UK again tries to force Apple to open a backdoor

Cmaier

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Having given up on trying to force Apple to provide access to encrypted users’ data, no matter what country the users live in, the evil British are back at it, trying to force Apple to provide a back door for data belonging to UK citizens.

I still expect Apple to refuse. Aside from the technical issues involved in creating such a backdoor, the slippery slope would be too dangerous. More likely they just disable all encryption in the UK and tell customers “your government won’t allow you to keep your data safe. Sorry you don’t live in a free society.”
 

Having given up on trying to force Apple to provide access to encrypted users’ data, no matter what country the users live in, the evil British are back at it, trying to force Apple to provide a back door for data belonging to UK citizens.

I still expect Apple to refuse. Aside from the technical issues involved in creating such a backdoor, the slippery slope would be too dangerous. More likely they just disable all encryption in the UK and tell customers “your government won’t allow you to keep your data safe. Sorry you don’t live in a free society.”
And this is one of the biggest reasons I trust Apple from a security perspective, they hold their ground. If you want to go rooting through your citizens personal data then get them on an Android device.
 
What a bunch of sneaky blokes and birds the Brits must be. My data would be so boring.

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Unfortunately Apple has shown it can be bent under pressure (did the same thing to a similar app in Hong Kong). Maybe the UK isn’t big enough to do it on this particular topic, but they won’t be the only ones interested in this. Apple fought for user privacy in the US previously, but would they do so under the current authoritarian regime which is willing to go much further to get what it wants? Right now the US government’s official position is that backdoors to encryption are bad, but that could easily change.
 
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Unfortunately Apple has shown it can be bent under pressure (did the same thing to a similar app in Hong Kong). Maybe the UK isn’t big enough to do it on this particular topic, but they won’t be the only ones interested in this. Apple fought for user privacy in the US previously, but would they do so under the current authoritarian regime which is willing to go much further to get what it wants? Right now the US government’s official position is that backdoors to encryption are bad, but that could easily change.
Huge difference between removing an app (which, btw, apparently had some privacy flaws) and undermining their entire privacy model.
 
Huge difference between removing an app (which, btw, apparently had some privacy flaws) and undermining their entire privacy model.
Sure (btw if so that’s not why it was removed) but then it’s just a matter of pressure and Apple has shown they’ll bend. That invites more pressure.
 
Sure (btw if so that’s not why it was removed) but then it’s just a matter of pressure and Apple has shown they’ll bend. That invites more pressure.
they’ve been clear on the line they won’t cross, and they’ve never crossed it.
 
they’ve been clear on the line they won’t cross, and they’ve never crossed it.
Perhaps, but this was a pretty major line, especially in light of the Chicago ICE raid, and sending a signal like this to the Trump regime will invite more pressure for whatever else they can get from Apple. So far the Trump regime doesn’t seem interested in US citizens private Apple data. So far.
 
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Perhaps, but this was a pretty major line, especially in light of the Chicago ICE raid, and sending a signal like this to the Trump regime will invite more pressure for whatever else they can get from Apple. So far the Trump regime doesn’t seem interested in US citizens private Apple data. So far.
i don’t think it’s a major line. First, apparently the app isn’t much used by anyone. Second, the app was already sus for several reasons (privacy problems, obvious potential to result in violence, etc.). Third, they’ve *always*, since the start of the app store, removed and/or rejected apps for breaking the law, coming close to breaking the law, being the sort of thing Apple doesn’t want to be associated with, etc. Both in the U.S. and around the world. This is nothing new.

They’ve never claimed they will stand up to dictators or support your favorite political party - they’ve always said they would obey local laws, etc. even when they disagree with them.

What they have always refused to do, however, is to intentionally undermine their user’s privacy. This has meant that they have had to do things like disable features in some countries and explain to users that they can’t have the feature because if they provided it then they’d have to give the government access. It has also meant they’ve had to wage legal fights to prevent things like enforced backdoors, special OS versions that break encryption for law enforcement, etc. They’ve done this time and again. And that’s the big difference here.
 
i don’t think it’s a major line. First, apparently the app isn’t much used by anyone. Second, the app was already sus for several reasons (privacy problems, obvious potential to result in violence, etc.). Third, they’ve *always*, since the start of the app store, removed and/or rejected apps for breaking the law, coming close to breaking the law, being the sort of thing Apple doesn’t want to be associated with, etc. Both in the U.S. and around the world. This is nothing new.

They’ve never claimed they will stand up to dictators or support your favorite political party - they’ve always said they would obey local laws, etc. even when they disagree with them.

What they have always refused to do, however, is to intentionally undermine their user’s privacy. This has meant that they have had to do things like disable features in some countries and explain to users that they can’t have the feature because if they provided it then they’d have to give the government access. It has also meant they’ve had to wage legal fights to prevent things like enforced backdoors, special OS versions that break encryption for law enforcement, etc. They’ve done this time and again. And that’s the big difference here.
The app was not breaking any laws and most of the rest, even if accurate, is frankly irrelevant. Apple did nothing until the US government applied pressure to do so and removing an app at the behest of the US government is absolutely a line. Yes Apple has done similar favors for other autocratic governments. I pointed that out myself. I’m under no illusion about that. The reason we see creeping demands like the one in the UK is precisely because of that.

For instance, should Trump demand backdoor keys, your proposed solution, simply dropping encryption would equally suit the regime just fine. Do you think Trump world actually understands or cares about the implications? And the US government has a lot more levers to push than the UK one. Apple is a US company, even China has more limited to tools against Apple than our own government - in fact that it is a major US company is part of that.

I’m not saying Apple wouldn’t fight. But the trouble with Apple’s stance is that it invites autocratic control and there’s nothing such people like more than to turn someone who in most circumstances should be more powerful than they into a supplicant. With such people you want to defend a moat very far away from your keep. Because if you don’t you’ll find yourself fighting at the keep anyway and with a lot fewer tools to defend yourself. With Apple the Trump regime started with promises of investments and personal gifts to dear leader. They’ve now moved to removing content that they don’t like. This is unlikely to be the last “request”.

The good news is that, for now, fighting Trump generally speaking results in winning. Which is why consolidation often requires capitulation first until fighting becomes difficult to impossible. That’s why fighting now is important. Apple doesn’t want to be too late.
 
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I’m not saying Apple wouldn’t fight. But the trouble with Apple’s stance is that it invites autocratic control and there’s nothing such people like more than to turn someone who in most circumstances should be more powerful than they into a supplicant
This is a bit naive. First, the app might be breaking laws. Personally I think it is, though it’s true no court has yet found so. Second, Apple isn’t inviting autocratic control. Autocrats control things. If Apple does business in a country where autocrats are in control, it has little choice but to do the things that the autocrat demands, or to stop doing business there.
 
This is a bit naive. First, the app might be breaking laws. Personally I think it is, though it’s true no court has yet found so. Second, Apple isn’t inviting autocratic control. Autocrats control things. If Apple does business in a country where autocrats are in control, it has little choice but to do the things that the autocrat demands, or to stop doing business there.
Oh I think one of us is being naive and it ain’t me. Is stopping doing business in the US feasible? If not, what are the consequences for Apple's red lines if the US slides into full autocracy where Apple now has "little choice but to do the things that the autocrat demands"?
 
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Without getting into conspiracy theory territory, I hope Apple stands firm but I am concerned. There appears to be a coordinated effort across many countries. The EU planning on “chat control” for example. I don’t know if Apple can resist many countries simultaneously.
 
On a slight tangent. I must admit I have been naive. I genuinely admired the USA constitutional arrangement and government structure for years. Even as a politics student, I thought it among the best and greatly admired it’s separation of powers etc. Especially coming from a country where there is very few of these protections from a powerful executive.

The past few years have been sobering. None of those protections seem to matter in the face of a populist leader with no morals and a fanatical fanbase. I was fooled.
 
lol. No. It’s bad.
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