California to end mask mandate on Feb 15
- Thread starter Eric
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lizkat
Watching March roll out real winter
So here's a question.
In the past week, 5 Blue states (CA, CO, DE, NJ, NY) have ended or will soon end their mask mandates. This is contrary to the what the CDC is currently advising. I know it is usually when the Red states do something like this heads start exploding about them not following the science. Well the CDC is the science, so why aren't they following it? I know California has scientists because almost everything I buy is known to the State of California to cause cancer. So maybe their scientists are smarter than those at the CDC.
So are these states following their own science or are the following Political Science that says there is an election in 9 months and people aren't happy?
CDC pleads for caution, but governors may be done listening
Caught seemingly off guard by the rapidity with which Democratic elected officials in states on both coasts have rolled back pandemic restrictions in recent days, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky urged continued caution on Wednesday, even as she acknowledged that approach is falling out of favor.news.yahoo.com
In a lot of blue states the pols have noticed that the larger stores and corporations and some large municipalities have their own masking protocols (or mandates in the case of employees) and so it allows them the political leeway to ease up on the state level mandates that have been applied to businesses or to groups of individuals.
We're all flying by the seat of our pants to some extent with the mutating coronavirus, whether we are scientifically minded or otherwise. "Following the science" is not incompatible with human adaptation to changing circumstances.
Adaptation is also what drives the changing face of the prevalent strains of the virus itself at any given time, so the whole mad circus of a viral pandemic is really about testing pressure points. For the virus encountering a vaccine, it's about landing with an unvaccinated host, or else chancing on a mutation that happens to be an effective workaround, hence the truth at that level of the old saw "Evolve or Die."
On the human side, it's more complex (since we're more complex): our pressure points are both physical and mental, and so they are also emotional and potentially political. Human flexibility is unquestionably an asset, but it does have its limits in any person. Human grievance is potentially a serious political problem. An efficient state model tries to navigate between those attributes, to the end it doesn't ask too much of our flexibility on any issue.
Medical science may point out best practices regarding tamping down the coronavirus pandemic, but those practices may not always fit well with how things roll with ordinary people juggling work, school, parenting etc. We're at a point right now where the current prevalent strains of the virus have mild impact on vaccinated individuals. And it's not like massive effort hasn't gone into encouraging people to get vaccinated. On the other hand, what good is a CDC that shrugs and offers public advice against best practices? So CDC says what it knows and has to take a certain amount of flak for both changing its advice over time (as medicine and the virus change), and for being out of step with political will of the people at least some of the time.
I'm not apologizing for the idiocies of the millions of vax resisters who can't back up their "reasons" for not getting jabbed-- because their decisions are largely just the result of truly mindless political propagada. But I do get why the blue states now are rolling back mandates. It's about voter impatience with the restrictions and yeah it's about upcoming elections too.
From the NYT - hopefully this isn't too choppy, I did a C&P from a long article with graphics, etc.
Here’s Where You Still Need to Wear Masks in the New York Region
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut have all announced plans to loosen certain restrictions, but all of them continue to require masks in some places.
An announcement by Gov. Kathy Hochul that New York State’s mask or proof of vaccination mandate for indoor public spaces would be allowed to lapse will have no effect on New York City’s rule requiring vaccination to eat indoors at restaurants.
Feb. 9, 2022
Updated 3:53 p.m. ET
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut are among a number of states nationally that are loosening or ending mask mandates as coronavirus cases fall precipitously from their recent peaks. On Wednesday, Gov. Kathy Hochul of New York announced that a statewide mask or proof of vaccination mandate for all indoor public locations would be allowed to expire on Thursday. But it is not time to put away those masks completely.
Each of the three states, as well as New York City and other cities and towns in the region, continue to require masks in some places. And federal rules still require masks on all forms of public transportation and in transportation hubs, including in subway stations, bus terminals and airports, at least until March 18.
Where is a mask still required in New York City?
New York City, once the epicenter of the pandemic, has had more stringent masking rules in place than many other parts of the country. Governor Hochul’s announcement lifts some, but not most, of those restrictions, taking New York back to the masking rules that were in effect before the Omicron surge began in December.
Masks will still be required in New York City while riding public transportation, including when taking car services and taxis. They will still be required when inside a school, in a child care or a health care setting, and at group residential facilities such as nursing homes and homeless shelters.
In addition, owners of stores, restaurants, theaters or other public spaces are still permitted to require masks. In Broadway theaters, for example, both masks and proof of vaccination will continue to be required at least until April 30.
Restaurants, gyms, museums and other indoor cultural and entertainment venues are required to ask for proof of vaccination under a policy known as “Key to NYC.” That policy remains in effect. In these venues, masks can come off if the owners or venues permit it. But in practice, many cultural venues do require masks in addition to vaccination proof.
So what is new? You can now take off your mask again in stores, pharmacies, offices, hotel lobbies and supermarkets, if the owners of those businesses permit it. The same goes for offices: If your office allows you to go mask-free for part or all the time, you may.
But there is a big caveat: If you are unvaccinated, you must still wear a mask whenever you are in a public space, according to city regulations. About 86 percent of adult New York City residents, and 76 percent of residents of all ages, are fully vaccinated.
Where are masks required elsewhere in New York State?
Like New York City, New York State has had multiple mask mandates in place through much of the pandemic. Many of those rules remain in place.
Masks are still required in health care and adult care facilities, nursing homes, in homeless shelters and in correctional facilities when social distancing is not possible. Masks are also still required in all schools serving students from pre-K to 12th grade.
While she said she was not yet ready to lift the school mask mandate, which is based on a regulation that is set to expire on Feb. 21, Governor Hochul said Wednesday that schools would distribute at-home test kits before the upcoming midwinter break to help gauge infection levels.
She said she would make a decision about the mask rules upon students’ return to school, by the first week of March, and that she would base it on data.
“This fight is not over,” she said, “but the trends are very, very positive.”
Following federal rules, masks are also required on public transportation and in train stations, airports and other transport hubs. And localities and businesses are also free to impose their own mask requirements.
But in locations where they do not, masks can come off. That includes movie theaters, bowling alleys, stores, restaurants and offices, if the owners and localities allow it.
There is also no longer a state requirement to show proof of vaccination before masks can be removed. Localities may continue to set vaccination requirements, however, and businesses throughout the state may continue to ask for proof of vaccination.
Here’s Where You Still Need to Wear Masks in the New York Region
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut have all announced plans to loosen certain restrictions, but all of them continue to require masks in some places.
An announcement by Gov. Kathy Hochul that New York State’s mask or proof of vaccination mandate for indoor public spaces would be allowed to lapse will have no effect on New York City’s rule requiring vaccination to eat indoors at restaurants.
Feb. 9, 2022
Updated 3:53 p.m. ET
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut are among a number of states nationally that are loosening or ending mask mandates as coronavirus cases fall precipitously from their recent peaks. On Wednesday, Gov. Kathy Hochul of New York announced that a statewide mask or proof of vaccination mandate for all indoor public locations would be allowed to expire on Thursday. But it is not time to put away those masks completely.
Each of the three states, as well as New York City and other cities and towns in the region, continue to require masks in some places. And federal rules still require masks on all forms of public transportation and in transportation hubs, including in subway stations, bus terminals and airports, at least until March 18.
Where is a mask still required in New York City?
New York City, once the epicenter of the pandemic, has had more stringent masking rules in place than many other parts of the country. Governor Hochul’s announcement lifts some, but not most, of those restrictions, taking New York back to the masking rules that were in effect before the Omicron surge began in December.
Masks will still be required in New York City while riding public transportation, including when taking car services and taxis. They will still be required when inside a school, in a child care or a health care setting, and at group residential facilities such as nursing homes and homeless shelters.
In addition, owners of stores, restaurants, theaters or other public spaces are still permitted to require masks. In Broadway theaters, for example, both masks and proof of vaccination will continue to be required at least until April 30.
Restaurants, gyms, museums and other indoor cultural and entertainment venues are required to ask for proof of vaccination under a policy known as “Key to NYC.” That policy remains in effect. In these venues, masks can come off if the owners or venues permit it. But in practice, many cultural venues do require masks in addition to vaccination proof.
So what is new? You can now take off your mask again in stores, pharmacies, offices, hotel lobbies and supermarkets, if the owners of those businesses permit it. The same goes for offices: If your office allows you to go mask-free for part or all the time, you may.
But there is a big caveat: If you are unvaccinated, you must still wear a mask whenever you are in a public space, according to city regulations. About 86 percent of adult New York City residents, and 76 percent of residents of all ages, are fully vaccinated.
Where are masks required elsewhere in New York State?
Like New York City, New York State has had multiple mask mandates in place through much of the pandemic. Many of those rules remain in place.
Masks are still required in health care and adult care facilities, nursing homes, in homeless shelters and in correctional facilities when social distancing is not possible. Masks are also still required in all schools serving students from pre-K to 12th grade.
While she said she was not yet ready to lift the school mask mandate, which is based on a regulation that is set to expire on Feb. 21, Governor Hochul said Wednesday that schools would distribute at-home test kits before the upcoming midwinter break to help gauge infection levels.
She said she would make a decision about the mask rules upon students’ return to school, by the first week of March, and that she would base it on data.
“This fight is not over,” she said, “but the trends are very, very positive.”
Following federal rules, masks are also required on public transportation and in train stations, airports and other transport hubs. And localities and businesses are also free to impose their own mask requirements.
But in locations where they do not, masks can come off. That includes movie theaters, bowling alleys, stores, restaurants and offices, if the owners and localities allow it.
There is also no longer a state requirement to show proof of vaccination before masks can be removed. Localities may continue to set vaccination requirements, however, and businesses throughout the state may continue to ask for proof of vaccination.
SuperMatt
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I wonder about this doctor’s prediction:
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1491609678916239363/
There will be some people I know that will continue to mask until their young kids can get the vaccine. Most others that are vaccinated will probably keep a mask around, to be used in crowded areas... or maybe just in case a local business requires it.
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1491609678916239363/
There will be some people I know that will continue to mask until their young kids can get the vaccine. Most others that are vaccinated will probably keep a mask around, to be used in crowded areas... or maybe just in case a local business requires it.
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That will definitely be the case in Silicon Valley. Nobody wants to get sick or to bring home the disease and get their family sick. So most of those who have been doing what they are supposed to will continue to wear masks indoors until the infection rate goes down a bunch more. I suspect we’ll see less masking outdoors, though, and more eating out at restaurants (where people who rigidly follow the rules still somehow think you are immune from covid).
A colleague of mine from NY, triple vaxxed, who had already been infected in March 2020, just had his whole household catch covid from their four year old son who got it at school. My colleague has been sick in bed for 4 days. He felt well enough on the 2nd day to attend a zoom meeting, but since then he’s been missing. He said it was far worse than the flu, and the whole family has been in bad shape. Who’s looking for that when simply wearing an N95 when around other people can mitigate your chances of getting it?
MEJHarrison
Site Champ
Exactly. They're going to lift restrictions when the risk gets low, not when the risk is gone. People will still get this after restrictions are lifted and will still die. I plan to do everything I can not to be in that group that jumps too soon.
Eric
Mama's lil stinker
And they say the virus will never go away so the risk will always be there. I just plan on wearing a mask in public in the foreseeable future and getting the latest vaccines when it's available, accepting the fact that we'll always have to live with it to some extent. Hopefully we won't see anymore heinous variants and can come to some sort of equilibrium.
MEJHarrison
Site Champ
That's very true. But when they lift restrictions, I suspect it will still be much riskier than getting the flu for example. I could be wrong, but I think we're a long ways off, restrictions or not, from it being "safe" out there generally speaking. So I'll just keep being careful till I feel silly walking around in a mask all the time.
Eric
Mama's lil stinker
Agreed, I'll be wearing my N95 any time I'm out regardless of what they say. At least with a cold or a flu its seasonal so you know to prepare but who knows with this thing.That's very true. But when they lift restrictions, I suspect it will still be much riskier than getting the flu for example. I could be wrong, but I think we're a long ways off, restrictions or not, from it being "safe" out there generally speaking. So I'll just keep being careful till I feel silly walking around in a mask all the time.
That's exactly what happened.
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This. They are probably gambling that they won't lose any left leaning voters by ending the mandate now while reducing the blowback from anti-mask patriots come voting time. Feb - Nov is an eternity in attention span to outrage.
Democrats don't have much else to hang their hats on currently to convince voters they should remain in office or be given more say. Might as well work on pissing off the other side less. Other than that, Trump being Trump is Democrats' best friend for getting them votes.
Herdfan
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The WaPo seems to think it is Political Science over real science as well:
www.politico.com
Masks off? Democrats try for a pandemic pivot
The party's governors are ditching them. Its swing-state lawmakers are ready to follow. But not everyone agrees, and it may be too little, too late.
www.politico.com
Herdfan
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Where are the left-leaning voters going to go?
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Flavor Town?
I'm just saying there are probably some voters unhappy with Trump's Covid response as their main reason to not vote for him. Then Biden came at it from the other direction, which those voters might have been happy with initially but it might be starting to wear thin with them. I think there are also some voters on the left who have done their part thus far but they'd like to see more of an end game in sight. I think a period of throwing caution to the wind is going to be unavoidable.
Eric
Mama's lil stinker
I can tell you where they won't be and that's the hospital on a ventilator. Imagine spending all those years in medical school just to care for a bunch of pissed off selfish Trump supporters who refused to vaccinate. When all is said and done here they may need to re-think their hippocratic oath.
D
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I guess my question is: what's happening in states like Florida, where no one wears a mask and the state government has basically decided the pandemic isn't a thing? Are they having significantly higher case rates and deaths or is it about the same? Do these restrictions and mandates actually work?
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