Rivian doubling down on no carplay

[Cmaier]

Rivian says ‘customers will appreciate’ lack of CarPlay eventually - 9to5Mac

Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe was interviewed on the Decoder podcast and defended the company’s decision not to support Apple CarPlay.

9to5mac.com

I’ve been using Carplay for a month now in the new car, and can’t imagine living without it. Adding spotify and whatever other apps they can leverage as an income stream is no substitute for carplay. Just the little things alone - when I get home and the “garage door” button appears on the screen so I can open it without using the mirror buttons that i have to keep re-programming for some reason. When i get in the car and it suggests a navigation location because it knows my kid is in an unusual location and suggests i might want to go get her. Audio apps that Rivian will never get around to, like MLB for baseball games. And, honestly, one of the best navigation experiences out there - verbal instructions like “drive past this exit, then take the next one” and “after the stop sign, take the second right.” And apps like parking finders, etc. What’s Rivian’s wonderful new AI going to do when I say “give me directions to Rachel’s house?” Rachel isn’t in my contacts, but she sent me her address in an email, and Siri figured that out.

 

[Herdfan]

They are simply eliminating a segment of potential purchasers from the pool.

 

[DT]

Yep, this is a huge part of it:

We'll see.

We're going to most likely be dropping down to a single vehicle, the R1S and R2 are on the list, maybe with a single vehicle not as big of a deal[?] I love the idea of a Jeep-like vehicle that's not afraid of curbs, deep standing water, etc., which the Rivian fulfills nicely.

The Scout would be a nice option in that capacity too, but they're so far out, no idea about final specs, company viability, etc.

 

[Eric]

I've learned to live without it, if it were wired it would be different but the fact that any audio on the phone is hijacked without the ability to simply switch back to the stock radio system without jumping through a bunch of hoops while driving is a dealbreaker for me.

Maybe it would be different if the BMW infotainment system/satellite radio weren't infinitely better than Apple's implementation. I do understand though if you want to live in the Apple ecosystem and bypass the car entirely.

 

[Nycturne]

My issue is that Carplay gives me access to audio apps that aren't already integrated.

I can use Big Finish, switch over to an Audiobook streamed via Audiobookshelf, bring up Plexamp (or my own app) for music, and use my favorite Podcast app. It's the fact that *I* get to curate the experience with Carplay that is the win for me.

Now, as a developer, I have some issues with Carplay, but that's more because of the limitations Apple places on you to ensure your UX fits within a particular box that is already checked for compliance with safety guidelines/etc.

 

[Eric]

Now, as a developer, I have some issues with Carplay, but that's more because of the limitations Apple places on you to ensure your UX fits within a particular box that is already checked for compliance with safety guidelines/etc.

When opening up an app, say TikTok or Reddit, on the iPhone having a prompt that says "keep audio on iPhone?" (instead of forcing you to exit the infotainment system) would do wonders for those of us forced on to wireless CarPlay.

 

[Nycturne]

When opening up an app, say TikTok or Reddit, on the iPhone having a prompt that says "keep audio on iPhone?" (instead of forcing you to exit the infotainment system) would do wonders for those of us forced on to wireless CarPlay.

And that is something Apple would have to do. Where audio is piped is controlled by the system, and all developers can do is trigger the AirPlay UI for audio/video routing. But this smacks me as a general "wireless CarPlay auto-connects and takes over because last-input-wins" issue anyways, which should be on Apple to address one way or another. Especially as AirPlay is being extended to CarPlay such that video from Reddit/TikTok/etc is expected to be able to be routed to the car for playback while parked. It just makes the whole thing even more complex if there isn't an easy way to connect/disconnect CarPlay when using it wirelessly.

But stuff like this is why I still prefer wired CarPlay, despite my car supporting both. Plugging in becomes the UX of me choosing to have the phone use the car as output and display.

 

[Eric]

Especially as AirPlay is being extended to CarPlay such that video from Reddit/TikTok/etc is expected to be able to be routed to the car for playback while parked.

The irony is that when not using CarPlay the audio is routed through BT to the car perfectly and as soon as you stop playing whatever is associated with the audio it jumps right back to the infotainment system as expected, when CarPlay hijacks it you have to jump through hoops to navigate your way back out of it all.

The solution of course is to just use CarPlay for everything, bypassing your infotainment center as Cmaier has mentioned. The infotainment system in the new BMWs is bad ass though, the cleanest I've ever seen and it's a shame not to be able to use it.

 

[DT]

Wireless CarPlay works exactly as I’d expect it to in both our vehicles.

I get in, phone connects, Car Play launches, I get a nice unified experience, Spotify runs solid (daughter or wife can hop into the queue from their phones), Maps are terrific (Apple Maps has two zoom levels on each of the two main displays and TBT on the HUD) and ABPR allows for some charge planning, Waze for some situational awareness Proper group messages, nice HomeKit integration, etc.

I do run R8 companion (radar detector integration) on the phone on occasion but that works great and I do want that audio to be piped into car audio. I pretty much don’t touch / run anything else from my phone in the cars.

Glad it works so good for our use cases, so good, that in the near term at least, I still greatly desire it - i.e., it could take Rivian out of play (but that’s Q2 ‘27 )

I’ve got an iX M70 configured as a Standby

 

[Nycturne]

Wireless CarPlay works exactly as I’d expect it to in both our vehicles.

I get in, phone connects, Car Play launches, I get a nice unified experience, Spotify runs solid (daughter or wife can hop into the queue from their phones), Maps are terrific (Apple Maps has two zoom levels on each of the two main displays and TBT on the HUD) and ABPR allows for some charge planning, Waze for some situational awareness Proper group messages, nice HomeKit integration, etc.

And this is part of the bind car makers and Apple are both in, IMO.

"Last input wins" works fine for many cases, but in cases like Eric's, it does fall down. Because the act of the phone connecting (automatically) is now the "last input" and wins over the person's choice of a radio station.

So if you can keep someone in one or another ecosystem, it stays in the "It Just Works" world for the most part. Car makers would like it if you stayed in their eco system, and Apple would like it if you stayed in theirs. I lean towards Apple's because even if I am not using their music app, and their maps, I can still use CarPlay. I can use Google Maps for driving directions, or ABRP. I can bring in my local radio station over cellular rather than FM, or use a music app that is only currently in TestFlight. Ironically, despite Apple wanting me in their ecosystem, their ecosystem is currently more inclusive of the things I want to do, which can include not using Apple's ecosystem of apps, ironically. Rivian unfortunately is not as inclusive because direct partnerships are needed (e.g. Spotify, etc).

 

[Eric]

And this is part of the bind car makers and Apple are both in, IMO.

"Last input wins" works fine for many cases, but in cases like Eric's, it does fall down. Because the act of the phone connecting (automatically) is now the "last input" and wins over the person's choice of a radio station.

So if you can keep someone in one or another ecosystem, it stays in the "It Just Works" world for the most part. Car makers would like it if you stayed in their eco system, and Apple would like it if you stayed in theirs. I lean towards Apple's because even if I am not using their music app, and their maps, I can still use CarPlay. I can use Google Maps for driving directions, or ABRP. I can bring in my local radio station over cellular rather than FM, or use a music app that is only currently in TestFlight. Ironically, despite Apple wanting me in their ecosystem, their ecosystem is currently more inclusive of the things I want to do, which can include not using Apple's ecosystem of apps, ironically. Rivian unfortunately is not as inclusive because direct partnerships are needed (e.g. Spotify, etc).

Great explanation of my situation. It’s perfect if you’re bypassing the car systems entirely, at the same time how does it incentivize manufacturers to build better tech?

I way prefer Waze or Apple Maps to the stock mapping system in the BMW for example, but the infotainment system is excellent. So I have to sacrifice one or the other because I can’t seamlessly have both.

I suspect the true way around this is wired, so no wireless priorities are given to hijack all audio but BMW no longer offers it.