Electric Vehicles: General topics

[Nycturne]

There is. If you’re a charger network and get US funding, it’s CCS for you. The problem is that CCS is sucky (both from a form factor and a convenience perspective), and this is like when the EU mandated that everything use micro-USB.

What's the convenience perspective issue with CCS?

 

[Cmaier]

What's the convenience perspective issue with CCS?

Having lurked in various EV forums for awhile now, I’ve learned that the seamless Tesla supercharger experience is not replicated when CCS users charge at CCS chargers. At tesla I roll up, hit the button on the charge handle, the charge door pops open and I can charge. That’s it. I don’t have to enter credentials, or use an app, supply a credit card, or do anything. This is supposedly possible with CCS, and apparently it sometimes even works. But I see just tons and tons of posts from people who have to reboot their phone twice, call the charger company, muck around in settings, screw around with dashboard controls, or whatever, to actually get it to work.

I also notice that the BMW’s, for example, have two little doors within the outer door, that need to be manually opened - one for the DC pins and one for the AC. There’s none of that nonsense with Tesla’s connector (at least on Teslas. I suppose other manufacturers using the connector could do doors within doors, MST3K-style, if they want).

 

[Nycturne]

Having lurked in various EV forums for awhile now, I’ve learned that the seamless Tesla supercharger experience is not replicated when CCS users charge at CCS chargers. At tesla I roll up, hit the button on the charge handle, the charge door pops open and I can charge. That’s it. I don’t have to enter credentials, or use an app, supply a credit card, or do anything. This is supposedly possible with CCS, and apparently it sometimes even works.

It might be interesting to know that this experience is powered by a draft version of ISO 15118, which is the CCS communication spec. NACS seems to be settling on the final version of the spec going forward for plug and charge.

It's just that Tesla's vertical integration and head start means they beat everyone else to the punch on delivering a working version of the spec, by starting with the draft version and going from there. I have yet to see any of the other charging networks deliver P&C in the US (EU is a different story, it's rolling out there), and vehicles are equally behind the curve. It's practically a chicken/egg issue on the CCS side because of how many parties are involved, sadly.

But I see just tons and tons of posts from people who have to reboot their phone twice, call the charger company, muck around in settings, screw around with dashboard controls, or whatever, to actually get it to work.

Yeah, this is not a CCS problem, it's a charger management and design problem.

I also notice that the BMW’s, for example, have two little doors within the outer door, that need to be manually opened - one for the DC pins and one for the AC. There’s none of that nonsense with Tesla’s connector (at least on Teslas. I suppose other manufacturers using the connector could do doors within doors, MST3K-style, if they want).

Yeah, it depends on how paranoid the OEM is about water collecting in the connector. The EVs I've driven only have an extra cover for the DC pins. But this is partly what you get when your receptacle can collect water in the wrong places. That is fair.

 

[Cmaier]

And now Rivian is switching to NACS.

Rivian is the next automaker to adopt Tesla’s charging plugs

Existing Rivian owners will be able to use an adapter to charge at Superchargers.

arstechnica.com

Seems like the handwriting’s on the wall.

 

[Eric]

And now Rivian is switching to NACS.

Rivian is the next automaker to adopt Tesla’s charging plugs

Existing Rivian owners will be able to use an adapter to charge at Superchargers.

arstechnica.com

Seems like the handwriting’s on the wall.

Fine by me, can't wait to use them when I have my next non-Tesla car.

 

[Citysnaps]

Fine by me, can't wait to use them when I have my next non-Tesla car.

Any thoughts on what that might be?

 

[Eric]

Any thoughts on what that might be?

Yes, I'll probably go with whatever @Cmaier chooses since he's doing all the research.

 

[Citysnaps]

Yes, I'll probably go with whatever @Cmaier chooses since he's doing all the research.

Sounds good. I might do the same.

 

[Cmaier]

Tesla hacker discovers secret “Elon Mode” for hands-free Full Self-Driving

Elon Musk might be driving FSD hands-free.

www.theverge.com

 

[Cmaier]

Yes, I'll probably go with whatever @Cmaier chooses since he's doing all the research.

For model 3/y competitor, I like the hyundais. For model s/x, it’s still trickier, but I do like the BMW ix.

 

[Eric]

For model 3/y competitor, I like the hyundais. For model s/x, it’s still trickier, but I do like the BMW ix.

I'll probably go with the Hyundai, can't really justify the expense of a higher end car in retirement when I'm not really using it that much.

 

[diamond.g]

I'll probably go with the Hyundai, can't really justify the expense of a higher end car in retirement when I'm not really using it that much.

Hyundai said they are looking into NACS, I suspect they want to see V4 actually hit 800+V first since their charging system heavily relies on it.

 

[Yoused]

The 5-pin "NACS" makes as much sense as anything and is more compact. What I would like to know is, does the charger detect ac vs dc by sniffing the big pins, or does one of the control signals tell it what is coming in? Or both?

 

[Cmaier]

The 5-pin "NACS" makes as much sense as anything and is more compact. What I would like to know is, does the charger detect ac vs dc by sniffing the big pins, or does one of the control signals tell it what is coming in? Or both?

Negotiating using control signalling before any charging voltage is present on the big pins.

 

[Nycturne]

I'll probably go with the Hyundai, can't really justify the expense of a higher end car in retirement when I'm not really using it that much.

As much as I am meh on the Ioniq 5, I do like the look of the Ioniq 6.

 

[Cmaier]

As much as I am meh on the Ioniq 5, I do like the look of the Ioniq 6.

It’s a little weird how they haven’t come up with a consistent design language.

 

[Yoused]

The Ioniq 6 does look OK, but the screens would annoy me. I do like needle gauges and would appreciate a display that could be customised to a non-digital look. Call me when they have an oled display that only lights up what I want to see (with, maybe, buttons on the wheel to call up status info).

 

[Eric]

Wow

Toyota Touts Solid State EVs With 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

The Japanese automaker says it has found a new material that will help commercialize the elusive, long-awaited solid state battery, but it's light on details.

www.pcmag.com

Toyota Touts Solid State EVs With 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027​

 

[Cmaier]

The SAE is creating a standardized version of Tesla's EV charging plug | Engadget

Tesla’s North American Charging Standard is one step closer to becoming the de-facto electric vehicle charging system in the US..

www.engadget.com

SAE making NACS a standard. If my Tesla can hold up long enough, I’ll definitely wait and buy a non-Tesla with a Tesla port.

 

[Nycturne]

Good. I’ll trust NACS under SAE guidance more than under Tesla’s guidance, IMO.

Should help ensure that we’ll see NACS -> CCS adapters from third parties down the road that will keep cars like mine going until I actually have a need to replace it.