The not-so-friendly skies?

[AG_PhamD]

More problems with planes colliding, again at Boston Logan of all places.

Two United Airlines Planes Clip Wings at Boston's Logan Airport

No one was injured when the two planes clipped Monday morning.

www.nbcboston.com

You’d think given all that’s happened lately that pilots, ATC, ground crew, etc would be super vigilant about not having planes collide in the sky or on the ground.

Also in recent news, more passenger problems:

Man Tries to Open Plane Door, Stab Flight Attendant on LA-Boston Flight, Feds Say

No one on board Flight 2609 was seriously hurt but the man “was restrained after becoming a security concern” by the plane’s crew and other customers.

www.nbcboston.com

This sounds like more of a mental health crisis than an unruly passenger or explicitly criminal act. I hope the guy gets the help he needs.

I assume flight attendants are very well trained in diffusing unruly passengers. But I wonder how well trained they are in diffusing those with mental health crises, particularly psychotic episodes. This seems to be more and more common- or at least more frequently reported. The approaches one might take for an angry or rude person isn’t necessary the same tact you’d want to take with someone who is delusional or hallucinating. And if they are trained, when was the last time a professional team reviewed the training materials?

I can’t say whether or not the crew responded correctly or not, but these situations often seem to end with a physical altercation and being restrained. While that very well may be necessary and the safety of the plane and passengers obviously supersedes everything else, such dramatic outcomes are scary and potentially traumatizing for everyone and should ideally be avoided if reasonably possible.

 

[Roller]

More problems with planes colliding, again at Boston Logan of all places.

Two United Airlines Planes Clip Wings at Boston's Logan Airport

No one was injured when the two planes clipped Monday morning.

www.nbcboston.com

You’d think given all that’s happened lately that pilots, ATC, ground crew, etc would be super vigilant about not having planes collide in the sky or on the ground.

Also in recent news, more passenger problems:

Man Tries to Open Plane Door, Stab Flight Attendant on LA-Boston Flight, Feds Say

No one on board Flight 2609 was seriously hurt but the man “was restrained after becoming a security concern” by the plane’s crew and other customers.

www.nbcboston.com

This sounds like more of a mental health crisis than an unruly passenger or explicitly criminal act. I hope the guy gets the help he needs.

I assume flight attendants are very well trained in diffusing unruly passengers. But I wonder how well trained they are in diffusing those with mental health crises, particularly psychotic episodes. This seems to be more and more common- or at least more frequently reported. The approaches one might take for an angry or rude person isn’t necessary the same tact you’d want to take with someone who is delusional or hallucinating. And if they are trained, when was the last time a professional team reviewed the training materials?

I can’t say whether or not the crew responded correctly or not, but these situations often seem to end with a physical altercation and being restrained. While that very well may be necessary and the safety of the plane and passengers obviously supersedes everything else, such dramatic outcomes are scary and potentially traumatizing for everyone and should ideally be avoided if reasonably possible.

I'm not alarmed about the wing clip incident, as unfortunate as it was because of its effect on flight schedules. Stuff like that is more common than most people are aware, but the media are more eager to report such episodes than ever before.

As for psychosis or bad/drunken behavior, I don't expect flight attendants to be able to handle them like mental health professionals. As you said, safety is paramount.

 

[AG_PhamD]

I'm not alarmed about the wing clip incident, as unfortunate as it was because of its effect on flight schedules. Stuff like that is more common than most people are aware, but the media are more eager to report such episodes than ever before.

As for psychosis or bad/drunken behavior, I don't expect flight attendants to be able to handle them like mental health professionals. As you said, safety is paramount.

I believe statistics show that such incidents are not uncommon, but they have doubled in recent times. Two planes bumping I suppose typically doesn’t cause major safety issues, but it’s not unreasonable that with more accidents occurring, the greater the risk of some unfortunate incident.

Aside from some rare but serious consequence, the routine issue is ultimately for the passengers- having flights delayed, potential financial implications if a hotel stay is required, etc. All the issues customers are already dealing with for something that should be preventable.

It also doesn’t inspire confidence in air travel, where safety is supposed to be first and foremost. Bird strikes and freak mechanical issues are one thing, but planes colliding are just not acceptable

Whether it’s increased schedules leading to hasty maneuvers and overburdened pilots, or a lack of experience due to many of the older pilots being pushed into retirement from the pandemic, the FAA and the airlines should really be working quickly to identify how they can minimize the increased risk of pilot error. If a pilot is making mistakes at low speed, then it’s foreseeable they can also make mistakes at high speeds where things get more dangerous.

I wouldn’t expect flight attendants to be mental health professionals in 3 months of flight attendant training, but I’m not suggesting they should be able to form a clinical diagnosis and treatment plan. There there are things that can be taught in a short amount of time to help diffuse or at lest not escalate people in crisis and stall things out until help can arrive (so called “Mental Health First Aid”. And what actually might be more important in these plane situations is not so much the interaction with the person in crisis, but how the flight attendants instruct the other passengers. Obviously some passengers will respond very negatively which easily escalate things unnecessarily.

The threat of authority (arrest from the authorities, legal punishment) might work for the unruly Karen refusing a seat change but for a someone experiencing paranoid psychosis, which frequently involves delusions of government persecution, you’re only reinforcing the delusion and escalating fear and the risk of him lashing out.

There’s a video of the incident online. He is clearly mentally ill- talking about invincibility and his father is Dracula(?). I suspect to things were probably escalated by other passengers as he appears to be directing some of his comments at someone, which turns into him making threats of violence to which passengers start moving toward him, which is when he pulls his weapon. Not an ideal outcome and definitely a very dangerous situation at that point for everyone.

That’s not to say I don’t criticize people for taking him down, that’s well within their right. I commend the passengers for their courage in protecting everyone. Maybe this was not at all preventable and I don’t know what happened before the video starts. But this could have ended much worse and minimizing the risk should be the goal.

 

[Roller]

I believe statistics show that such incidents are not uncommon, but they have doubled in recent times. Two planes bumping I suppose typically doesn’t cause major safety issues, but it’s not unreasonable that with more accidents occurring, the greater the risk of some unfortunate incident.

Aside from some rare but serious consequence, the routine issue is ultimately for the passengers- having flights delayed, potential financial implications if a hotel stay is required, etc. All the issues customers are already dealing with for something that should be preventable.

It also doesn’t inspire confidence in air travel, where safety is supposed to be first and foremost. Bird strikes and freak mechanical issues are one thing, but planes colliding are just not acceptable

Whether it’s increased schedules leading to hasty maneuvers and overburdened pilots, or a lack of experience due to many of the older pilots being pushed into retirement from the pandemic, the FAA and the airlines should really be working quickly to identify how they can minimize the increased risk of pilot error. If a pilot is making mistakes at low speed, then it’s foreseeable they can also make mistakes at high speeds where things get more dangerous.

I wouldn’t expect flight attendants to be mental health professionals in 3 months of flight attendant training, but I’m not suggesting they should be able to form a clinical diagnosis and treatment plan. There there are things that can be taught in a short amount of time to help diffuse or at lest not escalate people in crisis and stall things out until help can arrive (so called “Mental Health First Aid”. And what actually might be more important in these plane situations is not so much the interaction with the person in crisis, but how the flight attendants instruct the other passengers. Obviously some passengers will respond very negatively which easily escalate things unnecessarily.

The threat of authority (arrest from the authorities, legal punishment) might work for the unruly Karen refusing a seat change but for a someone experiencing paranoid psychosis, which frequently involves delusions of government persecution, you’re only reinforcing the delusion and escalating fear and the risk of him lashing out.

There’s a video of the incident online. He is clearly mentally ill- talking about invincibility and his father is Dracula(?). I suspect to things were probably escalated by other passengers as he appears to be directing some of his comments at someone, which turns into him making threats of violence to which passengers start moving toward him, which is when he pulls his weapon. Not an ideal outcome and definitely a very dangerous situation at that point for everyone.

That’s not to say I don’t criticize people for taking him down, that’s well within their right. I commend the passengers for their courage in protecting everyone. Maybe this was not at all preventable and I don’t know what happened before the video starts. But this could have ended much worse and minimizing the risk should be the goal.

The problem I have with the clipping incident is that many people who read or watched TV news reports about it didn't catch that one of the aircraft was being pushed from the gate, so the pilot wasn't at fault. Yes, ground crew need to be more careful, and yes, this caused problems for the passengers, but the public may see this and runway incursions as equivalent examples of poor safety, when they're not. This impression is fostered by the language in media accounts, including the one you linked to: The incident comes less than a week after two planes had what the Federal Aviation Administration called a "close call" at the airport, with a small jet that took off without clearance crossing the path of a JetBlue plane, which was forced to take evasive action during landing.

I have compassion for people with mental health disorders like the one on the United flight, and I agree that de-escalation verbally is preferable to physical altercation. But if a passenger is about to attack a flight attendant or do something else to harm someone, I'm all for people doing whatever it takes to subdue and restrain them.