Electric Vehicles: General topics

[cloudflare420]

No x.25 yet. Maybe they’re not rolling out to vision-only cars yet?

 

[quagmire]

No x.25 yet. Maybe they’re not rolling out to vision-only cars yet?

Both mine and @DT vehicles are vision only and got the update.

I am actually hoping 44.25 is a merging of the radar and vision branches ever since Vision became a thing in May. Vision cars always seemed to lag 1-2 months and 2-3 versions before getting caught up.

 

[cloudflare420]

Is it just me or has the functionality gotten worse? It requires more taps for basic functions like the wipers.

 

[Eric]

Wanted to get your guys' thoughts on full self-driving for the Tesla, I know some here have mentioned not getting it and we know we can subscribe for $199 per month when needed, I have friends doing this as well. However, they seemed to have made a conscious decision to incrementally raise the price of it, it was only $7000 in 2019 and now it's $10,000 with a guaranteed price increase in 2022 as well.

I have chosen to go without for now and will subscribe if/when I feel like I need it. The standard auto pilot will work for my needs from what I can see but I'll keep watching up until I get my VIN and may change my mind if it seems compelling enough.

 

[Eric]

The best and most practical use of Tesla technology I've seen yet.

 

[JayMysteri0]

A 2013 Tesla Model S adorned with 66 pounds of dynamite

Finnish Man Blows Up Tesla Car Instead of Replacing Battery

A Tesla repair shop told a Model S owner that replacing the battery would cost more than $22,600. He decided to stick 66 pounds of dynamite on the car.

gizmodo.com

There are times in life when you have to chose between paying a boatload of money or watching a very big explosion. Well, not really, but Finnish man Tuomas Katainen sure did. Katainen is a 2013 Tesla Model S owner who was told he would have to pay more than $22,600 to replace the battery on his car. For him, it apparently wasn’t worth it, so he decided to team up with a YouTuber to blow up his Model S with 66 pounds (30 kilograms) of dynamite instead.

According to Katainen, his Model S ran “excellent” for the first 932 miles (1,500 kilometers) after he bought it, but then the error codes started to appear. He sent his car to a Tesla dealer’s repair shop, where it remained for about a month, and was told they couldn’t do anything for his car. His only option would be to replace the entire battery, which would cost more than $22,600, and he would have to ask Tesla permission to carry out the repair.

To put this in perspective, $22,600 would go a long way to buying another used 2013 Model S in Finland, which appear to sell for more than $42,900. But Katainen decides that’s not for him, proving that there is indeed a thin line between logic, rage, and insanity.

“So I told them I’m coming to pick up the Tesla,” he said in the video. “Now I’m going to explode the whole car away.”

In the fascinating video, which features a dummy of Tesla CEO Elon Musk that’s dropped from a helicopter and ends with the very big explosion of Katainen’s Model S, Pommijätkät asks Katainen what is better: a working Tesla or exploding the car with 66 pounds of dynamite?

“Sort of both,” he said. “Maybe more explosion.”

 

[Cmaier]

A 2013 Tesla Model S adorned with 66 pounds of dynamite

As an owner of a 2013 Model S, this depresses me, and now I’m paranoid about the battery.

 

[User.45]

As an owner of a 2013 Model S, this depresses me, and now I’m paranoid about the battery.

Yeah, I'd not trust Tesla with any of this. Also, Model S/X are also full of proprietary parts and are a mechanic's worst nightmare reportedly. Model 3/Y simplified greatly, but per a friend of mine who contracted with Tesla in the earlier days, the body isn't going to be very durable on M3 either.

 

[cloudflare420]

Wanted to get your guys' thoughts on full self-driving for the Tesla, I know some here have mentioned not getting it and we know we can subscribe for $199 per month when needed, I have friends doing this as well. However, they seemed to have made a conscious decision to incrementally raise the price of it, it was only $7000 in 2019 and now it's $10,000 with a guaranteed price increase in 2022 as well.

I have chosen to go without for now and will subscribe if/when I feel like I need it. The standard auto pilot will work for my needs from what I can see but I'll keep watching up until I get my VIN and may change my mind if it seems compelling enough.

Do not pay for FSD, I repeat, DO NOT waste your money on FSD.

The vision-only AutoPilot doesn’t even work most of the time. I can’t imagine trying to let it drive you around.

 

[User.45]

Wanted to get your guys' thoughts on full self-driving for the Tesla, I know some here have mentioned not getting it and we know we can subscribe for $199 per month when needed, I have friends doing this as well. However, they seemed to have made a conscious decision to incrementally raise the price of it, it was only $7000 in 2019 and now it's $10,000 with a guaranteed price increase in 2022 as well.

I have chosen to go without for now and will subscribe if/when I feel like I need it. The standard auto pilot will work for my needs from what I can see but I'll keep watching up until I get my VIN and may change my mind if it seems compelling enough.

Do not pay for FSD, I repeat, DO NOT waste your money on FSD.

The vision-only AutoPilot doesn’t even work most of the time. I can’t imagine trying to let it drive you around.

I second that based on a 4 day, 800Mi roadtrip. 10K is a lot of money for something you'll have a difficult time learning to trust. Based on some of the jerkiness, I would not let it drive in the city. CNN had a very similar experience with it https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/18/cars/tesla-full-self-driving-brooklyn/index.html

For long stretches of HW driving, adaptive cruise control with lane keep is just fine.

 

[Eric]

Do not pay for FSD, I repeat, DO NOT waste your money on FSD.

The vision-only AutoPilot doesn’t even work most of the time. I can’t imagine trying to let it drive you around.

I second that based on a 4 day, 800Mi roadtrip. 10K is a lot of money for something you'll have a difficult time learning to trust. Based on some of the jerkiness, I would not let it drive in the city. CNN had a very similar experience with it https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/18/cars/tesla-full-self-driving-brooklyn/index.html

For long stretches of HW driving, adaptive cruise control with lane keep is just fine.

Okay, this is how I am leaning as well. Just a couple of questions on this, does it allow you to keep your hands off the wheel for longer periods of time when stuck in really slow stop and go traffic? My BMW did this and it was a great feature. Also, anyone using counterweights to prevent nags at freeway speeds?

 

[User.45]

Okay, this is how I am leaning as well. Just a couple of questions on this, does it allow you to keep your hands off the wheel for longer periods of time when stuck in really slow stop and go traffic? My BMW did this and it was a great feature. Also, anyone using counterweights to prevent nags at freeway speeds?

Not sure about the stop and go behavior. As @quagmire told me you can inactivate the wheel alarm by scrolling the scrollwheel. Otherwise holding the wheel is insufficient, youll need to jerk it a little to register. It also punishes you if you fail to demonstrate hands in wheel: inacivates AP until next stop, LOL.

Would never temper with stuff like this. The system demanding your attention is because it really needs it.

I think the stop and go performance was decent, but bear in mind, EVs accelerate really fast without a warning roar from your engine, so the solution is to turn on the slowest acceleration setting (Chill mode on m3) that way you don’t have to be on higb alert.

 

[SuperMatt]

Yeah, I'd not trust Tesla with any of this. Also, Model S/X are also full of proprietary parts and are a mechanic's worst nightmare reportedly. Model 3/Y simplified greatly, but per a friend of mine who contracted with Tesla in the earlier days, the body isn't going to be very durable on M3 either.

Tesla’s biggest advantages: Being one of the first, the charging network, and the “cool factor.”

They still have #2. Once standard chargers become ubiquitous, they will be competing based on the vehicle itself. And others are making some very nice, and more affordable, EVs right now.

 

[Eric]

Not sure about the stop and go behavior. As @quagmire told me you can inactivate the wheel alarm by scrolling the scrollwheel. Otherwise holding the wheel is insufficient, youll need to jerk it a little to register. It also punishes you if you fail to demonstrate hands in wheel: inacivates AP until next stop, LOL.

Would never temper with stuff like this. The system demanding your attention is because it really needs it.

I think the stop and go performance was decent, but bear in mind, EVs accelerate really fast without a warning roar from your engine, so the solution is to turn on the slowest acceleration setting (Chill mode on m3) that way you don’t have to be on higb alert.

The BMW has capacitive touch so it's different from this, apparently. All you have to do is touch the wheel but it must be done with your hand, just as you would an iPhone screen and there is no tricking it short of a complex system. I get the whole debate over whether you should or shouldn't but that's not what I'm after, I simply want to know whether or not it works, even if I choose not to use it.

If the safety systems are more of a pain in the ass to maintain by playing big brother than I would simply rather not have them, let alone pay extra for it.

Also, how long between nags at freeway speeds would you guess and are they noticeably different in slower stop and go traffic?

 

[quagmire]

DO NOT USE COUNTERWEIGHTS OR ANY OTHER DEFEAT DEVICES!

The nags have gotten worse due to idiots who do. You want to treat a L2 automation system as a L5, just don't use it.

Anyway, autopilot has handled stop and go relatively well. It accelerates a bit aggressively sometimes, but overall fine. I have follow distance set to 7( furtherest out). All the steering wheel needs is some resistance as it tries to steer and it won't nag you as that is telling the system you're still paying attention. Other wise the nag seems to be every 40-60 seconds.

 

[Eric]

DO NOT USE COUNTERWEIGHTS OR ANY OTHER DEFEAT DEVICES!

The nags have gotten worse due to idiots who do. You want to treat a L2 automation system as a L5, just don't use it.

Anyway, autopilot has handled stop and go relatively well. It accelerates a bit aggressively sometimes, but overall fine. I have follow distance set to 7( furtherest out). All the steering wheel needs is some resistance as it tries to steer and it won't nag you as that is telling the system you're still paying attention. Other wise the nag seems to be every 40-60 seconds.

I've been reading that the fact that you have to actually pull on the wheel can force it out of autopilot, to the point that some people have stopped using it entirely. I'll have to try this out for myself but if feels like I'm fighting (or must circumvent) the car in order to have this functionality then I'll probably not use it all together, it's sounding like a disappointment over my BMW.

Yes, I have my hands on the wheel at all times anyway but I never had to forcibly move it before. In addition the whole thing with watching eye movement is another big brother move that seems unnecessary, Tesla is like the MacRumors of cars, watching your every move for the slightest mistake.

 

[User.45]

I've been reading that the fact that you have to actually pull on the wheel can force it out of autopilot, to the point that some people have stopped using it entirely. I'll have to try this out for myself but if feels like I'm fighting (or must circumvent) the car in order to have this functionality then I'll probably not use it all together, it's sounding like a disappointment over my BMW.

Yes, I have my hands on the wheel at all times anyway but I never had to forcibly move it before. In addition the whole thing with watching eye movement is another big brother move that seems unnecessary, Tesla is like the MacRumors of cars, watching your every move for the slightest mistake.

Using the scroll wheel is enough for the system to consider you paying attention. Agree with quagmire, acceleration can be a little too aggressive, but again the solution is to put it in chill mode so so you have more time to react if needed. I essentially do the same thing on My BMW.

 

[Eric]

Using the scroll wheel is enough for the system to consider you paying attention. Agree with quagmire, acceleration can be a little too aggressive, but again the solution is to put it in chill mode so so you have more time to react if needed. I essentially do the same thing on My BMW.

Yeah, I found my BMW did the same with acceleration and it can be pretty freaky. Mine is gone now but I didn't know there was the equivalent of chill mode on the BMW but probably missed it somewhere. I know the Traffic Jam Assist (basically anything under somewhere around 37 MPH) is an awesome feature, nags way less and basically lets you kick it in stop and go traffic, IMO perfectly designed.

 

[quagmire]

I've been reading that the fact that you have to actually pull on the wheel can force it out of autopilot, to the point that some people have stopped using it entirely. I'll have to try this out for myself but if feels like I'm fighting (or must circumvent) the car in order to have this functionality then I'll probably not use it all together, it's sounding like a disappointment over my BMW.

Yes, I have my hands on the wheel at all times anyway but I never had to forcibly move it before. In addition the whole thing with watching eye movement is another big brother move that seems unnecessary, Tesla is like the MacRumors of cars, watching your every move for the slightest mistake.

Yeah pull too hard AP will disengage( it assumes you need control). But the mere act of holding it doesn't let the system know. There is no touch sensors in the wheel. It relies on resistance/torque on the wheel. So if you're holding it, but providing no resistance as the wheel turns, it doesn't register as you're paying attention. Get it right, it will never nag you. Or else it will require a quick jiggle of the wheel or the scroll wheel to adjust volume. It's something I have gotten use to.

 

[Eric]

Yeah pull too hard AP will disengage( it assumes you need control). But the mere act of holding it doesn't let the system know. There is no touch sensors in the wheel. It relies on resistance/torque on the wheel. So if you're holding it, but providing no resistance as the wheel turns, it doesn't register as you're paying attention. Get it right, it will never nag you. Or else it will require a quick jiggle of the wheel or the scroll wheel to adjust volume. It's something I have gotten use to.

I was able to get one much sooner because they had the exact same model with my specs at a nearby dealership, it seems like a lot of people back out of their purchases, the only difference is the color is blue and I had to pay the extra $1000 for that.

I drove it about 80 miles in heavy traffic and got a feel for the autopilot system and all I can say is that it's worlds above and beyond the BMW system. First, it never lost the lines a single time, the BMW lost them about 1/4 of the time on this same drive. The nags are completely reasonable and I was surprised at how long until it finally kicked in and when it did, the nudge was really simple to reset. I see absolutely no need to circumvent this at all, it's clearly designed really well.

It's a pleasure to drive and was just as smooth as my 2020 5 series BMW. There are a lot of controls to learn so I'll take my time working with it although it's currently installing an update to 2021.44.25.2 and I'm not sure if it will change the screen significantly but it's probably a good time anyway as I'm still learning it.

The acceleration was shocking, man I can't see how something like that is even legal, it literally slammed my head back pinned me to the seat in a second flat and I don't think this is even the sporty version of the car, it's the long range.

So far I'm pretty amazed with all of it, it's definitely next level and I can see why there are so many on the road. Plus, I've never had an easier experience purchasing a car, took all of 20 minutes and I just picked the car up with the cards in it and my phone already paired, didn't even have to go into the dealership.