Exploding pagers in Lebanon

Cmaier said:
Though never 3000 at once.
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Yea, more like one at a time.
My main point was about how much C&C confusion this could create, and if that could push the IDF to try and take advantage. The missile threat could certainly motivate.
 
Huntn said:
On one hand pagers blowing up is brilliant, but on the other hand, Israel does not give a hoot about collateral damage and seems driven to get itself involved in a full fledged war. And guess who’s going to be dragged into it?? 🤔
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You are assuming Israel was involved. Likely but not proven or admitted.

Have you also said that Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. don't give a hoot about collateral damage, since what these groups do is fire hundreds of missiles directly into civilian populated areas hoping to kill as many people as possible. That is, when they don't infiltrate Israel. When they do, they slaughter civilians, including babies, take hostages and commit unspeakable acts of savagery while bragging about it to their parents. I guess you want Israel to absorb such atrocities but play nice with their enemies and not take any action - such as blowing up rocket launchers on rooftops in Gaza - in order to avoid any civilian casualties.
 
mac_in_tosh said:
You are assuming Israel was involved. Likely but not proven or admitted.

Have you also said that Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. don't give a hoot about collateral damage, since what these groups do is fire hundreds of missiles directly into civilian populated areas hoping to kill as many people as possible. That is, when they don't infiltrate Israel. When they do, they slaughter civilians, including babies, take hostages and commit unspeakable acts of savagery while bragging about it to their parents. I guess you want Israel to absorb such atrocities but play nice with their enemies and not take any action - such as blowing up rocket launchers on rooftops in Gaza - in order to avoid any civilian casualties.
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The harm that Hamas/Hezbollah cause, doesn't justify the violence caused by Israeli Airstrikes and Pager-Explosions. Our Governments recognise the international humanitarian law and should expect and demand its compliance from any ally/partner.
 
Buntschwalbe said:
The harm that Hamas/Hezbollah cause, doesn't justify the violence caused by Israeli Airstrikes and Pager-Explosions. Our Governments recognise the international humanitarian law and should expect and demand its compliance from any ally/partner.
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So Hamas commits its atrocities on Oct. 7 and vows to repeat them whenever they can, then goes back into the civilian population of Gaza and continues to fire rockets from rooftops and alleyways into Israel trying to kill as many Israelis as possible. It reportedly prevents civilians from fleeing areas of conflict. And what should Israel do to defend itself? Maybe instead of bombing a rooftop rocket launcher (after warning shots to the civilians there) Israel should sacrifice scores of soldiers by sending them into a hostile area to climb up the stairs to the roof engaging with Hamas on every floor? Tell us what alternative Israel has that would abide by humanitarian law and not be suicide.
 
I think at this point Israel has decided that most of the world is going to hate them no matter what, so let's go ahead and do whatever we need to do to defeat Hamas and Hezbollah.
 
Herdfan said:
I think at this point Israel has decided that most of the world is going to hate them no matter what, so let's go ahead and do whatever we need to do to defeat Hamas and Hezbollah.
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The word "whatever" is a stretch but yes, most of the world will automatically take the side of the Palestinians, no matter what they do to invite the problems they have. So Arab non-acceptance of the U.N. partition plan and the subsequent attack on the new state of Israel led to large numbers of Palestinian refugees. The Six Day War led to Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories. Now the savage attack on Oct. 7 led to the Israeli invasion of Gaza. There's a pattern here and of course it's natural to sympathize with the plight of ordinary Palestinians, but it's dishonest to do so without acknowledging the cause.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, which included the Israeli army forcibly removing settlers, and there were elections which Hamas won. Hamas then began to systematically murder all opposition such as the Palestinian Authority, that is while they weren't busy throwing homosexuals off of rooftops. Gaza has received billions of dollars of foreign aid but instead of using that to improve the education of its people and the infrastructure of its territory it built an extensive network of tunnels and acquired munitions with which to attack Israel. But guess who got the blame for the already miserable conditions in Gaza prior to Oct. 7.

Why is the world virtually silent about the 500,000 casualties in the Syrian civil war over the last decade and Pakistan's plan to expel 1.7 million Afghans? The answer is simple - Israel is not involved.
 
mac_in_tosh said:
Following Iran's attack on Israel, I assume college campuses will be erupting in demonstrations denouncing genocide and the targeting of civilians.
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<Pre-Amble> I believe Israel has the right to exist and defend that right. I am not Pro-Hamas, Pro-Hezbollah, or any other terrorist organization. I do believe the Palestinian population has the same right to exist. IMO there has been way too much debate on being Pro-Palestinian vs. Pro-Israeli, and hardly any discussion on Pro-Peace. </Pre-Amble>

So... Not sure what point you are trying to get at here. I totally denounce Iran's attack, but did you honestly think Israel's actions in Lebanon wasn't going to escalate the war? On top of that even Israel has stated that Iran's attack had a minimal effect, so by their own statement what type of outpouring would be appropriate?
 
rdrr said:
So... Not sure what point you are trying to get at here. I totally denounce Iran's attack, but did you honestly think Israel's actions in Lebanon wasn't going to escalate the war? On top of that even Israel has stated that Iran's attack had a minimal effect, so by their own statement what type of outpouring would be appropriate?
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Did Iran not expect Israel to do anything when it told Hezbollah to constantly bombard Israel from within Lebanon? If terrorists in Canada start shooting missiles into pennsylvania, I’m sure we would just hang out and wait for them to stop.
 
Cmaier said:
Did Iran not expect Israel to do anything when it told Hezbollah to constantly bombard Israel from within Lebanon? If terrorists in Canada start shooting missiles into pennsylvania, I’m sure we would just hang out and wait for them to stop.
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Agreed, but wasn't the Biden Administration trying to bringe together a peace deal before the pager attacks and attack on the Hezbollah underground command center? The escalation will continue until one side really is invested in peace.
 
rdrr said:
The escalation will continue until one side really is invested in peace.
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Which is not happening as long as the extremists on both sides stay in power. And if only one side is invested in peace, it remains too easy for the other to torpedo the process.
And since every turn of the conflict screw reinforces extremists on both sides, this will not happen before I expire, even without me holding my breath.
 
rdrr said:
Agreed, but wasn't the Biden Administration trying to bringe together a peace deal before the pager attacks and attack on the Hezbollah underground command center? The escalation will continue until one side really is invested in peace.
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There was no reason for Israel to agree to the proposed deal, because Biden will be gone shortly. Biden can’t make any promises, nor even any threats - if he threatens to withhold arms, for example, there’s a good chance Trump will get elected and triple arms shipments to Israel.

In any event, Hezbollah should have kept out of it, but they didn’t. Iran should have kept out of it, but they didn’t. And Hamas should have stayed home, but they didn’t. Israel will react to each such even the way that Israel always does.
 
cbum said:
Which is not happening as long as the extremists on both sides stay in power. And if only one side is invested in peace, it remains too easy for the other to torpedo the process.
And since every turn of the conflict screw reinforces extremists on both sides, this will not happen before I expire, even without me holding my breath.
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Again it takes one side to commit to it, but as you said it's not going to happen. However, then why should we be surprised that escalation is going to happen when one side attacks another? Note, that there cannot be many more upticks in the back and forth until there is an all out regional war, with a high probability that it will turn into a much graver world situation.
 
In response to Iran's recent ballistic missile attack, I can see Israel taking out the military side of Mehrabad International airport in Tehran. And perhaps other Iranian bases as well.

They have around 40 US F-14s (from when the Shah was in power), a bunch of ancient US F-4s, Russian/Soviet Mig-29s and Su-24s, some Chinese fighters, and assorted other military aircraft (US C-130 cargo planes, etc). Not all at Mehrabad, but still a good number.

It would send an excellent message, being in Tehran, and deep into Iran. It would also seriously degrade their ability to defend their airspace should Iran choose to mess with Israel even further. And if carefully planned, civilian casualties could be minimized - a big plus optics-wise.
 
rdrr said:
Agreed, but wasn't the Biden Administration trying to bringe together a peace deal before the pager attacks and attack on the Hezbollah underground command center? The escalation will continue until one side really is invested in peace.
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I like to imagine what history would be like if the Arabs accepted the U.N. partition plan, in which Israel was given a smaller portion consisting mostly of desert and swamps. But they didn't, and as I have already pointed out much of the succeeding predicament of ordinary Palestinians is the result of successive attempts to destroy Israel. So there's a long history of one side not being invested in peace.

WTF does Iran have to do with Israel? Why is it so antagonist toward Israel? Please don't tell me that they're risking outright war just to help the poor Palestinians. Iran is run by religious fanatics. They, and their lackeys in Hezbollah want to establish a global caliphate and they view Israel as a possibly vulnerable first impediment to that goal. I knew several Iranian student when I was in school. They were all decent people and it's a shame that their country was taken over by these fanatics.
 
rdrr said:
Not sure what point you are trying to get at here. I totally denounce Iran's attack, but did you honestly think Israel's actions in Lebanon wasn't going to escalate the war? On top of that even Israel has stated that Iran's attack had a minimal effect, so by their own statement what type of outpouring would be appropriate?
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I was being sarcastic since the outrage only seem to happen when Israel does something, but never when another country attacks Israel irregardless of the actual effect or even when Arabs commit violence against other Arabs e.g. the civil war in Syria. The mindset of these demonstrators is Palestinians=good, Israelis=bad. They are woefully ignorant of the history of the region, most laughably illustrated by Queers for Palestine who would be killed if they stepped foot in Gaza.

Did you honestly think that Hezbollah firing large numbers of missiles into Israel wasn't going to escalate the situation?
 

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