Apple M5 rumors

In what ways? Lowering latency? Increasing speed? That all seems like standard incremental improvement stuff more so than any Apple magic sauce.
It seems like the reason AirDrop fails sometimes, is that the chipset has to sleep to save power. If Apple can make low power performance of their WiFi/bt chip better, overall reliability could improve. I don’t think this is something they can do with current bt modules.
That said, there’s another ‘next gen’ RF chip rumored for next year which I think might be a springboard for some Apple Magic - the second gen UWB chip. I could imagine UX for AirDrop that’s essentially ‘point your phone directly at someone else’s phone and flick whatever is on screen to them.’

More generally, precision location opens up a lot of opportunities for new UX. And who knows, maybe there’s some synergy between UWB and beam forming for WiFi/bluetooth…fails sometimes is that the Bluetooth chip
The second gen UWB chip came out with the iPhone 15 Pro and Apple watch 9.
 
From my experience with OpenWrt, AP and STA mode are different. And if an interface can act as AP, and STA, both can work simultaneously. And if I'm not wrong, Apple uses BCM WiFi and those are usually fully 802.11 compliant and can be used in routers or mesh solutions.
If you’re using OpenWRT, I assume you’re using it on a router or access point? The hardware (radios) in those are not the same as you find in client devices, eg laptops, HomePod, Apple TV.
 
Wondering how much this will impact latency and power. If Apple's doing it, presumably not enough to be a major net negative for users over the cost reductions. But this heuristic doesn't stand versus actual measurement etc, companies blow things of course.

Anyway my guess is it's measurably higher idle power and maybe also some hit to dynamic power, but whether or not that's enough to outweigh the advantage of being able to lower costs/raise the bar for the GPU size etc and improve their supply chain? I doubt it if they're doing it. Would be a great thing if chiplets at TSMC are finally good enough to go this route - wonder if we'll see it in base chips too eventually (suspect not but who knows).
 
I keep seeing this repeated, that M5 "will be missing out" on TSMC's N2:


But I'm not seeing any indication that N2 is actually ready for mass production for 2025 chips or anyone rumored to be releasing N2-fabbed chips in 2025. The 2nm iPhone won't be releasing until 2026 and even though the M4 came before the A17, it was still the same year. So this seems to be people repeating a bad original rumor, then saying "Apple changed its mind" rather than admitting that the original rumor was flawed, which is what I stated in the OP of this thread.
 
Here's a Google translation of Notebookcheck's Korean source, Kwon Dong-Jun of etnews ( https://www.etnews.com/20250205000198 ):

Apple M5 mass production begins… ‘AI performance upgraded with new process’​

Apple has started mass production of the next-generation semiconductor chip, the 'M5'. It is a semiconductor that is installed in Apple's core products such as the Mac series and iPad. It has been found that Apple has introduced a new process technology to enhance artificial intelligence (AI) performance.

According to the industry on the 5th, Apple has been found to have started packaging the M5 chip since last month. Packaging is the work of protecting the semiconductor chip (die) and enabling electrical connection with other devices or parts. Apple entrusted the full-process production of implementing the M5 chip circuit to Taiwan's TSMC, which means that the semiconductor chip has been produced and the packaging company (O SA T) has started making it into a final finished product.

The Apple M5 chip packaging is handled by Taiwan's ASE, the US' Amkor, and China's JCET. The first mass production was started by ASE, and Amkor and JCET's mass production will also be carried out sequentially. The initial production product is known to be the M5 general model. The M5 is divided into general, pro, max, and ultra depending on performance and application. It is reported that major OSAT companies are currently investing in additional facilities for mass production of high-end M5 models such as Pro, Max, and Ultra.

An industry insider familiar with the matter said, “Orders for equipment to expand M5 mass production are continuously being placed,” and predicted, “As full-scale production has begun, it will be sequentially installed in Apple devices to be released in the future.” The next iPad Pro is likely to be the first to be installed.

The M5 is evaluated as a semiconductor that Apple has targeted for the AI market. This is because Apple has been strengthening its response to AI since last year.

First of all, the entire process utilized TSMC’s 3nm process (N3P). Power efficiency has improved by 5-10% and performance by 5% compared to the previous process (M4).

It is reported that the M5 Pro product will use the TSMC SoIC-MH packaging process. This is a method of vertically stacking semiconductor chips. This is expected to further improve heat control and performance.

Vertical stacking uses hybrid bonding to directly connect wafers or chips with copper, and it is known that the Netherlands’ Besi equipment was used.

Femtosecond laser technology was first applied to M5 chip cutting (grooving). The laser at intervals of 1/1000 trillionth of a second minimized damage and contamination of semiconductors. It is analyzed that this is for securing quality and improving yield. It has been confirmed that the femtosecond grooving equipment is supplied by EOTECHNICS.

There has also been a change to the semiconductor substrate on which the M5 chip will be mounted on the device’s main board. The performance of ABF (Ajinomoto Build-up Film), an insulating and adhesive used when stacking circuit layers on the substrate, has been significantly improved. Ajinomoto, the exclusive supplier of ABF, plans to supply the next-generation ABF that is thinner and allows for large-area stacking for the manufacturing of M5 chip substrates. An industry insider commented, “It will be possible to stack more circuit layers, which will enable higher performance.”

The substrate manufacturing will be handled by Taiwan Unimicron and Samsung Electro-Mechanics. Investments in facilities are being made to enable mass production of substrates in line with the mass production (ramp-up) schedule.


Reporter Kwon Dong-Jun djkwon@etnews.com
 
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