Your experience with H1B1 engineers

[Cmaier]

It feels like there is a wave of anti-Capitalism growing right now, and that's what it will take to enact any sort of change. My feeling is that people like Musk, Trump and Ramaswamy pumping up the filthy rich while screwing the little guy could be enough to push the movement into something big. However, at the moment the people who democratically elected Trump are going to get exactly what they've asked for and can wallow in it.

It used to be that each generation did better than the next. Now, unless you’re a billionaire, this may not be true. Can the average person even dream of being able to afford to buy a house by the time they’re 30?

 

[Citysnaps]

It used to be that each generation did better than the next. Now, unless you’re a billionaire, this may not be true. Can the average person even dream of being able to afford to buy a house by the time they’re 30?

I recall needing to do something rather extraordinary back in my mid 20s in order for that to happen.

Though that was in the San Francisco mid-peninsula area (Redwood City), which from that point southward has always been a tough place to start in real estate due to being more-or-less SV tech-centric. A lot of my friends in the 20s would pair up in order to get their first house. A few years later, once they had some equity, they'd then split up, each having their own home.

I suspect it's MUCH more difficult today.

 

[Nycturne]

It feels like there is a wave of anti-Capitalism growing right now, and that's what it will take to enact any sort of change.

What, you mean trickle down isn't a thing and people are wising up to it? *pikachu face*

Heard an interview with Laura Loomer from a few days ago where she sounded like a straight up leftist talking about oligarchs, Musk being the biggest welfare queen in history only embracing MAGA to increase his wealth, and campaign finance reform. Even Nazi Bannon has one thing right, Musk doesn't have the populist anger behind him and is proving himself to be the real worthy target of their anger. This has to seriously freakout the ruling class. People are waking up to the class warfare that this is more than anything and these blatant actions and statements from the top might spark the real revolution that is needed, putting culture wars (often exaggerated to distract) aside and uniting against the real enemy.

Here's my question: How do you get jokers like Bannon and Stone out of the way so that the people can build something better? The issue is that the people most tapping into that anger at the moment are interested in their own power than righting a wrong. And that's unfortunately how you can take the resentment in a population and basically turn it on itself into authoritarianism.

 

[Nycturne]

It used to be that each generation did better than the next. Now, unless you’re a billionaire, this may not be true. Can the average person even dream of being able to afford to buy a house by the time they’re 30?

What about by the time they are 50? Many elder millennials are in that boat in my area unless they went into tech. Everyone I know from high school and college that owns a house at 40+ would be considered upper class by income.

 

[Yoused]

I am still of the opinion that RE should not be a commodity. If you own a place, you should live there. If you do not live/work there at least nine months of a year, you should not be able to own the place. I would go so far as to make contracts that effect proxy ownership invalid.

 

[Eric]

I am still of the opinion that RE should not be a commodity. If you own a place, you should live there. If you do not live/work there at least nine months of a year, you should not be able to own the place. I would go so far as to make contracts that effect proxy ownership invalid.

A lot of HOAs now require this (purchaser must live in it for 2 years before renting), otherwise you just have investors come in, buy up the properties and then rent them all out. There needs to be broader legislation on this IMO but those with the money own those needed to pass it but California has started to lead the charge on it

 

[Eric]

Bernie FTW

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

No real way to be subtle about this question, but what % of H1B workers in your experience or opinion is white?

 

[Eric]

No real way to be subtle about this question, but what % of H1B workers in your experience or opinion is white?

Zero, it's strictly Indian in the tech field, at least in my experience.

 

[rdrr]

No real way to be subtle about this question, but what % of H1B workers in your experience or opinion is white?

I not sure if they have those stats, but they do track them by country. Not sure that would specify race though. As for personal experience I have a met a Canadian, an Irish, and one Scott that were pale. Not sure if it has made a difference, all of the H1B visa workers were very capable of performing their job.

 

[Cmaier]

No real way to be subtle about this question, but what % of H1B workers in your experience or opinion is white?

I can’t be certain, because I wasn’t always aware of who was H1B, but I think a russian guy I worked with once may have been. Vast majority that I worked with were Indian or Chinese.

 

[rdrr]

I can’t be certain, because I wasn’t always aware of who was H1B, but I think a russian guy I worked with once may have been. Vast majority that I worked with were Indian or Chinese.

Which is on par for the 2023 stats by country for H1B Visa holders.

India 72%
China 12%

 

[Citysnaps]

Vast majority that I worked with were Indian or Chinese.

While we only hired a couple, that was my experience as well when we were interviewing. They were well educated and went through the interview process very well. Though I didn't use my end of interview zinger question: "Can you estimate the number of barbers there are in the US?"

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

My speculation is that they are giving preference to countries where the people are easier to exploit, an upgrade in lifestyle being here at any pay and a cultural obedience to hierarchy and business.

 

[Eric]

My speculation is that they are giving preference to countries where the people are easier to exploit, an upgrade in lifestyle being here at any pay and a cultural obedience to hierarchy and business.

The exploitation I've witnessed can be shameful, especially if the sponsor is a hard ass. Every one I've ever worked with has the attitude that they are so grateful for your time and wants to bend over backwards to work hard for you. As mentioned before I would never expect more of them than I would myself, encouraged breaks and a work/life balance and would go toe to toe on their behalf with management who insisted I work them harder.

It's my experience that they have a high work ethic, and will take any amount of shit a terrible company owner/sponsor can throw at them. If you'll recall back when Musk took over Twitter and expected people to essentially live at the office and work 20 hours per day, engineers were telling him to go fuck himself, H1B is in no position to say no. This is why those who exploit the most want them want them, filthy billionaire assholes who couldn't care less about you, your family, or your livelihood as a human being.

Long live Luigi.

 

[Nycturne]

My speculation is that they are giving preference to countries where the people are easier to exploit, an upgrade in lifestyle being here at any pay and a cultural obedience to hierarchy and business.

To a point, yeah. But at the same time, for this sort of labor arbitrage to work, you still need the skillsets and training. India and China are of interest right now in particular because they are both growing economies, have a growing middle class, and a culture that is pushing a lot of people to get highly educated. The problem is that India in particular faces a wealth gap worse than the US, rampant corruption in their institutions, which creates both a glut of educated labor that their own economy can't leverage, and an environment where if you are able to build wealth, you either need to get used to greasing palms or get the heck out of dodge. China, while it's doing better at absorbing the talent, is still a one-party state with corruption issues which will create a push for emigration for many people who are educated, but run the risk of running afoul of the party. And in many cases, taking the H1B offer means better pay than they would get at home, and the chance for permanent resident status under more tolerable living conditions.

So yeah, there's plenty of people that will accept this sort trade. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's my experience that they have a high work ethic, and will take any amount of shit a terrible company owner/sponsor can throw at them. If you'll recall back when Musk took over Twitter and expected people to essentially live at the office and work 20 hours per day, engineers were telling him to go fuck himself, H1B is in no position to say no. This is why those who exploit the most want them want them, filthy billionaire assholes who couldn't care less about you, your family, or your livelihood as a human being.

From the perspective of the H1B worker, they are here at the mercy of their sponsor, so what are they going to do? Here's the thing, if I thought keeping my head down would let me get my green card, stop being an H1B and then be free to look for another job? I'd probably keep my head down.

 

[Eric]

From the perspective of the H1B worker, they are here at the mercy of their sponsor, so what are they going to do? Here's the thing, if I thought keeping my head down would let me get my green card, stop being an H1B and then be free to look for another job? I'd probably keep my head down.

I don't agree at all, yes they are here to work but that doesn't mean they should give up their entire life while being here. Some of these people are here for months or years with no prospect of a green card and many bring their families whenever possible. They deserve a life while they work, we all do.

 

[Nycturne]

I don't agree at all, yes they are here to work but that doesn't mean they should give up their entire life while being here. Some of these people are here for months or years with no prospect of a green card and many bring their families whenever possible. They deserve a life while they work, we all do.

Are we even arguing the same thing? It sounds like you are talking about how the workers should be treated while they are here, while I'm referring to the trade off made once someone finds themselves in a bad situation once they are here. Both can be true.

The problem is that if I was someone who took an H1B to work at Twitter and then Musk comes in and makes things bad for me, my choices are now limited. And I am merely stating that in that position, I would probably try to ride it out and leave once I wasn't beholden to the H1B sponsorship. If it became clear that this sponsor had no intention of letting me get my green card, then I'd more seriously consider bailing. Because at the end of the day, if you walk away from an H1B position, you are on a very short clock to find another sponsor who will hire you or your visa expires. It's stressful and a gamble either way.

 

[Eric]

Are we even arguing the same thing? It sounds like you are talking about how the workers should be treated while they are here, while I'm referring to the trade off made once someone finds themselves in a bad situation once they are here. Both can be true.

The problem is that if I was someone who took an H1B to work at Twitter and then Musk comes in and makes things bad for me, my choices are now limited. And I am merely stating that in that position, I would probably try to ride it out and leave once I wasn't beholden to the H1B sponsorship. If it became clear that this sponsor had no intention of letting me get my green card, then I'd more seriously consider bailing. Because at the end of the day, if you walk away from an H1B position, you are on a very short clock to find another sponsor who will hire you or your visa expires. It's stressful and a gamble either way.

Yes, this is exactly the point I'm making. At that point they're screwed though I think they understand that risk when taking said contract and it's unfortunate. As to what they do once they hit that realization it's a fair question, my position is the unscrupulous employers should adhere to labor laws but most don't. The irony is these rich pricks spend way more trying to undo these regulations than they would for local talent.

My views here may be myopic but I will never think of one of these workers as less than a human, less than who I am, less than the owner of the IT sweatshop. As it stands much of it is like slave labor from what I've seen.

 

[Nycturne]

Yes, this is exactly the point I'm making. At that point they're screwed though I think they understand that risk when taking said contract and it's unfortunate. As to what they do once they hit that realization it's a fair question, my position is the unscrupulous employers should adhere to labor laws but most don't.

Here’s the thing, I fundamentally agree that these employees should be treated fairly under the H1B rules as they are laid out by law. In my neck of the woods, the full timers I work with are, and I want to see that level of adherence be standard.

What I’m getting at is that in the world we actually live in, I can see that someone dealing with this would take it on the chin so to speak, because once they have their permanent residency, the leverage the sponsor has evaporates. And being sent home could very well make things even more uncertain for them. I’m not saying it’s right or just, but that I can see why they stick it out.