Samsung 5k 27" & Dell 6k 32" monitors announced at CES

[casperes1996]

Must admit I don't really like the design of either. The Samsung has too sharp edges for my taste - round them off just a tiny bit and it will feel nicer and more natural I think. I also dislike the non-uniform bezels. I fully agree with Theorist that for multi-monitor setups, minimising the sides is the most important, but I only ever really run 1 display and honestly I'd rather have all sides be as thick as the bottom than have it be visually uneven in the way it frames the content.
For the Dell, I just am not into any of it design wise. It looks like an unfinished testing design to me.

That said, if the display quality is good, the unit-to-unit manufacturing variance is low and the price is right, I could easily see myself picking one of these for a Mac Studio upgrade one day. If the price is too close to the Apple displays though I would pick one of those honestly.
And frankly, give me no speakers in the display and a poor 720p camera if a camera at all, and no I/O other than display in; Just a really nice looking display panel. I don't need the extras. I have nice speakers and outside of pandemic times I don't really need a webcam. I have a nice DSLR, I have an iPhone, and should I need a high quality webcam stream, I'll just use my laptop's camera since it's rather rare. I get a display to be a display.

 

[Cmaier]

Must admit I don't really like the design of either. The Samsung has too sharp edges for my taste - round them off just a tiny bit and it will feel nicer and more natural I think. I also dislike the non-uniform bezels. I fully agree with Theorist that for multi-monitor setups, minimising the sides is the most important, but I only ever really run 1 display and honestly I'd rather have all sides be as thick as the bottom than have it be visually uneven in the way it frames the content.
For the Dell, I just am not into any of it design wise. It looks like an unfinished testing design to me.

That said, if the display quality is good, the unit-to-unit manufacturing variance is low and the price is right, I could easily see myself picking one of these for a Mac Studio upgrade one day. If the price is too close to the Apple displays though I would pick one of those honestly.
And frankly, give me no speakers in the display and a poor 720p camera if a camera at all, and no I/O other than display in; Just a really nice looking display panel. I don't need the extras. I have nice speakers and outside of pandemic times I don't really need a webcam. I have a nice DSLR, I have an iPhone, and should I need a high quality webcam stream, I'll just use my laptop's camera since it's rather rare. I get a display to be a display.

If the price is right, I could see picking up one of these. Personally, i don’t mind the Dell too much. I’d rather have a functional camera than a pretty one.

But I’m also hopeful that Apple is going to come out with some better solutions soon.

 

[Colstan]

But I’m also hopeful that Apple is going to come out with some better solutions soon.

I'm currently using a 21.5-inch LG UltraFine, the same "Retina" 219ppi panel featured in the previous iMac of that size. I purchased it in the summer of 2021, brand new off of Ebay for $342 USD, half the original MSRP. Checking the EDID file, it was manufactured in week 5 of 2017.

LG stopped selling this monitor in 2019, so exactly where this technological leprechaun was hiding for over four years, I'm not sure, but it was unopened. It was a gamble that I lucked out on, because it has no dead/stuck pixels, didn't develop the notorious pink tint around the edges because of a slight manufacturing defect that has happened with both the UltraFines and iMacs, and it hasn't experienced any ghosting or image retention issues. While I have heard horror stories about the UltraFines, I appear to have dodged any of those troubles.

Despite being a generally plastic-y build that would be more expected from monitors a decade ago, it doesn't have any external visual drawbacks. I'm not talking about the screen, which is excellent, but the casing. Unlike the larger 27-inch UltraFine, the bezels are uniform, since it doesn't include a camera. It's also not top-heavy, unlike its bigger brother, so it doesn't wobble when there's a light breeze as a bug whizzes by. It's a boring product, but that's a good thing, because there's nothing to distract from the high-quality screen. For users like me, who don't need extra frills, a larger display, or multi-monitor support, it's perfect. It's a shame that LG canceled it, because it was the only ~219ppi standalone monitor at a reasonable price, which is perhaps why LG did away with it. It also utilizes DisplayPort Alt Mode, instead of Thunderbolt, which makes it easy to hook up to a PC with the right adapter, if I ever needed to go slumming with it.

The Apple Studio Display is decent, but the panel itself isn't substantially different compared to the UltraFines, which were introduced in 2016. I assume the new Samsung monitor is similar to the Apple and LG 5K offerings, perhaps at a lower price point. The improvements in the new Samsung and Apple Studio Display are minor compared to the LG 5K.

But I’m also hopeful that Apple is going to come out with some better solutions soon.

Which is the crux of it, for me. I don't do photography or require a webcam. Extra features are nice, but I don't personally need them. I care about the panel, not the aesthetics, as long as it doesn't look like a clown car or have a glaringly distracting element that takes away from the screen. I know that Apple is never going to release a budget monitor, and when I say "budget", I mean something under $1,500.

What would temp me away is a "Retina" class ~219ppi monitor, featuring newer technologies, such as mini-LED or OLED utilizing 120Hz ProMotion. Ross Young has hinted around about Apple developing a 27-inch mini-LED monitor. Exactly where this would fall in the product stack is unclear, if it is ever released. It would almost assuredly be far more costly than the Apple Studio Display. However, that technology will eventually filter down into Apple's mainstream monitor, even if it takes many years. Until then, I'm good with my utilitarian 21.5-inch UltraFine, but would like to upgrade to better panel technology, once it becomes more commonplace. Having choices from Apple, LG, Dell and Samsung are all great news, and hopefully we'll continue to see companies provide competitive alternatives to Apple's offerings.

While I appreciate Apple's build quality, I've always been more concerned with the panel inside the casing. My current LG UltraFine isn't my first rodeo in using a monitor featuring an identical panel to what Apple offers for a significantly reduced price. Before I got the LG, I used a Dell 2005FPW that used the exact same panel as the 20-inch Cinema Display, just $300 cheaper than Apple's product. It's currently sitting in my closet as a spare, but I got a good 16-year run out of it.

 

[casperes1996]

I’d rather have a functional camera than a pretty one.

I would agree if I wanted a webcam. But at that stage why are we bundling webcams and monitors together in the first place? Buy a good monitor and a good webcam separately if so desired. The monitor can be cheaper at a given quality. Downside would be with monitors for which it is hard to attach a webcam with slim bezels but I’m sure solutions can be engineered for that. Like wrapping around the width of the monitor from behind

 

[Cmaier]

I would agree if I wanted a webcam. But at that stage why are we bundling webcams and monitors together in the first place? Buy a good monitor and a good webcam separately if so desired. The monitor can be cheaper at a given quality. Downside would be with monitors for which it is hard to attach a webcam with slim bezels but I’m sure solutions can be engineered for that. Like wrapping around the width of the monitor from behind

Good points. Personally, the extra wire for an external webcam would bother me more than the ugly built-in webcam. Heck, right now I use my iPhone as a webcam, and it doesn’t bother me because there’s no wire

 

[casperes1996]

Good points. Personally, the extra wire for an external webcam would bother me more than the ugly built-in webcam. Heck, right now I use my iPhone as a webcam, and it doesn’t bother me because there’s no wire

Yeah, but then you already have a no-monitor-camera solution going. I'm not saying all monitors should forego the camera, speakers and other add-ons folk might want. But it feels like it's becoming almost impossible to just get a nice display that's just that. Even if I only save $40 by not getting speakers, mics and a camera in a display; I'd take that deal - cause I just don't get enough benefit out of them

 

[Cmaier]

Yeah, but then you already have a no-monitor-camera solution going. I'm not saying all monitors should forego the camera, speakers and other add-ons folk might want. But it feels like it's becoming almost impossible to just get a nice display that's just that. Even if I only save $40 by not getting speakers, mics and a camera in a display; I'd take that deal - cause I just don't get enough benefit out of them

I agree - it gets really weird when you have multiple monitors, each with their own speakers, camera, etc., too.

 

[Citysnaps]

Overall I’m pleased with my ASD. Overpriced, sure, somewhat, but the image quality is outstanding - which is something I care a lot about pretty much living in Lightroom processing photos.

There’s no way I’d settle for less than 5K res, and the XDR was way outside my budget. I really like the built-in reference modes. After making a brightness adjustment for room lighting at the time, prints come out perfectly.

The speakers are OK (better than most built-in computer speakers) and better than the one in the Mac Studio. I have an original HomePod for listening to music.

The camera…it works, but is not great - it’s just OK and fine for my needs. I think that’s the result of Center Stage and needing to use a wide angle lens in order to "follow" the user. Thus, the image is cropped and sharpness jacked up (I’m guessing) to “compensate” for resolution. Which makes things look a little crispy.

What I do like are its three USB-C ports, as I’m using all of the TB/USB-C ports on the back of my computer driving other displays.

I’d love a lower cost 6K 32 inch display from Apple, maybe around $2.5K to $3K (with a stand) or so. But don’t see that happening.

Maybe the Dell will be a good option at a decent price.

 

[MEJHarrison]

6 months ago, this would have been welcome news. Now I have the Studio Display. It cost a ton, but I do love it. I have no plans to replace it anytime soon. And based on previous experiences with Apple, I'll have no need to replace it anytime soon. So this news really isn't that exciting to me. It's roughly 6 months too late. But it's cool that there will soon be other options out there.

 

[Pumbaa]

I got myself a heavily discounted 23.7” UltraFine 4K last year and couldn’t be happier*. Sure, I miss the real estate of my previous 27” and the 32” at work, but the HiDPI mode and overall quality is sooo worth it.

Let’s see what these new screens can do and what they will cost. 5k@27” and 6k@32” both sound nice.

* Maximum happiness adjusted to reflect my budget.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Amazing to me that Apple hasn't put one of their special magnetic ports on the top/back of their monitors to add a truly awesome webcam for those who want/need it.

Insisting that it's built in .. and thus gimped on specs a bit, sort of sucks

 

[Pumbaa]

Innovation would be to put the webcam in the actual display, not on top of a skyscraper. Have the pixels covering the webcam work as usual when the webcam isn't in use and clear them when in use. Peekaboo!

Video calls would be so much nicer if people at least looked like they were looking at each other!

 

[theorist9]

I agree - it gets really weird when you have multiple monitors, each with their own speakers, camera, etc., too.

Since I run three monitors, I'm thinking the same thing. Though it could come in handy when we switch to Zoom 3D .

Right now I have two cameras (the built-in in my iMac, and a Logitech C910). I set up the compter to use the Logitech but, every once in a while, it reverts to the iMac. Keeping it set to one camera when it has four choices (three monitors plus the Logitech) could be inconvenient.

It is curious that Dell chose to include a camera and speakers here, since their 8k doesn't, and their 4k's generally don't as well. One exception is their 4k 32" video conferencing monitor, but with its high ppi this 6k is not for that. I guess they're following Apple's lead with the ASD, while I would have preferred to see them follow Apple's lead with the XDR (which lacks camera/speakers/microphone).

Pro tip for those who can become complancent during WFH: Buy a USB camera and tape those on your monitor(s). This protects against embarrassing mistakes--like it's warm at your place, so you're not wearing a shirt, and don't bother to put one on for a Zoom meeting where no cameras are needed. It's really easy to accidentally turn on your video without realizing it. Since my iMac's camera is taped, and I only mount the Logitech specifically when I want to do video (otherwise it's stowed on the desk behind my computer facing away from me), the worst that happens is they get a view of my back wall. [Please, no Jeffrey Toobin jokes; it's just a shirt, for Pete's sake!]

 

[theorist9]

Update: According to https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/dells-new-ultrasharp-monitor-is-a-6k-powerhouse-for-pros/ , the Dell will have 12 local dimming zones. This bodes well for its pricing, since that's subsantially fewer than the 576 on the XDR. Plus the Dell offers 600 nits max vs. the XDR's 1600; and the Dell's LG Black panel seems unlikely to be 10 bits (which the XDR's is) since, if it were, surely that would have been included in Dell's press release.

These things, along with its inclusion of a camera and speakers, indicate the Dell 6k will be much more like a larger version of the ASD than a competitior to the XDR.

 

[Cmaier]

Update: According to https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/dells-new-ultrasharp-monitor-is-a-6k-powerhouse-for-pros/ , the Dell will have 12 local dimming zones. This bodes well for its pricing, since that's subsantially fewer than the 576 on the XDR. Plus the Dell offers 600 nits max vs. the XDR's 1600; and the Dell's LG Black panel seems unlikely to be 10 bits (which the XDR's is) since, if it were, surely that would have been included in Dell's press release.

These things, along with its inclusion of a camera and speakers, indicate the Dell 6k will be much more like a larger version of the ASD than a competitior to the XDR.

12 seems like it would not be good.

 

[Citysnaps]

12 seems like it would not be good.

That's a lot of pixels to futz with in the same manner!

 

[theorist9]

12 seems like it would not be good.

That's a lot of pixels to futz with in the same manner!

Agreed, that's why I put the Dell 6k in the same category as the ASD, which has no local dimming. I'd imagine so few zones would provide benefit only for scenes with large bright and dark areas, and that you'd get artifacts at the transitions between them.

 

[B01L]

Pro tip for those who can become complancent during WFH: Buy a USB camera and tape those on your monitor(s). This protects against embarrassing mistakes--like it's warm at your place, so you're not wearing a shirt, and don't bother to put one on for a Zoom meeting where no cameras are needed. It's really easy to accidentally turn on your video without realizing it. Since my iMac's camera is taped, and I only mount the Logitech specifically when I want to do video (otherwise it's stowed on the desk behind my computer facing away from me), the worst that happens is they get a view of my back wall. [Please, no Jeffrey Toobin jokes; it's just a shirt, for Pete's sake!]

My Logitech webcam has a built-in cover for the camera that I have to manually open & close, so when closed I see a big white dot assuring me the camera is covered, but it does not cut off the mics, so I guess my FBI handler can hear whatever I am doing, poor bastard...! ;^p

 

[Andropov]

Maybe the Samsung is a one-off, but hopefully it means more entries into this space, along with the potential for lower pricing—by which I mean consumer-priced Retina externals, which we don't yet have (the Samsung seems to target the prosumer market, same as the ASD). I'm sure many MBA buyers would like to hook up a large Retina external for home use, but the ASD's $1600 starting price is a big ask for a consumer whose laptop budget was ~$1400. Many say a 4k 27" is good enough, but I've found that MacOS really needs a Retina display to look its best.

It's wild that in 2015 we had several external retina options (Dell 27UP15K, HP Z27Q, LG UltraFine 27MD5KL...) and then all 3rd parties stopped making them in favor of lower-res 27"4K only. 8 years later and we're still only starting to see retina resolutions reappear.

Update: According to https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/dells-new-ultrasharp-monitor-is-a-6k-powerhouse-for-pros/ , the Dell will have 12 local dimming zones.

Ugh. Low-res dimming zones look terrible most of the time, I'd prefer having no dimming zones at all. I've had (or seen) several TVs using low quality local dimming and it's super distracting. I'm talking about things like on this video (when he moves the cursor around). I'm guessing with 12 local dimming zones it's not using edge LEDs but it's still potentially terrible. I partially blame the HDR spec certifying screens as HDR 600 (for example) using extremely coarse dimming zones.

EDIT: I'm not saying coarse local dimming it always terrible, in some scenes it might look good even, but there are some pathological cases where it looks so bad that I wish it was always disabled. Some TVs do this even with a single dimming zone, visibly pushing the entire panel backlight up/down based on scene content. Which for example absolutely breaks with white subtitles on movies, since that requires full panel brightness. Or when scenes fade to black, causing the entire backlighting to visibly turn off for a second.

 

[Citysnaps]

Over the last two days I’ve been thinking more about display “dimming zones,” and whether that’s something I’d need or want.

Not having a display on my desk with that feature means I can only speculate (perhaps with insufficient understanding and information), rather than experiment and come to a more concrete assesment.

So far, the short answer is no, not for the kind of photographs I like to make (rather than “take”), the post-processing I do, and how I make prints to hang (or put into book form) or display online. Certainly not with 12 dimming zones, and very likely not with 576 on the XDR.

I'm just not seeing the point, and can see situations where it would routinely interfere with post-processing/printing and get in the way of producing prints or online images.

Perhaps that display feature isn’t meant for photographers who post-process and print. In case I’m missing something, if anyone feels differently please weigh in and set me straight.