Update on Arm/Qualcomm lawsuit

[Cmaier]

Seems to me that qualcomm, which allegedly demands royalties based on the sale price of finished products that include its chips, is complaining because Arm is making noises about refusing to license chipmakers and only licensing OEMs.

That’s fun.

Arm Changes Business Model – OEM Partners Must Directly License From Arm

No More External GPU, NPU, or ISP’s Allowed In Arm-Based SOCs

www.semianalysis.com

I do have a bunch of thoughts about the legal doctrines of implied licenses and exhaustion, but I‘love keep them to myself.

 

[dada_dave]

Huh ... I dunno. If that's an accurate depiction of ARM's planned business plan, then that doesn't seem like a smart strategy to me and more likely than not to antagonize partners. But then this seems to be coming entirely from Qualcomm's claims and I don't trust Qualcomm either. I may not have thought that the ARM-Nvidia deal was a good idea, but that doesn't make me think Qualcomm were particularly heroic for opposing it or are any beacon of financial rectitude ... quite the opposite as you pointed out.

 

[Cmaier]

Huh ... I dunno. If that's an accurate depiction of ARM's planned business plan, then that doesn't seem like a smart strategy to me and more likely than not to antagonize partners. But then this seems to be coming entirely from Qualcomm's claims and I don't trust Qualcomm either. I may not have thought that the ARM-Nvidia deal was a good idea, but that doesn't make me think Qualcomm were particularly heroic for opposing it or are any beacon of financial rectitude ... quite the opposite as you pointed out.

If true, good news for apple. They wouldn’t be subject to any new calculation of license fees, and they don’t sell their processors to OEMs anyway.

 

[dada_dave]

If true, good news for apple. They wouldn’t be subject to any new calculation of license fees, and they don’t sell their processors to OEMs anyway.

I dunno I read the change was just for the partners buying ARM cores, Apple's ISA license would be a different beast - at the very least they would be almost entirely unaffected by such changes. Of course the rumors are that they have a special deal anyway so who knows?

 

[Cmaier]

I dunno I read the change was just for the partners buying ARM cores, Apple's ISA license would be a different beast - at the very least they would be almost entirely unaffected by such changes. Of course the rumors are that they have a special deal anyway so who knows?

qualcomm doesnt just buy cores, so i read the alleged change as applying to all licensees (other than apple, who undoubtedly has a special deal, as you note)

 

[jbailey]

Some new news on Arm v Qualcomm.

Arm’s Nuclear Option – Qualcomm Must Cancel Next-Generation Products If Arm Succeeds

Some interesting developments. It looks to me like Qualcomm has a serious problem at least in the near term.

Arm has no obligation to support Qualcomm’s further attempts to continue developing unlicensed technology originally developed at Nuvia using Arm’s architecture

This position by Arm could potentially delay the Phoenix core-based chips for the PC, smartphone, base station, automotive, AR, and VR markets. A trial likely takes years—especially given how lengthy the discovery process could be. Even if the court doesn’t grant Arm a temporary injunction, Arm-based chips need to be validated by Arm as being ISA compliant, which Arm claims they have no obligation to do.

A part of Qualcomm’s counter-claim argument was that Arm’s engineering teams continued to help Qualcomm with instruction validation work after the termination of the Nuvia ALA. Qualcomm used this as proof that their continued work on Nuvia core-based products was valid.

Qualcomm agreed in writing with Arm’s position that, even if Arm continued to support the Nuvia team in the interim, Arm’s “assistance does not expressly or impliedly waive any of Arm’s rights.”
Click to expand...

Arm’s statement here makes this entire argument defunct. Even though Arm provided weekly meetings with Qualcomm for validating the Phoenix core, there was a written agreement with Qualcomm about Arm’s position on the topic.

It looks to me like they would need intervention by a judge to force Arm to get a Nuvia SoC validated. Qualcomm might have a case based on their own ALA license but that will have to be decided by a jury which will take years. Until then, Arm is refusing to let Qualcomm validate their SoCs. I hope that Qualcomm's RISC-V work is progressing quickly.