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quagmire said:
Mixing up two different complaints. Tesla can be deceitful in the cars price in that the configurator on the website defaults to the, " Include potential gas savings" which lowers the price by around $4,000 or so to what they estimate on how much money you will save in gas over the 5 year loan. Of course that isn't the real MSRP of the car or the true monthly payments you will be paying.

And yes $10,000 for FSD is a ripoff in its current state and terms. Now as long as you still have the car, if Tesla decides FSD needs a new computer or camera upgrades, etc that is all free upgrade for the owner. But as stated above, it's not transferable. So if you buy a new Tesla in 3 years and FSD isn't completed by then, well too bad. That will be another $10,000( or whatever amount it costs in 3 years).

No one needs FSD and it is full of gimmicks right now. It has 1 or 2 features that are desirable to me, but no way am I spending $10K for it.
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This may be a consumerism problem, but I don’t think most people who buy a Tesla do it to get a bare minimum EV. Meanwhile you could get a competitor EV from a manufacturer that doesn’t practice in these exorbitant software fees to get the gimmicky features but you already bought a Tesla. So what’s your option other than just forking over more money to Tesla.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
This may be a consumerism problem, but I don’t think most people who buy a Tesla do it to get a bare minimum EV. Meanwhile you could get a competitor EV from a manufacturer that doesn’t practice in these exorbitant software fees to get the gimmicky features but you already bought a Tesla. So what’s your option other than just forking over more money to Tesla.
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I'm not sure I'm following, there's one major, very costly after purchase upgrade, FSD, otherwise the car is loaded with tech, convenience, features, performance - standard. I don't think FSD even needs to be part of the conversation when talking about Tesla vs. other options for most of the mid-market.

I purchased a Tesla, I paid them one price, I don't intend to pay anything additional and I love the car as it sits as it's not missing any features, there's literally nothing else to buy (and even without FSD, Autopilot is reasonably sophisticated).

Oh, I reread your post, and I think there's again, some conflation of two different ideas - it's really this:

1) Tesla buyers aren't buying a bare minimum / stripped EV, right, because everything other than FSD comes standard
2) Buyers could buy opt for something less expensive, but that has nothing to do with Tesla "exorbitant software fees", as that's not the reality of the situation
 
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DT said:
I'm not sure I'm following, there's one major, very costly after purchase upgrade, FSD, otherwise the car is loaded with tech, convenience, features, performance - standard. I don't think FSD even needs to be part of the conversation when talking about Tesla vs. other options for most of the mid-market.

I purchased a Tesla, I paid them one price, I don't intend to pay anything additional and I love the car as it sits as it's not missing any features, there's literally nothing else to buy (and even without FSD, Autopilot is reasonably sophisticated).
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What is FSD?
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
This may be a consumerism problem, but I don’t think most people who buy a Tesla do it to get a bare minimum EV. Meanwhile you could get a competitor EV from a manufacturer that doesn’t practice in these exorbitant software fees to get the gimmicky features but you already bought a Tesla. So what’s your option other than just forking over more money to Tesla.
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DT said:
I'm not sure I'm following, there's one major, very costly after purchase upgrade, FSD, otherwise the car is loaded with tech, convenience, features, performance - standard. I don't think FSD even needs to be part of the conversation when talking about Tesla vs. other options for most of the mid-market.

I purchased a Tesla, I paid them one price, I don't intend to pay anything additional and I love the car as it sits as it's not missing any features, there's literally nothing else to buy (and even without FSD, Autopilot is reasonably sophisticated).
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Yeah not sure if I am following.

Tesla's are already fairly nicely equipped. You just decide if you want the regular 3, the long range, or performance. Then all you can do is select paint, interior color, wheels( performance model only come with the 20" wheeks) and if you want to fork the $10K over for full self driving. That's it. Navigation comes with the car and is updated for free. Not paying the manufacture $200 a year for updates, etc.

The only real decision you will need to make post-purchase is if you want to do the $10 a month for premium connectivity when the trial runs out.

As DT mentioned, any updates that are not FSD related are free.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
What is FSD?
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See above, that's Full Self Driving, that's the super duper, fully autonomous navigation system, i.e., you put in an address and take a nap. It's still very much under development, it's such a pie-in-the-sky, even in terms of legal concerns, without that, the car still has everything else including a very powerful "auto cruise control" (that holds lanes, brakes, etc.)
 
DT said:
See above, that's Full Self Driving, that's the super duper, fully autonomous navigation system, i.e., you put in an address and take a nap. It's still very much under development, it's such a pie-in-the-sky, even in terms of legal concerns, without that, the car still has everything else including a very powerful "auto cruise control" (that holds lanes, brakes, etc.)
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Got it. I thought it was for any kind of major upgrade, like a computer or phone OS....like if Apple charged $100 for an iPhone but $1,000 for every OS upgrade.

10k sounds a little steep for FSD, but maybe it's some perverse way to reduce the amount of people killing themselves abusing what sounds like beta software. It's like a large buy-in fee to play car russian roulette.
 
@DT:

There is a promotion, pay in advance, get a free year subscription and a T-shirt:


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Chew Toy McCoy said:
Got it. I thought it was for any kind of major upgrade, like a computer or phone OS....like if Apple charged $100 for an iPhone but $1,000 for every OS upgrade.

10k sounds a little steep for FSD, but maybe it's some perverse way to reduce the amount of people killing themselves abusing what sounds like beta software. It's like a large buy-in fee to play car russian roulette.
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Yeah, it's really just like Apple, updates, both incremental and major are all no cost (like going from 10.14.5 to 10.14.6 or upgrading Mojave >> Catalina >> Big Sur).

The thing that's sort of slick about Tesla, is there's so much they can do with just software updates, since all the systems are computer controlled (and so many discrete functional areas of the car have programmable microcontrollers - it's really like a computer). They had a small update that changed the logic in the HVAC system, with how it interprets temp (using the onboard temp sensor data) and how it adjusts the airflow/air temp/vents. We got ours after this, but there was an update a year or so ago, and the car got faster, I mean, you literally downloaded a performance update.

Not that this is limited to Tesla at this point, the new Lucid platform is insanely sophisticated, and quite a few of the EV_from_the_ground_up platforms are doing some of the same - though, it's kind of funny that some of this sort of programmable car systems could've been done with ICE platforms, and it was to a degree, but the EV really accelerated this sort of design (I'd say Tesla was a notable contributor to manufacturers rethinking transportation).
 
Runs For Fun said:
Yeah this is how I understood it that people were mad that the short range key fob remote start would also be locked behind a subscription. My Kia Optima has a remote start feature through their app that is a subscription which I can understand as it's basically a cellular connection to the car that can be controlled from anywhere. I'm curious now though if people are disputing the claim about the key fob.
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The thing is, if the fob had normal range, I wouldn’t even consider paying for the app. My work and home situations for parking need proper range so feeling kinda fucked by Toyota. Our Subaru remote start destroys this thing.
 
Edd said:
The thing is, if the fob had normal range, I wouldn’t even consider paying for the app. My work and home situations for parking need proper range so feeling kinda fucked by Toyota. Our Subaru remote start destroys this thing.
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Yeah, like our Jeep fob works from where I'm sitting, that's got to be a good 50-60 feet away, through multiple walls. No idea what a clear LOS would allow for, but it's decently far. I'd assume a lot of folks want to be able to start and warm/cool their car at least from their house/office to their car in the driveway/parking lot.
 
Everything is going subscription based. It's ridiculous.

I have a 2019 Toyota Tacoma, but I do not have remote start installed on it. Never felt the need for it.
 
JagRunner said:
Mine is white, but doesn't look like that lol
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Is it really? Hahaha, I had no idea, that's just the one posted from the article (that's a prototype EV model).
 
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