PPP - biggest fraud magnet in history

The whole thing has been a fraud from PPP to unemployment benefits. I was glad when Abbott ended the extra cash for unemployment. One of the few things I agreed with him on. So many people were abusing that crap.
 
The whole thing has been a fraud from PPP to unemployment benefits. I was glad when Abbott ended the extra cash for unemployment. One of the few things I agreed with him on. So many people were abusing that crap.

I think that’s probably the most Texan thing you’ve said to date. Low wage earners need to be put back in their place.
 
The whole thing has been a fraud from PPP to unemployment benefits. I was glad when Abbott ended the extra cash for unemployment. One of the few things I agreed with him on. So many people were abusing that crap.
PPP was for “small businesses” - and to the surprise of nobody, was fraudulently abused by the wealthy. It undoubtedly helped many businesses that needed it. But the large dollar amounts and rapid deployment of the bill without sufficient safeguards were an invitation to fraudsters.

Unemployment benefits, on the other hand, how can anybody be heartless enough to be angry at people who lost their jobs because their employers had to close for the pandemic? Did you see the unemployment rates during the pandemic?
 
PPP was for “small businesses” - and to the surprise of nobody, was fraudulently abused by the wealthy. It undoubtedly helped many businesses that needed it. But the large dollar amounts and rapid deployment of the bill without sufficient safeguards were an invitation to fraudsters.

Yeah, my BIL's accounting firm was still doing well, he didn't apply for PPP, our friends with a restaurant got it and it really saved their ass. So while there was abuse (due to loose authorization/validation), there were people who didn't abuse, or were seriously helped by it.
 
PPP was for “small businesses” - and to the surprise of nobody, was fraudulently abused by the wealthy. It undoubtedly helped many businesses that needed it. But the large dollar amounts and rapid deployment of the bill without sufficient safeguards were an invitation to fraudsters.

Unemployment benefits, on the other hand, how can anybody be heartless enough to be angry at people who lost their jobs because their employers had to close for the pandemic? Did you see the unemployment rates during the pandemic?

Both sides have shitty people that take advantage of the system, but a lot of folks here only seem to be mad at one side all the time, but not the other. You should be upset at BOTH sides that are abusing the system. The wealthy that abused PPP and the lower waged earners that abused unemployment benefits.

I can't speak for your State, but I know in Texas the unemployment fraud was out of control. I know ONE person that lost their job legitimately and applied for and got unemployment assistance. But I could name half a dozen people or more that were abusing it. And other people I know could name half a dozen people they knew who were abusing it and so on. The Texas Workforce Commission was so swamped and overwhelmed and people knew this and took advantage of it. And reporting the fraud wouldn't have helped much when they're already overwhelmed and swamped. But they are slowly going back and going after those that committed fraud. They won't catch everyone just based on the sheer volume of it. So spare me the whole "heartless" BS. Lower waged earners are just as shitty of people as higher wage earners. People are shitty in general and will take advantage of a situation if you let them. I knew people that weren't even unemployed and were collecting benefits. And now that it is over more people have admitted they were lying and collecting benefits while it was being given. I guess now that its been over they feel comfortable admitting it.

But I guess we should just overlook it because they're just sooooo pooooooorrrrrr.
 
Both sides have shitty people that take advantage of the system, but a lot of folks here only seem to be mad at one side all the time, but not the other. You should be upset at BOTH sides that are abusing the system. The wealthy that abused PPP and the lower waged earners that abused unemployment benefits.

I can't speak for your State, but I know in Texas the unemployment fraud was out of control. I know ONE person that lost their job legitimately and applied for and got unemployment assistance. But I could name half a dozen people or more that were abusing it. And other people I know could name half a dozen people they knew who were abusing it and so on. The Texas Workforce Commission was so swamped and overwhelmed and people knew this and took advantage of it. And reporting the fraud wouldn't have helped much when they're already overwhelmed and swamped. But they are slowly going back and going after those that committed fraud. They won't catch everyone just based on the sheer volume of it. So spare me the whole "heartless" BS. Lower waged earners are just as shitty of people as higher wage earners. People are shitty in general and will take advantage of a situation if you let them. I knew people that weren't even unemployed and were collecting benefits. And now that it is over more people have admitted they were lying and collecting benefits while it was being given. I guess now that its been over they feel comfortable admitting it.

But I guess we should just overlook it because they're just sooooo pooooooorrrrrr.

Most people focus on the abuse or fraud either at the top or at the bottom, but fraud is pretty rampant in the middle. The short of it is basically as long as you have the proper paperwork the government will pay anything and having the proper paperwork in no way means it’s an accurate or a justified charge. There’s also a whole lot of apathy (or corruption) by those in the government who sign off on the charges, the proverbial $1,000 military hammer. “A government employee (who doesn’t give a shit) signed off on this. So I guess we should pay it.” I’ve worked with government paperwork in the past and have received paperwork signed off on that had the most minimal information filled out, basically we could write in any work or charge we wanted to after the fact and its all good.

For every fraud that gets caught there are probably 100 that don’t, and you can pretty much guarantee that the ones that get pursued and prosecuted are going to be the ones at the low end of the economic spectrum.
 
Both sides have shitty people that take advantage of the system, but a lot of folks here only seem to be mad at one side all the time, but not the other. You should be upset at BOTH sides that are abusing the system. The wealthy that abused PPP and the lower waged earners that abused unemployment benefits.

I can't speak for your State, but I know in Texas the unemployment fraud was out of control. I know ONE person that lost their job legitimately and applied for and got unemployment assistance. But I could name half a dozen people or more that were abusing it. And other people I know could name half a dozen people they knew who were abusing it and so on. The Texas Workforce Commission was so swamped and overwhelmed and people knew this and took advantage of it. And reporting the fraud wouldn't have helped much when they're already overwhelmed and swamped. But they are slowly going back and going after those that committed fraud. They won't catch everyone just based on the sheer volume of it. So spare me the whole "heartless" BS. Lower waged earners are just as shitty of people as higher wage earners. People are shitty in general and will take advantage of a situation if you let them. I knew people that weren't even unemployed and were collecting benefits. And now that it is over more people have admitted they were lying and collecting benefits while it was being given. I guess now that its been over they feel comfortable admitting it.

But I guess we should just overlook it because they're just sooooo pooooooorrrrrr.
Who abused the unemployment benefits? Let’s see the evidence.

Funny, there are MANY documented cases of PPP abuse, but the supposed “abuse” of the unemployment benefits is “I know a guy.” More like: your job didn’t get shut down during the pandemic, so you think the people collecting unemployment are lazy or something. This was a bullshit line of reasoning that Republicans tried to push in order to skewer Joe Biden during the campaign too. It failed miserably. People know better. Believe what you want, but most people who needed benefits to pay their bills aren’t abusing anything. The people who bought Lamborghinis? THAT is abuse.


Did you even follow what REALLY happened with unemployment during the pandemic? Many local unemployment offices didn’t have the resources to handle all the claims, so people waited many months to get any benefits.


As for actual unemployment fraud in Texas: searching for cases, I found a Texan who used false identities to get a bunch of unemployment checks sent to her from Massachusetts. There were also people who used fake identities to try and get money. I don’t see any of the supposed cases you are talking about.

I guess the GOP politicians' game of ignoring the real issues and “punching down” on marginalized groups is being adopted by their voters as well. It’s not about whether poor people are better or worse than rich people. It’s about the fact that the SYSTEM treats rich people infinitely better than poor people. And yet some people go ballistic if a poor person gets enough unemployment insurance to buy food for their kids during a pandemic.

I mentioned Rick Scott earlier. He stole billions through medicare fraud. He is a Senator now. If you’re not rich and you steal even $100, enjoy your time in prison. I’m not advocating for small-time criminals to act with impunity. I’m advocating for Rick Scott and his ilk to be in prison for life for stealing billions instead of being made Senators.
 
Did you even follow what REALLY happened with unemployment during the pandemic?
The real tragedy was that wage-earners observed that they seemed to be getting exploited to their detriment and found that pandemic assistance allowed them to say FO to their bosses, thus upending the delicate balance of the labor market and forcing employers to pay people without also screwing them over. It remains to be seen if this effect will be lasting or that the business community can restore proper order upon the peons.
 
[...] restore proper order upon the peons.


Count de Monet: I’ve come on the most urgent of business. It is said that the people are revolting.

King Louis XVI: You said it! They stink on ice!
 
Who abused the unemployment benefits? Let’s see the evidence.

Funny, there are MANY documented cases of PPP abuse, but the supposed “abuse” of the unemployment benefits is “I know a guy.” More like: your job didn’t get shut down during the pandemic, so you think the people collecting unemployment are lazy or something. This was a bullshit line of reasoning that Republicans tried to push in order to skewer Joe Biden during the campaign too. It failed miserably. People know better. Believe what you want, but most people who needed benefits to pay their bills aren’t abusing anything. The people who bought Lamborghinis? THAT is abuse.


Did you even follow what REALLY happened with unemployment during the pandemic? Many local unemployment offices didn’t have the resources to handle all the claims, so people waited many months to get any benefits.


As for actual unemployment fraud in Texas: searching for cases, I found a Texan who used false identities to get a bunch of unemployment checks sent to her from Massachusetts. There were also people who used fake identities to try and get money. I don’t see any of the supposed cases you are talking about.

I guess the GOP politicians' game of ignoring the real issues and “punching down” on marginalized groups is being adopted by their voters as well. It’s not about whether poor people are better or worse than rich people. It’s about the fact that the SYSTEM treats rich people infinitely better than poor people. And yet some people go ballistic if a poor person gets enough unemployment insurance to buy food for their kids during a pandemic.

I mentioned Rick Scott earlier. He stole billions through medicare fraud. He is a Senator now. If you’re not rich and you steal even $100, enjoy your time in prison. I’m not advocating for small-time criminals to act with impunity. I’m advocating for Rick Scott and his ilk to be in prison for life for stealing billions instead of being made Senators.

You seem to keep thinking that I am more upset at people that abused unemployment than those that abused PPP. No, BOTH abused the system, and BOTH should be held accountable. I'm not sure why you put "I know a guy" in quotations when I actually do know these people. I guess first hand knowledge is no longer good enough when it goes against your beliefs? Most of them were my own relatives, so yes, "I know them" You think I'm also not annoyed that people purchased lambos, teslas, and homes with PPP money? Yes, I hope they get prosecuted to the fullest.

My beef isn't with ONLY people that were committing fraud with unemployment. It's with folks that were committing fraud with unemployment and/or PPP loans. They should all be prosecuted.

No one is talking about how the system treats the rich better than the poor. That's common knowledge. That's a different discussion.
As for Rick Scott? That is just white privilege which is also a different discussion.
 
You seem to keep thinking that I am more upset at people that abused unemployment than those that abused PPP. No, BOTH abused the system, and BOTH should be held accountable. I'm not sure why you put "I know a guy" in quotations when I actually do know these people. I guess first hand knowledge is no longer good enough when it goes against your beliefs? Most of them were my own relatives, so yes, "I know them" You think I'm also not annoyed that people purchased lambos, teslas, and homes with PPP money? Yes, I hope they get prosecuted to the fullest.

My beef isn't with ONLY people that were committing fraud with unemployment. It's with folks that were committing fraud with unemployment and/or PPP loans. They should all be prosecuted.

No one is talking about how the system treats the rich better than the poor. That's common knowledge. That's a different discussion.
As for Rick Scott? That is just white privilege which is also a different discussion.

Where is the evidence that so many people committed fraud in the way you said? That’s my question here. You made a generalized statement of “so many people were abusing that crap” that was only backed up by a handful of anecdotes. Then you doubled down with “unemployment fraud was out of control” and indicated that of everybody you knew, only ONE person actually was supposed to get the benefits.

According to Texas’ own numbers: They paid out $49.2 billion in claims, and they believe $893 million was claimed fraudulently. Less than 2%. There were many more fraudulent claims (18% of all claims totaling over $9 billion) but only that $893 million was actually paid out. They also found most fraudulent claims were from identity thieves, often one person or a group scamming many identities. So... much of the fraudulently obtained money went to a fairly small number of cyber criminals. Not “low wage earners” but rather a network of fairly sophisticated criminals.

It is clear that the people actually committing fraud are being tracked down. Just like with PPP, they probably won’t catch them all. But your above statements are unsupported, and when compared to the actual data, are clearly inaccurate. Here’s a good article with some solid data on the numbers in Texas.

 
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Where is the evidence that so many people committed fraud in the way you said? That’s my question here. You made a generalized statement of “so many people were abusing that crap” that was only backed up by a handful of anecdotes. Then you doubled down with “unemployment fraud was out of control” and indicated that of everybody you knew, only ONE person actually was supposed to get the benefits.

According to Texas’ own numbers: They paid out $49.2 billion in claims, and they believe $893 million was claimed fraudulently. Less than 2%. They also found most fraudulent claims were from identity thieves, often one person or a group scamming many identities. So... much of the fraudulently obtained money went to a fairly small number of cyber criminals. Not “low wage earners” but rather a network of fairly sophisticated criminals.

It is clear that the people actually committing fraud are being tracked down. Just like with PPP, they probably won’t catch them all. But your above statements are unsupported, and when compared to the actual data, are clearly inaccurate. Here’s a good article with some solid data on the numbers in Texas.


We have different definitions of fraud and abuse :)

I wonder how much of that $49.2 billion in claims were people who were collecting unemployment while not even attempting to find work? That isn't necessarily "fraud" but its abusing the system. Unemployment is temporary assistance to help while trying to find employment. A lot of people were abusing this and not even looking for a job which to me qualifies as abuse and fraud. But that's not going to be included in your numbers. And before you say "Well, if they would just pay a living wage they would work"...sorry, I will NEVER support people just doing nothing and collecting benefits when they are able bodied. My own aunt turned down 2 jobs because she wanted to just sit home longer with her husband and collect benefits, and they were not minimum wage jobs she was offered. But she became motivated and found a job once that extra money stopped flowing in. THAT is the reason Abbott ended the extra unemployment benefits....because people didn't want to work. I am all for helping people that need it but it became a system where it was doing more harm than good and it needed to end. You can thank all the terrible people that abuse the system for that. There's always those that ruin it for everyone.
 
I wonder how much of that $49.2 billion in claims were people who were collecting unemployment while not even attempting to find work? That isn't necessarily "fraud" but its abusing the system.
Evidence vs anecdotes, assumptions, and/or statements from the constantly lying governor of Texas.

Why am I reading recycled 1980s “welfare queen” attacks in 2022?
 
Evidence vs anecdotes, assumptions, and/or statements from the constantly lying governor of Texas.

Why am I reading recycled 1980s “welfare queen” attacks in 2022?

Why are you more upset at rich people that abused the PPP program but you turn a blind eye to those that abused unemployment benefits? I guess because it was millions vs thousands? The only thing I am saying is that BOTH are wrong. But you seem just focused on rich people who bought lambos with PPP money when I am saying BOTH sides are wrong.

This has nothing to do with welfare queens. It has everything to do with holding everyone accountable for their actions.
 
Why are you more upset at rich people that abused the PPP program but you turn a blind eye to those that abused unemployment benefits? I guess because it was millions vs thousands? The only thing I am saying is that BOTH are wrong. But you seem just focused on rich people who bought lambos with PPP money when I am saying BOTH sides are wrong.
Perhaps because the rich people are the root cause of almost all our social problems and most of the rest of us are fed up with subsidizing and mollycoddling them.
 
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