Afghanistan (Again)

podcasts.apple.com

Episode 35: Matthew Hoh

Podcast Episode · Krystal Kyle & Friends · 08/21/2021 · 1h 40m
podcasts.apple.com podcasts.apple.com

Great interview with a former marine who later resigned his related civilian post because he longer wanted to be associated with or in support of the lies about the Afghanistan war.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
podcasts.apple.com

Episode 35: Matthew Hoh

Podcast Episode · Krystal Kyle & Friends · 08/21/2021 · 1h 40m
podcasts.apple.com podcasts.apple.com

Great interview with a former marine who later resigned his related civilian post because he longer wanted to be associated with or in support of the lies about the Afghanistan war.
Click to expand...

A few key take aways.

The main cause of veteran suicides is guilt, but not just from possibly killing people. Once out of their echo chamber of military support they are allowed to think more critically, possibly being exposed to the lies for the first time and connecting those dots to their own experience. They realized they were duped into being little more than a cog in the US imperialism machine. The VA is well aware of this.

At one point during the Obama administration the strategy was to terrorize the population into supporting the US. This follows the logic that if it worked for our enemies then why not use the same tactic.

Members of Congress have said behind closed doors that they know the generals are lying to them but feel there is nothing they can do about it. If any member of Congress threatens to go public with this they get slammed by other members in Congress telling them they can’t do that. This circles back to “blame Biden!”. You honestly believe the military that has been lying for decades is incapable of lying to the President about how prepared we were to exit? More than likely they are bitter at a President who finally followed through with the exit. They also have a nice long history of not giving a shit about the civilians…now they suddenly care?
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
A few key take aways.

The main cause of veteran suicides is guilt, but not just from possibly killing people. Once out of their echo chamber of military support they are allowed to think more critically, possibly being exposed to the lies for the first time and connecting those dots to their own experience. They realized they were duped into being little more than a cog in the US imperialism machine. The VA is well aware of this.

At one point during the Obama administration the strategy was to terrorize the population into supporting the US. This follows the logic that if it worked for our enemies then why not use the same tactic.

Members of Congress have said behind closed doors that they know the generals are lying to them but feel there is nothing they can do about it. If any member of Congress threatens to go public with this they get slammed by other members in Congress telling them they can’t do that. This circles back to “blame Biden!”. You honestly believe the military that has been lying for decades is incapable of lying to the President about how prepared we were to exit? More than likely they are bitter at a President who finally followed through with the exit. They also have a nice long history of not giving a shit about the civilians…now they suddenly care?
Click to expand...
Unless you are a sociopath (then you already have different issues), war, the act of harming and killing people as a matter of routine, damages everyone involved. But by our nature, we as a species seem prone to this activity as we attempt to sieze the advantage for ourselves and our interests. We might learn some things from the ants and the bees.
 
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Huntn said:
Unless you are a sociopath (then you already have different issues), war, the act of harming and killing people as a matter of routine, damages everyone involved. But by our nature, we as a species seem prone to this activity as we attempt to sieze the advantage for ourselves and our interests. We might learn some things from the ants and the bees.
Click to expand...

I think we’ve been brainwashed by those at the top into believing violence is always a possible solution to disagreements and the suggested target is never them, always everybody else. This in turn causes outrage over the resulting violence which keeps our eyes off them while they continue to block non violent solutions that would cost them money. If our eyes start going in their direction then they just remind us we should return our gaze to the violence in the lower classes (which they instigated).
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
I think we’ve been brainwashed by those at the top into believing violence is always a possible solution to disagreements and the suggested target is never them, always everybody else. This in turn causes outrage over the resulting violence which keeps our eyes off them while they continue to block non violent solutions that would cost them money. If our eyes start going in their direction then they just remind us we should return our gaze to the violence in the lower classes (which they instigated).
Click to expand...

It’s hard for me to judge what kind of lying is going on, primarily because, I’m not a first hand witness. And when I was in the USNavy, we were all formerly civilians, who had a variety of moral standards, but regard for human life was supposed to be one of these standards. I was lucky in that I was not in the military during a war, and I ended up flying an unarmed aircraft, so I was less likely to feel the kind of guilt one gets from killing civilians. Yes, bombing civilians could be a huge guilt issue.

At the time I was in (early 80s), Iran was an issue, and was viewed as a hostile entity and I can imagine that if a hostile Iranian F-14 (if any were functional) challenged US forces in the Red Sea would be shot down without much in the way of guilt.

At one point in my Navy career where I was lining up for being a fighter pilot, I read the book And Kill Migs which was an eye opener because it made me realize without a doubt, this was the ultimate life and death game. I never had to do it, there was never an opportunity for me to do it during the 9 years I flew in the Navy.

But back to the Generals and Admirals, do they lie on occasion or as a matter of routine, I imagine it might depend on what kind of pressure they are under. I would sincerely hope that there are some (most) with integrity. In Afghanistan, the issue is we had supposedly trained hundreds of thousands of Afghans to defend their country. Was that entire premise suspect? Yes, possibly. But did our Generals know that the bulk of these Afghan forces would walk in day 1? If so, then there was some serious lying going on and I refer to my earlier statement that if they had known, they completely blew our withdrawal planning, imo. Otherwise, they should have been gathering their chicks up for six months prior to get them out. :unsure:
 
Huntn said:
It’s hard for me to judge what kind of lying is going on, primarily because, I’m not a first hand witness. And when I was in the USNavy, we were all formerly civilians, who had a variety of moral standards, but regard for human life was supposed to be one of these standards. I was lucky in that I was not in the military during a war, and I ended up flying an unarmed aircraft, so I was less likely to feel the kind of guilt one gets from killing civilians. Yes, bombing civilians could be a huge guilt issue.

At the time I was in (early 80s), Iran was an issue, and was viewed as a hostile entity and I can imagine that if a hostile Iranian F-14 (if any were functional) challenged US forces in the Red Sea would be shot down without much in the way of guilt.

At one point in my Navy career where I was lining up for being a fighter pilot, I read the book And Kill Migs which was an eye opener because it made me realize without a doubt, this was the ultimate life and death game. I never had to do it, there was never an opportunity for me to do it during the 9 years I flew in the Navy.

But back to the Generals and Admirals, do they lie on occasion or as a matter of routine, I imagine it might depend on what kind of pressure they are under. I would sincerely hope that there are some (most) with integrity. In Afghanistan, the issue is we had supposedly trained hundreds of thousands of Afghans to defend their country. Was that entire premise suspect? Yes, possibly. But did our Generals know that the bulk of these Afghan forces would walk in day 1? If so, then there was some serious lying going on and I refer to my earlier statement that if they had known, they completely blew our withdrawal planning, imo. Otherwise, they should have been gathering their chicks up for six months prior to get them out. :unsure:
Click to expand...

Currently I think there is a sliver of being able to criticize the military but being able to actually hold them accountable is still a bridge too far. They are probably protected under some house of cards perception. "If they were wrong about that then.......!" and we just can't have that.

In the podcast interview he mentioned a region in Afghanistan that was widely being reported as some great strategic victory. When he interviewed different soldiers who were there at different times the only reason he was given as to why they were there was because soldiers were already there before them. When he traced it back to the first group he was told it seemed like a good geographic location to set up a base. Nothing of consequence ever happened there the entire time we were there. The people who lived in the region just wanted to be left alone and didn't have any ties to the war. In fact after decades or generations of being left alone, the first time they had to deal with the greater Afghan government was when the one we backed showed up to tell them they were now going to get taxed now. USA!!
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
podcasts.apple.com

Episode 35: Matthew Hoh

Podcast Episode · Krystal Kyle & Friends · 08/21/2021 · 1h 40m
podcasts.apple.com podcasts.apple.com

Great interview with a former marine who later resigned his related civilian post because he longer wanted to be associated with or in support of the lies about the Afghanistan war.
Click to expand...

Another key take away.

We partnered with the drug lords. Opium is pretty much the country’s entire export economy. I seem to recall the US having an opioid crisis, but I guess not, given this information. We funded one governor to eradicate the poppy fields but he instead used the opportunity to strongarm competitors out and increase his own share of the industry. We gave him $10 million for a job well done. Makes you wonder why the local population wasn’t excited to embrace the government we backed.

The whole thing stinks of Iran Contra, but this time the down wind victims were white. Oops, guess we ran out of minorities to plague. Anyhow, gotta keep the war profiteering machine rolling.
 
www.politico.com

ISIS terrorist threats jeopardize Afghanistan evacuation, Pentagon assessment warns

The security in Kabul has deteriorated Tuesday due to new terrorist threats by the Islamic State branch in Afghanistan.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

Hey, let’s attempt the ISIS Hail Mary. Maybe we should have the military protecting the military as it’s leaving, or did we just leave all our weapons behind and FedEx what we could back to the US? Oops, what a goof. Now we just look silly.
 
So 2 Congressmen flew to Afghanistan for a couple hours. Not really sure what the point of that was.

IMO next time we go to war if it lasts more than 2 months then every person in Congress needs to be picked at random to go live in that region for a month until we exit. We'll see how eager they are to start and prolong wars then.
 
Eric said:
WTG Hillary

www.independent.co.uk

Hillary Clinton trying to charter flights for at-risk women in Afghanistan

Former secretary of state also spoke with Justin Trudeau about escalating crisis in the country
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
Click to expand...

Living improved for women and girls in the cities. The majority of the population doesn't live in the cities and those people are more preoccupied with not becoming collateral damage between the warring sides. We don't care about those people. They don't make good Oprah guests.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
So 2 Congressmen flew to Afghanistan for a couple hours. Not really sure what the point of that was.

IMO next time we go to war if it lasts more than 2 months then every person in Congress needs to be picked at random to go live in that region for a month until we exit. We'll see how eager they are to start and prolong wars then.
Click to expand...
Both of the guys who went actually served in Afghanistan and are combat vets. Not sure why they did it really. It was a dumb move.
 
Alli said:
Both of the guys who went actually served in Afghanistan and are combat vets. Not sure why they did it really. It was a dumb move.
Click to expand...

Yeah and at least Pelosi has reminded Dems that State and Defense have asked congressmen not to engage in such adventures at this time. Gotta love one of them saying well i made sure to come back on a flight with empty seats. That does nothing to ameliorate the fact that US officials had to dedicate resources to those guys' security in Afghanistan after they just showed up. JFC.
 
lizkat said:
Yeah and at least Pelosi has reminded Dems that State and Defense have asked congressmen not to engage in such adventures at this time. Gotta love one of them saying well i made sure to come back on a flight with empty seats. That does nothing to ameliorate the fact that US officials had to dedicate resources to those guys' security in Afghanistan after they just showed up. JFC.
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Maybe it was to show the world that we still have bipartisan agreement when it comes to being tone def dipshits on war.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
www.republicworld.com

Taliban tries to breach Panjshir; gets thrashed by Resistance Force with heavy casualties

Taliban tries to breach Panjshir; gets thrashed by Resistance Force with heavy casualties
www.republicworld.com www.republicworld.com

The Taliban never gets tired of having their ass handed to them by the Northern Alliance.

Hm, wonder why I’m getting this story from India. Doesn’t seem to be registering with the usual western media sources.
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I saw that go past me somewhere other than in that source but don't remember where now.

Anyway Panjshir province may be the last one standing right now but tribal resistance to the Taliban will ratchet back up as time goes on. Taliban are still seen as occupiers especially in the north, particularly when monetary emoluments recently made start fading from memory. How long will that take?

Biden argued early during Obama's presidency that even a surge and then counterintelligence style efforts going forward in Afghanistan were not going to win the day there.

Some contemporary American general or field commander said back then that "this will all end in an argument". Yeah... but apparently not all that soon. Not there, not here. Even now the USA's beltway neocons beat the drum that there was and so still is a way to "win it".

Win what? The quagmire was failure to define the extension of the original "retaliate!!" mission in a way that would ever draw in all of Afghanistan. "Afghanistan" per se remains a geopolitical construct, not a nation.
 

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