Trans in Sports

[Eric]

No, but she might have done it a different way. Actually increasing taxes vs limiting deductions the way Trump did. I got a tax cut.



I don't think Putin invades Ukraine if Trump is in office. Biden looks weak on the world stage.



Trump was just doing what Biden had previously done with the same country.



He did neither of those thing and you know it.



Do we know this for sure, or is this just speculation?



Something needed to be done.


Nor did Trump. Stop watching MSNBC and go back and read his exact quote including all context.



Don't care.



But you don't care how much Biden charges the Secret Service to rent a cottage to protect him?


You mean like her husband and Obama did?

Here is what I do know, gas was in the $2-$3 range, inflation was low, people had money, store shelves were stocked and unemployment was low including among minorities. None of those things is true under Biden.

For someone who said they don't support Trump just look at how the lengths (sorry but nearly all of this borders parody) Republicans are going to in order to defend him. All I can say is have fun being strapped that anchor of disapproval. If there's a rematch he's toast.

Right now, the party is fighting a war on three very unpopular issues:
1) Pro-assault weapons
2) Pro-abortion
3) Anti-trans

All are hugely unpopular to most of the country, all recent polling suggests this. They took a bath in the midterms for what should have been a walk in the park historically speaking over this and they've done nothing but double down. Let us know when they get back to issues that people outside of a radical right wing circle that the general population actually support.

 

[Herdfan]

3) Anti-trans

All are hugely unpopular to most of the country, all recent polling suggests this.

Recent polling actually suggests that Americans don't support trans when it comes to athletics. By more than a 2-1 margin.

 

[Eric]

Recent polling actually suggests that Americans don't support trans when it comes to athletics. By more than a 2-1 margin.

Please cite your source, I'll provide mine.

Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues

Most favor protecting trans people from discrimination, but fewer support policies related to medical care for gender transitions; many are uneasy with the pace of change on trans issues.

www.pewresearch.org

It's a partisan issue and another one where Republicans are losing in the court of public opinion. The question is whether or not this give the party electability power, so far every issue they're holding dear is a loser for them.

 

[Herdfan]

Please cite your source, I'll provide mine.

Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues

Most favor protecting trans people from discrimination, but fewer support policies related to medical care for gender transitions; many are uneasy with the pace of change on trans issues.

www.pewresearch.org

It's a partisan issue and another one where Republicans are losing in the court of public opinion. The question is whether or not this give the party electability power, so far every issue they're holding dear is a loser for them.

Your source didn't address athletics which was specifically my point.

The poll is from NPR which should be acceptable.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1107484965/transgender-athletes-trans-rights-gender-transition-poll

The NPR/Ipsos poll shows that nearly two-thirds of Americans (63%) are opposed to allowing transgender women and girls to compete on teams that align with their gender identity, while 24% overall support that.

If you have polling that shows the opposite of that for ATHLETICS, please post it.

 

[Eric]

Your source didn't address athletics which was specifically my point.

The poll is from NPR which should be acceptable.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1107484965/transgender-athletes-trans-rights-gender-transition-poll

The NPR/Ipsos poll shows that nearly two-thirds of Americans (63%) are opposed to allowing transgender women and girls to compete on teams that align with their gender identity, while 24% overall support that.

If you have polling that shows the opposite of that for ATHLETICS, please post it.

Even though in the overall picture the issue of the war on LGBTQ is a loser for the party, I'll concede this. However, I'm still trying to see what this one specific issue has to do with this thread. Is it just cherry picked because you agree with that position?

 

[Herdfan]

Even though in the overall picture the issue of the war on LGBTQ is a loser for the party, I'll concede this. However, I'm still trying to see what this one specific issue has to do with this thread. Is it just cherry picked because you agree with that position?

Actually, when it comes to transgender people, I care about 2 things. First, athletics. My daughter was a swimmer and had she worked her ass off to make it to the NCAA's I would be furious if she lost to a guy. It is simply not fair.

Second, I think there is a component of this that is it the new "cool" thing to be. But anyone who wants to pump the brakes on transitioning teens just a bit is harassed and could lose their livelihood. I don't remember which thread, but someone posted that no one performing surgeries on under 18's. I posted several links that confirmed hospitals were and the thread died. Either they honestly had no idea and couldn't believe it was happening or they knew it was happening but don't want to admit it.

Otherwise, I don't give a rat's ass what people do in their own homes or how they go out in public. Just leave me out of it.

I do wonder how many of you with spouses or daughters would honestly be OK with them going into a locker room and having a biological male walk around with their junk out. Sadly I expect most of the answers to be that "it doesn't happen".

 

[Eric]

I do wonder how many of you with spouses or daughters would honestly be OK with them going into a locker room and having a biological male walk around with their junk out. Sadly I expect most of the answers to be that "it doesn't happen".

TBH I couldn't care less if it were my child. Life is full of different people, curtures, sexuality, etc. and if we just shelter our children they'll never have any real world experience with these things. Chances are they're more likely to be molested by teachers, priests, people they know and trust than someone whose genitals/sexualiry one may be offended by.

Statistically speaking, we should be far more concerned about our children getting shot to death.

 

[rdrr]

Not sure what this means. Are you saying it doesn't happen?

Sure it may happen, just like any crime could happen to anyone. Even straight white men commit crimes like sexual assault. *gasp* However, it doesn't happen like you are obviously implying.

My point it that you previously told someone to stop watching MSNBC about Trump's both sides quote. You should also not take up the Fox/OAN/Right wing nonsense on Trans people. You are trying to make some sort of assertion that men are using it as a shield to go into a woman's bathroom and expose themselves. Which is a complete and utter BS assertion and argument/reason to disparage Trans people. You are also cherry picking your argument around anti Trans by narrowing it down to Athletics, only because you have a personal agenda on it regarding your daughter. I get that need of parental protection, but you seem to have lost all empathy in the matter. You, like most everyone else on this board have family and we all care about them.

 

[Herdfan]

You are trying to make some sort of assertion that men are using it as a shield to go into a woman's bathroom and expose themselves. Which is a complete and utter BS assertion and argument/reason to disparage Trans people. You are also cherry picking your argument around anti Trans by narrowing it down to Athletics, only because you have a personal agenda on it regarding your daughter. I get that need of parental protection, but you seem to have lost all empathy in the matter. You, like most everyone else on this board have family and we all care about them.

Maybe you need to read some of the comments from the women on the Penn swim team. Thomas would walk around the locker room completely nude.

Here is a story:

Lia Thomas 'dropped her pants' and exposed 'male genitalia'

Riley Gaines, 23, claimed female swimmers were not 'forewarned beforehand that we would be sharing a locker room with Lia.' Gaines is asking the NCAA for separate locker rooms for transgender athletes.

www.dailymail.co.uk

But I understand you may be skeptical of the source, but let me ask a different question. Assume that it is true, would you be OK with that?

 

[rdrr]

Maybe you need to read some of the comments from the women on the Penn swim team. Thomas would walk around the locker room completely nude.

Here is a story:

Lia Thomas 'dropped her pants' and exposed 'male genitalia'

Riley Gaines, 23, claimed female swimmers were not 'forewarned beforehand that we would be sharing a locker room with Lia.' Gaines is asking the NCAA for separate locker rooms for transgender athletes.

www.dailymail.co.uk

But I understand you may be skeptical of the source, but let me ask a different question. Assume that it is true, would you be OK with that?

Not playing your game. Again, you are making your narrow assertion from a general category. All because you have your axe to grind on a subject that affects you at a personal level.

 

[Herdfan]

Not playing your game. Again, you are making your narrow assertion from a general category. All because you have your axe to grind on a subject that affects you at a personal level.

Not a game. It is one thing to be for something in the abstract. But quite another when you have to see just how it affects other people.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Not a game. It is one thing to be for something in the abstract. But quite another when you have to see just how it affects other people.

Honestly I think a lot of the outrage comes down to parental laziness and not wanting to deal with anything that requires them to have emotional intelligence and maturity. At best they figure they may need to do the straight people sex talk at some point but many don’t even bother to do that.

On this specific situation I fail to see exactly what the damage done is, both in the moment and long term.

 

[Herdfan]

On this specific situation I fail to see exactly what the damage done is, both in the moment and long term.

If it were little kids, or even young teens, you are probably correct.

But when you get to the college level, or even elite HS, if you have trained extremely hard your entire life for something and see it taken away because someone switched genders and has a patently unfair advantage, it could be demoralizing.

And on top of it, the girls had to change and shower in front of a biological male in the locker room. That is wrong on many levels.

 

[Eric]

Honestly I think a lot of the outrage comes down to parental laziness and not wanting to deal with anything that requires them to have emotional intelligence and maturity. At best they figure they may need to do the straight people sex talk at some point but many don’t even bother to do that.

On this specific situation I fail to see exactly what the damage done is, both in the moment and long term.

Every parent is different but I think sheltering them throughout their teenage years and then sending them out into the real world is a bad idea all around, in many ways it's unfair.

It's a Conservative mindset that you see a lot, from what I've witnessed they nearly force their political standards on them rather than simply letting them make their own choice either way. The reality is it's unlikely anyone is showing their dongs in girls locker rooms and while there may be an exception here or there it's certainly not commonplace, they just want to politicize it.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Every parent is different but I think sheltering them throughout their teenage years and then sending them out into the real world is a bad idea all around, in many ways it's unfair.

It's a Conservative mindset that you see a lot, from what I've witnessed they nearly force their political standards on them rather than simply letting them make their own choice either way. The reality is it's unlikely anyone is showing their dongs in girls locker rooms and while there may be an exception here or there it's certainly not commonplace, they just want to politicize it.

There are probably more perverts who peep and install cameras where they shouldn’t who get caught each year than there will be trans people creating issues in locker rooms or bathrooms.

There are probably more people of the same sex creating issues in locker rooms and bathrooms than there are trans people causing issues. Stuff unrelated to gender or sexuality - crap like hazing or other abuse.

It’s a stupid issue that - like gay marriage - they will be forced into dealing with. They just slow down progress for things most people won’t really even care about in time. How has gay marriage being legalized impacted your life and that of those around you? Unless you benefited from being able to get married, I’d imagine not a lot.

This is going to go the same way.

 

[Cmaier]

Every parent is different but I think sheltering them throughout their teenage years and then sending them out into the real world is a bad idea all around, in many ways it's unfair.

It's a Conservative mindset that you see a lot, from what I've witnessed they nearly force their political standards on them rather than simply letting them make their own choice either way. The reality is it's unlikely anyone is showing their dongs in girls locker rooms and while there may be an exception here or there it's certainly not commonplace, they just want to politicize it.

Conservatives project. They like to expose their dongs, so they assume everyone else does too.

 

[Herdfan]

The reality is it's unlikely anyone is showing their dongs in girls locker rooms and while there may be an exception here or there it's certainly not commonplace, they just want to politicize it.

Ok, let's just say it was all made up (it wasn't). There was still a bio male in a women's locker room while they were changing.

If you are OK with that, then let's just completely do away with gendered bathrooms & locker rooms.

Transgender swimmer Lia Thomas' teammates 'uncomfortable' sharing locker room with her: Report

"The school was so focused on making sure Lia was OK ... that they didn't even think about the rest of us," one swimmer said

torontosun.com

https://www.news.com.au/sport/olympics/swimming/outrage-as-swimmer-left-in-tears-over-transgender-locker-room/news-story/7831792c41e34dc6d27fa3a4b71ee9cb

Lia Thomas Teammate: Situation is 'Unfair' and NCAA is 'Discriminating Against Cisgender Women'; Locker Room Discomfort

Lia Thomas Teammate: Situation is 'Unfair' and NCAA is 'Discriminating Against Cisgender Women. Penn teammate speaks out in interview.

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com

But saying it doesn't happen is just a way to not take a position. Not coming after you as you did previously say you would be OK with a wife or daughter in that situation. But what do they say? Would they be OK with it. And it is not just them seeing his junk, but him being able to watch them change as well.

If you have never been around swimmers, you don't know just how hard it is to put on tech suit. Sometimes it takes 2 people. So there is no going into a stall and putting one on. No one seems to give a about the other females and how they feel. It is not all FoxNews hate.

Remember, there were no books depicting homosexual acts in middle school libraries. So that warning I got for posting one wasn't real either.

 

[dada_dave]

Ok, let's just say it was all made up (it wasn't). There was still a bio male in a women's locker room while they were changing.

If you are OK with that, then let's just completely do away with gendered bathrooms & locker rooms.

Transgender swimmer Lia Thomas' teammates 'uncomfortable' sharing locker room with her: Report

"The school was so focused on making sure Lia was OK ... that they didn't even think about the rest of us," one swimmer said

torontosun.com

https://www.news.com.au/sport/olympics/swimming/outrage-as-swimmer-left-in-tears-over-transgender-locker-room/news-story/7831792c41e34dc6d27fa3a4b71ee9cb

Lia Thomas Teammate: Situation is 'Unfair' and NCAA is 'Discriminating Against Cisgender Women'; Locker Room Discomfort

Lia Thomas Teammate: Situation is 'Unfair' and NCAA is 'Discriminating Against Cisgender Women. Penn teammate speaks out in interview.

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com

But saying it doesn't happen is just a way to not take a position. Not coming after you as you did previously say you would be OK with a wife or daughter in that situation. But what do they say? Would they be OK with it. And it is not just them seeing his junk, but him being able to watch them change as well.

If you have never been around swimmers, you don't know just how hard it is to put on tech suit. Sometimes it takes 2 people. So there is no going into a stall and putting one on. No one seems to give a about the other females and how they feel. It is not all FoxNews hate.

Remember, there were no books depicting homosexual acts in middle school libraries. So that warning I got for posting one wasn't real either.

Wow ...

And I thought it was just transgender's competing in sports for you and transgender being "cool" (jesus fucking christ)

Now its bathrooms and locker rooms and homosexuality in middle school book libraries.

As I said earlier ... motte and fucking bailey.

 

[Eric]

Ok, let's just say it was all made up (it wasn't). There was still a bio male in a women's locker room while they were changing.

If you are OK with that, then let's just completely do away with gendered bathrooms & locker rooms.

Transgender swimmer Lia Thomas' teammates 'uncomfortable' sharing locker room with her: Report

"The school was so focused on making sure Lia was OK ... that they didn't even think about the rest of us," one swimmer said

torontosun.com

https://www.news.com.au/sport/olympics/swimming/outrage-as-swimmer-left-in-tears-over-transgender-locker-room/news-story/7831792c41e34dc6d27fa3a4b71ee9cb

Lia Thomas Teammate: Situation is 'Unfair' and NCAA is 'Discriminating Against Cisgender Women'; Locker Room Discomfort

Lia Thomas Teammate: Situation is 'Unfair' and NCAA is 'Discriminating Against Cisgender Women. Penn teammate speaks out in interview.

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com

But saying it doesn't happen is just a way to not take a position. Not coming after you as you did previously say you would be OK with a wife or daughter in that situation. But what do they say? Would they be OK with it. And it is not just them seeing his junk, but him being able to watch them change as well.

If you have never been around swimmers, you don't know just how hard it is to put on tech suit. Sometimes it takes 2 people. So there is no going into a stall and putting one on. No one seems to give a about the other females and how they feel. It is not all FoxNews hate.

Remember, there were no books depicting homosexual acts in middle school libraries. So that warning I got for posting one wasn't real either.

Well, I don't think solely relying on schools to teach our children right from wrong is ever a good approach, what we as parents teach them goes a long way. I'm of the approach that we guide them in the right direction but let them learn from real social situations rather than shelter them. Not to say anyone else's way is wrong, that's just how I see it. If they choose a path that I don't believe in it's still their right and I always try to respect that.

We don't hear much about trans people in women's locker rooms dressing down, not to say that's not happening in your daughter's case but I don't think playing moral police is the way. If you're that offended maybe pull her out of the situation? At the same time I'm guessing those who are uncomfortable around it can make their own decisions on how (or whether) to participate during shower time.

 

[Herdfan]

I guess for me, if we are going to allow biological males to compete as women, why even keep a separate category?



Too bad their watches aren't my style or I would buy one.