FBI executed search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

[rdrr]

Did I read last night or am I hallucinating that Trump's lawyers claim they won't give their accounts of declassification until they get his property back (including the top secret documents)? My guess is that he doesn't know entirely what documents he had, and wants to get them back because he wants to just say, "yes these are all declassified."

 

[Pumbaa]

Did I read last night or am I hallucinating that Trump's lawyers claim they won't give their accounts of declassification until they get his property back (including the top secret documents)? My guess is that he doesn't know entirely what documents he had, and wants to get them back because he wants to just say, "yes these are all declassified."

Or he knew what he stole but doesn’t know which documents the FBI actually found.

It would really suck for him to list a bunch of documents he supposedly declassified and held at Mar-a-Lago only for some of them to be missing/not part of the seized ones.

 

[lizkat]

Or he knew what he stole but doesn’t know which documents the FBI actually found.

It would really suck for him to list a bunch of documents he supposedly declassified and held at Mar-a-Lago only for some of them to be missing/not part of the seized ones.

Declassification does have methods and procedures even if it is possible for a sitting President to devise differences in some of those approaches. Out of office now, Trump cannot find a safe way to suggest that he did something like that, and in any case some of the retrieved material is extremely problematic to him simply because its restricted access was not even a matter of its "classification" per se.

Those engaged or appointed to assist Trump had better know the law and also look to their careers here, or else this bunch of shenanigans is going to end up with a longer list of disbarred lawyers than occurred during Watergate. Plus maybe at least one disgraced or impeached judge, if Cannon doesn't quit trying to serve two masters. Someone should tell her that so far the rule of law has prevailed in Trump's efforts to overturn an election, therefore why should it go differently over matters of stolen documents with the reek of potential espionage about their handling.

Sure Trump deserves due process but not at the expense of trying to demonstrate that he is above our rule of law or has special extrajudicial rights vis a vis DoJ or FBI, etc. Malarkey. If he doesn't like what's going to happen in some of these cases where he has helped walk himself into a legal cul-de-sac, let him exercise his right to leave the country while he still has it. If he still has it. Does he still have it?

 

[rdrr]

Declassification does have methods and procedures even if it is possible for a sitting President to devise differences in some of those approaches. Out of office now, Trump cannot find a safe way to suggest that he did something like that, and in any case some of the retrieved material is extremely problematic to him simply because its restricted access was not even a matter of its "classification" per se.

Those engaged or appointed to assist Trump had better know the law and also look to their careers here, or else this bunch of shenanigans is going to end up with a longer list of disbarred lawyers than occurred during Watergate. Plus maybe at least one disgraced or impeached judge, if Cannon doesn't quit trying to serve two masters. Someone should tell her that so far the rule of law has prevailed in Trump's efforts to overturn an election, therefore why should it go differently over matters of stolen documents with the reek of potential espionage about their handling.

Sure Trump deserves due process but not at the expense of trying to demonstrate that he is above our rule of law or has special extrajudicial rights vis a vis DoJ or FBI, etc. Malarkey. If he doesn't like what's going to happen in some of these cases where he has helped walk himself into a legal cul-de-sac, let him exercise his right to leave the country while he still has it. If he still has it. Does he still have it?

You are talking about his legal jeopardy. I was thinking, he wants them back to so he can say to his lemmings "oh, I declassified everything about X, Y, and Z. By waving my magic wand" Trump is playing the game of public opinion.

Edit: An amicus brief has been filed by 10 former GOP officials. I guess Trump has called in some favors.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The best simple explanation I’ve heard of why things are playing out the way they are is the system is setup to protect people like Trump. We just haven’t seen it played out so publicly and with one of the biggest public whiners ever born as the defendant.

The biggest irony, as most things in ass-backward Trump world, is he loves to whine about a rigged system when the rigged system is exactly what has benefitted him his entire life.

 

[lizkat]

You are talking about his legal jeopardy. I was thinking, he wants them back to so he can say to his lemmings "oh, I declassified everything about X, Y, and Z. By waving my magic wand" Trump is playing the game of public opinion.

Edit: An amicus brief has been filed by 10 former GOP officials. I guess Trump has called in some favors.

Of course he plays to his followers. All he thinks about is "How do I look? Super powerful?"

As for the GOP officials' amicus brief: ugh... why are they still groveling before Trump? Can it all just be about trying to score votes in midterms? Who the heck knows how many of the MAGA cultists actually vote?

Anyway they risk going on record as anything but the law'n'order party. Can they not imagine how it would look to have argued in favor of a guy who might have scarfed up some sensitive info he may have thought to sell? Or just figuring the odds favor sticking with him until the midterms and then "discovering" ugly facts in already released DoJ filings and saying "oh, see, if i had known THAT in September, well.,,"

Maybe it's more of an intraparty thing, the amicus brief... striking back at some establishment Republicans who have openly begun to put daylight between themselves and the MAGA crowd. There are GOP officials who have signed letters urging red state and county election officials not to muck around with certification of election results, stuff like that. Not all the Rs are total lawbreakers.

 

[GermanSuplex]

The whole argument is bizarre. It can't be lost on the GOP that our laws do not permit a president who's on his way out to take a bunch of stuff home at the last minute, hide it from the rightful owners, refuse to provide proof they were declassified, yet still claim possession of the documents. It just doesn't add up.

But we all know this. The question is really how many avenues do Trump and his lawyers have to delay justice? Can they appeal every decision on every issue? At what point does it go from a legal defense to gaming the system?

The Trump team should NOT be allowed to present an argument, then stonewall any attempts to verify the arguments they're making. True, its the government's job to prove their case, but how are they supposed to do that when they've been ordered to halt utilizing some of the very evidence they went looking for? Trump's team is arguing against their own alibi - which is a pretty poor one to begin with.

 

[Huntn]

The best simple explanation I’ve heard of why things are playing out the way they are is the system is setup to protect people like Trump. We just haven’t seen it played out so publicly and with one of the biggest public whiners ever born as the defendant.

The biggest irony, as most things in ass-backward Trump world, is he loves to whine about a rigged system when the rigged system is exactly what has benefitted him his entire life.

He PROJECTS, the System is rigged!! Translation: The System is not rigged in my favor!!

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The whole argument is bizarre. It can't be lost on the GOP that our laws do not permit a president who's on his way out to take a bunch of stuff home at the last minute, hide it from the rightful owners, refuse to provide proof they were declassified, yet still claim possession of the documents. It just doesn't add up.

But we all know this. The question is really how many avenues do Trump and his lawyers have to delay justice? Can they appeal every decision on every issue? At what point does it go from a legal defense to gaming the system?

The Trump team should NOT be allowed to present an argument, then stonewall any attempts to verify the arguments they're making. True, its the government's job to prove their case, but how are they supposed to do that when they've been ordered to halt utilizing some of the very evidence they went looking for? Trump's team is arguing against their own alibi - which is a pretty poor one to begin with.

If there was any real justice all these lies and stonewalling would just lead to more severe punishment to the point that nobody would attempt this type of shit. He's done more damage to the country than any foreign terrorist attack and has ushered in the exact destabilization our enemies long for. At minimum, the government should at least provide the illusion of security and stability for its citizens. Trump and Trumpism has done nothing but tell everybody we're fucked and that goes for everybody from his supporters to his haters.

 

[rdrr]

Trump team tells 11 Circuit Court that "at its core is a document storage dispute that has spiraled out of control."
Seems like a plausible argument...

Edit: In other news, things are going well on the Special Master arena.
BREAKING: Judge Dearie makes clear he is taking government’s position that the classified Mar-a-Lago documents are in fact classified. “What business is it of the court? … As far as I’m concerned that’s the end of it.”

 

[lizkat]

Trump team tells 11 Circuit Court that "at its core is a document storage dispute that has spiraled out of control."
Seems like a plausible argument...

Edit: In other news, things are going well on the Special Master arena.
BREAKING: Judge Dearie makes clear he is taking government’s position that the classified Mar-a-Lago documents are in fact classified. “What business is it of the court? … As far as I’m concerned that’s the end of it.”

Heh... Trump wanted a special master and got it.

Hope he wants an orange jump suit, that's the kind we mostly have in the USA...

 

[Citysnaps]

Heh... Trump wanted a special master and got it.

Hope he wants an orange jump suit, that's the kind we mostly have in the USA...

trump will be nicely accessorized wearing an orange jump suit!

 

[Renzatic]

Judge Dearie makes clear he is taking government’s position that the classified Mar-a-Lago documents are in fact classified. “What business is it of the court? … As far as I’m concerned that’s the end of it.”

I'm trying to find a link to this, but the latest I can find states that, so far, Dearie has only requested evidence that Trump sought to declassify the information. You got one I can check out?

 

[fooferdoggie]

trump will be nicely accessorized wearing an orange jump suit!

How would you know he is wearing it he would vanish.

 

[Nycturne]

I'm trying to find a link to this, but the latest I can find states that, so far, Dearie has only requested evidence that Trump sought to declassify the information. You got one I can check out?

Agreed. The closest I can find is that if Trump's lawyers don't offer up that evidence, he will side with the DOJ, as the burden is on Trump's side on that point, not the DOJ.

 

[lizkat]

I'm trying to find a link to this, but the latest I can find states that, so far, Dearie has only requested evidence that Trump sought to declassify the information. You got one I can check out?

Wall Street Journal ran a piece quoting Dearie in his first public hearing in Brooklyn yesterday.

Special Master in Trump Mar-a-Lago Case Holds First Public Hearing

Justice Department emphasizes sensitivity of documents seized at Mar-a-Lago, while Donald Trump’s defense lawyers attack the National Archives.

www.wsj.com

“I’m faced with a discrete number of judicial decisions that I will endeavor to make responsibly,” he said.

The Justice Department has identified a subset of records as classified, and Judge Dearie said he would treat those records carefully.

Department lawyers told the judge some of the classified documents were so sensitive that some members of its review team hadn’t yet received clearance to examine them.

Judge Dearie said that if the documents bear markings of being classified, that would be a strong reason not to provide them to Mr. Trump’s legal team.

“As far as I’m concerned, that’s the end of it,” he said.

James Trusty, a lawyer for Mr. Trump, pushed Judge Dearie for access to the documents marked classified, saying his legal team needed to see them to inform its potential arguments that Mr. Trump had declassified the material.

Mr. Trusty didn’t assert that the former president had actually done so, however, prompting Judge Dearie to say: “You can’t have your cake and eat it."

 

[GermanSuplex]

If there was any real justice all these lies and stonewalling would just lead to more severe punishment to the point that nobody would attempt this type of shit. He's done more damage to the country than any foreign terrorist attack and has ushered in the exact destabilization our enemies long for. At minimum, the government should at least provide the illusion of security and stability for its citizens. Trump and Trumpism has done nothing but tell everybody we're fucked and that goes for everybody from his supporters to his haters.

I was just thinking the other day, how it doesn’t seem like anything less than a mass terrorist attack would unite us. And yet, that seems highly unlikely at the moment, because foreign adversaries are watching the turmoil without needing to do anything. Russia doesn’t even need to meddle in our elections anymore, Trump has done far more to cast doubt than they could ever hope to.

And I can imagine that clips of his cult rally in Ohio this past weekend make perfect video footage of the destabilization of democracy in America.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I was just thinking the other day, how it doesn’t seem like anything less than a mass terrorist attack would unite us. And yet, that seems highly unlikely at the moment, because foreign adversaries are watching the turmoil without needing to do anything. Russia doesn’t even need to meddle in our elections anymore, Trump has done far more to cast doubt than they could ever hope to.

And I can imagine that clips of his cult rally in Ohio this past weekend make perfect video footage of the destabilization of democracy in America.

Exactly.

And all the other fascist wannabe losers in the world are referencing the same playbook. Everything is all foreigners' fault. They're actually a bunch of predictable dullards, but unfortunately this kind of lazy scapegoating appeals to way too many people.

 

[lizkat]

Trump has done far more to cast doubt than they could ever hope to.

The only reason for the Republicans to try to cast doubt on integrity of our electoral mechanisms is if they believe they can never win a free and fair election without cheating.

Pretty embarrassing. They could have just done what Romney was trying to get the Republicans to do party-wide in 2012 after Obama was re-elected: rethink the platform, reach out to more women and HIspanics. They were actually doing well with that and then along came faux populist Trump to try to burn the whole thing down and try on president-for-life robes.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

God knows who packed up his office for him, never mind who supposedly took care of papers down at Mar a Lago that reports say he didn't even treat properly when he was stil prez...

And while the papers were at Mar-A-Lardo, Trump wasn't even living there for large stretches of time, such as during the summer when he stays up north. So in addition to not storing them in a sufficiently secure location, he wasn't even personally looking after them.