Electric Vehicles: General topics

[Nycturne]

I was reading a review of a Solterra in which they said that they were driving west on I-70 (from Denver) and at one point the range gauge dropped more than 50 miles over a distance of less than 8. This would have been while approaching the Eisenhower tunnel – in other words, climbing a significant grade at freeway speeds.

It’s been a while since I‘ve been there, but that’s definitely going to be a doozy for any EV. Someone did a towing test with an ID.4 along that stretch, I believe:

This got me to wondering, if one goes up the hill at a slower clip, will you get better range than at freeway speeds? Because, the idea of your battery giving out in the tunnel seems like it could be less fun. If you are making an ascent, is there a particular speed that will get you over, such that slightly faster would not?

I guess it depends on how deep into the math you want to get. Energy spent during the climb is some mix of drag + elevation, so it’s a matter of knowing what the contributions are and if you cut down drag by say 50%, what’s the total percentage you cut down on your energy spend?

 

[Yoused]

I guess it depends on how deep into the math you want to get.

Well, AIUI, Cx is quadratic, so going from 40 to 60 a little more than doubles your wind load. Going 40 would probably not nomally double the range vs going 60, but pulling a trailer it might, and the Interstate tends to be a pretty wide open space as far as wind drag.

 

[rdrr]

Hertz has decided to sell off 20,000 EV vehicles from its fleet to replace with ICE vehicles.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

 

[Yoused]

They are getting rid of the cars because sales demand is plateauing. Presumably they are concerned about being able to turn the cars over at the proper time. But I think EVs should be viewed as having a longer life cycle than ICE cars, so their standard turn-over metric might need to be adjusted.

 

[fischersd]

Are the replacement batteries considerably cheaper in the US? 1 year old Hyundai - replacement battery would cost more than what the car cost on the sticker (so, considerably more than current market value).

EV Written Off

 

[Yoused]

Are the replacement batteries considerably cheaper in the US?

No, of course not. Business is about selling stuff. If it is possible to fix the stuff, not as much of it can be sold, so all manner of marketplace protocol and regulation is tilted toward don't fix it – buy a new one.

The article you linked says that it cost more than the price of the car to replace the battery pack, so it was totalled. But that is somewhat misleading. Around here, the totalling threshold is not the value of the vehicle, nor even half its value, but more like 20%. If you have a 5-year-old car, you bump something firmly and the airbag deploys, that is such an expensive repair that, even if there is no other damage to the car, it can get totalled. (In fact, for lesser damage, you might be better off not reporting it but just fixing out-of-pocket, so that your car does not get totalled for no good reason.)

The other bit of silliness is that a battery pack is made of scores or thousands of homogenous elements (cells), but they are arranged as one big unit and the cells do not work well if they are not all in the same condition. If one small cell goes bad, the whole thing is toast. It may not actually have to be like that, though. It seems like a pack could be designed using sequenced modules, so that an element failure would affect an independent module instead of the whole pack. But, may I am just an idiot.

 

[Nycturne]

The other bit of silliness is that a battery pack is made of scores or thousands of homogenous elements (cells), but they are arranged as one big unit and the cells do not work well if they are not all in the same condition. If one small cell goes bad, the whole thing is toast. It may not actually have to be like that, though. It seems like a pack could be designed using sequenced modules, so that an element failure would affect an independent module instead of the whole pack. But, may I am just an idiot.

Not just you. I know VW’s MEB platform is setup such that the individual modules can be swapped in pairs. Many of the non-Tesla packs are built to be at least built from independent modules, but that doesn’t mean they are all equally repairable.

One thing that makes this confusing is that Hyundai Canada was also a bit perplexed at what happened here as they weren’t even in the loop. Seems like the dealer doing the work quoted two figures (the second was twice the first, and given to the insurance company). Hyundai is pushing to be consulted on these sorts of repairs first in response to this.

 

[Yoused]

I am not sure if it would be practically doable, but what would make sense to me would be a 16 module powerpack that the owner could handle. If weight could be not a major issue somehow, each module would be around 80 pounds, for an 80KWh power supply, which would be around 300 miles for a medium-size vehicle. The owner would be able to remove some of the modules, so that the vehicle would not be as heavy, and thus be somewhat more efficient.

4 modules would provide around 80+ miles, which would serve for a day around town or a commute. Meanwhile, some of the others could be slow charging at home and could be swapped for the ones in the car (probably using some sort of dolly/carrier). On Saturday, the other twelve modules might get put in, for that trip up to the lake.

I am not sure whether modular like that could be done without a significant weight penalty, but it sure does sound appealing.

 

[diamond.g]

Hertz has decided to sell off 20,000 EV vehicles from its fleet to replace with ICE vehicles.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

They are selling them for a song (or so I hear).

 

[theorist9]

Hertz has decided to sell off 20,000 EV vehicles from its fleet to replace with ICE vehicles.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

"'Expenses related to collision and damage, primarily associated with EVs, remained high in the quarter,' Hertz said in a regulatory filing on Thursday."

That's not surprising—you've got a vehicle that looks like a family car, but accelerates like an exotic, so some of those renting these are going to get themselves into trouble.

 

[Herdfan]

"'Expenses related to collision and damage, primarily associated with EVs, remained high in the quarter,' Hertz said in a regulatory filing on Thursday."

That's not surprising—you've got a vehicle that looks like a family car, but accelerates like an exotic, so some of those renting these are going to get themselves into trouble.

I thought Hertz dumped all its EV's?

 

[theorist9]

I thought Hertz dumped all its EV's?

Yeah, Hertz is dumping them, and gave the excessive number of front-end collisions as a reason why. I was offering an explanation for why they're seeing those high collision rates

 

[theorist9]

Hertz has decided to sell off 20,000 EV vehicles from its fleet to replace with ICE vehicles.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

Ironic, given their name.

There's also an Ohm Car Rental. I wonder if they'll be dumping EV's as well:

ohmcarrental.com

ohmcarrental.com

 

[Herdfan]

Yeah, Hertz is dumping them, and gave the excessive number of front-end collisions as a reason why. I was offering an explanation for why they're seeing those high collision rates

I'm kind of surprised there is no way to limit their acceleration via software.

Or course, with EV's they can't make a fortune selling $9.99/gallon gas when you don't bring it back full.

 

[theorist9]

I'm kind of surprised there is no way to limit their acceleration via software.

They said they limited the torque, but either they didn't limit it enough, or there were too many people interested in testing out the max acceleration because of EV's reputation, so you got reckless driver behavior regardless.

Or course, with EV's they can't make a fortune selling $9.99/gallon gas when you don't bring it back full.

Unless they also charge an exorbitant price for recharging. Never rented an EV, so don't know how they handle it.

 

[diamond.g]

I'm kind of surprised there is no way to limit their acceleration via software.

Or course, with EV's they can't make a fortune selling $9.99/gallon gas when you don't bring it back full.

They said they limited the torque, but either they didn't limit it enough, or there were too many people interested in testing out the max acceleration because of EV's reputation, so you got reckless driver behavior regardless.

Yeah I can't speak for other EV's but I know Tesla's chill mode really nerfs the acceleration. I think speed limit mode also lowers the acceleration but maybe not as much as chill mode.

 

[AG_PhamD]

I’m not a huge EV fan, mainly due to practicality limitations living in a city and the immense cost of getting charging installed. I’m generally less of a hybrid fan considering the extra complication involved- my general thought is it’s better to just have full ICE or BEV.

I’m actually somewhat strongly considering a new S60 or XC60 T8/Recharge to replace my BMW 535 xdrive. The new version of these get about 35mi in battery-only mode. My daily commute is only 6 miles each way- mostly stop and go. The Volvos use a FWD engine setup with a motor for the rear axel, which seems less complicated than trying to mesh the two power sources through a gearbox- so perhaps better mechanical reliability longterm, at least in theory. The second generation of this system is supposedly much improved.

It turns out I have 20amp 120v service in my garage, meaning overnight recharging is entirely within reason for a plug in hybrid. Adding high amp charging service would be a major investment and complicated given the arrangement of living in a multi-unit brownstone with the power utility coming in through the front of the building while the garages are connected in the rear.

Unfortunately Volvo stopped offering the T6/B6 engine (4cyl turbo + supercharger) on these models and the only way to get a power bump now is getting the plug in hybrid. I wish they still offered the 6-cyl twin turbo T6 used in my wife’s previous gen S60 in their cars- it’s a great engine. Plenty of power, less stressed than a 4cyl, and less complicated than using twin-charging. My only gripe with it is the turning radius limitations throwing a transverse inline 6 into a smaller sedan.

Or I settle for less power with the B5 or buy a 2023 B6. I guess it’s a matter of how complicated a drivetrain I wish to live with.

 

[Yoused]

The Volvos use a FWD engine setup with a motor for the rear axel, which seems less complicated than trying to mesh the two power sources through a gearbox- so perhaps better mechanical reliability longterm, at least in theory.

Not really, though. The common planetary-gear hybrid is actually less mechnically complicated than what you desribe. The ICE drives the ring gear and the electric motor drives the sun gear, the output going through the planet-gear-cage. The particular elegance to it is that the electric motor controls the backload on the transmission, giving you a natural CVT. It could realistically even be done without computer control. In the two-drive arrangement (which, yes, does provide AWD), the ICE still has to have some sort of transmission, which will necessarily be more complicated than the dual-drive hybrid design and probably require the extra weight of a torque convertor, which the dual-drive hybrid design does not need.

 

[Cmaier]

Tesla reportedly abandons plans to make a less expensive $25,000 electric vehicle

The affordable Tesla is no more.

www.theverge.com

So much for the imaginary $25k Tesla. Good luck with “robotaxis” Elon.

And as far as this goes:

 

[Eric]

Tesla reportedly abandons plans to make a less expensive $25,000 electric vehicle

The affordable Tesla is no more.

www.theverge.com

So much for the imaginary $25k Tesla. Good luck with “robotaxis” Elon.

And as far as this goes:

View attachment 28928

They just gave me (and I'm assuming everyone) FSD for a month and I have the same attitude. "Keep your hands on the wheel, eyes forward at all times, essentially drive the car manually" but let the car drive for you.

It's just nonsensical and pointless, I can't even reach into my glove compartment without it sounding alarms, this tech should be helping you out, not penalizing you. Frankly, you're far safer with all of these automations turned off.