooting: Who Reported the Suspect? Claims Abound (Published 2022)

A Syrian immigrant, a shop owner and an artist are among those who say they played a role in leading the police to Frank R. James, and he may have called a tip line on himself.

www.nytimes.com

 

[DT]

Another source:

Suspect in Brooklyn subway train shooting called in the tip that led to his arrest, sources say | CNN

The man suspected of shooting 10 people on a subway train in Brooklyn on Tuesday called in a tip to Crime Stoppers that led to his capture Wednesday, two law enforcement sources told CNN.

www.cnn.com

This is especially disconcerting (from the link above):

James, the suspect in the shooting, has been linked to multiple rambling videos posted on a YouTube channel. A screenshot from one of the videos was used on an NYPD Crimestoppers flyer seeking information about the shooting.

James talked about violence and mass shootings in the videos, including one uploaded Monday in which he said he's thought about killing people who have presumably hurt him.

 

[JayMysteri0]

I think what's distressing is that with NY's exorbitant price tag police, this is what was involved in getting the guy

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1514370561144766467/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1514415580773769216/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1514247509987713030/

This is not counting another Twitter user mocking that with all of it's resources, the NYPD was counting on people to text them about this nut.

 

[AG_PhamD]

It never gets old that people declare to know the race of the perpetrator based on the crime or the motive based on their skin color, etc. Maybe it’s best for the facts to come out before stereotyping?

Another source:

Suspect in Brooklyn subway train shooting called in the tip that led to his arrest, sources say | CNN

The man suspected of shooting 10 people on a subway train in Brooklyn on Tuesday called in a tip to Crime Stoppers that led to his capture Wednesday, two law enforcement sources told CNN.

www.cnn.com

This is especially disconcerting (from the link above):

Sounds like another case of a likely mentally ill individual likely not getting the treatment he required and deserved. It’s not clear based on a lack of context, but it sounds like he may have alluded to this same complaint online according to the article:

In a video posted in February, he also criticized a plan by the Adams administration to address safety and homelessness in the subway in part through an expanded presence of mental health professionals. In a racist and rambling recording, James called the new effort “doomed to fail” and described his own negative experience with city health workers during a “crisis of mental health back in the ’90s, ‘80s and ‘70s.”

Other articles say his videos mentioned his videos discussing his struggles with mental illness.


As is often the case in these situations, he evidently had a trail of red flags that were never followed up… or at least properly given what happened.

It’s amazing that no one was killed in this attack, either by the gun or the likely stampede this event created

 

[AG_PhamD]

I think what's distressing is that with NY's exorbitant price tag police, this is what was involved in getting the guy

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1514370561144766467/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1514415580773769216/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1514247509987713030/

This is not counting another Twitter user mocking that with all of it's resources, the NYPD was counting on people to text them about this nut.

These seem like very oversimplified and somewhat misleading interpretations of what reportedly happened.

As I recall this shooting happened around 8:30-8:40am. By the end of the afternoon James was identified as a person of interest. Obviously the police had to secure the area (probably takes some time when explosives are used), investigate the crime scene, locate the gun, keys, and ID, look into the background of the ID owner, investigate who the rental car belonged to, search that for any evidence for further warrants, etc. Just because someone’s belongings are found at a crime scene, especially in a crowded, public, chaotic location, doesn’t mean they belong to the perpetrator. Many personal belongings were probably dropped and left behind as people fled. I think we can agree falsely announcing people of interest/suspect in cases like this is extremely dangerous. By the next morning James was labeled a suspect.

29 hours later after the incident, around 1:00 PM he called the tip line on a cell phone from McDonalds to turn himself in. He told the dispatcher his battery was going to die. The police obviously responded to the McDonalds but had left to apparently go to a bar and someone ended up a couple blocks away when they finally found him at 1:40 PM.

I can’t speak to the homeless encampment issue, but I imagine the police checked the homeless encampment because James had no fixed address and had appeared to have been living out of his Uhaul rental. Maybe they figured he figured he’d be less likely to be recognized there. Or maybe there were concerns his rants against homeless people would lead to violence against them.

Finding a suspect usually requires the publics help- especially in a city of 8m people. It took five days to identify and catch the marathon bombers- with probably the largest law enforcement mobilization since 9/11. 30 hours doesn’t seem all that unreasonable.

Whether or not the police have the resources and argument they need is a whole debate in itself- I suspect it depends on the situation and what resources are involved. NYC does have a serious crime problem at the moment but I’m not sure hiring more cops is the answer. The lack of consequences for crime is a problem (not necessarily jail, but diversionary programs, counseling, other creative ideas, etc- not mention jail/prison reform to focus on rehabilitation than containment) but so are things like poverty/cost of living, education, jobs, mental health access, homelessness etc.

 

[JayMysteri0]

These seem like very oversimplified and somewhat misleading interpretations of what reportedly happened.

As I recall this shooting happened around 8:30-8:40am. By the end of the afternoon James was identified as a person of interest. Obviously the police had to secure the area (probably takes some time when explosives are used), investigate the crime scene, locate the gun, keys, and ID, look into the background of the ID owner, investigate who the rental car belonged to, search that for any evidence for further warrants, etc. Just because someone’s belongings are found at a crime scene, especially in a crowded, public, chaotic location, doesn’t mean they belong to the perpetrator. Many personal belongings were probably dropped and left behind as people fled. I think we can agree falsely announcing people of interest/suspect in cases like this is extremely dangerous. By the next morning James was labeled a suspect.

29 hours later after the incident, around 1:00 PM he called the tip line on a cell phone from McDonalds to turn himself in. He told the dispatcher his battery was going to die. The police obviously responded to the McDonalds but had left to apparently go to a bar and someone ended up a couple blocks away when they finally found him at 1:40 PM.

I can’t speak to the homeless encampment issue, but I imagine the police checked the homeless encampment because James had no fixed address and had appeared to have been living out of his Uhaul rental. Maybe they figured he figured he’d be less likely to be recognized there. Or maybe there were concerns his rants against homeless people would lead to violence against them.

Finding a suspect usually requires the publics help- especially in a city of 8m people. It took five days to identify and catch the marathon bombers- with probably the largest law enforcement mobilization since 9/11. 30 hours doesn’t seem all that unreasonable.

Whether or not the police have the resources and argument they need is a whole debate in itself- I suspect it depends on the situation and what resources are involved. NYC does have a serious crime problem at the moment but I’m not sure hiring more cops is the answer. The lack of consequences for crime is a problem (not necessarily jail, but diversionary programs, counseling, other creative ideas, etc- not mention jail/prison reform to focus on rehabilitation than containment) but so are things like poverty/cost of living, education, jobs, mental health access, homelessness etc.

It may seem like an over simplification if you want it to, or it's just the bare bones facts laid out.

No one is dismissing the work the police did in identifying the individual, but it was mostly confirmation work as he did leave everything but his license there to ID himself. It's when they actual did trace his gun ( wha? background checks! ) that he for very obvious legal reasons moved from person of interest to actual suspect. NO ONE has had an issue or question any of that. Actually reading the tweet it was the focus on the budget of the NYPD that includes incredible surveillance throughout the city, that somehow malfunctioned at the time when it was really needed.

Despite this incredible presence throughout the city ( and trust me the NYPD is very present ) it took the suspect calling himself in.

If one did the research one would not have to imagine the homeless encampment sweep had absolutely NOTHING to do with the suspect. Instead it's been part of an ongoing effort by the very pro police mayor to crack down on the homeless & activists for the last two weeks.

Once again no one is denying what it takes to find a suspect. What people have focused in on is that the NYPD in a once in a lifetime event with a budget & force that rivals some small militaries, seemingly did little in this case. It was whether you want to call it an "over simplification" or the basics, them telling the public look for this guy. The suspect then calling in his location while a team of officers were a block away making another homeless encampment sweep, and a bystander actually getting involved.

That didn't engender trust in the police AGAIN. Combined with this mayor & friends using it as ANOTHER call for MORE police.

Because when is there enough police? Is the answer MORE police, or effective use of ( such as having them actually work ) current resources already on hand?

One could argue by how this actually resolved that MORE policing may not be the call, but more community effort along with current policing instead.

 

[Cmaier]

It may seem like an over simplification if you want it to, or it's just the bare bones facts laid out.

No one is dismissing the work the police did in identifying the individual, but it was mostly confirmation work as he did leave everything but his license there to ID himself. It's when they actual did trace his gun ( wha? background checks! ) that he for very obvious legal reasons moved from person of interest to actual suspect. NO ONE has had an issue or question any of that. Actually reading the tweet it was the focus on the budget of the NYPD that includes incredible surveillance throughout the city, that somehow malfunctioned at the time when it was really needed.

Despite this incredible presence throughout the city ( and trust me the NYPD is very present ) it took the suspect calling himself in.

If one did the research one would not have to imagine the homeless encampment sweep had absolutely NOTHING to do with the suspect. Instead it's been part of an ongoing effort by the very pro police mayor to crack down on the homeless & activists for the last two weeks.

Once again no one is denying what it takes to find a suspect. What people have focused in on is that the NYPD in a once in a lifetime event with a budget & force that rivals some small militaries, seemingly did little in this case. It was whether you want to call it an "over simplification" or the basics, them telling the public look for this guy. The suspect then calling in his location while a team of officers were a block away making another homeless encampment sweep, and a bystander actually getting involved.

That didn't engender trust in the police AGAIN. Combined with this mayor & friends using it as ANOTHER call for MORE police.

Because when is there enough police? Is the answer MORE police, or effective use of ( such as having them actually work ) current resources already on hand?

One could argue by how this actually resolved that MORE policing may not be the call, but more community effort along with current policing instead.

9 million people in the five burroughs, several of which would qualify as large cities by themselves. Hundreds of miles of subways lines, lots of bridges and tunnels out of town…. It’s not surprising that it would take a day or two to find the guy if he wanted to stay hidden. When I did my nefarious deeds in Manhattan nobody ever found me.

The alternative would be to go full-London and stick cameras everywhere and hook them up to AI and facial recognition. But I don’t think New Yorkers want that. Other possibilities would be transit police on every train, gunshot detectors on the platforms and in the trains, etc. Frankly, though, I’m not hearing from New Yorkers (at least my friends and family that are still there) that they are looking for a solution guaranteed to prevent this kind of attack; they are more concerned by the day-to-day crimes that have been occurring more frequently in the subway recently. The mayor can take whatever position he’s going to take, but New Yorkers don’t tend to be overly reactionary.

 

[ronntaylor]

The NYPD's budget is larger than some nation's defense budget. Ukraine's, for example.

 

[JayMysteri0]

9 million people in the five burroughs, several of which would qualify as large cities by themselves. Hundreds of miles of subways lines, lots of bridges and tunnels out of town…. It’s not surprising that it would take a day or two to find the guy if he wanted to stay hidden. When I did my nefarious deeds in Manhattan nobody ever found me.

The alternative would be to go full-London and stick cameras everywhere and hook them up to AI and facial recognition. But I don’t think New Yorkers want that. Other possibilities would be transit police on every train, gunshot detectors on the platforms and in the trains, etc. Frankly, though, I’m not hearing from New Yorkers (at least my friends and family that are still there) that they are looking for a solution guaranteed to prevent this kind of attack; they are more concerned by the day-to-day crimes that have been occurring more frequently in the subway recently. The mayor can take whatever position he’s going to take, but New Yorkers don’t tend to be overly reactionary.

The point is, there are endless possibilities, but does it as some L/E cheerleaders are screaming for involvingMORE police? An approach that's been demonstrated that makes a part of the populace feel safer, at the expense of other's lives. Or does it involve approaches that require using the resources on hand differently?

If one is going to go on about how important policing is, it doesn't help when it seems like the community helped to get the job done, while the actual police were off doing something else entirely a block away from the suspect.

One of the things I keep going on about, is what if this was a terrorist & not someone disturbed?

A terrorist isn't bringing his credit card & lawfully purchased handgun to the scene. Yet those were two important factors in identifying the suspect, since the actual surveillance devices that could ID the suspect weren't working. THIS from one of the largest police forces in the world. At some point there has to be a realization that we can't have one police officer for every citizen to insure public safety.

My concern was in using this once in a lifetime instance as a call to ramp up things that haven't worked as advertised so far.

We always have these extreme swings at moments like this where we aren't "law & order" enough or "progressive" enough, and other options are not considered. This is a cycle that will never end, with everyone feeling any safer.

 

[Cmaier]

The point is, there are endless possibilities, but does it as some L/E cheerleaders are screaming for involvingMORE police? An approach that's been demonstrated that makes a part of the populace feel safer, at the expense of other's lives. Or does it involve approaches that require using the resources on hand differently?

If one is going to go on about how important policing is, it doesn't help when it seems like the community helped to get the job done, while the actual police were off doing something else entirely a block away from the suspect.

One of the things I keep going on about, is what if this was a terrorist & not someone disturbed?

A terrorist isn't bringing his credit card & lawfully purchased handgun to the scene. Yet those were two important factors in identifying the suspect, since the actual surveillance devices that could ID the suspect weren't working. THIS from one of the largest police forces in the world. At some point there has to be a realization that we can't have one police officer for every citizen to insure public safety.

My concern was in using this once in a lifetime instance as a call to ramp up things that haven't worked as advertised so far.

We always have these extreme swings at moments like this where we aren't "law & order" enough or "progressive" enough, and other options are not considered. This is a cycle that will never end, with everyone feeling any safer.

It’s always been the case that if you aren’t attacking Times Square, grand central, Penn, or WTC station that there’s probably not to much that can be done to stop it. So I don’t expect there to be much of a response to this other than better and more cameras, and maybe some tech to detect weapons without making people stop, if there is such a thing.

 

[JayMysteri0]

It’s always been the case that if you aren’t attacking Times Square, grand central, Penn, or WTC station that there’s probably not to much that can be done to stop it. So I don’t expect there to be much of a response to this other than better and more cameras, and maybe some tech to detect weapons without making people stop, if there is such a thing.

As I pointed out, the mayor has other ideas.