Gentlemen, start your engines. (Subscription required.)

[Thomas Veil]

I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Toyota is going to make you pay to start your car with your key fob​

According to a report from The Drive, Toyota models 2018 or newer will need a subscription in order for the key fob to support remote start functionality.

I blame Adobe.

Toyota is going to make you pay to start your car with your key fob

Cars newer than 2018 only come with a free trial of the feature.

www.theverge.com

 

[Eric]

You have to wonder if they're all going this way, I've been looking at Teslas and they seem to have a subscription model for their autopilot system, either $10,000 for the duration of your ownership or $199 a month. Crazy, but I'll still probably add it when I'm ready to buy.

 

[SuperMatt]

You have to wonder if they're all going this way, I've been looking at Teslas and they seem to have a subscription model for their autopilot system, either $10,000 for the duration of your ownership or $199 a month. Crazy, but I'll still probably add it when I'm ready to buy.

What if the subscription runs out while it’s in the middle of driving you somewhere…?

 

[Eric]

What if the subscription runs out while it’s in the middle of driving you somewhere…?

Hoping they at least have a warning as I'm cruising down the highway.

 

[Yoused]

Hoping they at least have a warning as I'm cruising down the highway.

Given how poorly autopilot has performed (in a small handful of spectacular instances), I would sure not count on a warning. One guy in Montana had it going way too fast on a gravel road, and it kept giving him warnings (of little value, as the driver did not speak English) but did not slow down of its own accord even though it knew it was going too fast. That is some hellaciously bad edge-case design.

 

[DT]

BMW started this a while back for CarPlay, then pretty quickly reversed itself.

The Toyota situation is especially shitty, because it's a regular RF type fob, it doesn't need the remote/cloud based service to function, it uses that as some kind of additional network call (I believe it's some kind of authentication), and that service is bundled up into a subscription package.

Like our previous DD/RT or current Wrangler, it had/has remote services through uConnect, it's a pay service (free for the first year), but if you let it lapse, you only lose the smartphone connectivity, the RF based fob continues to operate as expected.

I kind of get the subscription model for some things, clearly something like XM, or even remote uConnect, because they have underlying services (and related costs), but for technology that's inherent to the hardware, that can operate on its own, that should be a one time fee. Like Tesla for the 3/Y LR models has a performanced boost option, you buy it, the car updates, and it's done, it never goes away (it's not even tied to your account, you sell the car, the new owner has it too).

 

[DT]

You have to wonder if they're all going this way, I've been looking at Teslas and they seem to have a subscription model for their autopilot system, either $10,000 for the duration of your ownership or $199 a month. Crazy, but I'll still probably add it when I'm ready to buy.

The monthly subscription seems like a much better option, especially since you can turn it on/off like a streaming service, so if you wanted it for like a road trip one month, you could buy it, use it, cancel the service.

FWIW, I'm all in on Tesla, but I have no desire for FSD. I've worked in the AR/VR/CV space, I get a lot of what they're doing, how they're doing it, the complexities (i.e., I'm not spooked about the tech). I'm just a bit too much of a driver, though I do use Autopilot on occasion, on the highway, just to have a little "attention relief', for longer-ish trips it's more like a very fancy ACC, where it's just assisting vs. driving autonomously.

 

[Herdfan]

Not 100% sure what they are calling "remote" start. On my Ford truck I can start it if I am within distance of the key fob or I can use the Ford Connect app (which I use to start it quite often now that the weather is turning colder) to start it from almost anywhere.

One is a feature that has been on Ford's for years, maybe even a decade or longer. The app based one is fairly new. I can see them charging for using the app to start it, but not the key fob.

 

[DT]

Yeah, I was confused by the language too, at first I thought it might be some kind of cellular based fob, like a "smart remote" type thing, but no, it's just a regular ol' key fob like all/most cars use.

 

[Edd]

I have a 2021 RAV4 Hybrid, and am in the middle of the free year trial. The app works well enough for remote start. The key fob will remote start the old-fashioned way but the range is crazy short, way less than normal.

If I want to keep up with remote start for the app, I’ll have to pay $8/month. Comes with other features like notifications if the sunroof or doors are left unlocked, remote unlock (which comes in handy somehow). Fun fact, this $36K car needs the app to check see tire pressure on individual tires, instead of displaying it on the dash.

The article seems to be saying that the normal key fob remote start will quit working along with the app if you don’t pay up after the free trial. The Toyota nerd forum I visit has members disputing this is the case. Their fobs still work fine for remote start.

 

[SuperMatt]

I have a 2016 VW and it had a subscription service you could pay for called “car-net.” It was free for the first year or two and allowed you to start/stop charging of the car with your phone and even turn on the heat while the car was still plugged in to get it warm before you start driving and save battery.

I never renewed after the free time expired… not worth $200 a year.

I recently got an email from VW saying that the service is shutting down because it relied on 3G and ATT is shutting down their 3G network. Makes you think twice about any similar service. Phones get changed often enough that relying on an older cell service isn’t a worry. Cars, on the other hand…

 

[Ulenspiegel]

If you want to get into your home pay a subscription fee to the door-lock company.

This world is going insane...

 

[quagmire]

You have to wonder if they're all going this way, I've been looking at Teslas and they seem to have a subscription model for their autopilot system, either $10,000 for the duration of your ownership or $199 a month. Crazy, but I'll still probably add it when I'm ready to buy.

Autopilot is free and comes with the car. What is paid is "full self driving" which is not anywhere close to being that and not transferable if you buy a new Tesla. The only thing I want in FSD is auto lane change, but not shelling out $10K for that.

Given how poorly autopilot has performed (in a small handful of spectacular instances), I would sure not count on a warning. One guy in Montana had it going way too fast on a gravel road, and it kept giving him warnings (of little value, as the driver did not speak English) but did not slow down of its own accord even though it knew it was going too fast. That is some hellaciously bad edge-case design.

Autopilot and even full self driving is meant for highways only right now. The current FSD Beta that people are able to sign up to get is testing driving in city streets. Not sure if it will ever work on those back roads that are gravel, etc since it would be hard to train the system for it.

The blame for the misuse of the systems is on both Tesla and the user. Tesla for giving misleading names to the features and Musk running his mouth on Twitter. Users because they don't read the manual and can be just idiots( look at people who want defeat devices for the nag and people sitting in the backseat, etc).

 

[Eric]

Autopilot is free and comes with the car. What is paid is "full self driving" which is not anywhere close to being that and not transferable if you buy a new Tesla. The only thing I want in FSD is auto lane change, but not shelling out $10K for that.



Autopilot and even full self driving is meant for highways only right now. The current FSD Beta that people are able to sign up to get is testing driving in city streets. Not sure if it will ever work on those back roads that are gravel, etc since it would be hard to train the system for it.

The blame for the misuse of the systems is on both Tesla and the user. Tesla for giving misleading names to the features and Musk running his mouth on Twitter. Users because they don't read the manual and can be just idiots( look at people who want defeat devices for the nag and people sitting in the backseat, etc).

Ahh, okay thanks for the clarification.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

You have to wonder if they're all going this way, I've been looking at Teslas and they seem to have a subscription model for their autopilot system, either $10,000 for the duration of your ownership or $199 a month. Crazy, but I'll still probably add it when I'm ready to buy.

Yeah, I heard Telsa's advertising price is deceitful. The price of the car sounds reasonable but the cost of software upgrades is exorbitant. But since the market is so enamored with Telsa that rarely gets mentioned.

 

[quagmire]

Yeah, I heard Telsa's advertising price is deceitful. The price of the car sounds reasonable but the cost of software upgrades is exorbitant. But since the market is so enamored with Telsa that rarely gets mentioned.

Mixing up two different complaints. Tesla can be deceitful in the cars price in that the configurator on the website defaults to the, " Include potential gas savings" which lowers the price by around $4,000 or so to what they estimate on how much money you will save in gas over the 5 year loan. Of course that isn't the real MSRP of the car or the true monthly payments you will be paying.

And yes $10,000 for FSD is a ripoff in its current state and terms. Now as long as you still have the car, if Tesla decides FSD needs a new computer or camera upgrades, etc that is all free upgrade for the owner. But as stated above, it's not transferable. So if you buy a new Tesla in 3 years and FSD isn't completed by then, well too bad. That will be another $10,000( or whatever amount it costs in 3 years).

No one needs FSD and it is full of gimmicks right now. It has 1 or 2 features that are desirable to me, but no way am I spending $10K for it.

 

[DT]

If you want to get into your home pay a subscription fee to the door-lock company.

This world is going insane...

Price on this forum is now $1.00 USD / per post, please send payment to EricsHookerAndBlowFund@icloud.com

 

[Runs For Fun]

I have a 2021 RAV4 Hybrid, and am in the middle of the free year trial. The app works well enough for remote start. The key fob will remote start the old-fashioned way but the range is crazy short, way less than normal.

If I want to keep up with remote start for the app, I’ll have to pay $8/month. Comes with other features like notifications if the sunroof or doors are left unlocked, remote unlock (which comes in handy somehow). Fun fact, this $36K car needs the app to check see tire pressure on individual tires, instead of displaying it on the dash.

The article seems to be saying that the normal key fob remote start will quit working along with the app if you don’t pay up after the free trial. The Toyota nerd forum I visit has members disputing this is the case. Their fobs still work fine for remote start.

Yeah this is how I understood it that people were mad that the short range key fob remote start would also be locked behind a subscription. My Kia Optima has a remote start feature through their app that is a subscription which I can understand as it's basically a cellular connection to the car that can be controlled from anywhere. I'm curious now though if people are disputing the claim about the key fob.

 

[Eric]

Price on this forum is now $1.00 USD / per post, please send payment to EricsHookerAndBlowFund@icloud.com

Those things aren't going to pay for themselves you know.

 

[DT]

Right, per @quagmire only the "potential gas savings" price is the default displayed, but the real price is indicated from the first step of the buying process, and you can toggle that right online while researching. I was never once confused over the actual purchase price - FSD, seperate price, clearly indicated at purchase.

Speaking of purchasing: I LOVED the totally person-free buying process, a couple of clicks online, some follow up with a few docs uploaded, that's it. I didn't speak to a person until we showed up for the delivery.

Anyway, all other software updates are all free, which is amazing. Model 3s, just through software in the last couple of years: accelerate faster, have better range, all sorts of additional media features (Hulu, D+, Tidal), better interior heating/cooling, and things like adding remote real-time viewing of the cameras.