Tesla recalls nearly 54,000 vehicles that may disobey stop signs

[Eric]

Hahaha, oh sure, and by anti-Tesla, I don't mean being critical of Tesla (don't get me started on the Yoke ...), just like I don't consider someone who's positive about something Tesla related to be a "fanboy" (man do I hate that fucking word ...)

There's a group of people, I mean, they post so much I know them by name, that skulk around waiting to pounce on anything Tesla related ...

“Who’s the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?” – Obi-Wan Kenobi

That's me right there buddy, I freaking love this car and have never understood all the hate behind it. Yeah, we can criticize Elon for stupid statements but let's face it, he's created a monster and an innovation not seen since the iPhone came out.

 

[diamond.g]

A point of a recall is to fix a critical safety issue in a vehicle. I am not sure what you expect the NHTSA to say about going over the speed limit.

The critical safety issue was the vehicle not following traffic laws right?


Edit. So the issue it the risk of collisions from not stopping. Can’t the same thing be used for Tesla allowing FSD to go over the speed limit?

 

[User.168]

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[User.168]

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[diamond.g]

You should go and speak to Tesla, since Tesla agreed that this is a safety critical issue and needs addressing via a recall. That's all there is to it.

I realise that you take this as a serious and personal affront, hence why I could see where you were going with your line of thought from your initial post, but it's ok. It's not a big deal. I didn't personally get upset when my two Mercs had a safety recall last year and were fixed via an OTA. It didn't change how much I enjoy the cars. I didn't comment on news article about this issue that it wasn't really a recall, or tried to defend Daimler AG. Why does it upset a certain segment of Tesla owners? Your car is not an extension of you, or your personality.

Wooow. I don’t take it personally. To be honest when I saw the option I thought it was dumb and specifically chose to use the Chill setting.

I thought we were just going down the line of things to peg Tesla on is all. Speeding is a valid concern if we were worried about the vehicle following traffic laws.

 

[User.168]

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[Chew Toy McCoy]

Can we also recall 100 million humans who disobey stop signs?

 

[User.168]

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[Chew Toy McCoy]

You are missing the point. “self driving” is supposed to make driving safer, because many humans are not, as you are demonstrating. Programming bad driving behaviour into self driving vehicles isn’t going to do that. What’s next? ‘Drive home drunk’ mode? Lots of people do that too.

My comment wasn't made against this type of technology or relying on it. It was more "while we're at it...".

 

[SuperMatt]

Many drivers have reported “phantom braking” on Teslas recently.

Luis Fernandez, who drives a 2022 Tesla Model Y, said he was at Taylor Street and Pine Street in San Francisco recently when his car spotted a plastic bag several feet in front of him. The bag didn’t pose a hazard and was soon out of his view, said Fernandez, who uses the vehicle to drive for Uber.
But his car jolted him from 25 mph to 15 mph before he could intervene.
“Suddenly the car kind of locked, but it immediately released because the plastic bag moved away. . . . The car just completely took precaution,” he said. “Automatically, it braked.”

https://wapo.st/3oknamM

(paywall removed)

 

[Eric]

I don't know, the car was designed in California, by a Californian where everyone does California stops... it all makes sense to me.

 

[quagmire]

Many drivers have reported “phantom braking” on Teslas recently.

https://wapo.st/3oknamM

(paywall removed)

Was Luis using cruise control or autopilot on a city street? Or was this a false emergency braking?

I am not going to say Tesla Vision doesn't need improvement, but this goes back to an earlier discussion where drivers are using these systems at inappropriate times. The common theme I see this complaint is when people try to use these systems on local roads when they are meant for highways. Now where Tesla Vision needs improvement is undivided highways because it is the user using the systems appropriately, but since the highway is undivided, the system freaks out at oncoming vehicles( trucks in particular). Divided highways it has little problems in my experience.

 

[SuperMatt]

Was Luis using cruise control or autopilot on a city street? Or was this a false emergency braking?

I am not going to say Tesla Vision doesn't need improvement, but this goes back to an earlier discussion where drivers are using these systems at inappropriate times. The common theme I see this complaint is when people try to use these systems on local roads when they are meant for highways. Now where Tesla Vision needs improvement is undivided highways because it is the user using the systems appropriately, but since the highway is undivided, the system freaks out at oncoming vehicles( trucks in particular). Divided highways it has little problems in my experience.

That was just one story:

Owner reports of phantom braking to NHTSA rose to 107 complaints in the past three months, compared with only 34 in the preceding 22 months.

While not huge in absolute numbers, that’s a massive increase, and suggests there is something going on. And in some cases, it happened while the auto-driving was off.

Some drivers recalled instances of phantom braking even when they were not using Autopilot. Other owners said in complaints to NHTSA that they were shaken by the incidents and feared being rear-ended.

As for people using the system at inappropriate times, let’s not forget it was marketed as “autopilot” by Tesla.

 

[Herdfan]

I guess it depends on what you read and where... but let's look at this forum and the ars comments section... the first few posts of every Arstechnica article factually stating that Tesla is doing a recall go roughly like this:

I initially asked the recall question because I didn't know if it could be done via update or not.

I will say that recalls with Tesla are a different animal than with regular cars. With most cars, a recall notice requires a customer to do something, Tesla does not. I can ignore recall notices if I choose, Tesla owners probably can't.

 

[User.168]

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[Eric]

Was Luis using cruise control or autopilot on a city street? Or was this a false emergency braking?

I am not going to say Tesla Vision doesn't need improvement, but this goes back to an earlier discussion where drivers are using these systems at inappropriate times. The common theme I see this complaint is when people try to use these systems on local roads when they are meant for highways. Now where Tesla Vision needs improvement is undivided highways because it is the user using the systems appropriately, but since the highway is undivided, the system freaks out at oncoming vehicles( trucks in particular). Divided highways it has little problems in my experience.

It's an ongoing issue, it would be nice if you could simply use dumb cruise control but they won't allow that.

Here's an example someone just posted to Reddit where the phantom breaking is constant, jarring for both the driver and the oncoming traffic as they see you slowing down for no reason. Tesla needs to address it, even just standard TACC should work in basic situations like this.

 

[quagmire]

That was just one story:



While not huge in absolute numbers, that’s a massive increase, and suggests there is something going on. And in some cases, it happened while the auto-driving was off.



As for people using the system at inappropriate times, let’s not forget it was marketed as “autopilot” by Tesla.

I know, hence why I asked was it autopilot or cruise control or was it a false emergency braking activation. Phantom Braking and False emergency braking is two different events. All it takes for phantom braking to occur is to have cruise control on. People who have complained about phantom braking used cruise control on local 30 MPH limit streets. Cruise control was never meant to be used on local roads. Always for highways.

I am not trying to sound defensive and be defending Tesla cause you're right "autopilot" and "full self driving" are very deceptive terms. So Tesla shares some blame for any misuse of the systems. But it still annoys me when people want to take an L2 system and try to use it like it is L4 or L5. You hate driving I get it, but use the systems appropriately.

As I originally stated, there is definitely a problem with Tesla Vision when it comes to undivided highways.

 

[quagmire]

It's an ongoing issue, it would be nice if you could simply use dumb cruise control but they won't allow that.

Here's an example someone just posted to Reddit where the phantom breaking is constant, jarring for both the driver and the oncoming traffic as they see you slowing down for no reason. Tesla needs to address it, even just standard TACC should work in basic situations like this.

In that scenario I agree it should work. I am not trying to deny there is an issue. But in Luis's case and other people I see on reddit, it just annoys me when I see misuse of a cars feature that is not designed or intended to be used the way they are using it.

In my reply to Matt, Tesla still shares the blame in this because how they market the features as autopilot or FSD. But even those who are better informed on the systems beyond marketing BS names still try to defend using AP or TACC in situations they were not designed for.

 

[User.168]

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[quagmire]

I have seen Tesla owners reporting phantom braking on highways. To be fair, I have seen owners of other brands reporting the same issue.

Here is the Tesla story that I read a few months ago

Tesla recalls 11,706 vehicles over Full Self-Driving Beta software bug

The new software bug caused phantom emergency braking events.

arstechnica.com

This was a very specific issue though and I don't think it's the normal phantom braking that people complain about.

I have experienced it as well though very infrequent since my use case have been on divided highways. While the issue really presents itself on undivided highways. I am not denying there is an issue. I know my posts may be coming across as Tesla Fanboy/defending Tesla, but it isn't meant to be. I guess it bugs me more with people inappropriately using a system. It's a giant pet peeve.

I see way too much reliance on companies spoon feeding consumers and if they don't spoon feed the consumer, the consumer is completely ignorant and doesn't bother to do any research of their own. Way too many people on reddit who took delivery of their Model 3 Performance are now going, " Tesla unsafe in the snow!" because they had no idea the car came with summer tires. The information is there on Tesla's website. But since the delivery associate didn't spoon feed them, they didn't bother to learn anything about their car.