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[DT]

@Huntn Saw your post on MR, thought I'd start it up here (I'm not really keen on having any kind of conversation with folks over there, especially if/when fuckwit-no-nothings like RP chime in ...

 

[Huntn]

Here ya go:
I want to know, do you notice a huge difference in picture quality between BluRay and 4K on your 4k TV? Granted I only have 1 or 2, 4k disks. I have a 65” Visio TV with good specs and honestly so far, it’s been a let down as far as not noticing anything truly significant. I have streamed some 4k nature content (I think) which seems pretty nice. I wonder if this could be the quality of the 4k disk?

 

[Pumbaa]

I typically check the reviews before bothering with 4K over regular BluRay. Did the same when going from DVD to BluRay. Really enjoy this site separating video and audio ratings from the overall movie rating. Maybe it is elitist bullshit, maybe it is serious craftsmanship, I don’t know. But I like it and only bother with the new format if the quality is supposedly great or if the price is the same as or lower than the “inferior” format’s.

Ultra HD Reviews | High Def Digest

'The latest news on all things 4k Ultra HD, Blu-ray and Gear'

ultrahd.highdefdigest.com

What do they say about your 4K discs?

How far away from your 65“ TV are you?

 

[DT]

Here's the thing, with most typical sized TVs, and most common viewing distances, you're going to notice the HDR (High Dynamic Range) encoding in a 4K source more than you'll notice the HD (1920x1080) vs. 4K (3840x2160).

I don't know what model Vizio you have, I think you have (IIRC) a P-series? There's an older P, then they did a couple of newer P Quantum, and their top-of-the-line is the P Quantum X, which has mind blowing HDR (that really pops because of the insane brightness levels), and supports, Dolby Vision, HD10 and the newest HD10+ spec (which is meant to compete with DV).

What specific model Vizio do you have? FWIW, when I was talking about those sets in that thread that MaDummy started, I wound up actually going with one (the newest P Quantum X, P65QX-H1), I have a whole spew about why I went that direction vs. Sony/LG and why I went with LCD over OLED.

Anyway, HDR > Resolution in terms of visual impact

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I read several years back that 4k, in general, is barely perceivable by the human eye.

Given that, anything above that is just an excuse to gouge you for more money.

 

[Edd]

I have a 55” Sony with early 4K, no HDR. I preferred my Apple TV 4 (1080p) over my 4K Roku hooked to the same tv with same settings. I tried adjusting settings to make the Roku better but couldn’t do it. I want to replace the TV with an HDR set but the picture is pretty damn good, hard to justify.

 

[DT]

I read several years back that 4k, in general, is barely perceivable by the human eye.

Given that, anything above that is just an excuse to gouge you for more money.

Yep, see my post above (TL;DR = HDR has more impact than the resolution). Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of 8K talk, but unless something is done to radically change the color space/depth, etc., it won't look better for 99.9% of the use cases (assuming you actually had 8K native content).

I considered a TCL set, one of their new MiniLED products, but too many CS issues, the so called "panel lottery" (apparently they allow a huge number of poorly tuned/funky panels to make it through QA ... meaning multiple returns for some people) - but anyway, that's an interesting tech that improves the existing 4K/HDR vs. trying to introduce new resolutions/formats.

I think Mini, and certainly Micro LED will replace OLED, as they have all of the advantage of OLED without any of the downsides.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Yep, see my post above (TL;DR = HDR has more impact than the resolution). Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of 8K talk, but unless something is done to radically change the color space/depth, etc., it won't look better for 99.9% of the use cases (assuming you actually had 8K native content).

I considered a TCL set, one of their new MiniLED products, but too many CS issues, the so called "panel lottery" (apparently they allow a huge number of poorly tuned/funky panels to make it through QA ... meaning multiple returns for some people) - but anyway, that's an interesting tech that improves the existing 4K/HDR vs. trying to introduce new resolutions/formats.

I think Mini, and certainly Micro LED will replace OLED, as they have all of the advantage of OLED without any of the downsides.

I'm sure there will be a lot of trying to credit 4k+ TVs for that being the reason it looks better, but as you said there are other variables that are the real reason it probably looks better. IMO if you buy a new TV that's 5 years newer than your current TV than it's just going to look better period, even if you aren't big on specs knowledge.

I have kind of a unique upgrade problem. I have a 3D TV and 3D Blu-ray player. I don't watch a ton of 3D content but still think it's cool when I do. For whatever reason that was deemed a fad that only lasted a couple years. So now good luck finding a new or bigger TV with 3D capabilities. At best they'll throw it in a TV that is already indefensibly expensive. They're still releasing new movie 3D blu-rays. So I'm not really sure why it's at the same time a technology that seems to be blown off by TV manufactures. Honestly I feel it should be just as standard issue as 4k at this point.

 

[User.45]

Yep, see my post above (TL;DR = HDR has more impact than the resolution). Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of 8K talk, but unless something is done to radically change the color space/depth, etc., it won't look better for 99.9% of the use cases (assuming you actually had 8K native content).

I considered a TCL set, one of their new MiniLED products, but too many CS issues, the so called "panel lottery" (apparently they allow a huge number of poorly tuned/funky panels to make it through QA ... meaning multiple returns for some people) - but anyway, that's an interesting tech that improves the existing 4K/HDR vs. trying to introduce new resolutions/formats.

I think Mini, and certainly Micro LED will replace OLED, as they have all of the advantage of OLED without any of the downsides.

It will depend on your screen diameter and viewing distance. If you watch a 55" from 10' you would hardly see a difference between 4K and 1080p and with upscaling you shouldn't see any. I think if you sit closer it will depend on the quality of upscaling. If your content is native 4K your gain is probably some extra sharpness which is often reduced for a cinematic effect anyway.

Color reproduction, contrast and viewing angles contribute a lot more to the immersion (i.e. mostly all that you described with HDR).

I'm thinking about buying an OLED like LG CX 55" which has a latency of <2sec and does native 120Hz for my gaming.

 

[Thomas Veil]

I'm sure there will be a lot of trying to credit 4k+ TVs for that being the reason it looks better, but as you said there are other variables that are the real reason it probably looks better. IMO if you buy a new TV that's 5 years newer than your current TV than it's just going to look better period, even if you aren't big on specs knowledge.

I have kind of a unique upgrade problem. I have a 3D TV and 3D Blu-ray player. I don't watch a ton of 3D content but still think it's cool when I do. For whatever reason that was deemed a fad that only lasted a couple years. So now good luck finding a new or bigger TV with 3D capabilities. At best they'll throw it in a TV that is already indefensibly expensive. They're still releasing new movie 3D blu-rays. So I'm not really sure why it's at the same time a technology that seems to be blown off by TV manufactures. Honestly I feel it should be just as standard issue as 4k at this point.

I know what you mean. I thought about 3D when I bought a few Blu-Rays that came with 3D discs, but ran into the same problem as you: manufacturers don't seem interested in it.

How is it at home, really? I saw "Suicide Squad" in 3D in a theater, and if you know the end credits sequence, it's an orgy of color and three dimensional weaponry. In the theater it was impressive as hell.

 

[User.45]

Yep, see my post above (TL;DR = HDR has more impact than the resolution). Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of 8K talk, but unless something is done to radically change the color space/depth, etc., it won't look better for 99.9% of the use cases (assuming you actually had 8K native content).

I considered a TCL set, one of their new MiniLED products, but too many CS issues, the so called "panel lottery" (apparently they allow a huge number of poorly tuned/funky panels to make it through QA ... meaning multiple returns for some people) - but anyway, that's an interesting tech that improves the existing 4K/HDR vs. trying to introduce new resolutions/formats.

I think Mini, and certainly Micro LED will replace OLED, as they have all of the advantage of OLED without any of the downsides.

Pulled the trigger on the LG CX 55 OLED. I don't even know how I lived w/o OLED, lol. I've never seen this many shades of blue and green, but the most striking is when the screen ratio of the material differs from that of the TV and you have the dark strip above and below the screen...that always bothered me. Now with OLED that's really black and you don't notice the screen ratio differences anymore, and that makes material so much more enjoyable. And the gaming performance? LOL, since I replaced the old screen, I've played 5 rounds of BO4 League and I ended up top of my team in all (I'm usually second 2+/-1. I probably have now half the latency most other players have...

 

[Thomas Veil]

If only they’d come down in price...

 

[DT]

My most recent TV purchase was LCD again, by design, vs. OLED, I'm just not a good candidate for an OLED in the main TV area, it's WAY too bright, a long, deep room with an entire wall of windows/glass doors (to the deck), and sort of secondary, I don't want to be "TV Police" in that room (with burn in concern, and yes, I know about screensavers / jitter modes, I [still] own a Plasma, I get it, it's still a legitimate concern).

Some of the current top model LCD sets produce incredibly black blacks, but have much better SDR/HDR brightness (2000+ nits vs. sub 300 nits), excellent contrast with local dimming (15K:1). OLED is also terrific for off angle viewing vs. modern VA panels if that's a consideration for your installation location. LG has very good calibration OOTB, other manufactures you pretty much have to calibrate (though the LG benefits a noticeable amount too).

@Thomas Veil If you keep an eye, especially through Costco/Sams, the LG CX, Sony A8, and the Vizio OLED (that uses an LG panel), but down into the $1200-1400 range for a 55" (though for my main TV, 65" is now my minimum, so if you're the same, that more into the upper $1800-2000+ even during a good sale).

FYI, the other nice thing about Costco/Sams: they have special manufacturer deals, so they offer a longer manufacturer's warranty, most products are 3 to 5 years (vs. the typical 1 year from other retailers, or even direct).

 

[User.45]

If only they’d come down in price...

yup... I've explicitly set my psychological threshold to 800 bucks on a TV. LGs went down to $1300-1500 recently, and I told my wife, we might as well just spend our 2020 travel budget on this, given how miserable it's all been.

 

[DT]

yup... I've explicitly set my psychological threshold to 800 bucks on a TV. LGs went down to $1300-1500 recently, and I told my wife, we might as well just spend our 2020 travel budget on this, given how miserable it's all been.

Oh yeah, same here, it's such a disposable piece of equipment any longer, my "mental budget" is always under $1500, and more like under $1200. I also have some, umm, I guess genetic frugality, hahaha, people I know wonder why I don't buy X/Y/Z (especially when it comes to cars), I'm just not programmed like that Well, not any longer, in my 20s, I bought $3000 amps, now I second guess a new $20 tube for my desk headphone amp ...

 

[User.45]

My most recent TV purchase was LCD again, by design, vs. OLED, I'm just not a good candidate for an OLED in the main TV area, it's WAY too bright, a long, deep room with an entire wall of windows/glass doors (to the deck), and sort of secondary, I don't want to be "TV Police" in that room (with burn in concern, and yes, I know about screensavers / jitter modes, I [still] own a Plasma, I get it, it's still a legitimate concern).

Some of the current top model LCD sets produce incredibly black blacks, but have much better SDR/HDR brightness (2000+ nits vs. sub 300 nits), excellent contrast with local dimming (15K:1). OLED is also terrific for off angle viewing vs. modern VA panels if that's a consideration for your installation location. LG has very good calibration OOTB, other manufactures you pretty much have to calibrate (though the LG benefits a noticeable amount too).

@Thomas Veil If you keep an eye, especially through Costco/Sams, the LG CX, Sony A8, and the Vizio OLED (that uses an LG panel), but down into the $1200-1400 range for a 55" (though for my main TV, 65" is now my minimum, so if you're the same, that more into the upper $1800-2000+ even during a good sale).

FYI, the other nice thing about Costco/Sams: they have special manufacturer deals, so they offer a longer manufacturer's warranty, most products are 3 to 5 years (vs. the typical 1 year from other retailers, or even direct).

Yup, burn in was a concern, but what I read is that it doesn't really happen at low brightness, and we don't really go above 50%...I actually get headaches if it's higher. You're right though, in our previous high-rise floor-to-ceiling window condo this TV would probably be too dim.

I think if you move a lot and consistently have a dark room, a projector is the safest bet, because you won't break it between moves. It's colors and viewing angles are unbeatable and on a dark night the screen size can hit 80-100". I still have fond memories playin Mass Effect 3 @80".

 

[DT]

Yup, burn in was a concern, but what I read is that it doesn't really happen at low brightness, and we don't really go above 50%...I actually get headaches if it's higher. You're right though, in our previous high-rise floor-to-ceiling window condo this TV would probably be too dim.

I think if you move a lot and consistently have a dark room, a projector is the safest bet, because you won't break it between moves. It's colors and viewing angles are unbeatable and on a dark night the screen size can hit 80-100". I still have fond memories playin Mass Effect 3 @80".

Did you research any of the current projectors? I haven't looked at them in some time, though I know there's this new-er-ish "short throw", where you can mount it super close to the projection target. At one point I was seriously considering one for the bedroom, it's dark as needed, it's most only watched at night, with a retractable screen it could sort of "disappear" when not in use.

 

[User.45]

Did you research any of the current projectors? I haven't looked at them in some time, though I know there's this new-er-ish "short throw", where you can mount it super close to the projection target. At one point I was seriously considering one for the bedroom, it's dark as needed, it's most only watched at night, with a retractable screen it could sort of "disappear" when not in use.

Yes, and there are some laser projectors too these days, plus 4K came down to the below $1500 range too. That said I recommend against keeping a TV or projector in the bedroom because it will mess up your sleep. This is actually the reason I don't use a projector anymore. Other than the bedrooms, there isn't a good enough dark room in the house.

 

[DT]

That said I recommend against keeping a TV or projector in the bedroom because it will mess up your sleep.

Oh, we've have had a TV in the bedroom for __decades__ (It's currently a 55" Sony LCD). We watch some TV at night, sometimes run a "dark" audio relaxer (laid back ambient music, natural rain/storm sounds), we use it as another exercise/workout/yoga location (it's a pretty big room).

Plus, how else are we supposed to watch porn?

 

[User.45]

My most recent TV purchase was LCD again, by design, vs. OLED, I'm just not a good candidate for an OLED in the main TV area, it's WAY too bright, a long, deep room with an entire wall of windows/glass doors (to the deck), and sort of secondary, I don't want to be "TV Police" in that room (with burn in concern, and yes, I know about screensavers / jitter modes, I [still] own a Plasma, I get it, it's still a legitimate concern).

Some of the current top model LCD sets produce incredibly black blacks, but have much better SDR/HDR brightness (2000+ nits vs. sub 300 nits), excellent contrast with local dimming (15K:1). OLED is also terrific for off angle viewing vs. modern VA panels if that's a consideration for your installation location. LG has very good calibration OOTB, other manufactures you pretty much have to calibrate (though the LG benefits a noticeable amount too).

@Thomas Veil If you keep an eye, especially through Costco/Sams, the LG CX, Sony A8, and the Vizio OLED (that uses an LG panel), but down into the $1200-1400 range for a 55" (though for my main TV, 65" is now my minimum, so if you're the same, that more into the upper $1800-2000+ even during a good sale).

FYI, the other nice thing about Costco/Sams: they have special manufacturer deals, so they offer a longer manufacturer's warranty, most products are 3 to 5 years (vs. the typical 1 year from other retailers, or even direct).

BTW, HomeKit fixes this. the TV shows up in iPhone remote AND the Home app. I can turn it off from anywhere.

Oh, we've have had a TV in the bedroom for __decades__ (It's currently a 55" Sony LCD). We watch some TV at night, sometimes run a "dark" audio relaxer (laid back ambient music, natural rain/storm sounds), we use it as another exercise/workout/yoga location (it's a pretty big room).

Plus, how else are we supposed to watch porn?

For me, bedroom = darkest room in the house.