Your experience with H1B1 engineers

Chew Toy McCoy

Pleb
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Although I live in Silicon Valley I am not an engineer and my past jobs for tech companies all fall under the long ago outsourced to outside the country variety, but I'm sure there are engineers on here who can weigh in.

From what I've heard, and this is no reflection on them as individuals, but when they get here they are not in fact highly skilled. They have some knowledge but the bulk of becoming highly skilled happens on the job learning from those who already are. Of course they get paid substantially less than Americans for this opportunity. Why not have this same arrangement with Americans? Because Americans will start being demanding and have expectations while H1B1 employees won't for fear of getting fired and kicked out of the country.

That's what I am getting second hand. Any personal experiences or thoughts you want to share?
 
Although I live in Silicon Valley I am not an engineer and my past jobs for tech companies all fall under the long ago outsourced to outside the country variety, but I'm sure there are engineers on here who can weigh in.

From what I've heard, and this is no reflection on them as individuals, but when they get here they are not in fact highly skilled. They have some knowledge but the bulk of becoming highly skilled happens on the job learning from those who already are. Of course they get paid substantially less than Americans for this opportunity. Why not have this same arrangement with Americans? Because Americans will start being demanding and have expectations while H1B1 employees won't for fear of getting fired and kicked out of the country.

That's what I am getting second hand. Any personal experiences or thoughts you want to share?
I had a lot of experience working with H1B1 co-workers. They all were capable of doing the job, though I don’t know if they got the skills before coming here or not. My complaint is that there was no shortage of equally or more skilled citizens who could do the same jobs. I assume the H1B1 folks were paid less than the citizens we didn’t hire.
 
I've spent much of the last 10 years of my IT career working with and hiring a lot of H-1B Visa holders. The first thing to know is they're way cheaper, as you mention, and because of that it's attractive to employers.

It's also a double edged sword, I'll never forget this scene in Office Space because it is so spot on. BTW I'm the guy the two Bob's are talking to here, as a manager and senior consultant it was often my job to architect a solution with the client which I would then take back to the dev team.
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What's key to note here is while pricing for offshore or H-1B may be cheaper, you must also have those with real experience leading them and closely guiding them through every step of a project. In my experience every company I've ever worked for has struggled with this challenge, they may be good at tech and building your solution, but cannot navigate the complexities of a project, communication, understanding requirements, etc. In fact in most cases you would never put one of these engineers in front of a client.

As for American jobs, I've interviewed hundreds of candidates over the years and by and large have had to sacrifice experienced Americans over cheaper offshore or H-1B resources at the instructions of my employer, particularly due to lower salary ranges. On average you can get the these resources for about 1/3 of the cost of hiring an American.

TLDR
In my experience, yes, they're taking high quality good paying American jobs. At the same time the company incurs additional expenditures to make up for the lack of experience in the sector and in many cases it's a wash.
 
The 10 person chip design company I worked for in the past hired a couple of H1B1 engineers. They were very smart and hard workers who fit in well with other employees just fine. I don't know for sure, but believe they were paid the going Silicon Valley rate for their experience.
 
But I wonder did they arrive here that skilled or did they get that skilled as a result of already working here for some years. I'm not suggesting they all arrive here a peg above useless, but I also wouldn't believe they all get here highly skilled.
 
But I wonder did they arrive here that skilled or did they get that skilled as a result of already working here for some years. I'm not suggesting they all arrive here a peg above useless, but I also wouldn't believe they all get here highly skilled.

For us, being a very small company and having our own in-house developed tools and libraries, and using hand layout, even US degreed engineers had a learning process to go through. It took me a month or so to get with the system to start being productive. I don't recollect that being any longer for the 2-3 H1B1 degreed engineers we had. Actually, I suspect they came up to speed faster because they were super motivated and could often be found in their office after hours learning.
 
But I wonder did they arrive here that skilled or did they get that skilled as a result of already working here for some years. I'm not suggesting they all arrive here a peg above useless, but I also wouldn't believe they all get here highly skilled.
Many are already skilled, they're just way cheaper to hire. Hiring H-1B essentially undercuts American workers who are just as much (if not more) qualified. In other words it's cheap labor. The only difference between this discussion and that of immigrant farm workers is Americans aren't willing to do farm work. Our priorities on this are misplaced IMO.
 
In my neck of the woods, there's the H1Bs we bring in as full time employees, and the H1Bs our vendor companies (i.e. outsourced work) bring in to fill roles for us.

The H1Bs we bring in as full time employees are meeting our normal hiring criteria. In some cases, they were hired on a different campus, and brought to work with us via an H1B transfer rather than hire. Company policy is that if you are on a particular pay grade, you get paid based on which campus you work out of. So the cheaper labor is on those other campuses, and H1B transfers tend to be higher end performers the company wants to keep around by allowing some mobility between campuses.

For the vendors, this is a bit different. H1Bs here are people the vendor company (HCL, Infosys, Mindtree, Tata) wants in our time zone to "assist the client during working hours". So folks that manage teams of individual employees for a client, and support the client when they have specific issues that need to be escalated. Instead of hiring those local, they tend to import employees from the primary campus. With the H1B restrictions in more recent years, they've been more willing to hire local employees for the folks that do work for the client directly, but they're expecting Indian work culture which can create problems, and so many of the people doing the actual work are in India, and very few roles are local at all. Classic offshoring.

But this is a larger corporation where labor policies are more strictly enforced internally for the sake of large contracts and being able to work with governments.

For us, being a very small company and having our own in-house developed tools and libraries, and using hand layout, even US degreed engineers had a learning process to go through. It took me a month or so to get with the system to start being productive. I don't recollect that being any longer for the 2-3 H1B1 degreed engineers we had. Actually, I suspect they came up to speed faster because they were super motivated and could often be found in their office after hours learning.

One of the things I've seen is that India has a glut of folks that went into college for engineering roles, but the domestic engineering industries can't absorb them all. So yeah, I can get that there's a lot of skilled, hungry engineers willing to migrate to find something. Especially if it means one of the better H1B positions where they get paid local market rate (like companies are supposed to be doing), and can use the pay to help family back home. Many of these go on to get their green card.

But when you have companies that are just offshoring mid-level office work, we lose those roles locally, and then the company will import their own labor back into the local economy and depress wages for whomever is left. My partner is one of the few local workers for one of the above vendor companies, and so if she was able to do the work full time at a company rather than an offshoring company, she'd be making 35-50% more and have better PTO and sick leave. *sigh*

The other problem I think is hiring criteria is increasingly automated and disconnected from roles, and we're seeing the junior roles available shrink, meaning fewer folks even get in the door than in the past. "We need to make data driven decisions" is both smart, and a plague on modern companies that do a lot of engineering, because it means they overlook many people they shouldn't, and then complain that they can't hire locally.
 
What companies will do is make the salary so low that only H-1B will take it. If you've been in the IT industry for several years and lose your job and 6 figure salary, you'll be competing against every H-1B worker willing to work for $40K less per year. It was disheartening when I had to deal with this as a hiring manager.

In the end it's designed to make billionaires more billionairey and that's why people like Musk are fighting so hard to keep it.
 
This is exactly how they do it.

And that's what "successful businessmen" do. Trump even tried to comfort his base by saying he also does it and thinks it's great. What a relief it must be to realize you no longer need votes and can just push forward with the kleptocrasy.
 
And that's what "successful businessmen" do. Trump even tried to comfort his base by saying he also does it and thinks it's great. What a relief it must be to realize you no longer need votes and can just push forward with the kleptocrasy.
In Trump's first term I recall him taking a harsh stance against H-1B, it was one of the few things I agreed with him on but in the end it's your investors (donors) who dictate policy. Not just Trump, it happens to all of them and will continue as long as we allow unlimited funds to be poured into elections.
 
The MAGA super hero - Elon Musk says Americans are "too retarded" for skilled jobs.

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"Musk and Ramaswampy have made it abundantly clear that they have nothing but disdain for the American worker."

Correct, but to be honest (and blunt), I am having a hard time not feeling the same way after they voted these morons into power...

I apologize for my elitist take.
 
The MAGA super hero - Elon Musk says Americans are "too retarded" for skilled jobs.

As one of those "skilled workers", and having fought to try to hire good local engineers that were ultimately rejected by management for what amounts to a bad slip of the tongue, he can eat a bag of dicks (and not Dick's).

Some of the best interviewees I've had got rejected over silly things, while the fact that they had really good skills breaking down large problems and identifying hurdles that needed early investigation was just ignored. *sigh*
 
The indentured servant comment is spot on, in consulting firms the way they can sometimes be treated is flat out dehumanizing depending on management, almost like Indian sweatshops. Anytime I had to manage a team for a project I made it a point to treat them all like peers, the way I want to be treated. I've even gotten into heated discussions with management over it. Anyway, Bernie is spot on here.

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"Musk and Ramaswampy have made it abundantly clear that they have nothing but disdain for the American worker."

Correct, but to be honest (and blunt), I am having a hard time not feeling the same way after they voted these morons into power...

I apologize for my elitist take.

I posted elsewhere that some voters who voted for Trump voted for him despite Trump and more for Musk and others in his circle. I highly doubt a lot of those people knew exactly what they voted for but also wasn't expecting them to learn so quickly. I wonder if any of them will blame not doing "there own research" when it comes to being blindsided by their own team.
 
I posted elsewhere that some voters who voted for Trump voted for him despite Trump and more for Musk and others in his circle. I highly doubt a lot of those people knew exactly what they voted for but also wasn't expecting them to learn so quickly. I wonder if any of them will blame not doing "there own research" when it comes to being blindsided by their own team.
It feels like there is a wave of anti-Capitalism growing right now, and that's what it will take to enact any sort of change. My feeling is that people like Musk, Trump and Ramaswamy pumping up the filthy rich while screwing the little guy could be enough to push the movement into something big. However, at the moment the people who democratically elected Trump are going to get exactly what they've asked for and can wallow in it.
 
It feels like there is a wave of anti-Capitalism growing right now, and that's what it will take to enact any sort of change. My feeling is that people like Musk, Trump and Ramaswamy pumping up the filthy rich while screwing the little guy could be enough to push the movement into something big. However, at the moment the people who democratically elected Trump are going to get exactly what they've asked for and can wallow in it.

Heard an interview with Laura Loomer from a few days ago where she sounded like a straight up leftist talking about oligarchs, Musk being the biggest welfare queen in history only embracing MAGA to increase his wealth, and campaign finance reform. Even Nazi Bannon has one thing right, Musk doesn't have the populist anger behind him and is proving himself to be the real worthy target of their anger. This has to seriously freakout the ruling class. People are waking up to the class warfare that this is more than anything and these blatant actions and statements from the top might spark the real revolution that is needed, putting culture wars (often exaggerated to distract) aside and uniting against the real enemy.
 
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