Which will voters remember more in 2024?

[SuperMatt]

It's not a contradiction. The news media only gives the camera and mic to the extreme nutters. The same sources that are screaming it’s all about CRT, and nothing other than CRT, are the same networks saying nobody wants expanded government services because their main concern in life is the price tag.

You could have no feelings about CRT one way or the other, but have personal experience with your kids taken out of school long-term and see a Democrat governor being the reason for it.

I wasn’t talking about the media. I was referring to the endless anti-CRT ads I saw from Youngkin. That’s coming straight from his campaign. I didn’t see any ads about virtual classrooms. Maybe it was an issue that Youngkin’s campaign didn’t pick up on?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I wasn’t talking about the media. I was referring to the endless anti-CRT ads I saw from Youngkin. That’s coming straight from his campaign. I didn’t see any ads about virtual classrooms. Maybe it was an issue that Youngkin’s campaign didn’t pick up on?

Let’s say a Democrat candidate is running who you agree with on climate change, police reform, and social safety nets, but then decides to run a ton of ads supporting Satanists as a respected religious group because they know it will piss off the Evangelicals but attract atheists. He wins and suddenly everybody who voted for him is a Satanist.

 

[SuperMatt]

Let’s say a Democrat candidate is running who you agree with on climate change, police reform, and social safety nets, but then decides to run a ton of ads supporting Satanists as a respected religious group because they know it will piss off the Evangelicals but attract atheists. He wins and suddenly everybody who voted for him is a Satanist.

Is your argument the following?

Voters were more motivated by COVID-19 school closures than by CRT.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Is your argument the following?

Voters were more motivated by COVID-19 school closures than by CRT.

Some voters, yes. There could also be other reasons. Just saying I didn't think of the school closure thing before.

I think we also need to remember these were tight local races and also toss in a lot of people don't bother to vote. So usually at best the winner probably represents like 25% of the population.

 

[SuperMatt]

Some voters, yes. There could also be other reasons. Just saying I didn't think of the school closure thing before.

I think we also need to remember these were tight local races and also toss in a lot of people don't bother to vote. So usually at best the winner probably represents like 25% of the population.

Virginia required schools to re-open for in-person learning in 2021-22. Schools were literally open for in-person learning months before Election Day.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/support/health_medical/office/covid-19-faq-reopening.shtml

Considering everybody’s kids in Virginia have been back in school since September, I fail to see how that was a reason for a vote.

Joe Walsh is just plain wrong on this, and clearly was just spitballing without looking into the most basic of facts.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Virginia required schools to re-open for in-person learning in 2021-22. Schools were literally open for in-person learning months before Election Day.

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/support/health_medical/office/covid-19-faq-reopening.shtml

Considering everybody’s kids in Virginia have been back in school since September, I fail to see how that was a reason for a vote.

Joe Walsh is just plain wrong on this, and clearly was just spitballing without looking into the most basic of facts.

Are you suggesting that voters never vote based on something that happened prior to 2 months ago? If that’s true then that’s great news for Trump with his fresh start.

You might actually agree with something else that Joe said that I don’t agree with, as has been well covered on this forum. He thinks Democrats should fight even harder for social justice issues and believes most of the country agrees with Democrats on these issues. The problem is one side is saying things like transgender rights is all about endorsing bathroom rapes and the counter to that is the other side largely remaining quiet because they don’t even want to dignify that lunacy with a response. Same thing with CRT. Unfortunately there are too many people who need a better counter argument than “that’s preposterous”.

I realize there are people on the left giving better explanations, but they are getting way drowned out by the right’s messaging.

 

[SuperMatt]

Are you suggesting that voters never vote based on something that happened prior to 2 months ago? If that’s true then that’s great news for Trump with his fresh start..

They voted for Youngkin because of a past problem that already ended? And the only evidence for that theory is the rambling of Joe Walsh?

You’re welcome to your theory, but I see zero evidence that voters are holding a grudge against Democrats for past school closures. Feel free to provide some evidence such as a question from an exit poll or something, but something based only upon the musings of a Tea Partier is not going to sway me.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

They voted for Youngkin because of a past problem that already ended? And the only evidence for that theory is the rambling of Joe Walsh?

You’re welcome to your theory, but I see zero evidence that voters are holding a grudge against Democrats for past school closures. Feel free to provide some evidence such as a question from an exit poll or something, but something based only upon the musings of a Tea Partier is not going to sway me.

So it's your belief that he won entirely based on CRT propaganda?

And again, sticking to your logic, you think nobody would vote against Trump in 2024 based on his past presidency? That too, already ended.

 

[SuperMatt]

So it's your belief that he won entirely based on CRT propaganda?

And again, sticking to your logic, you think nobody would vote against Trump in 2024 based on his past presidency? That too, already ended.

I didn’t say that. I challenged your claim based on the musings of Joe Walsh.

You made a claim that people voted a certain way for a certain reason. If you have any evidence that COVID-related school shutdowns were a factor in the race, I’d be interested in seeing it.

 

[Herdfan]

Feel free to provide some evidence such as a question from an exit poll or something, but something based only upon the musings of a Tea Partier is not going to sway me.

School closures haunt Democrats as frustrated parents cast their votes

In Virginia, the anger over education culminated last Tuesday with Republican gubernatorial candidate Glenn Youngkin’s decisive victory in the increasingly blue state.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I didn’t say that. I challenged your claim based on the musings of Joe Walsh.

You made a claim that people voted a certain way for a certain reason. If you have any evidence that COVID-related school shutdowns were a factor in the race, I’d be interested in seeing it.

Joe didn't say that's the only reason. It's just one of many possibilities. Maybe I shouldn't have even mentioned Joe Walsh because that's not even the most relevant part. But I do bring him up on here because he was a tea party congressman who is now constantly apologizing for his part in bringing us Trump and what the Republican party has become. So I think he has a unique perspective. Also he doesn't parrot what Fox News and the likes report so much as let his listeners know what Fox is telling people, not very different from how we post articles on this forum with some kind of "check out this bullshit" clause.

As a resident of CA I know Republicans here are going to beat Newsom's Covid response into the for at least the next couple years, if not the next decade. If it no longer becomes relevant to attack him directly they'll pivot to a more general "This is what Democrats do. Take away your freedom." I'm all for vaccines and precautions, but I think Newsom signed something this week extending mask mandates into March. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but that's a bit much. You don't need to be a right wing extremist to possibly have an issue with that.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

School closures haunt Democrats as frustrated parents cast their votes

In Virginia, the anger over education culminated last Tuesday with Republican gubernatorial candidate Glenn Youngkin’s decisive victory in the increasingly blue state.

news.yahoo.com

But that's from the white supremacist propaganda machine that is Yahoo!

 

[SuperMatt]

School closures haunt Democrats as frustrated parents cast their votes

In Virginia, the anger over education culminated last Tuesday with Republican gubernatorial candidate Glenn Youngkin’s decisive victory in the increasingly blue state.

news.yahoo.com

Thanks for the link. Although no direct evidence is offered, the past school closings are put forward as a possible reason by this analyst. If I think about it, there’s no real way to prove why people voted a certain way, so insisting on evidence was probably pointless on my part.

A lot of people around northern VA think it was McAuliffe’s debate performance where he said “parents shouldn’t decide what gets taught in schools” - which, although technically true, was a really dumb thing to say in the debate.

Here’s another story from somebody that thinks COVID fatigue is a possible reason as well.

Why education was a top voter priority this election

This week's election results show education issues foremost in the minds of many voters, and suggest many parents may be seeking a course correction after 18 months of disruptions.

www.npr.org

It’s interesting that Republicans have been refusing the vaccine, but are the most angry about things not re-opening. They don’t realize that if they just got their shots, everything could re-open and we wouldn’t need to wear masks, right?

 

[ronntaylor]

A lot of people around northern VA think it was McAuliffe’s debate performance where he said “parents shouldn’t decide what gets taught in schools” - which, although technically true, was a really dumb thing to say in the debate.

I was down in Virginia during that debate. When that clip played on the news I said out loud "Is this motherfucker trying to lose!!" Turns out he was. When he doubled-down and took nearly two weeks to respond it was too late. He was already considered aloof, arrogant and out-of-touch. That just confirmed it for many.

Youngkin's ads repeating that phrase played nonstop. I watched the local news. They appeared during every commercial break. I watched Jeopardy! & Wheel of Fortune. It played during every commercial break. Hell, sometimes it would play twice during the same commercial break; often sandwiching another anti-Democrat ad.

More progressive candidates shot themselves in the foot by not coalescing around a campaign to take out McAuliffe months before he officially entered the race. They were too focused on attacking each other. Much more talk than action. The chief idiot was the Black Lt. Governor that was hurt by sexual assault allegations during the Governor's Blackface Backlash Apology Tour. And let's not forget the AG's "Don't You Forget About Me!" Blackface history. What a bunch of Maroons.

 

[SuperMatt]

I was down in Virginia during that debate. When that clip played on the news I said out loud "Is this motherfucker trying to lose!!" Turns out he was. When he doubled-down and took nearly two weeks to respond it was too late. He was already considered aloof, arrogant and out-of-touch. That just confirmed it for many.

Youngkin's ads repeating that phrase played nonstop. I watched the local news. They appeared during every commercial break. I watched Jeopardy! & Wheel of Fortune. It played during every commercial break. Hell, sometimes it would play twice during the same commercial break; often sandwiching another anti-Democrat ad.

More progressive candidates shot themselves in the foot by not coalescing around a campaign to take out McAuliffe months before he officially entered the race. They were too focused on attacking each other. Much more talk than action. The chief idiot was the Black Lt. Governor that was hurt by sexual assault allegations during the Governor's Blackface Backlash Apology Tour. And let's not forget the AG's "Don't You Forget About Me!" Blackface history. What a bunch of Maroons.

To me, this is a very obvious reason for his loss, and those constant ads (I saw them all the time too) prove that Youngkin’s campaign thought that too.

I am suspicious when right-wing figures come up with other explanations that conveniently advance their own agenda. Just like the “people voted for Youngkin because Biden lied during his campaign and is ruling like an extreme progressive now” silliness. Of course, when pressed on what far-left policies he’s put into place… crickets. Heck, he hasn’t even managed to pass his moderate agenda that he ran on during the campaign yet. So I think: what is the agenda of the person making the analysis? For a right-winger, they want to paint even moderate policies of Biden as “progressive” and blame them for his unpopularity, because they want far-right policies instead. If Dems are scared that passing even moderate policies will make them unpopular, they won’t even try. Meanwhile, polls show Biden’s campaign goals were widely popular, which probably contributed to him winning.

So I’m going to believe my eyes instead of their analysis, especially when such analysis conveniently aligns with their agenda… same for left-wing analysts.

 

[Herdfan]

To me, this is a very obvious reason for his loss, and those constant ads (I saw them all the time too) prove that Youngkin’s campaign thought that too.

I am suspicious when right-wing figures come up with other explanations that conveniently advance their own agenda. Just like the “people voted for Youngkin because Biden lied during his campaign and is ruling like an extreme progressive now” silliness. Of course, when pressed on what far-left policies he’s put into place… crickets. Heck, he hasn’t even managed to pass his moderate agenda that he ran on during the campaign yet.

While correct that he hasn't managed to pass much of his agenda through Congress, he has done some things via EO that conservatives certainly don't like. So he is acting like a progressive in some ways.

 

[SuperMatt]

While correct that he hasn't managed to pass much of his agenda through Congress, he has done some things via EO that conservatives certainly don't like. So he is acting like a progressive in some ways.

For example?

 

[Herdfan]

For example?

Less border enforcement than Trump for one.

Cancellation of the Keystone XL Pipeline & rejoining the Paris Climate Accord are a few.

 

[SuperMatt]

Less border enforcement than Trump for one.

Cancellation of the Keystone XL Pipeline & rejoining the Paris Climate Accord are a few.

I wrote above that my problem was with the characterization: “Biden ran as a moderate but is governing as a progressive.”

The items mentioned here are #1: not progressive at all and #2: Things he specifically said he would do in the campaign.

So again, the GOP rhetoric that Biden’s campaign was a bait-and-switch is an outright lie.

Signing onto the Paris accords is not progressive at all. Do you know the only countries that did NOT sign it? Iran, Eritrea, Libya, and Yemen. I guess every other country on the planet is progressive other than these ones? Get real, wake up and smell the coffee.

Even Republicans are accepting of the fact that global warming is happening now. Only the most extreme right-wingers still deny it. It is NOT progressive to participate in climate agreements that everybody except Iran and its ilk are a part of.

If this is considered progressive, then the GOP is so far right that I’m not surprised in the slightest that they all got behind the authoritarian Trump.

And the “less border enforcement” statement - I’m sorry what does that mean? It’s very nebulous. If you mean he stopped stealing babies from their mothers, then yeah he’s not evil like Trump was on that issue. Isn’t that a good thing?

 

[ronntaylor]

To me, this is a very obvious reason for his loss, and those constant ads (I saw them all the time too) prove that Youngkin’s campaign thought that too.

I am suspicious when right-wing figures come up with other explanations that conveniently advance their own agenda. Just like the “people voted for Youngkin because Biden lied during his campaign and is ruling like an extreme progressive now” silliness.

I remember on election night all the talking heads/"analysts" were saying that the anti-CRT hysteria wasn't the reason for Youngkin's win. Despite the fact that on his own website his listed priorities were #1. Education with #2 Banning CRT, which is an extension of #1.

All the Doom & Gloom calls for Dems overlooks that national results. Dems ultimately won NJ. Doesn't matter if the Republican candidate was closer than expected. The Dem governor is the 1st repeater for the office in nearly 40 years. Doesn't matter if a racist, homophobic, anti-muslim A-hole beat the sitting Senate Prez (D), as he was a blue-dog A-hole that shat on more progressive legislation that may now have a chance of passing during Murphy's 2nd term.

Progressives did well all over the country. From Boston, to Cleveland and Pittsburg. In place small, medium-sized and large. Even the upcoming redistricting won't be as bad with Dems probably picking up seats in NYS, PA, NC and elsewhere. And the Dems will have a greater chance of picking up seats in the Senate with the GQP having to defend much more seats, with at least a couple open seats that Dems are very likely to flip (NC, PA+).

With the Infrastructure bill passed (one of the largest in the nation's history) and other legislation still being parsed out, Dems are poised to have something to show voters next year. More than many admins could say for less than a year in office.