California recall election now has 70 people on the ballot

[Herdfan]

That's my issue (with politics in general). What are the actual solutions, especially to an issue like homelessness? I

Neither party wants "solutions." If a problem is solved, you can't run on it.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Come on. H-1B visas are not the problem we’re discussing, because people on those visas are LEGAL. So the tech workers complaining are complaining about LEGAL immigrants. And let’s face it: they are LEGAL because it benefits the tech giants, who pay huge checks to politicians… and the higher-wage workers would NOT come here illegally and try to sneak into Google to write code.

Meanwhile, business owners who benefit from a low-skill labor force that is ILLEGAL (they cannot complain about their pay or they get deported!) want to keep 11 million illegal workers exactly where they are: under their boot.

Our government chooses the legality of the immigrants because it benefits the companies, not the immigrants, nor the government nor the people - who miss out on the higher productivity that comes from people who are proud citizens instead of fearful of deportation.

I see it in simpler terms. It’s a regional overpopulation issue. Buildings have capacity limits. You don’t just cram more people in there because they qualify to be in there.

I’m also not really making a distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. Some industries and regions benefit more from illegal immigrants while others benefit from legal immigrants. To me it’s all just too many bodies in the building.

 

[SuperMatt]

I see it in simpler terms. It’s a regional overpopulation issue. Buildings have capacity limits. You don’t just cram more people in there because they qualify to be in there.

I’m also not really making a distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. Some industries and regions benefit more from illegal immigrants while others benefit from legal immigrants. To me it’s all just too many bodies in the building.

Is the US overpopulated? Maybe we can build some cities in Wyoming or some other states with very few people per square mile.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Is the US overpopulated? Maybe we can build some cities in Wyoming or some other states with very few people per square mile.

Regional overpopulation. I think there actually was/is a small growing tech community in Wyoming, or maybe it’s Montana.

I think what the tech industry did was “let’s turn the Bay Area into a feel good It’s a Small World community” while not worrying about how we are going to house all these people, for 2 decades so far. What irks me more is if any industry could successfully work remotely, it’s tech. Covid proved that and it’s only because of worker kickback to return to the office that they are considering expanding that.

 

[Herdfan]

Regional overpopulation. I think there actually was/is a small growing tech community in Wyoming, or maybe it’s Montana.

I wonder if some of this is going to take care of itself.

Between people being forced into remote work and then discovering they like it and companies finding out any loss of productivity would easily be offset by not paying huge rents, people may simply leave the big cities. Or not need to move there for a new job.

Add to that the increasing violence in the cities and people may just say no.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I wonder if some of this is going to take care of itself.

Between people being forced into remote work and then discovering they like it and companies finding out any loss of productivity would easily be offset by not paying huge rents, people may simply leave the big cities. Or not need to move there for a new job.

Add to that the increasing violence in the cities and people may just say no.

I say that can’t happen fast enough. I think as people exit it will also bring down the crime rate. SF in particular is a heaping hot mess of inequality. You have the super rich and the super poor trying to coexist on a 7 square mile plot of land. There’s no economic diversity there. This isn’t excusing other possible related government policies but it’s a big part of it.

 

[Eric]

I say that can’t happen fast enough. I think as people exit it will also bring down the crime rate. SF in particular is a heaping hot mess of inequality. You have the super rich and the super poor trying to coexist on a 7 square mile plot of land. There’s no economic diversity there. This isn’t excusing other possible related government policies but it’s a big part of it.

This nails SF perfectly. You can literally drive down the same street and have wealthy millionaires on one block and poverty stricken broken down homes on the next, you've never seen a more stark contrast due to gentrification, it's everywhere in the city.

Downtown has an area of maybe 20 square blocks where you have homelessness, crime, mentally disabled people, drug usage, hookers, etc., no place you want to walk alone during non-business hours. There are needles and feces all over and it's pretty sad to see.

They've also had to close a bunch of Target and Walgreens stores because people just walk in and steal shit off the shelves in front of God an everyone, even the cops because there's nothing they can really do about it. I'm as liberal as it gets and even I can't understand why this is allowed without question, they've really tied the hands of law enforcement there.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

They've also had to close a bunch of Target and Walgreens stores because people just walk in and steal shit off the shelves in front of God an everyone, even the cops because there's nothing they can really do about it. I'm as liberal as it gets and even I can't understand why this is allowed without question, they've really tied the hands of law enforcement there.

Not saying that isn’t an issue, but the national news was reporting on the SF Walgreens closings and saying it was specifically because of theft and the CA laws preventing the police from doing anything about it. A little research showed these stores were scheduled to be closed before that became an issue, they closed a lot of other stores in the country about the same time, and there wasn’t any really noticeable difference in theft between stores inside and outside CA. It’s a bit like the Bermuda Triangle. Drop that same triangle over anywhere on the globe with some land and a lot of water and you’ll find an equal amount of “unexplained mysteries”. It’s all about controlling the narrative and what their motives are.

 

[SuperMatt]

This nails SF perfectly. You can literally drive down the same street and have wealthy millionaires on one block and poverty stricken broken down homes on the next, you've never seen a more stark contrast due to gentrification, it's everywhere in the city.

Downtown has an area of maybe 20 square blocks where you have homelessness, crime, mentally disabled people, drug usage, hookers, etc., no place you want to walk alone during non-business hours. There are needles and feces all over and it's pretty sad to see.

They've also had to close a bunch of Target and Walgreens stores because people just walk in and steal shit off the shelves in front of God an everyone, even the cops because there's nothing they can really do about it. I'm as liberal as it gets and even I can't understand why this is allowed without question, they've really tied the hands of law enforcement there.

Sure, arresting poor people that are stealing to survive is the solution to the absurd wealth inequality problem. /s

 

[Herdfan]

Sure, arresting poor people that are stealing to survive is the solution to the absurd wealth inequality problem. /s

If it were individuals stealing food, I might agree with you. But the video in this story sure don't look like poor people stealing food:

After San Francisco shoplifting video goes viral, officials argue thefts aren't rampant

The city has been gripped by a perception of lawlessness after a string of videos featured people openly shoplifting, seemingly without repercussion.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[SuperMatt]

If it were individuals stealing food, I might agree with you. But the video in this story sure don't look like poor people stealing food:

After San Francisco shoplifting video goes viral, officials argue thefts aren't rampant

The city has been gripped by a perception of lawlessness after a string of videos featured people openly shoplifting, seemingly without repercussion.

www.nbcnews.com

From the linked article:

Police data shows overall thefts are down 9 percent in the first six months of the year compared to the same period in 2020

"The statistics are counter to the narrative," Scott said at a news conference

What happens when people just watch video of a single robbery and don’t read. ^^^

 

[Herdfan]

What happens when people just watch video of a single robbery and don’t read. ^^^

Wasn't my point. My point was those aren't poor hungry people. That was an orchestrated heist of luxury goods. They need to be arrested.

 

[SuperMatt]

Wasn't my point. My point was those aren't poor hungry people. That was an orchestrated heist of luxury goods. They need to be arrested.

The law in question is CA prop 47 (2014) which sets a $950 threshold for shoplifting before it becomes a felony. The video shows people stealing much more than $950 of stuff, so they are committing a felony and subject to arrest.

The article is a bit annoying because it seems to be blaming this law for the thefts, but it literally doesn’t apply to these thefts. Sure, they eventually mention that within the article, but most people read the headline, watch the video, and move on.

And we don’t know whether the criminals are poor and/or hungry. Most people don’t do the “grunt work” of an organized crime ring if they already have enough money to feed their families.

 

[Eric]

From the linked article:





What happens when people just watch video of a single robbery and don’t read. ^^^

It's not just "this" incident and it's definitely not directly related to hunger or poverty. You see this reported all the time in the bay area, they walk in and fill up carts with the most expensive shit in these stores and walk out with it in front of God and everyone.

My wife worked at a local Safeway down there and saw this happen daily as well, the employees are told to just let it happen and not to "bother" the police when they witness it because they won't even show up. Then you see people selling these goods online Craigslist, Nextdoor, etc., this is why most stores now refuse to stock expensive items on shelves now. I'm the first to go to bat for those being oppressed but it has nothing to do with this directly.

Nobody, no matter how liberal, would ever say "feel free to walk in and rob a store blind" with zero consequences. The losses to many of these stores in San Francisco have forced them to close as a result.

 

[Huntn]

For those unaware like me:

California’s recall election: how does it work – and will Gavin Newsom survive?

The state is poised to hold a gubernatorial recall vote for only the second time in history

www.theguardian.com

And from AssHat Land:

California GOP won't endorse a candidate against Newsom in recall

The California Republican Party on Saturday chose not to endorse any candidate in the upcoming recall election that could remove Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) from office, Politico reports.Why it matters: Republicans are hoping the decision will unite their base toward defeating Newsom, who is fairing...

news.yahoo.com

 

[Eric]

For those unaware like me:

California’s recall election: how does it work – and will Gavin Newsom survive?

The state is poised to hold a gubernatorial recall vote for only the second time in history

www.theguardian.com

And from AssHat Land:

California GOP won't endorse a candidate against Newsom in recall

The California Republican Party on Saturday chose not to endorse any candidate in the upcoming recall election that could remove Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) from office, Politico reports.Why it matters: Republicans are hoping the decision will unite their base toward defeating Newsom, who is fairing...

news.yahoo.com

Basically, it appears that if Newsom is voted out, the next highest on the ballot will win and that's some looney bin right wing talk show host. Democrats were not wise to at least put one of their own on the ballot.

 

[SuperMatt]

It's not just "this" incident and it's definitely not directly related to hunger or poverty. You see this reported all the time in the bay area, they walk in and fill up carts with the most expensive shit in these stores and walk out with it in front of God and everyone.

My wife worked at a local Safeway down there and saw this happen daily as well, the employees are told to just let it happen and not to "bother" the police when they witness it because they won't even show up. Then you see people selling these goods online Craigslist, Nextdoor, etc., this is why most stores now refuse to stock expensive items on shelves now. I'm the first to go to bat for those being oppressed but it has nothing to do with this directly.

Nobody, no matter how liberal, would ever say "feel free to walk in and rob a store blind" with zero consequences. The losses to many of these stores in San Francisco have forced them to close as a result.

Arresting thieves is all well and good, but it’s not going to solve the wealth inequality problem at the root of this.

By the way, your linked article doesn’t say that stores are forced to close:

Retail giant Target recently began closing its San Francisco stores early. Stores outside the city will remain open until 10 p.m. Its five locations inside the city limits, however, will close at 6 p.m.

Closing 4 hours early is not “forced to close.” Not by a long shot. Try being honest if you want your arguments taken seriously. I have to assume you’re just playing devil’s advocate when you post something like that.

 

[Eric]

Arresting thieves is all well and good, but it’s not going to solve the wealth inequality problem at the root of this.

By the way, your linked article doesn’t say that stores are forced to close:


Closing 4 hours early is not “forced to close.” Not by a long shot. Try being honest if you want your arguments taken seriously. I have to assume you’re just playing devil’s advocate when you post something like that.

Bullshit, spoken like someone completely detached from the reality of the local area. Additionally, inequality isn't forcing anyone to steal the most expensive items in the stores and sell it online, opportunity is.

BTW stores HAVE closed

Walgreens has already closed several stores for the same reason and security guards like Kevin Greathouse are told not to physically engage with those shoplifting.

Why are you defending this? Seriously.

 

[Eric]

Try being honest if you want your arguments taken seriously. I have to assume you’re just playing devil’s advocate when you post something like that.

Also, quit making this personal and stick to the point instead of attacking me.

 

[SuperMatt]

Bullshit, spoken like someone completely detached from the reality of the local area. Additionally, inequality isn't forcing anyone to steal the most expensive items in the stores and sell it online, opportunity is.

BTW stores HAVE closed


Why are you defending this? Seriously.

What do you propose as a solution? Police have already made multiple arrests, including this guy:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1406429899888336896/

Why is this happening in SF specifically? The misdemeanor limit of $950 for shoplifting doesn’t seem to be the cause, as these widely-circulated videos show people stealing much more than that.

Edit: do you think this initiative from the Governor will help?

Newsom Signs Bill Aimed at Cracking Down on Organized Retail Theft

Surrounded by law enforcement officers and mayors from across California, Gov. Gavin Newsom announced an aggressive enforcement plan Wednesday targeting a stunning surge in brazen retail thefts by organized gangs.

sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com