The States Rights Argument

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The vast majority of anti-vaxxers were born of hyper-political contrarianism fueled by grifters and exponentially made worse by the internet. If these factors existed in the late 1930’s we’d all be speaking German right now.

 

[Roller]

The vast majority of anti-vaxxers were born of hyper-political contrarianism fueled by grifters and exponentially made worse by the internet. If these factors existed in the late 1930’s we’d all be speaking German right now.

And some of us wouldn't be alive right now.

 

[Alli]

But as a previous post said, get vaxxed or go work somewhere else, why not just go somewhere else for an abortion.

Republicans are literally criminalizing going somewhere else for abortion.

As leman says, it’s easy to tell a woman to go elsewhere for an abortion, but states like Texas won’t allow women to leave. That’s a great new level of denying rights.

 

[MEJHarrison]

As leman says, it’s easy to tell a woman to go elsewhere for an abortion, but states like Texas won’t allow women to leave. That’s a great new level of denying rights.

Even when they are allowed to leave the state, only the more affluent can afford to do so. They turn poor pregnant women into welfare moms, then complain about them being welfare moms and do all they can to keep them from getting money and assistance.

 

[leman]

Even when they are allowed to leave the state, only the more affluent can afford to do so. They turn poor pregnant women into welfare moms, then complain about them being welfare moms and do all they can to keep them from getting money and assistance.

And it looks like this is by design. Republicans are interested in increasing poverty, since poor uneducated members of the populations are more likely to vote for them.

To be frank though, the huge problem of the USA democracy — gerrymandering — has been aggressively used by both parties for political points. It feels like the system is broken at the core. And nobody is interested in improving things.

 

[rdrr]

And it looks like this is by design. Republicans are interested in increasing poverty, since poor uneducated members of the populations are more likely to vote for them.

To be frank though, the huge problem of the USA democracy — gerrymandering — has been aggressively used by both parties for political points. It feels like the system is broken at the core. And nobody is interested in improving things.

I would start looking at suing the state(s) that mandate carrying a pregnancy to term, to give that person a livable stipend for 26 years. In the case of multiple children the same stipend x number of children.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Even when they are allowed to leave the state, only the more affluent can afford to do so. They turn poor pregnant women into welfare moms, then complain about them being welfare moms and do all they can to keep them from getting money and assistance.

They are also happy to slash funding for public schools (in favor of sending money to private religious schools), happy to end free school lunch programs, kill extracurricular activities (which are often just as critical for kids as the basics like math and reading), etc.

They don't give a shit about anyone, and that includes the unborn. It's just a tool they can use to exert power, nothing more. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of individuals passionate about the concept of an unborn life, but the vast majority certainly don't do anything beyond acting pious - and indeed, as you mentioned, vilifying people like single mothers or people who need assistance.

 

[Herdfan]

As leman says, it’s easy to tell a woman to go elsewhere for an abortion, but states like Texas won’t allow women to leave. That’s a great new level of denying rights.

I get that they try, but as soon as this hits a Federal Court it should be overturned.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Why not some coalition of moderate dems and conservatives to push for reduced abortion rates but safe and legal access? Democrats would have to give a little bit in acknowledging that there is actually a life in the womb, which we often try to dampen to make the word “abortion” seem less harsh, and it would push pro-lifers to acknowledge facts about science, health and freedom.

The sad part is most people, left or right, are usually somewhat centrist (or, at least most representatives in congress are). But politics is this bizarre team sport where the fringe of each party often dominates in a tail wagging the dog sort of way.

 

[Alli]

I get that they try, but as soon as this hits a Federal Court it should be overturned.

I wish I were sure of that.

 

[Huntn]

Vote was 6-3. Even assuming Garland was on the court instead of Gorsuch, the vote is 5-4. Still overturned. RBG screwed the Dems. And it looks like Sotomayor may be following suit.



Calling people you don't agree with STUPID is not a winning argument. Maybe someday the Dems will learn that. But hopefully not.

And the Dems are just as cozy with corporate America. The difference now is the Dems used to be the party of the working class, but have lost that to the GOP.

Now that is fucking hilarious if not so disastrous and proves my point about STUPID. Allow me to explain. As far as calling them stupid, they are either or some combination of stupid, prejudice, unrealistically selfish, or co-conspirators, which is it? If I was trying to win an argument, the label would only be used after the point beyond reasoning with them which arguably they are.

And I’m not talking about self sufficient or prejudice old farts whose panties are in a knot over equal rights for LGBTQ, or think we should be a Christian theocracy, and that their religious views trump womens’ body autonomy. I’m talking about actual working class people who apparantly are so prejudice they have ceased to recognize the hostility and contempt the Right Wing regards them with, little more than modern day slaves. Look at any of their policies, any policy that benefit the working class, medical, retirement, a good wage, at least a living wage, profit sharing, quality of life, what you get is ”sorry we can’t afford that“ while they bend over backwards servicing their real masters, the wealthy.

Actually I agree that Democrats are too cozy with corporate America, but to choose the fucking Right Wing as champions of the working class, if you’re working class, you’ve got to be stupid or blinded by prejudice and I’d be laughing my ass off if it was not such a disaster for the country and the working class. Any working class citizen who vests themselves in such a corrupt group of anti-American, anti-democratic, anti-civil rights liars whose intent is to keep them uncomfortably on the bottom, actually deserves what they will get, if enough of us aren't smart enough to recognize the agenda.

 

[Huntn]

Except when it comes to having to take a vaccine I guess. The Dems absolutely would have forced this on every single person if they could have.

Vaccines work. When arguing this in terms of civilizations, the positives outweigh the negatives to such a point, there is no valid argument against them. If COVID had been the equivalent of the 1917 Spanish flu alot more anti-vaxers would not be around to complain about vaccines.

You (generalization) don‘t want to vaccinates you kids, then home school them. The only reason Vaccines work is though herd immunity, does this really need to be explained? Actually for the MAGA crowd, it does. Why is STUPID on the edge of my lips again? (Not directed at you per se).

 

[Huntn]

Some cities did mandate it for city employees and for the public to have access to certain spaces.

But as a previous post said, get vaxxed or go work somewhere else, why not just go somewhere else for an abortion.

Either my body, my choice is absolute or it isn't.

Remember, I am not opposed to abortion. I am not for it being legal 10 minutes before the baby is born, but comfortable with 20-24 weeks.

“Some cities did mandate it for city employees and for the public to have access to certain spaces.”
As it should be for herd immunity to work.

“Either my body, my choice is absolute or it isn't.”
Yes, it is, and regarding deadly infectious diseases, as long as long as you keep to yourself.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Some cities did mandate it for city employees and for the public to have access to certain spaces.

But as a previous post said, get vaxxed or go work somewhere else, why not just go somewhere else for an abortion.

Either my body, my choice is absolute or it isn't.

Remember, I am not opposed to abortion. I am not for it being legal 10 minutes before the baby is born, but comfortable with 20-24 weeks.

A vaccine is a choice, an abortion in some cases is not, if you want to live. YouTube is flush with videos of people proudly and openly mocking vaccines, going into private businesses and berating employees because they think it’s their constitutional right to go into any store and flout the rules. My job made me get vaccinated to return to work. It wasn’t forced. I also had a part-time job with no such requirement. Businesses that were supposed to close opened up and did media tours and newspaper interviews bragging that their restaurants were no mask, no vaccines required.

Once funds went out to help businesses that abided by the rules, a couple of local businesses that didn’t follow COVID guidelines were denied federal funds. And then they found out even in a conservative town, more people got vaccinated and masked up to protect themselves, and chose to go to safe locations. So they opened up GoFundMes, and found all the anti-COVID protocols fanbase they received was just lip service, and they ended up closing. There weren't enough anti-mask, anti-vaccine conservatives to support them, even though they pretended they were a small army while remaining open for business as usual.

They exercised their freedom and got a closed business to show for it. Not getting vaccinated didn’t close them down, the government didn’t close them down - they made dumb decisions and went broke.

Nobody forced them to close. Masks and vaccines weren’t forced on them. But they were also entitled, feeling it was unfair they didn’t get the same funds from the government that those who followed the guidelines did. In their mind, they are the victims, even though all they did was suffer the consequences of their own actions.

Your party is not abiding by the things you say you are comfortable with regarding abortion, so why are you defending the side you claim to not really agree with? The timeframe that you are or aren’t comfortable with an abortion, I’m sorry to say (even though I believe it’s a reasonable stance) still undercuts the idea of bodily autonomy.

A better comparison would be to ban someone from getting the vaccine or making poor people find some way to get a ride to another state - sometimes several states away - to receive it.

The GOP wants to prosecute women who receive abortions, and doctors or family and friends who help them in obtaining it. To my knowledge, nobody has a criminal record for refusing to be vaccinated.

 

[Edd]

There is most certainly a subset of Dems that would have required the vaccine if they could have gotten away with it. There are posts from members on this board who posted the unvaccinated should not be allowed integrate into society.

You all may have forgotten this, but the rest of us haven't.

People who’ve had abortions can’t spread abortions. People who are pregnant can’t spread pregnancy. Some unmasked fuckwit on a plane gave my wife and I COVID. Your post is dumb.

 

[Herdfan]

Some unmasked fuckwit on a plane gave my wife and I COVID. Your post is dumb.

Which has what to do with vaccines?

 

[Edd]

Which has what to do with vaccines?

Way to dodge the point.

 

[Herdfan]

Way to dodge the point.

You're the one who said unmasked, not unvaxxed.

 

[Edd]

You're the one who said unmasked, not unvaxxed.

It’s all about being contagious, but you have to understand that. You’ve made countless posts with bad faith arguments, or you’re incredibly dense. I don’t think you’re dense, just disingenuous.

 

[Alli]

The GOP wants to persecute women who receive abortions, and doctors or family and friends who help them in obtaining it. To my knowledge, nobody has a criminal record for refusing to be vaccinated.

Fixed it for ya.